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View Full Version : Chiefs The main reason for our poor run defense was....


googlegoogle
07-15-2009, 06:28 PM
Defensive ends and linebackers?

Video of the Raider game where they ran all over was bad.

DTLB58
07-15-2009, 06:29 PM
Gunther? :p

Mr. Arrowhead
07-15-2009, 06:30 PM
or maybe it was our Genius of a Head Coach we had at the time

Hog Farmer
07-15-2009, 06:32 PM
Gunther? :p

Gunthers hands were tied. Gunther never ran a defense like we saw last year. It was that piece of a shit head coach Carl hired!

Mr. Krab
07-15-2009, 06:32 PM
Ya, but part of that was because the DE/LB had to pinch in to stop the run up the middle. Our DE's struggle to rush the passer and handle the bootleg. Our DE didn't know what to freaking do.

Our front 7 just sucked pretty much all over.

Halfcan
07-15-2009, 06:35 PM
Defensive ends and linebackers?

Video of the Raider game where they ran all over was bad.

wow did you come up with this all on your own? :rolleyes:

Please email this thread to Pioli-so they can get it fixed.

Count Zarth
07-15-2009, 06:36 PM
But Turk McBride is "solid." I read that here.

the Talking Can
07-15-2009, 06:36 PM
i thought our OL was the problem

milkman
07-15-2009, 06:37 PM
Gunthers hands were tied. Gunther never ran a defense like we saw last year. It was that piece of a shit head coach Carl hired!

And Ron Rivera never ran a 34 until he took over for Ted Cottrell in mid-season last year, and yet he succeeded.

This BS that a DC has to run his own system is getting ridiculous.

A good defensive coach can coach.

A suckass defensive coach lives off the luarels of the seasons when he worked for a good defensive coach.

JASONSAUTO
07-15-2009, 06:37 PM
But Turk McBride is "solid." I read that here.

wasnt he out for the year by then?

Mr. Krab
07-15-2009, 06:43 PM
But Turk McBride is "solid." I read that here.i thought our OL was the problemWow, GoChief and Talking Can are turning into the same person.

Count Zarth
07-15-2009, 06:50 PM
I admire Talking Can's ability to keep his trolling fresh. And funny.

Bwana
07-15-2009, 07:27 PM
i thought our OL was the problem

That too...........

googlegoogle
07-15-2009, 07:44 PM
Our DT's were ok right?

Teams weren't gashing us up the middle right?

Buehler445
07-15-2009, 08:43 PM
Our DT's were ok right?

Teams weren't gashing us up the middle right?

Ummmm Tennessee? Fat ass 260 pound FB posing as a RB burned us for a 60 yard TD up the middle.

Check the Carolina game also.

Jethopper
07-15-2009, 08:47 PM
Ummmm Tennessee? Fat ass 260 pound FB posing as a RB burned us for a 60 yard TD up the middle.

Check the Carolina game also.

Carolina did that to everyone.

J Diddy
07-15-2009, 08:47 PM
I think primarily our biggest problem was zone defense and being afraid our corners would make mistakes. Having 4 members of the defense backed up so far back that the only way they could contribute to the run defense is to take on a rb with a full head of steam 1 on 1 in the open field isn't generally a formula for success, imo.

Count Zarth
07-15-2009, 08:54 PM
I think primarily our biggest problem was zone defense and being afraid our corners would make mistakes. Having 4 members of the defense backed up so far back that the only way they could contribute to the run defense is to take on a rb with a full head of steam 1 on 1 in the open field isn't generally a formula for success, imo.

No. The front four sucked.

If anything the Cover 2 helps corners be more involved in run defense.

Reerun_KC
07-15-2009, 09:03 PM
Gunthers hands were tied. Gunther never ran a defense like we saw last year. It was that piece of a shit head coach Carl hired!

or maybe it was our Genius of a Head Coach we had at the time

This sums it up...

Running the worthless Tampon 2 with Herm is franchise sucide...

J Diddy
07-15-2009, 09:06 PM
No. The front four sucked.

If anything the Cover 2 helps corners be more involved in run defense.

I disagree, I don't know how having corners 15 yards off the ball and the safeties further back than that could contribute to the run defense.

Count Zarth
07-15-2009, 09:08 PM
I disagree, I don't know how having corners 15 yards off the ball and the safeties further back than that could contribute to the run defense.

They weren't always 15 yards off the ball. In Cover 2 the corners frequently stay in the flats.

I don't think there is anything wrong with Cover 2. But you have to have a pass rush to run it effectively and we certainly had shit for pass rush last year.

J Diddy
07-15-2009, 09:27 PM
They weren't always 15 yards off the ball. In Cover 2 the corners frequently stay in the flats.

I don't think there is anything wrong with Cover 2. But you have to have a pass rush to run it effectively and we certainly had shit for pass rush last year.

To which I can't disagree. Without looking over multiple tapes of last year, which I am already to depressed to do, I'd say the biggest problem was lack of ability to mix it up.

Chocolate Hog
07-15-2009, 09:46 PM
Our Front 7 sucked and Pollard doesn't tackle

Fruit Ninja
07-15-2009, 09:50 PM
Our Front 7 sucked and Pollard doesn't tackle

Yet, he did better then page at the end of the year.

What happened, is we tried to play a defense when we didnt have the players to play that defense. I remember hearing coaches say, you gotta coach to what your defensive players can do. Chiefs didnt do that. WE played the system the HC wanted. WE didnt do what was best for the defense. We did was Herm wanted.

Our Dline was the worst dline in the history of the sport. Stats can prove that.

Chocolate Hog
07-15-2009, 09:53 PM
Yet, he did better then page at the end of the year.

What happened, is we tried to play a defense when we didnt have the players to play that defense. I remember hearing coaches say, you gotta coach to what your defensive players can do. Chiefs didnt do that. WE played the system the HC wanted. WE didnt do what was best for the defense. We did was Herm wanted.

Our Dline was the worst dline in the history of the sport. Stats can prove that.

The players the Chiefs had on D wouldn't play any Defense good though

Fruit Ninja
07-15-2009, 10:15 PM
The players the Chiefs had on D wouldn't play any Defense good though

or course not, but we didnt even try to put pressure on the opposing teams qb. 2nd half of games we just sat back and let them pick us apart or run all over us. There was never any attacking.

Herm played to not lose and we always lost. Herm doesnt play to win. He thinks if we are up by 10 points, thats enough, and we can just run the ball in a I back formation. Herm is not head coaching material, but we all know that.

Count Zarth
07-15-2009, 10:19 PM
STOP TALKING ABOUT HERM

Raised On Riots
07-15-2009, 10:31 PM
Our Front 7 sucked and Pollard doesn't tackle

http://animals.timduru.org/dirlist/wolf/snarling%20closeup.jpg

Billay said what?

Pioli Zombie
07-15-2009, 10:35 PM
Because the front seven was made up from the cast of High School Musical?
Posted via Mobile Device

DJJasonp
07-15-2009, 10:39 PM
our personnel on D, for the most part, has sucked for several years.

But for the past 8 or so years, we've had a defensive coordinator who the game had passed them by several years before.

Robinson and Gunther's resume (at least the foundation) was built in the 90's.

Gameplan, gameplan, gameplan - and the INABILITY to do it, the inability to be creative, and the inability to shut down a team's #1 option....doomed our defense for the past 9 years.

Raised On Riots
07-15-2009, 10:40 PM
Because the front seven was made up from the cast of High School Musical?
Posted via Mobile Device

They've moved on. It's "Bathouse: The Musical"! now:

http://www.syracuse.com/flags/photo-of-the-day/house_080611_baths.jpg

googlegoogle
07-15-2009, 11:14 PM
We definitely didn't have the players to run a 4-3 defense.

This was because finding Dends has been hard for the Chiefs. Ofcourse J.Allen leaving and our pass rush going to hell which created sustained drives for opponents.

Hope we get a pass rush too.

Pioli Zombie
07-16-2009, 05:38 AM
We definitely didn't have the players to run a 4-3 defense.

This was because finding Dends has been hard for the Chiefs. Ofcourse J.Allen leaving and our pass rush going to hell which created sustained drives for opponents.

Hope we get a pass rush too.

Ah yes. The trading away of Jared Allen. Great move, Carl.
Posted via Mobile Device

Craqhead
07-16-2009, 06:23 AM
Gunther? :p This, and toss in a lil of Herm. Two defensive coaches with completely different thoughts on how too run defense. I'm sure thier headbutting effected the team.

Just my thoughts no real concrete evidence too support it either... Thats the great thing about opinions, they are like assholes, everyone has one and they all stink.

the Talking Can
07-16-2009, 06:49 AM
Our DT's were ok right?

Teams weren't gashing us up the middle right?

our DTs repeatedly got blown off the line of scrimmage...they were horrible

Coogs
07-16-2009, 06:54 AM
Gunther? :p

I'm guessing after 5 or 6 months on the job in Detroit, Gun is starting to compile a pretty good list of potential candidates, from which he will choose at least one, for his first victim to throw under the bus when his defense sux again this year.

Early favorite will probably be Matt Millen. Can't field a good defense without any first round draft picks.

Fish
07-16-2009, 09:00 AM
I think it was a combination of bad DC in Gunther, soft Cover 2 with no apparent leadership, inconsistent offense, terrible field position due to terrible special teams, and bad conditioning causing the D to tire in the 2nd half.

CoMoChief
07-16-2009, 09:46 AM
Bad drafting, horrid personnel decisions (trading Allen), lack of coaching.

Pretty much when all of these factors come into play, you're gonna have a shitty football team.

FAX
07-16-2009, 11:16 AM
Bad drafting, horrid personnel decisions (trading Allen), lack of coaching.

Pretty much when all of these factors come into play, you're gonna have a shitty football team.

Righto, Mr. CoMoChief. However, I think the crappy run defense was an endemic issue whereas I would argue that the actual cause of the crappy run defense was systemic.

For 20 years, the Kansas City Chiefs' philosophy about winning boiled down to doing just enough in terms of coaching and player personnel to keep ticket sales moving and attempt to occasionally squeeze into the playoffs where (as we have been repeatedly informed) anything can happen.

This has not been a franchise imbued with pride and a winning mindset. Rather, it's been a franchise infected with egoism and an holier than thou attitude. That's been reflected in our drafting, free agency activity, coaching selections, and every other decision from the price of nachos to player contract negotiations.

We couldn't stop the run because, ultimately, the organization's leadership didn't really give a damn whether we stopped the run or not.

FAX

Raised On Riots
07-16-2009, 11:19 AM
The Peterson Anti-Christ almost succeeded in killing our first-born, that sonofabitch!

And piss on Herm.

RedThat
07-16-2009, 12:50 PM
I blame mainly scheme.

The Chiefs always emphasize and focus on playing cover 2 a great majority of the time.

That type of defense is clearly and not ideally a favorable defense in stopping the run. How can it be when your asking your LB's and safeties to drop back all the time creating lack of support?

I see it as a defense, where its just a matter of creating enough space to make the opposition run all over you.

To stop the run effectively imo, you need the opposite of this. You have to bring in your LBers and safeties to create more support, close gaps and create less space it also helps when you have more penetration created along your DL to possibly cause a change in direction/or time for the opposing runner making the life of your LBers a lot easier, and giving them more time to get to the ball carrier. We had very little of this last year.

A big difference between a good run stopping defense and a poor run stopping defense is your teams ability to decide whether they want to be more aggressive or less aggressive. that comes from coaching and philosophy imo.

Valiant
07-16-2009, 12:56 PM
Defensive ends and linebackers?

Video of the Raider game where they ran all over was bad.

Coaching and the front 7 all sucked..

Count Zarth
07-16-2009, 01:02 PM
The Chiefs always emphasize and focus on playing cover 2 a great majority of the time.

That type of defense is clearly and not ideally a favorable defense in stopping the run. How can it be when your asking your LB's and safeties to drop back all the time creating lack of support?


The 02 Bucs had the 5th ranked run defense in both yards and yards per carry.

I think people just bitch about Cover 2 because it's associated with Herm.

Easy 6
07-22-2009, 04:13 PM
Theres plenty 'o blame to go around, but the DT's always seemed to be 5 yards off the LOS.

Of course, if Herm hadnt put their greenhorn asses in there it would be a moot point...they simply werent ready.

And, i said 'so long buttmunch' in so many words to Jared Allen when he left...but my, oh my, what a difference one stud can make. I knew his loss would hurt, but, not as bad as it did.

But alas, the past is past & now we find out about Pendergast.

FAX
07-22-2009, 04:25 PM
I like it ...

What a pitiful bunch
Every offense ate our lunch
Because we said so long to Buttmunch

But alack and alas
The past is now past
For now we find out about Pendergast

FAX

talastan
07-22-2009, 04:39 PM
I like it ...

What a pitiful bunch
Every offense ate our lunch
Because we said so long to Buttmunch

But alack and alas
The past is now past
For now we find out about Pendergast

FAX

And he better not suck @ss!! :D

FAX
07-22-2009, 04:44 PM
And he better not suck @ss!! :D

Or we shall bitch en masse.

FAX