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Von Dumbass
07-12-2009, 04:34 AM
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/5-things-to-watch-for.html
Kyle Orton, Matt Cassel and Jay Cutler all have new homes. The key for fantasy owners will be to evaluate and determine the impact each of these signal callers will have on his new team. The good news is that the other suckers in your league who weren’t smart enough to buy the NFP draft guide can waste their time figuring it out. We’ve got you covered.

1. Jay Cutler Chicago Bears



Cutler’s arrival in the Windy City (and the home of die-hard Cubs fan and domestic beer drinker Matt Bowen) provides an instant upgrade on both sides of the football for a city that’s hungry to get back to the playoffs. Fantasy owners should expect a quality season from the former Bronco. For starters, Cutler has the arm strength to make all the throws on the field, especially when the weather turns nasty in Chi-town and the wind cuts down weaker-armed quarterbacks late in the season. Look for running back Matt Forte and tight end Greg Olsen to post monster seasons. The key will be the development of the wide receiving unit. Currently, Rashied Davis, Earl Bennet and Devin Hester are all fighting for the top two spots on the depth chart. Owners should pay special note to rookie wideout Johnny Knox. He may not see much action this season, but we’ve talked to sources who inform us the Bears love this kid. The faster this group of receivers can raise their game to the next level, the faster Cutler will start posting big-time numbers.

2. Matt Cassel Kansas City Chiefs

If you’re looking for a marshmallows-and-rainbows fairy tale about how Cassel is going to put up crazy numbers again this season, you’d better look elsewhere because dreams are something we don’t sell. Yes, Cassel is going to roll up some garbage time stats like Tyler Thigpen did last year, but is that the type of quarterback you want leading your squad when the fantasy playoffs are approaching? No chance. Look at it like this: When tight end Tony Gonzalez was traded to the Falcons this past offseason, 32 percent of the Chiefs’ receptions from 2008 walked out the door with him. Wide receiver Dwayne Bowe is a very good player, but now that opposing defenses don’t have to key on Gonzo, they’ll be free to roll coverage in Bowe’s direction, making his life a lot more difficult. Remember, folks, Cassel played with Randy Moss and Wes Welker last season under the guidance of Bill Belichick. Dwayne Bowe and Mark Bradley are a whole different story. Cassel is sure to be overvalued on draft day, so let some other sucker pay the price and take the chance. Reliability and consistency are what you should be looking for.

3. Kyle Orton Denver Broncos

http://victordrazen.o3ms.com/nationalfootballpost.com/media_center/images/rendered/blog/wysiwyg/ko9.jpg
Orton could be one of the big fantasy surprises this season.

Now here’s a guy who may bring some excellent value to the table in 2009. Orton was traded from a team that has a dancing punt returner as their No. 1 wideout to a squad that features big-play receivers Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal. Keep in mind, Broncos head coach Josh McDaniels was the offensive coordinator who turned Matt Cassel from a never-started-a-college-game nobody into a fantasy stud. Imagine what he can do with a guy like Orton, who has some respectable experience under his belt? Remember, there’s a reason McDaniels agreed to trade Cutler to Chicago in exchange for Orton and draft picks. He likes him. Orton’s value may drop depending on what happens to malcontent receiver Brandon Marshall, but if B-Marsh remains in Denver, you know he’s going to play hard for that new contract. Grab Orton as your QB2 and consider yourself set at the quarterback position.

What about Brett Favre, you ask? Simple. If you want to take a chance on a guy who turns 40 years old in October and hasn’t even read the Vikings’ playbook yet, be my guest. Favre may put up some numbers early in the season, but he’s sure to wear down come fantasy playoff time just as he did last year with the Jets. And just like with Cassel, there’s going to be at least one guy in your league willing to pay a very steep price for him. Good. Feel free to take his entry fee and spend that money on a beer for Bowen and myself if you’re in Chicago for the Bears-Eagles game on Nov. 22.

milkman
07-12-2009, 07:20 AM
JFC Homo, give it a ****ing rest.

Why do you even post this drivel from a guy who clearly has no ****ing clue?

Von Dumbass
07-12-2009, 07:24 AM
About Joe Fortenbaugh

Joe Fortenbaugh is the senior fantasy football analyst at the National Football Post.

He previously worked as an NFL agent at JB Sports for three years while earning his degree from Thomas Jefferson School of Law in San Diego. Fortenbaugh, a 2003 graduate of Penn State University and member of Phi Sigma Pi National Honor Fraternity, currently resides outside of Philadelphia.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/joe-fortenbaugh.html

He seems like a pretty smart guy to me.:shrug:

milkman
07-12-2009, 07:47 AM
So he's a smart.

He'd be a hell of a lot smarter if he actually watched games and made knowledgeable comments.

milkman
07-12-2009, 07:51 AM
Oh, and when did Orton become a "Big name QB"?

The Bad Guy
07-12-2009, 07:55 AM
Oh, and when did Orton become a "Big name QB"?

Exactly.

I also love how Cutler got to throw to Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal last year, and is now going to Devin Hester and Earl Bennett but that doesn't matter in his overall game, but it does for Cassel.

chiefzilla1501
07-12-2009, 07:55 AM
Wow, this is a really insightful article.

So, Cassel was only good because he threw to Moss and Welker.
And yet, McDaniels should be credited for making Cassel so good even though he's apparently not really that good?

Insightful.

milkman
07-12-2009, 08:00 AM
Exactly.

I also love how Cutler got to throw to Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal last year, and is now going to Devin Hester and Earl Bennett but that doesn't matter in his overall game, but it does for Cassel.

A good QB can get decent production out of mediocre recievers.
But good, even great recievers, are very limited in their ability to raise a mediocre, inaccurate QB's game.

KCUnited
07-12-2009, 08:06 AM
So, "dreams are something we don’t sell", but its all about the fantasy draft?

Von Dumbass
07-12-2009, 08:11 AM
Exactly.

I also love how Cutler got to throw to Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal last year, and is now going to Devin Hester and Earl Bennett but that doesn't matter in his overall game, but it does for Cassel.

The key will be the development of the wide receiving unit. Currently, Rashied Davis, Earl Bennet and Devin Hester are all fighting for the top two spots on the depth chart..........................................
The faster this group of receivers can raise their game to the next level, the faster Cutler will start posting big-time numbers.

I think the media and Chicago fans will be in for a rude awakening with Cutler. Denver had and still has an unbelievably stacked young offense, the Bears have very little talent on offense.

If Orton stays healthy he will have a better year than both of those guys. He has a better QB Coach, a better offensive line, better WR's, better TE's, better RB's, and a better system than both Cassel and Cutler. Orton is in a perfect place for him to succeed, Cutler and Cassel are not.

Von Dumbass
07-12-2009, 08:13 AM
A good QB can get decent production out of mediocre recievers.
But good, even great recievers, are very limited in their ability to raise a mediocre, inaccurate QB's game.

I would say a bad offensive line makes good QB's look "inaccurate and mediocre" and a good offensive line will make a "mediocre" QB look like a good one.

Pioli Zombie
07-12-2009, 08:20 AM
Um, his focus was on fantasy points. I'm so effen sick of fantasy football geeks mixing that focus onto real football discussion. I couldn't care less who does what on fantasy football. I had Jay Cutler on my fantasy team last year. He was my best player. Does that mean I think he's a GREAT QB. No.
Less talk rea life football please.

Again, ask Chicagto fans if Kyle Orton is so good.
Posted via Mobile Device

milkman
07-12-2009, 08:23 AM
I would say a bad offensive line makes good QB's look "inaccurate and mediocre" and a good offensive line will make a "mediocre" QB look like a good one.

Sure, O-Line play has an affect, but Orton was only sacked 27 times in 15 games last year, and still only completed 55% of his passes.

Matt Cassell was sacked 47 times, and still completed 63%.

You aren't a 55% passer if you are consistently accurate.

And I'm not going to tell you that Cassel is going to be a stud.

I'm not a homer.

I'd call you a homer, but the fact is, you are clearly too fucking stupid to be given even that name.

Von Dumbass
07-12-2009, 08:31 AM
Sure, O-Line play has an affect, but Orton was only sacked 27 times in 15 games last year, and still only completed 55% of his passes.

Matt Cassell was sacked 47 times, and still completed 63%.

You aren't a 55% passer if you are consistently accurate.

And I'm not going to tell you that Cassel is going to be a stud.

I'm not a homer.

I'd call you a homer, but the fact is, you are clearly too ****ing stupid to be given even that name.
Have you ever thought that WR's catching the ball affects completion percentage? Or WR's beating 1-on-1 coverage affects completion percentage? Moss and Welker did both of those things.

Do you know how many times Orton threw the ball away last year? If the play isn't there Orton won't force it and he won't stand there and take a sack, he will get rid of the ball.

Fun fact: Orton set the Chicago Bears franchise record last year when he threw 206 consecutive passes without an interception.

chiefzilla1501
07-12-2009, 08:31 AM
I think the media and Chicago fans will be in for a rude awakening with Cutler. Denver had and still has an unbelievably stacked young offense, the Bears have very little talent on offense.

If Orton stays healthy he will have a better year than both of those guys. He has a better QB Coach, a better offensive line, better WR's, better TE's, better RB's, and a better system than both Cassel and Cutler. Orton is in a perfect place for him to succeed, Cutler and Cassel are not.

Ever think that Cutler maybe elevated the games of Marshall and especially Royal? The Broncos will be in for a rude awakening with Orton. Orton played in a game management offense, where you can win a game with 20 points. How will he respond when he plays with a defense that consistently gives up 30+ points per game? I was listening to Sirius NFL Radio a few days ago and they brought up a great point. Shanahan instructed Cutler to be ultra-aggressive, because on 3rd and 9, they had to get a first down because they knew the defense would blow it otherwise. And so Cutler was forced to throw a lot of INTs in tight spots.

Can Orton win games in shootouts consistently? That's yet to be seen, but that's a very important area of concern that apparently this fantasy writer ignored. Orton will probably get more yards and TDs because in Denver, you have to throw the ball A LOT to compensate for that defense. But putting up good fantasy numbers doesn't mean that y ou're doing things to win games.

The Bad Guy
07-12-2009, 08:32 AM
I think the media and Chicago fans will be in for a rude awakening with Cutler. Denver had and still has an unbelievably stacked young offense, the Bears have very little talent on offense.

If Orton stays healthy he will have a better year than both of those guys. He has a better QB Coach, a better offensive line, better WR's, better TE's, better RB's, and a better system than both Cassel and Cutler. Orton is in a perfect place for him to succeed, Cutler and Cassel are not.

God you are a fucking moron homer.

The Bad Guy
07-12-2009, 08:33 AM
Have you ever thought that WR's catching the ball affects completion percentage? Or WR's beating 1-on-1 coverage affects completion percentage? Moss and Welker did both of those things.

Do you know how many times Orton threw the ball away last year? If the play isn't there Orton won't force it and he won't stand there and take a sack, he will get rid of the ball.

Fun fact: Orton set the Chicago Bears franchise record last year when he threw 206 consecutive passes without an interception.

Fun fact: Kyle Orton sucks balls. Keep spinning that you traded a franchise QB away for a game manager.

the Talking Can
07-12-2009, 08:37 AM
About Joe Fortenbaugh

Joe Fortenbaugh is the senior fantasy football analyst at the National Football Post.

He previously worked as an NFL agent at JB Sports for three years while earning his degree from Thomas Jefferson School of Law in San Diego. Fortenbaugh, a 2003 graduate of Penn State University and member of Phi Sigma Pi National Honor Fraternity, currently resides outside of Philadelphia.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/joe-fortenbaugh.html

He seems like a pretty smart guy to me.:shrug:

ah yes, frat boy lawyers playing fantasy football...the most astute judges of football talent.....

i heard the patriots were going to scrap their scouting department and go 100% with frat boy lawyers who play fantasy football....

milkman
07-12-2009, 08:37 AM
Have you ever thought that WR's catching the ball affects completion percentage? Or WR's beating 1-on-1 coverage affects completion percentage? Moss and Welker did both of those things.

Do you know how many times Orton threw the ball away last year? If the play isn't there Orton won't force it and he won't stand there and take a sack, he will get rid of the ball.

Fun fact: Orton set the Chicago Bears franchise record last year when he threw 206 consecutive passes without an interception.

Pay attention dumbass.

You don't complete only 55% of passes if you are an accurate passer.

All those things affect completion percentage.

But the fact remains, Orton is inaccurate.

Tyler Thigpen had the best TE in the game to bail him out, a guy who caught everything thrown his way, and he still only completed 55% of his passes.

Von Dumbass
07-12-2009, 08:48 AM
Fun fact: Kyle Orton sucks balls. Keep spinning that you traded a franchise QB away for a game manager.

Actually we traded Jay Cutler away for....

Robert Ayers -"Three years from now Robert Ayers will be the best defensive player in this draft"-Mike Mayock

Alphonso Smith- "If he was two inches taller he would have been a top 10 pick"- Mike Mayock

Kyle Orton - "Orton operates best when he’s in the shotgun, when he has time to throw and when the offense requires him to make short-to-intermediate passes to an area on the field. It worked for Matt Cassel last season in New England, and it should work for Orton in ’09. Remember, the Broncos brought in Orton for a reason — to run this exact system." - Matt Bowen

And the trade also allowed us to pick up...

Knowshon Moreno - "He's quicker than fast, and he is the toughest back I have seen since Adrian Peterson" - Mike Mayock.

That trade will be the best thing that has happened to Denver in the past 8 or 9 years.

Von Dumbass
07-12-2009, 09:00 AM
Pay attention dumbass.

You don't complete only 55% of passes if you are an accurate passer.

All those things affect completion percentage.

But the fact remains, Orton is inaccurate.

Tyler Thigpen had the best TE in the game to bail him out, a guy who caught everything thrown his way, and he still only completed 55% of his passes.
Actually Orton was completing over 60 percent of his passes before he injured his ankle in week 8. And it was on his plant foot so it really affected his passes. He couldn't do 5 and 7 step drops for half of the season last year.

Kyle Orton Stats First 8 Games of the season
QB Rating- 89.25
Yards Per Game- 222.12
Yards Per Attempt- 7.28
Comp% - 61.88
TD's- 10
Int's- 4

Jay Cutler Stats First 8 Games of the season
QB Rating- 88.9
Yards Per Game- 271.25
Yards Per Attempt- 7.23
Comp% - 62.33
TD's- 15
Int's- 10

LaChapelle
07-12-2009, 09:01 AM
Clarett3-5 is about 12.

chiefzilla1501
07-12-2009, 09:04 AM
Actually we traded Jay Cutler away for....

Robert Ayers -"Three years from now Robert Ayers will be the best defensive player in this draft"-Mike Mayock

Alphonso Smith- "If he was two inches taller he would have been a top 10 pick"- Mike Mayock

Kyle Orton - "Orton operates best when he’s in the shotgun, when he has time to throw and when the offense requires him to make short-to-intermediate passes to an area on the field. It worked for Matt Cassel last season in New England, and it should work for Orton in ’09. Remember, the Broncos brought in Orton for a reason — to run this exact system." - Matt Bowen

And the trade also allowed us to pick up...

Knowshon Moreno - "He's quicker than fast, and he is the toughest back I have seen since Adrian Peterson" - Mike Mayock.

That trade will be the best thing that has happened to Denver in the past 8 or 9 years.

What's hilarious is that you still seem to think that you can play a game management style of football with a defense that can't stop anybody. You talked about how Orton will throw the ball away while Cutler will try to force it into tight spots. Great--now Orton can throw the ball away on third down, the Broncos will punt, and the other team will score a TD.

I agree you guys got great value out of the Cutler pick. But you keep suggesting that Orton is going to play better than Cutler and that's just laughable. And the QB is ALWAYS a deal-maker or deal-breaker for a trade. I guarantee that now that Cutler doesn't have to feel forced to throw a TD on every single possession, he's going to elevate his game even further.

chiefzilla1501
07-12-2009, 09:08 AM
Actually Orton was completing over 60 percent of his passes before he injured his ankle in week 8. And it was on his plant foot so it really affected his passes. He couldn't do 5 and 7 step drops for half of the season last year.

Kyle Orton Stats First 8 Games of the season
QB Rating- 89.25
Yards Per Game- 222.12
Yards Per Attempt- 7.28
Comp% - 61.88
TD's- 10
Int's- 4

Jay Cutler Stats First 8 Games of the season
QB Rating- 88.9
Yards Per Game- 271.25
Yards Per Attempt- 7.23
Comp% - 62.33
TD's- 15
Int's- 10

You keep talking about this unbelievable season Orton was having before he got injured, and yet there is about a 3-game stretch where he played solid football. Not to mention that in 3 of those 7 games, he threw for less than 200 yards.

Again, it is an entirely different brand of offensive approach. 200 yards isn't going to cut it for a defense that can't stop anybody.

milkman
07-12-2009, 09:11 AM
Actually we traded Jay Cutler away for....

Robert Ayers -"Three years from now Robert Ayers will be the best defensive player in this draft"-Mike Mayock

Alphonso Smith- "If he was two inches taller he would have been a top 10 pick"- Mike Mayock

Kyle Orton - "Orton operates best when he’s in the shotgun, when he has time to throw and when the offense requires him to make short-to-intermediate passes to an area on the field. It worked for Matt Cassel last season in New England, and it should work for Orton in ’09. Remember, the Broncos brought in Orton for a reason — to run this exact system." - Matt Bowen

And the trade also allowed us to pick up...

Knowshon Moreno - "He's quicker than fast, and he is the toughest back I have seen since Adrian Peterson" - Mike Mayock.

That trade will be the best thing that has happened to Denver in the past 8 or 9 years.

Wow.

Just wow.

I don't give a rat's ass if all three players turn out to be all pros, the QB position is the most important position, and every QB operates better out of the shotgun.

And Orton is a 55% passer for his career.

Until otherwise proven, those 8 games are the aberration, not the norm.

Von Dumbass
07-12-2009, 09:18 AM
What's hilarious is that you still seem to think that you can play a game management style of football with a defense that can't stop anybody. You talked about how Orton will throw the ball away while Cutler will try to force it into tight spots. Great--now Orton can throw the ball away on third down, the Broncos will punt, and the other team will score a TD.

I agree you guys got great value out of the Cutler pick. But you keep suggesting that Orton is going to play better than Cutler and that's just laughable. And the QB is ALWAYS a deal-maker or deal-breaker for a trade. I guarantee that now that Cutler doesn't have to feel forced to throw a TD on every single possession, he's going to elevate his game even further.

Orton was a game manager because that was the game plan in Chicago. When Chicago actually opened up the offense (see first Minnesota game) Orton showed that he can do much more than just "manage" the game.

Sure Cutler can make some throws that 99% of QB's in the league can't make, but he also makes a lot of dumb throws that puts your defense in horrible field position (see Miami game)

Orton will play better than Cutler this year. Mile High is a more QB friendly stadium than the Windy City's Soldier Field.

Von Dumbass
07-12-2009, 09:20 AM
You keep talking about this unbelievable season Orton was having before he got injured, and yet there is about a 3-game stretch where he played solid football. Not to mention that in 3 of those 7 games, he threw for less than 200 yards.

Again, it is an entirely different brand of offensive approach. 200 yards isn't going to cut it for a defense that can't stop anybody.

2 of those 8 games Cutler threw fewer than 200 yards.:doh!:

milkman
07-12-2009, 09:22 AM
2 of those 8 games Cutler threw fewer than 200 yards.:doh!:

No, actually four of those games.

Von Dumbass
07-12-2009, 09:27 AM
Wow.

Just wow.

I don't give a rat's ass if all three players turn out to be all pros, the QB position is the most important position, and every QB operates better out of the shotgun.

And Orton is a 55% passer for his career.

Until otherwise proven, those 8 games are the aberration, not the norm.

How many QB's drafted in the 4th round start 15 games their rookie year? He was put in a horrible spot his rookie year. He had no talent around him on offense, no offensive line, and a horrible offensive coordinator... All the while playing in the "Windy City" which is not a QB friendly place..

Orton has only been in the league 3 years, and last year was only his second year starting. He is still a young QB who has improved A LOT since his rookie season. He is only going to get better.

RippedmyFlesh
07-12-2009, 09:35 AM
ah yes, frat boy lawyers playing fantasy football...the most astute judges of football talent.....

i heard the patriots were going to scrap their scouting department and go 100% with frat boy lawyers who play fantasy football....
An average qb on a bad team is the ideal FF qb.
That to me is why it kinda sucks and I never got into it.
If a qb is on a team that gets blown out alot he will put up numbers because the d is playing soft giving them the 6-7 yd passes.
Aikman would have games where he would be like 15-23 with 230 yds 2 td 0 int and they would win. And I know that during that same week some qb whose team got blown out put up better FF stats. They just don't know how to incorporate winning the frickin game into FF which is why I have no interest in it.

Just Passin' By
07-12-2009, 09:38 AM
About Joe Fortenbaugh

Joe Fortenbaugh is the senior fantasy football analyst at the National Football Post.

He previously worked as an NFL agent at JB Sports for three years while earning his degree from Thomas Jefferson School of Law in San Diego. Fortenbaugh, a 2003 graduate of Penn State University and member of Phi Sigma Pi National Honor Fraternity, currently resides outside of Philadelphia.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/joe-fortenbaugh.html

He seems like a pretty smart guy to me.:shrug:

You're pimping a fantasy football evaluation. I know it's July and all, but still.

Ebolapox
07-12-2009, 09:47 AM
FFS.

don't you have better things to do than to try to convince us (and honestly, if one is this pig-headed about trying to convince others, he must need convincing HIMSELF) that orton is the next end-all-be-all? we clearly don't give a fuck. just troll your wares elsewhere.

Von Dumbass
07-12-2009, 09:48 AM
No, actually four of those games.

Orton was injured in the first half of the Lions game and already had over 100 yards passing.

The Bad Guy
07-12-2009, 09:52 AM
You should really change your username to KnowShit.

Mile High Mania
07-12-2009, 09:52 AM
An average qb on a bad team is the ideal FF qb.
That to me is why it kinda sucks and I never got into it.
If a qb is on a team that gets blown out alot he will put up numbers because the d is playing soft giving them the 6-7 yd passes.
Aikman would have games where he would be like 15-23 with 230 yds 2 td 0 int and they would win. And I know that during that same week some qb whose team got blown out put up better FF stats. They just don't know how to incorporate winning the frickin game into FF which is why I have no interest in it.

There are so many flavors of fantasy football... it's no longer just the random collection 14 offensive players, a kicker and a defense. There are leagues that incorporate losing and winning into the point formulas for teams... you can draft head coaches. It's a wee bit insane in some leagues.

But, the essence of FF is not about which team is winning the game... it does however get you to become more familiar with teams that you would otherwise care less about. And, it makes nearly any NFL game "viewable" on Sunday.

milkman
07-12-2009, 09:52 AM
Orton was injured in the first half of the Lions game and already had over 100 yards passing.

Even throwing that game out, it's still three games.

Rooster
07-12-2009, 09:53 AM
Fantasy football does not equal real football. :rolleyes:

BigRock
07-12-2009, 09:54 AM
Actually we traded Jay Cutler away for....

Robert Ayers -"Three years from now Robert Ayers will be the best defensive player in this draft"-Mike Mayock

Alphonso Smith- "If he was two inches taller he would have been a top 10 pick"- Mike Mayock

And the trade also allowed us to pick up...

Knowshon Moreno - "He's quicker than fast, and he is the toughest back I have seen since Adrian Peterson" - Mike Mayock.

You sure are a fan of Mike Mayock's opinion. Funny that he hated the Cutler trade and thinks your team is run by the dumbest sons of bitches ever born.

RippedmyFlesh
07-12-2009, 09:59 AM
FFS.

don't you have better things to do than to try to convince us (and honestly, if one is this pig-headed about trying to convince others, he must need convincing HIMSELF) that orton is the next end-all-be-all? we clearly don't give a fuck. just troll your wares elsewhere.

For me as a chief's fan it's like that episode of twilight zone where the kid wishes people in the field.
"It's good that you traded Cutler jimmy It's a real good thing isn't it ?.....

http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:d4f_ew2mL56rxM:http://www.spockosbrain.com/uploaded_images/TwilightZoneTRADEpoint-787736.jpg

grew up to be

http://broncotalk.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/patbowlen.jpg

milkman
07-12-2009, 10:02 AM
The more I look at Kyle Orton, the more I think "David Woodley".

Von Dumbass
07-12-2009, 10:06 AM
You sure are a fan of Mike Mayock's opinion. Funny that he hated the Cutler trade and thinks your team is run by the dumbest sons of bitches ever born.

I like his draft analysis because he is right more often than not when it comes to the NFL Draft. He was one of the few "draft experts" who liked Cutler more than Leinart and Vince Young, so of course he doesn't like the idea of trading Cutler away.

milkman
07-12-2009, 10:07 AM
I like his draft analysis because he is right more often than not when it comes to the NFL Draft. He was one of the few "draft experts" who liked Cutler more than Leinart and Vince Young, so of course he doesn't like the idea of trading Cutler away.

In other words, Mayock is right when his opinion fits your argument, and wrong when it doesn't.

Gotcha.

JOhn
07-12-2009, 10:13 AM
This thread is a microcosm of my life living in Bronco land.:shake:

Cutler was the second coming of Elway, right up till the day he got traded. Then suddenly he was a BUM, and ORTON was the next Elway. He just needed a good situation to play in.

I expect this from 10y/o Bronco fans, but it's very funny & pathetic coming from a bunch of supposed adults.

The only sane conversation I've had comes from the Bears fans. Their take: We got rid of one QB bum and got a better armed one, who will at least be an upgrade :doh!:

Von Dumbass
07-12-2009, 10:14 AM
In other words, Mayock is right when his opinion fits your argument, and wrong when it doesn't.

Gotcha.

No. I agree that Cutler is the best QB in that draft class, and he is more talented than Kyle Orton.

I haven't ever seen Mayock break down film on Kyle Orton though.

Just Passin' By
07-12-2009, 10:16 AM
This thread is a microcosm of my life living in Bronco land.:shake:

Cutler was the second coming of Elway, right up till the day he got traded. Then suddenly he was a BUM, and ORTON was the next Elway. He just needed a good situation to play in.

I expect this from 10y/o Bronco fans, but it's very funny & pathetic coming from a bunch of supposed adults.

The only sane conversation I've had comes from the Bears fans. Their take: We got rid of one QB bum and got a better armed one, who will at least be an upgrade :doh!:

The same thing happens with any fan base, really. It's similar to the "That bastard is a cheater/dirty player/jerk and I'll never like him on my team" people who suddenly start defending that same player once he suits up for 'their' team.

Ebolapox
07-12-2009, 10:19 AM
goddammit, I almost forgot. bronco homerism is the ONLY form of homerism allowed on the planet.

troll away, bronkey boy.

Von Dumbass
07-12-2009, 10:20 AM
goddammit, I almost forgot. bronco homerism is the ONLY form of homerism allowed on the planet.

troll away, bronkey boy.

Thanks :D

I am really not trying to troll, I am just defending my team.

Just Passin' By
07-12-2009, 10:22 AM
Thanks :D

I am really not trying to troll, I am just defending my team.

Starting your own threads with this kind of bullshit isn't defending your team.

Bwana
07-12-2009, 11:10 AM
Priceless

ROFL

Tuckdaddy
07-12-2009, 11:11 AM
This guy is a dumbass. He makes the case that Matt doesn't have players to put up good fantasy numbers this year but Cutler has them in Chi town? He most certainly does not. All three of these guys will be middle of the road fantasy wise.

Skip Towne
07-12-2009, 11:29 AM
Thanks :D

I am really not trying to troll, I am just defending my team.

Could you do that somewhere else please?

Ebolapox
07-12-2009, 12:35 PM
Thanks :D

I am really not trying to troll, I am just defending my team.

you don't really get sarcasm, do you?

the Talking Can
07-12-2009, 12:36 PM
bronco homers are just the fucking worst....

chiefzilla1501
07-12-2009, 03:41 PM
Orton was a game manager because that was the game plan in Chicago. When Chicago actually opened up the offense (see first Minnesota game) Orton showed that he can do much more than just "manage" the game.

Sure Cutler can make some throws that 99% of QB's in the league can't make, but he also makes a lot of dumb throws that puts your defense in horrible field position (see Miami game)

Orton will play better than Cutler this year. Mile High is a more QB friendly stadium than the Windy City's Soldier Field.

So you're basing this entire observation off of one game? Tyler Thigpen also lit the world on fire for a few games because defenses schemed for KC to run the ball with a very heavy dose of LJ. The game changed once they adjusted. Given that Orton threw under 200 yards in 3 of his first 4 games, I would imagine that the next 3 games brought an element of surprise. But still, the Bears' definition of opening up the offense is nowhere remotely close to the Broncos'.

And you keep talking about Cutler making a lot of dumb throws. And I am again telling you that Shanahan told Cutler to force balls into tight spots. That's something you are forced to do when your defense can't be trusted to make any stops whatsoever. Cutler will play much better in Chicago because he isn't going to be asked to carry the team because of a lousy defense--it's much easier to move from being a gunslinger to a game manager. Orton has a much more difficult challenge--he's going to have to move from being a game manager to a guy who has to win games in shootouts. Like I said, on 3rd and 9 in Chicago, you can just dump the ball off to a RB for a 3-yard gain or throw the ball away and then punt the ball. In Denver, if you punt, your defense will give up a TD. Much different games. Orton hasn't proven so far that he can carry a team when his supporting cast doesn't do their jobs.

chiefzilla1501
07-12-2009, 03:44 PM
2 of those 8 games Cutler threw fewer than 200 yards.:doh!:

And threw for under 200 yards in 3 out of 16 games by season's end.

Ultra Peanut
07-12-2009, 07:20 PM
A) One of those QBs is a big name. Hint: He isn't playing in the AFC West anymore.

B) Thinking Kyle Orton could "bring some excellent value to the table" in real life is like Stockholm Syndrome or something. We're talking Thigpen-level delusion, only worse, because at least Thiggy's track record of suckitude isn't years long. And also, his first-year QB rating is almost 20 points higher than Orton's, and three points off Orton's career best.

luv
07-12-2009, 07:22 PM
Written like a true FFL'er. And I thought this thread would be IRL.

Jethopper
07-12-2009, 07:56 PM
This is stupid. Anyone who has watched Orton knows he cannot hit average throws on an average basis. The dude is a below average NFL QB.

SnakeXJones
07-12-2009, 08:13 PM
It said 3 big names so why is Kyle Orton name on the list? lmao

Von Dumbass
07-12-2009, 08:25 PM
This is stupid. Anyone who has watched Orton knows he cannot hit average throws on an average basis. The dude is a below average NFL QB.

You haven't seen enough of Orton to make that assessment. He was playing just as good as any QB in the league before he got hurt. If you watched the first 8 games of last season you would know that he can be a solid QB in the NFL.

When Orton was coming out of college scouts said that the Patriots offense would be the perfect fit for Orton.

Positives
A true safety-first QB. Will never, ever force a deep ball or anything into double coverage unless it absolutely needs it (just 5 picks in his senior year). He has the field-reading skills of a 10 year NFL vet and can diagnose a blitz instantly, and is happy to sit in against it and make his reads. Good timing is a huge part of his play, especially in the underneath and short-medium range passes. He won’t even consider parting with the ball until he is certain his receiver is open, and may be on a par with plenty of NFL quarterbacks when it comes to play action – think ol’ Peyton but slightly less polished.

Negatives
One thing will stick out to NFL scouts – watching him throw a long ball is just plain painful. They’re either off target ( a long way ), underthrown so the receiver has to slow down to a crawl to receive it, or he sits in the pocket so long he gets snapped in two. Another warning sign has to be his benching towards the end of his senior season when it all fell apart rather briskly. One more slight knock is that he played almost all of his college career out of the shotgun spread offense, and will take a long time to adjust to the complexities of an NFL passing scheme.

Pro Potential
Orton is one of those QBs that you just know can be successful in a particular system. In a short to intermediate passing game he could well be a comfortable NFL starter as long as he can adjust to the rigours of the big league.

Best fit
Somewhere in a conservative system with plenty of underneath passes (think the Patriots) where he has a couple of years to learn his trade at a higher level. He gets those two – solid NFL QB in a few years.
http://www.footballsfuture.com/2005/prospects/kyle_orton.html

Valiant
07-12-2009, 08:30 PM
Is knowmo the Donk version of Gochiefs??

Von Dumbass
07-12-2009, 08:44 PM
So you're basing this entire observation off of one game? Tyler Thigpen also lit the world on fire for a few games because defenses schemed for KC to run the ball with a very heavy dose of LJ. The game changed once they adjusted. Given that Orton threw under 200 yards in 3 of his first 4 games, I would imagine that the next 3 games brought an element of surprise. But still, the Bears' definition of opening up the offense is nowhere remotely close to the Broncos'.
You really are not taking into account the talent that Kyle Orton had around him last season. You also aren't acknowledging that the Bears had the same philosophy about offense that Herm had. R2P2 I think is what you Chiefs fans would call it.

And you keep talking about Cutler making a lot of dumb throws. And I am again telling you that Shanahan told Cutler to force balls into tight spots. That's something you are forced to do when your defense can't be trusted to make any stops whatsoever. Cutler will play much better in Chicago because he isn't going to be asked to carry the team because of a lousy defense--it's much easier to move from being a gunslinger to a game manager. Orton has a much more difficult challenge--he's going to have to move from being a game manager to a guy who has to win games in shootouts. Like I said, on 3rd and 9 in Chicago, you can just dump the ball off to a RB for a 3-yard gain or throw the ball away and then punt the ball. In Denver, if you punt, your defense will give up a TD. Much different games. Orton hasn't proven so far that he can carry a team when his supporting cast doesn't do their jobs.
That is just the way Cutler plays. There were reports that Shanahan would scream at Cutler behind closed doors because of the throws he would make.
Cutler knows no other way. He is a gunslinger who has a lot of confidence in his arm, he will make plenty of stupid throws in Chicago.

Orton will have more weapons than he has ever had. He will have better coaching than he has ever had. He will have the best year of his career. Whenever Chicago took the handcuffs off of Orton their offense moved the chains. But you would have to watch a few Bears games to understand.

Halfcan
07-12-2009, 10:06 PM
You really are not taking into account the talent that Kyle Orton had around him last season. You also aren't acknowledging that the Bears had the same philosophy about offense that Herm had. R2P2 I think is what you Chiefs fans would call it.


That is just the way Cutler plays. There were reports that Shanahan would scream at Cutler behind closed doors because of the throws he would make.
Cutler knows no other way. He is a gunslinger who has a lot of confidence in his arm, he will make plenty of stupid throws in Chicago.

Orton will have more weapons than he has ever had. He will have better coaching than he has ever had. He will have the best year of his career. Whenever Chicago took the handcuffs off of Orton their offense moved the chains. But you would have to watch a few Bears games to understand.


Better coaching-from Lovie to a first year coach??

milkman
07-12-2009, 10:08 PM
You really are not taking into account the talent that Kyle Orton had around him last season. You also aren't acknowledging that the Bears had the same philosophy about offense that Herm had. R2P2 I think is what you Chiefs fans would call it.


That is just the way Cutler plays. There were reports that Shanahan would scream at Cutler behind closed doors because of the throws he would make.
Cutler knows no other way. He is a gunslinger who has a lot of confidence in his arm, he will make plenty of stupid throws in Chicago.

Orton will have more weapons than he has ever had. He will have better coaching than he has ever had. He will have the best year of his career. Whenever Chicago took the handcuffs off of Orton their offense moved the chains. But you would have to watch a few Bears games to understand.

The incredible stupidity displayed in every one of your posts is beyond parallel.

Congratulations.

Halfcan
07-12-2009, 10:11 PM
The incredible stupidity displayed in every one of your posts is beyond parallel.

Congratulations.

Yep it is like if the Colts lost Manning and then got Rex Grossman-and saying they are better off. :rolleyes: ROFL

Von Dumbass
07-13-2009, 09:05 AM
Better coaching-from Lovie to a first year coach??

Yes. The same coaching that turned a guy who hasn't played a game since high school into a serviceable QB.

KCtotheSB
07-13-2009, 09:13 AM
I think Orton can be a solid #2 QB on a fantasy roster if Brandon Marshall stops acting like a sniveling pussy....but that's about it.

Ultra Peanut
07-13-2009, 08:34 PM
You haven't seen enough of Orton to make that assessment. He was playing just as good as any QB in the league before he got hurt. If you watched the first 8 games of last season you would know that he can be a solid QB in the NFL.

When Orton was coming out of college scouts said that the Patriots offense would be the perfect fit for Orton.


http://www.footballsfuture.com/2005/prospects/kyle_orton.htmlYo dumbass, the thing you just quoted says he can only be effective in a dink and dunk that doesn't require much actual passing ability.

Von Dumbass
07-13-2009, 09:13 PM
Yo dumbass, the thing you just quoted says he can only be effective in a dink and dunk that doesn't require much actual passing ability.

That IS the Patriots offense, and it has been for a while. Tom Brady is a dink and dunker, he does throw a pretty good deep ball, but for the most part the Patriots move the ball down the field with short passes to Welker and the RB's.

Cassel is a dink and dunker too. Any Patriots fan would tell you this.

Just Passin' By
07-13-2009, 09:18 PM
That IS the Patriots offense, and it has been for a while. Tom Brady is a dink and dunker, he does throw a pretty good deep ball, but for the most part the Patriots move the ball down the field with short passes to Welker and the RB's.

Cassel is a dink and dunker too. Any Patriots fan would tell you this.

I'm a Patriots fan. WTF do you think Moss is out there catching?

ClevelandBronco
07-13-2009, 09:31 PM
I think the media and Chicago fans will be in for a rude awakening with Cutler. Denver had and still has an unbelievably stacked young offense, the Bears have very little talent on offense.

If Orton stays healthy he will have a better year than both of those guys. He has a better QB Coach, a better offensive line, better WR's, better TE's, better RB's, and a better system than both Cassel and Cutler. Orton is in a perfect place for him to succeed, Cutler and Cassel are not.

Can Orton have a better year than Cutler in 2009-10? Yeah, maybe.

But I'm still betting that Cutler will have the better career.

One of the dumbest trades ever, IMO.

Von Dumbass
07-13-2009, 09:32 PM
I'm a Patriots fan. WTF do you think Moss is out there catching?

He does catch some deep balls, but the majority of your passing game is Welker and dump off passes to backs.

I am not insulting Brady, I am just saying the Patriots dink and dunk a lot.

Von Dumbass
07-13-2009, 09:38 PM
Can Orton have a better year than Cutler in 2009-10? Yeah, maybe.

But I'm still betting that Cutler will have the better career.

One of the dumbest trades ever, IMO.

Cutler is the better QB. If Chicago gets some weapons around him in the next few years he could be a perennial Pro Bowler. I think he will struggle with what the Bears have right now though.

Orton isn't a bad QB, he never had anything around him in Chicago. I think he will be one of the 10-15 best QB's this season. If Orton has time to throw the ball he is not a liability.

Just Passin' By
07-13-2009, 10:06 PM
He does catch some deep balls, but the majority of your passing game is Welker and dump off passes to backs.

I am not insulting Brady, I am just saying the Patriots dink and dunk a lot.

Here's part of a post I made on another site following the 2007 season regarding passes that went a certain distance in the air:

Here are some comparisons from other playoff teams:

Gaffney had 5 catches which fit your standard, Welker had 2 and Watson had 2 to go along with the 4 by Stallworth and Moss' 11. Brady was 13-35 from 21-30 yards, 6-9 from 31-40 yards and 7-16 from 41+ yards. Total completions from those distances: 26-60 (Moss made up fewer than half of the 'deep' completions)

For the Colts, Harrison had 3, Gonzalez had 4, Clark had 3 to go along with Wayne's 14. Manning didn't toss a single pass of 41+ yards all season, and was 16-40 from 21-30 and 9-20 from 31-40. Total numbers: 24-60

In Dallas, Patrick Crayton had 4 catches under your 20+ in the air rubrick as his team's #2. Was the Dallas offense somehow crushed by this? Romo threw 18-48 from 21-30 and 7-14 from 31-40, never putting one 41+ in the air all season. Total numbers: 25-62

For the Giants, Toomer caught 2, Boss caught 1. I won't bother pointing out Eli's numbers, except to point out that his totals were 11-57

And, for one more, Green Bay... Favre was 9-26 from 21-30, 8-22 from 31-40 and 2-4 from 41+. Driver caught 4 of them, Jennings had 7, Lee had 2... Total numbers: 19-52

So, let's take a look. Brady and Manning went downfield the same number of times, with Brady throwing the longest passes and completing a slightly higher percentage. Moss caught fewer of these 20+ passes than Reggie Wayne, But the Patriots 'others' caught more than the Colts 'others'.

Now, as to what the pass and run combined ended up gaining, Brady threw more passes which gained 20+ yards than anyone else in the NFL that season, and he was second to Favre in passes which gained 40 yards or more.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-s=PASSING_20PLUS_YARDS_EACH&experience=null&d-447263-n=1&season=2007&Submit=Go&qualified=true&tabSeq=0&d-447263-p=1


In other words, if Brady was a Dink-and-Dunk QB, so was every other QB in the league.

Pioli Zombie
07-13-2009, 10:07 PM
Ortan sucks Woody Allens hot jew balls.
Posted via Mobile Device

chiefzilla1501
07-13-2009, 11:02 PM
You really are not taking into account the talent that Kyle Orton had around him last season. You also aren't acknowledging that the Bears had the same philosophy about offense that Herm had. R2P2 I think is what you Chiefs fans would call it.


That is just the way Cutler plays. There were reports that Shanahan would scream at Cutler behind closed doors because of the throws he would make.
Cutler knows no other way. He is a gunslinger who has a lot of confidence in his arm, he will make plenty of stupid throws in Chicago.

Orton will have more weapons than he has ever had. He will have better coaching than he has ever had. He will have the best year of his career. Whenever Chicago took the handcuffs off of Orton their offense moved the chains. But you would have to watch a few Bears games to understand.

Give me a fucking break.

Jay Cutler threw over 600 passes last season. 600! That's well over 35 pass attempts per game. And you're going to tell me that Shanahan wasn't aggressive with his offensive approach? Orton only threw more than 35 pass attempts in 3 games last season.

You don't know what you're talking about. I have watched plenty of Bears games. The Bears only open up the pass offense when the defense is keying in on the run.

AGAIN... when you play behind the Broncos defense, you can't lay up on 3rd down like Orton had the luxury of doing. Orton is going to have to be a LOT more aggressive in Denver and there's no telling how he'll do.

googlegoogle
07-14-2009, 01:09 AM
this article sucks.

Tony G was our complete offense? LOL

Kerberos
07-14-2009, 10:27 AM
Actually we traded Jay Cutler away for....

Robert Ayers -"Three years from now Robert Ayers will be the best defensive player in this draft"-Mike Mayock

Alphonso Smith- "If he was two inches taller he would have been a top 10 pick"- Mike Mayock

Kyle Orton - "Orton operates best when he’s in the shotgun, when he has time to throw and when the offense requires him to make short-to-intermediate passes to an area on the field. It worked for Matt Cassel last season in New England, and it should work for Orton in ’09. Remember, the Broncos brought in Orton for a reason — to run this exact system." - Matt Bowen

And the trade also allowed us to pick up...

Knowshon Moreno - "He's quicker than fast, and he is the toughest back I have seen since Adrian Peterson" - Mike Mayock.

That trade will be the best thing that has happened to Denver in the past 8 or 9 years.

I like his draft analysis because he is right more often than not when it comes to the NFL Draft. He was one of the few "draft experts" who liked Cutler more than Leinart and Vince Young, so of course he doesn't like the idea of trading Cutler away.

None of the so called "Experts" thought Joe Montana would be anything special being picked in the 3rd round in 1979 by San Fran.

But hey they can't all be Mayock right? :whackit:

Sorry if I consider all of your so called "Experts and Guru's" a bunch of Focking HACKS.

MOhillbilly
07-14-2009, 10:30 AM
Sorry if I consider all of your so called "Experts and Guru's" a bunch of Focking HACKS.

wtf happened to Hack? havent seen him post in years.

Skip Towne
07-14-2009, 11:24 AM
wtf happened to Hack? havent seen him post in years.

Didn't he go to Iraq?

MOhillbilly
07-14-2009, 01:26 PM
Didn't he go to Iraq?


i didnt know anything about it. his user profile says he hasnt been on since jan.
i miss that guy he was a real dick.

acesn8s
07-14-2009, 02:58 PM
I don't know what Orton will do in Denver but he earned my respect when he was able to come in and manage the Bears to as many wins as he has. He had a defense to help him out alot in Chi but I don't think he will have that in Den. If Denver gets 7 wins it will be because of his leadership.

talastan
07-14-2009, 03:06 PM
I'm sorry this whole d@mn thread is freaking hilarious considering up until a couple of months ago KnowMo's login name was Cutler2724. (I can't remember the numbers.)
This guy swore by Jay Cutler and now that he left his donkey-loving homer fan heartbroken he is posting articles about how Cutler isn't that great. Oh to be the dumped girlfriend, it sucks doesn't KnowMO? ROFL

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 03:29 PM
I truly love how much the Raidersification of the Broncos is continuing.