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Brock
07-11-2009, 09:23 AM
Tennessee Highway Patrol (THP) troopers are punished for failing to issue a specific number of speeding tickets in at least one part of the state. Attorney Fletcher Long provided WTVF-TV with a copy of a memo THP Sergeant Clifford M. Babits posted on the wall of the Troop C station in Robertson County. ”I can no longer justify fives on evaluations for troopers not producing activity,” Babits wrote. “I require three things. 1. Answer the radio, 2. Work your crashes, and 3. WRITE TICKETS. I take some of the blame for not properly motivating ya’ll in the area of activity. Overall activity last year (2008) was well below the district average… Because activity plays such a high part of an everyday road trooper’s requirement, it is going to weigh heavy on yearly evaluation scores.”

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/tennessee-highway-patrol-ticket-quota-uncovered/

The memo:

http://www.thenewspaper.com/rlc/docs/2009/tn-thpquota.pdf

Skip Towne
07-11-2009, 09:26 AM
Crazy Coffee said quotas are against federal law.

Bwana
07-11-2009, 09:30 AM
Boss Hogg must need a new pair of boots.

Scorp
07-11-2009, 09:32 AM
Crazy Coffee said quotas are against federal law.

So is beating minorities silly with billy clubs, but we all know what good fun that is. :D

Phobia
07-11-2009, 09:57 AM
Crazy Coffee said quotas are against federal law.

That's not a quota. They're working with averages. They want their numbers to be the same as other districts. It's an easy loophole past "quota".

Brock
07-11-2009, 09:58 AM
That's not a quota. They're working with averages. They want their numbers to be the same as other districts. It's an easy loophole past "quota".

They are being performance-rated based on the number of tickets they write. They are given a number to meet. It's a quota.

Buehler445
07-11-2009, 10:06 AM
Figured as much. Some motherfucking worthless ass POS cop in motherfucking Julesburg Colorado picked me up for going 69 in a 65, for which I had my cruise control set. Cited some motherfucking bullfuckingshit about some visual test and it being +/-5 MPH and gave me a horsefucking ticket for 77 MPH. Gave me some dumbfuck line about having a certified mechanic look at my speedometer. Then he later changed his story to it being a radar gun.

The motherfucker also would not follow me and notify me when I reached 65 MPH. I asked him if it was in the best interest of public safety to allow me to drive around not knowing how fast I was going, and he said it was against policy.

I want to burn that fucking police station to the motherfucking ground.

KCUnited
07-11-2009, 10:06 AM
"troopers not producing activity" = sprinkle some crack on em after you shoot em.

Buehler445
07-11-2009, 10:09 AM
Figured as much. Some motherfucking worthless ass POS cop in motherfucking Julesburg Colorado picked me up for going 69 in a 65, for which I had my cruise control set. Cited some motherfucking bullfuckingshit about some visual test and it being +/-5 MPH and gave me a horsefucking ticket for 77 MPH. Gave me some dumbfuck line about having a certified mechanic look at my speedometer. Then he later changed his story to it being a radar gun.

The motherfucker also would not follow me and notify me when I reached 65 MPH. I asked him if it was in the best interest of public safety to allow me to drive around not knowing how fast I was going, and he said it was against policy.

I want to burn that fucking police station to the motherfucking ground.

Oh, and FWIW, it was the last day of Memorial weekend, so it is consistent with the quota bit.

Skip Towne
07-11-2009, 10:13 AM
Oh, and FWIW, it was the last day of Memorial weekend, so it is consistent with the quota bit.

How much was the ticket?

Buehler445
07-11-2009, 10:13 AM
How much was the ticket?

$162

Baconeater
07-11-2009, 10:14 AM
Not surprising really, our entire judicial system is more of a tool for generating revenue than anything else.

wild1
07-11-2009, 10:15 AM
I think important to understand this clearly is the fact that almost everyone is speeding everywhere.

It's not that they have to write tickets for 2mph over the limit in order to meet their quota. They just have to sit somewhere, turn the radar on, and wait 5 minutes. If you sit in one place people will speed past all day long at 10, 15mph over the limit or more. If no tickets are being written, as a manager he can only assume they are not running radar. He's probably asking himself what his people are doing with their time if they are so far below average.

Baconeater
07-11-2009, 10:15 AM
Figured as much. Some mother****ing worthless ass POS cop in mother****ing Julesburg Colorado picked me up for going 69 in a 65, for which I had my cruise control set. Cited some mother****ing bull****ingshit about some visual test and it being +/-5 MPH and gave me a horse****ing ticket for 77 MPH. Gave me some dumb**** line about having a certified mechanic look at my speedometer. Then he later changed his story to it being a radar gun.

The mother****er also would not follow me and notify me when I reached 65 MPH. I asked him if it was in the best interest of public safety to allow me to drive around not knowing how fast I was going, and he said it was against policy.

I want to burn that ****ing police station to the mother****ing ground.
I would've went to jail before I signed that ticket.

Buehler445
07-11-2009, 10:16 AM
I would've went to jail before I signed that ticket.

It was really REALLY tough. That was the least respectful I've been to a cop. A fucking visual test? Are you fist fucking me?

acesn8s
07-11-2009, 10:20 AM
I think important to understand this clearly is the fact that almost everyone is speeding everywhere.

It's not that they have to write tickets for 2mph over the limit in order to meet their quota. They just have to sit somewhere, turn the radar on, and wait 5 minutes. If you sit in one place people will speed past all day long at 10, 15mph over the limit or more. If no tickets are being written, as a manager he can only assume they are not running radar. He's probably asking himself what his people are doing with their time if they are so far below average.Krispy Kreme

Coach
07-11-2009, 10:23 AM
Krispy Kreme

Dunkin Donuts

Stewie
07-11-2009, 10:24 AM
Who gets pulled over must be arbitrary. I was doing 80+ in a 70 on I-435 the other day and a motorcycle cop in the median had his radar pointed right at me. Being in the left lane I thought I was done for. Nope. I went on by and he didn't move. He must have been looking for bigger fish.

acesn8s
07-11-2009, 10:26 AM
Dunkin DonutsTime to write the tickets.
http://www.tvacres.com/images/dunkin3.jpg

wild1
07-11-2009, 10:30 AM
Krispy Kreme

Well, yes, in a manner of speaking.

I have never had a management style where I would be constantly looking over someone's shoulder. If an employee needs to take a break then I'm fine with that as long as he or she is producing everything I ask of them, and does not let work pile up and knows when it's appropriate to break and when it isn't.

But people are very good at exploiting a system that measures their performance in an imprecise way or has unclear expectations. Many people are going to give you what you measure and nothing more. That's why you have to tie what you want out of your employees to something specific and measurable and that's what this guy is trying to do here I think.


As a taxpayer, I agree with him. If they are not doing anything else, a trooper who is costing taxpayer dollars probably ought to work radar to offset some of the costs.

He could be saying, "I'm getting pressure from above to create more revenue", and if that's the case then that's wrong. (He personally does not care I bet about how much revenue they make, but someone above him a few levels does)

But I think he's saying, "if you were spending your time when not working radio/crashes running radar like you are supposed to there would be a lot more tickets, so what are you doing all day?"

Baconeater
07-11-2009, 10:30 AM
It was really REALLY tough. That was the least respectful I've been to a cop. A ****ing visual test? Are you fist ****ing me?
Great, it appears I'll be driving right by Julesburg on my vacation next month, I'll be sure to slow down to 50 along there.

Who gets pulled over must be arbitrary. I was doing 80+ in a 70 on I-435 the other day and a motorcycle cop in the median had his radar pointed right at me. Being in the left lane I thought I was done for. Nope. I went on by and he didn't move. He must have been looking for bigger fish.
You must not drive a red car.

milkman
07-11-2009, 10:35 AM
I would've went to jail before I signed that ticket.

I don't believe signing a ticket is an admission of guilt.

It is basically an agreemnt to appear in court or to pay a fine in lieu of appearing.

Buehler445
07-11-2009, 10:36 AM
Great, it appears I'll be driving right by Julesburg on my vacation next month, I'll be sure to slow down to 50 along there.


It wasn't on the Interstate. It was on that little half a ass highway 385 coming into Julesburg. You ought to be fine.

Depending on when you come through, feel free to give me a holler if you want to make a pit stop in Sidney.

Phobia
07-11-2009, 10:38 AM
They are being performance-rated based on the number of tickets they write. They are given a number to meet. It's a quota.

I'll bet lawmakers have created some legalistic definition for "quota" and there's a loophole. That's all I'm saying. I don't like getting tickets any more than any of you.

Brock
07-11-2009, 10:40 AM
I'll bet lawmakers have created some legalistic definition for "quota" and there's a loophole. That's all I'm saying. I don't like getting tickets any more than any of you.

I don't care about getting tickets, I haven't gotten a ticket in years. I just wish they'd stop with the BS "it's all about public safety". And also, just admit there's an expected number of tickets to write.

Buehler445
07-11-2009, 10:40 AM
I don't believe signing a ticket is an admission of guilt.

It is basically an agreemnt to appear in court or to pay a fine in lieu of appearing.

It's not. He told me it wasn't, but I considered pitching a fit anyway because his speed measurement was incorrect. I was the good little citizen and paid it. I considered going to court in case the cop didn't show, but if he did, it would have been a colossal waste of time if he did show, because I had nothing to go on other than my cruise was set, and I can't prove that.

So I harbored my deep hatred inside. Hopefully I don't act on my urge to fucking T-bone one of the cops, drag them out of the cars, and beat the fuck out of them until I find the jerkoff that gave me the ticket.

Phobia
07-11-2009, 10:41 AM
I don't care about getting tickets, I haven't gotten a ticket in years. I just wish they'd stop with the BS "it's all about public safety". And also, just admit there's an expected number of tickets to write.

I get about $500 in tickets a year and spend another $1k to make them go away.

milkman
07-11-2009, 10:44 AM
It's not. He told me it wasn't, but I considered pitching a fit anyway because his speed measurement was incorrect. I was the good little citizen and paid it. I considered going to court in case the cop didn't show, but if he did, it would have been a colossal waste of time if he did show, because I had nothing to go on other than my cruise was set, and I can't prove that.

So I harbored my deep hatred inside. Hopefully I don't act on my urge to ****ing T-bone one of the cops, drag them out of the cars, and beat the **** out of them until I find the jerkoff that gave me the ticket.

If you would have taken it to court, even if you couldn't prove that had your cruise was set, it's highly likely you would have gotten a reduced fine.

I fought a ticket that didn't deserve, and even though I couldn't prove the cop was wrong, I had the fine reduced by nearly half.

Bwana
07-11-2009, 10:46 AM
Cops................

On that note, check this out: :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jp-ClzU7rwo</EMBED>

Baconeater
07-11-2009, 10:59 AM
I don't believe signing a ticket is an admission of guilt.
It's not, but it might as well be. You ever try to contest a speeding ticket?

wild1
07-11-2009, 11:02 AM
It's not. He told me it wasn't, but I considered pitching a fit anyway because his speed measurement was incorrect.

What did you hope to gain by "pitching a fit" on the side of the road?

milkman
07-11-2009, 11:02 AM
It's not, but it might as well be. You ever try to contest a speeding ticket?

Keep reading.

Bwana
07-11-2009, 11:03 AM
It's not, but it might as well be. You ever try to contest a speeding ticket?

Yep and if you want to take the time to go through the DA. A lot of times you can get them to either reduce the ticket, or you can pay the money the ticket costs and not have it show up on your record. It's a real time burner, but it can be done.

Baconeater
07-11-2009, 11:07 AM
Yep and if you want to take the time to go through the DA. A lot of times you can get them to either reduce the ticket, or you can pay the money the ticket costs and not have it show up on your record. It's a real time burner, but it can be done.
And what do you really gain? You're better off just paying the damn thing, and they know that.

JOhn
07-11-2009, 11:10 AM
It wasn't on the Interstate. It was on that little half a ass highway 385 coming into Julesburg. You ought to be fine.

Depending on when you come through, feel free to give me a holler if you want to make a pit stop in Sidney.
Damn I never noticed you live there. I go through Sidney at least 2 times a year going to KC.

Bwana
07-11-2009, 11:10 AM
And what do you really gain? You're better off just paying the damn thing, and they know that.

Not having points on your driving record? :shrug:

milkman
07-11-2009, 11:11 AM
Not having points on your driving record? :shrug:

Which, in turn, saves on insurance.

JOhn
07-11-2009, 11:12 AM
Not having points on your driving record? :shrug:

No shit they add up quick, at least for me :evil:

Couple little towns between here and Billings that are speed traps:cuss:

Baconeater
07-11-2009, 11:14 AM
Not having points on your driving record? :shrug:
That only matters if you get tickets on a regular basis, I've never even come close to accumulating enough points to lose my license.

Bwana
07-11-2009, 11:15 AM
Which, in turn, saves on insurance. Another thing to consider, is the fact that more and more employers base part of their hiring decison on a persons driving record.

JOhn
07-11-2009, 11:16 AM
That only matters if you get tickets on a regular basis, I've never even come close to accumulating enough points to lose my license.

Apparently they must like me. :huh:

Baconeater
07-11-2009, 11:16 AM
Which, in turn, saves on insurance.
Ok, I suppose there's that, although I have no idea what impact one ticket would have on my insurance rates. It's been two decades since I got one, and at the time I was a young punk who was already paying outrageous rates.

milkman
07-11-2009, 11:17 AM
Another thing to consider, is the fact that more and more employers base part of their hiring decison on a persons driving record.

Since I drive a truck as part of my job, my driving record has always been important.

Bwana
07-11-2009, 11:17 AM
No shit they add up quick, at least for me :evil:

Couple little towns between here and Billings that are speed traps:cuss:

Bridger would be one of them. I think that old boy rubs one out after he writes a ticket and he writes a lot of tickets.

Buehler445
07-11-2009, 11:18 AM
If you would have taken it to court, even if you couldn't prove that had your cruise was set, it's highly likely you would have gotten a reduced fine.

I fought a ticket that didn't deserve, and even though I couldn't prove the cop was wrong, I had the fine reduced by nearly half.

Maybe I should have done it. But then I would have had to take half a day off work. Maybe I should have done something out of principle.

What did you hope to gain by "pitching a fit" on the side of the road?

Maybe pitching a fit is the wrong word, but arguing with the horsefucker and attempting to get him to acknowledge that the speed measurement was inaccurate.

Damn I never noticed you live there. I go through Sidney at least 2 times a year going to KC.

Sweet dude. Give me a shout when you're on the way through.

JOhn
07-11-2009, 11:20 AM
Bridger would be one of them. I think that old boy rubs one out after he writes a ticket and he writes a lot of tickets.

Ding, Ding, Ding...... We have a winner:D

Yea that and Fromburg, limit goes from 65 to 30mph, and by god if your 5 over when you hit that 30mph sign...look out:cuss:

Funny thing, I had my 9mm in the glove box a few years back, thought the Bridger cop was going to shit himself when I told him my Registration was in there.ROFL
Nothing he could do as it was legal at that time. Not sure if it still is.

Bwana
07-11-2009, 11:44 AM
Ding, Ding, Ding...... We have a winner:D

Yea that and Fromburg, limit goes from 65 to 30mph, and by god if your 5 over when you hit that 30mph sign...look out:cuss:

Funny thing, I had my 9mm in the glove box a few years back, thought the Bridger cop was going to shit himself when I told him my Registration was in there.ROFL
Nothing he could do as it was legal at that time. Not sure if it still is.

If you ever make it through Joliet, MT really watch your speed as well. I hear that guy will stroke you out a ticket for 3 over. He kind of reminds me of this dude:

Buford T. Justice (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001276/): Nobody, and I mean NOBODY makes Sheriff Buford T. Justice look like a possum's pecker.
Junior (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0377947/): Except for that...
Buford T. Justice (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001276/): Shut your ass.

Frazod
07-11-2009, 11:55 AM
My best friend got a ticket on a reservation north of Reno a couple of years ago. The Indian cop didn't even have a radar gun - he just said he could "tell" how fast my friend was traveling. Perhaps his spirit animal allows him to do this. :rolleyes:

My friend is a big time anti-government libertarian and tried like hell to fight it, to no avail. Even if he'd gone back out there, he would probably have lost and was able to accomplish nothing talking to the prosecutor over the phone.

It might be prudent to avoid reservations in states where gambling is legal. The cops are apparently very angry.

L.A. Chieffan
07-11-2009, 12:10 PM
wait a sec. a superior officer writes "ya'll" in a formal office memorandum?

Frazod
07-11-2009, 12:12 PM
wait a sec. a superior officer writes "ya'll" in a formal office memorandum?

You haven't spent much time in the South, I'll bet.

Count your blessings.

L.A. Chieffan
07-11-2009, 12:17 PM
You haven't spent much time in the South, I'll bet.

Count your blessings.

well yeah, i go to the midwest all the time and i start to say ya'll too, but wtf?

how do they write their reports? 'i saw ya'll over yonder huntin fer yer gun when my car came up upon ya'all. thats when ya'll scadadelled. i's seen it.'

Frazod
07-11-2009, 12:18 PM
well yeah, i go to the midwest all the time and i start to say ya'll too, but wtf?

how do they write their reports? 'i saw ya'll over yonder huntin fer yer gun when my car came up upon ya'all. thats when ya'll scadadelled. i's seen it.'

Big difference between the Midwest and the Deep South.

BIG. HUGE. DIFFERENCE.

L.A. Chieffan
07-11-2009, 12:21 PM
Big difference between the Midwest and the Deep South.

BIG. HUGE. DIFFERENCE.

so you're saying people in the south are complete morons compared to the rest of the country including the midwest. cool

Baconeater
07-11-2009, 12:23 PM
so you're saying people in the south are complete morons compared to the rest of the country including the midwest. cool
They do practically speak another language. You don't even need to go that deep into the south to see it, I have friends in SW MO and there are some places down there that are straight out of Deliverance.

L.A. Chieffan
07-11-2009, 12:25 PM
They do practically speak another language. You don't even need to go that deep into the south to see it, I have friends in SW MO and there are some places down there that are straight out of Deliverance.

haha well yeah i realize they have their own customs and dialect but for a police officer to write it in a formal memo? uhhh

Halfcan
07-11-2009, 12:42 PM
It was really REALLY tough. That was the least respectful I've been to a cop. A ****ing visual test? Are you fist ****ing me?

They do that in OK too-I cop tried to say I was speeding-I was like-"I am 10 miles under-how the hell is that speeding.

He let me go.

POS!

LaChapelle
07-11-2009, 12:47 PM
Here's the ticket to get ya likin' pigs again, y'all

Paula Deen's Bacon-Wrapped Grilled Corn on the Cob
From Quick and Simple

Skip the butter -- do like the Food Network star does and use bacon to add rich flavor. Recipe courtesy of Paula Deen

8 ear(s) corn
1 pound(s) bacon strips

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Directions

Gently pull back the husks of each ear of corn, exposing the kernels. Do not remove the husk.

Remove the corn silk (use a brush, if available, to make sure all the silk is removed). Soak the corn in a large pot of water for 30 minutes. (This will prevent the husks from charring.) Preheat grill to medium heat.

Remove the corn from the water and pat dry. Take a strip of bacon and wrap it around the corn in a spiral fashion. Fold the corn husks back over, covering the bacon and corn. Tie the husks with butchers’ string; repeat the process for each ear of corn. Place the ears of corn on the hot grill and cook, turning occasionally, until bacon is cooked and corn is tender, approximately 15 to 20 minutes. Serve with butter, if desired.

alnorth
07-11-2009, 12:58 PM
I think important to understand this clearly is the fact that almost everyone is speeding everywhere.

It's not that they have to write tickets for 2mph over the limit in order to meet their quota. They just have to sit somewhere, turn the radar on, and wait 5 minutes. If you sit in one place people will speed past all day long at 10, 15mph over the limit or more. If no tickets are being written, as a manager he can only assume they are not running radar. He's probably asking himself what his people are doing with their time if they are so far below average.

Thats kind of the impression I got too. Going 5 over the limit is "normal", people who really step on it usually go 10 or 15 over. I can understand the rage if we have cops writing 3 over to meet the requirements for a pay raise, but its not like it is hard at all for them to nail people going 15 or 20 over all day long.

If my tax dollars are paying a cop's salary, its a slow day and he cant even write 3 tickets in 8 or 10 hours, then he sounds like a useless lazy ass to me. If he wants to sit back and wait for the people who really scream past at 15-20 over thats fine, but there are so many of those people that it shouldnt be hard at all to tag several of them in a day. Unless he's lazy and wants to exploit the "no quota" mentality to eat donuts all day in a car with his radar turned off.

Simplex3
07-11-2009, 12:59 PM
It's not. He told me it wasn't, but I considered pitching a fit anyway because his speed measurement was incorrect. I was the good little citizen and paid it. I considered going to court in case the cop didn't show, but if he did, it would have been a colossal waste of time if he did show, because I had nothing to go on other than my cruise was set, and I can't prove that.

So I harbored my deep hatred inside. Hopefully I don't act on my urge to fucking T-bone one of the cops, drag them out of the cars, and beat the fuck out of them until I find the jerkoff that gave me the ticket.

I went to court over a BS charge of turning right on red (which is legal in KS) thinking maybe the cop wouldn't show. He didn't, but that didn't matter because the first appearance isn't the trial.

Kyle DeLexus
07-11-2009, 01:01 PM
It's not. He told me it wasn't, but I considered pitching a fit anyway because his speed measurement was incorrect. I was the good little citizen and paid it. I considered going to court in case the cop didn't show, but if he did, it would have been a colossal waste of time if he did show, because I had nothing to go on other than my cruise was set, and I can't prove that.

So I harbored my deep hatred inside. Hopefully I don't act on my urge to fucking T-bone one of the cops, drag them out of the cars, and beat the fuck out of them until I find the jerkoff that gave me the ticket.

I had always heard that they have to lock your speed on their gun to give a ticket? Then I heard in a situation like yours you just ask to see your speed because you don't believe you were going that fast. I guess I should ask my brother about that, I thought I'd asked him and he confirmed but I probably didn't.

Kyle DeLexus
07-11-2009, 01:04 PM
I went to court over a BS charge of turning right on red (which is legal in KS) thinking maybe the cop wouldn't show. He didn't, but that didn't matter because the first appearance isn't the trial.

Was there a no right turn on red sign? I got pulled over for pulling into the far lane on a left turn, when the closest car was in the first lane so I pulled in the second since I had to make a right turn anyway.

Then I got pulled over for "looking lost" a few days later. Then speeding (about 4 or 5 miles over the limit) a couple days after that. I think they were looking for someone in a car like mine or something.

Simplex3
07-11-2009, 01:10 PM
Was there a no right turn on red sign? I got pulled over for pulling into the far lane on a left turn, when the closest car was in the first lane so I pulled in the second since I had to make a right turn anyway.

Then I got pulled over for "looking lost" a few days later. Then speeding (about 4 or 5 miles over the limit) a couple days after that. I think they were looking for someone in a car like mine or something.

Yes, there was a no right on red sign. Right behind the giant construction sign. In his hurry to protect the fine citizens of Merriam from my right hand turn on red into a completely empty intersection the cop flipped a two point u-turn in the middle of a road in front of oncoming traffic before he could get his lights on.

Brock
07-11-2009, 01:17 PM
Thats kind of the impression I got too. Going 5 over the limit is "normal", people who really step on it usually go 10 or 15 over. I can understand the rage if we have cops writing 3 over to meet the requirements for a pay raise, but its not like it is hard at all for them to nail people going 15 or 20 over all day long.

If my tax dollars are paying a cop's salary, its a slow day and he cant even write 3 tickets in 8 or 10 hours, then he sounds like a useless lazy ass to me. If he wants to sit back and wait for the people who really scream past at 15-20 over thats fine, but there are so many of those people that it shouldnt be hard at all to tag several of them in a day. Unless he's lazy and wants to exploit the "no quota" mentality to eat donuts all day in a car with his radar turned off.

Or maybe there isn't enough work to keep them busy so they are forced to go around writing tickets for illegal tint and negligible speeding and the like. Maybe we can get by with fewer cops altogether.

Buehler445
07-11-2009, 01:18 PM
I had always heard that they have to lock your speed on their gun to give a ticket? Then I heard in a situation like yours you just ask to see your speed because you don't believe you were going that fast. I guess I should ask my brother about that, I thought I'd asked him and he confirmed but I probably didn't.

I asked him if he had it on a radar gun and he pretty much said "....uhhh....yeah." Yeah fucking right. Fucking douchebag. I'll remember that though.

alnorth
07-11-2009, 01:18 PM
Yes, there was a no right on red sign. Right behind the giant construction sign. In his hurry to protect the fine citizens of Merriam from my right hand turn on red into a completely empty intersection the cop flipped a two point u-turn in the middle of a road in front of oncoming traffic before he could get his lights on.

You were clearly a dangerous threat to society. Possibly also truth, justice, and the American way.

alnorth
07-11-2009, 01:20 PM
Or maybe there isn't enough work to keep them busy so they are forced to go around writing tickets for illegal tint and negligible speeding and the like. Maybe we can get by with fewer cops altogether.

I'm not sure what laid-back Mayberry community you live in. Perhaps this is true in some places, but where I live (Des Moines) there is no shortage of speed, even in the city limits. When I'm on the highway going 6 over about 1/4 of the cars fly past like I'm standing still.

Brock
07-11-2009, 01:26 PM
I'm not sure what laid-back Mayberry community you live in. Perhaps this is true in some places, but where I live (Des Moines) there is no shortage of speed, even in the city limits. When I'm on the highway going 6 over about 1/4 of the cars fly past like I'm standing still.

Well, I don't live in a thriving megalopolis like Des Moines, but in my mind there are much, much more important things for cops to be doing besides monitoring speed on the freeway.

KCChiefsMan
07-11-2009, 01:28 PM
I hate this fucking country

alnorth
07-11-2009, 01:34 PM
Well, I don't live in a thriving megalopolis like Des Moines, but in my mind there are much, much more important things for cops to be doing besides monitoring speed on the freeway.

Not that I'm a pain-in-the-ass stickler for speed, but I have to disagree given the massive number of deaths on the road. Again, I'm fine if the cops hang back and wait for the truely dangerous people but there are plenty of them to knock out 3+ tickets in 8-10 hours. I'm sure most of us would continue to be responsible in a world without speed limits, but there are plenty of idiots who would create a flaming ball of death tomorrow if not for the threat of speeding tickets and higher insurance rates.

JuicesFlowing
07-11-2009, 01:35 PM
ya’ll

Great word. Just ... great word.

Skip Towne
07-11-2009, 01:38 PM
They do practically speak another language. You don't even need to go that deep into the south to see it, I have friends in SW MO and there are some places down there that are straight out of Deliverance.

I do too. They call anybody who lives north of them "Yankee"

cdcox
07-11-2009, 01:38 PM
Tennessee does not enforce speed limits very stringently. If you come up on a speed trap going 10 over, you're probably not going to get a ticket as long as you slow down as you go by. It is not uncommon at all for the fastest cars to be going 15 to 20 mph over the speed limit.

Demonpenz
07-11-2009, 01:52 PM
luckily my 4 banger with drumkit and guitar in back can't crack 75

acesn8s
07-11-2009, 02:03 PM
Not that I'm a pain-in-the-ass stickler for speed, but I have to disagree given the massive number of deaths on the road. Again, I'm fine if the cops hang back and wait for the truely dangerous people but there are plenty of them to knock out 3+ tickets in 8-10 hours. I'm sure most of us would continue to be responsible in a world without speed limits, but there are plenty of idiots who would create a flaming ball of death tomorrow if not for the threat of speeding tickets and higher insurance rates.Meh...let the too fast slam into the back of the too slow and relieve both problems. :thumb:

acesn8s
07-11-2009, 02:11 PM
I have no problem with the law enforcing a speed limit but don't pick and choose who gets a ticket. If the local judge rolls through then write his ass a ticket. If a cop in a police car is "patrolling" at a high rate of speed but not going to an emergency, write his ass a ticket then reprimand him too. 12% of police officers get caught breaking the law outside of work. That is what is reported. Imagine what that number would be if they had to obey the law at work too.

crazycoffey
07-11-2009, 02:56 PM
Crazy Coffee said quotas are against federal law.

That's not a quota. They're working with averages. They want their numbers to be the same as other districts. It's an easy loophole past "quota".

They are being performance-rated based on the number of tickets they write. They are given a number to meet. It's a quota.


I'll say this, I'd have a fun time with this supervisor. But this is one department and while there are others like it, the overall majority do not practice Quotas, they aren't legal. Profiling isn't legal either, but someplaces probably practice that too.

Well, yes, in a manner of speaking.

I have never had a management style where I would be constantly looking over someone's shoulder. If an employee needs to take a break then I'm fine with that as long as he or she is producing everything I ask of them, and does not let work pile up and knows when it's appropriate to break and when it isn't.

But people are very good at exploiting a system that measures their performance in an imprecise way or has unclear expectations. Many people are going to give you what you measure and nothing more. That's why you have to tie what you want out of your employees to something specific and measurable and that's what this guy is trying to do here I think.


As a taxpayer, I agree with him. If they are not doing anything else, a trooper who is costing taxpayer dollars probably ought to work radar to offset some of the costs.

He could be saying, "I'm getting pressure from above to create more revenue", and if that's the case then that's wrong. (He personally does not care I bet about how much revenue they make, but someone above him a few levels does)

But I think he's saying, "if you were spending your time when not working radio/crashes running radar like you are supposed to there would be a lot more tickets, so what are you doing all day?"

I don't care about getting tickets, I haven't gotten a ticket in years. I just wish they'd stop with the BS "it's all about public safety". And also, just admit there's an expected number of tickets to write.


Written tickets as a bases for comparing productivity is a very uninspired way for a supervisor to evaluate a law enforcement officer. In today's age of technology there is no reason the supervisor can't look a little closer at actual productivity;

traffic stops without tickets issued, roadside assists, investigative stops/public safety stops (A big truck losing some of it's load along the road, missing equipment, etc), arrests, business security checks (walking around a company building at night, checking parking lots for abandoned cars, vehicle burgulary, etc) = are all just some examples of activety a Police Officer can call into the dispatchers, who type in activity the officer reports.

In the older days we wrote out our activity sheets and turned them in on a nightly basis. The supervisor is a bum, and doesn't know how to do a good job at supervising LEOs and should look at driving a truck for a living......




I have no problem with the law enforcing a speed limit but don't pick and choose who gets a ticket. If the local judge rolls through then write his ass a ticket. If a cop in a police car is "patrolling" at a high rate of speed but not going to an emergency, write his ass a ticket then reprimand him too. 12% of police officers get caught breaking the law outside of work. That is what is reported. Imagine what that number would be if they had to obey the law at work too.


You don't understand that side of that profession, as I'm sure there are cops that abuse the situation, there are actually legit reasons to drive to a place in a hurry, but doesn't warrant tuning on the lights and sirens. If the cops don't have a good response time to your call of stolen property or the neighbors music on too loud, you'll accuse them of sitting around the donut shop all day.

I refused to ever eat a donut in uniform, BTW......

Valiant
07-11-2009, 03:09 PM
And what do you really gain? You're better off just paying the damn thing, and they know that.

No its not.. If the insurance happens to run your record they will raise your rate if they see you have a ticket..

Baconeater
07-11-2009, 03:26 PM
No its not.. If the insurance happens to run your record they will raise your rate if they see you have a ticket..
How much does it go up for a ticket for 10 over? I honestly have no idea.

soundmind
07-11-2009, 04:05 PM
These are our tax dollars at work. Protect & Serve is just a slogan really in most scenarios, it's a sales pitch to have everyone thinking they aren't just preying on your wallet. There are a million valid reasons to have police enforcement, and to spend good money on that as a city/community. It's just a shame they're under "performance" reviews in terms of "action".

The situation is f*cked. If the police force does their job to an impossibly efficient level, there would be zero activity. There will always be "activity" as the population is wide-spread and no one wants a police-state. But to essentially punish officers for a lack of activity (revenue) is absurd.

alnorth
07-11-2009, 04:06 PM
How much does it go up for a ticket for 10 over? I honestly have no idea.

It varies very widely from company to company on how much and how far back they look. Some companies will ignore the first one in 3-5 years and nail you on the second. Others might have a small 10% increase on the first ticket, but generally the magic number to really get nailed is 2 tickets in 3 years, or one extremely serious (reckless, DWI, serious injuries, etc) ticket in 5 years. Sometimes they will also have a policy where they ignore speeding tickets under 5 or 6 mph, but if its high enough then the speed doesnt matter. You dont get any credit from your insurance company for "only" being 10 over vs being 30 over. (Unless you go fast enough to be reckless, where we arent talking about just speeding anymore)

CrazyPhuD
07-11-2009, 04:41 PM
Well here's a local story about cops obeying the law......

http://sfappeal.com/alley/2009/07/man-killed-in-apparent-hercules-street-race-was-sf-sheriffs-deputy.php

crazycoffey
07-11-2009, 04:44 PM
Well here's a local story about cops obeying the law......

http://sfappeal.com/alley/2009/07/man-killed-in-apparent-hercules-street-race-was-sf-sheriffs-deputy.php


you make it sound like he broke the law while in a patrol car and in uniform.

Skip Towne
07-11-2009, 04:46 PM
Then there were those two cops in sothern Oklahoma who stopped people and "fined" them and kept the money. That worked well until that day they stopped an FBI agent.

crazycoffey
07-11-2009, 04:47 PM
Then there were those two cops in sothern Oklahoma who stopped people and "fined" them and kept the money. That worked well until that day they stopped an FBI agent.


Oklahoma cops are big pricks, IMO

Valiant
07-11-2009, 04:48 PM
It varies very widely from company to company on how much and how far back they look. Some companies will ignore the first one in 3-5 years and nail you on the second. Others might have a small 10% increase on the first ticket, but generally the magic number to really get nailed is 2 tickets in 3 years, or one extremely serious (reckless, DWI, serious injuries, etc) ticket in 5 years. Sometimes they will also have a policy where they ignore speeding tickets under 5 or 6 mph, but if its high enough then the speed doesnt matter. You dont get any credit from your insurance company for "only" being 10 over vs being 30 over. (Unless you go fast enough to be reckless, where we arent talking about just speeding anymore)

I have one of those not so nice companies.. I got a ticket for 10 over two years ago that I forgot to get a lawyer for.. The company finally ran a report and said we are increasing your rates for the ticket you got.. I was like, 'what ticket'? They only raised it for a year though and it finally went down..

If you pay to take care of your tickets you will have a zero chance on your rates going up..

FAX
07-11-2009, 04:56 PM
The absurd hypocrisy of this type of thing is stunning. Almost everybody ... and I mean almost everybody ... speeds on the freeway. All of the time. Young people, old people, bikers, truckers, strippers, nuns, they all speed. Almost nobody ever drives the speed limit - unless, of course, your car is messed up or you're blind or stupid or you've spilled your coffee or dropped a joint or something. Other than that, almost everybody speeds. Almost always.

Therefore, speeding tickets are arbitrary. They are given out to individuals based on nothing more than happenstance and coincidence. That, my fellow drivers, is no way to enforce laws. And, if you can't enforce a law fairly and consistently, the result is unjust punishment - because almost everybody else is getting away with breaking the same, exact law for which you were just punished. And unjust punishment is unconstitutional. When you're stopped for speeding, you are not receiving a ticket for speeding ... you are receiving a ticket for being a poor, unlucky bastard. And there are no laws against being a poor, unlucky bastard.

So, either enforce the law equitably and consistently, or don't enforce it at all.

FAX

Baconeater
07-11-2009, 05:48 PM
Oklahoma cops are big pricks, IMO
I love the "Watching your speed? We are." signs in OK. I also remember hearing that if you get caught for speeding and you're an out-of-stater you have to pay the fine on the spot, not sure if that's true though.

Skip Towne
07-11-2009, 05:54 PM
I love the "Watching your speed? We are." signs in OK. I also remember hearing that if you get caught for speeding and you're an out-of-stater you have to pay the fine on the spot, not sure if that's true though.

I don't know either but it wouldn't surprise me.

crazycoffey
07-11-2009, 08:38 PM
The absurd hypocrisy of this type of thing is stunning. Almost everybody ... and I mean almost everybody ... speeds on the freeway. All of the time. Young people, old people, bikers, truckers, strippers, nuns, they all speed. Almost nobody ever drives the speed limit - unless, of course, your car is messed up or you're blind or stupid or you've spilled your coffee or dropped a joint or something. Other than that, almost everybody speeds. Almost always.

Therefore, speeding tickets are arbitrary. They are given out to individuals based on nothing more than happenstance and coincidence. That, my fellow drivers, is no way to enforce laws. And, if you can't enforce a law fairly and consistently, the result is unjust punishment - because almost everybody else is getting away with breaking the same, exact law for which you were just punished. And unjust punishment is unconstitutional. When you're stopped for speeding, you are not receiving a ticket for speeding ... you are receiving a ticket for being a poor, unlucky bastard. And there are no laws against being a poor, unlucky bastard.

So, either enforce the law equitably and consistently, or don't enforce it at all.

FAX


we'll soon have camera's everywhere to do just that, mr. fax...

sportsman1
07-11-2009, 11:45 PM
The absurd hypocrisy of this type of thing is stunning. Almost everybody ... and I mean almost everybody ... speeds on the freeway. All of the time. Young people, old people, bikers, truckers, strippers, nuns, they all speed. Almost nobody ever drives the speed limit - unless, of course, your car is messed up or you're blind or stupid or you've spilled your coffee or dropped a joint or something. Other than that, almost everybody speeds. Almost always.

Therefore, speeding tickets are arbitrary. They are given out to individuals based on nothing more than happenstance and coincidence. That, my fellow drivers, is no way to enforce laws. And, if you can't enforce a law fairly and consistently, the result is unjust punishment - because almost everybody else is getting away with breaking the same, exact law for which you were just punished. And unjust punishment is unconstitutional. When you're stopped for speeding, you are not receiving a ticket for speeding ... you are receiving a ticket for being a poor, unlucky bastard. And there are no laws against being a poor, unlucky bastard.

So, either enforce the law equitably and consistently, or don't enforce it at all.

FAX

This times 100. Article doesn't surprise me.The TN troopers are bad about this.. I-40.... I never did the speed limit. You would see 100 troopers, and sometimes they would pull over a line. Other times they wouldn't. Its tarded times 10. That Memphis-Nashville trip for me never produced a ticket thankfully.

FAX
07-11-2009, 11:52 PM
This times 100. Article doesn't surprise me.The TN troopers are bad about this.. I-40.... I never did the speed limit. You would see 100 troopers, and sometimes they would pull over a line. Other times they wouldn't. Its tarded times 10. That Memphis-Nashville trip for me never produced a ticket thankfully.

The I-40 corridor is, I am told, a major drug corridor, Mr. sportsman1. Apparently, that accounts for much of the attention it receives from law enforcement. I've noticed some very interesting unmarked vehicles lately. Things like SUVs, little sedans, and even a small sports coupe with dark windows and lights concealed in the grills or the dash (both front and back). Very spooky.

Within the past month, I've seen 5 or 6 stops by these guys (supported by marked cruisers by the time I drove by) with the perp out of his vehicle, trunk wide open, and his stuff strewn all along the shoulder. If you're wise, you'll keep it within 5 miles or so above the limit through that area because you really can't tell who is or who is not a trooper.

FAX

sportsman1
07-11-2009, 11:56 PM
I'd heard that before.. but I don't really get it. I understand why the I 35 corridor is considered a major drug trafficking area.. but is there something I am missing?