Pelosi lashes out against insurance companies

[Donger]

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE56T4CZ20090730?feedType=RSS&feedName=politicsNews&rpc=22&sp=true

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Thursday ramped up her criticism of insurance companies, accusing them of unethical behavior and working to kill a plan to create a new government-run health plan.

"It's almost immoral what they are doing," Pelosi said to reporters, referring to insurance companies. "Of course they've been immoral all along in how they have treated the people that they insure," she said, adding, "They are the villains. They have been part of the problem in a major way. They are doing everything in their power to stop a public option from happening."

[Reaper16]

In this topic: truth.

[Donger]

I thought the goal here was to provide insurance options to people who don't have it. Has Nancy just shown what she really wants?

[Taco John]

An insurance company is nothing but a private social(ist) organization that people choose to participate in (or not) in order to distribute costs. Not a bad thing, except that the government has inserted itself into the equation in so many ways and made it difficult for these organizations to operate.

But now, the government wants a monopoly on this.

[Mr. Krab]

I'm not a fan of Pelosi but she's right.

[Donger]

Can someone explain this to me? Why would any congress critter vote against this, let alone defeat it?

Waxman's shaky majority was on display early, when the committee voted 29-28 to defeat a Republican amendment to strengthen ID requirements designed to prevent illegal immigrants from getting Medicaid benefits.

[petegz28]

Wow....perhaps she should apply her accusations to the Fed Gov in general?

[Stinger]

"It's almost immoral what they are doing," Pelosi said to reporters, referring to insurance companies. "Of course they've been immoral all along in how they have treated the people that they insure," she said, adding, "They are the villains. They have been part of the problem in a major way. They are doing everything in their power to stop a public option from happening."

"Define Irony"

http://www.sfgate.com/blogs/images/sfgate/giants/2006/05/12/garland250x191.bmp

[mlyonsd]

" "Of course they've been immoral all along in how they have treated the people that they insure," she said..."

Ya, my insurance company forked out about $20,000 last year towards my health bills. Ba$tards.

Just your usual fear mongering democrats are known for.

[wild1]

They will try to sell it as "insurance reform", because for most americans, what they are selling is a bad deal.

[modocsot]

I'm not a fan of Pelosi but she's right.

Well, see this thread.
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=211029

[FishingRod]

Of course they've been immoral all along in how they have treated the people...


Change insurance companies to Congress and the legitimacy of the sentence does not diminish one iota. Quite possibly the reverse.

[RaiderH8r]

She's got to have her boogieman to sell her line of bullshit. Ask a vet what gov't run health care is like.

[Chief Faithful]

So the private sector is fighting against the government that is trying to create legislation that makes government its competitor? What does she think they should do lay down and let government put them out of business? I see Pelosi as the immoral one in this equation.

[wild1]

She's got to have her boogieman to sell her line of bullshit. Ask a vet what gov't run health care is like.

I mentioned this yesterday when someone posted a topic about how great in every way the VA was. (based on some satisfaction survey, not any objective measure)

[DaneMcCloud]

So the private sector is fighting against the government that is trying to create legislation that makes government its competitor? What does she think they should do lay down and let government put them out of business? I see Pelosi as the immoral one in this equation.

The USA is the only civilized nation without national healthcare.

In the 21st century, it's my opinion that insurance companies should not make a "profit" off of people's pain and suffering.

And these companies are diversified enough that eventually "losing" healthcare won't "hurt" them.

Whether or not the right plan is in place is up for debate. But it's ludicrous that 50 million Americans are without health coverage and that Americans lose their life savings and their homes due to health providers dropping them because their benefits "run out".

[wild1]

The USA is the only civilized nation without national healthcare.

In the 21st century, it's my opinion that insurance companies should not make a "profit" off of people's pain and suffering.

And these companies are diversified enough that eventually "losing" healthcare won't "hurt" them.

Whether or not the right plan is in place is up for debate. But it's ludicrous that 50 million Americans are without health coverage and the people lose their life savings and their homes due to health providers dropping them.

Why should I pay someone else's bills?

[DaneMcCloud]

Why should I pay someone else's bills?

The typical Republican response.

BTW, you already DO.

Unless you're using $20,000 dollars or more of your health insurance each and every year, every dime that either you or employer pays for your healthcare goes to pay for "someone else's bills".

[petegz28]

The typical Republican response.

BTW, you already DO.

Unless you're using $20,000 dollars or more of your health insurance each and every year, every dime that either you or employer pays for your healthcare goes to pay for "someone else's bills".

So what? The Fed Gov isn't involved.

[Otter]

Can someone explain this to me? Why would any congress critter vote against this, let alone defeat it?

Waxman's shaky majority was on display early, when the committee voted 29-28 to defeat a Republican amendment to strengthen ID requirements designed to prevent illegal immigrants from getting Medicaid benefits.

The special interest groups and big businesses that help put them in place told them to vote it down.

Illegal Immigrants Account for $10.7 Billion of Nation’s Health Care Costs, Data Show

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=51751

[dirk digler]

So what? The Fed Gov isn't involved.

They aren't? Your tax dollars go to Medicare\Medicaid.

And BTW Pelosi is exactly right on this.

[petegz28]

The special interest groups and big businesses that put them in place told them to vote it down.

Illegal Immigrants Account for $10.7 Billion of Nation’s Health Care Costs, Data Show

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=51751

Now what I want to know is, if everyone HAS to have health insurance now, how do illegals go about getting such?

[dirk digler]

The special interest groups and big businesses that help put them in place told them to vote it down.

Illegal Immigrants Account for $10.7 Billion of Nation’s Health Care Costs, Data Show

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=51751

Yep I am all for making sure illegals don't get any health care except when they are dying.

[petegz28]

They aren't? Your tax dollars go to Medicare\Medicaid.

And BTW Pelosi is exactly right on this.

I was talking about the private inusrance Dane McCloud was referring too. Nice job at mixing apples and oranges. And medicare is broken.....


If Pelosi backs up her rhetoric by dumping her private insurance then you have an argument. But something tells me you sit here and say "she is right" but she won't dump her private inusrance.

[dirk digler]

I was talking about the private inusrance Dane McCloud was referring too. Nice job at mixing apples and oranges. And medicare is broken.....


If Pelosi backs up her rhetoric by dumping her private insurance then you have an argument. But something tells me you sit here and say "she is right" but she won't dump her private inusrance.

Those insurance companies fuckers testified in Congress 3-4 weeks ago they will keep dropping people for no reason at all and they don't care. Fuck'em for all I care.

[Otter]

Now what I want to know is, if everyone HAS to have health insurance now, how do illegals go about getting such?

Most hospitals are required to treat a person when they are in need of medical treatment under the law. When hospitals don't get their money a portion of it is reimbursed by government funds that come from our paychecks.

Illegal immigrants won't be covered on the front end but they will on the back. It's double talk.

[petegz28]

Those insurance companies ****ers testified in Congress 3-4 weeks ago they will keep dropping people for no reason at all and they don't care. ****'em for all I care.

I never said they were without fault, did I? So am I to assume then you will be taking the Fed Gov option?

[Chief Faithful]

The USA is the only civilized nation without national healthcare.

In the 21st century, it's my opinion that insurance companies should not make a "profit" off of people's pain and suffering.

And these companies are diversified enough that eventually "losing" healthcare won't "hurt" them.

Whether or not the right plan is in place is up for debate. But it's ludicrous that 50 million Americans are without health coverage and that Americans lose their life savings and their homes due to health providers dropping them because their benefits "run out".

Here we go again, profit is the enemy. Profit is one of the purest motives the drives people to work. It is the engine that created the wealth in the country and gave us the great healthcare we enjoy today.

This country does have healthcare for all its citizens and it is the best healthcare in the world. The US is not the only country in the world that uses the private sector to provide healthcare services. Why change the model to national government provided services? Why not improve the system in place or use the States to get the provider closer to the patient. It is inefficient and expensive as we have already seen with Medicare and Medicaid.

I think it is immoral that government would put themselves in between the doctor and patient. Now government politicians get to campaign on "pain and suffering."

[dirk digler]

I never said they were without fault, did I? So am I to assume then you will be taking the Fed Gov option?

I will take whatever is the best option for me since I still have a choice.

[Chief Faithful]

Whether or not the right plan is in place is up for debate. But it's ludicrous that 50 million Americans are without health coverage and that Americans lose their life savings and their homes due to health providers dropping them because their benefits "run out".

So fix the coverage issue don't completely hand the private sector over to the government.


• Allow insurance companies to tailor health care policies.
• Address tort reform.
• Allow consumers to purchase health insurance companies across state lines.
• Widen the availability of medical savings accounts.
• Allow consumers to deduct the cost of insurance from their taxable income.
• Allow doctors, nurses and medical suppliers to take a credit against any income taxes due for the market value of services provided free to those living at or below the poverty level.

There are a number of ways to address the coverage issue without dismantling the private sector, putting people out of work, and handing healthcare over to a huge expensive inefficient newly created national bureaucracy where people have to redress Congress just to obtain simple services.

[wild1]

The typical Republican response.

BTW, you already DO.

Unless you're using $20,000 dollars or more of your health insurance each and every year, every dime that either you or employer pays for your healthcare goes to pay for "someone else's bills".

Most of my expenditures I pay out of pocket. But I'm not arguing whether or not I currently am paying others' bills. The question was, why should I have to pay someone else's bills?

[petegz28]

I will take whatever is the best option for me since I still have a choice.

LMAO....ok
nice backpedal

[Reaper16]

This country does have healthcare for all its citizens and it is the best healthcare in the world.

:spock:

[dirk digler]

LMAO....ok
nice backpedal

I am not backpedaling. If the government option is better for me than I will take it. The insurance I have right now through my employer sucks ass.

[petegz28]

I am not backpedaling. If the government option is better for me than I will take it. The insurance I have right now through my employer sucks ass.

Yes you are...you support Pelosi's comments yet will not committ to dumping them people you call villans when given the chance.....

they must not be quite as bad as you and her are making them out to be then, heh?

[dirk digler]

Yes you are...you support Pelosi's comments yet will not committ to dumping them people you call villans when given the chance.....

they must not be quite as bad as you and her are making them out to be then, heh?

I see your point. I still think they are shitty and evil but you gotta look out for #1. :D

[Chief Faithful]

:spock:

Nobody in this country can be denied healthcare the issue is coverage and cost.

[Reaper16]

Nobody in this country can be denied healthcare the issue is coverage and cost.
Coverage and cost combine to deny a whole lot of healthcare.

[petegz28]

Coverage and cost combine to deny a whole lot of healthcare.

The problem with a lot of people in this country is wmost want something for nothing. Or what they think is nothing.

[Guru]

The USA is the only civilized nation without national healthcare.

In the 21st century, it's my opinion that insurance companies should not make a "profit" off of people's pain and suffering.

And these companies are diversified enough that eventually "losing" healthcare won't "hurt" them.

Whether or not the right plan is in place is up for debate. But it's ludicrous that 50 million Americans are without health coverage and that Americans lose their life savings and their homes due to health providers dropping them because their benefits "run out".I only hope the stuff I have been reading regarding how this will affect post retirement aged people is wrong. I really fear for our parents if their plan gets passed as it is now.

[Chief Henry]

I only hope the stuff I have been reading regarding how this will affect post retirement aged people is wrong. I really fear for our parents if their plan gets passed as it is now.

Whats worse, forcing seniors to eat dog food or forcing them into
"end of life care" with a red pill or a blue pill ? Wait until the senior
market starts to learn about Obama's "End of life" care.

[wild1]

I only hope the stuff I have been reading regarding how this will affect post retirement aged people is wrong. I really fear for our parents if their plan gets passed as it is now.

They ought to do the honorable thing and go off and die somewhere. For the good of the state.

[Fishpicker]

Coverage and cost combine to deny a whole lot of healthcare.

post facto. which is to say, no one is ever denied.

[BucEyedPea]

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE56T4CZ20090730?feedType=RSS&feedName=politicsNews&rpc=22&sp=true

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Thursday ramped up her criticism of insurance companies, accusing them of unethical behavior and working to kill a plan to create a new government-run health plan.

"It's almost immoral what they are doing," Pelosi said to reporters, referring to insurance companies. "Of course they've been immoral all along in how they have treated the people that they insure," she said, adding, "They are the villains. They have been part of the problem in a major way. They are doing everything in their power to stop a public option from happening."

Do we become like those we accuse or are we like that from the start and see what we are in others?

Classic projection by Pelosi here. She's the unethical one.

[BucEyedPea]

There's better ways to fix this Dane. And those other countries have problems with deficits and costs in their systems. People waiting and dying while waiting. Dutch doctors pulling the plug on people whether they want it or not. They're not better. There's a reason I hi-tailed it home from medical care in Europe to get what was a simple outpatient procedure here. I wouldn't call those countries more civilized for it. It's just their used to more authoritarian govts having lived under monarchy for so long. Health care used to be affordable and a whole lot cheaper. I can show you a Schiff video on what it used to cost. That's what's civilized. The reason it's so high now is because of having a patchwork socialist system already.

[banyon]

post facto. which is to say, no one is ever denied.

Which is a de facto denial.

[Saul Good]

Which is a de facto denial.

How can somebody be denied after the fact? These two things are mutually exclusive. Either you received treatment or you were denied treatment.

[banyon]

How can somebody be denied after the fact? These two things are mutually exclusive. Either you received treatment or you were denied treatment.

Insurance companies pay lots of people to figure out different ways to deny people coverage. It's not always done honestly. That's what I mean by a defacto denial.

[Saul Good]

Insurance companies pay lots of people to figure out different ways to deny people coverage. It's not always done honestly. That's what I mean by a defacto denial.

So it's a denial in the sense that the person received treatment?

The Chiefs pay lots of people to figure out different ways to win Superbowls. Does that mean that we have defacto championships?

[banyon]

So it's a denial in the sense that the person received treatment?

The Chiefs pay lots of people to figure out different ways to win Superbowls. Does that mean that we have defacto championships?

Only according to Carl Peterson.

To me it's a semantic only distinction about whether people are officially or unofficially screwed out of their coverage and benefits.

[Chief Faithful]

Coverage and cost combine to deny a whole lot of healthcare.

You want to find a system that denies healthcare look at the system Pelosi is pushing. Canadians have national healthcare, but not access. Nobody is dying in the US from lack of access to healthcare, but they are in countries like Canada who have central nationalized healthcare. In the US everyone have access even if they can't pay, which is part of the reason costs are so high. Help people find a way to pay don't replace the whole system with a new bureaucracy.

[Saul Good]

You want to find a system that denies healthcare look at the system Pelosi is pushing. Canadians have national healthcare, but not access. Nobody is dying in the US from lack of access to healthcare, but they are in countries like Canada who have central nationalized healthcare. In the US everyone have access even if they can't pay, which is part of the reason costs are so high. Help people find a way to pay don't replace the whole system with a new bureaucracy.

Why isn't Mitt Romney President?

http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2009/07/mr-president-whats-the-rush.html

[banyon]

You want to find a system that denies healthcare look at the system Pelosi is pushing. Canadians have national healthcare, but not access. Nobody is dying in the US from lack of access to healthcare, but they are in countries like Canada who have central nationalized healthcare. In the US everyone have access even if they can't pay, which is part of the reason costs are so high. Help people find a way to pay don't replace the whole system with a new bureaucracy.

Proof?

[Saul Good]

Proof?

How would one go about proving a negative?

[Fishpicker]

Which is a de facto denial.

not quite. people can deny treatment but it cannot be denied by an insurance company. IF a person thinks they cannot afford a surgery, they might decide against it. But, insurance companies cannot cancel any procedure. Hospitals cannot cancel nor deny procedures. The only way a person can be denied treatment is if they decide for themselves (that the treatment, surgery, or procedure is not worth the cost). Don't get it twisted.

[banyon]

How would one go about proving a negative?

Proving people died in large numbers is proving a negative?

[banyon]

not quite. people can deny treatment but it cannot be denied by an insurance company. IF a person thinks they cannot afford a surgery, they might decide against it. But, insurance companies cannot cancel any procedure. Hospitals cannot cancel nor deny procedures. The only way a person can be denied treatment is if they decide for themselves (that the treatment, surgery, or procedure is not worth the cost). Don't get it twisted.

denial of benefits, denial of procedures, like I said that's a semantic hedge.

[Saul Good]

Proving people died in large numbers is proving a negative?

You asked him to prove that nobody was dying in the US because of it.

[Fishpicker]

denial of benefits, denial of procedures, like I said that's a semantic hedge.

you can conjure up as many semantic disputes as you want... you're wrong

[banyon]

You asked him to prove that nobody was dying in the US because of it.

I bolded both parts of his comparison, but if that was ambiguous, then yes, I meant proof of the large trend in deaths in people denied care in Canada.

[banyon]

you can conjure up as many semantic disputes as you want... you're wrong

People are denied benefits every day for very specious reasons. If you think that's not going on, then I think you're being deliberately obtuse.

[KCChiefsMan]

yup, I'm still f*cked because the one time I needed to go to the ER in 15 years, they refuse to pay it because it was out of state. Debt for years baby!

[Fishpicker]

People are denied benefits every day for very specious reasons. If you think that's not going on, then I think you're being deliberately obtuse.

I never said anything about benefits, I said people cannot be denied treatment. who's being obtuse? you're being obfuscatory.

[banyon]

I never said anything about benefits, I said people cannot be denied treatment. who's being obtuse? you're being obfuscatory.

So long as you agree that insurance companies routinely screw people out of benefits they are otherwise entitled to, then we have no disagreement.

[DaneMcCloud]

I'm just glad that so many people here at Chiefsplanet are so well-versed in the health care industry.

I've learned so much from these posts.

:rolleyes:

[Fishpicker]

So long as you agree that insurance companies routinely screw people out of benefits they are otherwise entitled to, then we have no disagreement.

ok i agree. do you agree that there is no correlation between benefit and treatment?

[banyon]

ok i agree. do you agree that there is no correlation between benefit and treatment?

No, I certainly do not.

There are numerous instance of people being denied treatment when their ability to pay and/or coverage came into question.

Los Angeles area hospitals were prosecuted by the city attorney for a pattern of dumping people on Skid Row who weren't treated. They also settled civil suits for millions for the same conduct.

[Fishpicker]

No, I certainly do not.

There are numerous instance of people being denied treatment when their ability to pay and/or coverage came into question.

Los Angeles area hospitals were prosecuted by the city attorney for a pattern of dumping people on Skid Row who weren't treated. They also settled civil suits for millions for the same conduct.

sooooo... they didnt get away with that? that figures...denying treatment is not allowed. so my original point still stands.

[banyon]

sooooo... they didnt get away with that? that figures...denying treatment is not allowed. so my original point still stands.

Not really, because it only applies to emergency situations, and even then, as those cases showed enforcement is spotty at best.

[Ultra Peanut]

yup, I'm still f*cked because the one time I needed to go to the ER in 15 years, they refuse to pay it because it was out of state. Debt for years baby!BOOTSTRAPS

[BWillie007]

Insurance companies are alot less evil than you make them out to be. Anytime someone doesn't get paid for something, 99% of the time it is not something the insurance companies owes. Insurance doesn't cover everything under the sun, if you don't understand your insurance policy, it's definitions, and it's coverages then it's your fault, not theirs. They send your your policy and show you exactly what it covers and the stipulations. They offer a contract of adhesion, you do not have to agree to their teams if you do not want to.

[Reaper16]

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e57/Thereaper16/charizardall.jpg

[Ultra Peanut]

holy fuck

[BWillie007]

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e57/Thereaper16/charizardall.jpg

that is the funniest sh*t I've read for a long time

[googlegoogle]

blame the health care provider oligopoly.

Why Health Insurers Don't Control Costs | OurFuture.org (http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2009062410/why-health-insurers-dont-control-costs)

[RaiderH8r]

Insurance companies pay lots of people to figure out different ways to deny people coverage. It's not always done honestly. That's what I mean by a defacto denial.

Go to an ER, tell them you need treatment. You're going to get treatment. Period, end of discussion. Who pays for it is a different matter but the bottom line is that you were not denied treatment.

[banyon]

Go to an ER, tell them you need treatment. You're going to get treatment. Period, end of discussion. Who pays for it is a different matter but the bottom line is that you were not denied treatment.

Yeah, hospitals are required to stabilize patients. We covered that already.

[RaiderH8r]

Yeah, hospitals are required to stabilize patients. We covered that already.

Yeah, I pulled a quick reaction without finishing the thread. Rookie mistake.

[banyon]

blame the health care provider oligopoly.

Why Health Insurers Don't Control Costs | OurFuture.org (http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2009062410/why-health-insurers-dont-control-costs)

I'm not sure that link you keep citing to says what you think it does. you might want to read the whole thing instead of just repeatedly blindly linking to it without comment.

[banyon]

Yeah, I pulled a quick reaction without finishing the thread. Rookie mistake.

No big deal.

[bkkcoh]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/p-bY92mcOdk&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/p-bY92mcOdk&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

It seems like their are a lot of people that would like to get rid of insurance companies.

[Garcia Bronco]

An insurance company is nothing but a private social(ist) organization that people choose to participate in (or not) in order to distribute costs. Not a bad thing, except that the government has inserted itself into the equation in so many ways and made it difficult for these organizations to operate.

But now, the government wants a monopoly on this.


BOOM!!!!!! Out of the park again.

[DaneMcCloud]

An insurance company is nothing but a private social(ist) organization that people choose to participate in (or not) in order to distribute costs. Not a bad thing, except that the government has inserted itself into the equation in so many ways and made it difficult for these organizations to operate.

But now, the government wants a monopoly on this.

Government? Ha!

Obama was elected so that this policy would go into affect.

The people of the United States want Universal Healthcare.

[HonestChieffan]

Government? Ha!

Obama was elected so that this policy would go into affect.

The people of the United States want Universal Healthcare.

No. They Don't.

[Garcia Bronco]

Government? Ha!

Obama was elected so that this policy would go into affect.

The people of the United States want Universal Healthcare.

No, they don't. It's all fucked up because Governmetn got involved int eh first place.

[DaneMcCloud]

No. They Don't.

Uh, apparently, you haven't been paying attention.

[Otter]

Government? Ha!

Obama was elected so that this policy would go into affect.

The people of the United States want Universal Healthcare.

Myself and everyone I know who is a citizen of the United States is pretty happy with their health care and don't want the government to touch our policy.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; let our government actually fix something they already ****ed up before taking on more responsibility. Think of it as a merit system.

Let's start with

1. Illegal Immigration
2. The deficit
3. Social Security

As soon as they fix one of them I'll be happy to trust them with something else. Until then it's giving the guy who dropped the ball so many times before the big contract and then having a stupid look on your face a year down the road saying "what happend?".

Those clowns can't run a lemonade stand. Why do you want them in charge of health care and what's the rush after a hundred or so years? Usually when things are pushed like they are doing with health care it's because they want to get it in the books before somebody notices something.

It's plain stupidity.

[DaneMcCloud]

No, they don't. It's all fucked up because Governmetn got involved int eh first place.

What's all "fucked up"?

[DaneMcCloud]

Myself and everyone I know who is a citizen of the United States is pretty happy with their health care and don't want the government to touch our policy.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; let our government actually fix something they already fucked up before taking on more responsibility. Think of it as a merit system.

Let's start with

1. Illegal Immigration
2. The deficit
3. Social Security

As soon as they fix one of them I'll be happy to trust them with something else until then it's giving the guy who dropped so many times before the big contract.

It's plain stupidity.

There are 50 million people in this country that are uninsured. There are thousands of people who lose their jobs and their homes due to medical bills and insurance companies cutting off coverage.

YOU may have it just fine. Millions upon millions don't.

[HonestChieffan]

There are 50 million people in this country that are uninsured. There are thousands of people who lose their jobs and their homes due to medical bills and insurance companies cutting off coverage.

YOU may have it just fine. Millions upon millions don't.

Bullshit.

[DaneMcCloud]

Bullshit.

Oh really?

So you're telling us that people don't run out of insurance benefits, causing them to file bankruptcy?

You're telling us that people don't run out of heath benefits causing, them to lose their homes?

You're telling us that 50 million Americans aren't uninsured?

Really?

You need to get out more.

[Brock]

Great, let's put it to a vote.

[HonestChieffan]

Oh really?

So you're telling us that people don't run out of insurance benefits, causing them to file bankruptcy?

You're telling us that people don't run out of heath benefits causing, them to lose their homes?

You're telling us that 50 million Americans aren't uninsured?

Really?

You need to get out more.



No, Im telling you, not "us" that 50 million is false. Its misleading, and its been covered before. Go to the census data and look on the spreadsheet where that false 47 million (its not 50) comes from.

Yes people go bankrupt. Ask Banyon, he is a lawyer, I dont think even in bankrupcy they acn take your home and make you live in a cardboard box...

[DaneMcCloud]

No, Im telling you, not "us" that 50 million is false. Its misleading, and its been covered before. Go to the census data and look on the spreadsheet where that false 47 million (its not 50) comes from.

Yes people go bankrupt. Ask Banyon, he is a lawyer, I dont think even in bankrupcy they acn take your home and make you live in a cardboard box...

Yes, your house can be taken from you unless you own it outright.

Furthermore, what the fuck is wrong with you that a few extra dollars out of your paycheck to help pay for UHC, to help save American lives and to help Americans who aren't as fortunate as you, is such a big fucking deal?

I'd really like to know.

I think.

[HonestChieffan]

I have no problem if you want to go pay for someone elses whatever you care to pay for. I Dont need you to tell me that I have to allow the government to confiscate what I earn to do the same thing. You do what you want with the money you earn and Ill do the same.

UHC is bullshit. It will reduce the quality across the board, cost more, be inefficient and will be reduced to a rationing system before the weight of cost breaks the country. We can look at your nutbag state and see how that works.

[petegz28]

I have no problem if you want to go pay for someone elses whatever you care to pay for. I Dont need you to tell me that I have to allow the government to confiscate what I earn to do the same thing. You do what you want with the money you earn and Ill do the same.

UHC is bullshit. It will reduce the quality across the board, cost more, be inefficient and will be reduced to a rationing system before the weight of cost breaks the country. We can look at your nutbag state and see how that works.


Treating the illegals alone is already breaking us. On top of all the other social services they receive for free. There does need to be some reform. Insurance companies cannot continue to deny people with pre-conditions and all that. But by the same token, you should be ready to pay more if you do have a condition or develop one. There definitely needs to be some change but the proposed change is not the answer. I don't want a group of "panelists" telling me what I will and will not get for treatments and such.

And there definitely has to be some reform for small businesses to be able to allow affordable coverage.


Now if the Fed Gov wants to give the people the same plans that the Congressman and Senators have, then we might have something to talk about.

[DaneMcCloud]

I have no problem if you want to go pay for someone elses whatever you care to pay for. I Dont need you to tell me that I have to allow the government to confiscate what I earn to do the same thing. You do what you want with the money you earn and Ill do the same.

You're 56 years old (or whatever) and this is your attitude? Seriously? I'm certainly glad you're not part of my family.

You need to take a trip and get the fuck out of Iowa. Go to New Orleans, Mississippi, Alabama, West Virginia or Kentucky. Go work some soup kitchens, delivers Meals-On-Wheels, just do something other than sitting around bitching about the few tax dollars you pay and where it goes.

Or how about just joining the human race?

UHC is bullshit. It will reduce the quality across the board, cost more, be inefficient and will be reduced to a rationing system before the weight of cost breaks the country. We can look at your nutbag state and see how that works.

Well, it sure is a good thing that you've got this all figured out. Since you're an expert on the subject, why don't you take some of your cash and buy a ticket to DC to explain it to everyone.

You know, before the government takes it from you.

:rolleyes:

[Otter]

Furthermore, what the **** is wrong with you that a few extra dollars out of your paycheck to help pay for UHC, to help save American lives and to help Americans who aren't as fortunate as you, is such a big ****ing deal?.

I know this is a sore spot with me because of how it affects my families business but what about the 20 million illegals so many dems want to cover with this bill?

Does breaking into a country give you rights to it's health care benefits paid for by working Americans?

That's a fucking disgrace!

[HonestChieffan]

You believe this crap you put up. That is really frightening. People like you are why we all have to suffer under Pelosi, Reid, Boxer and pay off your states bills. Take care of your own state before you fix the rest of the world.

[DaneMcCloud]

I know this is a sore spot with me because of how it affects my families business but what about the 20 million illegals so many dems want to cover with this bill?

Does breaking into a country give you rights to it's health care benefits paid for by working Americans?

That's a fucking disgrace!

I absolutely agree.

But I think that for the time being, the financial crisis and healthcare are one and two on the President's agenda.

I truly HOPE that illegal immigration is addressed because it affects me and my family greatly.

[petegz28]

You believe this crap you put up. That is really frightening. People like you are why we all have to suffer under Pelosi, Reid, Boxer and pay off your states bills. Take care of your own state before you fix the rest of the world.

It's funny how California is broke but the Dems want to implement the policies that broke them across the rest of the country.

[DaneMcCloud]

You believe this crap you put up. That is really frightening. People like you are why we all have to suffer under Pelosi, Reid, Boxer and pay off your states bills. Take care of your own state before you fix the rest of the world.

Frightening?

Suggesting that you go out and do something for other human beings in need?

What's frightening is that you can't or won't even address it.

What a miserable existence you must lead.

[DaneMcCloud]

It's funny how California is broke but the Dems want to implement the policies that broke them across the rest of the country.

California's "broke" yet we've had a Republican governor for years.

[Otter]

I absolutely agree.

But I think that for the time being, the financial crisis and healthcare are one and two on the President's agenda.

I truly HOPE that illegal immigration is addressed because it affects me and my family greatly.

Pushing them to the front of the line and rewarding their pissing on our laws isn't a solution any more than appeasing a bully because your afraid of getting your ass whooped.

If they try and pass another amnesty there's going to be hell raised and I'll be leading the march. But I've derailed this thread enough.

[petegz28]

Pushing them to the front of the line and rewarding their pissing on our laws isn't a solution any more than appeasing a bully because your afraid of getting your ass whooped.

If they try and pass another amnesty there's going to be hell raised and I'll be leading the march. But I've derailed this thread enough.

Amnesty was passed, more or less. There is no political will to clamp down on illegals.

[Otter]

Amnesty was passed, more or less. There is no political will to clamp down on illegals.

I know of the dream act coming up and Obackstab's push for amnesty coming up at the end of the year or early next. What did I miss?

[DaneMcCloud]

Pushing them to the front of the line and rewarding their pissing on our laws isn't a solution any more than appeasing a bully because your afraid of getting your ass whooped.

If they try and pass another amnesty there's going to be hell raised and I'll be leading the march. But I've derailed this thread enough.

Dude, I am with you and I've repeated stated as such.

I live in a neighborhood where each and every home is worth multi-millions. The next neighborhood over (Beachwood Canyon) is exactly the same. We share an elementary school (Cheremoya Elementary) that is less than 5 minutes from my home. Yet no one from either neighborhood chooses to place their children in that school, opting for private school that costs at a minimum of $10k per year.

Why? Illegals.

There are so many illegals in that school from apartment complexes in Hollywood that good teachers won't teach there. They don't want to work in an enviroment where English isn't the first language of more than 50% of the would-be students. It's frustrating for them to "dumb-down" their teachings because so many can't follow along. It's frustrating for us as parents that have to (and in our case, will have to in 3 years) pay in excess of $10k per year for fucking elementary school.

But as much as it sucks (and it SUCKS), the Federal government has bigger fish to fry at the moment. But I will be extremely disappointed if this huge issue is not address by 2011 at the latest.

[petegz28]

I know of the dream act coming up and Obackstab's push for amnesty coming up at the end of the year or early next. What did I miss?

The Repubs had the red carpet laid out for them to slam the illegal immigation in 05-06 and they blew it. This more or less told the illegals that nothing will ever be done about them.

[Taco John]

So long as you agree that insurance companies routinely screw people out of benefits they are otherwise entitled to, then we have no disagreement.

Don't we have a legal system in this country to sort this out?

[Otter]

The Repubs had the red carpet laid out for them to slam the illegal immigation in 05-06 and they blew it. This more or less told the illegals that nothing will ever be done about them.

We'll see. I remember hearing from illegals when Bush tried to pass amnesty that "in a month my vote will mean as much as yours" and we slam dunked their criminal asses.

[DaneMcCloud]

Don't we have a legal system in this country to sort this out?

Yeah, the Office of the Public Defender often takes on Big Insurance and wins, all the time.

:rolleyes: