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Thig Lyfe
07-14-2009, 07:52 PM
GREINKE WILL FUCK YOU UP

Sure-Oz
07-14-2009, 07:52 PM
STFD!!!!!! thats how we fuckin roll!

wild1
07-14-2009, 07:52 PM
F*** YOU MADDON F*** YOU

Coach
07-14-2009, 07:52 PM
Wasted him.

petegz28
07-14-2009, 07:52 PM
SIT DOWN!!!

Farzin
07-14-2009, 07:52 PM
That's Greinke for you!

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 07:52 PM
Greinke just embarrassed the Natioanlol League there.

Sure-Oz
07-14-2009, 07:53 PM
F*** YOU MADDON F*** YOU

THIS

Thig Lyfe
07-14-2009, 07:53 PM
Wah-Keem Soria in 08

Only because it went like 20 innings.

KCUnited
07-14-2009, 07:53 PM
Royals World Series right there!

wild1
07-14-2009, 07:53 PM
I wonder what that 2.12 would be if he pitched in the NL

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 07:53 PM
blah blah bleh

Yes, why let facts get in the way of emotion? I agree.

alnorth
07-14-2009, 07:54 PM
Top 5th

Chad Billingsley relieves Haren and replaces Haren

Brad Hawpe replaces Ibanez and comes in at RF

Ryan Zimmerman replaces Haren and comes in at 3B

Braun moves to LF

Carl Crawford bats for Greinke

Crawford singles to center
Suzuki reaches on a 2-4 fielder's choice, Crawford out at second
Jeter reaches on a 3-6 fielder's choice, Suzuki out at second
Mauer doubles to left, Jeter scores
Teixeira grounds out to first 3-1

1 run, 2 hits

Bottom 5th

Adam Jones replaces Bay and comes in at RF

Crawford comes in at LF

Edwin Jackson relieves Greinke and replaces Suzuki

Molina grounds out to shortstop
Zimmerman flies out to center
Ramirez grounds out to third

0 runs, 0 hits

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 07:54 PM
I wonder what that 2.12 would be if he pitched in the NL

The NL is a terrible league, so considerably less.

RJ
07-14-2009, 07:54 PM
So, was it everything you guys thought it would be?

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 07:54 PM
They COULD, but they don't. They still whine about the Cubs, and the Cubs fans still don't really care. And that just makes them even madder.

Same shit, different state. But that doesn't make it any better.
You have a gross misperception of how the STL/KC fan dynamic works.

Coach
07-14-2009, 07:54 PM
I wonder what that 2.12 would be if he pitched in the NL

He would be as good as Haren is. Haren is also a excellent pitcher.

petegz28
07-14-2009, 07:55 PM
Greinke just embarrassed the Natioanlol League there.

harmless pop fly on 1 pitch...
K looking...
K swinging at nastienss...


Greinke= best pitching performance of the night so far

Frazod
07-14-2009, 07:55 PM
Yes, why let facts get in the way of emotion? I agree.

Here's a fact - Molina made Halladay his bitch. :)

KevB
07-14-2009, 07:55 PM
I'm not able to watch....pitch sequence on the 2 K's? Did he finish with the filthy slider or the glorious 69 MPH yakker?

Frazod
07-14-2009, 07:56 PM
You have a gross misperception of how the STL/KC fan dynamic works.

No, I do not.

Archie F. Swin
07-14-2009, 07:56 PM
I love it when Zack make batters look like Charles Barkley with an 8 iron

wild1
07-14-2009, 07:56 PM
I love it when Zack make batters look like Charles Barkley with an 8 iron

:LOL:

petegz28
07-14-2009, 07:57 PM
I'm not able to watch....pitch sequence on the 2 K's? Did he finish with the filthy slider or the glorious 69 MPH yakker?

filthy slider

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 07:58 PM
No, I do not.
What you describes as the Cubs/Sox dynamic is not how the STL/KC dynamic is at all.

petegz28
07-14-2009, 07:59 PM
The sad part is I would give up 3-4 of our players for 1 of any of the fielders on the field tonight

Frazod
07-14-2009, 08:00 PM
What you describes as the Cubs/Sox dynamic is not how the STL/KC dynamic is at all.

One side endlessly butthurt, the other side saying "have we met?"

Thig Lyfe
07-14-2009, 08:00 PM
The sad part is I would give up 3-4 of our players for 1 of any of the fielders on the field tonight

And of course the closest we'd come would be Dan Uggla.

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 08:00 PM
The sad part is I would give up 3-4 of our players for 1 of any of the fielders on the field tonight
Heck, I'd do it for replacement-level players.

Sure-Oz
07-14-2009, 08:00 PM
The sad part is I would give up 3-4 of our players for 1 of any of the fielders on the field tonight

id give up the whole starting lineup for 1 of these guys

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 08:01 PM
Here's a fact - Molina made Halladay his bitch. :)
Yeah, he's quite skilled at getting lucky bloop hits. I'll give him that.

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 08:02 PM
One side endlessly butthurt, the other side saying "have we met?"
Yeah, that is not how the STL/KC dynamic works. Not one bit.

Wear a Royals hat in Columbia, MO or Springfield, MO sometime. You'll see how the dynamic really is and why Royals fans have developed this butthurt over the years.

VAChief
07-14-2009, 08:03 PM
Yeah, he's quite skilled at getting lucky bloop hits. I'll give him that.

Uh what hit were you watching?

Frazod
07-14-2009, 08:03 PM
Yeah, he's quite skilled at getting lucky bloop hits. I'll give him that.

Well, he knocked in two and scored the go-ahead run.

Whatever works.

Thig Lyfe
07-14-2009, 08:04 PM
Score again so Greinke is set up for the W!

wild1
07-14-2009, 08:04 PM
There you go Joe

DeezNutz
07-14-2009, 08:04 PM
Damn Braun was slow getting to that ball.

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 08:05 PM
Well, he knocked in two and scored the go-ahead run.

Whatever works.
Yadier is pretty clutch, I think most baseball fans can agree. He's proven it time and again.

Frazod
07-14-2009, 08:06 PM
Yeah, that is not how the STL/KC dynamic works. Not one bit.

Wear a Royals hat in Columbia, MO or Springfield, MO sometime. You'll see how the dynamic really is and why Royals fans have developed this butthurt over the years.

So they're just waiting at the city limits with tar and feathers, right?

Sure-Oz
07-14-2009, 08:06 PM
POO holes doing his billy butler impressions with this d

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 08:06 PM
Uh what hit were you watching?

The bloop hit that Yadier hit up the middle on a 0-2 curve ball at his knees. That hit.

alnorth
07-14-2009, 08:07 PM
Score again so Greinke is set up for the W!

welp, looks like Pujols robbed him

VAChief
07-14-2009, 08:07 PM
Damn Braun was slow getting to that ball.

He gets on my nerves...in the way Gary Carter used to make me want to puke in the 80's as a Cardinal fan. Of course I would've have taken him in a heart beat, but when they play for a rival you hate their guts.

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 08:08 PM
So they're just waiting at the city limits with tar and feathers, right?
I'm serious. Spend one day in a larger MO city that isn't KC or STL and I would bet you $1,000 that no less than three Cardinals fans will talk shit to you.

Frazod
07-14-2009, 08:09 PM
I'm serious. Spend one day in a larger MO city that isn't KC or STL and I would bet you $1,000 that no less than three Cardinals fans will talk shit to you.

Do you really think I've never worn a Royals hat in central Missouri? I grew up there.

Maybe people are just more inclined to give you shit than me. :D

Sure-Oz
07-14-2009, 08:09 PM
Edwin trying to do his greinke impression

VAChief
07-14-2009, 08:09 PM
The bloop hit that Yadier hit up the middle on a 0-2 curve ball at his knees. That hit.

Oh the crisp line drive right up the box on a tough 0-2 pitch. Gotcha.

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 08:11 PM
Do you really think I've never worn a Royals hat in central Missouri? I grew up there.

Maybe people are just more inclined to give you shit than me. :D
Have you done so in the past 15 years? Because I've only observed the phenomenon for ten years or so.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 08:13 PM
Oh the crisp line drive right up the box on a tough 0-2 pitch. Gotcha.

My definition of a crisp line drive is considerably different than yours, I guess. You must watch a lot of shitty NL baseball.

alnorth
07-14-2009, 08:13 PM
Top 6th

Miguel Tejada replaces Billingsley and comes in at SS

Trevor Hoffman relieves Billingsley and replaces Ramirez

Jones flies out to right
Hamilton singles to right
Young grounds into a 4-6-3 double play, Hamilton out at second

0 runs, 1 hit

Bottom 6th

Jason Bartlett replaces Jeter at SS

Curtis Granderson replaces Mauer and comes in at CF

Victor Martinez replaces Teixeira and comes in at C

Justin Morneau replaces Jackson, and comes in at 1B

Felix Hernandez relieves Jackson and replaces Hamilton

Orlando Hudson bats for Utley

Hudson flies out to right
Pujols grounds out to shortstop

Justin Upton bats for Braun

Upton grounds out to shortstop

0 runs, 0 hits

wild1
07-14-2009, 08:14 PM
the "ageless" Tejada

Frazod
07-14-2009, 08:14 PM
Have you done so in the past 15 years? Because I've only observed the phenomenon for ten years or so.

I probably have. Just depends on what I'm wearing. I regularly sport Cards, Chiefs, Mizzou AND Royals stuff. I can't even remember getting dirty looks from anybody.

The only place I encounter this Cards/Royals pissing contest is HERE.

Sure-Oz
07-14-2009, 08:15 PM
great trade by seattle to get erik bedard and give up jones

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 08:15 PM
great trade by seattle to get erik bedard and give up jones
Previous administration. That trade is one of the reasons Bavasi was fired.

Frazod
07-14-2009, 08:15 PM
My definition of a crisp line drive is considerably different than yours, I guess. You must watch a lot of shitty NL baseball.

Is there anybody on your shitty AL team who has a World Series ring other than Scott Rolen?

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 08:15 PM
Is there anybody on your shitty AL team who has a World Series ring other than Scott Rolen?
ROD BARAJAS

My shitty AL team could destroy your NL team, though.

Frazod
07-14-2009, 08:16 PM
ROD BARAJAS

My shitty AL team could destroy your NL team, though.

That's good.

He didn't get it playing in Toronto, though, did he?

EDIT: Didn't see the last part.

To that I say LMAO

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 08:17 PM
That's good.

He didn't get it playing in Toronto, though, did he?

Luis Gonzalez bloop hit.

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 08:18 PM
I probably have. Just depends on what I'm wearing. I regularly sport Cards, Chiefs, Mizzou AND Royals stuff. I can't even remember getting dirty looks from anybody.

The only place I encounter this Cards/Royals pissing contest is HERE.
If your only experience of it is on this board, then I can see where you would think that its just a bunch of jealous Royals fans pissing and moaning.

But when you suffer infinite assholes for years and years not just talking shit on your team but on the city of Kansas City, too... it doesn't engender within you a positive look towards Cards fans.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 08:18 PM
EDIT: Didn't see the last part.

To that I say LMAO
The Jays have a better run differential than the Cards while playing in the toughest division in baseball. They are better. Here's proof if you understand it: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/standings.php

That said...if we trade Halladay to you...yeah that would push it in your favour just a bit. :)

Sure-Oz
07-14-2009, 08:19 PM
Adam Jones looks like Eric Davis

Sure-Oz
07-14-2009, 08:21 PM
nice at bat yuneisky albertcourt

Sure-Oz
07-14-2009, 08:22 PM
lex luthor in the crowd?

VAChief
07-14-2009, 08:24 PM
My definition of a crisp line drive is considerably different than yours, I guess. You must watch a lot of shitty NL baseball.

You said bloop...not an accurate description even by hackneyed wannabe standards. The ball didn't even get over the second basemen's waist as he reached for the ball and took three bounces toward a charging centerfielder. Was it a shot? No, but not a bloop hit. I pitched in college and I have seen plenty of cheap bloop hits, that was just a good piece of hitting whether you want to admit it or not.

Frazod
07-14-2009, 08:24 PM
The Jays have a better run differential than the Cards while playing in the toughest division in baseball. They are better. Here's proof if you understand it: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/standings.php

That said...if we trade Halladay to you...yeah that would push it in your favour just a bit. :)

Yes, your below .500 team just impresses the hell out of me.

RJ
07-14-2009, 08:25 PM
The Jays have a better run differential than the Cards while playing in the toughest division in baseball. They are better. Here's proof if you understand it: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/standings.php

That said...if we trade Halladay to you...yeah that would push it in your favour just a bit. :)


In a 7 game series I'd probably put my $$ on the Cards, assuming they had a healthy Carpenter.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 08:28 PM
In a 7 game series I'd probably put my $$ on the Cards, assuming they had a healthy Carpenter.
Halladay is better than Carpenter....I actually remember when they both came up in the Jays organization, too bad Carp got hurt.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 08:29 PM
Yes, your below .500 team just impresses the hell out of me.
They are below .500 because of the division they play in and the unbalanced schedule that requires them to play the Yankees, Rays, and Red Sox 18 times. As I've just shown you, in any other division they would be a contender.

CHENZ A!
07-14-2009, 08:30 PM
This broad is awful.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 08:30 PM
You said bloop...not an accurate description even by hackneyed wannabe standards. The ball didn't even get over the second basemen's waist as he reached for the ball and took three bounces toward a charging centerfielder. Was it a shot? No, but not a bloop hit. I pitched in college and I have seen plenty of cheap bloop hits, that was just a good piece of hitting whether you want to admit it or not.
I don't think it was. Though if it was, I probably wouldn't admit it at this point anyway.

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 08:30 PM
Sara Evans + HD = eesh

Delano
07-14-2009, 08:31 PM
Sara Evans + HD = eesh

Sheryl Crow + sound = eesh

alnorth
07-14-2009, 08:32 PM
Top 7th

Hudson comes in at 2B

Upton comes in at LF

Adrian Gonzalez replaces Hoffman and comes in at 1B

Jayson Werth replaces Victorino at CF

Francisco Cordero relieves Hoffman and replaces Pujols

Hill flies out to left
Crawford grounds out to shortstop
Morneau lines out to third

Bottom 7th

Jonathan Papelbon relieves Hernandez

Hawpe flies out to left
Tejada flies out to right
Werth strikes out (swinging)

0 runs, 0 hits

VAChief
07-14-2009, 08:32 PM
I don't think it was. Though if it was, I probably wouldn't admit it at this point anyway.

Fair enough...at least you admit to being a poser.

Frazod
07-14-2009, 08:32 PM
They are below .500 because of the division they play in and the unbalanced schedule that requires them to play the Yankees, Rays, and Red Sox 18 times. As I've just shown you, in any other division they would be a contender.

Actually, they're below .500 because they've lost more games than they've won.

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 08:33 PM
Zack had 2 strikeouts in one inning. The only other pitcher in this game with a K is Lincecum, and he faced like 10 or 11 batters.

VonneMarie
07-14-2009, 08:34 PM
ROBBED

MIAdragon
07-14-2009, 08:36 PM
Paps sucks this year. Way to change your arm slot fucko.

VonneMarie
07-14-2009, 08:36 PM
Actually, they're below .500 because they've lost more games than they've won.

LMAO

RJ
07-14-2009, 08:37 PM
Halladay is better than Carpenter....I actually remember when they both came up in the Jays organization, too bad Carp got hurt.


I remember Carpenter as a Jay. Back then he was mediocre on his best days. When he finally started pitching well for the Cards I was sure it was just luck. He's been lucky for a long time now. Yeah, too bad about the injuries.

I'd say Carp on his best night v Halladay on his would be an even matchup, maybe a little edge to Halladay for dominance.

What do Jays fans think of Ricky Romero? He's been lights out lately pitching against some very good lineups. Is he smoke and mirrors or the real deal?

VAChief
07-14-2009, 08:37 PM
Actually, they're below .500 because they've lost more games than they've won.

Winners rarely whine.

MIAdragon
07-14-2009, 08:38 PM
Zack had 2 strikeouts in one inning. The only other pitcher in this game with a K is Lincecum, and he faced like 10 or 11 batters.

yea everyone else sucks.

Chiefspants
07-14-2009, 08:38 PM
hahaha, shot of Zack and Varitek, Zack had this big smile on his face.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 08:40 PM
Fair enough...at least you admit to being a poser.
Yeah...no.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 08:42 PM
Actually, they're below .500 because they've lost more games than they've won.
Let me put it to you this way, because you don't seem to comprehend the factual evidence. If the Cardinals switched places with the Jays, the Cardinals would actually have a worse record than what Toronto currently has. They are a worse team.

Frazod
07-14-2009, 08:45 PM
Let me put it to you this way, because you don't seem to comprehend the factual evidence. If the Cardinals switched places with the Jays, the Cardinals would actually have a worse record than what Toronto currently has. They are a worse team.

My factual evidence says my team is 49-42, and your team is 44-46.

Loser.

alnorth
07-14-2009, 08:45 PM
Top 8th

Heath Bell relieves Cordero

Bartlett grounds out to shortstop
Granderson triples to center
Martinez intentionally walked
Jones sacrifices (fly) to right, Granderson scores

Kevin Youkilis bats for Papelbon

Youkilis singles to center, Martinez to second

Ben Zobrist bats for Young

Zobrist strikes out (swinging)

1 run, 2 hits

Bottom 8th

Joe Nathan relieves Papelbon and replaces Youkilis

Zobrist comes in at 2B

Brandon Inge replaces Hill and comes in at 3B

Brian McCann bats for Molina

McCann fouls out to catcher
Zimmerman flies out to right
Gonzalez walks
Hudson singles to center, Gonzalez to third

Ryan Howard bats for Bell

Orlando Hudson steals second

Howard strikes out (swinging)

0 runs, 1 hit

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 08:46 PM
I remember Carpenter as a Jay. Back then he was mediocre on his best days. When he finally started pitching well for the Cards I was sure it was just luck. He's been lucky for a long time now. Yeah, too bad about the injuries.

Carpenter always had ridiculous stuff. He was never able to harness it and throw strikes until he came to St. Louis. Kind of a pity for the Jays...they could have had quite the combo early in the decade (add Escobar too, if he could have ever stayed healthy).


I'd say Carp on his best night v Halladay on his would be an even matchup, maybe a little edge to Halladay for dominance.
You might be right. I really love the way they both pitch, they kind of remind me of each other. Who knows, they might be teammates in a couple of weeks.


What do Jays fans think of Ricky Romero? He's been lights out lately pitching against some very good lineups. Is he smoke and mirrors or the real deal?
As odd as it is for a stats guy like me to say, I think he has turned his career around due to confidence and mental toughness. In the minors when he had mediocre numbers, he just didn't seem to believe in his stuff like he does now. Now...I don't believe he'll continue with a sub 3 ERA in this division, but I think he can be a #2/#3 type guy for years for the Jays. His peripheral stats are fine, and don't indicate that significant of a dropoff.

alnorth
07-14-2009, 08:47 PM
and now I am finally caught up. I always lag the middle of spring training and all-star games because of all the lineup changes to track down.

VAChief
07-14-2009, 08:47 PM
Let me put it to you this way, because you don't seem to comprehend the factual evidence. If the Cardinals switched places with the Jays, the Cardinals would actually have a worse record than what Toronto currently has. They are a worse team.

That may be in the top 10 stupidest arguments ever made on this BB (at least sports related). You actually think you can compare stats and records in different leagues and make definitive statements like that? Bottom line is your team has lost more than they have won.

Finally....There is no crying in baseball!

Archie F. Swin
07-14-2009, 08:47 PM
Heath Bell has a delivery like a ballerina on meth

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 08:48 PM
My factual evidence says my team is 49-42, and your team is 44-46.

Yes, you've proved your team has a winning record in a terrible league and division. Good stuff.

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 08:49 PM
YAY. L. on top 4-3

RJ
07-14-2009, 08:49 PM
The lone Oriole comes through with the RBI.

Delano
07-14-2009, 08:50 PM
Nathan and Rivera.

Good luck NL.

Delano
07-14-2009, 08:50 PM
Mauer for MVP!

Frazod
07-14-2009, 08:50 PM
Yes, you've proved your team has a winning record in a terrible league and division. Good stuff.

So you're saying that your team is better because they've played a tougher schedule against better competition, despite their record? Is that correct?

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 08:51 PM
That may be in the top 10 stupidest arguments ever made on this BB (at least sports related). You actually think you can compare stats and records in different leagues and make definitive statements like that? Bottom line is your team has lost more than they have won.
I know the NL is a considerably worse league than the AL (particularly the AL East). I know that the Jays have a better run differential than the Cardinals despite that (in case you don't know, that means the Jays are better at scoring/preventing runs than the Cardinals). What more do you want?

Pointing out that the Jays have a losing record is pointless to me, because if you moved that Cardinals team to our division they would actually be worse.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 08:52 PM
Why are all these crappy Tampa guys like Ben Zobrist on the All Star team?

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 08:52 PM
Why are all these crappy Tampa guys like Ben Zobrist on the All Star team?
Because they aren't crappy at all.

Delano
07-14-2009, 08:53 PM
Why are all these crappy Tampa guys like Ben Zobrist on the All Star team?

http://toolofignorance.mlblogs.com/devile-rays-manager-joe-maddon-ap.jpg

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 08:53 PM
So you're saying that your team is better because they've played a tougher schedule against better competition, despite their record? Is that correct?
No, not quite. Read over those adjusted standings again and my comments...you'll get it.

I probably shouldn't have even gotten into this argument in the first place (you can't get into an argument with somebody who doesn't have the same knowledge base that I do), but sometimes I have this need to correct ignorance or misinformation. It's a flaw of mine.

RJ
07-14-2009, 08:54 PM
As odd as it is for a stats guy like me to say, I think he has turned his career around due to confidence and mental toughness. In the minors when he had mediocre numbers, he just didn't seem to believe in his stuff like he does now. Now...I don't believe he'll continue with a sub 3 ERA in this division, but I think he can be a #2/#3 type guy for years for the Jays. His peripheral stats are fine, and don't indicate that significant of a dropoff.


I agree, he's probably due a 2nd half statistical correction. But this season will probably put him on the good side of the learning curve going forward.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 08:54 PM
Why are all these crappy Tampa guys like Ben Zobrist on the All Star team?
Maybe you should check Zobrist's numbers this year.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 08:54 PM
Because they aren't crappy at all.

I have a really hard time believing Ben Zobrist and Jason Bartlett deserve to be on the all star team.

Frazod
07-14-2009, 08:55 PM
No, not quite. Read over those adjusted standings again and my comments...you'll get it.

I probably shouldn't have even gotten into this argument in the first place (you can't get into an argument with somebody who doesn't have the same knowledge base that I do), but sometimes I have this need to correct ignorance or misinformation. It's a flaw of mine.

So then, you admit that my team is better. Okay.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 08:55 PM
I agree, he's probably due a 2nd half statistical correction. But this season will probably put him on the good side of the learning curve going forward.
Indeed. I was actually angry when the Jays gave him a starting job this year after his failures in the minors. I didn't think what he was doing right now was possible.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 08:55 PM
Maybe you should check Zobrist's numbers this year.

Maybe I should I remember him as a career backup that bats about 250 with 2 Hr's.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 08:55 PM
So then, you admit that my team is better. Okay.
The only NL team better than the Jays right now is the Dodgers.

VAChief
07-14-2009, 08:56 PM
Here are some fun facts:

Jays 2009 "winning" percentage vs. NL .388

Cards 2009 winning percentage vs. AL .600

I guess maybe the Cards would be better off in the AL.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 08:56 PM
Maybe I should I remember him as a career backup that bats about 250 with 2 Hr's.
True. I suppose it all depends on your perspective of what an All-Star game should be about.

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 08:56 PM
I have a really hard time believing Ben Zobrist and Jason Bartlett deserve to be on the all star team.
If you've got an argument for players that should have went instead of them, lay it out.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 08:57 PM
Here are some fun facts:

Jays 2009 "winning" percentage vs. NL .388

Cards 2009 winning percentage vs. AL .600

I guess maybe the Cards would be better off in the AL.

Shit, you've really proved me wrong there! You have to love those 18 game sample sizes to prove arguments.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 08:58 PM
If you've got an argument for players that should have went instead of them, lay it out.
Scutaro could have gone, but he's just as much of a former scrub as those two.

VAChief
07-14-2009, 08:58 PM
The only NL team better than the Jays right now is the Dodgers.

Check your stats against the NL and tell me how that crow tastes.

Frazod
07-14-2009, 08:58 PM
The only NL team better than the Jays right now is the Dodgers.

And eight other teams who have better records.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 08:58 PM
If you've got an argument for players that should have went instead of them, lay it out.

I admit I haven't really been following baseball that closely this year, I didn't play any fantasy etc.

So when I looked up and saw Bartlett, Zobrist and Jayson Werth knowing what I know of them in the past I was like WTF?

Especially knowing how deep SS and OF has been in the past years...

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 08:58 PM
Here are some fun facts:

Jays 2009 "winning" percentage vs. NL .388

Cards 2009 winning percentage vs. AL .600

I guess maybe the Cards would be better off in the AL.
The Cards got to play the AL Central. That division doesn't exactly have any world-beaters in it.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 08:59 PM
And eight other teams who have better records.

I'm afraid you still haven't gotten the crux of my argument. I was right. It was a waste of my time and yours.

RJ
07-14-2009, 09:00 PM
Heath Bell has a delivery like a ballerina on meth


What a great description, I like that.

VAChief
07-14-2009, 09:01 PM
Shit, you've really proved me wrong there! You have to love those 18 game sample sizes to prove arguments.

Oh small sample sizes only work if you get to pick and choose. Convenient. You would have an argument if you were over .500 in a tough division, beat up on the inferior NL, etc. You can't claim you are better when flat out haven't beat anyone.

RJ
07-14-2009, 09:01 PM
I have a really hard time believing Ben Zobrist and Jason Bartlett deserve to be on the all star team.



The numbers say they do, especially Zobrist.

Hootie
07-14-2009, 09:03 PM
Why are all these crappy Tampa guys like Ben Zobrist on the All Star team?

did you look at Zobrist's numbers before you spouted off this nonsense? He's been a monster this year and the first month he was a part time player.

Frazod
07-14-2009, 09:03 PM
I'm afraid you still haven't gotten the crux of my argument. I was right. It was a waste of my time and yours.

No, I get it. You resent the fact that your team has to play the Yankees and Red Sox while mine plays Milwaukee and the Cubs. I get that.

Sort like how a certain other team I remember somehow gained an advantage by ducking all the tough competition. And that faggoty team of pretenders actually managed to weasel a BCS berth out of it!

O the injustice of it all!

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 09:03 PM
Oh small sample sizes only work if you get to pick and choose. Convenient. You would have an argument if you were over .500 in a tough division, beat up on the inferior NL, etc. You can't claim you are better when flat out haven't beat anyone.
Check the link, it takes strength of schedule into account. Really, it's all there.

Hootie
07-14-2009, 09:03 PM
I have a really hard time believing Ben Zobrist and Jason Bartlett deserve to be on the all star team.

watch some baseball this year...idiot

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 09:04 PM
No, I get it. You resent the fact that your team has to play the Yankees and Red Sox while mine plays Milwaukee and the Cubs. I get that.

Something like that.


Sort like how a certain other team I remember somehow gained an advantage by ducking all the tough competition. And that pillowbitery team of pretenders actually managed to weasel a BCS berth out of it!

O the injustice of it all!
I've never said that Mizzou didn't get screwed that season.

Frazod
07-14-2009, 09:04 PM
watch some baseball this year...idiot

So, do the Cubs still have no weaknesses?

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 09:05 PM
No, I get it. You resent the fact that your team has to play the Yankees and Red Sox while mine plays Milwaukee and the Cubs. I get that.

Sort like how a certain other team I remember somehow gained an advantage by ducking all the tough competition. And that faggoty team of pretenders actually managed to weasel a BCS berth out of it!

O the injustice of it all!
i c wut u did there

Hootie
07-14-2009, 09:06 PM
P.S.

This is why I don't respect Mecca...at all.

He has an opinion on everything...no matter what...and I guarantee he watches nearly NO baseball...especially after he made those comments about Bartlett and Zobrist...two very deserving all-stars...

He had no idea who Zobrist even was (my guess) and after he was owned by actually looking at the stats he starts throwing out some jibber jabber about a career backup SS yada yada ya...

Dude, if Tony Pena Jr. his .380 and was an everyday player...he'd be an all-star that year...regardless of what he did prior to that season or how bad he sucks or how big of a fluke he is...

but hey, lets hear why you're not wrong now...I bet you've watched a ton of baseball games this year!

Frazod
07-14-2009, 09:06 PM
I've never said that Mizzou didn't get screwed that season.

Good thing professional baseball has a playoff system, eh? Sort of evens these things out in the end.

VAChief
07-14-2009, 09:06 PM
Shit, you've really proved me wrong there! You have to love those 18 game sample sizes to prove arguments.

Okay a little larger sample size over time:

"Toronto’s 106-121 mark all-time in interleague play ranks 12th among AL teams while their pitching staff’s 4.96 ERA in interleague play this year stood ahead of only the lowly Cleveland Indians."

Mecca
07-14-2009, 09:06 PM
Ah Hootie is here how exciting.

Delano
07-14-2009, 09:07 PM
Joe does that on occasion.

Nice work, buddy.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 09:08 PM
Does anyone on the forum care if Hootie respects them....I don't think so.

Frazod
07-14-2009, 09:08 PM
Okay a little larger sample size over time:

"Toronto’s 106-121 mark all-time in interleague play ranks 12th among AL teams while their pitching staff’s 4.96 ERA in interleague play this year stood ahead of only the lowly Cleveland Indians."

But.... but.... I heard Toronto was great!

I'm sure I saw some stats that prove it! ROFL

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 09:08 PM
I will say one thing. Reesing will destroy them again this year.

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Hootie
07-14-2009, 09:08 PM
So, do the Cubs still have no weaknesses?

Meh. Harden has really upset me...and Soriano needs to stay in the 5 or 6 hole...losing ARam was a big loss...

But I'd be willing to bet they'll be right there with the Cards at the end...I mean, they have played NO OFFENSE whatsoever this year and are only 3.5 back...and as good as Franklin has been for my fantasy teams I doubt he can keep being lights out the way he has...he's simply not THAT great...

Would I bet that the Cubs win the division this year? No. The Cards are a better team this year.

Is Milton Bradley as bad as you guys are making him out to be? No...he still has an .OBP of around .38 and he ain't hitting for shit...it's only a matter of time before he starts hitting as long as he stays healthy.

VonneMarie
07-14-2009, 09:08 PM
Is anyone actually talking about the All-Star game?

VAChief
07-14-2009, 09:08 PM
The Cards got to play the AL Central. That division doesn't exactly have any world-beaters in it.

Maybe, but they did lose a series to the Nationals, arguably the worst team in baseball this season if not a challenger to the 62 Mets. Not exactly a statement for someone whining like a little girl that the big bad AL East isn't fair.

Hootie
07-14-2009, 09:09 PM
Ah Hootie is here how exciting.

you just asked why a guy with an OPS over 1.000 and 12 SB's was an all-star...

enough said.

alnorth
07-14-2009, 09:09 PM
Top 9th

Francisco "K-Rod" Rodriguez relieves Bell and replaces Howard

McCann comes in at C

Inge grounds out to shortstop
Crawford strikes out (swinging)
Morneau flies out to center

0 runs, 0 hits

Bottom 9th

Mariano Rivera relieves Nathan

Upton grounds out to shortstop
Hawpe strikes out (looking)
Tejada pops out to second

0 runs, 0 hits

American League wins, 4-3

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 09:09 PM
Okay a little larger sample size over time:

"Toronto’s 106-121 mark all-time in interleague play ranks 12th among AL teams while their pitching staff’s 4.96 ERA in interleague play this year stood ahead of only the lowly Cleveland Indians."
Toronto is the aberration here. AL teams routinely dominate NL teams in Interleague play.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 09:11 PM
And then I said I haven't been following baseball did you miss that part?

Hootie he who can't read.

Frazod
07-14-2009, 09:11 PM
Toronto is the aberration here. AL teams routinely dominate NL teams in Interleague play.

So stats that don't work in your favor are "aberrations"?

I'm beginning to see a pattern here.....

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 09:11 PM
Is anyone actually talking about the All-Star game?

Rivera is about to close out the NL and prove our dominance again like every year. It's nothing new.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 09:13 PM
Rivera is about to close out the NL and prove our dominance again like every year. It's nothing new.

It's quite exciting stuff, and it already feels like the baseball season has drug on forever.

Frazod
07-14-2009, 09:13 PM
Rivera is about to close out the NL and prove our dominance again like every year. It's nothing new.

Do the Phillies play in the AL? I guess they must, since they're defending World Champs.

RJ
07-14-2009, 09:14 PM
Is anyone actually talking about the All-Star game?


The what?

L.A. Chieffan
07-14-2009, 09:14 PM
lol who gives a shit about who wins the allstar game?

Hootie
07-14-2009, 09:14 PM
who the eff are they going to give the MVP to?

Granderson?

The closer for the AL?

I mean...

seriously

Hootie
07-14-2009, 09:14 PM
lol who gives a shit about who wins the allstar game?

the two teams that make the WS

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 09:14 PM
THIS ARGUMENT IS BUTT

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 09:14 PM
So stats that don't work in your favor are "aberrations"?
I'm beginning to see a pattern here.....
How the Jays have competed in Interleague before this year isn't relevant for two reasons. The first is that the sample size is far too small (still), and the second is that the Jays have had considerably different and worse teams than the one they have right now.

What's relevant is that the Jays have been one of the better teams in baseball this year despite their record, which is all I ever argued.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 09:15 PM
Good thing professional baseball has a playoff system, eh? Sort of evens these things out in the end.
The playoffs are a crapshoot. That's why the Cardinals won in 2006. Everybody knows that.

L.A. Chieffan
07-14-2009, 09:15 PM
the two teams that make the WS

yeah im sure when they get there they give the members of the allstar team shit for not winning right?

VAChief
07-14-2009, 09:16 PM
Toronto is the aberration here. AL teams routinely dominate NL teams in Interleague play.

I'm not sure how that supports your theory that your team only sucks because of the division they play in if they suck against the "inferior" NL as well.

Frazod
07-14-2009, 09:16 PM
the two teams that make the WS

Actually, the AL having home field advantage allowed the Cardinals to win the World Series at home last time. So in that year, I really didn't have a problem with it.

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 09:16 PM
SHUT UP

Hootie
07-14-2009, 09:16 PM
yeah im sure when they get there they give the members of the allstar team shit for not winning right?

you do realize the league that wins gets homefield advantage for the WS, right?

Mecca
07-14-2009, 09:16 PM
How long is this Jays/Cardinals argument going to go?

The AL is stronger teams like Tampa and Toronto would be division leaders in the NL.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 09:17 PM
Maybe, but they did lose a series to the Nationals, arguably the worst team in baseball this season if not a challenger to the 62 Mets. Not exactly a statement for someone whining like a little girl that the big bad AL East isn't fair.
The Jays haven't made the playoffs in 16 years, and it's solely because of the division to play in. It's pretty obvious that it isn't fair.

L.A. Chieffan
07-14-2009, 09:17 PM
you do realize the league that wins gets homefield advantage for the WS, right?

thats what i just said. do you think the members of this allstar team really give a shit

Frazod
07-14-2009, 09:17 PM
The playoffs are a crapshoot. That's why the Cardinals won in 2006. Everybody knows that.

No, getting selected to play by some fucking committee is a crapshoot.

Advancing by actually winning on the field is how it's supposed to be done.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 09:18 PM
I'm not sure how that supports your theory that your team only sucks because of the division they play in if they suck against the "inferior" NL as well.
It kind of supports my argument that the NL sucks, but it's not proof I would use, because the sample size is still too small.

VAChief
07-14-2009, 09:18 PM
The playoffs are a crapshoot. That's why the Cardinals won in 2006. Everybody knows that.

Of course getting everyone healthy at the right time doesn't hurt either there Einstein. I guess we should give "particpation" awards to teams like the Jays.

Hootie
07-14-2009, 09:18 PM
How long is this Jays/Cardinals argument going to go?

The AL is stronger teams like Tampa and Toronto would be division leaders in the NL.

Yawn. You have no idea about that...the Rays have had shitty pitching all year long...that's why they aren't doing that well.

The AL and NL are also very different leagues because of the DH...the AL dominates interleague because they pay for a DH...so instead of using a 4th OF as a DH in AL parks like NL teams do...they have a cleanup hitter being paid like a cleanup hitter...

Frazod
07-14-2009, 09:19 PM
SHUT UP

Who?

Mecca
07-14-2009, 09:19 PM
It'll be nice when football season starts.

Delano
07-14-2009, 09:19 PM
[Insert comment about Mariano Rivera and broken bats]

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 09:19 PM
No, getting selected to play by some ****ing committee is a crapshoot.

Advancing by actually winning on the field is how it's supposed to be done.
Playing out an 162 game season is a better indicator of who the best team is than the crapshoot that is the MLB playoffs.

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 09:19 PM
Who?
This whole Jays/Cards/AL vs NL thing. Its pointless.

RJ
07-14-2009, 09:20 PM
Did you know....

Jayson Werth's stepdad was former Royal Dennis Werth?

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 09:20 PM
Yawn. You have no idea about that...the Rays have had shitty pitching all year long...that's why they aren't doing that well.

The AL and NL are also very different leagues because of the DH...the AL dominates interleague because they pay for a DH...so instead of using a 4th OF as a DH in AL parks like NL teams do...they have a cleanup hitter being paid like a cleanup hitter...

You are an idiot, Hootie. The Rays have the best run differential in baseball, and their pitching is very good.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 09:20 PM
This whole Jays/Cards/AL vs NL thing. Its pointless.

It's only stretched on for over 200 posts now...I think it's dead.

Frazod
07-14-2009, 09:20 PM
Playing out an 162 game season is a better indicator of who the best team is than the crapshoot that is the MLB playoffs.

So you don't think there should be a playoff system?

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 09:21 PM
13 straight All-Star games with no wins for the NL. It's PROOF

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 09:21 PM
13 in a row. lololol

Mecca
07-14-2009, 09:21 PM
You are an idiot, Hootie. The Rays have the best run differential in baseball, and their pitching is very good.

And he called me stupid...

Hootie
07-14-2009, 09:21 PM
Playing out an 162 game season is a better indicator of who the best team is than the crapshoot that is the MLB playoffs.

Now, I totally agree with this.

If you put the worst team in the AL/NL (like the Royals/Pirates) in the playoffs every year...I bet they'd advance every once in a while and every once in a GREAT WHILE they'd even win it all...

It is a crapshoot unlike the NBA...

Which is why the NFL is so awesome. It's not a complete crapshoot like baseball, but you don't already know what's going to happen like the NBA.

VAChief
07-14-2009, 09:21 PM
No, getting selected to play by some ****ing committee is a crapshoot.

Advancing by actually winning on the field is how it's supposed to be done.

No, that would be unfair. It should be subjective, chosen by how close you got to the "elite" teams like the Orioles and Nats.:)

MIAdragon
07-14-2009, 09:22 PM
Why are all these crappy Tampa guys like Ben Zobrist on the All Star team?

lmao

Hootie
07-14-2009, 09:23 PM
You are an idiot, Hootie. The Rays have the best run differential in baseball, and their pitching is very good.

They have James Shields...Kazmir has been shit and their bullpen has been shaky. They were so good last year because they had studly pitching...

Frazod
07-14-2009, 09:23 PM
This whole Jays/Cards/AL vs NL thing. Its pointless.

I'm having great fun here.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 09:23 PM
lmao

I already clarified that I am not closely following baseball and what I know of Ben Zobrist is what he was before this year so I double taked at him being on the all star team.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 09:24 PM
So you don't think there should be a playoff system?
I think two teams should make the World Series. The team with the best record in either league. Then play out a best of 11 game series or something like that. It takes out the luck factor that is the playoffs, and rewards the good teams.

Hootie
07-14-2009, 09:24 PM
who the frick is going to be the MVP?

I mean...

really?

KChiefs1
07-14-2009, 09:24 PM
good game.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 09:25 PM
They have James Shields...Kazmir has been shit and their bullpen has been shaky. They were so good last year because they had studly pitching...
Matt Garza?

Hootie
07-14-2009, 09:25 PM
I think two teams should make the World Series. The team with the best record in either league. Then play out a best of 11 game series or something like that. It takes out the luck factor that is the playoffs, and rewards the good teams.

well that would be dumb as shit as well...

They have it right right now...it's just a crapshoot...that's how it is...better players/more parity/bigger crapshoot...still entertaining.

alnorth
07-14-2009, 09:25 PM
I think I can resolve this argument once and for all. Are you ready?

Look at the league logos up top. American league eagle perched on the baseball, majestic, noble, fearless, strong.

What the hell is that National League logo? That square golden bird-thing is the lamest thing I've ever seen on a logo, and is indicative of the league's weakness.

Hootie
07-14-2009, 09:25 PM
Matt Garza?

Yeah, he's been ok but nothing spectacular...shit, he has similar numbers to Brian Bannister for god's sake.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 09:25 PM
Crawfords the MVP.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 09:26 PM
Now, I totally agree with this.

If you put the worst team in the AL/NL (like the Royals/Pirates) in the playoffs every year...I bet they'd advance every once in a while and every once in a GREAT WHILE they'd even win it all...

It is a crapshoot unlike the NBA...

Which is why the NFL is so awesome. It's not a complete crapshoot like baseball, but you don't already know what's going to happen like the NBA.
I'm fine with the playoff system in the NBA. The best teams almost always make it there.

Hootie
07-14-2009, 09:26 PM
Crawfords the MVP.

what did he do? I'm just following the box...have it DVR's for later...was it something on defense?

VAChief
07-14-2009, 09:27 PM
Now, I totally agree with this.

If you put the worst team in the AL/NL (like the Royals/Pirates) in the playoffs every year...I bet they'd advance every once in a while and every once in a GREAT WHILE they'd even win it all...

It is a crapshoot unlike the NBA...

Which is why the NFL is so awesome. It's not a complete crapshoot like baseball, but you don't already know what's going to happen like the NBA.

Uh not likely with all the extra rounds. They are in last usually for very good reasons, they rarely win and don't usually have a No. 1 or even credible No.2 starter. Could they win a short series, sure some could. The Royals this year for instance (because of a guy like Zach).

With that logic the Chiefs would have a couple of Super Bowls. Part of being a champion is actually going out and proving it when it counts!

Mecca
07-14-2009, 09:27 PM
what did he do? I'm just following the box...have it DVR's for later...was it something on defense?

He made a pretty awesome catch right up by the wall in the 7th.

Frazod
07-14-2009, 09:27 PM
I think two teams should make the World Series. The team with the best record in either league. Then play out a best of 11 game series or something like that. It takes out the luck factor that is the playoffs, and rewards the good teams.

In baseball, it would just reward the teams that spend the most money.

Do you really want the World Series to be New York vs. Los Angeles every year?

Hootie
07-14-2009, 09:27 PM
I'm fine with the playoff system in the NBA. The best teams almost always make it there.

No surprise...teams play 25 games to get there but you always know who's going to be there at the end...

I like it and all...the NBA playoffs > March Madness if you ask me...

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 09:27 PM
well that would be dumb as shit as well...

They have it right right now...it's just a crapshoot...that's how it is...better players/more parity/bigger crapshoot...still entertaining.

Or even do what they used to do. Take out the wild card, and bring back the balanced schedule (yeah, I'm biased).

alnorth
07-14-2009, 09:28 PM
what did he do? I'm just following the box...have it DVR's for later...was it something on defense?

game-saving catch. I think he robbed a home run or something

Hootie
07-14-2009, 09:28 PM
He made a pretty awesome catch right up by the wall in the 7th.

I figured...I told my friends who are playing Halo that whoever wins it probably had to do something on defense...

Sure-Oz
07-14-2009, 09:28 PM
I already clarified that I am not closely following baseball and what I know of Ben Zobrist is what he was before this year so I double taked at him being on the all star team.

His ops is probably over 1.000 if i remember, hes been a huge surprise this year.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 09:28 PM
Uh not likely with all the extra rounds. They are in last usually for very good reasons, they rarely win and don't usually have a No. 1 or even credible No.2 starter. Could they win a short series, sure some could. The Royals this year for instance (because of a guy like Zach).

With that logic the Chiefs would have a couple of Super Bowls. Part of being a champion is actually going out and proving it when it counts!

It's hard to win as a sneak in, in football because of how important the bye and homefield is.

DeezNutz
07-14-2009, 09:29 PM
I hope terrorists don't see video of Obama's throw.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 09:29 PM
In baseball, it would just reward the teams that spend the most money.

Do you really want the World Series to be New York vs. Los Angeles every year?

It would reward the best teams (who generally tend to be the most expensive ones). I'd be fine with that, yeah. The owners that put the most money in their teams should be rewarded, and the teams that don't (Toronto, KC) shouldn't be.

VAChief
07-14-2009, 09:29 PM
I think two teams should make the World Series. The team with the best record in either league. Then play out a best of 11 game series or something like that. It takes out the luck factor that is the playoffs, and rewards the good teams.

Great the Cards would have probably two other WS wins for the best records and get to play the Yankmee chokers.

RJ
07-14-2009, 09:30 PM
who the frick is going to be the MVP?

I mean...

really?


Greinke was screwed again!

Mecca
07-14-2009, 09:31 PM
His ops is probably over 1.000 if i remember, hes been a huge surprise this year.

How did this happen, I remember him as a guy who couldn't hit....

Hootie
07-14-2009, 09:31 PM
It would reward the best teams (who generally tend to be the most expensive ones). I'd be fine with that, yeah. The owners that put the most money in their teams should be rewarded, and the teams that don't (Toronto, KC) shouldn't be.

wow your logic is deeply, deeply flawed

I had so much respect for the way Tampa Bay did it last year...

and zero respect for the Yankees...

They continuously build their teams wrong, and have spent billions of dollars on payroll since their last WS...and it's great.

The Rays have set the blueprint for how to build a baseball team.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 09:33 PM
wow your logic is deeply, deeply flawed

I had so much respect for the way Tampa Bay did it last year...

and zero respect for the Yankees...

They continuously build their teams wrong, and have spent billions of dollars on payroll since their last WS...and it's great.

The Rays have set the blueprint for how to build a baseball team.

How the hell is my logic flawed? I just want the best teams in baseball with the best records to have the opportunity to play for the World Series without going through the crapshoot that is 2 rounds of playoffs. If that's the Rays (and it very well could be this year), then that's fine.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 09:33 PM
BTW, I have immense respect for an owner like George Steinbrenner who actually gives a shit about winning games. There aren't many owners in sports like him.

alanm
07-14-2009, 09:41 PM
I think I can resolve this argument once and for all. Are you ready?

Look at the league logos up top. American league eagle perched on the baseball, majestic, noble, fearless, strong.

What the hell is that National League logo? That square golden bird-thing is the lamest thing I've ever seen on a logo, and is indicative of the league's weakness.Works for me. :D

alanm
07-14-2009, 09:44 PM
BTW, I have immense respect for an owner like George Steinbrenner who actually gives a shit about winning games. There aren't many owners in sports like him.Steinbrenner is the MAIN reason baseball is as f*cked up as it is today.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 09:48 PM
Steinbrenner is the MAIN reason baseball is as f*cked up as it is today.
Stop whining. I'm the fan of a team that has been affected by Steinbrenner's spending more than anybody, but I don't blame him for it. I'd love to have an owner that actually cares about winning as opposed to making money.

Frazod
07-14-2009, 09:49 PM
It would reward the best teams (who generally tend to be the most expensive ones). I'd be fine with that, yeah. The owners that put the most money in their teams should be rewarded, and the teams that don't (Toronto, KC) shouldn't be.

Well, I'm glad you've learned to accept sucking Yankee ass forever, but I'd just as soon see my team win it all once in a while.

Hootie
07-14-2009, 09:50 PM
Stop whining. I'm the fan of a team that has been affected by Steinbrenner's spending more than anybody, but I don't blame him for it. I'd love to have an owner that actually cares about winning as opposed to making money.

You don't think Steinbrenner cares about making money/you don't think the Yankees make a nice hefty profit every season?

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 09:52 PM
You don't think Steinbrenner cares about making money/you don't think the Yankees make a nice hefty profit every season?
I didn't deny either of those things. I just see no reason to whine about an owner who puts money into his team. It's exactly what every owner should be doing in baseball. The goal is to win.

RJ
07-14-2009, 09:53 PM
How did this happen, I remember him as a guy who couldn't hit....


He's 28, in the peak years for baseball players.

Up to this season, he only had about 500 major league at bats over parts of three seasons.

He's on a good team, playing every day, surrounded by good hitters.

He had always hit for good average and OBP in the minors. The pop in the bat probably just came with age.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 09:53 PM
Well, I'm glad you've learned to accept sucking Yankee ass forever, but I'd just as soon see my team win it all once in a while.
Uh...there's no reason it couldn't be the Jays, they just have to build a good enough team to do it. They did it in 1992 and 1993.

Hootie
07-14-2009, 09:54 PM
I didn't deny either of those things. I just see no reason to whine about an owner who puts money into his team. It's exactly what every owner should be doing in baseball. The goal is to win.

well I bet you'd really like playing in a poker game where your opponent gets dealt a joker every hand...

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 09:55 PM
well I bet you'd really like playing in a poker game where your opponent gets dealt a joker every hand...
It would be great to have a salary cap, but until that happens, owners should have every right to put as much money as they want into their teams. Whining about it is just stupid.

DJJasonp
07-14-2009, 09:56 PM
Stop whining. I'm the fan of a team that has been affected by Steinbrenner's spending more than anybody, but I don't blame him for it. I'd love to have an owner that actually cares about winning as opposed to making money.

agree 100%....but with that said....a cap has worked really well for NFL (and to a certain extent, the NBA as well).

Bottom line is - with the NFL and NBA, the common fan can usually name 2-4 players on each team. In the MLB, how many East coasters know names of players on the: Royals, Twins, Brewers, Rockies, Diamondbacks, Padres, etc. etc.?

The cap (for the MLB and NBA) sells more jerseys, hats, etc. - and sells more tickets for home/road games. Granted, you dont get 81 home games, but in the NBA and MLB, organizations arent waiting on home games against the likes of the Red Sox and Yankees to put butts in seats.

Again, there's only 16 NFL games (maybe 18 soon) - but look at Sunday Ticket and the revenue it generates through DirecTV.

How many non-Red Sox, Yankees, Cubs out-of-market fans are making purchases of MLB extra innings?

Cap is a win-win situation for everyone - owners included.

Update: did some quick research.... in 2007, DirecTV had 1.4 million Sunday Ticket subscribers (total of around $400 million).

In 2007, MLB extra innings subscribers were around 500,000 (for a heck of a lot more games than NFL package)

Hootie
07-14-2009, 09:56 PM
Uh...there's no reason it couldn't be the Jays, they just have to build a good enough team to do it. They did it in 1992 and 1993.

The Jays will never compete in that division...won't happen.

If I were a Jays fan...I'd fucking loathe the Yankees and Red Sox. The fact Tampa built the perfect team doing it the RIGHT WAY is very fucking impressive.

Hootie
07-14-2009, 09:57 PM
It would be great to have a salary cap, but until that happens, owners should have every right to put as much money as they want into their teams. Whining about it is just stupid.

I'll whine what I want to whine about...

Baseball used to be my favorite sport until the Yankees ruined it...

What they do is just ridiculous...it's always very gratifying when they lose and fuck up...Cashman is a terrible GM.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 09:58 PM
The Jays will never compete in that division...won't happen.

If I were a Jays fan...I'd ****ing loathe the Yankees and Red Sox.

I hate them both a lot. But that doesn't mean I don't or can't respect the way they do business.

And if the Jays build a good enough team around draft picks, it could happen.


The fact Tampa built the perfect team doing it the RIGHT WAY is very ****ing impressive.
I respect the way they've done it, too.

Frazod
07-14-2009, 09:59 PM
Uh...there's no reason it couldn't be the Jays, they just have to build a good enough team to do it. They did it in 1992 and 1993.

That was 92 and 93. The way it is now, there's no way Toronto will ever be able to go toe-to-toe with the largest city and fanbase in America in the system you advocate. It's like gambling at a casino - if you do it long enough, eventually the house will win.

You get in as a wild card and hope you can knock them off. Or, in the case of my team, you get in winning a weaker division and then dump the favorites if you can. Beating the fucking Mets in New York in front of 40,000 arrogant New York assholes meant almost as much as winning the World Series a week later.

And whether the team wins 83 regular season games or 120, if you win the World Series, the trophy looks just the same.

RJ
07-14-2009, 10:00 PM
The Jays will never compete in that division...won't happen.

If I were a Jays fan...I'd ****ing loathe the Yankees and Red Sox. The fact Tampa built the perfect team doing it the RIGHT WAY is very ****ing impressive.


Watch the Orioles in 2 years. They have great young pitching coming up and a solid nucleus in the everyday lineup. With a couple of good FA signings they will give the Yanks and Red Sox some trouble.

I have faith.

Hootie
07-14-2009, 10:00 PM
Baseball needs a "franchise" tag...just like the NFL.

You should be pissed the Blue Jays are forced to trade a guy like Halladay...fan favorite, been there from the get go...a perennial Cy Young candidate...and why? Because having him is useless since the Jays can't compete in that division...might as well stock up on young talent and pray you slip into a Rays situation.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 10:02 PM
That was 92 and 93. The way it is now, there's no way Toronto will ever be able to go toe-to-toe with the largest city and fanbase in America in the system you advocate. It's like gambling at a casino - if you do it long enough, eventually the house will win.

You get in as a wild card and hope you can knock them off. Or, in the case of my team, you get in winning a weaker division and then dump the favorites if you can. Beating the ****ing Mets in New York in front of 40,000 arrogant New York assholes meant almost as much as winning the World Series a week later.

And whether the team wins 83 regular season games or 120, if you win the World Series, the trophy looks just the same.

As the Rays showed last year, you don't need money to be one of the best teams in baseball (and yes, they were better than New York and Boston, and may be better than them this year with that best run differential). It just helps...a lot.

Hootie
07-14-2009, 10:02 PM
Watch the Orioles in 2 years. They have great young pitching coming up and a solid nucleus in the everyday lineup. With a couple of good FA signings they will give the Yanks and Red Sox some trouble.

I have faith.
but the deck will always be stacked because the chances of both of those teams having down years is slim and none...90% of the time one is going to win at least 95 games...80% of the time both of them are going to win 90 games or more...at least with the Royals they play in a pretty equal market division.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 10:03 PM
Baseball needs a "franchise" tag...just like the NFL.

You should be pissed the Blue Jays are forced to trade a guy like Halladay...fan favorite, been there from the get go...a perennial Cy Young candidate...and why? Because having him is useless since the Jays can't compete in that division...might as well stock up on young talent and pray you slip into a Rays situation.
What do you mean "should be" pissed? I am pissed. I'm pissed at our owner, I'm pissed at the system, I'm pissed at our luck. I'm not pissed at Steinbrenner, though.

Hootie
07-14-2009, 10:03 PM
As the Rays showed last year, you don't need money to be one of the best teams in baseball (and yes, they were better than New York and Boston, and may be better than them this year with that best run differential). It just helps...a lot.

yeah well good luck finding another team like Tampa Bay (or Milwaukee for that matter) that continuously finds great talent in the draft...what makes you think Toronto has that scouting?

Seriously...it sucks...but teams like Toronto/Baltimore...there season is over before it starts...makes it hard to be a fan.

Frazod
07-14-2009, 10:05 PM
Baseball needs a salary cap in the worst way.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 10:07 PM
yeah well good luck finding another team like Tampa Bay (or Milwaukee for that matter) that continuously finds great talent in the draft...what makes you think Toronto has that scouting?

Toronto won 87 games last year in the AL East with one of the worst offenses in baseball. If they improved that team even a little bit (heck, if they signed Barry Bonds), they would have been in the playoffs and better than the Red Sox and Yankees. So no, it's not impossible to beat these teams with better management.


Seriously...it sucks...but teams like Toronto/Baltimore...there season is over before it starts...makes it hard to be a fan.
Baltimore has great talent and will likely contend within a few years. The Jays...well they have been close the past few years (they even have the 5th best run differential in the majors right now), but I'm not sure what their direction is anymore. They should probably rebuild if they trade Halladay.

KC_Connection
07-14-2009, 10:08 PM
Baseball needs a salary cap in the worst way.
It would be nice. But it's never going to happen.

#1. The MLBPA would never allow it to happen.

#2. The MLB caters to teams like NYY and BOS, and the current system benefits them.

Frazod
07-14-2009, 10:14 PM
It would be nice. But it's never going to happen.

#1. The MLBPA would never allow it to happen.

#2. The MLB caters to teams like NYY and BOS, and the current system benefits them.

Probably. Of course, if the economy continues to worsen, who knows? I'd love to see the player's union broken.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 10:17 PM
Probably. Of course, if the economy continues to worsen, who knows? I'd love to see the player's union broken.

They'll never break the MLB players union...it is by far the strongest union in sports.

They'll just flip it back and say teams like the Royals are the problem where they get 100 million dollars in revenue sharing and pocket it.

Hootie
07-14-2009, 10:18 PM
They'll never break the MLB players union...it is by far the strongest union in sports.

They'll just flip it back and say teams like the Royals are the problem where they get 100 million dollars in revenue sharing and pocket it.

The Royals have spent plenty the last few years for what they make...give me a break.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 10:19 PM
The Royals have spent plenty the last few years for what they make...give me a break.

The Royals are still pocketing some of the rev money they get.

They've made some dumb decisions but the argument back is going to be we give these teams all this money on from luxury tax and they don't even spend it all.

Reaper16
07-14-2009, 10:20 PM
The Royals have spent plenty the last few years for what they make...give me a break.
No, the Royals are a problem. Our worthless owner pockets a ton of revenue sharing money.

RJ
07-14-2009, 10:20 PM
but the deck will always be stacked because the chances of both of those teams having down years is slim and none...90% of the time one is going to win at least 95 games...80% of the time both of them are going to win 90 games or more...at least with the Royals they play in a pretty equal market division.


There is some truth there, but my Orioles have been victims of their own mistakes just as much as the New York/Boston money. To be competitive, a team like Baltimore can't afford bad decisions, financially or otherwise.

BigMeatballDave
07-14-2009, 10:22 PM
I hadn't realized the AL have owned the NL for so many years now.

DeezNutz
07-14-2009, 10:25 PM
The Royals have spent plenty the last few years for what they make...give me a break.

A lot of smart fans are still believing the small market bullshit that the owners have been selling for years. It's a farce on the same level as calls for a "rebuild."

Teams are getting around $100M before they even sell a ticket, according to Jayson Stark. This figure is lower than what some local guys are claiming that the "poor" Royals are taking in, with their $70M payroll.

Free money AND a publicly funded stadium. Nice deal.

Mecca
07-14-2009, 10:26 PM
If you're getting a 100 million dollars in rev sharing that should be your payroll, your ticket sales and other steams can cover the minors, latin america etc.

Unless of course your goal is to make big profits and now we enter why David Glass is a bad owner.

DeezNutz
07-14-2009, 10:29 PM
If you're getting a 100 million dollars in rev sharing that should be your payroll, your ticket sales and other steams can cover the minors, latin america etc.

Unless of course your goal is to make big profits and now we enter why David Glass is a bad owner.

Dude has gone to ground, even during the year that his "new" stadium opened. No interviews. No public appearances at the K.

Why do you think this is?

urgmasdaughter
07-15-2009, 12:47 AM
Baseball needs a salary cap in the worst way.

AGREED!

Sure-Oz
07-15-2009, 07:28 AM
Dude has gone to ground, even during the year that his "new" stadium opened. No interviews. No public appearances at the K.

Why do you think this is?

He doesn't give a crap about KC honestly...

we are just a way for him to make money, gotta be the worst owner in baseball id think

BigRedChief
07-15-2009, 07:54 AM
Baseball needs a salary cap in the worst way.
Agreed.