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View Full Version : Royals Halladay Named AL Starter


CaliforniaChief
07-13-2009, 09:40 AM
Screw Joe Maddon. He has chosen Roy Halladay to start for the American League and not Zack Greinke as the starter for tomorrow night's AS Game.

petegz28
07-13-2009, 09:49 AM
Total fuckjob

RJ
07-13-2009, 09:59 AM
Their stats are very close. Halladay gets the honor for Lifetime Achievement.

Mecca
07-13-2009, 10:00 AM
It's really not surprising considering how things have gone as of late.

alpha_omega
07-13-2009, 10:03 AM
Their stats are very close. Halladay gets the honor for Lifetime Achievement.

Yep....thats the way i see it.

CaliforniaChief
07-13-2009, 10:06 AM
They aren't equal at all. Greinke's 10 wins for the Royals have to be worth about 13 or 14 wins for a player on a good team.

RJ
07-13-2009, 10:09 AM
There's no extra credit given for playing on a bad team, unfortunately.

Mr. Krab
07-13-2009, 10:10 AM
Boooooooooooooooo

ChiTown
07-13-2009, 10:14 AM
Zach's 2-4 record with about a 3.90 era in his last 7 games didn't help matter's for him. He's been very human since his no decision game against the WhiteSux on May 31st.

Sure-Oz
07-13-2009, 10:15 AM
5 cgs and 2 sho's playing for the next to worst team in the league guess doesn't help

PunkinDrublic
07-13-2009, 10:18 AM
It doesn't suprise me. When the team loses players get overlooked. Teams that win get players in the all star game. Look at the Texas Rangers, they are in first place and they have 3 players playing in the game, it's questionable whether Josh Hamilton belongs this year but that's how it goes.

With that being said, no way should Halladay get the nod over Greinke. No way he comes close to Greinkes numbers if he plays on the Royals. It's bullshit but it's not suprising.

doomy3
07-13-2009, 10:18 AM
Halladay has been the better pitcher over the last several games. That didn't help Zack.

Deberg_1990
07-13-2009, 10:20 AM
Who cares. Halladay will be pulled after 2 innings and Zach will get his 2 or so.

Its not like Halladay hasnt earned it. Hes been a great pitcher for awhile now.

ChiTown
07-13-2009, 10:21 AM
Halladay has been the better pitcher over the last several games. That didn't help Zack.

Yep. Seriously, Zach hasn't been the dominant pitcher he was in the first 2 months of the season. He's still been our best pitcher and kept us in most every game, but not nearly the same guy that had 5 CG's and 2 ShO's in his first 11 starts.

PunkinDrublic
07-13-2009, 10:22 AM
Halladay has been the better pitcher over the last several games. That didn't help Zack.

Halladay wouldn't have his wins with our offense. Zach overall has been the better pitcher all season, but this is what happens when you lose like we do.

sedated
07-13-2009, 10:33 AM
I was looking forward to seeing how he deals with the pressure.

BWillie
07-13-2009, 10:46 AM
It's really not surprising considering how things have gone as of late.

Well you should be picked based on your season as a whole. Even then, a 3.95 era in the last month or so isn't something to hang your head about. There isn't one pitching stat line that Halladay is superior to Greinke to this season. They are even tied on wins, and Greinke plays for the Kansas City freaking Royals. Total screw job.

BigRedChief
07-13-2009, 11:11 AM
Who cares. Halladay will be pulled after 2 innings and Zach will get his 2 or so.

Its not like Halladay hasnt earned it. Hes been a great pitcher for awhile now.
Totally disagree. The Royals have had very little to stick their chests out and be proud of and Greinke certaintly qualifys to be a starter.

I wanted to see Grienke throw his best stuff against Pujols.

clyde05
07-13-2009, 11:51 AM
Well you should be picked based on your season as a whole. Even then, a 3.95 era in the last month or so isn't something to hang your head about. There isn't one pitching stat line that Halladay is superior to Greinke to this season. They are even tied on wins, and Greinke plays for the Kansas City freaking Royals. Total screw job.

totally agree with this, Greinke deserves it! The Rays just beat Halladay and im sure Maddon prob told him then he would make him starter. To have 10 wins on the Royals is awesome he should have at least 12 so this pick was total BS. Just like when pedroia couldnt go he should have picked kinsler because hes a 2b but had to go with his own guy in pena, not saying Pena doesnt deserve it but they needed a 2b.

Just Passin' By
07-13-2009, 11:59 AM
One could argue that Wakefield deserves it over either pitcher being pimped here. For that matter, Beckett could be argued, but he just won his 11th and would be unavailable anyway. This sort of "he was robbed" stuff happens every year, in pretty much every league's version of an 'All Star' ballot.

Reaper16
07-13-2009, 12:21 PM
Horseshit. Greinke's numbers are better, ergo he should start. There's no lifetime achievement in this shit, or there didn't used to be, anyway.

Deberg_1990
07-13-2009, 12:22 PM
Greinke certaintly qualifys to be a starter.



Well, so does Halladay. Either way, someone is going to get jobbed, thats just the way it is.

BigRock
07-13-2009, 12:40 PM
Halladay has been the better pitcher over the last several games. That didn't help Zack.

Halladay hasn't been better lately. Over the last 3-4 games, however many it's been since Halladay came off the DL, he has not been better than Zack. He's allowed more runs, walked more guys, and hasn't actually won since early June (against the ROYALS).

One could argue that Wakefield deserves it over either pitcher being pimped here.

What case, other than "he has one more win", would you make for Wakefield over Grenkie or Halladay?

Reaper16
07-13-2009, 01:09 PM
Halladay hasn't been better lately. Over the last 3-4 games, however many it's been since Halladay came off the DL, he has not been better than Zack. He's allowed more runs, walked more guys, and hasn't actually won since early June (against the ROYALS).



What case, other than "he has one more win", would you make for Wakefield over Grenkie or Halladay?
BigRock is in ur thread, refuting ur argumentz

Chocolate Hog
07-13-2009, 01:18 PM
Zack Greinke is overrated anyway

ChiTown
07-13-2009, 01:19 PM
Zack Greinke is overrated anyway

ROFL

stfu

Chocolate Hog
07-13-2009, 01:21 PM
ROFL

stfu

Look at how he's done since starting 8-0 or whatever. I understand the team hasn't won in 20 years but ya'll don't need to make shit up. Maybe if the fans would have accepted reality the team would have a different owner and would actually win some games.

Dartgod
07-13-2009, 01:22 PM
Zack Greinke is overrated anyway
He has 10 wins on this piece of shit team and he's overrated? OK d00d, whatever...

:bong:

Chocolate Hog
07-13-2009, 01:24 PM
He has 10 wins on this piece of shit team and he's overrated? OK d00d, whatever...

:bong:

He was 8-0 and they were in 1st place. Since then how good has he pitched moron

Chocolate Hog
07-13-2009, 01:25 PM
Jul 8 @ DET L 1-3 L 6.0 7 3 3 0 2 9 10 5 0 0 0 127.1 2.12
Jul 3 CHW L 0-5 L 6.0 9 4 2 1 1 6 10 4 0 0 0 121.1 2.00
Jun 28 @ PIT W 3-2 W 6.1 7 2 2 0 0 3 10 3 0 0 0 115.1 1.95
Jun 23 @ HOU W 2-1 W 8.0 8 1 1 0 0 5 9 3 0 0 0 109.0 1.90
Jun 17 ARI L 5-12 L 6.2 8 6 4 1 2 9 8 3 0 0 0 101.0 1.96
Jun 11 @ CLE L 3-4 - 7.1 6 3 3 0 3 6 8 2 0 0 0 94.1 1.72
Jun 5 @ TOR L 3-9 L 5.0 9 7 5 2 1 3 8 2 0 0 0 87.0 1.55
May 31 CHW L 4-7 - 7.0 8 4 3 0 0 7 8 1 0 0 0 82.0 1.10
May 26 DET W 6-1 W 9.0 6 1 1 0 0 8 8 1 0 0 0 75.0 0.84
May 21 CLE L 3-8 - 6.0 8 2 2 0 2 8 7 1 0 0 0 66.0 0.82



2-6 iz awesome! Yea Greinke! Dayton Moore woohooo!

Dartgod
07-13-2009, 01:27 PM
Arguing with morons is pointless. So have your fun dipshit.

Chocolate Hog
07-13-2009, 01:28 PM
Arguing with morons is pointless. So have your fun dipshit.

No stats to backup your argument just names? Nice.

thurman merman
07-13-2009, 01:29 PM
Halladay has been the better pitcher over the last several games. That didn't help Zack.

so? greinke was better over the first couple of months. we look at overall here, not small clusters.

thurman merman
07-13-2009, 01:30 PM
Yep. Seriously, Zach hasn't been the dominant pitcher he was in the first 2 months of the season.

of course he hasn't. nobody has. that was ridiculous.

thurman merman
07-13-2009, 01:30 PM
I wanted to see Grienke throw his best stuff against Pujols.

me too. especially since he didn't pitch in either series this year.

thurman merman
07-13-2009, 01:31 PM
absurd that halladay is starting over greinke. greinke is better in every major statistical category except losses, because he is on a terrible team. greinke would be 15-1 right now on a real team. he has allowed more than 4 runs ONE time this year.

if the fans were voting for the starting pitcher, that would make sense, because fans are stupid. but a major league manager should be smart enough to recognize the kind of season that greinke is having.

thurman merman
07-13-2009, 01:39 PM
Jul 8 @ DET L 1-3 L 6.0 7 3 3 0 2 9 10 5 0 0 0 127.1 2.12
Jul 3 CHW L 0-5 L 6.0 9 4 2 1 1 6 10 4 0 0 0 121.1 2.00
Jun 28 @ PIT W 3-2 W 6.1 7 2 2 0 0 3 10 3 0 0 0 115.1 1.95
Jun 23 @ HOU W 2-1 W 8.0 8 1 1 0 0 5 9 3 0 0 0 109.0 1.90
Jun 17 ARI L 5-12 L 6.2 8 6 4 1 2 9 8 3 0 0 0 101.0 1.96
Jun 11 @ CLE L 3-4 - 7.1 6 3 3 0 3 6 8 2 0 0 0 94.1 1.72
Jun 5 @ TOR L 3-9 L 5.0 9 7 5 2 1 3 8 2 0 0 0 87.0 1.55
May 31 CHW L 4-7 - 7.0 8 4 3 0 0 7 8 1 0 0 0 82.0 1.10
May 26 DET W 6-1 W 9.0 6 1 1 0 0 8 8 1 0 0 0 75.0 0.84
May 21 CLE L 3-8 - 6.0 8 2 2 0 2 8 7 1 0 0 0 66.0 0.82

2-6 iz awesome! Yea Greinke! Dayton Moore woohooo!

A. where are you getting 2-6? the royals are 3-7 in those 10 games. greinke's record during that span is 3-4.

B. all stars are chosen based on their performance all year, not in 10-game chunks.

C. greinke has a 3.48 ERA in the last 10 games. that is still very good. it's not as absurdly phenomenal as the beginning of the season, but it's still pretty damn good.

Dartgod
07-13-2009, 01:46 PM
A. where are you getting 2-6? the royals are 3-7 in those 10 games. greinke's record during that span is 3-4.

B. all stars are chosen based on their performance all year, not in 10-game chunks.

C. greinke has a 3.48 ERA in the last 10 games. that is still very good. it's not as absurdly phenomenal as the beginning of the season, but it's still pretty damn good.
Seriously, don't waste your time.

Anyone who can win 10 games on this team is not overrated and anyone who thinks he is, doesn't have a fucking clue what they're talking about.

Halfcan
07-13-2009, 03:00 PM
Zach's 2-4 record with about a 3.90 era in his last 7 games didn't help matter's for him. He's been very human since his no decision game against the WhiteSux on May 31st.

yep-but a couple of those he got 0 run support.

Oh well, let Pujols hit the first homer of him instead of Zach.

L.A. Chieffan
07-13-2009, 03:03 PM
greinke would be 15-1 right now on a real team.

send him this way then

POND_OF_RED
07-13-2009, 04:00 PM
Maybe if the fans would have accepted reality the team would have a different owner and would actually win some games.

:spock:I wasn't aware it was this simple. You mean all we have to do is complain about the team and our owner will fire himself? Thanks man. You're a genius.

Coach
07-13-2009, 04:59 PM
It's really not surprising considering how things have gone as of late.

Oh, go fuck yourself.

Greinke - 10 wins, 2.12 ERA, 5 CG, 2 SHO, 129 K, 1.076 WHIP, 204 ERA+

Halladay - 10 wins, 2.85 ERA, 3 CG, 1 SHO, 106 K, 1.098 WHIP, 151 ERA+

Seriously, if we're just gonna judge just because of the last 3-4 games, then that's just absurd. What the fuck ever happened to the previous 13 games? They don't matter either? The stats don't lie. Greinke > Halladay.

Reaper16
07-13-2009, 05:15 PM
Dan Haren has an argument for deserving the NL start, too.

BigRock
07-13-2009, 05:37 PM
Seriously, if we're just gonna judge just because of the last 3-4 games, then that's just absurd.

Here's their last 4* games:

Greinke: 2-2, 8 ER, 23 K, 3 BB, BA .307
Halladay: 1-2, 11 ER, 24 K, 5 BB, BA .304

(*for Halladay, that skips the start where he left injured and goes all the way back to June 7, when he pitched a complete game shutout against the mighty Royals offense.)

Apparently, though, it's all a moot point anyway:

Was watching BBTN and they made it clear Halladay was the no-brainer decision to start, except for an acknowledgement that maybe you could make a case for Josh Beckett. Then they talked about the great AL pitching staff and how it'd be so great to start Halladay for a few innings, then get an inning or two from Verlander and Felix and then bring in the likes of Nathan and Rivera.

So it seems Grenkie never even made the team.

Farzin
07-13-2009, 05:42 PM
Who cares? I don't even think Greinke cares. I remember him saying he wanted to bat. So he's probably happy with this. Hopefully they don't pinch hit him..

Sure-Oz
07-13-2009, 06:36 PM
Mecca is probably not surprised cause the royals suck and nothing goes right, i doubt it was a jab at ZG

Coach
07-13-2009, 06:38 PM
Dan Haren has an argument for deserving the NL start, too.

He should. His numbers is just bat shit insane.

The_Doctor10
07-13-2009, 06:47 PM
You guys are acting like Maddon up and gave the start to Josh Towers; he gave the nod to Roy Halladay, who's arguably been the best pitcher in baseball since 2002.

Grienke will get his shot, don't sweat it.

Dr. Facebook Fever
07-13-2009, 06:51 PM
Screw Joe Maddon. He has chosen Roy Halladay to start for the American League and not Zack Greinke as the starter for tomorrow night's AS Game.

I expected that I'm surprised anyone is surprised.

PunkinDrublic
07-13-2009, 06:53 PM
You guys are acting like Maddon up and gave the start to Josh Towers; he gave the nod to Roy Halladay, who's arguably been the best pitcher in baseball since 2002.

Grienke will get his shot, don't sweat it.

It's not supposed to be about stats since 02. You've been shown the evidence that Greinke has had better numbers this year which is what the selection should have been based off of. You filthy Canadians should just be happy we let you have a baseball team. JK:D

The_Doctor10
07-13-2009, 07:00 PM
It's not supposed to be about stats since 02. You've been shown the evidence that Greinke has had better numbers this year which is what the selection should have been based off of. You filthy Canadians should just be happy we let you have a baseball team. JK:D

Trust me, if you took the Jays, 90% of the country, and 75% of Toronto itself wouldn't give a flying fuck :P. We were all Expos fans. In fact, I'd wager the majority of the country would've preferred you moved the Jays to Washington instead of the Expos.

Though consider this: in their one head to head meeting of the year, Greinke got lit up, and Halladay took him to school, for whatever that's worth.

DJJasonp
07-13-2009, 07:05 PM
The only thing I'll be pissed about is if Zack only gets 1 inning. That would be a major slap in the face to the organizations only all-star (considering his stats as well).

This mini-break for Zack is going to help...skipped his start Sunday...maybe only 2 innings tomorrow night....then back to it Thursday.

Hillman did his best to ruin Zack in the first month of the season by allowing him to pitch way too many innings. Unfortunately for the Royals (for many reasons) it's not a 2 month season.

Sure-Oz
07-13-2009, 07:21 PM
Now erin andrews is interviewing roy

thurman merman
07-13-2009, 08:24 PM
You guys are acting like Maddon up and gave the start to Josh Towers; he gave the nod to Roy Halladay, who's arguably been the best pitcher in baseball since 2002.

Grienke will get his shot, don't sweat it.

i want to see him pitch to pujols. there's not guarantee pujols will still be in the game when greinke pitches.

Reaper16
07-13-2009, 11:34 PM
Trust me, if you took the Jays, 90% of the country, and 75% of Toronto itself wouldn't give a flying fuck :P. We were all Expos fans. In fact, I'd wager the majority of the country would've preferred you moved the Jays to Washington instead of the Expos.

Though consider this: in their one head to head meeting of the year, Greinke got lit up, and Halladay took him to school, for whatever that's worth.
You were all Expos fans despite Toronto winning back-to-back championships in the early nineties? Odd.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 12:19 AM
Halladay has been ****ed over many times before by AL managers. I feel bad for you.

But really, it's not that big of a deal. Greinke is still going to get his 1-2 innings on a big stage.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 12:24 AM
Halladay hasn't been better lately. Over the last 3-4 games, however many it's been since Halladay came off the DL, he has not been better than Zack. He's allowed more runs, walked more guys, and hasn't actually won since early June (against the ROYALS).

He's had 3 games since coming off the DL, and they were against the 2 best offenses in baseball (Tampa and New York). Not that surprising that he's lost those games or struggled.

I really think Maddon made the decision as more of a Lifetime Achievement thing.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 12:31 AM
It's not supposed to be about stats since 02. You've been shown the evidence that Greinke has had better numbers this year which is what the selection should have been based off of. You filthy Canadians should just be happy we let you have a baseball team. JK:D

It all depends on what your opinion of the AS game is. Some argue that a half season of statistics shouldn't determine who goes to the game (this method results sometimes in mediocre players who went on a hot streak getting into the game over more proven stars). Obviously not saying that's the case with Greinke.

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 12:32 AM
It all depends on what your opinion of the AS game is. Some argue that a half season of statistics shouldn't determine who goes to the game (this method results sometimes in mediocre players who went on a hot streak getting into the game over more proven stars). Obviously not saying that's the case with Greinke.
Some argue incorrectly, then.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 12:32 AM
Trust me, if you took the Jays, 90% of the country, and 75% of Toronto itself wouldn't give a flying **** :P. We were all Expos fans. In fact, I'd wager the majority of the country would've preferred you moved the Jays to Washington instead of the Expos.

You live in Calgary. What the hell do you know about Toronto and their fans?

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 12:35 AM
Some argue incorrectly, then.
There is no incorrect answer to the question. It's an opinion.

Another question, though... do we just take out the 2nd half of last season when deciding this shit, then? Does that never become part of the equation for determining an "All-Star?"

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 12:35 AM
Now erin andrews is interviewing roy

And asking him questions about being traded. Yeah, that was so enjoyable for Jays fans.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 12:37 AM
You were all Expos fans despite Toronto winning back-to-back championships in the early nineties? Odd.
Many people in Canada outside Toronto don't like Toronto.

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 12:42 AM
There is no incorrect answer to the question. It's an opinion.

Another question, though... do we just take out the 2nd half of last season when deciding this shit, then? Does that never become part of the equation for determining an "All-Star?"
Um. Yeah, duh.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 12:47 AM
Um. Yeah, duh.
Uhh...you do realize that Maddon made his decision on something more than the 1st half of this season, right?

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 12:00 PM
Uhh...you do realize that Maddon made his decision on something more than the 1st half of this season, right?
Yes, I do. He's dead wrong about it, too.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 07:42 PM
Yes, I do. He's dead wrong about it, too.
He isn't, because there is no such thing as right and wrong in this case.

Is there really a reason to whine about such a meaningless thing, anyway? Nobody remembers who starts these games.

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 07:45 PM
He isn't, because there is no such thing as right and wrong in this case.

Is there really a reason to whine about such a meaningless thing, anyway? Nobody remembers who starts these games.
I do, for the most part.

But there is a right way... its the way that every manager for the last bunch of years has done it. The best pitcher for the first half of the season gets the start. That's why Cliff Lee got the start last year, its why Dan Haren got the start two years ago, etc.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 07:47 PM
I do, for the most part.

Really? I honestly had no idea David Wells was the last Jay to start one when I read it the other day. And then I got to thinking that I couldn't really remember any of the All-Star starters over the last 10 years...it's really the Cy Young award winners each year that are in my consciousness.


But there is a right way... its the way that every manager for the last bunch of years has done it. The best pitcher for the first half of the season gets the start. That's why Cliff Lee got the start last year, its why Dan Haren got the start two years ago, etc.
That isn't the right way. It's just the way that some managers have done it.

irishjayhawk
07-14-2009, 07:55 PM
And it backfires. 1-2-3 for Grienke in rare form. And Halladay gives up 3.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 08:00 PM
And it backfires. 1-2-3 for Grienke in rare form. And Halladay gives up 3.
And by next year's All-Star game, nobody will even remember or care.

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 08:03 PM
And by next year's All-Star game, nobody will even remember or care.
Well, you won't. But you're a bad baseball fan.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 08:11 PM
Well, you won't. But you're a bad baseball fan.
Yeah, because I'm sure you can name all the All-Star starters over the past 5 years without cheating. They don't remain in our consciousness for a reason (that reason being obvious, it's meaningless what somebody's stats are at the halfway point of a season).

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 08:15 PM
I can name the AL ones for sure:
Halladay, Lee, Haren, Rogers, Buehrle

The NL ones, I think were:
Lincecum, Sheets, Peavey, Webb, Carpenter

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 08:21 PM
Man, you could have looked that shit up so easily. I had totally forgotten about Kenny Rogers starting that game after Halladay got hit by the line drive. And the NL starters? Fuck, I had no idea Sheets even started last year.

Cy Young awards actually mean something, people remember them (even though the BBWAA is a fucked up organization that decides it primarily on wins).

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 08:24 PM
Man, you could have looked that shit up so easily. I had totally forgotten about Kenny Rogers starting that game after Halladay got hit by the line drive. And the NL starters? Fuck, I had no idea Sheets even started last year.

Cy Young awards actually mean something, people remember them (even though the BBWAA is a fucked up organization that decides it primarily on wins).
I got one wrong. Webb didn't start for the NL in 2006, Brad Penny did. I remember the HR Vlad hit off of Penny in that game, but I guess I didn't think that Penny was the starter.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 08:26 PM
I got one wrong. Webb didn't start for the NL in 2006, Brad Penny did. I remember the HR Vlad hit off of Penny in that game, but I guess I didn't think that Penny was the starter.
Penny was throwing like 99 that game. That's what I remember about it. Though I didn't remember that he started.