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Deberg_1990
07-12-2009, 08:48 PM
Well said Jason..













http://www.kansascity.com/sports/columnists/jason_whitlock/story/1318880.html




There’s a backup tight end for the Dallas Cowboys who is doing everything he can possibly do to invite self-promotional controversy.

He started his own “television” network on the Internet and uses the platform to stir up trouble. Early this year, the Cowboys fined him $22,000 after he recorded a rap song/video that used multiple derogatory terms to describe black people and gay people.

Now, in the past week, he debuted a video showcasing the “Black Olympics,” a Kool-Aid-, fried chicken- and watermelon-eating contest between himself and his brother, a rookie free agent with the Seattle Seahawks.

His name is Martellus Bennett. He’s just 22. He’s black. He played at Texas A&M. He’s accomplished next to nothing in his brief NFL career. He is best known for buffoonery on YouTube’s Marty B TV.

For the most part, Martellus Bennett is harmless.

I am not easily offended. Perhaps it’s my size and affinity for food, but I take virtually no offense to good-naturedly delivered jokes about food stereotypes. Everybody I know — black or white — loves properly seasoned fried chicken. Watermelon is extremely healthy and very tasty. And it wasn’t until I was in my 30s that I kicked my Kool-Aid habit.

When people e-mailed me on Friday asking what I thought of Bennett’s “Black Olympics,” I didn’t know what to think.

I wasn’t offended. I was sad. I grew even sadder throughout Friday and Saturday as it became apparent to me that Bennett’s grab for controversy was being ignored.

I’ve reluctantly made peace with the fact that black comedians and rappers can make millions of dollars shouting the N-word and lampooning/promoting negative black stereotypes.

If Barack Obama made use of the N-word a death-penalty offense, commercial rap music would disappear and nearly every black comedian would have to rewrite their material. My point is I understand the economic impact of outlawing our (black) self-hate.

What I don’t understand is when and why it became OK for a black athlete to milk the same cow.

I assumed that Bennett’s “Black Olympics” would cause an uproar among the groups that claim to stand against just this kind of racial exploitation.

Instead, I’m again reminded that we hold white people to a higher standard of behavior than we hold ourselves.

I say that because you know damn well if Jason Witten had recorded and televised the “Black Olympics,” CNN would’ve aborted coverage of Michael Jackson’s month-long death to perform a thorough analysis of Witten’s entire life.

Witten, a Pro Bowler, would likely be looking for another job.

Witten, of course, is white. And as a white person, we expect him to have enough common sense, decency and respect for his fellow man to concern himself with playing football rather than promoting a web TV show with silly racial stereotypes.

Pardon my sarcasm. But I’ve grown irate.

The blatant hypocrisy we’ve learned to embrace is not only sickening, but it’s also self-destructive.

I said this during the Don Imus fiasco, and it’s worthy of repeating: In the history of mankind, no human being has ever received more respect than he’s given himself.

That bit of history is never going to change. Never.

There is no special subset of human beings capable of treating you better than you treat yourself.

So if Martellus Bennett gets to hold a fried-chicken Olympics and call us the N-word on YouTube without serious objection, so does everyone else.

Oh, we might run the careless and stupid out of a job from time to time. We might even play a role in getting another half-black, raised-by-white-people man elected to the presidency.

But the grassroots, substantive progress we’re looking for will continue to elude us.

People see you exactly as you see yourself. The rules of respect are the same for everyone. How you portray and refer to yourself will determine how you’re viewed by outsiders. We have the power of self-determination. We too often fail to use it or misuse it.

Halfcan
07-12-2009, 08:52 PM
nice one

Micjones
07-12-2009, 08:55 PM
Whitlock's on a roll lately.
He's pandered to the myopic part of Mainstream America's fears and attitudes in his last three articles.
I'm shocked. [/sarcasm]

Keep the money coming Jason.
Your integrity be damned.

POND_OF_RED
07-12-2009, 08:59 PM
I just wish the Royals could contend until at least August one year so Whitlock doesn't have to keep reaching with these pointless articles.

Bugeater
07-12-2009, 09:06 PM
He's definitely right about the fried chicken, Popeye's spicy is like crack to me. :drool:

Saul Good
07-12-2009, 09:19 PM
Whitlock's on a roll lately.
He's pandered to the myopic part of Mainstream America's fears and attitudes in his last three articles. I'm shocked. [/sarcasm]

Keep the money coming Jason.
Your integrity be damned.

What's your take on the issue? (The larger issue, not this specific instance involving Bennett?)

DJ's left nut
07-12-2009, 09:19 PM
I'm fairly tired of Whitlock banging this drum (though I've never disagreed with him on any of it).

At the same time, this was one hell of a shot:

Oh, we might run the careless and stupid out of a job from time to time. We might even play a role in getting another half-black, raised-by-white-people man elected to the presidency.


He may as well have called Obama 'Bojangles' there.

Silock
07-12-2009, 09:20 PM
Doesn't he own part of a rap label?

Saul Good
07-12-2009, 09:36 PM
I'm fairly tired of Whitlock banging this drum (though I've never disagreed with him on any of it).

At the same time, this was one hell of a shot:



He may as well have called Obama 'Bojangles' there.

The only thing missing would have been "Oh, we might run the careless and stupid out of a job from time to time. We might even play a role in getting another half-black, raised-by-white-people AFTER HIS BLACK FATHER ABANDONED HIM man elected to the presidency."

Micjones
07-12-2009, 09:41 PM
What's your take on the issue? (The larger issue, not this specific instance involving Bennett?)

Stereotypes perpetuated by any group of people can be problematic.
I suppose that must be determined though on a case-by-case basis.

I'm not sure what Bennett was trying to accomplish.
It's also difficult to place the video in a proper context. It's YouTube.
I'll chalk it up as a young guy failing to have the kind of satirical or comedic edge to successfully represent the contents of the video as humor. With that said, I'm not sure that it presents a problem worthy of the national spotlight Whitlock casted on it. It has just under 7,000 views (hardly viral). I have songs on YouTube with nearly that many hits.

I just having trouble taking Whitlock seriously for several reasons.

I find it interesting that he isn't challenging the rest of popular culture that appropriates stereotypes for monetary gain. He'd have to be kidding himself or wasting everyone's time to try convincing anyone there isn't a contingent of White entertainers/directors/executives/musicians who don't also perpetuate stereotypes of their own. If I've seen 1 film about the stereotypical adolescent oversexed, stoner White teenager...I've seen 100.

Whitlock's been one of Tech N9ne's biggest supporters and his music comprises some of the very same negative imagery JW pretends to rail against. It's just not honest. He simply isn't the right courier to deliver this message.

Where's the outrage over Michael Bay and his illiterate and foul-mouthed tandem of negro AutoBots? Wait...that won't play well to the section of White America he's pandering to. Nevermind.

Pioli Zombie
07-12-2009, 09:47 PM
At least they aren't Jews.
Posted via Mobile Device

Deberg_1990
07-12-2009, 09:55 PM
Stereotypes perpetuated by any group of people can be problematic.
I suppose that must be determined though on a case-by-case basis.

I'm not sure what Bennett was trying to accomplish.
It's also difficult to place the video in a proper context. It's YouTube.
I'll chalk it up as a young guy failing to have the kind of satirical or comedic edge to successfully represent the contents of the video as humor. With that said, I'm not sure that it presents a problem worthy of the national spotlight Whitlock casted on it. It has just under 7,000 views (hardly viral). I have songs on YouTube with nearly that many hits.

I just having trouble taking Whitlock seriously for several reasons.

I find it interesting that he isn't challenging the rest of popular culture that appropriates stereotypes for monetary gain. He'd have to be kidding himself or wasting everyone's time to try convincing anyone there isn't a contingent of White entertainers/directors/executives/musicians who don't also perpetuate stereotypes of their own. If I've seen 1 film about the stereotypical adolescent oversexed, stoner White teenager...I've seen 100.

Whitlock's been one of Tech N9ne's biggest supporters and his music comprises some of the very same negative imagery JW pretends to rail against. It's just not honest. He simply isn't the right courier to deliver this message.

Where's the outrage over Michael Bay and his illiterate and foul-mouthed tandem of negro AutoBots? Wait...that won't play well to the section of White America he's pandering to. Nevermind.

Bennett just sounds like a young guy being a buffoon and having fun. He probably has no idea how his actions come off looking and the repercussions from it.


Whitlock i think brings up some good points.

I think his closing comments say it best:

"People see you exactly as you see yourself. The rules of respect are the same for everyone. How you portray and refer to yourself will determine how you’re viewed by outsiders. We have the power of self-determination. We too often fail to use it or misuse it."

Saccopoo
07-12-2009, 11:41 PM
Whitlock has found his niche: a black "journalist" who can/will criticize black people. The white middle class, and especially the media who broadcast/publish to the white, spending middle class, eat that up like a soup-dipped sandwich. That gets you spots on ESPN, ABC, Fox, et al. You get articles published in Playboy. It is your gateway to the mainstream of America rather than being just another sports hack for the local paper. OJ, Imus, McNair...that shit can't happen enough. Personally, I congratulate him for being savvy enough to take that route, but yet to be able to back peddle it enough to keep his racial cred so that he can make his commentary look legit.

Micjones
07-13-2009, 12:16 AM
Whitlock has found his niche: a black "journalist" who can/will criticize black people. The white middle class, and especially the media who broadcast/publish to the white, spending middle class, eat that up like a soup-dipped sandwich. That gets you spots on ESPN, ABC, Fox, et al. You get articles published in Playboy. It is your gateway to the mainstream of America rather than being just another sports hack for the local paper. OJ, Imus, McNair...that shit can't happen enough. Personally, I congratulate him for being savvy enough to take that route, but yet to be able to back peddle it enough to keep his racial cred so that he can make his commentary look legit.

Whitlock's time is coming. Eventually someone's going to lift the skirt on his circus act and force him to be a relevant SPORTS journalist again. All it takes is one person with a national platform to pull his card.

Tapdancing for an audience that has no more regard for him than the baggy-pants-wearing Hip Hoppers he disparages is both dumb and shameful. And at the expense of your own integrity? But I guess if you can appropriate it for the illusion of fame/notoriety and monetary gain...it's all worth it?
:shake:

JohnnyV13
07-13-2009, 12:40 AM
Whitlock's time is coming. Eventually someone's going to lift the skirt on his circus act and force him to be a relevant SPORTS journalist again. All it takes is one person with a national platform to pull his card.

Tapdancing for an audience that has no more regard for him than the baggy-pants-wearing Hip Hoppers he disparages is both dumb and shameful. And at the expense of your own integrity? But I guess if you can appropriate it for the illusion of fame/notoriety and monetary gain...it's all worth it?
:shake:

Whitlock is certainly pandering to a certain audience. But, what is he saying that isn't true? How does Whitlock harm racial relations with his view? (I could craft answers for these questions Mcj, but I'm interested in YOUR views).

I think black culture creates many of their own perception problems. Obviously, large portions of white americans view productive blacks as equals. There are now successful black men in almost EVERY facet of american life. Its not as if there aren't successful black role models.

Hell, theres Barack Obama, Colin Powell, too many athletes and actors to count, black entrepenuers like that guy in the movie who went from public assitance to owning his own finance company, doctors, lawyers. Thirty years ago, you have a good case that black youth didn't have role models. You can't say that today.

I think there are more successful black role models in the public eye than Asians. (Though, there are way more asians crowding the upper middle class due to academic achievement) Yet, Asians don't seem to have the same problems as blacks. Why?

I suspect you would make the argument its about white america's differing views towards Asians and Blacks. I suspect its due to BOTH external views AND internal culture. And both factors reinforce the other.

More concretely, mcj, what should we DO to fix the problem?

Micjones
07-13-2009, 01:08 AM
Whitlock is certainly pandering to a certain audience. But, what is he saying that isn't true? How does Whitlock harm racial relations with his view? (I could craft answers for these questions Mcj, but I'm interested in YOUR views).

I think black culture creates many of their own perception problems. Obviously, large portions of white americans view productive blacks as equals. There are now successful black men in almost EVERY facet of american life. Its not as if there aren't successful black role models.

Hell, theres Barack Obama, Colin Powell, too many athletes and actors to count, black entrepenuers like that guy in the movie who went from public assitance to owning his own finance company, doctors, lawyers. Thirty years ago, you have a good case that black youth didn't have role models. You can't say that today.

I think there are more successful black role models in the public eye than Asians. (Though, there are way more asians crowding the upper middle class due to academic achievement) Yet, Asians don't seem to have the same problems as blacks. Why?

I suspect you would make the argument its about white america's differing views towards Asians and Blacks. I suspect its due to BOTH external views AND internal culture. And both factors reinforce the other.

More concretely, mcj, what should we DO to fix the problem?

Herein lies the problem.
You make this entirely an exercise in the examination of personal responsibility. You say nothing of social responsibility. And that's precisely the illusion that Whitlock's imbalanced commentary creates. A myopic view into that which Black communities are faced with. It panders to a section of White America that oversimplifies the problem. The boot strap speech has always missed the mark. And it's not even coming from an honest place.

Someone who was truly concerned with bringing about change would recognize that only a twin focus can ever truly advance African American people in this country. The best Black leaders understood this. Whitlock understands it as well, but he's far too concerned with the advancement of his career.

What WE need is to understand how the personal and social responsibility pieces fit together. Black communities will ALWAYS hold their own accountable for their actions, but without awareness about the structural impediments that often foster self-destructive behaviors...we'll only be spinning our wheels.

Black communities have never been beyond reproach, but you wouldn't know that if you took Whitlock's drivel at face-value.

googlegoogle
07-13-2009, 01:28 AM
surprised Whitlock is writing about race again.

This is out of character.

JohnnyV13
07-13-2009, 03:39 AM
Herein lies the problem.
You make this entirely an exercise in the examination of personal responsibility. You say nothing of social responsibility. And that's precisely the illusion that Whitlock's imbalanced commentary creates. A myopic view into that which Black communities are faced with. It panders to a section of White America that oversimplifies the problem. The boot strap speech has always missed the mark. And it's not even coming from an honest place.

Someone who was truly concerned with bringing about change would recognize that only a twin focus can ever truly advance African American people in this country. The best Black leaders understood this. Whitlock understands it as well, but he's far too concerned with the advancement of his career.

What WE need is to understand how the personal and social responsibility pieces fit together. Black communities will ALWAYS hold their own accountable for their actions, but without awareness about the structural impediments that often foster self-destructive behaviors...we'll only be spinning our wheels.

Black communities have never been beyond reproach, but you wouldn't know that if you took Whitlock's drivel at face-value.

Hmmm...looking back at my post, I do emphasize the personal responsibility part. Yet, in my own defense I DO note that the racial divide is due to BOTH external perceptions and cultural issues. There is a fine line between properly demanding personal responsibility, and using it as an exuse to ignore injustice.

I also agree that helping the black community overcome these issues benefits EVERYONE. How many geniuses do we waste because they become disconsolate over a dysfunctional environment? How much economic production do we lose because of structual obstacles? The the more production we have, the more available goods our money can purchase.

As a half asian, i've seen my relatives suffer prejudice (I, really, have not. By some odd shake of the genetic dice, I look totally caucasian). Over the last 40 years, cultural perceptions about Asians have really shifted. Before, people painted every Asian with the WW2 Jap brush. Asians were short, had bad vision, and were untrustworhty. NOw, people see an Asian face and presume you're smart, while those negative stereotypes don't carry weight.

In some ways, I think Japan's economic success in the 70's forced those perceptions to change. Its hard to look down on someone who kicks your ass in business. Rather than a sneak attack, Japanese business men threatened us at that most American of games: prosperity. Unfortunately, no predominantly african nation has become a world economic power. The face of african nationalism in the United States are political disasters like Somalia and Uganda. But, I don't see any emerging transnational "image rescue" that can help American blacks.

Pioli Zombie
07-13-2009, 05:42 AM
Whitlock is certainly pandering to a certain audience. But, what is he saying that isn't true? How does Whitlock harm racial relations with his view? (I could craft answers for these questions Mcj, but I'm interested in YOUR views).

I think black culture creates many of their own perception problems. Obviously, large portions of white americans view productive blacks as equals. There are now successful black men in almost EVERY facet of american life. Its not as if there aren't successful black role models.

Hell, theres Barack Obama, Colin Powell, too many athletes and actors to count, black entrepenuers like that guy in the movie who went from public assitance to owning his own finance company, doctors, lawyers. Thirty years ago, you have a good case that black youth didn't have role models. You can't say that today.

I think there are more successful black role models in the public eye than Asians. (Though, there are way more asians crowding the upper middle class due to academic achievement) Yet, Asians don't seem to have the same problems as blacks. Why?

I suspect you would make the argument its about white america's differing views towards Asians and Blacks. I suspect its due to BOTH external views AND internal culture. And both factors reinforce the other.

More concretely, mcj, what should we DO to fix the problem?

Oh yeah? Have you ever seen an Asian who could drive? And why do they all have green cars? And every Asian little girl I've ever seen works at Daddys restaurant doing her homework at the counter. That's why these people rule the world!
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Katipan
07-13-2009, 06:23 AM
Instead, I’m again reminded that we hold white people to a higher standard of behavior than we hold ourselves.

Like the Redneck Olympics?

Micjones
07-13-2009, 07:48 AM
Hmmm...looking back at my post, I do emphasize the personal responsibility part. Yet, in my own defense I DO note that the racial divide is due to BOTH external perceptions and cultural issues. There is a fine line between properly demanding personal responsibility, and using it as an exuse to ignore injustice.

I tend to agree. Unfortunately, this has been the traditional response from a certain contingent of White America.

I also agree that helping the black community overcome these issues benefits EVERYONE. How many geniuses do we waste because they become disconsolate over a dysfunctional environment? How much economic production do we lose because of structual obstacles? The the more production we have, the more available goods our money can purchase.

Precisely.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

As a half asian, i've seen my relatives suffer prejudice (I, really, have not. By some odd shake of the genetic dice, I look totally caucasian). Over the last 40 years, cultural perceptions about Asians have really shifted. Before, people painted every Asian with the WW2 Jap brush. Asians were short, had bad vision, and were untrustworhty. NOw, people see an Asian face and presume you're smart, while those negative stereotypes don't carry weight.

In some ways, I think Japan's economic success in the 70's forced those perceptions to change. Its hard to look down on someone who kicks your ass in business. Rather than a sneak attack, Japanese business men threatened us at that most American of games: prosperity. Unfortunately, no predominantly african nation has become a world economic power. The face of african nationalism in the United States are political disasters like Somalia and Uganda. But, I don't see any emerging transnational "image rescue" that can help American blacks.

I'm not certain that the presence of an economic world power on the continent of Africa would help the response to American-born Blacks.

Otter
07-13-2009, 07:59 AM
but without awareness about the structural impediments that often foster self-destructive behaviors...we'll only be spinning our wheels.

Care to expand on this before I make any assumptions what I'm sure will be wrong?

Baby Lee
07-13-2009, 08:15 AM
Over the last 40 years, cultural perceptions about Asians have really shifted. Before, people painted every Asian with the WW2 Jap brush. Asians were short, had bad vision, and were untrustworhty. NOw, people see an Asian face and presume you're smart, while those negative stereotypes don't carry weight.
Being a person of my age and place, I only ever figured that you guys had tiny dicks. ;)

nstygma
07-13-2009, 08:23 AM
you be the judge

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/rS2ZIAQkVc0&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/rS2ZIAQkVc0&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

here's his channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/MartyBTV

i got a chuckle out of it

stevieray
07-13-2009, 09:16 AM
Black communities will ALWAYS hold their own accountable for their actions,

I stringly disagree. it's a well known fact that nobody ever sees anything when someone is shot.

structural obtsacles? like what?

Just Passin' By
07-13-2009, 09:23 AM
...Black communities will ALWAYS hold their own accountable for their actions...

ROFL

Thanks for the comedy on a Monday morning.

blaise
07-13-2009, 11:34 AM
In micjones world people should just read from the same script regarding racial politics that's been read a thousand times before. Anything else is strawman, tapdancing, etc.
It's one of the asinine things in racial discussions. People say they want discussion on the subject, but what most mean is that they want agreement on all the issues, and anything else is racist, Unlce Tom-ism, or strawman talk; and by using phrases like that they hope to shut down any talk they don't like.
The only thing more predictable than Whitlock's article is micjones's response.

WilliamTheIrish
07-13-2009, 11:34 AM
Thanks for the comedy on a Monday morning.

Higher % black juries convict black criminals every day. That's a pretty unfair statement. If a person feels it's endangering to talk to the cops in the open, but give an anonymous tip, that's still coming forward.

And it happens all the time.

Just Passin' By
07-13-2009, 11:56 AM
Higher % black juries convict black criminals every day. That's a pretty unfair statement. If a person feels it's endangering to talk to the cops in the open, but give an anonymous tip, that's still coming forward.

And it happens all the time.

I don't believe it's an unfair statement at all. This was the statement it was replying to:

Black communities will ALWAYS hold their own accountable for their actions

Notice the all caps on ALWAYS. Do you really think I need to make some kind of list to show just how inane that claim was?

Braincase
07-13-2009, 01:12 PM
I have a simple litmus test. If whatever is being said/done were to be done by a different race, and it looks racist then, it's racist to start with. If it's a person of African heritage saying something about caucasians, turn it around, see if it appears racist in the mirror. If so, it's wrong.

WilliamTheIrish
07-13-2009, 01:36 PM
I don't believe it's an unfair statement at all. This was the statement it was replying to:

Do you really think I need to make some kind of list to show just how inane that claim was?

Yes. I'd be very interested in that list.

Micjones
07-13-2009, 01:43 PM
Care to expand on this before I make any assumptions what I'm sure will be wrong?

Structural impediments like disparities in economics, education, the justice system, lending, opportunity, etc.

Micjones
07-13-2009, 01:52 PM
I stringly disagree. it's a well known fact that nobody ever sees anything when someone is shot.

Let's not speak in absolutes. That'll choke off any point you're trying to represent before you get started.

Black people in many cases have a historically based distrust of law enforcement officials that, given the tradition of the misappropriation of authority in our country, is difficult to argue with. Additionally the failure of the legal system to afford certain protections to those who do cooperate further complicates that problem.

But I'm sure you're just upset about non-Black people who assume "no snitching" postures. Like, say, the police themselves?

structural obtsacles? like what?

See above.

Micjones
07-13-2009, 01:53 PM
ROFL

Thanks for the comedy on a Monday morning.

Certainly you have your hand on the pulse of the African American community.
:rolleyes:

Chocolate Hog
07-13-2009, 01:55 PM
Structural impediments like disparities in economics, education, the justice system, lending, opportunity, etc.

To be fair the black community has continuted to vote for politicans who haven't changed any of those.

Micjones
07-13-2009, 01:55 PM
In micjones world people should just read from the same script regarding racial politics that's been read a thousand times before. Anything else is strawman, tapdancing, etc.
It's one of the asinine things in racial discussions. People say they want discussion on the subject, but what most mean is that they want agreement on all the issues, and anything else is racist, Unlce Tom-ism, or strawman talk; and by using phrases like that they hope to shut down any talk they don't like.
The only thing more predictable than Whitlock's article is micjones's response.

A response you've consistently chosen not to respond to with any real rebuttal.
I'm fine with that. That, too, is typical.

Micjones
07-13-2009, 01:56 PM
To be fair the black community has continuted to vote for politicans who haven't changed any of those.

As have SOME members of your community.
This isn't scientific.

Brock
07-13-2009, 01:57 PM
Black communities will ALWAYS hold their own accountable for their actions, but without awareness about the structural impediments that often foster self-destructive behaviors...we'll only be spinning our wheels.

Right. "Stop snitchin'"

Chocolate Hog
07-13-2009, 01:59 PM
As have SOME members of your community.
This isn't scientific.

Some but c'mon lets be honest the government isn't going to change things for blacks they'll have to do it themselves. They rely on Democrats who don't respresent them to fix their own problems. They should back a candidate who is for legalizing drugs. Let's be honest the drug war has hurt the Urban areas the most and it's ridiculous. Legalize that and you can start to build the urban community.

Garcia Bronco
07-13-2009, 03:48 PM
People out there take their "racial history" way to seriously. We all generally came from the same place and we are all pure breed mutts. Please FTLOG get over yourself.

Micjones
07-13-2009, 04:02 PM
Right. "Stop snitchin'"

Yeah, that "Blue Wall of Silence" is such the Black thing.
ROFL

Micjones
07-13-2009, 04:05 PM
Some but c'mon lets be honest the government isn't going to change things for blacks they'll have to do it themselves.

It isn't solely the responsibility of government, but they certainly have a place at the table. We shouldn't accept the representation of government that seeks to keep the structural impediments in place that disadvantage Black people. NONE of us.

Micjones
07-13-2009, 04:07 PM
To be fair the black community has continuted to vote for politicans who haven't changed any of those.

The legacy of White supremacy in America isn't tied to any one political party.
That's an oversimplification.

And Black people aren't as monolithic in their political ideas as you suggest.
We're represented all across the spectrum.

stevieray
07-13-2009, 04:39 PM
Structural impediments like disparities in economics, education, the justice system, lending, opportunity, etc.
Economics...Thomas Sowell
Education....Charles Hamilton Houston
Justice System..Thurgood Marshall Clarence Thomas
Lending....Franklin Raines
Opportunity..Barack Obama, Oprah. Michael Jordan. Michael Jackson, etc

..the disparirties you speak of happen to all of us, not just black people. you and I can't afford the life education. attorneys, or purchasing power of Derrick Johnson. we never will, (unless you hiit in music)..it's just the way it is. ..there will always be poor, of all colors.

I think the biggest dispariitiy is between fathers and daddys...A lack of a solid two parent home is devastating, and with a 2 out of 3 rate, it puts almost everyone at risk, a strong male role model in the home puts a huge dent in all the things you mention.

Fruit Ninja
07-13-2009, 04:49 PM
i just let it be, people can say whatever the hell they want. I just shrug 99 percent of that shit off anyways.

stevieray
07-13-2009, 04:49 PM
Let's not speak in absolutes. That'll choke off any point you're trying to represent before you get started.



But I'm sure you're just upset about non-Black people who assume "no snitching" postures. Like, say, the police themselves?



See above.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Micjones
07-13-2009, 05:19 PM
Economics...Thomas Sowell
Education....Charles Hamilton Houston
Justice System..Thurgood Marshall Clarence Thomas
Lending....Franklin Raines
Opportunity..Barack Obama, Oprah. Michael Jordan. Michael Jackson, etc

Extraordinary examples of African American accomplishment.
Unfortunately they do not and cannot undo the structural inequalities that've handicapped thousands of other African Americans who haven't been as successful.

..the disparirties you speak of happen to all of us, not just black people. you and I can't afford the life education. attorneys, or purchasing power of Derrick Johnson. we never will, (unless you hiit in music)..it's just the way it is. ..there will always be poor, of all colors.

Indeed, but certainly you acknowledge the unique circumstances of Black people in this country who've faced a legacy of systemic discrimination and oppression?

I think the biggest dispariitiy is between fathers and daddys...A lack of a solid two parent home is devastating, and with a 2 out of 3 rate, it puts almost everyone at risk, a strong male role model in the home puts a huge dent in all the things you mention.

Let's not pretend this isn't also a significant problem in White America.
Roughly a third of all White children grow up in father-absent homes.

Additionally, the legacy of slavery began assaulting the structure of the Black family more than 300 years ago. There has been a historical war waged against the solidarity of the Black home. To deny that is to be disingenuous.

Now, that is not to say that we cannot and should not be more responsible about child-bearing and the maintenance of the Black family... I pride myself on being a consistent part of my child's life. Despite the fact that his mother and I are no longer involved.

Micjones
07-13-2009, 05:21 PM
I couldn't have said it better myself.

"Stop snitchin" isn't a distinctly Black ideal. NEVER has been.

stevieray
07-13-2009, 05:46 PM
Extraordinary examples of African American accomplishment.
Unfortunately they do not and cannot undo the structural inequalities that've handicapped thousands of other African Americans who haven't been as successful.



Indeed, but certainly you acknowledge the unique circumstances of Black people in this country who've faced a legacy of systemic discrimination and oppression?



Let's not pretend this isn't also a significant problem in White America.
Roughly a third of all White children grow up in father-absent homes.

Additionally, the legacy of slavery began assaulting the structure of the Black family more than 300 years ago. There has been a historical war waged against the solidarity of the Black home. To deny that is to be disingenuous.

Now, that is not to say that we cannot and should not be more responsible about child-bearing and the maintenance of the Black family... I pride myself on being a consistent part of my child's life. Despite the fact that his mother and I are no longer involved.

They've shown that it can be done, and thousands of whites will never achieve it either. not becuase of color, becuase of who they are/were as people...we all make life choices, and reap waht we sow.


People of all color who ended up here were discriminated against at one time or another...or endured hardshios..you gotta rise above it.

The numbers don't prove out..before sgregation, black families were huge..8out of ten men were employed....now? graduation rate now? incarceration rate now? abortion gave power to women, but diempowered the responsibilty that goes with a family...until men of all colors step up to the plate., nothing is going to change..in fact, it will prolly get worse, becuase of an upcoming generation that doesn't even endorse marriage, per the example set by their parents and society, further dviding us into even smaller fractures, inhibiting our sense of community and commonwealth.

Deberg_1990
07-13-2009, 05:47 PM
Extraordinary examples of African American accomplishment.
Unfortunately they do not and cannot undo the structural inequalities that've handicapped thousands of other African Americans who haven't been as successful.

Yes because there are definately no poor white, Asian or Hispanic people in the US. Like Stevie said earlier, there will always be poor and underprivledged of all colors.

Micjones
07-13-2009, 05:58 PM
They've shown that it can be done, and thousands of whites will never achieve it either.

Do thousands of Whites have a historical legacy of systemic discrimination and oppression that stave them off from the realization of the American dream?

not becuase of color, becuase of who they are/were as people...we all make life choices, and reap waht we sow.

This is an oversimplification.
One that makes personal responsibility the only variable in play.
And that, sir, misses the mark by as wide a margin as humanly possible.

The numbers don't prove out..before sgregation, black families were huge..8out of ten men were employed....now? graduation rate now? incarceration rate now? abortion gave power to women, but diempowered the responsibilty that goes with a family...until men of all colors step up to the plate., nothing is going to change..in fact, it will prolly get worse, becuase of an upcoming generation that doesn't even endorse marriage, per the example set by their parents and society, further dviding us into even smaller fractures, inhibiting our sense of community and commonwealth.

It's disingenuous to talk about incarceration rates without also assailing the justice system for Blacks being imprisoned at disproportionate rates.

Same with education. It's tricky to have the conversation about moral failures in Black communities regarding education without also doing a real examination of how the public education system is often failing those students.

The problem with marriage knows no color line.
The divorce rate is North of 50% across the board.

Again, the personal responsibility of Black fathers is a necessary discussion to have, but one that is ultimately misguided if we fail to also talk about the assault on the Black family that is nearly 400 years old.

Micjones
07-13-2009, 06:00 PM
Yes because there are definately no poor white, Asian or Hispanic people in the US. Like Stevie said earlier, there will always be poor and underprivledged of all colors.

Again, this is about more than just poverty. And I've never argued that the poor aren't represented by all of the ethnic strands that call America home. But that's a not-so-clever distraction.

If you'd like though...make the argument that there is a link between the impoverished Whites and systemic discrimination and oppression that feeds that monster...go right ahead. I'll wait patiently.

stevieray
07-13-2009, 06:43 PM
Do thousands of Whites have a historical legacy of systemic discrimination and oppression that stave them off from the realization of the American dream?


(sure, you don't think that the Irish, Cinese, Japanese , Pols and Germans weren't discrimianted against? culturally and economically? how many thousands got off the boat and got arifle put in their hands to fight and die in the Civil War? giving their lives so others could have fredoom..sound familiar?)



This is an oversimplification.
One that makes personal responsibility the only variable in play.
And that, sir, misses the mark by as wide a margin as humanly possible.

(Personal responsibilty is what this country is founded on, and one of the major factors in freedom exisitng..it's why we have peaceful transfer of pwoer every eight years.)


It's disingenuous to talk about incarceration rates without also assailing the justice system for Blacks being imprisoned at disproportionate rates.

(this statement presumes that every black cop, ADA, Judge, CIty Offical and Mayors would be turning a blind eye)

Again, the personal responsibility of Black fathers is a necessary discussion to have, but one that is ultimately misguided if we fail to also talk about the assault on the Black family that is nearly 400 years old.

(the black family sustained for centuries and is crunbling apart in a half century...it's sad.)


see above

stevieray
07-13-2009, 06:53 PM
Same with education. It's tricky to have the conversation about moral failures in Black communities regarding education without also doing a real examination of how the public education system is often failing those students.

The problem with marriage knows no color line.
The divorce rate is North of 50% across the board.


failing those students? parents are failing those students...let's be honest here... the drugs and violence that permeates the schools are poison. no respect for teachers, nor respect for authority in schools....who would want to teach or go to a school like that? schools don't fix those problems..parents do....when families broke down, the focus began shiting to kids...and without proper guidance spun out of control.

I don't beleive I've stated that divorce is more prevelant, moreso that almost everyone is at risk under those conditions. If I did, it wasn't my intention.

Pioli Zombie
07-13-2009, 09:58 PM
We all know that people are the same wherever you go. There is good and bad. Uhhh-huh in everyone. When we learn to live, learn to give each other what we need to survive. Together alive.
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Micjones
07-13-2009, 11:04 PM
(sure, you don't think that the Irish, Cinese, Japanese , Pols and Germans weren't discrimianted against? culturally and economically? how many thousands got off the boat and got arifle put in their hands to fight and die in the Civil War? giving their lives so others could have fredoom..sound familiar?)

Irishmen, Pols, and Germans who were able to function as a part of the White majority that was free from the wholesale discrimination that it often imposed on it's non-White counterparts? Immigrants who were afforded very basic freedoms that American-born Blacks were staved off from?

There is nothing at all comparable about the history of European immigrants versus that of African-American people born in this country.

(Personal responsibilty is what this country is founded on, and one of the major factors in freedom exisitng..it's why we have peaceful transfer of pwoer every eight years.)

This country is built on land-stealing and slave labor.
Those two things certainly scream "personal responsibility".
[/sarcasm]

(this statement presumes that every black cop, ADA, Judge, CIty Offical and Mayors would be turning a blind eye)

Systemic disparities in the justice system supercede the judgment and or awareness of any one law enforcement official, attorney, or court of law. Systemic. "System" being the root word.

(the black family sustained for centuries and is crunbling apart in a half century...it's sad.)

Find the nearest library and crack a book open.
Please... You'll be doing the both of us a favor.
You speak in such inaccurate absolutes about American history that it's a wonder you ever even took the course.

Micjones
07-13-2009, 11:17 PM
failing those students? parents are failing those students...let's be honest here...

Another denial of the very humanity of the African American parents you're casting these judgmental stones upon. Color me surprised.

God forbid that they could ever hold the same core values as their White counterparts dear to heart. No chance that they aspire to the very same things in life as everyone else.

the drugs and violence that permeates the schools are poison. no respect for teachers, nor respect for authority in schools....who would want to teach or go to a school like that? schools don't fix those problems..parents do....when families broke down, the focus began shiting to kids...and without proper guidance spun out of control.

Right.

Working-class parents who instill academic achievement into their children can overcome property tax based school funding. Their aspirations, alone, can repair a broken public education system that's every bit as segregated as it was pre-Brown vs. The Board of Education.
:rolleyes:

Pioli Zombie
07-14-2009, 06:04 AM
"I can't figure this out" "make it plain, brother" "I will make it plain for you. That Korean m$otherfucker gets off the boat not one year ago and already he has a business"
"It must be because we are black". "I'm tired of that shit. I'm tired of that old excuse. You motherfuckers aren't going to do shit. But I know what I'm going to do. I'm gonna go over there and give that Korean motherfucker some more of my money and get me a Miller"
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mikey23545
07-14-2009, 06:13 AM
And Black people aren't as monolithic in their political ideas as you suggest.
We're represented all across the spectrum.

Barack Obama, who will be the nation’s first African-American president, won the largest share of white support of any Democrat in a two-man race since 1976 amid a backdrop of economic anxiety unseen in at least a quarter-century, according to exit polls by The Associated Press and the major television networks.

Obama became the first Democrat to also win a majority since Jimmy Carter with the near-unanimous backing of blacks and the overwhelming support of youth as well as significant inroads with white men and strong support among Hispanics and educated voters.

The Illinois senator won 43 percent of white voters, 4 percentage points below Carter’s performance in 1976 and equal to what Bill Clinton won in the three-man race of 1996. Republican John McCain won 55 percent of the white vote.

<b>Fully 96 percent of black voters supported Obama</b> and constituted 13 percent of the electorate, a 2-percentage-point rise in their national turnout. As in past years, black women turned out at a higher rate than black men.

stevieray
07-14-2009, 07:44 AM
Irishmen, Pols, and Germans who were able to function as a part of the White majority that was free from the wholesale discrimination that it often imposed on it's non-White counterparts? Immigrants who were afforded very basic freedoms that American-born Blacks were staved off from?

There is nothing at all comparable about the history of European immigrants versus that of African-American people born in this country.



This country is built on land-stealing and slave labor.
Those two things certainly scream "personal responsibility".
[/sarcasm]



Systemic disparities in the justice system supercede the judgment and or awareness of any one law enforcement official, attorney, or court of law. Systemic. "System" being the root word.



Find the nearest library and crack a book open.
Please... You'll be doing the both of us a favor.
You speak in such inaccurate absolutes about American history that it's a wonder you ever even took the course.sounds like you need to crack a book open yourself mic...you're blinded by hate.

stevieray
07-14-2009, 07:49 AM
Another denial of the very humanity of the African American parents you're casting these judgmental stones upon. Color me surprised.

God forbid that they could ever hold the same core values as their White counterparts dear to heart. No chance that they aspire to the very same things in life as everyone else.



Right.

Working-class parents who instill academic achievement into their children can overcome property tax based school funding. Their aspirations, alone, can repair a broken public education system that's every bit as segregated as it was pre-Brown vs. The Board of Education.
:rolleyes:

you're a bigot mic, you keep making excuses and are buliding strawmen for your argument. nobody ever said that other parents aren't held to the same standard.... I married into family that achieved more than I ever will, and they did it under circumstances you only complain about, but never lived....I think you don't want to really hear waht Jwhit is saying, becuase there is some truth to it....

by all means keep living in the past, thinking some magic fairy is going to come along and undo past mistakes.. I'm sure you've undone all of yours as well...

:rolleyes:

Brock
07-14-2009, 07:55 AM
Yeah, that "Blue Wall of Silence" is such the Black thing.
ROFL

Right, so black communities won't ALWAYS hold their own accountable, making what you said a load of BS.

stevieray
07-14-2009, 08:17 AM
Irishmen, Pols, and Germans who were able to function as a part of the White majority that was free from the wholesale discrimination that it often imposed on it's non-White counterparts? Immigrants who were afforded very basic freedoms that American-born Blacks were staved off from?

There is nothing at all comparable about the history of European immigrants versus that of African-American people born in this country.

.


True, a black man never got off a boat and had a rifle pushed in his hands and died for the Irish.

Tell me, mic does slavery still exist in Africa? when do the Africans who sold slaves come into play?

KC native
07-14-2009, 08:35 AM
you're a bigot mic, you keep making excuses and are buliding strawmen for your argument. nobody ever said that other parents aren't held to the same standard.... I married into family that achieved more than I ever will, and they did it under circumstances you only complain about, but never lived....I think you don't want to really hear waht Jwhit is saying, becuase there is some truth to it....

by all means keep living in the past, thinking some magic fairy is going to come along and undo past mistakes.. I'm sure you've undone all of yours as well...

:rolleyes:

True, a black man never got off a boat and had a rifle pushed in his hands and died for the Irish.

Tell me, mic does slavery still exist in Africa? when do the Africans who sold slaves come into play?

LMAO Speaking of strawmen.

Baby Lee
07-14-2009, 08:58 AM
I must've missed the poster who argued that the police ALWAYS hold their own accountable.

Black communities will ALWAYS hold their own accountable for their actions
No they don't
Well, neither do cops. BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE!!!!

Just Passin' By
07-14-2009, 09:10 AM
Certainly you have your hand on the pulse of the African American community.
:rolleyes:

Apparently more so than you, at least on this particular issue.

joesomebody
07-14-2009, 09:55 AM
He's definitely right about the fried chicken, Popeye's spicy is like crack to me. :drool:And those biscuits... Where the hell is a Popeye's around here? None in or around Columbia, that is for sure. We have KFC and Church's.

A Popeye's would do very well here in Columbia. So would a Jack in the Box probably.

Pioli Zombie
07-14-2009, 03:06 PM
Where is there a jack in the box around here?????????
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nstygma
07-14-2009, 08:43 PM
Where is there a jack in the box around here?????????
Posted via Mobile Devicethere's one in the st louis area. i'd love to have an in-n-out here though

Pioli Zombie
07-14-2009, 08:49 PM
"When you come into Sal's there is no music. No music. No music. No music "
"2 slices!..............and put some extra Moooozarella on those motherfuckers"
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