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View Full Version : Royals Who is/was worse? Herm or Hillman?


Count Alex's Losses
07-19-2009, 03:45 PM
I'm just not noticing all the hatred for Hillman. Here I had thought he was a young, promising managerial candidate who was just going through a rough transitional stage.

Now I see someone calling him a dumbass.

Is he is as bad as Herm was for the Chiefs? Worse?

petegz28
07-19-2009, 03:46 PM
Herm Hillman=Trey Edwards

DeezNutz
07-19-2009, 03:51 PM
Good men, IMO.

Terrible coaches. Terrible.

CoMoChief
07-19-2009, 03:52 PM
Hillman has less to work with.

Herm probably has the higher stress job, obviously more fast pace.


But Herm is the bigger idiot.

Reaper16
07-19-2009, 03:53 PM
Herm is worse, I think. A Hillman-led team of better players would win despite Hillman's presence.

Mr. Flopnuts
07-19-2009, 03:54 PM
Herm is worse by a country mile. He took this team into the dark ages. Trey at least improved upon what he had. The Royals have been tragic for decades. The Chiefs? Not entirely until Herm dealt the death blow.

Gonzo
07-19-2009, 03:56 PM
I would think Herm. We expect douchebaggery from the Royals, not the Chiefs.
Posted via Mobile Device

DeezNutz
07-19-2009, 03:56 PM
Herm is worse by a country mile. He took this team into the dark ages. Trey at least improved upon what he had. The Royals have been tragic for decades. The Chiefs? Not entirely until Herm dealt the death blow.

:shake:

You need to watch more Royals games, my friend.

Stupid poll question on a Chiefs board, since only a small percentage of the posters are stupid enough to follow the Royals very closely, myself being one of the fucking idiots.

petegz28
07-19-2009, 04:00 PM
Herm at least had a philosophy...a bad one but he had one.


Hillman is fucking clueless

milkman
07-19-2009, 04:01 PM
:shake:

You need to watch more Royals games, my friend.

Stupid poll question on a Chiefs board, since only a small percentage of the posters are stupid enough to follow the Royals very closely, myself being one of the ****ing idiots.

I don't get to watch many games, and in football with only 16 games every bad decision is magnified, but reading through these game threads and watching when I can, I get the feeling that Hillman is every bit as bad at his job as Herman fucking Edwards was at his.

Trey Dilweed?

Reaper16
07-19-2009, 04:02 PM
Herm is worse by a country mile. He took this team into the dark ages. Trey at least improved upon what he had. The Royals have been tragic for decades. The Chiefs? Not entirely until Herm dealt the death blow.
Herm's desire to get a youth movement going was the right one. Vermiel left the franchise an aged husk of a team. Its just that Herm was a damaging coach. He had the right idea, but he was incapable of effectively executing it.

Trey, meanwhile, pfffffffffft.

DeezNutz
07-19-2009, 04:04 PM
I don't get to watch many games, and in football with only 16 games every bad decision is magnified, but reading through these game threads and watching when I can, I get the feeling that Hillman is every bit as bad at his job as Herman ****ing Edwards was at his.

Trey Dilweed?

No question. No. Question.

I can understand argues for Herm fucking Edwards being the worst b/c a HC is more important in the NFL than a manager is in MLB. Still, Trey Edwards is really, really bad.

JuicesFlowing
07-19-2009, 04:09 PM
Hillman took a bad team and ... kept them bad. Herm took a team that won 10 games and destroyed them in every possible way.

*edit: I know the Chiefs were an old team, but 10 wins is 10 wins.

wazu
07-19-2009, 04:19 PM
Hillman is so completely clueless that Herm can rightfully look down on him as an intellectual inferior.

Farzin
07-19-2009, 06:04 PM
Herm at least had a philosophy...a bad one but he had one.


Hillman is ****ing clueless

This

Mr. Arrowhead
07-19-2009, 06:12 PM
they are the same to me

shakesthecat
07-19-2009, 06:23 PM
I'm not a Hillman fan, but he didn't throw a single pitch this weekend. If the tools you have to work with aren't up to the job, you can't be successful.

It's becoming readily apparent that Moore is just slightly better than Baird.

The bullpen sucks, and Moore is directly responsible for it.

thurman merman
07-19-2009, 06:48 PM
they are both among the worst of all time, but herm is much, much worse.

chiefzilla1501
07-19-2009, 06:57 PM
I know I'm alone in this boat, but the claims that Herm was a horrible coach are ridiculous.

He never proved to be anything better than an average coach. I agree with that. But for people to act like he destroyed the team, give me a fucking break. He inherited a team that got old, drafted horribly for 10 years, and had a GM who refused to rebuild until it was too late. Like I've said all along, if you give Herm Edwards pretty decent players, he can get you 9 wins. He showed that many times over his career. 9 wins is average--not great, not horrible.

Bowser
07-19-2009, 07:10 PM
I hate that my teams suck (or choke) year in and year out.

Mr. Krab
07-19-2009, 07:58 PM
Herm, simply because i think coaches in the NFL have more influence than coaches in the MLB.

Tiger's Fan
07-19-2009, 08:07 PM
I know I'm alone in this boat, but the claims that Herm was a horrible coach are ridiculous.

He never proved to be anything better than an average coach. I agree with that. But for people to act like he destroyed the team, give me a ****ing break. He inherited a team that got old, drafted horribly for 10 years, and had a GM who refused to rebuild until it was too late. Like I've said all along, if you give Herm Edwards pretty decent players, he can get you 9 wins. He showed that many times over his career. 9 wins is average--not great, not horrible.

I vote you as stupidest of the three.

BY A MILE!

DJ's left nut
07-19-2009, 08:13 PM
I know I'm alone in this boat, but the claims that Herm was a horrible coach are ridiculous.

He never proved to be anything better than an average coach. I agree with that. But for people to act like he destroyed the team, give me a ****ing break. He inherited a team that got old, drafted horribly for 10 years, and had a GM who refused to rebuild until it was too late. Like I've said all along, if you give Herm Edwards pretty decent players, he can get you 9 wins. He showed that many times over his career. 9 wins is average--not great, not horrible.

I tend to agree, to an extent.

Herm wasn't the worst coach in the history of coaches, but I don't think he reaches 'average' either. He's just a sub-par head coach. He has some strengths, he has more weaknesses. He was a better head coach than Cunther was, which is hardly high praise but it makes the point.

But here's the thing, Herm Edwards never seemed to lose the respect of his players. Hillman has. Herm's guys weren't well coached and seemed poorly schemed, but they did bust their ass every day. Hillman's guys have many of the same problems (they don't have a plate approach, don't execute and are just poorly managed), but they compound it with sub-standard effort and wretched attitudes. Hillman started losing his club when he trotted them out for public humiliation after a shoddy Spring Training game (afterall, nobody has one of those). He kept it up when he let Jose Guillen push him around then bent to the whims of Miguel Olivo (c'mon, you can't make someone the full-time starter the DAY AFTER he bitches about playing time).

Herm was a poor tactician, a below average administrator and a very good motivator. Hillman is an absolutely abysmal administrator, one of the worst game managers in MLB and has the single worst people skills of any manager/coach/head coach I've ever seen in any sport. Mike Keenan's the only guy that even comes close.

It's difficult to alienate your players, your fans AND the media (usually at least one of that group sees you as the 'good cop'), but Hillman's done so in record time.

Honestly, in my mind, this isn't even a close call.

Dave Lane
07-19-2009, 10:02 PM
Herm by three million light years

Chiefless
07-19-2009, 10:05 PM
I tend to agree, to an extent.

Herm wasn't the worst coach in the history of coaches, but I don't think he reaches 'average' either. He's just a sub-par head coach. He has some strengths, he has more weaknesses. He was a better head coach than ****her was, which is hardly high praise but it makes the point.

But here's the thing, Herm Edwards never seemed to lose the respect of his players. Hillman has. Herm's guys weren't well coached and seemed poorly schemed, but they did bust their ass every day. Hillman's guys have many of the same problems (they don't have a plate approach, don't execute and are just poorly managed), but they compound it with sub-standard effort and wretched attitudes. Hillman started losing his club when he trotted them out for public humiliation after a shoddy Spring Training game (afterall, nobody has one of those). He kept it up when he let Jose Guillen push him around then bent to the whims of Miguel Olivo (c'mon, you can't make someone the full-time starter the DAY AFTER he bitches about playing time).

Herm was a poor tactician, a below average administrator and a very good motivator. Hillman is an absolutely abysmal administrator, one of the worst game managers in MLB and has the single worst people skills of any manager/coach/head coach I've ever seen in any sport. Mike Keenan's the only guy that even comes close.

It's difficult to alienate your players, your fans AND the media (usually at least one of that group sees you as the 'good cop'), but Hillman's done so in record time.

Honestly, in my mind, this isn't even a close call.

Nailed it.

thurman merman
07-22-2009, 10:29 PM
they are both among the worst of all time, but herm is much, much worse.

i would like to retract this statement at this point. hillman is much, much, much, much worse now.

Pioli Zombie
07-22-2009, 11:01 PM
Hillman is the worstiest of the worst. He puts the wurst in the liverwurst.
Posted via Mobile Device

DJ's left nut
07-22-2009, 11:02 PM
Only the demographic of this board can explain these poll results.

Fellas, this isn't a close call.

LaChapelle
07-22-2009, 11:19 PM
Dammit Dayton :cuss:

alanm
07-23-2009, 01:08 AM
:shake:

You need to watch more Royals games, my friend.

Stupid poll question on a Chiefs board, since only a small percentage of the posters are stupid enough to follow the Royals very closely, myself being one of the ****ing idiots.I can't help it. I'm a masochist.
I feel like I should join a 12 step program.

Guru
07-23-2009, 01:09 AM
I say Herm but only because I don't give a crap about baseball anymore.

greg63
07-23-2009, 01:57 AM
Herm.

cabletech94
07-23-2009, 08:42 AM
I would almost have to say tie.

I, have almost quit the royals, and it kills me.

Last night was the first night that I didn't turn it on, spent time with the fam, blah, blah, blah. So I turned it on right as Teahan got the 2 out double, and thought to myself, "well, at least Banny will get a much deserved win". Right, turned it back on to see the post game and saw the score. CheeseandCrackers. shit! again?

They flashed on to Trey Muser, and man, I gotta say, that man had real pain in his eyes. I've never seen that kind of hurt before. Managieral skills or not, I don't think he is trying to screw this up, but man, come on!!!!

beach tribe
07-23-2009, 08:58 AM
I think Herm is on par with the worst HEAD coaches in the history of any sport. He was promoted above his skill set because of his color, the fact that he's a soundbite.

Demonpenz
07-23-2009, 10:29 AM
I think it is herm. Hillman doesn't have the horses and it is only his second year. what herm did with the chiefs O would be like hillman having the yankees lineup and bunting and hitting and running on the time

Dr. Facebook Fever
07-23-2009, 10:32 AM
Jon Mackovic

KCUnited
07-23-2009, 10:34 AM
Herm never rode a unicycle in the club house.

RippedmyFlesh
07-23-2009, 10:43 AM
Hillman gets the blame for royals being cheap asses.
A football coach has much more bearing on the game than a baseball manager.
That is why baseball players switch teams and their stats tend to carry over somewhat to the new team.
In football it's all about coaching and schemes which is why herm was much worse than Hillman will ever be. New royals ownership is the only hope because even a great manager isn't going to win when you are devoid of talent. The royals need a mark cuban type to over pay for a couple of years for free agents make the royals respectable again then kc will be a desirable place for FA's.

Demonpenz
07-23-2009, 11:34 AM
herm didn't ride a unicycle, but did roller blade into training camp

burt
07-23-2009, 11:40 AM
Good men, IMO.

Terrible coaches. Terrible.

This.:LOL:

GoHuge
07-23-2009, 12:10 PM
Well the fact we lost all three Tampa games in the 8th Soria should have been brought in a couple times. Can't use him for five outs, maybe four, but we can use him for five when the bases are jacked? I haven't said this yet but Hillman needs to be canned. The general thought is that a manager can account for about five or six games. Well Hillman used those up and they where losses. Dayton Moore isn't without blame either. He traded our 2nd and 3rd best bullpen guys for a guy that's on the DL and a guy hitting .220. Farnsworth for $9 million. A second round pick for Cruz. JP Howell closing for the World Champ runner-ups while Joey Gathright is back in the minors. His entire off season was a disaster. Everyone knew Jacobs was a sh##ty fielder and SO or HR guy. Crisp has a litany of injuries and has never been considered a durable guy. That list goes on Mike McDougal...we got a kid that is still in AA. Affeldt has a below 2.00 ERA for SF. Oh and lets not forget Guillen who was coming off a performance enhancing suspension that we signed for $36 million over three years. The Royals can't get anybody to take this guy on while offering to pay most of his salary! Dayton Moore's honeymoon is long gone in my book. The whole organization at the big league level is a disaster. Who knows about the minors. Our next Butler/Gordon we're waiting for aren't really tearing the cover off the ball in A ball. Can't draft Longoria because we already have a 3rd basemen j/k. Won't pay for a guy in Porcello (sp) that is in the bigs at twenty. Paid close to $5million for Hosmer, but wouldn't spend $7 mill on Porcello who is doing very well as a rookie for a team in our division. He would currently be our #2 starter behind Zack. We've traded away every good player we've ever had and all we have to show for it is Buck and Teahen (which is having a very good year IMO). Just about had all I can take this year. 29 years old and have really only witnessed (that I really remember) one winning season in 03' which we all know was nothing but an abberation. Every other season I've witnessed has been an MLB abortion.

Last but not least David Glass=Epic motherf**king FAIL!!!

DJ's left nut
07-23-2009, 12:35 PM
Hillman gets the blame for royals being cheap asses.
A football coach has much more bearing on the game than a baseball manager.
That is why baseball players switch teams and their stats tend to carry over somewhat to the new team.
In football it's all about coaching and schemes which is why herm was much worse than Hillman will ever be. New royals ownership is the only hope because even a great manager isn't going to win when you are devoid of talent. The royals need a mark cuban type to over pay for a couple of years for free agents make the royals respectable again then kc will be a desirable place for FA's.

By his argument you're essentially saying that no baseball manager can ever be as bad as a football coach.

It's simply a bad argument.

All you can do is look at them on a relative basis. Herm Edwards was, relatively speaking, a sub-standard football coach. At the same time, he did manage to get a handful of teams into the playoffs and win roughly as many games as he lost over his career. He was by no means a good coach, but he wasn't historically awful.

Trey Hillman, on the other hand....well you'd really have to watch it to appreciate how unspeakably awful he is. His team isn't the most talented but in baseball you're often as talented as your starting pitcher that day. Well the Royals continue to get decent starting performances from guys like Banny and very good ones from Greinke, yet they still lose. They lose because Hillman says dumb shit like "I'll use Soria for 4 outs but not for 5...", because he does dumb shit like bunt with his cleanup hitter. He has no discernable managerial philosophy. He has no real motivational skills.

He is, without question, worse at his job than Herm Edwards is at his. The question isn't "who has more responsibility?" but rather "who sucks worse at what they're asked to do?"

That's Trey Hillman.

RippedmyFlesh
07-23-2009, 01:21 PM
He is, without question, worse at his job than Herm Edwards is at his. The question isn't "who has more responsibility?" but rather "who sucks worse at what they're asked to do?"

That's Trey Hillman.

I'll have to take your word for it not being a royals fan myself. Worse than hem ...yikes...
The worst w/l pct in chief's history is historically bad to me.

I think even 1 big bat in the middle of their lineup would just change things dramatically. I put that on ownership.The pitching staff is almost there.
I think adam dunn would have been a nice big bat to plug into that lineup.
A team that needs a bat just to me doesn't have as big a hill to climb as a team needing pitching.The royals already have the most expensive spot in baseball filled with zack so to me that is a huge advantage over other teams trying to rebuild.