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journeyscarab
07-14-2009, 12:23 PM
http://chiefsblog.kansascity.com/?q=node/855

By KENT BABB
The Kansas City Star

Kansas City has the player it sees as a potential franchise quarterback, and now the Chiefs have Matt Cassel locked into a long-term deal.

The Chiefs have signed Cassel to a multi-year contract, a source told The Star on Tuesday. Terms of the deal have not been released, although the team is expected to announce the deal today.

Kansas City acquired the 27-year-old Cassel in March when it traded this year’s second-round draft pick to New England. The Chiefs also acquired linebacker Mike Vrabel in that deal.

Cassel had signed a one-year, guaranteed contract earlier this year with New England – the Patriots tagged the quarterback their franchise player before the trade – that would have paid him upward of $15 million for the 2009 season.

Cassel, a seventh-round draft pick in 2005, took over in Week 1 last season for the injured Tom Brady after the former NFL MVP suffered a season-ending knee injury. Cassel started 15 games, and New England won 11 contests in 2008.

seclark
07-14-2009, 12:25 PM
anyone know anything about this guy?
sec

DeezNutz
07-14-2009, 12:25 PM
There went that conspiracy theory.

Big risk. Hope Pioli is right.

KC native
07-14-2009, 12:26 PM
There goes the Pioli is patient and wants to see what he has theory.

Fish
07-14-2009, 12:27 PM
Doomed.

JD10367
07-14-2009, 12:27 PM
I dunno. At first I thought it was imperative that the Chiefs sign Cassel long term right away. However, as the months have passed and the economy has tanked, I started liking more and more the idea that the Chiefs should just pay him for one year and see what he's got. If he'd proved to be the real deal, they could then offer him the big bucks. If he didn't prove to be the real deal, they could cut their losses and let him go. And, as a lot of people are thinking, if Cassel only has a so-so year due to the new schemes and the talent level around him, the Chiefs could've lowballed Cassel and said, "Well, gee, you didn't do really great, so howzabout we offer you a few mill per season"?

dirk digler
07-14-2009, 12:28 PM
I hope he is everything that Pioli thinks he is

DeezNutz
07-14-2009, 12:28 PM
We're still not sure that he's the starter.

JD10367
07-14-2009, 12:29 PM
Of course, it all depends on what the contract is. If they managed to talk him into a reasonable contract, that's different. Gotta see the numbers.

dirk digler
07-14-2009, 12:29 PM
We're still not sure that he's the starter.

I think this deal seals it.

JD10367
07-14-2009, 12:29 PM
We're still not sure that he's the starter.

Apparently they're sure, LOL.

Chiefnj2
07-14-2009, 12:30 PM
Does this mean they won't go after Sanchez?

CoMoChief
07-14-2009, 12:31 PM
What are we as far as the cap now? Still $30M + ?!?!

KCUnited
07-14-2009, 12:31 PM
McDaniels on suicide watch.

DeezNutz
07-14-2009, 12:32 PM
I think this deal seals it.

Silence! /Pioli/

dirk digler
07-14-2009, 12:32 PM
Does this mean they won't go after Sanchez?

This is just a prelude to the big trade. be patient

kstater
07-14-2009, 12:32 PM
How come the article didn't come from WPI?

JD10367
07-14-2009, 12:32 PM
McDaniels on suicide watch.

Or, in the opposite direction, a sign-and-trade, LOL.

DeezNutz
07-14-2009, 12:32 PM
How come the article didn't come from WPI?

We knew 2 weeks ago. /GoChiefs/

Mr. Krab
07-14-2009, 12:32 PM
I would of rather waited.

The Bad Guy
07-14-2009, 12:33 PM
That's strike 4 /hamas jenkins</HAMAS jenkins>.

Stinger
07-14-2009, 12:34 PM
Camp Fodder...........

booyaf2
07-14-2009, 12:35 PM
Print Em
This thread is worthless without pics.

MTG#10
07-14-2009, 12:36 PM
NTTAWWT

JD10367
07-14-2009, 12:37 PM
I'm visualizing the Cuba Gooding Jr. and Tom Cruise scene. "Show me the moneeeeeeey!"

GoHuge
07-14-2009, 12:37 PM
Stupid. Sure the franchise tag was alot of money, but it wasn't keeping the Chiefs from signing players or pushing them to the cap limit. Why not see if the guy can do it when he's not surrounded by a team that went 18-1 the previous year? If he had it you could sign him in season or directly after. Now if he doesn't get it done your stuck with another shitty contract. Just a risk that didn't need to be taken at this point IMO.

Dayze
07-14-2009, 12:38 PM
Pioli went 'all-in'.

Hope he's right; willing to give him the benefit of the doubt after 20+ years of a Cluster F at this position (sans the Green years)

Dayze
07-14-2009, 12:39 PM
I'm visualizing the Cuba Gooding Jr. and Tom Cruise scene. "Show me the moneeeeeeey!"

"I'm your mother F*cker"!!!!!

The Bad Guy
07-14-2009, 12:40 PM
"I'm your mother F*cker"!!!!!

"I love WHITE people!!!"

JD10367
07-14-2009, 12:40 PM
Stupid. Sure the franchise tag was alot of money, but it wasn't keeping the Chiefs from signing players or pushing them to the cap limit. Why not see if the guy can do it when he's not surrounded by a team that went 18-1 the previous year? If he had it you could sign him in season or directly after. Now if he doesn't get it done your stuck with another shitty contract. Just a risk that didn't need to be taken at this point IMO.

I agree. But it also depends on what the contract turns out to be.

chiefbowe82
07-14-2009, 12:40 PM
antifreeze

talastan
07-14-2009, 12:41 PM
McDaniels on suicide watch.

Just Reporting: Apparently a suicide attempt was thwarted by police at Invesco Field today. A young man, believed to be Broncos HC, Josh McDaniels, attempted to jump off of the upper concourse in an attempt to kill himself upon recieving the news Chiefs QB Cassel had signed a long term contract. It can't be confirmed as of yet, but it was believed he was repeatedly mouthing, "Stuck with the neck-beard, stuck with the neck-beard..." over and over. Security grabbed him before he could jump and he is under protective custody right now. :D

Hey KnowMo......How does the neck-beard taste? Hope your donkeys enjoy him for years to come!!

Stinger
07-14-2009, 12:41 PM
To The Andrea Doria!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DeezNutz
07-14-2009, 12:41 PM
THE DEEL IS DUN111 /Nick Athan/

JD10367
07-14-2009, 12:44 PM
Just Reporting: Apparently a suicide attempt was thwarted by police at Invesco Field today. A young man, believed to be Broncos HC, Josh McDaniels, attempted to jump off of the upper concourse in an attempt to kill himself upon recieving the news Chiefs QB Cassel had signed a long term contract. It can't be confirmed as of yet, but it was believed he was repeatedly mouthing, "Stuck with the neck-beard, stuck with the neck-beard..." over and over. Security grabbed him before he could jump and he is under protective custody right now. :D

Hey KnowMo......How does the neck-beard taste? Hope your donkeys enjoy him for years to come!!

CNN--In a stunning and bizarre move, the NFL announced that Denver head coach Josh McDaniels traded the entire roster to Kansas City for newly-signed quarterback Matt Cassel. "We got a special exemption from the NFL to bring 200 players to camp," Chiefs coach Haley was quoted at the press conference. "It's gonna take a while to sort it all out. But Scott (Pioli) and I figured, hey, it looked like both the Chiefs and Broncos might be mediocre, so if we could put 'em together we should be able to field a great team, no?"

Basileus777
07-14-2009, 12:45 PM
Considering the salary cap is largely irrelevant and we don't exactly have a lot of home grown studs needing to be resigned soon, the only thing being risked is Clark Hunt's cash.

Dayze
07-14-2009, 12:46 PM
I think it's simple, really.

Pioli met with him in his best Tony Soprano persona and told him "Maybeee ya-oudda take 'dis deal, eh?.....All right. Dats a good kid"

wild1
07-14-2009, 12:47 PM
Source - 6 years, $36 million guaranteed

The Bad Guy
07-14-2009, 12:47 PM
Trust in Pioli.

BigChiefFan
07-14-2009, 12:47 PM
I take this as Cassell is doing everything asked of him. Nice move.

The Bad Guy
07-14-2009, 12:48 PM
Source - 6 years, $36 million guaranteed

I can't imagine it's that much guaranteed. Those are the same numbers Mike Lombardi was reporting in April.

wild1
07-14-2009, 12:48 PM
We knew 2 weeks ago. /GoChiefs/

Anyone would have put it together if they had common sense that the deal was forthcoming. July 15 is the last day to sign franchise players to extensions

Stinger
07-14-2009, 12:48 PM
CNN--In a stunning and bizarre move, the NFL announced that Denver head coach Josh McDaniels traded the entire roster to Kansas City for newly-signed quarterback Matt Cassel. "We got a special exemption from the NFL to bring 200 players to camp," Chiefs coach Haley was quoted at the press conference. "It's gonna take a while to sort it all out. But Scott (Pioli) and I figured, hey, it looked like both the Chiefs and Broncos might be mediocre, so if we could put 'em together we should be able to field a great team, no?"


WTH would we do with 75 running backs?

keg in kc
07-14-2009, 12:49 PM
Interesting.

Brock
07-14-2009, 12:49 PM
Another story broken by not WPI!! Only 99.99 per year!!

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 12:50 PM
Good. It made no sense to have the guy unsigned.

Bowser
07-14-2009, 12:50 PM
I'll trust that Pioli and Haley know what they are doing and like what they've seen, since the kid has been there everyday of the offseason. I know a guy that knows a guy (yeah, I know) that works with the team out at Arrowhead that has said Cassell is head and shoulders above both Croyle and Thigpen, and I'm pretty sure that's not breaking news.

BigMeatballDave
07-14-2009, 12:52 PM
That's strike 4 /hamas jenkins</HAMAS jenkins>.
ROFL

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 12:54 PM
I know a guy that knows a guy (yeah, I know) that works with the team out at Arrowhead that has said Cassell is head and shoulders above both Croyle and Thigpen, and I'm pretty sure that's not breaking news.
Nor is it even complimentary.

BigMeatballDave
07-14-2009, 12:55 PM
What are we as far as the cap now? Still $30M + ?!?!Who cares? There is no cap next year.

Blindside58
07-14-2009, 12:56 PM
What are we as far as the cap now? Still $30M + ?!?!

I'll Bet it freed up more money this year. Hell, We are probably $40M under now

Bowser
07-14-2009, 12:57 PM
Nor is it even complimentary.

Heh, touche.

Sofa King
07-14-2009, 01:09 PM
who's Matt Cassell?

Mr. Arrowhead
07-14-2009, 01:09 PM
to the ship!!

L.A. Chieffan
07-14-2009, 01:09 PM
fuck, i thought thiggy was our man this year

Bowser
07-14-2009, 01:11 PM
who's Matt Cassell?

He's the subject of Josh McDaniels' wet dreams.

Sofa King
07-14-2009, 01:11 PM
meh, Carl could've signed him cheaper...

DTLB58
07-14-2009, 01:16 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/07/14/big-money-for-cassel/

Posted by Mike Florio on July 14, 2009 1:55 PM
The April report from Michael Lombardi of NFP regarding quarterback Matt Cassel's long-term deal indicated that Cassel would receive $36 million guaranteed on a six-year deal.

Though we are coming up empty via traditional efforts to determine details regarding Cassel's deal, we currently believe that it's indeed a six-year package, with a base value in excess of $60 million.
That's more than the six-year deal Tom Brady signed with the Patriots in 2005, which further confirms that he's one of the most underpaid players in the NFL.

We also believe that the three-year take, one of the key factors in determining the value of a contract, is more than $42 million.

Both the team and the agent, David Dunn, likely will be disclosing no details about the contract, in keeping with the whole "nothing good comes from saying anything" philosophy that G.M. Scott Pioli brought with him from New England.

Once the contract is officially filed with the NFLPA, however, the full numbers will be leaked.

And the precise comparisons to Brady's deal undoubtedly will follow.

Von Dumbass
07-14-2009, 01:16 PM
Source - 6 years, $36 million guaranteed
:eek:

Ben Roethlisburger only got $34 million guaranteed.

Haynesworth got $41 million guaranteed.

I guess it was smart to get the contract done before Eli Manning and Philip Rivers get their new contract extensions.

L.A. Chieffan
07-14-2009, 01:18 PM
balla

DaFace
07-14-2009, 01:19 PM
I'm holding judgment until we know the details. Until that comes out, this doesn't really mean much.

BigMeatballDave
07-14-2009, 01:19 PM
:eek:

Ben Roethlisburger only got $34 million guaranteed.

Haynesworth got $41 million guaranteed.

I guess it was smart to get the contract done before Eli Manning and Philip Rivers get their new contract extensions.He's not getting 36 mil in guarantees.

wild1
07-14-2009, 01:20 PM
:eek:

Ben Roethlisburger only got $34 million guaranteed.

Haynesworth got $41 million guaranteed.

I guess it was smart to get the contract done before Eli Manning and Philip Rivers get their new contract extensions.

Ben's is for 8 years, and over $100 million in total.

Chiefnj2
07-14-2009, 01:26 PM
Just to clarify - as of now, nobody knows the value. Florio referred to the earlier incorrect NFP post regarding the value of the contract. There is no reason to believe the NFP post from April is correct.

kc rush
07-14-2009, 01:27 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/07/14/big-money-for-cassel/

Posted by Mike Florio on July 14, 2009 1:55 PM
The April report from Michael Lombardi of NFP regarding quarterback Matt Cassel's long-term deal indicated that Cassel would receive $36 million guaranteed on a six-year deal.

Though we are coming up empty via traditional efforts to determine details regarding Cassel's deal, we currently believe that it's indeed a six-year package, with a base value in excess of $60 million.
That's more than the six-year deal Tom Brady signed with the Patriots in 2005, which further confirms that he's one of the most underpaid players in the NFL.

We also believe that the three-year take, one of the key factors in determining the value of a contract, is more than $42 million.

Both the team and the agent, David Dunn, likely will be disclosing no details about the contract, in keeping with the whole "nothing good comes from saying anything" philosophy that G.M. Scott Pioli brought with him from New England.

Once the contract is officially filed with the NFLPA, however, the full numbers will be leaked.

And the precise comparisons to Brady's deal undoubtedly will follow.

We're tied to him now for better or worse. I hope he turns into something more than what I saw last year. Granted, anything is better than what we've seen out there under Herm.

BarrySPAMAID
07-14-2009, 01:27 PM
Well, now that it looks like Matt Cassel has been signed, I say it's about HIGH TIME for ALL of us to GET BEHIND HIM!! This is your quarterback. Allow me to serve you a glass, of CASSELBARRY, Drink UP!!! & GO CHIEFS!!!
88176

Shaid
07-14-2009, 01:27 PM
I was hoping for a wait but Pioli did see him up close and personal all last year. He thinks pretty highly of him obviously. It was also very much in Cassel's best interest to sign now because of possible injury, etc. which hopefully drove the price down some. If Cassel came in and lit it up, the contract would probably have been a lot bigger because Cassel would have had leverage.

Think of it this way, what if Carl would have signed Jarad Allen to a long term deal rather than waiting for him to become the Sack Leader? We'd have gotten him signed to a great deal and wouldn't have been so inept last year on defense.

kc rush
07-14-2009, 01:29 PM
CNN--In a stunning and bizarre move, the NFL announced that Denver head coach Josh McDaniels traded the entire roster to Kansas City for newly-signed quarterback Matt Cassel. "We got a special exemption from the NFL to bring 200 players to camp," Chiefs coach Haley was quoted at the press conference. "It's gonna take a while to sort it all out. But Scott (Pioli) and I figured, hey, it looked like both the Chiefs and Broncos might be mediocre, so if we could put 'em together we should be able to field a great team, no?"

Sweet, that means we get Orton. Listening to donk trolls, he is the second coming of Elway.

Von Dumbass
07-14-2009, 01:30 PM
ESPN just said sources told John Clayton that the deal is for 6 years and it will pay Cassel close to 10 Million bucks a season.

L.A. Chieffan
07-14-2009, 01:34 PM
whatever it is, pollard should get 12 1/2 percent

KCtotheSB
07-14-2009, 01:36 PM
Well, it was gonna happen sometime.....Cassel gets signed long-term.
I would have preferred to see it later on after viewing Cassel lead the offense a game or five.....

As of right now, I have a feeling that this is either going to be very good or very bad. Like most of the moves this offseason, I'm just going to have to trust that Pioli knows what the fuck he's doing.

Dayze
07-14-2009, 01:39 PM
whatever it is, pollard should get 12 1/2 percent

ROFL

MoreLemonPledge
07-14-2009, 01:44 PM
Now I don't feel so bad for buying my Cassel jersey.

Hog Farmer
07-14-2009, 01:45 PM
Stupid. Sure the franchise tag was alot of money, but it wasn't keeping the Chiefs from signing players or pushing them to the cap limit. Why not see if the guy can do it when he's not surrounded by a team that went 18-1 the previous year? If he had it you could sign him in season or directly after. Now if he doesn't get it done your stuck with another shitty contract. Just a risk that didn't need to be taken at this point IMO.


I think Pioli knows Cassel better than anyone as he was with him ALL of last year.

Mr. Arrowhead
07-14-2009, 01:46 PM
whatever it is, pollard should get 12 1/2 percent
LMAO

the Talking Can
07-14-2009, 01:47 PM
As of right now, I have a feeling that this is either going to be very good or very bad.


i've had this theory for years that if you flip a coin it will be either heads or tails....

Mr. Arrowhead
07-14-2009, 01:47 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4327067

Chiefs lock up Cassel
Comment Email Print Share
By John Clayton
ESPN.com
Archive

Matt Cassel, a career backup in college and in the pros, parlayed a great 2008 season into a lucrative franchise tag. Now, he's locked himself into a deal to be the long-term quarterback of the Kansas City Chiefs.

Matt Cassel

Cassel

Cassel and the Chiefs worked out a six-year deal that will pay him in excess of $10 million a season, according to a source. The contract will keep Cassel with the Chiefs until 2014. The team is expected to make an announcement Tuesday afternoon.

The deal is for $63 million, with $28 million guaranteed, according to a source. He's going to make $40.5 million in the first three years of his contract.

Cassel was designated as the New England Patriots' franchise player in February and signed a one-year deal that paid him $14.561 million. He was then traded to the Chiefs along with linebacker Mike Vrabel for a second-round draft choice.

The Kansas City Star first reported that Cassel had signed with the Chiefs.

Although Wednesday is the deadline for franchise players to get long-term deals, Cassel technically doesn't apply because he was traded and the team that franchised him no longer holds his rights. Still, the deadline and the start of training camp in two weeks provided both sides with incentive to lock up a long-term relationship.

Cassel replaced an injured Tom Brady in the first week of the 2008 season and threw for 3,693 yards and 21 touchdowns.

Former Patriots GM Scott Pioli, who was responsible for drafting Cassel in the seventh round in 2005, went to the Chiefs during the offseason. One of his first priorities was finding a quarterback and Cassel was his top choice.

Cassel is believed to be the only quarterback in NFL history to start an NFL game without starting a game in college. Cassel was a backup at USC.

John Clayton is a senior writer for ESPN.com.

Mr. Arrowhead
07-14-2009, 01:48 PM
6 year 63 million with 28 million guaranteed

ferrarispider95
07-14-2009, 01:53 PM
6 year 63 million with 28 million guaranteed

you got to be kidding me :eek:

should have just let him play out his franchise year to see if he was a one and done

L.A. Chieffan
07-14-2009, 01:55 PM
its really not that surprising. why do you think we got this guy, for shits and giggles?

ChiTown
07-14-2009, 01:57 PM
you got to be kidding me :eek:

should have just let him play out his franchise year to see if he was a one and done

Not that big a deal to me. If these guys think, HE'S THE MAN, and he turns out to be, THE MAN, that'll be a bargain.

In Pioli I Trust

the Talking Can
07-14-2009, 01:57 PM
28 mill guaranteed over 6 years for a starting QB doesn't sound that scary to me...

MoreLemonPledge
07-14-2009, 02:00 PM
28 mill guaranteed over 6 years for a starting QB doesn't sound that scary to me...

I agree. Asking prices for QBs now are ridiculous. I'd rather spend this money on somebody who's actually played a down in the NFL than a draft pick.

Tribal Warfare
07-14-2009, 02:01 PM
6 year 63 million with 28 million guaranteed

link please

Slainte
07-14-2009, 02:02 PM
Hope he's worth it. He's the long-term QB now. Time to get behind him

dirk digler
07-14-2009, 02:03 PM
We knew 2 weeks ago. /GoChiefs/

:LOL:

MoreLemonPledge
07-14-2009, 02:04 PM
link please

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/HeadLines.aspx?sport=NFL&hl=145903

talastan
07-14-2009, 02:05 PM
Well now lets get our draft picks signed and we are good to go for Training Camp!! I too hoped that we'd wait to see if Cassel was the real deal, but In Pioli I trust. Plus as was mentioned earlier, with Manning and Rivers' contracts coming up who knows if Cassel did well how much we'd have to pay next year.

Mr. Arrowhead
07-14-2009, 02:08 PM
link please
its in the espn article i posted

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4327067

Sofa King
07-14-2009, 02:09 PM
I agree. Asking prices for QBs now are ridiculous. I'd rather spend this money on somebody who's actually played a down in the NFL than a draft pick.

i agree as well... good contract for both sides..

Mr. Arrowhead
07-14-2009, 02:09 PM
28 mill guaranteed over 6 years for a starting QB doesn't sound that scary to me...
yup agreed, especially considering what unproven rookie qbs have been getting, its a bargin

MagicHef
07-14-2009, 02:11 PM
28 mill guaranteed over 6 years for a starting QB doesn't sound that scary to me...

If he stays in KC for 3 years, it's $40.5 million.

Shaid
07-14-2009, 02:11 PM
6 year 63 million with 28 million guaranteed

I don't think this is too bad considering he was going to make 15 million this year no matter what happened.

Does 5 years, 48 million, with 13 million guaranteed sound like a good deal? That's basically what Pioli signed him for.

Mr. Arrowhead
07-14-2009, 02:12 PM
If he stays in KC for 3 years, it's $40.5 million.

all of that is not guaranteed

Ebolapox
07-14-2009, 02:13 PM
I'll trust that Pioli and Haley know what they are doing and like what they've seen, since the kid has been there everyday of the offseason. I know a guy that knows a guy (yeah, I know) that works with the team out at Arrowhead that has said Cassell is head and shoulders above both Croyle and Thigpen, and I'm pretty sure that's not breaking news.

croyle and thiggy ARE rather short for qbs, aren't they? I mean, cassel IS 6'5.

MagicHef
07-14-2009, 02:13 PM
all of that is not guaranteed

If he plays 3 years, he's getting that much, whether it's guaranteed money or not.

Ebolapox
07-14-2009, 02:15 PM
Well, now that it looks like Matt Cassel has been signed, I say it's about HIGH TIME for ALL of us to GET BEHIND HIM!! This is your quarterback. Allow me to serve you a glass, of CASSELBARRY, Drink UP!!! & GO CHIEFS!!!
88176

STFU, nUb.

The Bad Guy
07-14-2009, 02:16 PM
So basically he's getting 13 million and some change guaranteed over 5 years if you factor in the franchise tag and what he would be playing under for that.

Not bad.

The Rick
07-14-2009, 02:16 PM
I don't think this is too bad considering he was going to make 15 million this year no matter what happened.

Does 5 years, 48 million, with 13 million guaranteed sound like a good deal? That's basically what Pioli signed him for.
Great way of looking at it, IMO...

Der Flöprer
07-14-2009, 02:17 PM
you got to be kidding me :eek:

should have just let him play out his franchise year to see if he was a one and done

That's really not that much money for a starting qb. Really though, you're talking about paying him out now while we can afford it, and we're getting a discount on this season. I think it's a great deal for the Chiefs to sign a guy that they believe will be their starter for a long time to come.

Der Flöprer
07-14-2009, 02:17 PM
I don't think this is too bad considering he was going to make 15 million this year no matter what happened.

Does 5 years, 48 million, with 13 million guaranteed sound like a good deal? That's basically what Pioli signed him for.

Exactly.

Ebolapox
07-14-2009, 02:17 PM
i've had this theory for years that if you flip a coin it will be either heads or tails....

theoretically (though VERY unlikely), it could land and stay on its edge.

the Talking Can
07-14-2009, 02:19 PM
If he stays in KC for 3 years, it's $40.5 million.

yes, i can read


....but the only thing that matters is the guaranteed money, and even if he flops this isn't a contract that is going to kill us given our cap and the ever growing nfl salary cap...

Dayze
07-14-2009, 02:22 PM
Some of these comments crack me up.

We finally shell out cash for a starting/proven QB (granted, 1 years worth of starting) who’s not 32 yrs old etc and the sky is falling.

Every signing has risk; but as others have said I’d rather shell out this money on him than a rookie who won’t see the field until year 2 of his contract.


QBs who aren’t turds or cast-offs require $$$. We’ve been spoiled making chicken salad out of chicken sh*(t for years); with castoffs and never-has-beens who cam in here and were ‘fairly ‘ productive.

Time to sack up and pay to play like the big boys. And do so by spending $$ on the most important position; not dumping $$ away on a disgruntled/no-blockin’/high-mileage RB and aging TE.

the Talking Can
07-14-2009, 02:22 PM
i'm figuring with the 40 mill over three years that we still are saving 1-2 mill on our cap this year, no?

like we need it...ROFL

dirk digler
07-14-2009, 02:23 PM
I don't think this is too bad considering he was going to make 15 million this year no matter what happened.

Does 5 years, 48 million, with 13 million guaranteed sound like a good deal? That's basically what Pioli signed him for.

Dirt cheap for a QB.

Dayze
07-14-2009, 02:25 PM
Dirt cheap for a QB.

Yep.

JD10367
07-14-2009, 02:27 PM
We're tied to him now for better or worse. I hope he turns into something more than what I saw last year. Granted, anything is better than what we've seen out there under Herm.

:spock: He had better numbers than Ben Roethlisberger. (Yeah, yeah, I know, he was also on a talented team, but still... what you saw of Cassel was pretty good...)

wild1
07-14-2009, 02:28 PM
I am just happy that the team has a young franchise QB who is locked up long term.

When was the last time we could say that?

L.A. Chieffan
07-14-2009, 02:29 PM
:spock: He had better numbers than Ben Roethlisberger. (Yeah, yeah, I know, he was also on a talented team, but still... what you saw of Cassel was pretty good...)

i could chuck it up in the pats o and make like 6 mil a year. easy.

KCtotheSB
07-14-2009, 02:30 PM
i've had this theory for years that if you flip a coin it will be either heads or tails....

If you sail far enough, you'll fall off the edge of the world.

Messier
07-14-2009, 02:34 PM
i could chuck it up in the pats o and make like 6 mil a year. easy.

No you couldn't.

JD10367
07-14-2009, 02:35 PM
I agree. Asking prices for QBs now are ridiculous. I'd rather spend this money on somebody who's actually played a down in the NFL than a draft pick.

Yup. My biggest beef with the NFL (not that I have a better system in mind) is how the rookies are becoming slotted into paychecks in the 1st round. Sometimes, for a high pick, before a guy's even strapped on a jock in the pros he's getting paid more than most vets at his position. That's just insane to me. It's playing roulette with millions of dollars and years of a franchise's time. Do you have Drew Bledsoe or Rick Mirer? Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf? Look at where Marino was drafted in the '83 draft. Look at Brady. The drafting system is SUPPOSED to be weighed for the weaker teams but, in reality, the weaker teams then get screwed by having to cough up huge bucks to a rookie. As a Patriots fan, if Bill Belichick never uses a 1st-round pick higher than 10th I'll be happy. Notice how he even traded out of the bottom of the 1st round this year, and took three 2nd-rounders instead? The 1st round just is becoming so not worth it...

L.A. Chieffan
07-14-2009, 02:35 PM
No you couldn't.

yes i could

Chiefnj2
07-14-2009, 02:36 PM
I am just happy that the team has a young franchise QB who is locked up long term.

When was the last time we could say that?

2 years ago with Brody Croyle?

Messier
07-14-2009, 02:36 PM
yes i could

touché

wild1
07-14-2009, 02:37 PM
Yup. My biggest beef with the NFL (not that I have a better system in mind) is how the rookies are becoming slotted into paychecks in the 1st round. Sometimes, for a high pick, before a guy's even strapped on a jock in the pros he's getting paid more than most vets at his position.

Well great QBs rarely hit the open market, so you have to get in on the ground floor if you want a chance at one without trading a package of picks.

wild1
07-14-2009, 02:39 PM
2 years ago with Brody Croyle?

Hardly a comparison to be made. Cassel has handled the load for a full season. His rate was 89.4 last year, he's won 11 games in the league.

Croyle, while he seems talented, could hardly be a franchise player if he cant' stay healthy. Matt Cassel is now the Kansas City Chiefs' franchise player.

Shaid
07-14-2009, 02:40 PM
2 years ago with Brody Croyle?

He said franchise QB, not glass vagina.

Chiefnj2
07-14-2009, 02:42 PM
3 years, 40 million. Cassel made the most of that one year up in New England. Good for him.

Chiefnj2
07-14-2009, 02:42 PM
He said franchise QB, not glass vagina.

Like it or not, Herm chose Croyle to be the franchise QB of the team.

Shaid
07-14-2009, 02:44 PM
Like it or not, Herm chose Croyle to be the franchise QB of the team.

I know and he did show some potential but he can't stay healthy. We don't really know for sure about Cassel at this point either but he at least showed he can play a full season.

Basileus777
07-14-2009, 02:44 PM
A front loaded contract is actually good for us because we don't have any big free agents to resign on this roster in the near future and we have a ridiculous amount of cap space that we will never spend.

Messier
07-14-2009, 02:45 PM
Like it or not, Herm chose Croyle to be the franchise QB of the team.

Are you as unsure about Cassel as you were about Croyle?

Halfcan
07-14-2009, 02:55 PM
I think it is a good move-we have been hurting for a QB forever. Lets hope Matt is the Guy to led us to a (playoff win)-lol

chiefzilla1501
07-14-2009, 03:11 PM
I don't think this is too bad considering he was going to make 15 million this year no matter what happened.

Does 5 years, 48 million, with 13 million guaranteed sound like a good deal? That's basically what Pioli signed him for.

That depends on the way you look at it.

Because there's another counter-argument that 1-year $15M is a great deal if you learn that he's not as good as you thought he was. Because you can cut your losses after one year.

We won't have any idea if 5-years $48M was a good deal until the end of the year. If Cassel flops, then he might be worth 5-years $20M by season's end and you got ripped off. If he excels, then he might be worth 5 years $70M and then all of a sudden, you got a steal.

Ultra Peanut
07-14-2009, 03:12 PM
Guy is fucked.

booyaf2
07-14-2009, 03:15 PM
Cassel is believed to be the only quarterback in NFL history to start an NFL game without starting a game in college. Cassel was a backup at USC.

Only in Kansas City ladies and gentlemen

InChiefsHell
07-14-2009, 03:15 PM
I'm guessing the risk of waiting is that if he does as well as you think (hope) that he does, then at the end of the Franchise Tag season, you have to pour out a HUGE contract or let him go.

It makes sense to me to lock the guy up now. The amount...meh. Whatever. We already see that we aren't going to be signing any significant free agents and we have to get our draft signed, so this is not really that much money. I like a 6 year deal too. If Cassel works out well, then we don't have to worry about a QB at all, which would be nice for a change.

lostcause
07-14-2009, 03:16 PM
So, if he's Scott Mitchell we just burned a ton of money. If he's Dan Marino he holds out for a bigger contract the year after putting up 4000 yards?

I guess we at least have a qb.

LaChapelle
07-14-2009, 03:20 PM
As long as McDaniels is HC in Denver this contact has a money back guarantee.

sedated
07-14-2009, 03:23 PM
6 years, 63 million, 28 guaranteed.

How much were Sanchez' and Stafford's rookie contracts?

Chiefnj2
07-14-2009, 03:24 PM
Are you as unsure about Cassel as you were about Croyle?

No. I think Cassel can be a decent system QB. As the high paid QB he's going to take the brunt of criticism if the offense fails even though blame will probably rest with the OL and lack of weapons.

wild1
07-14-2009, 03:25 PM
Sanchez got essentially the same contract, but his is 5 years instead of 6

Chiefnj2
07-14-2009, 03:26 PM
6 years, 63 million, 28 guaranteed.

How much were Sanchez' and Stafford's rookie contracts?

Detroit gave quarterback Matthew Stafford, the No. 1 overall pick and the only other first-rounder to sign, a six-year contract worth up to $78 million, with $41.7 million in guarantees.

Sanchez's agent said 5 years, close to 60 million (including incentives) and 28 guaranteed.

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 03:27 PM
Everyone who is ticked off about this... I would probably murder you in cold blood if we ever met. You are seriously fucking moronic if you think the proper course of action to handle this franchise's QB deficit was to trade a high 2nd rounder & forgo the chance to draft a QB prospect for a QB that the team was going to evaluate for an entire season to see if he would be worth keeping or not. Out-of-this-world stupid.

Pioli is way smarter than you guys. He traded for Cassel because he had every expectation from the get-go that Cassel would be the man for this franchise going forward.

Chocolate Hog
07-14-2009, 03:27 PM
This is a good signing especially if the Chiefs want Cassel to be a leader.

Shaid
07-14-2009, 03:31 PM
That depends on the way you look at it.

Because there's another counter-argument that 1-year $15M is a great deal if you learn that he's not as good as you thought he was. Because you can cut your losses after one year.

We won't have any idea if 5-years $48M was a good deal until the end of the year. If Cassel flops, then he might be worth 5-years $20M by season's end and you got ripped off. If he excels, then he might be worth 5 years $70M and then all of a sudden, you got a steal.

We are essentially risking $13 million in guaranteed money by signing him now. Say he plays lights out this year, we either have to re-franchise him or let him go. Someone out there would be willing to pay Ben Rothlisberger type money for him if he proves he can play. I think the risk/reward here tips in our favor in a big way, especially when you consider that we have to spend the money anyways because of our current cap situation.

Sure-Oz
07-14-2009, 03:32 PM
I expect a yuniesky betancourt multi year extension in the coming days.

Brock
07-14-2009, 03:34 PM
There was no way they were going to go into next season with him as the franchise player.

wild1
07-14-2009, 03:36 PM
Everyone who is ticked off about this... I would probably murder you in cold blood if we ever met. You are seriously ****ing moronic if you think the proper course of action to handle this franchise's QB deficit was to trade a high 2nd rounder & forgo the chance to draft a QB prospect for a QB that the team was going to evaluate for an entire season to see if he would be worth keeping or not. Out-of-this-world stupid.

Pioli is way smarter than you guys. He traded for Cassel because he had every expectation from the get-go that Cassel would be the man for this franchise going forward.

Exactly.

The NFL executive of the decade knows him better than any executive in the league and decided we needed to lock this guy up long term. Good enough for me

Hog Farmer
07-14-2009, 03:38 PM
Guy is fucked.



Come back when you can actually type a full sentence that somewhat makes some sort of sense!

Sure-Oz
07-14-2009, 03:39 PM
There was no way they were going to go into next season with him as the franchise player.

Agreed, glad we got it done now. Hope he is a rock solid guy that can lead us.

JuicesFlowing
07-14-2009, 03:41 PM
Everyone who is ticked off about this... I would probably murder you in cold blood if we ever met. You are seriously ****ing moronic if you think the proper course of action to handle this franchise's QB deficit was to trade a high 2nd rounder & forgo the chance to draft a QB prospect for a QB that the team was going to evaluate for an entire season to see if he would be worth keeping or not. Out-of-this-world stupid.

Pioli is way smarter than you guys. He traded for Cassel because he had every expectation from the get-go that Cassel would be the man for this franchise going forward.

I agree. Some people think Pioli is going regress into some kind of King Carlian dumbassery ... My favorite is the responses at Bob Gretz.com ... some think "Pioli and Haley put their jobs on the line" ... Amazing.

Hog Farmer
07-14-2009, 03:41 PM
You do realize he was sacked 47 times last year. Our OL won't let that happen!

Chocolate Hog
07-14-2009, 03:44 PM
So this means the Chiefs are working on Tyson Jacksons contract now

Pitt Gorilla
07-14-2009, 03:52 PM
I don't think this is too bad considering he was going to make 15 million this year no matter what happened.

Does 5 years, 48 million, with 13 million guaranteed sound like a good deal? That's basically what Pioli signed him for.This is essentially what I was going to post. The franchise tag made the extension a little trickier than an UFA.

Pitt Gorilla
07-14-2009, 04:06 PM
Cassel is believed to be the only quarterback in NFL history to start an NFL game without starting a game in college. Cassel was a backup at USC.

Only in Kansas City ladies and gentlemenI'm trying to figure out why that would matter.

gblowfish
07-14-2009, 04:07 PM
Let's hope he earns it and doesn't get killed before we can build a line in front of him.

Chiefnj2
07-14-2009, 04:15 PM
By NFL rule, July 15 is the deadline to reach multi-year contracts with franchise players. After the 15th you can only sign them to 1 year contracts. There was some dispute as to whether the rule applied to Cassel since the Pats signed him first. In any event, it really isn't a surprise given the deadline.

shitgoose
07-14-2009, 04:21 PM
I don't give two shits and a fuck about what they are paying Cassel. With the money we have spent on absolute garbage over the last 19 years this actually feels good. Its not my money and it doesn't put us in any bind with the cap. This is one less distraction that Cassel has to deal with coming into a new team and organization as a first time starter.

DTLB58
07-14-2009, 04:27 PM
By NFL rule, July 15 is the deadline to reach multi-year contracts with franchise players. After the 15th you can only sign them to 1 year contracts. There was some dispute as to whether the rule applied to Cassel since the Pats signed him first. In any event, it really isn't a surprise given the deadline.

It didn't apply to cassel because after the trade he was no longer a franchise player.

kstater
07-14-2009, 04:28 PM
Just got the newest premium content from WPI.

According to Nick's sources, the deal is a 6 year $63 million with $28 million gauranteed

Simply Red
07-14-2009, 04:29 PM
Does this mean they won't go after Sanchez?

LMAO

HypnotizedMonkey
07-14-2009, 04:39 PM
I'm pretty excited about this... he's a tough guy and I think he's going to have luck on his side.

Shaid
07-14-2009, 04:49 PM
I'm pretty excited about this... he's a tough guy and I think he's going to have luck on his side.

I don't understand the luck comment but thanks for stopping by. :thumb:

Mr. Krab
07-14-2009, 05:20 PM
They better not have fucked up. This is hard to say but if Cassell doesn't work then Pioli probably needs to hit the door with him.

Reerun_KC
07-14-2009, 05:22 PM
They better not have ****ed up. This is hard to say but if Cassell doesn't work then Pioli probably needs to hit the door with him.

Agree...

No need to play pussy foot for 20 years like with Carl.... IF Cassel bombs, so does Pioli... Pioli's legacy is riding on this signing...

Mecca
07-14-2009, 05:34 PM
I haven't read through this thread but I am not a fan of this contract, one of the reasons that the people that liked Cassel gave for him over a drafted player was the money...well that isn't the case now.

That's alot of money for this situation.

Tuckdaddy
07-14-2009, 05:34 PM
60 Mil deal says NFL.com. 28 mil signing bonus. DAMN!

kstater
07-14-2009, 05:37 PM
60 Mil deal says NFL.com. 28 mil signing bonus. DAMN!

Not a chance in hell it's a 28 million signing bonus.

Dumbass.

talastan
07-14-2009, 05:38 PM
Agree...

No need to play pussy foot for 20 years like with Carl.... IF Cassel bombs, so does Pioli... Pioli's legacy is riding on this signing...

That is refreshing to say, Pioli is nothing like Carl. No safe picks and taking risks necessary IMO to get a championship. I hope it pays off, till then I'll trust Pioli's judgement.

The Bad Guy
07-14-2009, 05:42 PM
Agree...

No need to play pussy foot for 20 years like with Carl.... IF Cassel bombs, so does Pioli... Pioli's legacy is riding on this signing...

Yeah, the NFL exec of the century's legacy is riding on this one signing. Riiighhtttttttt.

orange
07-14-2009, 05:44 PM
I agree. Some people think Pioli is going regress into some kind of King Carlian dumbassery ... My favorite is the responses at Bob Gretz.com ... some think "Pioli and Haley put their jobs on the line" ... Amazing.

This guy makes up for it all, though:

July 14, 2009 - jimbo says:
I heard the KC Chiefs were Involved in a High Stakes Poker Game.
Matt Cassel was waiting patiently for his hand to be dealt.
No other players were present or for that matter even invited…
The rules of the game were simple.
Matt had to promise to stay healthy, to live & breathe KC Chiefs, to stay out of trouble, to turn the franchise around by completing (at least)65% of his passes, 4,000 yds. passing, 30 touchdown passes, per season for just 6 years. There would be additional money rewarded for winning playoff games, divisional titles & 1 or more Super Bowls.
In return the KC Chiefs would agree to pay him 60 plus million dollars with incentives, bonus’s & guaranteed money.
After much negotiating the terms were agreed by both parties.
The cards were dealt quickly & quietly. 5 card stud, no extra cards, no more betting. Winner takes it all.

Whoa.. hold on a moment. What do you mean the winner takes it all, Just who is the winner anyhow? Yikes… that’s a good question.

Why of course… The winner is the loyal fans. Yes, You & me & all our friends in Chiefs Nation.

Why is it that all of these well intended negotiations & promises make us feel a little bit uneasy. We have absolutely no control of the future or any decisions being made.
Our participation is vital. The team needs us, (now more than ever). Now is the time to have a little faith & belief that all is well.
We now have to believe that the new guys in town, have gotten rid of the pestilence that has plagued this city for two generations. Maybe they can see into the future. Maybe they can pull all the right strings. Maybe they can show us the way.
Maybe,in time, They will bring the Lamar Hunt trophy back home again…. Go Chiefs

Mecca
07-14-2009, 05:47 PM
Yeah, the NFL exec of the century's legacy is riding on this one signing. Riiighhtttttttt.

Fucking up on a QB is the kind of thing that gets people fired....Cassel has to be good otherwise this off season will be remembered poorly, especially if Sanchez is good.

banyon
07-14-2009, 05:52 PM
I can't believe we just locked ourselves into a guy who hasn't started a full NFL season. What if we had done this last year on Derek Anderson? Cassell may not be Anderson, but it's a huge risk for a guy that we didn't draft or develop.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 05:59 PM
I can't believe we just locked ourselves into a guy who hasn't started a full NFL season. What if we had done this last year on Derek Anderson? Cassell may not be Anderson, but it's a huge risk for a guy that we didn't draft or develop.

And people say drafting a QB is risky.

JASONSAUTO
07-14-2009, 06:00 PM
I haven't read through this thread but I am not a fan of this contract, one of the reasons that the people that liked Cassel gave for him over a drafted player was the money...well that isn't the case now.

That's alot of money for this situation.

but 2 guys who have NEVER played a down in the nfl got more. you would be fine and dandy with that so why not like this deal?

JASONSAUTO
07-14-2009, 06:01 PM
I can't believe we just locked ourselves into a guy who hasn't started a full NFL season. What if we had done this last year on Derek Anderson? Cassell may not be Anderson, but it's a huge risk for a guy that we didn't draft or develop.

OUR GM DID DRAFT AND DEVELOP HIM!!!

Mecca
07-14-2009, 06:01 PM
but 2 guys who have NEVER played a down in the nfl got more. you would be fine and dandy with that so why not like this deal?

Stafford did, I don't remember Sanchez contract but I think it's comparable to this contract...and frankly I'd rather have the 22 year old guy than the 27 year old guy.

The Bad Guy
07-14-2009, 06:03 PM
Stafford did, I don't remember Sanchez contract but I think it's comparable to this contract...and frankly I'd rather have the 22 year old guy than the 27 year old guy.

Shocker.

JASONSAUTO
07-14-2009, 06:04 PM
Stafford did, I don't remember Sanchez contract but I think it's comparable to this contract...and frankly I'd rather have the 22 year old guy than the 27 year old guy.

sanchez' was reported as 5 years 28 mil guaranteed, he has never played a down cassel HAS so, frankly, we got a better deal AS OF NOW

banyon
07-14-2009, 06:05 PM
OUR GM DID DRAFT AND DEVELOP HIM!!!

I didn't realize that Pioi had mentored him as a QB too and taken him through practices. Man, he truly is godlike.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 06:05 PM
Shocker.

Yea it sucks to have an opinion.

Sorry I'm not a fan of paying big dollars to a guy who's been riding the pine since high school. Maybe I'm wrong it'd be better off if I was but I don't think Cassel is going to be a franchise guy.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 06:05 PM
sanchez' was reported as 5 years 28 mil guaranteed, he has never played a down cassel HAS so, frankly, we got a better deal AS OF NOW

So basically your theory is any QB that's started in the NFL is better than anyone drafted that year?

The Bad Guy
07-14-2009, 06:05 PM
****ing up on a QB is the kind of thing that gets people fired....Cassel has to be good otherwise this off season will be remembered poorly, especially if Sanchez is good.

Yeah, gets them fired when they have no resume.

The guy is going to have a lot of time here to determine his legacy as a Chief GM. I guarantee he's here longer than the Cassel contract regardless if he is a flop or not.

The Bad Guy
07-14-2009, 06:07 PM
Yea it sucks to have an opinion.

Sorry I'm not a fan of paying big dollars to a guy who's been riding the pine since high school. Maybe I'm wrong it'd be better off if I was but I don't think Cassel is going to be a franchise guy.

We can disagree then.

If he was riding the pine behind John David Booty, then I would wonder. But Carson Palmer and Tom Brady?

Mecca
07-14-2009, 06:08 PM
We can disagree then.

If he was riding the pine behind John David Booty, then I would wonder. But Carson Palmer and Tom Brady?

He rode it behind Leinart for several years and lost a competition to him, and I know how nicely everyone speaks of Leinart around here.

JASONSAUTO
07-14-2009, 06:09 PM
So basically your theory is any QB that's started in the NFL is better than anyone drafted that year?

where in the hell did i say that? what i have said repeatedly is that cassel went 11-5 last year and some have said he is a top 10 qb in the nfl and pioli ( the nfl exec of the DECADE) obviously thinks he is better and the draft guys said if he was in the draft knowing what we knew he would have gone #1 and with the way he leads the players even after a short time here he IS WORTH IT

JASONSAUTO
07-14-2009, 06:09 PM
I didn't realize that Pioi had mentored him as a QB too and taken him through practices. Man, he truly is godlike.

i'm sure he had a hand in picking who mentored him

stevieray
07-14-2009, 06:10 PM
here we go again.

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 06:10 PM
I don't have a problem with the contract, and I am someone who hated/hates the trade in the first place. Trading for Cassel and not signing him long term seems a lot worse than trading for him and signing him. The former would mean we passed up a 1st round QB prospect for an indulgent whim.

JASONSAUTO
07-14-2009, 06:11 PM
He rode it behind Leinart for several years and lost a competition to him, and I know how nicely everyone speaks of Leinart around here.

thats called favoritism, carroll had his guy and nothing would change his mind, and i'm sure someone said that the asst. coaches wanted cassel to play, just like sanchez' situation

Mecca
07-14-2009, 06:11 PM
I don't have a problem with the contract, and I am someone who hated/hates the trade in the first place. Trading for Cassel and not signing him long term seems a lot worse than trading for him and signing him. The former would mean we passed up a 1st round QB prospect for an indulgent whim.

Contract or not he has to be good, unless of course all the QB's suck then no one wins.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 06:12 PM
thats called favoritism, carroll had his guy and nothing would change his mind, and i'm sure someone said that the asst. coaches wanted cassel to play, just like sanchez' situation

Considering how good of a player Leinart was in the SC system it was the right call, he was as good as a college QB can be.

JASONSAUTO
07-14-2009, 06:13 PM
Contract or not he has to be good, unless of course all the QB's suck then no one wins.

:rolleyes:the only one that REALLY matters is sanchez, stafford was gone. and even he doesnt matter in my mind. different place different outcome.

JASONSAUTO
07-14-2009, 06:14 PM
Considering how good of a player Leinart was in the SC system it was the right call, he was as good as a college QB can be.

then why bash cassel for sitting behind him? see as hamas would say duplicity at its finest

Mecca
07-14-2009, 06:14 PM
:rolleyes:the only one that REALLY matters is sanchez, stafford was gone. and even he doesnt matter in my mind. different place different outcome.

You and I both know if Sanchez is awesome and Cassel sucks how this will be remembered, just like if it's the other way around.

JASONSAUTO
07-14-2009, 06:15 PM
You and I both know if Sanchez is awesome and Cassel sucks how this will be remembered, just like if it's the other way around.

maybe to some mecca, but not to me. like i said NO ONE knows how sanchez would have worked out here, even if he's all pro as a jet. different place maybe a different outcome

Mecca
07-14-2009, 06:15 PM
then why bash cassel for sitting behind him? see as hamas would say duplicity at its finest

Just the point that he didn't beat him, I'm personally not a huge fan of guys who sit on the bench for prolonged periods of time.

He was given his chance and was beaten out by a lower rated recruit. Maybe he'll be good maybe he won't but personally line up on the side that I didn't like the move so until he shows me reason to feel it was right I'm staying with that.

banyon
07-14-2009, 06:16 PM
i'm sure he had a hand in picking who mentored him

The point is that he's shifting coaches and coordinators, and not all players (particularly QB's) do well with that. It just adds to the outstanding risk.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 06:17 PM
maybe to some mecca, but not to me. like i said NO ONE knows how sanchez would have worked out here, even if he's all pro as a jet. different place maybe a different outcome

NO ONE REMEMBERS DRAFTS THAT WAY, everyone for years talked about what if we had taken Marino and not Blackledge.

No one is going to go "oh well see he wouldn't be like that here".

Mecca
07-14-2009, 06:17 PM
The point is that he's shifting coaches and coordinators, and not all players (particularly QB's) do well with that. It just adds to the outstanding risk.

He's not bringing Moss and Welker with him either....that to me is concerning. We have nothing remotely resembling those guys.

The Bad Guy
07-14-2009, 06:19 PM
He rode it behind Leinart for several years and lost a competition to him, and I know how nicely everyone speaks of Leinart around here.

Leinart was a great college QB. I can't complain about that one either.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 06:20 PM
Anyway the point I was making earlier is this is most likely the single most important decision Scott Pioli will make as the GM of this team.

Whether he's right or wrong will completely shape this team for a long time.

JASONSAUTO
07-14-2009, 06:21 PM
Just the point that he didn't beat him, I'm personally not a huge fan of guys who sit on the bench for prolonged periods of time.

He was given his chance and was beaten out by a lower rated recruit. Maybe he'll be good maybe he won't but personally line up on the side that I didn't like the move so until he shows me reason to feel it was right I'm staying with that.

now the asst coaches believed he DID beat him out and carroll went with the other guy, how can he help that, what if booty had been around longer would you have been against sanchez?

FAX
07-14-2009, 06:21 PM
Oh my God. Not this again. How much more? For the sake of Jesus, how much more?

FAX

JASONSAUTO
07-14-2009, 06:22 PM
The point is that he's shifting coaches and coordinators, and not all players (particularly QB's) do well with that. It just adds to the outstanding risk.

thats a good point, but everything about the guy that we have heard so far says he will handle it. he is a HARD WORKER

Mecca
07-14-2009, 06:22 PM
now the asst coaches believed he DID beat him out and carroll went with the other guy, how can he help that, what if booty had been around longer would you have been against sanchez?

The evidence of those situations were this..

Booty was a very blah QB who fucked up all the time and Sanchez when he played proved to be a better player.

Matt Leinart was the best QB in college for a period of time.

They aren't the same decision, he got 1 right and 1 wrong.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 06:23 PM
Oh my God. Not this again. How much more? For the sake of Jesus, how much more?

FAX

It's the offseason....there's basically been nothing to talk about for 2 months..do you like that better?

JASONSAUTO
07-14-2009, 06:24 PM
The evidence of those situations were this..

Booty was a very blah QB who fucked up all the time and Sanchez when he played proved to be a better player.

Matt Leinart was the best QB in college for a period of time.

They aren't the same decision, he got 1 right and 1 wrong.

yes they are, who knows what cassel would have done with that team.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 06:26 PM
yes they are, who knows what cassel would have done with that team.

Are you trying to argue to me that Matt Leinart was the wrong decision?

FAX
07-14-2009, 06:28 PM
It's the offseason....there's basically been nothing to talk about for 2 months..do you like that better?

Are you telling me, Mr. Mecca, that you can think of nothing else to discuss? In an entire universe of possibilities? That considering the immense breadth and depth of the universe, your single, sole choice of topics is Sanchez and the draft?

FAX

JASONSAUTO
07-14-2009, 06:29 PM
Are you trying to argue to me that Matt Leinart was the wrong decision?

how do you know it wasnt? i dont know that it was i'll admit but in that same vein you dont know it was the right decision either

Brock
07-14-2009, 06:29 PM
Cassel likely would have done quite well if he had played instead of Leinart.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 06:30 PM
Are you telling me, Mr. Mecca, that you can think of nothing else to discuss? In an entire universe of possibilities? That considering the immense breadth and depth of the universe, your single, sole choice of topics is Sanchez and the draft?

FAX

That is how this offseason is going to be remembered, it's the biggest decision Pioli will make in his tenure here and will basically be a huge factor in if he's successful here or not.

It's worth discussing a few times.

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 06:30 PM
Anyway the point I was making earlier is this is most likely the single most important decision Scott Pioli will make as the GM of this team.

Whether he's right or wrong will completely shape this team for a long time.
Very true.

JASONSAUTO
07-14-2009, 06:31 PM
Cassel likely would have done quite well if he had played instead of Leinart.

thank you.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 06:32 PM
how do you know it wasnt? i dont know that it was i'll admit but in that same vein you dont know it was the right decision either

He won a Heisman trophy and was a finalist the next year...if Leinart had been blah like Booty was then there's an argument for this.

Maybe Cassel is this huge exception I know people want to believe in the guy but lets atleast be realistic about where he's coming from.

JASONSAUTO
07-14-2009, 06:33 PM
He won a Heisman trophy and was a finalist the next year...if Leinart had been blah like Booty was then there's an argument for this.

Maybe Cassel is this huge exception I know people want to believe in the guy but lets atleast be realistic about where he's coming from.

but again the asst coaches wanted cassel to play. they were right about booty what makes you so sure they were wrong about cassel? again duplicity at its finest

Ebolapox
07-14-2009, 06:33 PM
This is a good signing especially if the Chiefs want Cassel to be a leader.

that's another thing I like about this and the new regime. this shows the younger guys, the guys going into their second contract (the ones who are WORTH resigning) that if you show up, work your ass off and do everything team-first, the team will reward you. cassel did/said the right things and all indications are he's got leadership abilities, and he got paid.

Halfcan
07-14-2009, 06:35 PM
Matt needs to do 2 things this year and I will be happy- sweep the division and win a playoff game.

I don't think I am asking for too much.

DeezNutz
07-14-2009, 06:35 PM
maybe to some mecca, but not to me. like i said NO ONE knows how sanchez would have worked out here, even if he's all pro as a jet. different place maybe a different outcome

So, from this perspective, no one can ever play the "what if" game regarding a selection, regardless of position?

It's ok that we passed on Bob Sanders in the 2nd a few years back because who knows how he would have done here? Same thing with the likes of a Boldin? Brady? Etc., etc., etc.

Brock
07-14-2009, 06:36 PM
Matt needs to do 2 things this year and I will be happy- sweep the division and win a playoff game.

I don't think I am asking for too much.

ROFL

JASONSAUTO
07-14-2009, 06:37 PM
So, from this perspective, no one can ever play the "what if" game regarding a selection, regardless of position?

It's ok that we passed on Bob Sanders in the 2nd a few years back because who knows how he would have done here? Same thing with the likes of a Boldin? Brady? Etc., etc., etc.

no play it all you want, i said it doesnt matter TO ME. water under the bridge

Mecca
07-14-2009, 06:37 PM
but again the asst coaches wanted cassel to play. they were right about booty what makes you so sure they were wrong about cassel? again duplicity at its finest

Dude Booty didn't perform, Leinart's performance proves he was the right decision. That is the difference in this, no one in their right mind ever questioned why wasn't Cassel playing when Leinart was starting because he was top of the line as a college QB. People called for Booty's head a shit load of times during both his years as starter. That is my team I know this...

Mecca
07-14-2009, 06:38 PM
So, from this perspective, no one can ever play the "what if" game regarding a selection, regardless of position?

It's ok that we passed on Bob Sanders in the 2nd a few years back because who knows how he would have done here? Same thing with the likes of a Boldin? Brady? Etc., etc., etc.

Carl's tenure here also gave a lot of people such low draft standards they act like draft picks don't have much value.

JASONSAUTO
07-14-2009, 06:39 PM
Dude Booty didn't perform, Leinart's performance proves he was the right decision. That is the difference in this, no one in their right mind ever questioned why wasn't Cassel playing when Leinart was starting because he was top of the line as a college QB. People called for Booty's head a shit load of times during both his years as starter. That is my team I know this...

i understand that, still doesnt prove that it was the right move.

DeezNutz
07-14-2009, 06:39 PM
no play it all you want, i said it doesnt matter TO ME. water under the bridge

Being able to let things like this roll off is probably beneficial for one's blood pressure. That said, I get ****ing pissed when stupid selections, Junior for example, are thrust upon my favorite franchise.

Coach
07-14-2009, 06:39 PM
Yea it sucks to have an opinion.

Sorry I'm not a fan of paying big dollars to a guy who's been riding the pine since high school. Maybe I'm wrong it'd be better off if I was but I don't think Cassel is going to be a franchise guy.

And at the same time, nobody knows if Stafford and Sanchez are going to be franchise QB's.

Makes no fucking difference anyways.

JASONSAUTO
07-14-2009, 06:41 PM
Being able to let things like this roll off is probably beneficial for one's blood pressure. That said, I get ****ing pissed when stupid selections, Junior for example, are thrust upon my favorite franchise.

i get pissed too man, but you have to let it go sooner or later. i tend to sooner

Mecca
07-14-2009, 06:41 PM
And at the same time, nobody knows if Stafford and Sanchez are going to be franchise QB's.

Makes no fucking difference anyways.

Like I said earlier they all could suck which would make the debate pointless.

Either way this is still the biggest decision Pioli will likely make in his tenure with this team. Let's all hope it was right because if it's not we're fucked.

doomy3
07-14-2009, 06:42 PM
So, from this perspective, no one can ever play the "what if" game regarding a selection, regardless of position?

It's ok that we passed on Bob Sanders in the 2nd a few years back because who knows how he would have done here? Same thing with the likes of a Boldin? Brady? Etc., etc., etc.

True, but it works both ways though.

Curry has had some write-ups already that are saying he is looking great rushing the passer, and his pass rush moves are polished.

When someone posted the article here, most everyone who had spent the entire offseason saying he couldn't rush the passer said it didn't matter because he was doing it out of the 4-3 and not the 3-4, so even if he has double digit sacks this year, that means nothing.

It's just funny how this only works when it supports your argument.

JD10367
07-14-2009, 06:42 PM
Cassel is believed to be the only quarterback in NFL history to start an NFL game without starting a game in college. Cassel was a backup at USC.

Only in Kansas City ladies and gentlemen

:shrug: He's also probably the only QB who's backed up three Heismans. And Tom Brady's the only QB who was drafted in the 6th round and won three Super Bowls. And Roethlisberger is the only QB to win two Super Bowls who's also bounced his head off a car. You can pretty much come up with a stat for everyone.

Coach
07-14-2009, 06:42 PM
Fucking up on a QB is the kind of thing that gets people fired....Cassel has to be good otherwise this off season will be remembered poorly, especially if Sanchez is good.

Yes, let's just give one year for our QB to get a accurate analysis. If Cassel bombs, might as well cut him already, right?

Might I remind you that Trent Green sucked ass in his first year? Jesus Fucking Christ, how about giving the guy a chance (perferably two years) before killing and gutting him, eh?

DTLB58
07-14-2009, 06:42 PM
So, from this perspective, no one can ever play the "what if" game regarding a selection, regardless of position?

It's ok that we passed on Bob Sanders in the 2nd a few years back because who knows how he would have done here? Same thing with the likes of a Boldin? Brady? Etc., etc., etc.

Very true, Can you see Brady being what he is now under Herm and he's great QB coach Dick Curl?

I'm a great believer in a player's greatness being completely fullfilled and or altered by where he is drafted, meaning which coaches and schemes he is given through his career plays a huge impact. I would say especially on Offense.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 06:45 PM
Yes, let's just give one year for our QB to get a accurate analysis. If Cassel bombs, might as well cut him already, right?

Might I remind you that Trent Green sucked ass in his first year? Jesus Fucking Christ, how about giving the guy a chance (perferably two years) before killing and gutting him, eh?

That's a hell of a way to misinterpret what I said...where did I say this year? Really I didn't even remotely imply this year.

But lets remember he's 27 not 22 so he should be good faster than guy recently drafted.

And he better be better than Trent Green.

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 06:45 PM
True, but it works both ways though.

Curry has had some write-ups already that are saying he is looking great rushing the passer, and his pass rush moves are polished.

When someone posted the article here, most everyone who had spent the entire offseason saying he couldn't rush the passer said it didn't matter because he was doing it out of the 4-3 and not the 3-4, so even if he has double digit sacks this year, that means nothing.

It's just funny how this only works when it supports your argument.
Oh, screw that. Fluff articles get written about every first round draft pick for every team every single year. Just because the fluff piece article says that Jesus Curry's pass rush moves are polished doesn't make it so. Also, you have to trust that beat writer if you want to believe that claim. I know that I don't trust the analysis of the Star's Kent Babb for anything; the Seattle guy could be equally as inept.

JD10367
07-14-2009, 06:45 PM
No. I think Cassel can be a decent system QB. As the high paid QB he's going to take the brunt of criticism if the offense fails even though blame will probably rest with the OL and lack of weapons.

I think "system QB" is one of those bullshit terms that gets thrown around too much. In most cases, "system QB" is a way of saying "a guy who's only got average talent, and can win a game if you play max-protect and he doesn't f**k up, but he's not a QB who stands out by himself". Brady was labeled a "system QB" after 2001.

IMO I don't think Cassel will turn out to be a "system QB". He can make short throws quickly and decisively. He's athletic enough to evade pressure and quick enough to run for first downs. He needs a little more touch on the long ball but he CAN get it downfield. He works hard, studies hard, and seems to have a great attitude. In short, he seems to have all the tools at his disposal to succeed.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 06:48 PM
True, but it works both ways though.

Curry has had some write-ups already that are saying he is looking great rushing the passer, and his pass rush moves are polished.

When someone posted the article here, most everyone who had spent the entire offseason saying he couldn't rush the passer said it didn't matter because he was doing it out of the 4-3 and not the 3-4, so even if he has double digit sacks this year, that means nothing.

It's just funny how this only works when it supports your argument.

It's a fluff piece and he's in Seattle's 4-3 so the odds of him getting alot of sacks is pretty slim.

Seattle is another example of how not to build a team, 100 million dollars of LB.

doomy3
07-14-2009, 06:49 PM
Oh, screw that. Fluff articles get written about every first round draft pick for every team every single year. Just because the fluff piece article says that Jesus Curry's pass rush moves are polished doesn't make it so. Also, you have to trust that beat writer if you want to believe that claim. I know that I don't trust the analysis of the Star's Kent Babb for anything; the Seattle guy could be equally as inept.

That's not the point. I could give two shits about what the article said.

The comment was made in that thread that if he has double digit sacks, then we made a mistake.

That was followed with people piling on with things like "it doesn't matter because it's a different system, so who knows what he would do here."

My question is, why does that work there, but when someone says Sanchez could be good in NY, but wouldn't have been good here in this system, it doesn't fly.

Do you comprehend this?

DeezNutz
07-14-2009, 06:49 PM
True, but it works both ways though.

Curry has had some write-ups already that are saying he is looking great rushing the passer, and his pass rush moves are polished.

When someone posted the article here, most everyone who had spent the entire offseason saying he couldn't rush the passer said it didn't matter because he was doing it out of the 4-3 and not the 3-4, so even if he has double digit sacks this year, that means nothing.

It's just funny how this only works when it supports your argument.

I understand what you're saying.

But we all know that there are indeed system players. Great 4-3 DTs won't necessarily (or even likely) make great 3-4 DTs, for example.

Do you think this applies to QBs? Maybe in some cases...but not with the likes of a special talent like Stafford. I happen to place Sanchez in the same category, understanding that others might not.

Of course, all of the above is predicated on the fact that Herm be allowed to touch absolutely nothing. He'd destroy a wet dream.

JASONSAUTO
07-14-2009, 06:49 PM
Very true, Can you see Brady being what he is now under Herm and he's great QB coach Dick Curl?

I'm a great believer in a player's greatness being completely fullfilled and or altered by where he is drafted, meaning which coaches and schemes he is given through his career plays a huge impact. I would say especially on Offense.

i said that, not him. i am the one who has said that sanchez might be great in NY, doesnt mean shit to us, he could have bombed here

Bwana
07-14-2009, 06:50 PM
Outstanding!

Mecca
07-14-2009, 06:51 PM
i said that, not him. i am the one who has said that sanchez might be great in NY, doesnt mean shit to us, he could have bombed here

And that is not how it will be perceived by the majority of people was what I said to you about it.

It will just be considered a fuckup by the general fan.

DeezNutz
07-14-2009, 06:51 PM
Very true, Can you see Brady being what he is now under Herm and he's great QB coach Dick Curl?

I'm a great believer in a player's greatness being completely fullfilled and or altered by where he is drafted, meaning which coaches and schemes he is given through his career plays a huge impact. I would say especially on Offense.

I think there is much truthiness here. But someone who is gifted will always excel, IMO. Maybe not to the absolute top of his capabilities, but excel nonetheless.

Would Peyton Manning have failed under Herm, to use an extreme example?

doomy3
07-14-2009, 06:51 PM
I understand what you're saying.

But we all know that there are indeed system players. Great 4-3 DTs won't necessarily (or even likely) make great 3-4 DTs, for example.

Do you think this applies to QBs? Maybe in some cases...but not with the likes of a special talent like Stafford. I happen to place Sanchez in the same category, understanding that others might not.

Of course, all of the above is predicated on the fact that Herm be allowed to touch absolutely nothing. He'd destroy a wet dream.

Yes, I do think it applies to QBs. QBs with less arm strength shouldn't be in offenses that emphasize the vertical passing game, which Haley's offense has. That's the main reason Leinart failed.

It is completely possible that Sanchez could be good in Rex Ryan's ball control offense (if that's what he runs), but couldn't have succeeded in Haley's vertical passing offense.

JD10367
07-14-2009, 06:51 PM
Yea it sucks to have an opinion.

Sorry I'm not a fan of paying big dollars to a guy who's been riding the pine since high school.

If Bernard Pollard hadn't nailed Tom Brady, Matt Cassel would still be riding the pine. Does that mean he sucks as a QB? Well, if Mo Lewis hadn't nailed Drew Bledsoe, maybe Tom Brady would still be riding the pine. :shrug: The players sometimes can't control where they go, or when they get off the bench. But they can make the most of their time, which Cassel did.

Chieftain58
07-14-2009, 06:52 PM
I hope Tyler Thigpen wins the starting job!

chiefqueen
07-14-2009, 06:53 PM
I can't believe we just locked ourselves into a guy who hasn't started a full NFL season. What if we had done this last year on Derek Anderson? Cassell may not be Anderson, but it's a huge risk for a guy that we didn't draft or develop.

You're right...Pollard should have tackled Brady in Pre-game warm-ups.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 06:53 PM
If Bernard Pollard hadn't nailed Tom Brady, Matt Cassel would still be riding the pine. Does that mean he sucks as a QB? Well, if Mo Lewis hadn't nailed Drew Bledsoe, maybe Tom Brady would still be riding the pine. :shrug: The players sometimes can't control where they go, or when they get off the bench. But they can make the most of their time, which Cassel did.

Tom Brady was actually a pretty good college player though so he didn't ride the pine forever.

JASONSAUTO
07-14-2009, 06:53 PM
I think there is much truthiness here. But someone who is gifted will always excel, IMO. Maybe not to the absolute top of his capabilities, but excel nonetheless.

Would Peyton Manning have failed under Herm, to use an extreme example?

yes herm would have broke his spirit in about 3 games, peyton would have cried himself to sleep every night and lost it, hell he gets flustrated if someone touches him and needs like 3 plays to choose from. would herm have ever allowed the QB to choose a play? peyton would have lost his mind

Mecca
07-14-2009, 06:54 PM
Yes, I do think it applies to QBs. QBs with less arm strength shouldn't be in offenses that emphasize the vertical passing game, which Haley's offense has. That's the main reason Leinart failed.

It is completely possible that Sanchez could be good in Rex Ryan's ball control offense (if that's what he runs), but couldn't have succeeded in Haley's vertical passing offense.

Sanchez arm is not that bad, Leinart's arm is system limited. Sanchez isn't physically flawed enough to be system limited, Leinart is/was and he fit fine when Denny Green drafted him and then that changed.

DeezNutz
07-14-2009, 06:55 PM
yes herm would have broke his spirit in about 3 games, peyton would have cried himself to sleep every night and lost it, hell he gets flustrated if someone touches him and needs like 3 plays to choose from. would herm have ever allowed the QB to choose a play? peyton would have lost his mind

Don't agree at all. Manning would have mind fucked Herm in about 2 seconds.

We're talking about one naturally instinctive and intellectually astute individual and one...well...Herm. Good man. Yet none of the above.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 06:55 PM
yes herm would have broke his spirit in about 3 games, peyton would have cried himself to sleep every night and lost it, hell he gets flustrated if someone touches him and needs like 3 plays to choose from. would herm have ever allowed the QB to choose a play? peyton would have lost his mind

Well he played for Dungy who in many ways is Herm light...I remember people on this very forum flipping out when Manning would wave the punt team off for "overruling his coach" and all of that.

Looking back now we know why Manning was like that with him.

JASONSAUTO
07-14-2009, 06:56 PM
Well he played for Dungy who in many ways is Herm light...I remember people on this very forum flipping out when Manning would wave the punt team off for "overruling his coach" and all of that.

Looking back now we know why Manning was like that with him.

herm wouldnt have taken that IMO

Ebolapox
07-14-2009, 06:56 PM
Tom Brady was actually a pretty good college player though so he didn't ride the pine forever.

so good that he was a first rounder, right?

so good that fucking drew henson started ahead of him, right?

so good that the pats almost drafted tim rattay ahead of him, right?

so good that all 32 nfl teams passed on him a multitude of times, right?

sometimes you're good, and sometimes you're lucky. the patriots were fucking lucky, let's not kid ourselves.

JASONSAUTO
07-14-2009, 06:56 PM
Don't agree at all. Manning would have mind fucked Herm in about 2 seconds.

We're talking about one naturally instinctive and intellectually astute individual and one...well...Herm. Good man. Yet none of the above.

LMAO maybe but herm would have sure tried

DeezNutz
07-14-2009, 06:57 PM
Yes, I do think it applies to QBs. QBs with less arm strength shouldn't be in offenses that emphasize the vertical passing game, which Haley's offense has. That's the main reason Leinart failed.

It is completely possible that Sanchez could be good in Rex Ryan's ball control offense (if that's what he runs), but couldn't have succeeded in Haley's vertical passing offense.

I don't put Sanchez in the category of a system QB.

He's an elite talent, and this is where we diverge.

For all the middling guys, I agree with your statement. But I was hyperfocusing on top-of-the-draft talent, not guys like a Chad Pennington.

JASONSAUTO
07-14-2009, 06:57 PM
Sanchez arm is not that bad, Leinart's arm is system limited. Sanchez isn't physically flawed enough to be system limited, Leinart is/was and he fit fine when Denny Green drafted him and then that changed.

you talk about this like it's assured, it's not. nothing is absolute no matter what you think