Could this be Obama's smoking gun or just a...

[sportsshrink]

set up by the Left to make the "birthers" look whacked.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=105764

[whoman69]

Yeah looks real to me.

Are you one of those people that watch the Colbert Report and think he's not making fun of you?

[Saul Good]

Yeah looks real to me.

Are you one of those people that watch the Colbert Report and think he's not making fun of you?

I don't give a damn about this issue one way or another, but I don't see anything that jumps out at me to make me think that it's fake. As good as people are at this type of thing, if it's fake, it will be debunked pretty quickly.

[kstater]

GAME CHANGER!!!

[RINGLEADER]

How do you explain away the contemporaneous reports in Hawaiian newspapers announcing his birth THERE? Were they planted there by Sandy Burger? I just don't see how you make that part up unless there was some motivation by the parent(s) to have him recognized as an American AT THE TIME (assuming he was born elsewhere). Just seems really far-fetched.

[RINGLEADER]

I don't give a damn about this issue one way or another, but I don't see anything that jumps out at me to make me think that it's fake. As good as people are at this type of thing, if it's fake, it will be debunked pretty quickly.

This too...though I think it is fake...

But imagine (which I think is as close as you're going to get to this being real) if it turned out to be real and all the other reports/documents in Hawaii were wrong. I think McCain becomes president and all docs that Obama has signed as president would be voided. Now THAT would be a scene worthy of landing on Time Magazine's cover...lol...

[wild1]

It would be fairly easy to manufacture or photoshop that, but it at least seems to be a credible fake, if it is fake.

So let's connect the dots and assume for the moment the story being forwarded here is correct, that Obama's mother got back to Hawaii after giving birth in Kenya, falsely stated the child was born in Hawaii for the purposes of ensuring he would be an American citizen. How easy would it have been for her to obtain a birth certificate containing the information she desired? Or would one be issued by Hawaii naturally, since he would be a dual citizen? What process would have been in place at that time to give a birth certificate to a child like that?

What I'm thinking is, even if this is true and his mother falsified his birth certificate, how could that ever be proven?


After reading the certificate in the article more closely, I guess Kenya could tell us. It should be in book 44B, on page 5733.

[ILChief]

This too...though I think it is fake...

But imagine (which I think is as close as you're going to get to this being real) if it turned out to be real and all the other reports/documents in Hawaii were wrong. I think McCain becomes president and all docs that Obama has signed as president would be voided. Now THAT would be a scene worthy of landing on Time Magazine's cover...lol...

sorry, no way mccain would be president. biden would be the new president.

[RedNeckRaider]

sorry, no way mccain would be president. biden would be the new president.

How so? a candidate is proven ineligible which would render his status not valid. This would void everything including Biden (who was the running mate of said ineligible candidate) Leaving McCain as the President by way of default. I do not know for sure but it could also lead to Nancy Pelosi being the intern and a rerun ordered with Clinton being the candidate. I see noway Biden would be President

[ILChief]

How so? a candidate is proven ineligible which would render his status not valid. This would void everything including Biden (who was the running mate of said ineligible candidate) Leaving McCain as the President by way of default. I do not know for sure but it could also lead to Nancy Pelosi being the intern and a rerun ordered with Clinton being the candidate. I see noway Biden would be President

well the vast majority of voters said they did not want McCain as pres so you think the fair thing to do is to make him president?

[RedNeckRaider]

well the vast majority of voters said they did not want McCain as pres so you think the fair thing to do is to make him president?

No and vast is a reach....oh yeah I forgot you still buy the one person one vote thing :spock: I said what I thought would happen and also said I do not know for sure. And really what difference would it make both Obama and him are a joke.

[orange]

How so? a candidate is proven ineligible which would render his status not valid. This would void everything including Biden (who was the running mate of said ineligible candidate) Leaving McCain as the President by way of default. I do not know for sure but it could also lead to Nancy Pelosi being the intern and a rerun ordered with Clinton being the candidate. I see noway Biden would be President

No. We voters elected ELECTORS who did the actual electing.

They cast votes SEPARATELY for President and Vice President.

Biden is VP independent of BO. If BO were ruled ineligible, the normal/constitutional chain of succession would be followed. The loser of the Presidential balloting is completely out of it.

[orange]

p.s. The whole "proving ineligible" concept is a farce to begin with. There is no court with that jurisdiction. The most likely scenario would involve impeachment proceedings.

[ILChief]

No. We voters elected ELECTORS who did the actual electing.

They cast votes SEPARATELY for President and Vice President.

Biden is VP independent of BO. If BO were ruled ineligible, the normal/constitutional chain of succession would be followed. The loser of the Presidential balloting is completely out of it.

This. Carl Peterson has as much claim to the Presidency as John McCain at this point.

[RedNeckRaider]

No. We voters elected ELECTORS who did the actual electing.

They cast votes SEPARATELY for President and Vice President.

Biden is VP independent of BO. If BO were ruled ineligible, the normal/constitutional chain of succession would be followed. The loser of the Presidential balloting is completely out of it.

I will concede to what appears is your superior knowledge of this. Out of curiosity who would be vice president? FTR I am not buying into the birthgate issue, I just commented on the outcome if it were to happen.

[The_Grand_Illusion]

How do you explain away the contemporaneous reports in Hawaiian newspapers announcing his birth THERE? Were they planted there by Sandy Burger? I just don't see how you make that part up unless there was some motivation by the parent(s) to have him recognized as an American AT THE TIME (assuming he was born elsewhere). Just seems really far-fetched.

Here's a report done by a researcher that investigated the many different ways (and how easy) a person could get a birth certificate in Hawaii in 1961:

http://www.westernjournalism.com/?page_id=2697

Here is a summary of Hawaii’s “state policies and procedures” in 1961.

In the State of Hawaii, back in 1961, there were four different ways to get an “original birth certificate” on record. They varied greatly in their reliability as evidence. For convenience, I’ll call them BC1, BC2, BC3, and BC4.

BC1. If the birth was attended by a physician or mid wife, the attending medical professional was required to certify to the Department of Health the facts of the birth date, location, parents’ identities and other information. (See Section 57-8 & 9 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).

Actual long form Birth Certificate similar to one Obama refuses to release
Actual long form Certificate of Live Birth similar to one Obama refuses to release

BC2. In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or midwife, then all that was required was that one of the parents send in a birth certificate to be filed. The birth certificate could be filed by mail. There appears to have been no requirement for the parent to actually physically appear before “the local registrar of the district.” It would have been very easy for a relative to forge an absent parent’s signature to a form and mail it in. In addition, if a claim was made that “neither parent of the newborn child whose birth is unattended as above provided is able to prepare a birth certificate, the local registrar shall secure the necessary information from any person having knowledge of the birth and prepare and file the certificate.” (Section 57-8&9) I asked the Dept of Health what they currently ask for (in 2008) to back up a parent’s claim that a child was born in Hawaii. I was told that all they required was a proof of residence in Hawaii (e.g. a driver’s license [We know from interviews with her friends on Mercer Island in Washington State that Ann Dunham had acquired a driver’s license by the summer of 1961 at the age of 17] or telephone bill) and pre-natal (statement or report that a woman was pregnant) and post-natal (statement or report that a new-born baby has been examined) certification by a physician. On further enquiry, the employee that I spoke to informed me that the pre-natal and post-natal certifications had probably not been in force in the ‘60s. Even if they had been, there is and was no requirement for a physician or midwife to witness, state or report that the baby was born in Hawaii.

BC3. In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or midwife, then, up to the first birthday of the child, a “Delayed Certificate” could be filed, which required that “a summary statement of the evidence submitted in support of the acceptance for delayed filing or the alteration [of a file] shall be endorsed on the certificates”, which “evidence shall be kept in a special permanent file.” The statute provided that “the probative value of a ‘delayed’ or ‘altered’ certificate shall be determined by the judicial or administrative body or official before whom the certificate is offered as evidence.” (See Section 57- 9, 18, 19 & 20 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).”

[In other words, this form of vault birth certificate, the Delayed Certificate, required no more than a statement before a government bureaucrat by one of the parents or (the law does not seem to me clear on this) one of Barack Obama’s grandparents. If the latter is true, Ann Dunham did not have to be present for this statement or even in the country.]

BC4. If a child is born in Hawaii, for whom no physician or mid wife filed a certificate of live birth, and for whom no Delayed Certificate was filed before the first birthday, then a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth could be issued upon testimony of an adult (including the subject person [i.e. the birth child as an adult]) if the Office of the Lieutenant Governor was satisfied that a person was born in Hawaii, provided that the person had attained the age of one year. (See Section 57-40 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961.) In 1955 the “secretary of the Territory” was in charge of this procedure. In 1960 it was transferred to the Office of the Lieutenant Governor (“the lieutenant governor, or his secretary, or such other person as he may designate or appoint from his office” §338-41 [in 1961]).



The possibility exists that that grandparents were responsible for getting the birth certificate info to the state and therefore would have been passed on to the newspapers.

[RINGLEADER]

sorry, no way mccain would be president. biden would be the new president.

You sure? Wouldn't they invalidate all votes for Obama/Biden if Obama wasn't eligible?

Again, it's not happening, but...

[RINGLEADER]

I will concede to what appears is your superior knowledge of this. Out of curiosity who would be vice president? FTR I am not buying into the birthgate issue, I just commented on the outcome if it were to happen.

If Orange is right I'd think the new Prez would nominate a new Veep and congress would confirm (or not)...

[BucEyedPea]

It'd be Biden, then Pelosi. Are you guys sure you want to keep pressing this issue?

[whoman69]

If Biden were made President then he would nominate a new VP that would have to be OK'd by Congress (see Gerald Ford).