The Spin Behind The “No Health Benefits To Organic Food” Scam

[KILLER_CLOWN]

The Spin Behind The “No Health Benefits To Organic Food” Scam

Post Peak Publishing
Thursday, July 30, 2009

According to the UK’s Food Standards Agency, and as gleefully reported today by the BBC, ‘Organic has no health benefits’, so we can all breath a sigh of relief and return to eating pesticide and chemical filled garbage. There’s probably no health benefits to unleaded paint then, eh? Any benefits left in quitting smoking? Do we even need to debunk this utter foolishness?

Personally, I wouldn’t expect an organic pepper to have significantly more nutrients than any other pepper, since they are usually not genetically engineered, though nutrient levels were the only factor in the study’s determinations. Turns out organic peppers do indeed have elevated nutrient levels, but not significantly elevated, according to the FSA. The health benefits of not ingesting a host of ingredients far too dangerous to be included in a child’s chemistry set is a glaring omission.

According to the study’s Executive Summary:

“This review does not address contaminant content (such as herbicide, pesticide and fungicide residues) of organically and conventionally produced foodstuffs or the environmental impacts of organic and conventional agricultural practices.”

And not all studies on organic and conventional practices were reviewed…

Articles were excluded if they:

were not peer-reviewed
did not have an English abstract
did not address composition of nutrients and other substances
did not present a direct comparison between organic and conventional production systems
were primarily concerned with impact of different fertiliser (sic) regimes
were primarily concerned with non-nutrient contaminant content (cadmium, lead and mercury)
were authentication studies describing techniques to identify food production methods


In other words, only Western studies focused strictly on nutrient comparison were reviewed. That would seem to overlook many studies which might show organic food to be a much healthier option. It’s a safe bet that the overwhelming majority of the reviewed studies were the product of the traditional food industry.

Was the outcome of this study preordained? If you’re gonna talk health, why omit studying all the unhealthy stuff that the organic movement seeks to evade?

The study itself appears to come from the UK’s Food Standards Agency, which outsourced the analysis of about 50,000 papers published over the past 50 years to a group within the University of London’s London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine (LSHTM), headed by Dr. Alan Dangour, nutrition specialist. A handful of University of London personnel are also credited, including Ricardo Uauy, M.D. Ph.D., Professor of Public Health Nutrition. Alan and Ricardo have co-published no less than 9 publications, in other words, they’re ‘tight’.

According to the Integrity in Science Database, Dr. Uauy has been a paid advisor to Unilever, Wyeth, Danone, DSM, Kellogg, Knowles and Bolton, Roche Vitamins Europe Ltd., and the International Copper Association. Probably not chicken feed either. My foray into research could very likely turn up Monsanto and/or its ilk lurking behind this study as well, had I the time.

http://www.food.gov.uk/news/newsarchive/2009/jul/organic

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8174482.stm

http://www.cspinet.org/integrity/index.html

http://postpeakpublishing.com/index_temp.htm

[banyon]

They reported a study and then included criticism. I don't think "gleefully reported" is very accurate.

He added that better quality studies were needed...

..."Although the researchers say that the differences between organic and non-organic food are not 'important', due to the relatively few studies, they report in their analysis that there are higher levels of beneficial nutrients in organic compared to non-organic foods.

"Without large-scale, longitudinal research it is difficult to come to far-reaching clear conclusions on this, which was acknowledged by the authors of the FSA review.

"Also, there is not sufficient research on the long-term effects of pesticides on human health," he added.

[ClevelandBronco]

...According to the UK’s Food Standards Agency...

...were primarily concerned with impact of different fertiliser (sic)...

No "sic" necessary. That's how it's spelled in the U.K.

They don't use the "zed" much.

[Reaper16]

Killer Clown is generally disposed to craziness, so it feels weird to be on the same side of an issue as him. It makes me wonder if I'm going crazy.

[Fishpicker]

that GMO stuff is nasty. feeding GMO grains to farm animals results in infertility. I'll take my chances with organic even if it is overpriced.

[Chiefspants]

My mother's gone all organic for the last three years. It's obvious that the food is much better for you. But like anything good in this world Big Business is going to relinquish this fact to the general public out of their cold manicured hands.

[ClevelandBronco]

My mother's gone all organic for the last three years. It's obvious that the food is much better for you...

I doubt it. I bet she dies before you.

[Reaper16]

I bet she dies before you.
Way to go out on a limb there.

[KILLER_CLOWN]

Killer Clown is generally disposed to truthiness, so it feels weird to be on the same side of an issue as him. It makes me wonder if I'm going crazy.

FYP! ;)

[petegz28]

This review does not address contaminant content (such as herbicide, pesticide and fungicide residues)

LMAO

[petegz28]

that GMO stuff is nasty. feeding GMO grains to farm animals results in infertility. I'll take my chances with organic even if it is overpriced.

Damn shame it costs more to eat healthy, heh?

[KILLER_CLOWN]

Damn shame it costs more to eat healthy, heh?

I look at it like this you can pay now or pay later, I would rather avoid all the ills that come with eating GMO. Seems to me organic food is fairly cheap considering all factors involved, i can avoid having health insurance alltogether well at least until uncle sugar steps in and makes me buy it.

[jiveturkey]

This is going to make me sound like a hippy douche but my wife and I have been eating primarily organic for a couple of months now and I've actually lost 10 lbs without changing my exercise routine. I feel better too.

The food just tastes better so we eat at home a lot more than we used to thus reducing the overall expense.

[petegz28]

I look at it like this you can pay now or pay later, I would rather avoid all the ills that come with eating GMO. Seems to me organic food is fairly cheap considering all factors involved, i can avoid having health insurance alltogether well at least until uncle sugar steps in and makes me buy it.

we buy as much organic as we can afford

[whatsmynameagain]

pen and tellers bullshit said that 20% of organic food is imported from china..........
Posted via Mobile Device

[wild1]

Longer term study certainly seems to be warranted on the benefits above and beyond food which meets all other safety guidelines.

One thing that I think is a detriment to this movement is the fact that food that is much more mass-produced and freely/cheaply available is depended upon by the lower class within the United States, to say nothing of the rest of the world.

The more the world's wealthy (to include everyone in the United States) demand their food be produced with more inefficient farming methods, the greater hunger pressures will be exerted on the "poor" in this country and the truly poor in other parts of the world. If everyone began to eat organic food there would probably be a significant increase in hunger and starvation worldwide.

It has the effect of the wealthy demanding even more of the world's farmland be devoted to serving their champagne tastes, leaving less for everyone else.

[Donger]

I only eat organic food (while the wife is watching, anyway).

[HonestChieffan]

Food Crazies just hate studies that don't prove food kookieness claims.

[KILLER_CLOWN]

Longer term study certainly seems to be warranted on the benefits above and beyond food which meets all other safety guidelines.

One thing that I think is a detriment to this movement is the fact that food that is much more mass-produced and freely/cheaply available is depended upon by the lower class within the United States, to say nothing of the rest of the world.

The more the world's wealthy (to include everyone in the United States) demand their food be produced with more inefficient farming methods, the greater hunger pressures will be exerted on the "poor" in this country and the truly poor in other parts of the world. If everyone began to eat organic food there would probably be a significant increase in hunger and starvation worldwide.

It has the effect of the wealthy demanding even more of the world's farmland be devoted to serving their champagne tastes, leaving less for everyone else.

This is not true it's actually cheaper to produce organic food, and stay away from these dangerous pesticides. Champagne tastes LOL, i hope(not BO style) you are paid to say these things because they simply aren't true.

[jiveturkey]

It has the effect of the wealthy demanding even more of the world's farmland be devoted to serving their champagne tastes, leaving less for everyone else.Sounds like someone hates the free market. :D

Go to a farmers market on Saturday morning and tell everyone they're going to kill all of the poor people. And then go eat a hamburger that's been soaked in ammonia to kill the e coli.

[Stewie]

If it makes you feel better to eat "organic," do it. Ninety-five percent of the time eating organic isn't as pristine as you think.

[KILLER_CLOWN]

If it makes you feel better to eat "organic," do it. Ninety-five percent of the time eating organic isn't as pristine as you think.

Yes sir since i've switched my daily aches and pains have dissappeared, along with increased energy, weight loss and the added bonus of not getting sick since(was 3-4 times a year). I used to think it was bogus BS until i tried it for a month. I'm telling you it really is amazing to eat what our bodies were designed to.

[BucEyedPea]

I doubt it. I bet she dies before you.

It's true CB. It doesn't mean regular food is bad for you but the nutritional content has higher doses of what we need. I've been organic since pregnant and I checked that all out. It also has much more flavor. Compare a standardly grown butternut squash to an organic butternut squash. Much sweeter. That's the trace minerals in it. The trace minerals are the spark plugs that make your vitamins work.

Don't poo-poo it until you've researched it more.

[wild1]

This is not true it's actually cheaper to produce organic food, and stay away from these dangerous pesticides. Champagne tastes LOL, i hope(not BO style) you are paid to say these things because they simply aren't true.

So then, why do farmers use the naughty stuff, if not to increase the yield for a given parcel of land?

[BucEyedPea]

So then, why do farmers use the naughty stuff, if not to increase the yield for a given parcel of land?

Because it increases the yield for a given parcel of land....it's a business.
That doesn't mean the quality is better. Some people are price buyers.
So they sell more at lower prices for less quality.
Same as any given market. Each buyer does their own valuing.

[BucEyedPea]

Sounds like someone hates the free market. :D

Go to a farmers market on Saturday morning and tell everyone they're going to kill all of the poor people. And then go eat a hamburger that's been soaked in ammonia to kill the e coli.

LMAO

e coli can be on lettuce too.

[BucEyedPea]

Food Crazies just hate studies that don't prove food kookieness claims.

And farmers on subsidies for their kinda produce or meat love to call their competitors crazies. Just like the ama called chiros quacks to get rid of any competition for which they were found guilty in court.

So which is it? Do you like the free-market or do you not like it?

[BucEyedPea]

I'm on my way out to a French creperie. Bye.

[donkhater]

Where to begin....

that GMO stuff is nasty. feeding GMO grains to farm animals results in infertility. I'll take my chances with organic even if it is overpriced.

What utter and complete BS. And the worst part is, the public is so predisposed to believing organic is God they actually believe tripe like this.

It's true CB. It doesn't mean regular food is bad for you but the nutritional content has higher doses of what we need. I've been organic since pregnant and I checked that all out. It also has much more flavor. Compare a standardly grown butternut squash to an organic butternut squash. Much sweeter. That's the trace minerals in it. The trace minerals are the spark plugs that make your vitamins work.

Don't poo-poo it until you've researched it more.

Organic food is usually picked closer to ripeness than mass-produced foods. They have to be, because if they were picked then allowed to ripen, they would be at risk to rot much quicker. Organics are much sweeter because the natural sugers develop most in the last few days of ripening on the vine. Nothing to do with trace minerals.

If it makes you feel better to eat "organic," do it. Ninety-five percent of the time eating organic isn't as pristine as you think.

Absolutely true.

If you can grow or purchase fresh produce without the need for pesticides, more power to you, they are delicious. If you are not in that position, wash your food before you eat it, you'll be fine. It may not taste as good, but that is only due to the amount of time it had to ripen on the vine.

Give me two tomato plants. I'll spray one with pesticides and grow the other organic. Pick them fresh at the same date and no one here would be able to tell the difference---guaranteed.

As for GMO foods, I'll just say it's obvious that some of you are terribly mislead on the science behind GMO's.

[Reaper16]

Where to begin....



What utter and complete BS. And the worst part is, the public is so predisposed to believing organic is God they actually believe tripe like this.



Organic food is usually picked closer to ripeness than mass-produced foods. They have to be, because if they were picked then allowed to ripen, they would be at risk to rot much quicker. Organics are much sweeter because the natural sugers develop most in the last few days of ripening on the vine. Nothing to do with trace minerals.



Absolutely true.

If you can grow or purchase fresh produce without the need for pesticides, more power to you, they are delicious. If you are not in that position, wash your food before you eat it, you'll be fine. It may not taste as good, but that is only due to the amount of time it had to ripen on the vine.

Give me two tomato plants. I'll spray one with pesticides and grow the other organic. Pick them fresh at the same date and no one here would be able to tell the difference---guaranteed.

As for GMO foods, I'll just say it's obvious that some of you are terribly mislead on the science behind GMO's.
Whatever yo, I'm going to eat foods that come from places that I know. I will be better off for it, and yes, I can taste the difference.

[donkhater]

Whatever yo, I'm going to eat foods that come from places that I know. I will be better off for it, and yes, I can taste the difference.

Go for it. As for the taste, it is more a difference in hybrid and ripeness than organic/non-organic.

[BucEyedPea]

Go for it. As for the taste, it is more a difference in hybrid and ripeness than organic/non-organic.

Not always. Organic still has more vitamins and minerals by actual tests and the charts I've seen comparing them to non. You can taste the difference in many of the fruits and veggies just not all of them. They are sweeter. Some are just stronger in flavor.

[BucEyedPea]

Organic food is usually picked closer to ripeness than mass-produced foods. They have to be, because if they were picked then allowed to ripen, they would be at risk to rot much quicker. Organics are much sweeter because the natural sugers develop most in the last few days of ripening on the vine. Nothing to do with trace minerals.
That is also true but the minerals do make a taste difference as well. Shipped foods lose nutrition over time as well. Best to eat locally grown as the next best thing to do.

But even when Martha Stewart teaches cooking she insists on certain veggies being bought as organic due to the taste.



If you are not in that position, wash your food before you eat it, you'll be fine. It may not taste as good, but that is only due to the amount of time it had to ripen on the vine.
Some say washing the residue or pesticides off works. It doesn't. The pesticides get into the cell per nutritionists. At one time organic could not be done as a large scale farming. Now it can per an organic farmer that told me at least.

Give me two tomato plants. I'll spray one with pesticides and grow the other organic. Pick them fresh at the same date and no one here would be able to tell the difference---guaranteed.
That's why I said not all of them. Tomatoes is one that still tastes better garden grown on your own organic or otherwise. I've done that.

BTW produce as well as dairy products tastes better in Europe. Also the store bought blueberries have no flavor after you've picked wild blueberries on your own. Much better taste.

[irishjayhawk]

As for GMO foods, I'll just say it's obvious that some of you are terribly mislead on the science behind GMO's.

Food science is a fledgling. It's not very credible at the moment.

A good analogy - I forget where I heard it or who said it - is that food science today is like medical science was in 1650; specifically surgery.

In fact, a good argument can be made against the current prevailing science now dubbed nutritionism.

[Fishpicker]

What utter and complete BS. And the worst part is, the public is so predisposed to believing organic is God they actually believe tripe like this.


As for GMO foods, I'll just say it's obvious that some of you are terribly mislead on the science behind GMO's.

so point us in the right direction. cultivation of GM maize/corn has been banned in Germany. were they suckered?

If GMO was proven safe, I wouldn't have a problem eating it. But it hasn't been proven and I don't want to be the proof either way. I'll stay skeptical, because that's the prudent route. If you want to put your trust in GMO, go right ahead.

aren't most GMO produced by monsanto? Im not going to give them the benefit of a doubt when it comes to our food supply. Thats the same company that manufactured Agent Orange.

[petegz28]

Not always. Organic still has more vitamins and minerals by actual tests and the charts I've seen comparing them to non. You can taste the difference in many of the fruits and veggies just not all of them. They are sweeter. Some are just stronger in flavor.

Agreed 100%

[KILLER_CLOWN]

Where to begin....



What utter and complete BS. And the worst part is, the public is so predisposed to believing organic is God they actually believe tripe like this.



Organic food is usually picked closer to ripeness than mass-produced foods. They have to be, because if they were picked then allowed to ripen, they would be at risk to rot much quicker. Organics are much sweeter because the natural sugers develop most in the last few days of ripening on the vine. Nothing to do with trace minerals.



Absolutely true.

If you can grow or purchase fresh produce without the need for pesticides, more power to you, they are delicious. If you are not in that position, wash your food before you eat it, you'll be fine. It may not taste as good, but that is only due to the amount of time it had to ripen on the vine.

Give me two tomato plants. I'll spray one with pesticides and grow the other organic. Pick them fresh at the same date and no one here would be able to tell the difference---guaranteed.

As for GMO foods, I'll just say it's obvious that some of you are terribly mislead on the science behind GMO's.

Great you're going to be using the government health care to take care of you when you start having problems from eating that garbage. It's all on you!
Screw your science, i'll take what God has given me.

[donkhater]

That is also true but the minerals do make a taste difference as well. Shipped foods lose nutrition over time as well. Best to eat locally grown as the next best thing to do.

Shipped foods lose nutrition over time because once the fruit is picked, it begins to produce defensive chemicals called alkaloids. These alkaloids are nasty, nasty molecules WAY more toxic than any pesticide that would be sprayed on them. That's why rotten veggies taste bitter. Hence the need for preservatives if the food will be shipped over long periods of time.

I'm not arguing that locally grown produce is better. It is generally much fresher. That is why....

But even when Martha Stewart teaches cooking she insists on certain veggies being bought as organic due to the taste.

Because it's generally riper.


Some say washing the residue or pesticides off works. It doesn't. The pesticides get into the cell per nutritionists. At one time organic could not be done as a large scale farming. Now it can per an organic farmer that told me at least.

Not to the extent of conventional farming.


That's why I said not all of them. Tomatoes is one that still tastes better garden grown on your own organic or otherwise. I've done that.

BTW produce as well as dairy products tastes better in Europe. Also the store bought blueberries have no flavor after you've picked wild blueberries on your own. Much better taste.

Again, hybrid/ripeness differences are the most likely reason

:D

[Silock]

Killer Clown is generally disposed to craziness, so it feels weird to be on the same side of an issue as him. It makes me wonder if I'm going crazy.

I know, right? I got chills.

[Silock]

Pick them fresh at the same date and no one here would be able to tell the difference---guaranteed.


That's a silly argument. There are tons of things we can ingest that are hazardous to our health that we can't taste.

[donkhater]

Great you're going to be using the government health care to take care of you when you start having problems from eating that garbage. It's all on you!
Screw your science, i'll take what God has given me.

I'm not bashing organics. I love them too. If you have the means and ability to have them in your diet, great. I'm just not paranoid about more conventional farming techniques. They are not garbage.

There are over 4x the number of insect species than the number of all other species combined. Add to that the number of fungal pathogens on this planet and you let me know if you ever find a way to feed a ballooning world population with strictly organic methods. Let me know how many forests you're willingly to plow under to get the acreage needed and tell me how you are going to store all that food.

[donkhater]

That's a silly argument. There are tons of things we can ingest that are hazardous to our health that we can't taste.

Sure, but they were arguing that they could taste the difference. I'm saying I doubt they could if they were both picked at the same time.

[donkhater]

so point us in the right direction. cultivation of GM maize/corn has been banned in Germany. were they suckered?

I wouldn't say that, but I also wouldn't say that governments are the best source of rational science theory. Global warming anyone? Or is it climate change now? They are acting in a way that they think their constituents want them too. That's fine.

If GMO was proven safe, I wouldn't have a problem eating it. But it hasn't been proven and I don't want to be the proof either way. I'll stay skeptical, because that's the prudent route. If you want to put your trust in GMO, go right ahead.

Hey, every person has that right. I'm not here trying to push things down your throat. This isn't all that different from the Health care debate. What we do with our own bodies is the most basic liberities we have. I understand the science behind GM foods and feel perfectly fine consuming them. And despite the posts around here that claim otherwise, they are not garbage.

aren't most GMO produced by monsanto? Im not going to give them the benefit of a doubt when it comes to our food supply. Thats the same company that manufactured Agent Orange.

Well, there it is, right? It's the distrust in major corporations that is really behind most of this. And I'm not going to say that it is all that illogical, either. It's completely understandable.

BTW, the major ingredient in Agent Orange was a perfectly fine herbicide. It was the dioxin that was a by-product of it's manufacture that wasn't adequately removed or dealt with by the firms that were contracted to produce it that was the nasty actor.

I've written this on other posts and I'll type it again: The best argument against GM foods is the potential distruction of plant biodiversity, not whether they are safe to consume. At least, for me that is.

[Silock]

Sure, but they were arguing that they could taste the difference. I'm saying I doubt they could if they were both picked at the same time.

Well, that I'll agree with.

[BucEyedPea]

I've written this on other posts and I'll type it again: The best argument against GM foods is the potential distruction of plant biodiversity, not whether they are safe to consume. At least, for me that is.

I'll admit I haven't researched or study GM foods close enough. However, what I do know about food as well as vitamins ( which are basically nutrition in a bottle) is that since we don't know all the co-factors that are in nature which make them effective then why take the chance of genetically altered food by man. Man doesn't know enough to claim to beat mother nature. Food science and nutrition are growing and evolving subjects and it's in the natural science areas that more about hidden co-factors are being discovered. So when you buy man-made vitamins from a lab, they still do not have those co-factors where more natural supplements include them. This is true of the garbage sold in commercial versions advertised on tv like Centrum etc. It's junk.

Sorry but I don't believe man is able to fool mother nature. I think it's hubris when we think we can.

[donkhater]

I'll admit I haven't researched or study GM foods close enough. However, what I do know about food as well as vitamins ( which are basically nutrition in a bottle) is that since we don't know all the co-factors that are in nature which make them effective then why take the chance of genetically altered food by man. Man doesn't know enough to claim to beat mother nature. Food science and nutrition are growing and evolving subjects and it's in the natural science areas that more about hidden co-factors are being discovered. So when you buy man-made vitamins from a lab, the still do not have those co-factors where more natural supplements include them.

Sorry but I don't believe man is able to fool mother nature. I think it's hubris when we think we can.

Well, you may be able to make that argument against pesticide use. While I believe the majoirty of pesticides on the market today are incredibly safe in and of themselves, I do not confess to have the knowledge of their effects on regulation of plant cells, although I would suspect that it is so minute that you couldn't even measure it. Trust me when I say that an incredible amount of research goes into determining the safety of a pesticide before it goes to market and pesticide residues in the fruit at harvest time are at the top of the list.

The anti-GM food crowd has taken to labelling GM foods as "Frankenstein foods". It's a clever way to easily make the public wary. Not that I'm necessarily against the public being skeptical, but organic farmers have a stake in success of GM foods as well.

Plants have evolved through hybridization techniques over the centuries. There are many hybrids, let alone vegetables and fruits themselves that were not even on this planet a century ago. Before the boom of biotechnology, seed companies used hybridization techniques to improve traits such as yield, drought-resistance, insect resistance, flavor, etc. It takes time and can be an inaccurate way to introduce the trait you desire. Many times during the process other proteins are affected that could go unnoticed in the final plant. If anything is "Frankenstein foods" I consider this to be.

GM technology is the ability to change the one gene or sets of genes responsible for the desired trait without changing the rest of the plant's DNA. Frankly I don't view this as being any different from a safety standpoint as doing it through traditional hybridization techniques, but everyone has to satisfy themselves on that point. I'm not trying to force anyone to eat anything they don't want to, I'm just trying to balance the discussion with an alternative veiwpoint, which I happen to think is valid.

As I've said before, there are some farming practices that push the limits of ethics and safety. Biodiversity, hormone-laden meat and dairy, etc are things I am concerned with as well. Pesticides and GM foods less so because I feel I understand them better.

[kcfanXIII]

I'm not bashing organics. I love them too. If you have the means and ability to have them in your diet, great. I'm just not paranoid about more conventional farming techniques. They are not garbage.

There are over 4x the number of insect species than the number of all other species combined. Add to that the number of fungal pathogens on this planet and you let me know if you ever find a way to feed a ballooning world population with strictly organic methods. Let me know how many forests you're willingly to plow under to get the acreage needed and tell me how you are going to store all that food.

it'd be easy. people grow their own, store their own, and eat their own. that won't happen though because then people won't make money. another question, why are the gmo farmers going out of their way to bash organics? why were the chemicals used in the production excluded from the study? maybe because it would prove that the mass produced food is less safe. people are waking up, and the more that do, the more propaganda BS we will be force fed.

watch what happens when reporters try to explain the truth:
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/axU9ngbTxKw&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/axU9ngbTxKw&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[kcfanXIII]

from the wall street journal:
"Through Monsanto's patents and licenses, six companies have gained control of half to three-quarters of U.S. corn and soybean seed distribution, and they're now poised to monopolize food production worldwide"

and it is an article standing up for monsanto.

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/_wsj-ecological_eugenics.htm

[jiveturkey]

watch what happens when reporters try to explain the truth:
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/axU9ngbTxKw&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/axU9ngbTxKw&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>The idea of lawyers rewriting the news is pretty scary.

[wild1]

:tinfoil:

[petegz28]

Sure, but they were arguing that they could taste the difference. I'm saying I doubt they could if they were both picked at the same time.

I could tell you the taste difference between organic and non-organic bananas in a split second. And probably apples as well. I coudl definitely tell you the difference between organic and non-organic milk. Most organic foods tasste better. Look at organic non-fat milk vs. non-organic non-fat milk...you can literally see the difference and taste it as well. Plus, oddly enough, my organic milk lasts a lot longer than non-organic.

[donkhater]

it'd be easy. people grow their own, store their own, and eat their own. that won't happen though because then people won't make money. another question, why are the gmo farmers going out of their way to bash organics? why were the chemicals used in the production excluded from the study? maybe because it would prove that the mass produced food is less safe. people are waking up, and the more that do, the more propaganda BS we will be force fed.



Oh sure everybody grow their own food year-round.:rolleyes: Do you even grasp the practical impossibility of something like that happening?

I don't of any GMO farmers bashing organics. I'm sure it's there, but gather it's in response to the organic farmers bashing GMOs.

[donkhater]

so point us in the right direction. cultivation of GM maize/corn has been banned in Germany. were they suckered?


BTW you think the European Ag companies (Germany-based BASF and Bayer as well as Syngenta) had anything to do with the German government banning a technology dominated by their main competition?:rolleyes:

[donkhater]

I could tell you the taste difference between organic and non-organic bananas in a split second. And probably apples as well. I coudl definitely tell you the difference between organic and non-organic milk. Most organic foods tasste better. Look at organic non-fat milk vs. non-organic non-fat milk...you can literally see the difference and taste it as well. Plus, oddly enough, my organic milk lasts a lot longer than non-organic.

So you know that the bananas were picked at the same time and are of the same variety? I doubt it. Your anecdotal evidence doesn't convince me at all.

As for the milk, I believe it. Hormones et al present in a secreting bodily liquid like milk is entirely believable. Comparing organic animal products with organic plant products is like comparing apples and oranges (or bananas).:D

[Stewie]

Yes sir since i've switched my daily aches and pains have dissappeared, along with increased energy, weight loss and the added bonus of not getting sick since(was 3-4 times a year). I used to think it was bogus BS until i tried it for a month. I'm telling you it really is amazing to eat what our bodies were designed to.

My point was that being "organic" is a very gray area. The rules and stipulations allow the term to be abused and still fall under the organic umbrella.

[petegz28]

So you know that the bananas were picked at the same time and are of the same variety? I doubt it. Your anecdotal evidence doesn't convince me at all.

As for the milk, I believe it. Hormones et al present in a secreting bodily liquid like milk is entirely believable. Comparing organic animal products with organic plant products is like comparing apples and oranges (or bananas).:D

I could tell you by looking at bananas picked at the same time...organics are smaller and taste sweeter. It is very obvious.

[donkhater]

My point was that being "organic" is a very gray area. The rules and stipulations allow the term to be abused and still fall under the organic umbrella.

Yep. Did you know that organic farmers can spray their crops with pesticides as long as that pesticide is a natural product? That natural product in no way differs from other synthetic compounds in terms of potency or toxicity, but since it was made by nature it is deemed OK by the regulatory body that oversees organic farming.

BTW, strychnine is a natural product, too.

[BucEyedPea]

My point was that being "organic" is a very gray area. The rules and stipulations allow the term to be abused and still fall under the organic umbrella.

I'd be interested in hearing how that is happening because as a far as I know there is a labeling in the industry which the govt is now involved in. The terms natural, organic etc have specific meanings which can be looked up. Then there's 100% organic etc. One can also research the sources of each brand to make more of a determination. I believe that good healthy soil is of importance too. I don't think it's all that grey an area; only in a very limited sense.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/afsic/pubs/ofp/ofp.shtml

I did find this which may answer my question but it still refers to what I said as well.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/06/19/FDRJ187G2S.DTL


Organic has a precise meaning under the USDA's organic program. Certified 100% Organic means that all the ingredients in a product have been grown or raised according to the USDA's organic standards, which are the rules for producing foods labeled organic. Certified Organic requires that 95 to 99 percent of the ingredients follow the rules.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/06/19/FDRJ187G2S.DTL#ixzz0N3SVdILn

[donkhater]

I could tell you by looking at bananas picked at the same time...organics are smaller and taste sweeter. It is very obvious.

Of course they are sweeter. They are left on the tree longer to ripen. If they were picked green and shipped long differences for long times, a preservative would have to be used to gaurd against rot/infestation

[BucEyedPea]

I could tell you the taste difference between organic and non-organic bananas in a split second. And probably apples as well. I coudl definitely tell you the difference between organic and non-organic milk. Most organic foods tasste better. Look at organic non-fat milk vs. non-organic non-fat milk...you can literally see the difference and taste it as well. Plus, oddly enough, my organic milk lasts a lot longer than non-organic.

I've been using organic milk for 15 years now. If I drink the non-organic stuff now it doesn't even taste like milk. It's putrid. People who are used to that stuff have had their taste buds killed. Commercial milk is the worst in this country. They allow raw milk in England and France. In fact the brie in France is made with non-pasteurized dairy....which has a different taste.

Raw milk has the enzymes left in it which help a person digest it. It's no wonder more people have trouble digesting dairy products these days. Cows used to graze on natural grasses, being herbivores which had herbs that killed diseases in them.

[petegz28]

Of course they are sweeter. They are left on the tree longer to ripen. If they were picked green and shipped long differences for long times, a preservative would have to be used to gaurd against rot/infestation

And they are smaller

[Stewie]

Yep. Did you know that organic farmers can spray their crops with pesticides as long as that pesticide is a natural product? That natural product in no way differs from other synthetic compounds in terms of potency or toxicity, but since it was made by nature it is deemed OK by the regulatory body that oversees organic farming.

BTW, strychnine is a natural product, too.

Absolutely. That's the problem. Some of the most powerful and harmful insecticides and herbicides are "natural" and allowed in organic farming. Pyrethrin is absolutely allowed in organic farming, yet it's toxic footprint is huge.

[Stewie]

Here's a list of "allowed" and "disallowed" pesticides in organic farming. Notice that Rotenone and Sabadilla are organic and used in huge amounts in "organic farming" and are highly toxic.

All poisons used in pesticides are rated on a scale called EIQ, or Environmental Impact Quotient. They are tested for range of toxicity, or what it is they will harm or kill. Let's say the poison doesn't harm people in anything short of beer-chugging amounts; that might merit a 2. If an ounce of the stuff in a stretch of stream kills all the fish; give it a 10. The poisons are tested for how long they stay in the soil, in plants, if they kill bees, if they kill worms, etc.

Here are some interesting EIQs:

<table align="left" width="490"> <tbody> <tr> <td> Bt (organic)
</td> <td>13.5 </td></tr> <tr> <td> Acephate (synthetic)
</td> <td>17.9 </td></tr> <tr> <td> Soap (organic)
</td> <td>19.5 </td></tr> <tr> <td> Carbaryl (synthetic)
</td> <td>22.6 </td></tr> <tr> <td> Malathion (synthetic)
</td> <td>23.2 </td></tr> <tr> <td> Rotenone (organic)
</td> <td>33.0 </td></tr> <tr> <td> Sabadilla (organic)
</td> <td>35.6 </td></tr></tbody></table>

[Stewie]

Wow! This thread came to a screeching halt when I put up some numbers.

From what I can tell, the "organic" eaters prefer the taste of Rotenone and Sabadilla compared to the non-organic farmers who don't use those toxins. They must add sugar to Rotenone and Sabadilla.

[BucEyedPea]

Wow! This thread came to a screeching halt when I put up some numbers.

From what I can tell, the "organic" eaters prefer the taste of Rotenone and Sabadilla compared to the non-organic farmers who don't use those toxins. They must add sugar to Rotenone and Sabadilla.

Not with me. I eat organic for the nutritional content and it being grown on richer soil richer in minerals.

[wild1]

Snake oil

[BucEyedPea]

Here's a list of "allowed" and "disallowed" pesticides in organic farming. Notice that Rotenone and Sabadilla are organic and used in huge amounts in "organic farming" and are highly toxic.

All poisons used in pesticides are rated on a scale called EIQ, or Environmental Impact Quotient. They are tested for range of toxicity, or what it is they will harm or kill. Let's say the poison doesn't harm people in anything short of beer-chugging amounts; that might merit a 2. If an ounce of the stuff in a stretch of stream kills all the fish; give it a 10. The poisons are tested for how long they stay in the soil, in plants, if they kill bees, if they kill worms, etc.

Here are some interesting EIQs:

<table align="left" width="490"> <tbody> <tr> <td> Bt (organic)
</td> <td>13.5 </td></tr> <tr> <td> Acephate (synthetic)
</td> <td>17.9 </td></tr> <tr> <td> Soap (organic)
</td> <td>19.5 </td></tr> <tr> <td> Carbaryl (synthetic)
</td> <td>22.6 </td></tr> <tr> <td> Malathion (synthetic)
</td> <td>23.2 </td></tr> <tr> <td> Rotenone (organic)
</td> <td>33.0 </td></tr> <tr> <td> Sabadilla (organic)
</td> <td>35.6 </td></tr></tbody></table>


I wouldn't want the Rotogene ( also comes from plants) but organic insectides need more frequent application. So they are just to expensive to use for an organic farmer which is a recipe for bankruptcy. And not everyone agrees with these being as toxic as the synthetic stuff. Sulfur is used by both, but is naturally occurring and not terribly risky although it can give you a rash. Still it's not in the same league as conventional fungicides.


I know this, some of the produce that is not locally grown but has been from Guatemala or Mexico has had me in the throes of nauseau and illness immediately after consumption. I have no idea what they use but I hear it's even worse than conventional farmers here.

[Stewie]

Not with me. I eat organic for the nutritional content and it being grown on richer soil richer in minerals.

ONLY buy produce from clay-rich soil. Anything else is supplemented with crap.

[BucEyedPea]

Snake oil

Evidence?

[petegz28]

Wow! This thread came to a screeching halt when I put up some numbers.

From what I can tell, the "organic" eaters prefer the taste of Rotenone and Sabadilla compared to the non-organic farmers who don't use those toxins. They must add sugar to Rotenone and Sabadilla.

Hardly....

I will ask you for a link showing where these things are actually being used?

[BucEyedPea]

Absolutely. That's the problem. Some of the most powerful and harmful insecticides and herbicides are "natural" and allowed in organic farming. Pyrethrin is absolutely allowed in organic farming, yet it's toxic footprint is huge.

That's even true with some plants that have medicinal or drug properties. Many of which were the forerunners of commercially made drugs.

I mean peyote is natural but it's not good for you.

[petegz28]

Evidence?

I don't think it's snake oil. As I was saying about the milk...I HATE skim milk. It looks and tastes like water that was poured into a glass with milk residue.

Organic non-fat milk is fucking awesome. It is actually white and has some substance and the taste is comparable to regular whole milk. I won't buy anything else now but organic milk. Same goes for just about all my produce and meat. The meat I get from whole foods, from seafood to poultry to bison to beef, pork, you name it, all has better flavor and looks better. Does it cost more? Yes.

[Stewie]

Hardly....

I will ask you for a link showing where these things are actually being used?

A link? You're kidding, right?

[mlyonsd]

News Flash.....We're all going to eventually die.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[petegz28]

A link? You're kidding, right?

nope...just playing the link play....

[BucEyedPea]

I don't think it's snake oil. As I was saying about the milk...I HATE skim milk. It looks and tastes like water that was poured into a glass with milk residue.

Organic non-fat milk is ****ing awesome. It is actually white and has some substance and the taste is comparable to regular whole milk. I won't buy anything else now but organic milk. Same goes for just about all my produce and meat. The meat I get from whole foods, from seafood to poultry to bison to beef, pork, you name it, all has better flavor and looks better. Does it cost more? Yes.

I believe in consuming some of the fat if only because it helps one absorb the Vitamin A and D which are fat soluble. Either that or eat a piece of cheese or some peanut butter when you have it. I even believe in having some cream. I will only make my fettucine alfredo or carbonara with organic cream. It's such a difference. I also believe some saturated fat is good for you. It's just the source of it that's a problem.

Seafood I have no problem buying at the supermarket but the wild is better for you than the farm raised. But grass fed beef I can't stand the taste of but I will eat sometimes just for the lauric acid in it.

[petegz28]

News Flash.....We're all going to eventually die.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Yea, but I don't need to feel like shit on the way to my death, do I?

Beisdes the toxicity issues, it seems that infertility issues and such are on the rise as we pump our foods full of more and more stuff.

The US is far from the highest country for life expectancy. And it is from eating a bunch of processed junk full of BST or BGH or whatever it is, synthetic food additives, antibiotics, irraditation and all that, among other lifestyle issues

[BucEyedPea]

News Flash.....We're all going to eventually die.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

So.

It's about the quality of life: more energy, aging better, looking younger, feeling younger and putting off degenerative diseases longer. I don't want to spend my 40's and 50's paying out to Big Pharma and Big Medical.

It tastes better too.

Besides I'm vain.

[BucEyedPea]

Yea, but I don't need to feel like shit on the way to my death, do I?

Beisdes the toxicity issues, it seems that infertility issues and such are on the rise as we pump our foods full of more and more stuff.

The US is far from the highest country for life expectancy. And it is from eating a bunch of processed junk full of BST or BGH or whatever it is, synthetic food additives, antibiotics, irraditation and all that, among other lifestyle issues

I absolutely agree, not to mention the amount of obesity including in kids ( which is not prevalent in Europe) , more kids being diagnosed with food allergies, other allergies and diabetes. More adult onset diabetes at younger ages. This is so unecessary. Plus you're hungrier and tend to eat more if not nutritionally fed well.

Gotta mention the high fructose corn syrup that's in everything and which is worse than sugar and all the white flour and white rice out there.

[Stewie]

nope...just playing the link play....

Sorry, no link. It's from a pay site that I belong to. It's at least a five year old study. Google it.

[mlyonsd]

Yea, but I don't need to feel like shit on the way to my death, do I?

Beisdes the toxicity issues, it seems that infertility issues and such are on the rise as we pump our foods full of more and more stuff.

The US is far from the highest country for life expectancy. And it is from eating a bunch of processed junk full of BST or BGH or whatever it is, synthetic food additives, antibiotics, irraditation and all that, among other lifestyle issues

My point was/is you should do what makes you feel good.

I don't have an opinion either way on this subject because I see it as people eating organic food do it as a choice. Same for those that don't.

I'm standing in my shop smoking a cigar (bad) drinking a whiskey (bad). And I could care less what other people think about it.

Now if the government were to step in and enforce totally organic grown food that would make me go ape shit. Me, I'll buy whatever is cheapest.

[BucEyedPea]

I could tell you by looking at bananas picked at the same time...organics are smaller and taste sweeter. It is very obvious.

Yeah they are and they are sweeter in my experience too. They don't always look as pretty as the commercial stuff though.

[Stewie]

I don't think it's snake oil. As I was saying about the milk...I HATE skim milk. It looks and tastes like water that was poured into a glass with milk residue.

Organic non-fat milk is ****ing awesome. It is actually white and has some substance and the taste is comparable to regular whole milk. I won't buy anything else now but organic milk. Same goes for just about all my produce and meat. The meat I get from whole foods, from seafood to poultry to bison to beef, pork, you name it, all has better flavor and looks better. Does it cost more? Yes.

Man, they have you suckered. It's their plan.

[BucEyedPea]

I'm standing in my shop smoking a cigar (bad) drinking a whiskey (bad). And I could care less what other people think about it.
Whisky is made from barely which is good for you. Fermented food is also good for the gut. There's organic alcohol made too. Thing is some alcohol is healthy for you. Also, grape seed extract is in red wine which is thought to be the reason why the french whose diet is cream and butter based largely don't have the same heart disease issues we have in America. Red wine has health benefits that can offet other things in one's diet.

It's also be discovered now that coffee, a fruit has antioxidants in it that are good for us. Same with black tea and green tea even more. They're natural products that have benefits. Heck, even chocolate is a fruit.

Now if the government were to step in and enforce totally organic grown food that would make me go ape shit. Me, I'll buy whatever is cheapest.


I don't think anyone is recommending that. Not so long as we can have different kinds of supermarkets out there.

[BucEyedPea]

Man, they have you suckered. It's their plan.

Who's suckering who though? You could be just a suckered too. They all advertise and promote their goods. Nothing wrong with that. I think it's really a price point for those who diss organics.

Now, do you drink water out of plastic bottles? Or use any aluminum when cooking? I won't go near aluminum pans or foil. No way.

[BucEyedPea]

Yum! I just finished cooking and eating chicken in a cream and Dijon sauce with tarragon and a touch of white wine with garlic, shallots and some mushrooms. Was it gooooooooood! Cooked in a stainless steel pan.

[Stewie]

Who's suckering who though? You could be just a suckered too. They all advertise and promote their goods. Nothing wrong with that. I think it's really a price point for those who diss organics.

Now, do you drink water out of plastic bottles? Or use any aluminum when cooking?

I have a KDF filter, so no, I only drink water out of glasses. Aluminum? It's probably not bad, but my pans are non-stick ceramic.

Organic is a marketing tool. The insecticides/pesticides/herbicides that are approved for organic farming are poisons just like every other poison they don't allow.

[BucEyedPea]

I have a KDF filter, so no, I only drink water out of glasses. Aluminum? It's probably not bad, but my pans are non-stick ceramic.

Organic is a marketing tool. The insecticides/pesticides/herbicides that are approved for organic farming are poisons just like every other poison they don't allow.

What's kdf? And is that ceramic coated with teflon because that's toxic too.

Organic is grown on richer soil, is more nutrient dense as a fact. So it's an opinion as to it being a marketing tool.

[Stewie]

Yum! I just finished cooking and eating chicken in a cream and Dijon sauce with tarragon and a touch of white wine with garlic and shallots. Was it gooooooooood!
Cooked in a stainless steel pan.

I always heard that dinner in FLA starts early. You're in Florida, right?

[BucEyedPea]

I always heard that dinner in FLA starts early. You're in Florida, right?

Yes I am. But I normally don't eat this early. My kid wanted to go hang out downtown and didn't want to wait. I ate at 4:30PM today. Besides, I am teaching her how to cook. Starting with French cooking since it's the basis of a lot of fine cooking. So I insisted she be here. It was my compromise.

I normally eat around 6 - 6:15PM. I never heard of Florida eating early...but the restaurants do have "early bird specials."

[Stewie]

What's kdf? And is that ceramic coated with teflon because that's toxic too.

Organic is grown on richer soil, is more nutrient dense as a fact. So it's an opinion as to it being a marketing tool.

Nope, it's nano-ceramic non-stick.

Here's a link of kdf filters.

http://www.home-water-purifiers-and-filters.com/kdf-filter.php

Soil type doesn't define organic.

[BucEyedPea]

Soil type doesn't define organic.

It may not be part of the definition but that's another of it's benefits. Food is only as enriched as the soil it's grown on.
That's the reason it has higher mineral content. I realize the links below are from the industry. But Dr. Mercola's ( he's an osetopath) Wellness Institute pushes them as does my chiropractor who is trained in nutrition.

Scientists Agree That Organic Farming Delivers Healthier, Richer Soil and Nutritionally Enhanced Food
http://www.npicenter.com/anm/templates/newsOTemp.aspx?articleid=23400&zoneid=218

Organic Farming delivers healthier, richer soil and nutritionally enhanced food
http://www.organic-market.info/web/News_in_brief/Research/Organic_Farming/176/193/0/5256.html

As far as I know, and I am basing this on recall right now, this is a reason why food tastes better or has more flavor in Europe. Their soil is better. Europeans complain about our food being bland and lacking taste. At least the one's I've met.

[Stewie]

Yes I am. But I normally don't eat this early. My kid wanted to go hang out downtown and didn't want to wait. I ate at 4:30PM today. Besides, I am teaching her how to cook. Starting with French cooking since it's the basis of a lot of fine cooking. So I insisted she be here. It was my compromise.

I normally eat around 6 - 6:15PM. I never heard of Florida eating early...but the restaurants do have "early bird specials."

Teaching kids to cook is a great avenue for interaction and they'll learn more than they'll ever know... until later in life.

[BucEyedPea]

Teaching kids to cook is a great avenue for interaction and they'll learn more than they'll ever know... until later in life.

She loves it. She really wants to be a good cook. She loves nutrition too.

[Stewie]

It may not be part of the definition but that's another of it's benefits. Food is only as enriched as the soil it's grown on.
That's the reason it has higher mineral content. I realize the links below are from the industry. But Dr. Mercola's ( he's an osetopath) Wellness Institute pushes them as does my chiropractor who is trained in nutrition.

Scientists Agree That Organic Farming Delivers Healthier, Richer Soil and Nutritionally Enhanced Food
http://www.npicenter.com/anm/templates/newsOTemp.aspx?articleid=23400&zoneid=218

Organic Farming delivers healthier, richer soil and nutritionally enhanced food
http://www.organic-market.info/web/News_in_brief/Research/Organic_Farming/176/193/0/5256.html

As far as I know, and I am basing this on recall right now, this is a reason why food tastes better or has more flavor in Europe. Their soil is better. Europeans complain about our food being bland and lacking taste. At least the one's I've met.

I don't disagree with anything you posted here. Clay soil is by far the richest of all soils. It has myriad of nutrients, but needs some nudging from the farmer to make it produce.

[mlyonsd]

Yes I am. But I normally don't eat this early. My kid wanted to go hang out downtown and didn't want to wait. I ate at 4:30PM today. Besides, I am teaching her how to cook. Starting with French cooking since it's the basis of a lot of fine cooking. So I insisted she be here. It was my compromise.

I normally eat around 6 - 6:15PM. I never heard of Florida eating early...but the restaurants do have "early bird specials."

Odds are 50-50 you'll be face down in a bag of Cheetos by 8:30. :D

[BucEyedPea]

Odds are 50-50 you'll be face down in a bag of Cheetos by 8:30. :D

Nope I hate Cheetos. I rarely eat that kind of snack anyhow. My weakness is Cape Cod chips but I only buy on special occassions.

[Stewie]

It may not be part of the definition but that's another of it's benefits. Food is only as enriched as the soil it's grown on.

Ay, there's the rub. I missed this earlier. The ABSOLUTE and CRITICAL part of growing food is pH of the soil. A gardener can dump Miracle Grow, etc., and expect results. The pH of soil will allow those nutrients to be available. Yeah, I'm from Kansas, I know these nerdy things.

[mlyonsd]

Nope I hate Cheetos. I rarely eat that kind of snack anyhow. My weakness is Cape Cod chips but I only buy on special occassions.

I was of course kidding. You sound like a passionate cook that is artistic in the kitchen. Kudos to you.

[kcfanXIII]

Oh sure everybody grow their own food year-round.:rolleyes: Do you even grasp the practical impossibility of something like that happening?

I don't of any GMO farmers bashing organics. I'm sure it's there, but gather it's in response to the organic farmers bashing GMOs.

oh no, the thought of personal responsibility. if communities worked together, its very possible. the reason corperate farming is needed, is because its done on a mass scale, trying to take care of everyone. i'm sure everyone growing all their own food is a difficult task, but everyone growing at least some of it would eliminate the need for companies like monsanto to exist. that is why they release articles like this one, that bash organic food. and yes its propaganda, because it leaves out information that is detremental to gmo foods. the chemicals used on a mass scale, and the potential long term effects caused by their genetic tampering were not looked at, which is the main concern of most anti gmo people. then they come out and say something like "there is no benefit to eating organic" without a real study being done. most of the public will believe whatever they are spoon fed on the evening news, and not look deeper into the issue.this is propaganda in its truest form.

[BucEyedPea]

I was of course kidding. You sound like a passionate cook that is artistic in the kitchen. Kudos to you.

Oh well, it's hard to tell or the net. A lot of artists like to cook. I really enjoy it if I don't have too much going on workwise.

[Stewie]

BEP, clear your box. I sent you something and it was blocked. :)

[mlyonsd]

Oh well, it's hard to tell or the net. A lot of artists like to cook. I really enjoy it if I don't have too much going on workwise.
FTR my cajun chicken linguine would kick your bland cream chicken with tarragon's ass.

[BucEyedPea]

FTR my cajun chicken linguine would kick your bland cream chicken with tarragon's ass.

LMAO It's not bland when you add the Dijon, garlic and shallots though. Maybe compared to spicy cajun.
I can cook various ethnic dishes though. But that sounds good too.
I'm really just gettin' into the French. So much cream and butter. I've always loved creamy dishes though. Comfort food.
I am just surprised how much it is the basis for so much other cooking. Including all the food in magazines and on network tv shows. It's got a lot of the basics. And a lot of the terminology comes from them. Truly their contribution to the world. Besides sex.

[petegz28]

Man, they have you suckered. It's their plan.

If you think there is no difference between organic and non-organic milk, you are smoking crack. There is a HUGE difference.

[KILLER_CLOWN]

If you think there is no difference between organic and non-organic milk, you are smoking crack. There is a HUGE difference.

homogenization and pasteurization destroy most of the nutrients in normal milk. How was the cow raised, what was it's diet and was it injected with hormones. I would say a major difference.

[steelyeyed57]

As explained to me at an American Society of Farm Manager's and Rural Appraiser's convention by a guy who was helping folks establish organic farming in Florida, organic foods will continue to increase in costs because farming without herbicide or insecticide is still unsustainable beyond 3-4 growing seasons. This guys company had started 4 different operations in Florida, all of the fields with more than 3 crop seasons had become over-run with weeds and insects and basically had to be re-started. He was banking on some relaxing of the organic standards or new technological breakthroughs, but he was very frustrated and expecting a great inflation of costs in the organic market in the next few years.

The richer soils argument is bunk as well, as anecdotal evidence in my area suggest. The organic farmers in our area have a very representative portion of the land from highly productive soils to poor quality ground. Their inability to add typical fertilizer has caused the soils to be depleted more quickly and thus some have been forced to put on cover crops during some seasons.

I think its a great idea, but the problem is we have a lot to learn about how to make this kind of production sustainable. As it stands, organic farmers are running into trouble that will only continue until we figure out how to keep these operations consistently productive.

[BucEyedPea]

Sounds like a huge overstatement and generality. The soil is richer because they use compost and better soil management. Conventional farming soil has a lot of depleted soil.

My understanding is that properly treated and maintained with good compost no pesticides are supposed to be necessary.

Florida is extremely weedy. I have trouble all the time with my grass, shrubs and overall.

[steelyeyed57]

The problem with the use compost of course is that it isn't consistent and as of yet, not very cost effective. Thus you have varying degrees of fertility and an inconsistent crop and it takes a lot of time to get down. Soil management in the organic community, as told to me by this gentlemen is still leaving a lot to be desired over 4-5 growing seasons.
As far as Florida being weedy, organic farms that I'm aware of are running into the same issues here in Iowa. The composting and "soap" style pesticides have proved to be problematic as an operation hits its 3rd to fourth or sometimes 5th growing season.

Insecticides and herbicides in conventional farming have been developed over the past 60 years. I think given some years and R&D, they can develop some sustainable methods, if the organic market survives what looks to be an inflationary time.

[steelyeyed57]

As I said, I am using anecdotal evidence in our area, the soils have become depleted enough that the ground has had to go fallow for a season to be sustainable.
Whehter its an over-statement or too general, I don't profess to know, I was just passing along what is going on here.

[BigChiefFan]

Damn, our country has just become zombies since 9-11, myself included. I honestly believed voting in someone who opposed Bush's policies, was a good course of action and would help correct some of the mistakes. Sadly, we're still walking down Primrose Path.