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dirk digler
07-31-2009, 12:02 PM
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aLXFqcpg77cw

U.S. Economy: Contraction Slows as ‘Sluggish’ Recovery Beckons

By Shobhana Chandra

July 31 (Bloomberg) -- The worst U.S. economic slump since the Great Depression abated in the second quarter as government spending programs started to kick in, while the deepest retrenchment by consumers since 1980 augured a muted recovery.

Gross domestic product shrank at a better-than-forecast 1 percent annual pace after a 6.4 percent drop the prior three months, Commerce Department figures showed today in Washington. A survey of purchasing managers showed separately that business contracted less than estimated this month.

Stabilization in homebuilding and the liquidation of unsold goods sets the stage for gains in GDP starting this quarter, analysts said. At the same time, rising unemployment and weakening income growth threaten to erode household finances; the International Monetary Fund today said policy makers must be ready to employ further stimulus if needed.

“We’re heading to a sluggish recovery,” said Nigel Gault (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Nigel+Gault&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1), chief U.S. economist at IHS Global Insight in Lexington, Massachusetts. “We’ll get more support from government programs in the second half, but if you want a strong recovery you need a strong consumer, and we are not seeing that.”

Stocks fluctuated between gains and losses, Treasuries gained and the dollar remained lower against the euro after the report. The Standard & Poor’s 500 Stock Index was up 0.2 percent at 988.38 at 10:37 a.m. in New York. Benchmark 10-year note yields fell to 3.56 percent, from 3.61 percent late yesterday, and the dollar dropped 0.7 percent to $1.4166 per euro.

Economists’ Forecasts

The economy was forecast to shrink at a 1.5 percent pace, according to the median estimate of 78 economists surveyed by Bloomberg News.

Government spending rose at a 5.6 percent pace last quarter, the most since 2003, as President Barack Obama (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Barack+Obama&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1)’s $787 billion stimulus program began to take effect. The funds are aimed at helping states retain workers, financing infrastructure projects and reducing tax payments.

Profits reported for the second quarter by companies from Caterpillar Inc. (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=CAT%3AUS) to Dow Chemical Co. (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=DOW%3AUS) have reinforced signs the slump is coming to an end. The Commerce Department’s figures today, which included benchmark revisions to past years, showed that GDP has tumbled 3.9 percent since the second quarter of last year -- the biggest drop since quarterly records began in 1947. GDP has fallen four straight quarters, the longest ever.

Worst Since 1980

Consumer spending, which accounts for about 70 percent of the economy, fell at a 1.2 percent pace following a 0.6 percent increase in the prior quarter. It was forecast to drop 0.5 percent, according to the survey median. Purchases slid 2 percent since the peak at the end of 2007 -- the most since a 2.4 percent decline in the 1980 recession.

“It’s important to put it in perspective,” Christina Romer (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Christina%0ARomer&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1), who chairs the White House Council of Economic Advisers, said in a Bloomberg Television interview. “We are seeing some sign the consumer is stabilizing and, of course, the tax cut that was included in the recovery act I think is going to help consumers feel more confident.”

The IMF, in an annual review of the U.S. economic outlook, today said it anticipates a “gradual” recovery.

“If downside risks materialize, additional credit easing and a strengthened commitment to maintaining a highly accommodative monetary stance could be considered,” the IMF’s board said in a statement.

Compensation Weakens

The Labor Department reported separately today that employment costs -- a measure that includes wages, salaries and benefits -- rose 1.8 percent in the second quarter from a year before, the smallest gain in figures dating to 1982.

GDP contracted a revised 1.9 percent in the fourth quarter of 2008 from the same time the prior year, compared with the 0.8 percent drop previously on the books.

The GDP report is the first for the quarter and will be revised in August and September as more information becomes available.

The economy has lost 6.5 million jobs since the recession began in December 2007, and economists surveyed by Bloomberg this month forecast the jobless rate (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=USURTOT%3AIND) will exceed 10 percent by early 2010.

“The United States economy has found bottom but will be slow in recovering as unemployment continues to be a drag on consumer spending,” Andrew Liveris (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Andrew+Liveris&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1), chief executive officer of Midland, Michigan-based Dow, said in a statement yesterday.

Second-quarter profit at Dow and at Peoria, Illinois-based Caterpillar, topped analysts’ estimates. Caterpillar, the world’s largest maker of construction equipment, said last week that stimulus programs in countries such as China were helping stabilize sales.

Trade Deficit

The trade gap shrank last quarter, preventing a steeper decline. The gap between exports and imports fell to $339.3 billion at an annual pace from $386.5 billion.

Inventories dropped at a record $141.1 billion annual pace, after a $113.9 billion decline.

Leaner stockpiles set the stage for recovery in production.

“With inventory levels in an ultra-lean state, businesses should start adding inventories in the second half of the year as the economy begins to show signs of life,” said Ellen Zentner (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Ellen%0AZentner&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1), senior economist at Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ Ltd.

Reflecting that outlook, the Institute for Supply Management-Chicago Inc. today said its business barometer increased to 43.4, the highest level since September, from 39.9 in June. Readings below 50 signal a contraction.

Auto Rebound

General Motors Co. and Chrysler Group LLC, both out of bankruptcy, are among firms set to ramp up production as government efforts lift demand.
The “cash-for-clunkers” trade-in program begun this month has spurred 16,351 new-vehicle sales so far, the Transportation Department said on July 29. The plan, which set aside $1 billion, ran through the money six days after it began, a sign of its success, Senator Debbie Stabenow (http://search.bloomberg.com/search?q=Debbie+Stabenow&site=wnews&client=wnews&proxystylesheet=wnews&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&filter=p&getfields=wnnis&sort=date:D:S:d1) said yesterday. Lawmakers had expected the program to generate about 250,000 vehicle sales and to have enough money to last to about Nov. 1.
Today’s GDP report showed the slump in business investment slowed last quarter, while residential construction kept plummeting.

Recent reports showed the housing slump, which helped trigger the financial crisis, and the decline in manufacturing have eased. Housing starts rose in June and industrial production shrank at the slowest pace in eight months, according to government reports this month.

The Federal Reserve’s preferred inflation gauge rose at a 2 percent annual pace last quarter, less than forecast. The measure, which is tied to consumer spending and strips out food and energy costs, rose at a 1.1 percent annual pace the prior quarter.

Economists project the economy will grow at an average 1.5 percent pace from July to December, according to a Bloomberg survey taken in early July.

Donger
07-31-2009, 12:04 PM
Government spending saved us? That's going to be the pitch?

dirk digler
07-31-2009, 12:05 PM
Government spending saved us? That's going to be the pitch?

It is Bloomberg not some liberal rag

The one downside still is consumer spending which went down

petegz28
07-31-2009, 12:06 PM
It is Bloomberg not some liberal rag

The one downside still is consumer spending which went down

That's cause jobs are down

KC native
07-31-2009, 12:07 PM
Easing but this is more of a technical bounce in GDP.


Falling Imports versus Falling Exports (GDP = -2.38%)
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By Barry Ritholtz - July 31st, 2009, 11:15AM

I noted earlier that the oddity of imports versus exports calculation would produce a positive contribution to GDP. Let’s look at the details of this, and find a way to understand what this means.

First, off conceptualize the difference between what imports and exports are. At the most basic level, Imports represent our consumption of overseas production, i.e., We buy what they make.

Exports are where overseas consumers purchase our production, i.e., They buy what we make.

What were the specifics of the GDP data regarding import/export?

-Real imports of goods and services decreased 15.1%

-Real exports of goods and services decreased 7.0%

So in Q2, both consumption by us of overseas goods and services and by them of US made goods and serivces declined significantly.

The Differential between imports and exports — who dropped fastest — was the key to this quarter’s GDP data.

According to Bloomberg, Decreasing Exports subtracted 0.76% from GDP. At the same time, falling Imports added 2.14%. Net contribution of the fact that Imports are free falling twice as fast as Exports are = 1.38%.

If they were both falling at the same rate — if Europe and Asia’s consumers were hurting as much as ours – GDP would have been -2.38%.

If it seems weird to you that the ratio of domestic and overseas shrinking economies and their reduced consumption somehow turned into a positive GDP contributor, well, welcome to the wonderful world of government statistics.
PERMALINK | COMMENTS (8)

dirk digler
07-31-2009, 12:08 PM
That's cause jobs are down

Definitely got to get more people back to working again. Hopefully that will happen sooner than later.

wild1
07-31-2009, 12:11 PM
One way to spin it is that "the recession may be easing". Another would be to point out that the economy continues to shrink, continues to shed jobs, and is still in the longest stretch of doing so since the numbers were calculated the way they are now, apparently failing to take heed of all the spending, hope, and change.

KC native
07-31-2009, 12:14 PM
One way to spin it is that "the recession may be easing". Another would be to point out that the economy continues to shrink, continues to shed jobs, and is still in the longest stretch of doing so since the numbers were calculated the way they are now, apparently failing to take heed of all the spending, hope, and change.

It's not spin. In the previous quarter the economy was contracting at about a 6% annualized rate. It is now contracting at half that.

dirk digler
07-31-2009, 12:21 PM
One way to spin it is that "the recession may be easing". Another would be to point out that the economy continues to shrink, continues to shed jobs, and is still in the longest stretch of doing so since the numbers were calculated the way they are now, apparently failing to take heed of all the spending, hope, and change.

There is definitely some negatives still out there but there is more and more positive news coming out about the economy and economists are thinking the worst is over.

stevieray
07-31-2009, 12:30 PM
There is definitely some negatives still out there but there is more and more positive news coming out about the economy and economists are thinking the worst is over.
The worst recession since the great depression and it's fixed in a short time on money we haven't earned yet, in a service based economy??

Convince me the non profit you work for isn't under the Acorn/Americorp/SEIU umbrella.

dirk digler
07-31-2009, 12:37 PM
The worst recession since the great depression and it's fixed in a short time on money we haven't earned yet, in a service based economy??

Convince me the non profit you work for isn't under the Acorn/Americorp/SEIU umbrella.

Housing numbers improved, alot of business numbers have improved, and GDP only shrunk by 1% compared to 6% last quarter. We still have a ways to go but these are positive things and people should be happy. The most important thing we need to do is get people back to work.

And no I don't work for any of those non profits.

wild1
07-31-2009, 12:37 PM
The worst recession since the great depression and it's fixed in a short time on money we haven't earned yet,

Or which, in most cases, has not even gone out yet.

KC Dan
07-31-2009, 12:47 PM
Housing numbers improved, alot of business numbers have improved, and GDP only shrunk by 1% compared to 6% last quarter. We still have a ways to go but these are positive things and people should be happy. The most important thing we need to do is get people back to work..
Agreed but Layoffs continue, Company Investment capital still sitting in house, less internal overhead costs=better profits since sales revenue down in most companies and productivity higher (less workers working harder), and most importantly consumers are NOT buying crazily anymore. I personally think this is a good thing.
Businesses and the economy in general has and will continue to contract some more to a new, more sustainable level of production and employment. This will most likely be a jobless recovery and while I think gov't money going out the door is somewhat helpful; the stimulus bill has little effect. Less than 10% has been put out. It just isn't truthful to state that hardly any money has been put out and that little money has everything to do with the coming recovery. This recovery will come regardless especially when the money hasn't been injected in any stilulative way.
Ask Oregon out of workers...It's been all over the news here that the "stimulus" created about ~3000 jobs but the average length of the jobs have been 35 hours and then the people laid off again. The "stimulus" is a joke. I need to check on it but I wonder if they can reclaim unemployment again and restart the benefits clock. If so, I may finally understand what this plan was really meant to do...I hope not though...

stevieray
07-31-2009, 01:00 PM
The most important thing we need to do is get people back to work.



this is the true sign of recovery IMO

...and it's not happening.

The last client I worked for is a recruiter for a company that employed over 1k people...current workforce ...three hundred...:shake: two thirds lost their jobs in a liitle over six months

dirk digler
07-31-2009, 01:32 PM
Agreed but Layoffs continue, Company Investment capital still sitting in house, less internal overhead costs=better profits since sales revenue down in most companies and productivity higher (less workers working harder), and most importantly consumers are NOT buying crazily anymore. I personally think this is a good thing.
Businesses and the economy in general has and will continue to contract some more to a new, more sustainable level of production and employment. This will most likely be a jobless recovery and while I think gov't money going out the door is somewhat helpful; the stimulus bill has little effect. Less than 10% has been put out. It just isn't truthful to state that hardly any money has been put out and that little money has everything to do with the coming recovery. This recovery will come regardless especially when the money hasn't been injected in any stilulative way.
Ask Oregon out of workers...It's been all over the news here that the "stimulus" created about ~3000 jobs but the average length of the jobs have been 35 hours and then the people laid off again. The "stimulus" is a joke. I need to check on it but I wonder if they can reclaim unemployment again and restart the benefits clock. If so, I may finally understand what this plan was really meant to do...I hope not though...

this is the true sign of recovery IMO

...and it's not happening.

The last client I worked for is a recruiter for a company that employed over 1k people...current workforce ...three hundred...:shake: two thirds lost their jobs in a liitle over six months

We definitely have a ways to go but IIRC aren't jobs the last part of a recovery? So maybe we will see an down turn in unemployment soon at least I hope so because people are hurting out there without jobs.

mlyonsd
07-31-2009, 01:35 PM
Government spending saved us? That's going to be the pitch?

Absolutely.

VAChief
07-31-2009, 02:15 PM
this is the true sign of recovery IMO

...and it's not happening.

The last client I worked for is a recruiter for a company that employed over 1k people...current workforce ...three hundred...:shake: two thirds lost their jobs in a liitle over six months

I think it certainly is the one of the strongest indicators for sure, I'm generally an optimist, but I don't think we are going to see improvement there very quickly, we have been ripe for this for a long time. We needed to make changes back even during the Clinton days.

KC Dan
07-31-2009, 02:35 PM
We definitely have a ways to go but IIRC aren't jobs the last part of a recovery? So maybe we will see an down turn in unemployment soon at least I hope so because people are hurting out there without jobs.We should as businesses are either finding their manning bottom or are going out of business. Employment is always lagging however I think that this time, it will be really lagging.

KC Dan
07-31-2009, 02:36 PM
I think it certainly is the one of the strongest indicators for sure, I'm generally an optimist, but I don't think we are going to see improvement there very quickly, we have been ripe for this for a long time. We needed to make changes back even during the Clinton days.Yep - Irrational Exhuberence

Calcountry
07-31-2009, 02:55 PM
Definitely got to get more people back to working again. Hopefully that will happen sooner than later.That will never happen with Obama's confiscatory policies in place.

Calcountry
07-31-2009, 02:57 PM
In other news, the Russians reached a deal with Cuba to drill for oil off the coast of Cuba.

Nice to see them greenies are having an affect.

Rain Man
07-31-2009, 04:39 PM
this is the true sign of recovery IMO

...and it's not happening.

The last client I worked for is a recruiter for a company that employed over 1k people...current workforce ...three hundred...:shake: two thirds lost their jobs in a liitle over six months


Did they hire you to paint pictures of people on the empty chairs?



The jobs thing is really tough. We had a job opening recently and had to shut down the ad because we got over 200 applicants in the first three days or so. I feel bad for folks looking for jobs right now.

stevieray
07-31-2009, 06:49 PM
Did they hire you to paint pictures of people on the empty chairs?



The jobs thing is really tough. We had a job opening recently and had to shut down the ad because we got over 200 applicants in the first three days or so. I feel bad for folks looking for jobs right now.

Actually, it was three month gig totally remodeling the first level of 100 year old home in Brookside.

About four months ago, I found a guy looking for help painting...same thing over 200 people replied within two dys...needless to say, he decided to do it himself.

BucEyedPea
07-31-2009, 07:02 PM
I wonder how much the Plunge Protection Team is doing for the stock market? LMAO

RINGLEADER
07-31-2009, 08:13 PM
It is Bloomberg not some liberal rag

The one downside still is consumer spending which went down

It's endemic of what's happening in the markets as well. Companies are reporting profits by slashing costs -- not because people are actually buying more of their products.

The government is still less effective than the private sector at using money to achieve growth. If Obama is going to say he's "saved" jobs without any proof I'm going to continue to contend that we'd have more jobs if those hundreds of billions had gone directly to the businesses and consumers.

The consumer response to the clunkers deal is indicative of the kind of positive response you can get when you INCENTIVIZE people to do what you want rather than punishing them to achieve those goals through punitive taxation (i.e. Obama cap-and-trade, Obama health care, etc.).

Just my opinion of course, though there is historical evidence to support this POV.

mlyonsd
07-31-2009, 08:26 PM
It's endemic of what's happening in the markets as well. Companies are reporting profits by slashing costs -- not because people are actually buying more of their products.

The government is still less effective than the private sector at using money to achieve growth. If Obama is going to say he's "saved" jobs without any proof I'm going to continue to contend that we'd have more jobs if those hundreds of billions had gone directly to the businesses and consumers.

The consumer response to the clunkers deal is indicative of the kind of positive response you can get when you INCENTIVIZE people to do what you want rather than punishing them to achieve those goals through punitive taxation (i.e. Obama cap-and-trade, Obama health care, etc.).

Just my opinion of course, though there is historical evidence to support this POV.

New Obama tag line.....Have another beer.

Mizzou_8541
08-01-2009, 03:52 AM
Thank God for Obama. Our Saviour!

Pioli Zombie
08-01-2009, 05:09 AM
When a Republican is President and Democrats find the negatives in everything they see they are called "Naysayers" "Doom and Gloom" "Haters of America".
When a Democrat is President the same Republicans who do the same thing call themselves "Patriots".

I've never seen a bigger pack of hypocrites in my effen life.
Yeah, Bllomberg, that filthy liberal rag :)

You guys worst nightmare is the economy booming and America doing great because then Obama will get re-elected.

This is why I can't stand extemists on either side. Everything is about politics. Right down the line the Olbermanns who can't find one thing good do to say about anything a Republican does ever and conservatives, the Fox watchers who will slam on everything, EVERYTHING Obama does because he's a Democrat.

Its just a game its getting boring.
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headsnap
08-01-2009, 06:43 AM
You guys worst nightmare is the economy booming and America doing great because then Obama will get re-elected.



bullshit!!!


I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong. Unfortunately I really don't think that will be the case as most of what coming out of Washington now is a net drag on the economy.


Hey BO, work on getting the economy on track before you try to push through your socialistic bullcrap on us. Ooh, but we can't let a good crisis go to waste...

Stewie
08-01-2009, 07:41 AM
I wonder how much the Plunge Protection Team is doing for the stock market? LMAO

Do you wonder why the Fed won't open their books? I bet dollars to donuts they have all sorts of Dow stocks in their inventory.

Stewie
08-01-2009, 07:56 AM
The rate of the collapsing GDP is slowing for now. The problem is that it continues to fall, looking for a bottom. Industrial output is 68.3%, an all-time low. We're in a depression folks, but no one will say it due to the fear factor. Horrible industrial output and real unemployment pushing 20%, there's no other way to put it.

As for housing, incomes never supported their valuation. Housing numbers will come back at the expense of depressed prices. Selling a home at 50% of its value three years ago is not a sign of an improving economy. Someone is losing their ass in the transaction.

Edit: Four more banks failed yesterday. Bank failures are becoming so common they barely make the news anymore.

KC Dan
08-01-2009, 11:48 AM
The rate of the collapsing GDP is slowing for now. The problem is that it continues to fall, looking for a bottom. Industrial output is 68.3%, an all-time low. We're in a depression folks, but no one will say it due to the fear factor. Horrible industrial output and real unemployment pushing 20%, there's no other way to put it.

As for housing, incomes never supported their valuation. Housing numbers will come back at the expense of depressed prices. Selling a home at 50% of its value three years ago is not a sign of an improving economy. Someone is losing their ass in the transaction.

Edit: Four more banks failed yesterday. Bank failures are becoming so common they barely make the news anymore.No, it's because who is in control of Congress and the White House. The press won't say it even if it is true now. When it wasn't even close to true in October, the press were saying it was either a depression or the worst recession daily (Bush in office and an election to win). Since then we've lost MILLIONS more jobs, added BILLIONS to our national debt and the gov't is subsidizing every thing but the kitchen sink. I'm not saying we are in a depression but we no further away from it now that we were then.

BucEyedPea
08-01-2009, 12:09 PM
Do you wonder why the Fed won't open their books? I bet dollars to donuts they have all sorts of Dow stocks in their inventory.

Ya' know I only heard about that a few months ago due to a banker that posts on another board. It actually was put in under Reagan even! :eek:

Stewie
08-01-2009, 12:14 PM
Ya' know I only heard about that a few months ago due to a banker that posts on another board. It actually was put in under Reagan even! :eek:

Politicians hate information they can't spin, Democrat or Republican. We now get intervention and data massaging.

Stewie
08-01-2009, 12:17 PM
This reminds me of when I was in college (during the cold war) and the joke was, "Is it better to read Pravda knowing it's all lies than the NY Times and assume it's not?"

stevieray
08-01-2009, 12:23 PM
When a Republican is President and Democrats find the negatives in everything they see they are called "Naysayers" "Doom and Gloom" "Haters of America".
When a Democrat is President the same Republicans who do the same thing call themselves "Patriots".

I've never seen a bigger pack of hypocrites in my effen life.
Yeah, Bllomberg, that filthy liberal rag :)

You guys worst nightmare is the economy booming and America doing great because then Obama will get re-elected.

This is why I can't stand extemists on either side. Everything is about politics. Right down the line the Olbermanns who can't find one thing good do to say about anything a Republican does ever and conservatives, the Fox watchers who will slam on everything, EVERYTHING Obama does because he's a Democrat.

Its just a game its getting boring.
Posted via Mobile Device

Spare us the BS.. .both parties suck.

BucEyedPea
08-01-2009, 12:27 PM
It is created and based on the idea that an economy is not the production of wealth but rather its consumption. Consumer demand is the largest share of overall demand so it is alleged that this demand fuels economic growth alone.

It's not reality because it's only final goods and services nothing in the interim count. Govt statisticians solidify this fantasy. The GDP framework does not tell us if there is real wealth expansion as opposed to consumption, is based on national output which does not provide the specific information a business needs and is just an abstraction.

All GDP is needed for is predicting the response of the central bank's monetary policies since it tampers with business. Such monetary pumping does not generate more prosperity, "but rather sets in motion a "stronger GDP" and the consequent menace of the boom-bust cycle—i.e., economic impoverishment." -Frank Shostak, Ph.D and chief economist of M.F. Global.

Mr. Kotter
08-02-2009, 11:06 AM
When a Republican is President and Democrats find the negatives in everything they see they are called "Naysayers" "Doom and Gloom" "Haters of America".
When a Democrat is President the same Republicans who do the same thing call themselves "Patriots".

I've never seen a bigger pack of hypocrites in my effen life.
Yeah, Bllomberg, that filthy liberal rag :)

You guys worst nightmare is the economy booming and America doing great because then Obama will get re-elected.

This is why I can't stand extemists on either side. Everything is about politics. Right down the line the Olbermanns who can't find one thing good do to say about anything a Republican does ever and conservatives, the Fox watchers who will slam on everything, EVERYTHING Obama does because he's a Democrat.

Its just a game its getting boring.
Posted via Mobile Device

Welcome to reality....and adulthood.

:toast:

BucEyedPea
08-02-2009, 11:39 AM
You guys worst nightmare is the economy booming and America doing great because then Obama will get re-elected.
Don't include me in this part. I know he won't create a booming economy because I know one man cannot command a whole economy which is made up of billions of individual players making their own choices about what they need and want to buy. I call this the "Moses Syndrome".

The socialist economies of Europe usually lag behind the American economy which has traditionally been freer and leads the world out of recession. I don't want a slower lagging economy. Socialism partial or full blown never delivers and economic history is full of examples.

If there is any boom it will be temporary, and not unlike the dot.com or real estate both of which were false and elusive and based on speculation and not real production. It will bust again just like the previous ones. Only we may not survive it. Economic law is not alterable by man.

I don't agree with Obamunism or Obama's economics—at all. I agree that the Rs here refuse to see how bad Bush was in this area who was also socialist. As well as the Rs compromising in Congress on healthcare. There's little difference between the parties these days. I am, however, willing to give Obama credit where I feel he deserves it and I feel I have. I did the same with Bush. For instance I defended him winning the 2000 election and I did not blame him entirely on Katrina. I defend Obama on Iran, did on the Pirates and his admitting error in the Gates/Crowley incident.

Other than that, there's not much to defend these days, imo, as I think we have a crisis in leadership. Both sides are pushing an international agenda of democracy creation world-wide coupled with Third Way global socialism.