4500 more reasons to love Obama!

[Dave Lane]

Just bought a nice Jeep Patriot and got in on the clunker money. Hadn't planned on buying a new car but what the heck. Excellent well thought out program with great trickle down potential for the economy. The stimulus from autos is significant and quite real.

Now on with your hating! Sorry for the interruption.

[BucEyedPea]

Where are the other 4,499 reasons?

This is good for you but not for those of us paying for you. So it's a matter or opinion and who benefits. This is why economics shouldn't be politicized.

I don't think it benefits the country as a whole either, which is the president's role. It benefits certain special interests. Meanwhile, the deficit climbs.

But we know who your god is...it is the state and Obama as it's head apostle.

Next...

[redsurfer11]

Don't thank Obama. Thank the future children of Amerika. They'll be the payers.

[TEX]

Where are the other 4,499 reasons?

This is good for you but not for those of us paying for you. So it's a matter or opinion and who benefits. This is why economics shouldn't be politicized.

I don't think it benefits the country as a whole either, which is the president's role. It benefits certain special interests. Meanwhile, the deficit climbs.

But we know who your god is...it is the state and Obama as it's head apostle.

Next...

This

[BucEyedPea]

Don't thank Obama. Thank the future children of Amerika. They'll be the payers.

Meanwhile Dave Lane celebrates his selfishness at other's expense. Or shall I say his theft.

[Brock]

It was good for me too. For those of you bitching about it, hopefully you won't be claiming any deductions on your income tax, after all you don't want anybody else paying your way.

[BucEyedPea]

It was good for me too. For those of you bitching about it, hopefully you won't be claiming any deductions on your income tax, after all you don't want anybody else paying your way.

Grand theft auto made possible by the Democrats.

[Brock]

I get farm subsidies too, that's how evil I am. :evil:

[TEX]

It was good for me too. For those of you bitching about it, hopefully you won't be claiming any deductions on your income tax, after all you don't want anybody else paying your way.

The deductions are there to at least KEEP some of OUR money, because we have already paid for stuff like $4500 for your new car...:shake:

[Brock]

The deductions are there to at least KEEP some of OUR money, because we have already paid for stuff like $4500 for your new car...:shake:

Yeah, keep pretending you're paying anybody else's freight. You must think you're rich or something.

[RedNeckRaider]

Yeah, keep pretending you're paying anybody else's freight. You must think you're rich or something.

Brock I admire you because you have always spoke your mind and do not fall left or right from what I have read. That said the tax payers are stuck paying this and the other programs being put in place.

[redsurfer11]

Meanwhile Dave Lane celebrates his selfishness at other's expense. Or shall I say his theft.

If I was looking for a new car, I would jump at it also. The Government opened a door that allowed them to be ripped off. It's a plan to jump start the Gov's new properties. GM,Crysler and the banks. It has nothing to do with being GREEN. That is the smokescreen, and who pays for it? Our children and grandchildren.:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

[Jenson71]

THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

[Jenson71]

http://www.foodforthepoor.org/help/projects/images/food.jpg

You know why this baby is crying? Dave Lane and Brock.

[redsurfer11]

THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
Don't worry. You're young enough to at least pay $75,000.00 worth of the tab.

[BucEyedPea]

THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

I can't wait 'til you have to pay the bill for your opinions. Or will America default in it's loans like a 3rd world country by then. I think so if you kids are in power.

[LaChapelle]

How many businesses does it take to produce a vehicle? Metals, plastics, nuts, bolts, assembly, transportation, sales, ect. This does more for the economy than unemployment checks.

[BucEyedPea]

How many businesses does it take to produce a vehicle? Metals, plastics, nuts, bolts, assembly, transportation, sales, ect. This does more for the economy than unemployment checks.

How?
How it can it be when this is done by taking money from some ( the productive sector) to give to others? When you subsidize purchases it leans on the productive elements which PREVENTS economic growth. This takes private money out of the hands of production the true generators of economic prosperity.

It's a fallacy that this helps the economy.

[Brock]

Brock I admire you because you have always spoke your mind and do not fall left or right from what I have read. That said the tax payers are stuck paying this and the other programs being put in place.

Tell me you really think if they didn't spend the money on this, they wouldn't have just blown it on some other crap.

[LaChapelle]

Never mind. I should have known better. Head meet brick wall, once, then move on.

[BucEyedPea]

Tell me you really think if they didn't spend the money on this, they wouldn't have just blown it on some other crap.

Well, they would have but that doesn't make it effective or right either.
The solution to this economy is to cut govt spending just as consumers are cutting spending. It's not called a correction for nothing.

[redsurfer11]

How many businesses does it take to produce a vehicle? Metals, plastics, nuts, bolts, assembly, transportation, sales, ect. This does more for the economy than unemployment checks.

I'd list the companies, but I don't have Chinese letters on my keyboard.

[BucEyedPea]

I'd list the companies, but I don't have Chinese letters on my keyboard.

LMAO

[Hydrae]

I have hopes of taking advantage of this opportunity as well. I am certainly amongst those who believe our government is out of control and has gone off the deep end when it comes to spending my money. However, this entire program (with the increase voting on yesterday) is $3 billion while we threw hundreds of billions at the banks. At least this is something tangible that is helping citizens directly, not something being paid to the elite few at the top.

[RedNeckRaider]

Tell me you really think if they didn't spend the money on this, they wouldn't have just blown it on some other crap.

Yes they would have but then again running up the tab on the tax payers is what is being done.

[RedNeckRaider]

I have hopes of taking advantage of this opportunity as well. I am certainly amongst those who believe our government is out of control and has gone off the deep end when it comes to spending my money. However, this entire program (with the increase voting on yesterday) is $3 billion while we threw hundreds of billions at the banks. At least this is something tangible that is helping citizens directly, not something being paid to the elite few at the top.

I have to say I agree with this post

[BucEyedPea]

I have hopes of taking advantage of this opportunity as well. I am certainly amongst those who believe our government is out of control and has gone off the deep end when it comes to spending my money. However, this entire program (with the increase voting on yesterday) is $3 billion while we threw hundreds of billions at the banks. At least this is something tangible that is helping citizens directly, not something being paid to the elite few at the top.

I can understand this, at least. Might as well, get some of your own tax money back, 'eh?
Sad but true. I looked at it but decided I'd rather have less debt than a new car right now.
If the economy double dips with more layoffs I am safer I figure.

[Brock]

I can understand that. Might as well, get some of your own tax money back.
Sad but true. I looked at it but decided I'd rather have less debt than a new car right now.

you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. Out of one side, "grand theft auto", out of the other, "it's your money, go ahead and take it back". Which is it?

[donkhater]

Medicare is incredibly popular with those that use it, but I don't think anyone in their right mind would call it a successful government program. How is this any different?

[BucEyedPea]

you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. Out of one side, "grand theft auto", out of the other, "it's your money, go ahead and take it back". Which is it?

That's because it was you, my darlin' meanie. Heh! Heh!

Seriously, I am just saying I understand his reasoning he used more, not that I condone it. You didn't say it was to get your own money back either.

[Hydrae]

I can understand this, at least. Might as well, get some of your own tax money back, 'eh?
Sad but true. I looked at it but decided I'd rather have less debt than a new car right now.
If the economy double dips with more layoffs I am safer I figure.

I also have the situation where my 2001 Mazda MPV can not pass the emissions test due to a failed catalytic converter which will run me about $1500 to replace (if we get the right one, there are two on this thing) so the timing is great for me. The $4500 is about what I currently owe on the Mazda so I just have to see if I can get someone to sell me a car with my horrible credit. :)

[Brock]

You didn't say it was to get your own money back either.

You needed that pointed out to you?

[BucEyedPea]

I also have the situation where my 2001 Mazda MPV can not pass the emissions test due to a failed catalytic converter which will run me about $1500 to replace (if we get the right one, there are two on this thing) so the timing is great for me. The $4500 is about what I currently owe on the Mazda so I just have to see if I can get someone to sell me a car with my horrible credit. :)

I see. It's just I have two sides on my mouth. I figure I might as well use them. :D

[BucEyedPea]

You needed that pointed out to you?

No. I brought it up on my own. You didn't indicate that was your intention but that they'd just spend it on something else.
Bottom line is others are paying for you, and some of your money is in there too.

I mean, hell, if we go more socialist, I've considered stopping working and going on welfare as payback. :eek:

[Stewie]

And we creep slowly towards bondage. So slow, so slight, as to not notice. "I'll get mine because I need to take advantage of this opportunity." This is not an opportunity, but payment for future conditioning.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage."

[Brock]

If they'd stop taking my money without asking, I'd stop trying to get it back.

[The_Grand_Illusion]

And we creep slowly towards bondage. So slow, so slight, as to not notice. "I'll get mine because I need to take advantage of this opportunity." This is not an opportunity, but payment for future conditioning.

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage."


Exactly!

This is just the appetizer to the main course of fundamentally changing this country.

[BucEyedPea]

If they'd stop taking my money without asking, I'd stop trying to get it back.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I should pos rep you for this. :D

[BucEyedPea]

This is just the appetizer to the main course of fundamentally changing this country.
I don't disagree with that either. Since we'll be gettting poorer then more will get dependent on the govt....and like a narcotic later generations won't be able to break the habit.


Kinda like the later phases of democracy:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from that treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship, usually after approximately 200 years.

Democracies have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from great courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependancy and from dependancy back to bondage."

Alexander Tytler

[Mr. Flopnuts]

I just don't understand how anyone could be upset with people who took advantage of a $4500 subsidy on a car. It's not like the government wrote them a check for 800,000,000,000 dollars.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Congratulations to anyone who got their own little bailout. And anyone who is upset with these people, I hope you've completely stopped doing business with all banks. I mean, they're the real thieves. Put your outrage to good, productive use.

[Stewie]

I just don't understand how anyone could be upset with people who took advantage of a $4500 subsidy on a car. It's not like the government wrote them a check for 800,000,000,000 dollars.

It's the same thing on a smaller scale and wrong in both instances.

[Stewie]

Congratulations to anyone who got their own little bailout. And anyone who is upset with these people, I hope you've completely stopped doing business with all banks. I mean, they're the real thieves. Put your outrage to good, productive use.

I haven't done business with a bank in years. I use a credit union and more people should.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

It's the same thing on a smaller scale and wrong in both instances.

Sure it is. I don't disagree at all. But if you're in the market, and the money is available, are you really going to pay for everyone else to use it because of your moral view on it? I don't blame Brock, and Dave one bit. They're going to pay regardless, why not get in on it? They didn't make the rules.

[Stewie]

Sure it is. I don't disagree at all. But if you're in the market, and the money is available, are you really going to pay for everyone else to use it because of your moral view on it? I don't blame Brock, and Dave one bit. They're going to pay regardless, why not get in on it? They didn't make the rules.

It's government controlling behavior at taxpayer expense. In the long run it won't do the economy or manufacturers much, if any, good.

This has gone through stages to get people to buy cars, it's just this attempt by the government is a flat-out bribe.

We started with:

1) Rebate/Cash back offered by the mfg worked for a while.
2) 0% rates on loans plus rebates worked for a while.

Then:

3) Employee pricing worked for a while.
4) Selling cars below cost to move inventory worked for a while.

Now:

Since 1-4 no longer worked the government steps in and subsidizes buying a car.

I'm curious what's next.

[The_Grand_Illusion]

I don't disagree with that either. Since we'll be gettting poorer then more will get dependent on the govt....and like a narcotic later generations won't be able to break the habit.


Kinda like the later phases of democracy:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from that treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship, usually after approximately 200 years.

Democracies have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from great courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependancy and from dependancy back to bondage."

Alexander Tytler

Indeed, and very sad for our future and future generations if we continue down this path.

[banyon]

How?
How it can it be when this is done by taking money from some ( the productive sector) to give to others? When you subsidize purchases it leans on the productive elements which PREVENTS economic growth. This takes private money out of the hands of production the true generators of economic prosperity.

It's a fallacy that this helps the economy.

This appears to assume that economics is a zero-sum game which is itself a fallacy.

It ignores both the acceleration effect of money and the consumption multplier effect.

[BucEyedPea]

Indeed, and very sad for our future and future generations if we continue down this path.

We've been on it before Obama and even Bush but it's really getting worse. It won't change unless Obama is stopped and there are Rs in congress not really stopping it by crafting a compromise bill which is just another step in that direction.

The spending on this recession is more than the New Deal.

[BucEyedPea]

This appears to assume that economics is a zero-sum game which is itself a fallacy.

It ignores both the acceleration effect of money and the consumption multplier effect.

This is added and inapplicable data. IOW's absolute bull crap.

[wild1]

so instead of 20k you weren't planning on spending you spent 15k you weren't planning on spending?

[BucEyedPea]

so instead of 20k you weren't planning on spending you spent 15k you weren't planning on spending?

Like I said, it gets people into more debt. Just like the Fannie and Freddie fiascos.

[banyon]

This is added and inapplicable data. IOW's absolute bull crap.

Yeah, I agree what you posted was bullcrap. Basically your argument is "Nyuh-huh!"

You unassailable logic just continues to thrive, huh?

[BucEyedPea]

Something for nothing mentality at work here.

Production is the key to prosperity.

[KC Dan]

It's government controlling behavior at taxpayer expense. In the long run it won't do the economy or manufacturers much, if any, good.

This has gone through stages to get people to buy cars, it's just this attempt by the government is a flat-out bribe.
Similar to efforts to con Americans to go in debt to buy houses. Let the market work. What's next? Subsidizing computer sales?

[banyon]

Something for nothing mentality at work here.

Production is the key to prosperity.

Production?

Like the increased demand for parts and vehicles that will require firms to increase output and hire additional workers who will have more income to spend on products themselves.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I already said.

[BucEyedPea]

Real production stems productive out put which makes real consumers basing their own demand for goods— not govt stimulated demand due to incentivizing what purchases should be made forcing money into special areas of the economy. That is not real production. It's artificial and is dependent on funds from taxpayers not from funds from the market ( which is the consumers) This strains the overall market because the taxpayer has less money to make his own choices based on what they need and want as individuals. See above, it was all said before....must have gone over your socialist mind set.

[banyon]

Real production stems from real consumers based on their own demand for goods not govt stimulated demand due to incentivizing what purchases should be made forcing money into special areas of the economy. That is not real production. It's artificial and is dependent on funds from taxpayers not from funds from the market ( which is the consumers) This strains the overall market because the taxpayer has less money to make his own choices based on what they need and want as individuals. See above, it was all said before....must have gone over your socialist mind set.

There's no indication at all that taxpayers have less net money to spend. One gets a rebate, remember?

[stevieray]

I hope no one went on car.gov to get the ball rolling on their purchase.

[Stewie]

There's no indication at all that taxpayers have less net money to spend. One gets a rebate, remember?

Oh, there's plenty of currency. That's the new mantra! We can print $100 bills for 20 cents. Ain't life grand!

[BucEyedPea]

I hope no one went on car.gov to get the ball rolling on their purchase.

If they did they better read the fine print because the govt essentially says if they do the govt owns their computers.

Text of the Privacy Act & Security Statement at cars.gov:

“This application provides access to the DoT CARS system. When logged on to the CARS system, your computer is considered a Federal computer system and is the property of the U.S. Government. Any or all uses of this system and all files on this system may be intercepted, monitored, recorded, copied, audited, inspected, and disclosed to authorized CARS, Dot, and law enforcement personnel, as well as authorized officials of other agencies, both domestic and foreign.”

Sense of property that is communistic.

[KC Dan]

I hope no one went on car.gov to get the ball rolling on their purchase.No, I hope that they all did. They deserve it.

[banyon]

Oh, there's plenty of currency. That's the new mantra! We can print $100 bills for 20 cents. Ain't life grand!

i don't think the Fed had to initiate additional quantitative easing over a $1 billion dollar program, do you?

[Brock]

No, I hope that they all did. They deserve it.

I'll think of you and chuckle as I drive my brand new paid for car.

[Stewie]

i don't think the Fed had to initiate additional quantitative easing over a $1 billion dollar program, do you?

It was $1 billion that was supposed to last for months, not one week. A billion here, a billion there, and soon you have real money.

And you need to understand what QE means. It's a function of the Fed, not the gov't. Government handouts don't fall under QE.

[KC Dan]

I'll think of you and chuckle as I drive my brand new paid for car.and pay the payments, CHEERS!!!

[banyon]

It was $1 billion that was supposed to last for months, not one week. A billion here, a billion there, and soon you have real money.

And you need to understand what QE means. It's a function of the Fed, not the gov't. Government handouts don't fall under QE.

I thought my post said the Fed would be the one to do QE, didn't it?

[Brock]

and pay the payments, CHEERS!!!

Uh yeah, I guess you missed the "paid for" part. I do thank you for the rest of the money though, since it obviously came directly out of your pocket.

[KC Dan]

Uh yeah, I guess you missed the "paid for" part. I do thank you for the rest of the money though, since it obviously came directly out of your pocket.Well then, i did miss that. Congrats on your new car. Since you paid for it in total less our tax dollars, i would bet that you are one of about probably ten from that 27,000+ people that turned in clunkers. That's awesome. If you went into mre debt to turn in an operational car, then I would have to laugh at you. But, you did the right thing I guess.

[Dave Lane]

so instead of 20k you weren't planning on spending you spent 15k you weren't planning on spending?

Actually instead of $20K I wasn't planning on spending I spent $11K and paid cash.

[stevieray]

this benefited people who could afford to pay cash..most can't

me thinks you're just boasting.

[Dave Lane]

Uh yeah, I guess you missed the "paid for" part. I do thank you for the rest of the money though, since it obviously came directly out of your pocket.

It's just like medicare!! I really starting to hate socialized no choice government run health care!! Fuckers need to fend for themselves why do they get a free pass to my wallet!!

[Dave Lane]

this benefited people who could afford to pay cash..most can't

me thinks you're just boasting.

Are you serious? Everyone has at least $20-30k sitting around in the fun kitty jeez!

[Brock]

this benefited people who could afford to pay cash..most can't

me thinks you're just boasting.

It benefitted anyone who wanted or needed a new car. Don't be mad because it worked like it was supposed to.

[stevieray]

It benefitted anyone who wanted or needed a new car. Don't be mad because it worked like it was supposed to.

mad?

ROFL

I could give a shit about a new car. My Cherokkee has 200k and still runs like a top.

[Stewie]

I thought my post said the Fed would be the one to do QE, didn't it?

My point was that this $4500 and QE are completely different.

[Brock]

mad?

ROFL

I could give a shit about a new car. My Cherokkee has 200k and still runs like a top.

Well, you do seem to be a little perturbed because similar cars to your Cherokee, which there are 6 billion of, are headed for the shredder, though I can't imagine why you'd care.

[stevieray]

Well, you do seem to be a little perturbed because similar cars to your Cherokee, which there are 6 billion of, are headed for the shredder, though I can't imagine why you'd care.

what's your point?

[Stewie]

It benefitted anyone who wanted or needed a new car. Don't be mad because it worked like it was supposed to.

At everyone else's expense.

It's becoming apparent that welfare is REALLY popular for those who benefit. Even those people who would claim they'd never take a gov't handout. "They're going to offer it? I'm going to take it!" Yep, it's the "where's my check?... welfare syndrome."

[Brock]

At everyone else's expense.

It's becoming apparent that welfare is REALLY popular for those who benefit. Even those people who would claim they'd never take a gov't handout. "They're going to offer it? I'm going to take it!" Yep, it's the "where's my check?... welfare syndrome."

What do you mean "at everyone else's expense"? I pay taxes, just like anyone else. As far as I'm concerned, the money I got was my money anyway.

[Brock]

what's your point?

My point is when you said this:

maybe to you...most peoples first car is a pile of crap...but it's still a car that can get someone to and from work.


....there didn't seem to be a point to what you were saying.

[L.A.Chieffan]

I can understand this, at least. Might as well, get some of your own tax money back, 'eh?
Sad but true. I looked at it but decided I'd rather have less debt than a new car right now.
If the economy double dips with more layoffs I am safer I figure.

kill yourself

[stevieray]

My point is when you said this:




....there didn't seem to be a point to what you were saying.


...the "clunkers" still hold value to people who can't afford a new car.

So far, all I've seen here is two people with "money" who didn't need the "help" to begin with.


They are destroying the drivetrains to start making certain cars obsolete, where in time we'll be forced to buy from Govt Motors.

[Stewie]

What do you mean "at everyone else's expense"? I pay taxes, just like anyone else. As far as I'm concerned, the money I got was my money anyway.

The field is very narrow for benefiting from this program. You get $4500 and the other 50,000 "at everyone's expense" non-qualifiers pay for it.

I pay taxes, too. Should I get a gov't welfare deal because I pay taxes?

[Brock]

...the "clunkers" still hold value to people who can't afford a new car.

So far, all I've seen here is two people with "money" who didn't need the "help" to begin with.


They are destroying the drivetrains to start making certain cars obsolete, where in time we'll be forced to buy from Govt Motors.

Okay, so now you should understand my point when I said "there are plenty of crappy cars to choose from".

[Brock]

I pay taxes, too. Should I get a gov't welfare deal because I pay taxes?

Well, I'm guessing you take a benefit wherever you can find one, just like everybody else does.

[banyon]

The field is very narrow for benefiting from this program. You get $4500 and the other 50,000 "at everyone's expense" non-qualifiers pay for it.

I pay taxes, too. Should I get a gov't welfare deal because I pay taxes?

What do you mean "the other 50,000" where did you get that number from?

[Hydrae]

...the "clunkers" still hold value to people who can't afford a new car.

So far, all I've seen here is two people with "money" who didn't need the "help" to begin with.


They are destroying the drivetrains to start making certain cars obsolete, where in time we'll be forced to buy from Govt Motors.

If I can get a new car out of this next week I don't know that it would fall into your area of concern. My car needs a couple thousand dollars worth of work to get it to where the emissions idiots will allow it to be driven on the road legally. It runs fine currently but due to the check engine light and the message behind that light, this car is not currently available to drive on the road legally. At least with this program I can trade it in so my payments will be for a car I can drive, not something sitting in my driveway costing me money.

Oh, and I can get a new car with a warrantee instead of one with 108K miles on it. :)

[stevieray]

Okay, so now you should understand my point when I said "there are plenty of crappy cars to choose from".

for now....that's true...what happens when and if they say you can't drive anything older than something made in 84?

[Brock]

for now....that's true...what happens when and if they say you can't drive anything older than something made in 84?

At what point in the future do you see this happening?

[stevieray]

If I can get a new car out of this next week I don't know that it would fall into your area of concern. My car needs a couple thousand dollars worth of work to get it to where the emissions idiots will allow it to be driven on the road legally. It runs fine currently but due to the check engine light and the message behind that light, this car is not currently available to drive on the road legally. At least with this program I can trade it in so my payments will be for a car I can drive, not something sitting in my driveway costing me money.

Oh, and I can get a new car with a warrantee instead of one with 108K miles on it. :)

I'm not saying that you and others can't or won't benefit, but I'd be curious what the breakdown is of buyers.

[stevieray]

At what point in the future do you see this happening?

...at the rate that things are changing... who knows?


...hell, it could be deep in the bowels of the cap and trade bill. Seems it would make sense to eventually nudge(force) people into only being able to purchase cars from the gov't.


ironic this doesn't apply to bikes, which get better mileage and are most cost friendly.

[Dave Lane]

mad?

ROFL

I could give a shit about a new car. My Cherokkee has 200k and still runs like a top.

Renew Renew!!

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[stevieray]

Renew Renew!

:rolleyes:

[RedNeckRaider]

...at the rate that things are changing... who knows?


...hell, it could be deep in the bowels of the cap and trade bill. Seems it would make sense to eventually nudge(force) people into only being able to purchase cars from the gov't.

GM short for Government Motors

[Guru]

Where are the other 4,499 reasons?

This is good for you but not for those of us paying for you. So it's a matter or opinion and who benefits. This is why economics shouldn't be politicized.

I don't think it benefits the country as a whole either, which is the president's role. It benefits certain special interests. Meanwhile, the deficit climbs.

But we know who your god is...it is the state and Obama as it's head apostle.

Next...Though I don't like Obama at all, I really don't care that people that pay into the system take advantage of getting some of their money back. I'm sick of caring anyway. This country is so back asswards it isn't funny anymore. Congress doesn't give a shit about our opinions anyway.

[RedNeckRaider]

Though I don't like Obama at all, I really don't care that people that pay into the system take advantage of getting some of their money back. I'm sick of caring anyway. This country is so back asswards it isn't funny anymore. Congress doesn't give a shit about our opinions anyway.

And has not for years and years no matter what party is leading the charge :shake:

[Guru]

And has not for years and years no matter what party is leading the charge :shake:That was my point.

[Stewie]

What do you mean "the other 50,000" where did you get that number from?

That number was just typed. It was to prove the point that alot of people are paying for few to benefit. It's not just this waste of a program either.

[BucEyedPea]

Though I don't like Obama at all, I really don't care that people that pay into the system take advantage of getting some of their money back. I'm sick of caring anyway. This country is so back asswards it isn't funny anymore. Congress doesn't give a shit about our opinions anyway.

I'm not saying I think it's ideal, it's just what's ya' gonna do when everything has been socialized. Ideally I'm against it. I thought about it and decided I'm better off not more in debt. Plus, I can't rail against this stuff with a straight face. When everything's taken over though, I don't know what'd I do then. I agree this country is all back asswards nowadays and congress no longer reps the people. I've said before it's a coup. A coup via ideas but a coup nevertheless.

[BucEyedPea]

Renew Renew!!


Is that how you found the 4,499 other reasons to love Obama?
If you repeat something often enough it becomes truth right?

[Guru]

I'm not saying I think it's ideal, it's just what's ya' gonna do when everything has been socialized. Ideally I'm against it. I thought about it and decided I'm better off not more in debt. Plus, I can't rail against this stuff with a straight face. When everything's taken over though, I don't know what'd I do then. I agree this country is all back asswards nowadays and congress no longer reps the people. I've said before it's a coup. A coup via ideas but a coup nevertheless.I understand where you are coming from though. I was against this crap as well but people might as well get the money back they can when government puts together foolish plans like this.

[BucEyedPea]

I understand where you are coming from though. I was against this crap as well but people might as well get the money back they can when government puts together foolish plans like this.

That's what incentivizing does to people. Socialism corrupts people, infortunately. I was just saying I understand to one poster, not that I think it's right or sound or the greatest good. But it's really the gov't that creates such hazards. Afterall, there is no sin without temptation.