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View Full Version : Chiefs A few thoughts on individual performances in tonights game....


shammus
08-15-2009, 10:04 PM
Don't really have any stats to back all this up but here's what I noticed as I was watching tonights game. Defense shows some promise but offense appeared to be really sputtering. Succup and Colquitt were solid on special teams while our return game was pretty bad. Anyways, I'm sure there's stuff I missed, but here's what I saw specifically -

The Good

Offense
Dwayne Bowe - the offense didn't really pick up until he got into the game. Had several nice plays, including a diving catch and didn't drop any passes. He might have been our biggest impact player in that game. Bradley had a couple nice grabs too.
First team Oline - didn't get to watch this unit too close. Looked like Albert was doing well though.
Dantrell Savage had several nice runs and a good catch out of the backfield.
Backup quarterbacks - looked like Croyle did a decent job moving the ball down the field and Thigpen had some success when he was in as well (mostly running though)

Defense
Dorsey and Jackson appeared to be getting good penetration. I thought I saw Jackson even get a sack or did they give that to Studebaker?
Derrick Johnson was all over the field...several tackles
Tamba Hali - same thing...a couple of his stops were in the backfield
Corey Mays - also racked up quite a few tackles. On the whole, the first team unit of linebackers did really well. Demorrio Williams played well when he was in too. Didn't hear them call Vrabel's name though....
Flowers was very effective. Forced a fumble, nearly had a pick six and played solid defense. I thought Leggett looked really good too - had a sack in the first quarter and was still making plays in the 4th
Alex Magee had a few nice stops at the line against the run that I noticed

Special Teams
Succop was very impressive. All kickoffs were into the endzone or close to it. That 48 yard field goal was absolutely nailed. Very impressive in the rain.

The Bad

Offense
The one sack we gave up looked like Brandon Albert's fault. It appeared it was Albert who totally whiffed on Connor Barwin but the announcers said it was Herb Taylor. Offensive line play dropped off when the backups came in.
The success we had running the ball appeared to be because of Jackie Battle and Dantrell Savage, two guys fighting for a spot with the team. LJ and Javarris Williams were "meh" at best and I don't even recall Jamaal Charles getting in the game.
I noticed Thigpen running for his life and Croyle throwing on the run quite a bit.
The offense really sputtered when Cassel was running it. He had Copper and Darling as his starting wideouts though. When Bradley and Bowe came in, things picked up. Cassel had a couple nice completions and it looked like a couple of the others were dropped.
Did Toomer or Engram even play??

Defense
Didn't seem as though our 2nd team defense put any pressure on the QB and they were able to move the ball down the field easier
Didn't hear Tank Tyler's name called more than once (for a tackle) and didn't hear Edwards called at all. How was our play at NT??

Ugh.....for Chrissakes....
Not pretty for our return game. Never saw anyone get past the 23 yard line on a KR or PR and nobody (Savage, Lawrence, Wright) really stood out and distinguished themselves. I noticed a couple drops too which I suppose happens in the rain.
Letting Matt Turk rumble for a first down was abysmal. He even fumbled the snap first. Someone clearly missed an assignment on that one...
Both Cassel and Croyle fumbled a snap apiece from under center. This led to two turnovers on our side of the field. Oddly enough, Houston didn't appear to have any issues hanging on to the ball though...hmmmm....

MOhillbilly
08-15-2009, 10:08 PM
the middle killed us on D. dink,doink,touchdown.

both sides are terrible,some flashes but still dismal.

Count Zarth
08-15-2009, 10:09 PM
Succop boomed that shit. And I ain't talking about his figgie.

Mecca
08-15-2009, 10:10 PM
For ugh the Brodie Croyle intentional grounding play was so bad it was laugh worthy.

Count Zarth
08-15-2009, 10:11 PM
For ugh the Brodie Croyle intentional grounding play was so bad it was laugh worthy.

That's Croyle's lovable hick streak.

Chocolate Hog
08-15-2009, 10:12 PM
Jarrad Page wiffed on a tackle and missed another. Why isn't Mike Brown starting instead of Page? Brown was in on that sweep play that only got 2 yards easily could have been a first down.

The_Doctor10
08-15-2009, 10:13 PM
For ugh the Brodie Croyle intentional grounding play was so bad it was laugh worthy.

I'm waiting for you to maybe concede that Haley getting tough with Bowe during the last week or so MAY have contributed to his performance tonight.

Just a thought though :P

Slainte
08-15-2009, 10:13 PM
Both Cassel and Croyle fumbled a snap apiece from under center. This led to two turnovers on our side of the field. Oddly enough, Houston didn't appear to have any issues hanging on to the ball though...hmmmm....

Houston had problems with LS/Punter exchange twice. Two opportunities to capitalize but our ST failed...

Chocolate Hog
08-15-2009, 10:14 PM
I'm waiting for you to maybe concede that Haley getting tough with Bowe during the last week or so MAY have contributed to his performance tonight.

Just a thought though :P

Yea cuz Bowe never played that good in games aginst starters.

The_Doctor10
08-15-2009, 10:16 PM
Yea cuz Bowe never played that good in games aginst starters.

The key stat would be 'Zero Drops'. In a fairly heavy rain, from what I could tell, no less. Bowe had a tremendous impact in the limited time he was on the field, and maybe, just MAYBE, it might indicate he's responding positively to what Haley's trying to teach him.

rtmike
08-15-2009, 10:25 PM
I couldn't see sh*t w/ my connection but heard Mays' name being said quite a bit.
Hmmm, wonder if he can catch?

Count Zarth
08-15-2009, 10:34 PM
McIntosh was good tonight. Really, he was.

Count Zarth
08-15-2009, 10:35 PM
Let's get crazy - does Croyle have any trade value if he keeps playing well?

Buehler445
08-15-2009, 10:41 PM
Let's get crazy - does Croyle have any trade value if he keeps playing well?

Goddamn I hope so.

Reerun texted me he was playing well. My response was that I hope we can trade him to MN.

(I haven't seen the game)

LaChapelle
08-15-2009, 10:45 PM
If you can fuse Thigpen and Croyle together.

KCUnited
08-15-2009, 10:59 PM
Battle and Mays.

Count Zarth
08-15-2009, 10:59 PM
If you can fuse Thigpen and Croyle together.

Make sure we get Croyle's brain in there. Just need Thiggy's legs.

shammus
08-15-2009, 11:03 PM
I'd have to think Thigpen has some decent tradevalue as long as he's going to a team that features the Wildcat/spread offense. Should have decent value actually given his performance last year. Maybe a 6th RD pick which could turn into a conditional 5th? Hopefully we can swing a deal for him because last time I checked, he was pretty much last on our depth chart and is really on the bubble regarding whether he even makes our roster at the final-cutdown time.

Buehler445
08-15-2009, 11:05 PM
Make sure we get Croyle's brain in there. Just need Thiggy's connective tissue.

Fixed it.

Slainte
08-15-2009, 11:05 PM
I'd have to think Thigpen has some decent tradevalue as long as he's going to a team that features the Wildcat/spread offense. Should have decent value actually given his performance last year. Maybe a 6th RD pick which could turn into a conditional 5th? Hopefully we can swing a deal for him because last time I checked, he was pretty much last on our depth chart and is really on the bubble regarding whether he even makes our roster at the final-cutdown time.

So which is it: Either Thigpin is on the bubble and likely not to make the roster or he has decent trade value? He can't be both...

kstater
08-15-2009, 11:07 PM
the middle killed us on D. dink,doink,touchdown.

both sides are terrible,some flashes but still dismal.

This, pretty much. The lack of overall talent shows.

orange
08-15-2009, 11:11 PM
The one sack we gave up looked like Brandon Albert's fault. It appeared it was Albert who totally whiffed on Connor Barwin but the announcers said it was Herb Taylor. Offensive line play dropped off when the backups came in."

The Chiefs' radio guys said it was Albert, too, so you're right.

ArrowheadMagic
08-15-2009, 11:15 PM
So which is it: Either Thigpin is on the bubble and likely not to make the roster or he has decent trade value? He can't be both...


If Croyle makes the roster, no way you cant keep Thigpen. Its not like Croyle has shown the ability to make a season let alone a game. If Croyle ever makes it in a game... be rest assured... so will Thigpen.

chiefbowe82
08-15-2009, 11:19 PM
was engram/toomer playing tonight?

shammus
08-15-2009, 11:21 PM
So which is it: Either Thigpin is on the bubble and likely not to make the roster or he has decent trade value? He can't be both...

Well to elaborate, Thigpen has very little value to us but would have value to a team running the spread. My comment from earlier assumes that Gutierrez will eventually beat him out for the #3 QB spot. Given Gutierrez's history with Pioli and experience in this offense, this is a very realistic possibility. My thoughts on trading him involve us parting with him before too much time passes so that other teams don't pick up on the fact that he might not make our team, therefore, he'd still have some tradevalue based upon performance last year. But yes, you're right, no one will give us anything for him if it's three days before final roster cutdown and Gutierrez has already moved ahead of him on the depth chart.

Hope that makes more sense....

TRR
08-15-2009, 11:21 PM
Watching the game over again quickly, there were a few things that jumped out at me...

* LJ missed a HUGE hole on the first drive when Gailey dialed up a draw play. There was a cutback lane with Darling coming down to crack back, and LJ completely missed it. He would still be running.

* Devard Darling set up wrong on the WR slip screen. He came in motion, and should have stopped right where he ended in motion. Instead he came back inside to the ball, and got caught up with the LB's. If he would have stayed outside, he most likely would have picked up the 10+ yards and then some. Instead, it was a short gain.

* Cassell missed Mike Cox short for a first down on his roll out right to avoid pressure. Cox came open very late, and would have been an easier pass for Cassell hitting Cox on the run rather than hitting Ryan on the sideline...which he dropped. Still a good play by Cassell.

* The defense got good pressure. Especially Hali, Dorsey and Jackson. Mays was magnificent, and McGee kept showing up all over the place. The frustrating play for me was the long 3rd and 10 Houston converted. Re-watching, It was actually decent D in which Houston had the perfect O call on to pick up the first down.
Posted via Mobile Device

Slainte
08-15-2009, 11:22 PM
If Croyle makes the roster, no way you cant keep Thigpen. Its not like Croyle has shown the ability to make a season let alone a game. If Croyle ever makes it in a game... be rest assured... so will Thigpen.

http://www.everythingradio.com/images/fragile.jpg

Slainte
08-15-2009, 11:25 PM
Well to elaborate, Thigpen has very little value to us but would have value to a team running the spread. My comment from earlier assumes that Gutierrez will eventually beat him out for the #3 QB spot. Given Gutierrez's history with Pioli and experience in this offense, this is a very realistic possibility. My thoughts on trading him involve us parting with him before too much time passes so that other teams don't pick up on the fact that he might not make our team, therefore, he'd still have some tradevalue based upon performance last year. But yes, you're right, no one will give us anything for him if it's three days before final roster cutdown and Gutierrez has already moved ahead of him on the depth chart.

Hope that makes more sense....

It does, thanks. What confuses me is that Gutierrez was cut by the Pats for that scrub Andrew Walter. How good could he possibly be? (Gutierrez, I mean)

shammus
08-15-2009, 11:26 PM
was engram/toomer playing tonight?

Great question...I wondered about this too. I didn't see either on the field, ever. I saw Engram give Thigpen a pat on the back after his TD pass so it was clear to me that he at least suited up. I never saw Toomer at all.

I wonder if tonight's game will push Haley into a decision, one way or another on whether or not to sign Ashley Lelie....

shammus
08-15-2009, 11:32 PM
It does, thanks. What confuses me is that Gutierrez was cut by the Pats for that scrub Andrew Walter. How good could he possibly be? (Gutierrez, I mean)

You know, that sort of baffled me too. At this point last year, I thought I remember hearing that Gutierrez was actually ahead of Cassel on the depth chart or that some people in New England thought he would make a better backup. Gutierrez just turned 25, maybe the Patriots wanted a more experienced QB, where as KC was happy to land a QB who had experience in the offense they were looking to install?

TRR
08-15-2009, 11:35 PM
Great question...I wondered about this too. I didn't see either on the field, ever. I saw Engram give Thigpen a pat on the back after his TD pass so it was clear to me that he at least suited up. I never saw Toomer at all.

I wonder if tonight's game will push Haley into a decision, one way or another on whether or not to sign Ashley Lelie....

Engram played with the first team on a couple of occasions, running underneath routes. The #1 O just didn't throw the ball very much.

Toomer #13 was suited up on the sideline, but I never actually saw him enter the game.
Posted via Mobile Device

Buehler445
08-15-2009, 11:40 PM
It does, thanks. What confuses me is that Gutierrez was cut by the Pats for that scrub Andrew Walter. How good could he possibly be? (Gutierrez, I mean)

Andrew Walter isn't horrid. He's got some talent. He was just infested with the Oakland suck.

Slainte
08-15-2009, 11:44 PM
Andrew Walter isn't horrid.

I don't know, dude. I saw him in several Raider pre-season games and he blew dead bear chunks...not impressive.

Tiger's Fan
08-15-2009, 11:44 PM
A few observations:

Niswanger looks overmatched at center on every play. The other center, cuharic (sp), isn't worth learning how to spell his name, and should be on the street.

Pollard continues to be a major liability in coverage, and the LBers aren't getting enough of a drop in coverage.

It's silly to think that Bowe won't be starting game one. Message sent and received.

Croyle should be solidly #2. Yes, he's an injury waiting to happen, but in the meantime, he has a rocket arm with good accuracy.

We need a lot more consistency with ST coverage and returns. Garbage.

On the whole, the D looked decent, but I'm concerned with the play of all our safties.

These are the things to pay attention to in a preseason game, ladies, not the final score.

chiefbowe82
08-15-2009, 11:54 PM
Our oline as a whole looked like shit LJ was fighting to get back past the line of scrimmage, not sure why copper/darling started. Cassell was in quite a few series but never really got an opportunity to show himself, he made a couple nice throws. Succop looked impressive strong leg, I have a gut feeling he's going to be special for us. Bowe, toomer, engram, bradley should all be above copper/darling. colquitt had a nice punt. lbers weren't dropping enough in coverage. I seen the chiefs of last year getting gashed run after run for 8 yards while not getting out of the backfield on offense. shaub was 7/7 against us. we showed a couple flashes defensively. flowers did good against their second string struggled against the first. thigpen is a better runner than passer.

Ultra Peanut
08-16-2009, 07:51 AM
Time to buy a Succop jersey.

Pioli Zombie
08-16-2009, 08:02 AM
If you can fuse Thigpen and Croyle together.
You would have two Gay backup quarterbacks.
Posted via Mobile Device

beach tribe
08-16-2009, 08:14 AM
Let's get crazy - does Croyle have any trade value if he keeps playing well?

This is going to sound completely crazy, but i see Croyle having some sort of career in this league. I think someone is going to give him a chance, or he's gonna win a job in camp, or something one day, and I truly see him having a few moments where he rips it up.

the Talking Can
08-16-2009, 08:14 AM
imo, the OL looked like last year: good to stong on the left side, below average to bad on the right...lj looked fine but it still seems like he's in a hurry and misses holes...

DL...ups and downs, weak in the middle...did dorsey do anything?

Hali was better than anyone expected...doesn't mean he'll be good, but he's exceeded very low expectations so far....

LBs made some plays but don't appear to be able to cover yet, will be a problem all year i imagine...Mays certainly stood out, need to see it continue...

I think Jackson looked strong but couldn't really tell with the pixelated feed

Flowers = Total Bad Ass...we need one of him at every level of the defense

Cassel was fine despite everyone's concern trolling...his passes were on target and if our back up WRs could catch we'd have gone some where...his scramble and pass to Ryan was nice, composed play...

Croyle looked solid, but can never quite seal the deal...very surprised to see him bounce back from the knee injury so fast

thigpen's talent is best displayed in the 4th quarters of preseason games...

our fg kicker has a leg stronger than the octomom's vag...

Bowe looked good and focused and no bs....he'll be first team soon if he isn't as we speak....point received...the concern trolling on this has been hilarious (see mecca, gamethread or whitlock)

Charles is the one really getting sent a message, i think (unless he's injured), but no notices or concern trolls about it...he had a couple of carries? clearly behind Battle at this point

pretty much what we we thought was a problem coming in was a problem: WR, NT, right side OL...

vanilla stuff, from which I learned - according to chiefs fans - that a) Thigpen should start b) Haley doesn't know Bowe is a good WR c) our offense is just like Herm's d) and that you can grade play calling in a preseason game....all in all a fine table setting for the season..

Buehler445
08-16-2009, 08:24 AM
DL...ups and downs, weak in the middle...did dorsey do anything?

Hali was better than anyone expected...doesn't mean he'll be good, but he's exceeded very low expectations so far....

Charles is the one really getting sent a message, i think (unless he's injured), but no notices or concern trolls about it...he had a couple of carries? clearly behind Battle at this point


Watching this for the first time this morning.

Dorsey just forced the OL to hold on him, that really helped out the play, FWIW.

WTF is with the D? They're stopping the run and can't stop the pass...Twilight zone.

Charles has been in to block on both 3rd downs. Don't really know what to think of that.

riskrevival
08-16-2009, 08:25 AM
if this was a season game and Schaub would have played the whole game we would have lost by 30. Our safeties and LB pass coverage is awful.

milkman
08-16-2009, 08:26 AM
Watching this for the first time this morning.

Dorsey just forced the OL to hold on him, that really helped out the play, FWIW.

WTF is with the D? They're stopping the run and can't stop the pass...Twilight zone.

Charles has been in to block on both 3rd downs. Don't really know what to think of that.

Dorsey is getting penetration pretty consistently, even though he's getting double teams quite a bit.

Ron Edwards is absolute horseshit.

the Talking Can
08-16-2009, 08:28 AM
Watching this for the first time this morning.

Dorsey just forced the OL to hold on him, that really helped out the play, FWIW.

WTF is with the D? They're stopping the run and can't stop the pass...Twilight zone.

Charles has been in to block on both 3rd downs. Don't really know what to think of that.


thanks, couldn't make out a lot of details on the feed....seemed like dorsey gets moved around on later series, but i could be mistaken

i think, in general, besides just running basic plays in order to have film on these guys, and i mean basic plays...the coaches were much more interested in exposing our second string players, probably to see how agressive we need to be on the waiver wire....

the Talking Can
08-16-2009, 08:28 AM
Dorsey is getting penetration pretty consistently, even though he's getting double teams quite a bit.
.




good to hear

milkman
08-16-2009, 08:28 AM
Watching this for the first time this morning.

Dorsey just forced the OL to hold on him, that really helped out the play, FWIW.

WTF is with the D? They're stopping the run and can't stop the pass...Twilight zone.

Charles has been in to block on both 3rd downs. Don't really know what to think of that.

They are getting gashed up the middle on runs, and Ron Edwards is being pushed around rather easily.

beach tribe
08-16-2009, 08:29 AM
Can someone tell me where Hali was lined up, and how he looked?

The can mentioned that he looked better than expected, can someone elaborate?

the Talking Can
08-16-2009, 08:33 AM
Dorsey is getting penetration pretty consistently, even though he's getting double teams quite a bit.

Ron Edwards is absolute horseshit.

are you waching it again?

what do you think of the OL from center to RT?

cdcox
08-16-2009, 08:33 AM
Can someone tell me where Hali was lined up, and how he looked?

The can mentioned that he looked better than expected, can someone elaborate?

The last two runs on the scoring drive went right over him.

riskrevival
08-16-2009, 08:34 AM
it looks like more of a 4-3 under than an actual 3-4, they still have 4 guys come to the line just one dude stands. So it's still like Hali is playing DE.

Buehler445
08-16-2009, 08:35 AM
Can someone tell me where Hali was lined up, and how he looked?

The can mentioned that he looked better than expected, can someone elaborate?

Umm. I think most of the time he is on the left. I need to pay better attention, but he looks much much faster. Been getting in the backfield more consistently. Hasn't been run over as of yet.

KCUnited
08-16-2009, 08:40 AM
Hali also accounted for a 5 yard offsides penalty and finished the game with a couple tackles. He did look quicker and more disruptive with the rush than he did playing end.

beach tribe
08-16-2009, 08:41 AM
Umm. I think most of the time he is on the left. I need to pay better attention, but he looks much much faster. Been getting in the backfield more consistently. Hasn't been run over as of yet.

cdcox disagrees.

milkman
08-16-2009, 08:42 AM
are you waching it again?

what do you think of the OL from center to RT?

This is my first time watching it, and I'm focusing specifically on Dorey and Edwards on defense, and Albert and MacIntosh on offense.

I'm recording it so I can focus on different players at another time.

What I've seen to this point is that Dorsey is hitting the B gap, and really giving Hali opportunities to make plays from his standup OLB position.

Edwards is absolute dogcrap.

Albert doen't look quite as strong as he did before he lost the weight, but still has the quick feet.

And MacIntosh looks a little quicker, but is still the suck overall.

Buehler445
08-16-2009, 08:43 AM
The last two runs on the scoring drive went right over him.

I could be wrong. I need to pay better attention.

milkman
08-16-2009, 08:44 AM
Umm. I think most of the time he is on the left. I need to pay better attention, but he looks much much faster. Been getting in the backfield more consistently. Hasn't been run over as of yet.

hali and Vrabel have been flip flopping quite a bit.

milkman
08-16-2009, 08:46 AM
The last two runs on the scoring drive went right over him.

Hali is still a weak run defender at the point of attack, but he has looked quicker and faster, and shown some speed in backside pursuit.

Buehler445
08-16-2009, 08:46 AM
This is my first time watching it, and I'm focusing specifically on Dorey and Edwards on defense, and Albert and MacIntosh on offense.

I'm recording it so I can focus on different players at another time.

What I've seen to this point is that Dorsey is hitting the B gap, and really giving Hali opportunities to make plays from his standup OLB position.

Edwards is absolute dogcrap.

Albert doen't look quite as strong as he did before he lost the weight, but still has the quick feet.

And MacIntosh looks a little quicker, but is still the suck overall.

The other thing I will add about Hali is that I have not seen him in coverage. Any reason Tyler isn't in there? Is Edwards....better?.....:Lin:

Buehler445
08-16-2009, 08:47 AM
hali and Vrabel have been flip flopping quite a bit.

Yeah, his offside penalty :banghead: was from the right.

milkman
08-16-2009, 08:48 AM
The other thing I will add about Hali is that I have not seen him in coverage. Any reason Tyler isn't in there? Is Edwards....better?.....:Lin:

I don't know.

I plan on watching Tyler when the second unit is on.

milkman
08-16-2009, 08:50 AM
JackieBattle has much better vision than LJ.

Buehler445
08-16-2009, 08:51 AM
Good Jesus. McIntosh is bad.

Buehler445
08-16-2009, 08:51 AM
JackieBattle has much better vision than LJ.

Plus he looks like he has MUCH more speed last year. I hope he makes it. He's a bruiser.

milkman
08-16-2009, 08:57 AM
From what I'm seeing, Corey Mays is making a lot of plays in the middle, and that is in large part because Dorsey is commanding so much attention at the LOS.

the Talking Can
08-16-2009, 09:00 AM
This is my first time watching it, and I'm focusing specifically on Dorey and Edwards on defense, and Albert and MacIntosh on offense.

I'm recording it so I can focus on different players at another time.

What I've seen to this point is that Dorsey is hitting the B gap, and really giving Hali opportunities to make plays from his standup OLB position.

Edwards is absolute dogcrap.

Albert doen't look quite as strong as he did before he lost the weight, but still has the quick feet.

And MacIntosh looks a little quicker, but is still the suck overall.


gracias

Buehler445
08-16-2009, 09:06 AM
Pollard is playing hurt, but still playing well. I haven't seen a missed tackle yet.

Buehler445
08-16-2009, 09:06 AM
From what I'm seeing, Corey Mays is making a lot of plays in the middle, and that is in large part because Dorsey is commanding so much attention at the LOS.

It looks like he has some pretty nice instincts.

milkman
08-16-2009, 09:18 AM
It looked like Albert was completely caught off guard by Connor Barwin's speed on that sack.

OnTheWarpath58
08-16-2009, 09:25 AM
are you waching it again?

what do you think of the OL from center to RT?

I had to turn it off.

Niswanger was meh.

Goff was downright bad.

McIntosh was McIntosh.

We didn't run the ball behind the right side of the line until AFTER Goff had left the game, and even then, the one time they did, Charles was stopped for a 1 yard gain.

It's only pre-season, but we're going to face much better defensive fronts than Houston in the regular season - better lock this shit up.

milkman
08-16-2009, 09:33 AM
I had to turn it off.

Niswanger was meh.

Goff was downright bad.

McIntosh was McIntosh.

We didn't run the ball behind the right side of the line until AFTER Goff had left the game, and even then, the one time they did, Charles was stopped for a 1 yard gain.

It's only pre-season, but we're going to face much better defensive fronts than Houston in the regular season - better lock this shit up.

Din't pay close attention to Niswager, but he did look like he got completely abused on a couple of plays I noticed.

As for McIntohs, I just can't envision this FO and staff going into the season with him as the starter.

I will point out, however, that there was huge hole on the right side earlier in the game that LJ could have made one quick cut to if he had any vision, and as Big Rock said in anther thread, he'd still be running if he sees it.

OnTheWarpath58
08-16-2009, 09:37 AM
Din't pay close attention to Niswager, but he did look like he got completely abused on a couple of plays I noticed.

As for McIntohs, I just can't envision this FO and staff going into the season with him as the starter.

I will point out, however, that there was huge hole on the right side earlier in the game that LJ could have made one quick cut to if he had any vision, and as Big Rock said in anther thread, he'd still be running if he sees it.

If you watch it a 2nd time, watch Goff.

Bad in the run game, terrible in the pass game. The majority of the pressure was coming from his man.

Rudy was OK in the run game, but was getting abused in pass protection.

Iowanian
08-16-2009, 09:38 AM
McIntosh is still terrible at RT. I thought Goff played like a sack of buttholes too. I didn't see enoug of Herb Taylor or Richardson to say.


I noticed Ron Edwards getting blown off the ball and Boone didn't do shit. Dorsey and Jackson both looked like they moved their guys a step back and made good penetration. McGee did pretty good from what I could see also.

The corners looked very good, and while Pollard isn't great in coverage he was dishing out some good hits.

The TEs look terrible.

Buehler445
08-16-2009, 09:40 AM
They've got Richardson in at LT...With Taylor at RT.

WTF?

milkman
08-16-2009, 09:44 AM
If you watch it a 2nd time, watch Goff.

Bad in the run game, terrible in the pass game. The majority of the pressure was coming from his man.

Rudy was OK in the run game, but was getting abused in pass protection.

Yeah, I was planning to watch it again, and Niswanger and Goff were going to be the focus.

EyePod
08-16-2009, 09:46 AM
For ugh the Brodie Croyle intentional grounding play was so bad it was laugh worthy.

I really thought it didn't matter if you were out of the pocket, I've seen that same play by Brady with no flag.

milkman
08-16-2009, 09:46 AM
They've got Richardson in at LT...With Taylor at RT.

WTF?

Ricchardson was all SEC at LT at Clemson, and has gotten some second team snaps there in TC.

He was in earlier at RT and looked like shit, but has looked credible here at LT.

It seems he just can't transition to RT.

cdcox
08-16-2009, 09:48 AM
I really thought it didn't matter if you were out of the pocket, I've seen that same play by Brady with no flag.

You have to throw the ball past the LOS. Just a mental breakdown by Croyle.

Iowanian
08-16-2009, 09:49 AM
Anyone else notice Brown going in as the 2nd OG?

cdcox
08-16-2009, 09:52 AM
Bowe is a real difference maker.

milkman
08-16-2009, 09:52 AM
Anyone else notice Brown going in as the 2nd OG?

No, did he?

EyePod
08-16-2009, 09:52 AM
You have to throw the ball past the LOS. Just a mental breakdown by Croyle.

He doesn't do it often, and it's the preseason. He won't ever do that again. He made his statement on the field. What happens though if Croyle looks much better all preseason? I know Haley says that he has an open competition, but I'm guessing that he wouldn't, which sucks (although Brodie just can't stay healthy ever...).

milkman
08-16-2009, 09:55 AM
As I said, Richardson is going a nice job at LT right now, and Herb Taylor should be given the chnace to start at RT next game.

Buehler445
08-16-2009, 09:58 AM
Ricchardson was all SEC at LT at Clemson, and has gotten some second team snaps there in TC.

He was in earlier at RT and looked like shit, but has looked credible here at LT.

It seems he just can't transition to RT.

:(

I want Sackintosh out.

He still looks a bit sluggish at LT, but could be an effective backup. Better than Taylor? Maybe.

I think if they're going to put Taylor in at RT, he needs to start, because I've said it several times. He's better at doing what McIntosh does than McIntosh is.

Buehler445
08-16-2009, 10:00 AM
He doesn't do it often, and it's the preseason. He won't ever do that again. He made his statement on the field. What happens though if Croyle looks much better all preseason? I know Haley says that he has an open competition, but I'm guessing that he wouldn't, which sucks (although Brodie just can't stay healthy ever...).

My guess is he will pull the practice card. "We look at the total package. OTAs, Training Camp, Preseason, all of it. Cassel has been the unquestioned leader and done what we've asked of him."

OnTheWarpath58
08-16-2009, 10:02 AM
Anyone else notice Brown going in as the 2nd OG?

Yeah, he was playing RG during that Charles run I referenced earlier.

NFL16
08-16-2009, 10:02 AM
I remember noticing Jackson getting pushed back from the LOS on a couple of plays due to the fact that he was playing too high against his man. That is certainly something he can work on. He is pretty quick and fast, though.

milkman
08-16-2009, 10:04 AM
:(

I want Sackintosh out.

He still looks a bit sluggish at LT, but could be an effective backup. Better than Taylor? Maybe.

I think if they're going to put Taylor in at RT, he needs to start, because I've said it several times. He's better at doing what McIntosh does than McIntosh is.

I think Taylor is our best RT, and our best backup at LT, but we would be better with him at RT and Richardson as a backup at LT, than we are with Taylor as a backup swing tackle.

milkman
08-16-2009, 10:06 AM
Tank Tyler going against second team double teams has been more effective that Ron Edwards was going against first team single blocks.

old_geezer
08-16-2009, 10:22 AM
After watching our receivers last night I'm of the opinion that "The Vampires" would be a good name for this unit since (with the exception of Bowe) they all seem to suck at what they do.

Buehler445
08-16-2009, 10:23 AM
I thought Bradley made some nice catches.

milkman
08-16-2009, 10:24 AM
After watching our receivers last night I'm of the opinion that "The Vampires" would be a good name for this unit since (with the exception of Bowe) they all seem to suck at what they do.

Mark Bradley played pretty well, also.

Coogs
08-16-2009, 10:26 AM
That 3rd down play by the Texans in the middle of the Stu Stram interview must have been the 2-4-5 set we have been hearing about. Tyler was the RDT, and McGee was the LDT. Both did a nice job with their double teams as McGee held his ground, and Tyler moved his two guys back. The Texans ran up the middle for 5 yard gain or so, but had it been a pass, Tyler was making a good push up the middle.

Buehler445
08-16-2009, 10:27 AM
I thought Bradley made some nice catches.

Mark Bradley played pretty well, also.

Repost :D

Actually I'm really happy that you agree with me.

RedThat
08-16-2009, 10:28 AM
I am confident in Herb's ability to pass block, not sure about run blocking. To be a RT, you have to be a road grader Im not so sure I see him as that.

Coogs
08-16-2009, 10:29 AM
They ran the 2-4-5 on the next 3rd and 7 as well. Don't know if we ran this defense earlier in the game or not, but I just happened to notice it on those two occasions.

RedThat
08-16-2009, 10:32 AM
We have 2 players on this team that i and probably many others feel confident about, Mark Bradley, and Mike Brown.

If those two guys are healthy, clearly, they are better then what we currently have starting at those positions.

Mr_Tomahawk
08-16-2009, 10:32 AM
Didn't get to watch the game last night but been watching the replay on NFLN.

Offense was never on the same page. Very vanilla playcalling.

MC had some good throws. He looked fairly well in this new setup given the rainy conditions. He just needs WRs to catch is passes.

Bowe, Bradley, and Copper made some solid catches. I think Bowe got the message. He made some great catches in the rain. He needs to be on the starting offense next week.

Running game moved the ball.

Our Defense looked the most improved since last year. Houston* couldn't run the ball against them. Some sloppy plays earned the D gassers during practice.

Look forward to seeing this team next week in person.

Grade C+/B-

Buehler445
08-16-2009, 10:33 AM
I am confident in Herb's ability to pass block, not sure about run blocking. To be a RT, you have to be a road grader Im not so sure I see him as that.

He's better than McIntosh at moving people.

Buehler445
08-16-2009, 10:34 AM
We have 2 players on this team that i and probably many others feel confident about, Mark Bradley, and Mike Brown.

If those two guys are healthy, clearly, they are better then what we currently have starting at those positions.

Brown did nothing.

I was much more impressed with Pollard and Page. There were no missed tackles that I saw. Pollard was limping hard and still was getting his nose in there.

milkman
08-16-2009, 10:36 AM
I am confident in Herb's ability to pass block, not sure about run blocking. To be a RT, you have to be a road grader Im not so sure I see him as that.

We all understand that you want a road grader at RT, but at this point we don't have that.

Herb Taylor, right now is more effective, both as a run blocker and in pass protection, than Damion McSuckoff.

You go with the best that you have, even if he isn't ideal for the position.

RedThat
08-16-2009, 10:37 AM
Brown did nothing.

I was much more impressed with Pollard and Page. There were no missed tackles that I saw. Pollard was limping hard and still was getting his nose in there.

i think Pollard will improve. Im not a big fan of page. He takes a lot of bad angles and whiffs a lot of tackles. That was the case last year, his athletic ability and ability to cover ground is awesome, but to miss tackles and take bad angles are whats preventing him from being a really good safety.

milkman
08-16-2009, 10:38 AM
Brown did nothing.

I was much more impressed with Pollard and Page. There were no missed tackles that I saw. Pollard was limping hard and still was getting his nose in there.

This.

Buehler445
08-16-2009, 10:38 AM
We all understand that you want a road grader at RT, but at this point we don't have that.

Herb Taylor, right now is more effective, both as a run blocker and in pass protection, than Damion McSuckoff.

You go with the best that you have, even if he isn't ideal for the position.

That's pretty much the way I feel and have been arguing about since last season.

I am disappointed that they had to move Richardson to LT.

RedThat
08-16-2009, 10:38 AM
We all understand that you want a road grader at RT, but at this point we don't have that.

Herb Taylor, right now is more effective, both as a run blocker and in pass protection, than Damion McSuckoff.

You go with the best that you have, even if he isn't ideal for the position.

thats true. im surprised he is not starting when clearly he should be.

Buehler445
08-16-2009, 10:42 AM
i think Pollard will improve. Im not a big fan of page. He takes a lot of bad angles and whiffs a lot of tackles. That was the case last year, his athletic ability and ability to cover ground is awesome, but to miss tackles and take bad angles are whats preventing him from being a really good safety.

I understand that. But I also get tired of hearing that he is trash and that Brown is head and shoulders above P&P. It may end up that way, but it was not evident on the field yesterday.

EDIT: Note that I am not suggesting you are one of the empty cans that endlessly hates on P&P. I just thought P&P had a nice game.

RedThat
08-16-2009, 10:45 AM
I understand that. But I also get tired of hearing that he is trash and that Brown is head and shoulders above P&P. It may end up that way, but it was not evident on the field yesterday.

Page and pollard have to show consistency. Thats the key right there.

if they do that, they'll be the starters. if not, mike brown can come in play...I just want some stability at the safety position. We haven't had that in a long time.

milkman
08-16-2009, 10:48 AM
That's pretty much the way I feel and have been arguing about since last season.

I am disappointed that they had to move Richardson to LT.

I am disappointed as well, but he just seems to have a mental block or something get in the way of making the transition from LT.

He wasn't anything to write home about at LT, but he was credible, but he makes McSuckoff look all pro by comparison at RT.

RedThat
08-16-2009, 10:51 AM
I sense hatred for McIntosh lol

Bwana
08-16-2009, 10:52 AM
After watching our receivers last night I'm of the opinion that "The Vampires" would be a good name for this unit since (with the exception of Bowe) they all seem to suck at what they do.

ROFL

the Talking Can
08-16-2009, 11:40 AM
I had to turn it off.

Niswanger was meh.

Goff was downright bad.

McIntosh was McIntosh.

We didn't run the ball behind the right side of the line until AFTER Goff had left the game, and even then, the one time they did, Charles was stopped for a 1 yard gain.

It's only pre-season, but we're going to face much better defensive fronts than Houston in the regular season - better lock this shit up.

thanks, that confirms my fearful impressions...

Chiefnj2
08-16-2009, 11:46 AM
I watched into the 2nd quarter this morning. I was semi-impressed by the starting defense. Their first time ever in a 3-4 and it wasn't that bad. Reading some of the in-game comments last night had me believing I'd be watching a GROB/HERM/Gunther reincarnate.

On offense, IMO, Haley was observing things we can't specifically identify. Obviously he wanted to see the new receivers against a first string defense. Other than that, the play calling was very plain and put Cassel in some tough situations.

DeezNutz
08-16-2009, 11:49 AM
This is the type of thread where CP really shines.

Some really nice individual analyses from a lot of posters in this thread. Thanks for the efforts, boys.

Count Zarth
08-16-2009, 12:03 PM
People are being too harsh on Sackintosh because of his reputation.

He had a good game last night.

Hell the worst whiff of the night belonged to Albert.

milkman
08-16-2009, 12:07 PM
People are being too harsh on Sackintosh because of his reputation.

He had a good game last night.

Hell the worst whiff of the night belonged to Albert.

Yes, Albert did make a mental mistake, and as a result, he did have the whiff of the night.

However, if you actually watched McSuckoff, and actually knew what you were watching, something I know you haven't a clue on, you'd see that McSuckoff isn't being harshly critisized.

Count Zarth
08-16-2009, 12:09 PM
Yes, Albert did make a mental mistake, and as a result, he did have the whiff of the night.

However, if you actually watched McSuckoff, and actually knew what you were watching, something I know you haven't a clue on, you'd see that McSuckoff isn't being harshly critisized.

I didn't watch him that closely. But he wasn't getting blown by like he did last year.

milkman
08-16-2009, 12:12 PM
I didn't watch him that closely. But he wasn't getting blown by like he did last year.

I already noted earlier in this thread (or elsewhere, perhaps) that his quickness has improved.

But he still isn't able to sustain a block, and he is virtually useless as a run blocker.

Count Zarth
08-16-2009, 12:13 PM
I already noted earlier in this thread (or elsewhere, perhaps) that his quickness has improved.

But he still isn't able to sustain a block, and he is virtually useless as a run blocker.

No question. I was speaking strictly to pass protection.

Rain Man
08-16-2009, 01:44 PM
Having watched the game this morning, I'll offer the following observations.

1. If I was a Mauritanian goatherd watching my first football game knowing nothing about contracts or draft value, I'd say that Brodie Croyle was the best quarterback on the team. I know Cassel is the starter, but Brodie zipped that ball and played well.

2. Julian Battle is going to make the team and be a good breather back for LJ.

3. Dantrell Savage will be our return guy, if for no reason other than he can field a kick. I know it was wet, but those other return guys scared me.

4. Let's hope Dwayne Bowe doesn't get hurt this year, or it'll be like the Chris Thomas year back in 2001 when Trent first arrived. And I didn't get enough information on the tight ends to even consider them.

5. People are way too hard on McIntosh around here. I'm not saying he's an all-pro, but there's a legitimate likelihood that he's our best RT right now. That said, if Herb or Barry beats him, that's great.

6. I thought our d-line did decently well at their job of holding the line of scrimmage, first drive excepted. It seemed to me that Edwards was doing better than Tank, but I didn't see a whole lot of Tank.

7. I wasn't as impressed with Corey Mays as the announcers were. I kind of saw Pat Thomas v2009.

8. Magee is active. I'll be interested in seeing his progression.

9. Andy Studebaker is going to make the team, and I think they're trying to figure out how to use him. I think he played three full quarters, which means they're testing him. If not for Hali being penciled in, I could really see Studebaker as a starting pass-rushing linebacker.

10. Hali seemed to be around the ball a lot, but I was also trying to figure out why Houston was completing all those short passes in the first half. With the camera work, I couldn't tell if it was Hali getting beat or something else.

11. Pollard was making some explosive hits. I'm not sure why they didn't pull him, though, since he obviously hurt an ankle or something early on.

12. I like our corners. Leggett is one of those out-of-nowhere guys that I've got high hopes for.

Iowanian
08-16-2009, 02:39 PM
I rewatched part of the game.

Something to consider, Goff and Sackingash were lined up against Okoye and Williams, who are a pretty good tandem.

It doesn't make their performance any less shitty but it makes more sense.

Buehler445
08-16-2009, 05:06 PM
I rewatched part of the game.

Something to consider, Goff and Sackingash were lined up against Okoye and Williams, who are a pretty good tandem.

It doesn't make their performance any less shitty but it makes more sense.

That's a good point.

DaneMcCloud
08-16-2009, 09:18 PM
People are being too harsh on Sackintosh because of his reputation.

He had a good game last night.


You're fucking insane.

DaneMcCloud
08-16-2009, 09:27 PM
I was impressed by the second team left and right guards, Colin Brown & Daryl Harris.

Harris played very well and could be the eventual replacement for Waters. It's only one preseason game but I liked what I saw quite a bit. He's 6'4, 300, so he's got ideal size. Colin Brown didn't play as "tall" as I expected him to play. I thought that at 6'7, he'd stand out like a sore thumb but he looked like Richardson when they were side by side. I saw no drop off in play when Brown replaced Goff, although Brown played against the 2nd & 3rd teamers.

I was pleasantly surprised (and initially, confused) about Richardson on the left side. His pass protection was very good and he did well in the run game. He wasn't nearly as effective on the right side and as someone suggested earlier, it's looking like he should be the primary backup to Albert. Whoda thunk? The Chiefs with three legitimate left tackles.

On defense, I was impressed with Corey Mays. He just appeared to be every where. Hali was better than "expected" but I wasn't expecting much. It's very clear that if the Chiefs can't find a reasonable solution at NT that teams will just run us over. Facing backs like Ray Rice, Darren McFadden, Rashard Mendenhall and so on really scares me at this point.

Dorsey, Jackson and Magee did their jobs but this defense won't be successful and complete without two edge pass rushers, a tough strong safety and most importantly, a nose tackle.

Also, I like Wright's potential and look forward to watching his progress in the coming weeks. Any other receiver not named Bowe, Bradley or Wright weren't impressive. And finally, our tight end position sucks fucking ass. Woo-hoo!

Buehler445
08-16-2009, 09:30 PM
I was impressed by the second team left and right guards, Colin Brown & Daryl Harris.

Harris played very well and could be the eventual replacement for Waters. It's only one preseason game but I liked what I saw quite a bit. He's 6'4, 300, so he's got ideal size. Colin Brown didn't play as "tall" as I expected him to play. I thought that at 6'7, he'd stand out like a sore thumb but he looked like Richardson when they were side by side. I saw no drop off in play when Brown replaced Goff, although Brown played against the 2nd & 3rd teamers.

I was pleasantly surprised (and initially, confused) about Richardson on the left side. His pass protection was very good and he did well in the run game. He wasn't nearly as effective on the right side and as someone suggested earlier, it's looking like he should be the primary backup to Albert. Whoda thunk? The Chiefs with three legitimate left tackles.

On defense, I was impressed with Corey Mays. He just appeared to be every where. Hali was better than "expected" but I wasn't expecting much. It's very clear that if the Chiefs can't find a reasonable solution at NT that teams will just run us over. Facing backs like Ray Rice, Darren McFadden, Rashard Mendenhall and so on really scares me at this point.

Dorsey, Jackson and Magee did their jobs but this defense won't be successful and complete without two edge pass rushers, a tough strong safety and most importantly, a nose tackle.

Also, I like Wright's potential and look forward to watching his progress in the coming weeks. Any other receiver not named Bowe, Bradley or Wright weren't impressive. And finally, our tight end position sucks fucking ass. Woo-hoo!

I was very disappointed Richardson didn't work out on the Right. I'll continue to argue that Taylor is the best option there, if Richardson is indeed out for RT.

DaneMcCloud
08-16-2009, 09:39 PM
I was very disappointed Richardson didn't work out on the Right. I'll continue to argue that Taylor is the best option there, if Richardson is indeed out for RT.

Well, I wouldn't use the word "disappointed".

He played well on the left side, so like Taylor, it just appears that neither is ideally suited for the right side.

If this were "my" football team, I'd stick Taylor at right tackle and leave him there for the remainder of training camp. I'd demote ScIntosh and tell Taylor that it's his job to lose.

ScIntosh will not improve. Taylor might.

Count Zarth
08-16-2009, 09:42 PM
ScIntosh will not improve. Taylor might.

Did you see Mario Williams putting pressure on Cassel? I sure didn't, at least not when he went against McIntosh.

He still can't run block, but I think McIntosh has improved quite a bit in pass protection. That's the only reason he's out there at this point - Haley thinks he's good enough to start, because he can pass protect.

DaneMcCloud
08-16-2009, 09:44 PM
Did you see Mario Williams putting pressure on Cassel? I sure didn't, at least not when he went against McIntosh.

He still can't run block, but I think McIntosh has improved quite a bit in pass protection. That's the only reason he's out there at this point - Haley thinks he's good enough to start, because he can pass protect.

He fucking sucks and so does Goff.

You were absolutely, unequivocally wrong about Goff.

Count Zarth
08-16-2009, 09:48 PM
He fucking sucks and so does Goff.

You were absolutely, unequivocally wrong about Goff.

ROFL

One game certainly proves it.

milkman
08-19-2009, 07:05 AM
I was impressed by the second team left and right guards, Colin Brown & Daryl Harris.

Harris played very well and could be the eventual replacement for Waters. It's only one preseason game but I liked what I saw quite a bit. He's 6'4, 300, so he's got ideal size. Colin Brown didn't play as "tall" as I expected him to play. I thought that at 6'7, he'd stand out like a sore thumb but he looked like Richardson when they were side by side. I saw no drop off in play when Brown replaced Goff, although Brown played against the 2nd & 3rd teamers.

Just finished rewatching the game, and, yes, I was impressed with the play of both Brown and Harris.

They were both quicker than the guys they replaced, getting out and pulling, and getting into position on a screen.
They handled their blocking assignments without getting double team help in pass protect.
As I noted elsewhere, Brown get clowned on one play in which he gave up a sack, but that was his only real hiccup.

Harris was just flat out impressive for an UDRFA.

Also, in watching the inteerior linemen, I saw that Niswanger did a better job of keeping his backside down at the snap, but he was still slow getting out of his stance and getting up and into position to bolck.
Unfortunately, he is still (marginally) better than Eric Ghiaciuc.

I was pleasantly surprised (and initially, confused) about Richardson on the left side. His pass protection was very good and he did well in the run game. He wasn't nearly as effective on the right side and as someone suggested earlier, it's looking like he should be the primary backup to Albert. Whoda thunk? The Chiefs with three legitimate left tackles.

Agreed, though it appears he's going to be given the chance to win the job at RT.

On defense, I was impressed with Corey Mays. He just appeared to be every where. Hali was better than "expected" but I wasn't expecting much. It's very clear that if the Chiefs can't find a reasonable solution at NT that teams will just run us over. Facing backs like Ray Rice, Darren McFadden, Rashard Mendenhall and so on really scares me at this point.

Dorsey, Jackson and Magee did their jobs but this defense won't be successful and complete without two edge pass rushers, a tough strong safety and most importantly, a nose tackle.

Also, I like Wright's potential and look forward to watching his progress in the coming weeks. Any other receiver not named Bowe, Bradley or Wright weren't impressive. And finally, our tight end position sucks ****ing ass. Woo-hoo!

Corey Mays was impressive, and I just can't see how there is any way that Zach Thomas should be starting ahead of him when he finally makes his way out of the tub.

Thomas was clearly on the decline when he was released by the Dolphins, and he wasn't all that good in the Cowboys 34 last year.

DJ showed more consistency in his play in this game than in any game that I can remember.
This scheme appears to be a good fit for him, though I don't know that he will ever play up to his draft position.

Hali was better than expected, but he has a long way to go, and Andy Studebaker looks quicker, faster, more athletic, and seems to have adjusted far more qucikly to the transiton from DE than Hali, not only outshining Hali as a pass rusher, but far more disciplined in run defense, and more fluid in dropping back in pass coverage, though there's still more work there.
I won't be the least bit surprised if he replaces Hali in the starting lineup by the start of the season.

With Dorsey, Jackson, and Magee, it appears we have a solid DE rotation, but Alex Boone was nearly as ineffective at DE as Ron Edwards was at NT.
Tank Tyler outplayed Edwards with the second unit, and should be given an opportunity to line up with the first team
He won't be the answer there, but he doesn't appear to be nearly as big a question.

Our situation at WR appearss to be a fluid situation and a continuing work in progress.

milkman
08-19-2009, 07:07 AM
Did you see Mario Williams putting pressure on Cassel? I sure didn't, at least not when he went against McIntosh.

He still can't run block, but I think McIntosh has improved quite a bit in pass protection. That's the only reason he's out there at this point - Haley thinks he's good enough to start, because he can pass protect.

Apparently Haley (and Bill Muir) agree with most of the rest of us.

Count Zarth
08-19-2009, 07:33 AM
Apparently Haley (and Bill Muir) agree with most of the rest of us.

McIntosh is still #1.

milkman
08-19-2009, 07:45 AM
McIntosh is still #1.

On the depth chart that means absolutely nothing at this point in time.

Barry Richardson is getting snaps with the first team this week, and that's all that matters.

Count Zarth
08-19-2009, 07:46 AM
On the depth chart that means absolutely nothing at this point in time.

Barry Richardson is getting snaps with the first team this week, and that's all that matters.

I'm guessing you don't feel the same way about Devard Darling.

milkman
08-19-2009, 07:50 AM
I'm guessing you don't feel the same way about Devard Darling.

You'd guess wrong.

Count Zarth
08-19-2009, 07:54 AM
Well, at least you're consistent.

I for one will be very surprised if either line up as starters.

milkman
08-19-2009, 08:03 AM
Well, at least you're consistent.

I for one will be very surprised if either line up as starters.

So would I.

Here's the difference, though.

Bowe will play his way back to the first team because he's far more talented that Darling.
He just need to show the work for Haley, and he appears to have gotten the message.

Richardson will play his way back to the second team unless the light comes on and he suddenly gets it, because, quite frankly, his play at RT has been even less impressive that McInSuck's.

Buehler445
08-19-2009, 09:48 AM
Well, I wouldn't use the word "disappointed".

He played well on the left side, so like Taylor, it just appears that neither is ideally suited for the right side.

If this were "my" football team, I'd stick Taylor at right tackle and leave him there for the remainder of training camp. I'd demote ScIntosh and tell Taylor that it's his job to lose.

ScIntosh will not improve. Taylor might.

I've been saying that since LAST offseason. Or maybe it was after he came in for Albert when he was hurt.

Either way, a long fucking time.

Nice analysis milkman. Much appreciated.
Posted via Mobile Device

DaneMcCloud
08-19-2009, 11:34 AM
Just finished rewatching the game, and, yes, I was impressed with the play of both Brown and Harris.

Harris was just flat out impressive for an UDRFA.

I'm glad I wasn't just "seeing" things. It's odd to me that this thread had 126 replies before anyone mentioned the play of Harris & Brown (me).

As for Harris being an UDFA, on one hand, I'm surprised that he was undrafted because he played so damn well but on the other, when guys like Brian Waters and Ryan Lilja are undrafted, it just goes to show that you don't have to spend first or early second day picks on a guard.

I'll be watching both guys closely against Minnesota, though they likely won't see any time against their first team d-line. But, I do want to see consistency and if they both show that, the Chiefs may have part of their future offensive line already in place. I'm pretty stoked about both players, especially Harris because it's been a long time since we've had a good, young, consistent offensive line.

Also, in watching the inteerior linemen, I saw that Niswanger did a better job of keeping his backside down at the snap, but he was still slow getting out of his stance and getting up and into position to bolck.
Unfortunately, he is still (marginally) better than Eric Ghiaciuc.

I still can't understand why the Chiefs didn't draft a center and move the 'Wanger to guard. He was far more effective as a right guard than as a center. Let's just hope that the Chiefs solidify the right guard position after Friday (whether it be Brown or Goff - And I'm fully against Goff at this point) because maybe some consistent play at right guard will help the 'Wanger, which is something he did not have last year.

Agreed, though it appears he's going to be given the chance to win the job at RT.

How bizarre is that the Chiefs have three legitimate left tackles, which are at a premium in this league, but yet they can't seem to find a right tackle to save their lives. Tait was the last right tackle to really own the position and even he was originally drafted as a left tackle.

Corey Mays was impressive, and I just can't see how there is any way that Zach Thomas should be starting ahead of him when he finally makes his way out of the tub. Thomas was clearly on the decline when he was released by the Dolphins, and he wasn't all that good in the Cowboys 34 last year.

If Haley stays true to his word, there's no way that Thomas is a starter. Who knows? He may not even be healthy enough to make the squad and if so, the Chiefs had better be scouring the waiver wire for a backup to Mays.

14 years in the NFL is tough on anyone, espeically a 37 year old linebacker.

DJ showed more consistency in his play in this game than in any game that I can remember. This scheme appears to be a good fit for him, though I don't know that he will ever play up to his draft position.

I agree, DJ was "better" but there's no way he ever plays to #15 overall. It's just too late. He is most certainly a disappointment but I guess we all need to move beyond his draft status and just hope he stays healthy and consistent.

That's all we can ask for at this point.

Hali was better than expected, but he has a long way to go, and Andy Studebaker looks quicker, faster, more athletic, and seems to have adjusted far more qucikly to the transiton from DE than Hali, not only outshining Hali as a pass rusher, but far more disciplined in run defense, and more fluid in dropping back in pass coverage, though there's still more work there. I won't be the least bit surprised if he replaces Hali in the starting lineup by the start of the season.

Poor Hali, man. That guy has the work ethic of a champion but just can't seem to overcome his limited athletic ability. Whether it's the start of the season or mid-season, I have a feeling he will begin to see the playing field less and less.

With Dorsey, Jackson, and Magee, it appears we have a solid DE rotation, but Alex Boone was nearly as ineffective at DE as Ron Edwards was at NT. Tank Tyler outplayed Edwards with the second unit, and should be given an opportunity to line up with the first team
He won't be the answer there, but he doesn't appear to be nearly as big a question.

Tyler must be in the doghouse because I expected him to get the start. He's really the only NT on the roster that has the potential to really help this team, though I think his future is probably not long with the Chiefs. As soon as they bring in someone next year, Tank's either the backup or hits the streets. Unless something dramatic happens, which I doubt.

Our situation at WR appearss to be a fluid situation and a continuing work in progress.

I expect that to continue through the end of next year's training camp, if not 2011.

milkman
08-19-2009, 11:55 AM
I'm glad I wasn't just "seeing" things. It's odd to me that this thread had 126 replies before anyone mentioned the play of Harris & Brown (me).

As for Harris being an UDFA, on one hand, I'm surprised that he was undrafted because he played so damn well but on the other, when guys like Brian Waters and Ryan Lilja are undrafted, it just goes to show that you don't have to spend first or early second day picks on a guard.

I'll be watching both guys closely against Minnesota, though they likely won't see any time against their first team d-line. But, I do want to see consistency and if they both show that, the Chiefs may have part of their future offensive line already in place. I'm pretty stoked about both players, especially Harris because it's been a long time since we've had a good, young, consistent offensive line.

Give you somthing to think about.

Hypothetically, Brown and Harris show up the same in the next couple of preseason games the way they did against the Texans, Richardson wins the RT job.

What do you do.

You have Niswanger and Ghiaciuc at center, Goff and Waters at guard, Richardson and Albert at the tackles, and Taylor as a backup.

Do you risk putting either Brown or Harris on the PS?
Do you go into the regular season with 10 O-Linemen.

Or do you cut McIntosh and go into the regular season with 9 O-Linemen?

KCUnited
08-19-2009, 12:04 PM
Give you somthing to think about.

Hypothetically, Brown and Harris show up the same in the next couple of preseason games the way they did against the Texans, Richardson wins the RT job.

What do you do.

You have Niswanger and Ghiaciuc at center, Goff and Waters at guard, Richardson and Albert at the tackles, and Taylor as a backup.

Do you risk putting either Brown or Harris on the PS?
Do you go into the regular season with 10 O-Linemen.

Or do you cut McIntosh and go into the regular season with 9 O-Linemen?
I didn't dvr the game and can't remember, but was Harris playing LG? I don't think we can cut McInwhiff as he is 1 of 2 RTs we got. I would say Brown is in competition with Washington for backup RG. Harris in competition with Wade Smith for backup LG.

wasi
08-19-2009, 12:14 PM
I would say Brown is in competition with Washington for backup RG.

not much of a competition at this point considering Washington hasn't practiced yet.

Chief Faithful
08-19-2009, 12:24 PM
I still can't understand why the Chiefs didn't draft a center and move the 'Wanger to guard. He was far more effective as a right guard than as a center. Let's just hope that the Chiefs solidify the right guard position after Friday (whether it be Brown or Goff - And I'm fully against Goff at this point) because maybe some consistent play at right guard will help the 'Wanger, which is something he did not have last year.




I am so pleased someone else has made this observation. The single reason I am not down on Niswanger was do to the play of Jones. I am of the opinion Jones was the worst guard in the NFL in 2008 and the worst guard in Chiefs history. The fact Jones was not catapulted off the roster and into the ocean depths after last years preseason was absolute proof that Herm had no business being an NFL HC. And I am still stunned he was inserted as the starting RG before he had played a single down at that position. I believe Jones made both Niswanger and McFat look worse then they were and neither needed any help.

Buehler445
08-19-2009, 12:25 PM
Give you somthing to think about.

Hypothetically, Brown and Harris show up the same in the next couple of preseason games the way they did against the Texans, Richardson wins the RT job.

What do you do.

You have Niswanger and Ghiaciuc at center, Goff and Waters at guard, Richardson and Albert at the tackles, and Taylor as a backup.

Do you risk putting either Brown or Harris on the PS?
Do you go into the regular season with 10 O-Linemen.

Or do you cut McIntosh and go into the regular season with 9 O-Linemen?

Cut Sackintosh. If BOTH Richardson AND Albert get hurt, he'll probably still be available.

Or maybe stick Brown at RT. Maybe. No idea how he has looked, but that is what he did in college.
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Chocolate Hog
08-19-2009, 12:35 PM
Cut Sackintosh. If BOTH Richardson AND Albert get hurt, he'll probably still be available.

Or maybe stick Brown at RT. Maybe. No idea how he has looked, but that is what he did in college.
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I guarntee you if Mcintosh is cut a team will sign him.

DaneMcCloud
08-19-2009, 01:08 PM
Give you somthing to think about.

Hypothetically, Brown and Harris show up the same in the next couple of preseason games the way they did against the Texans, Richardson wins the RT job.

What do you do.

You have Niswanger and Ghiaciuc at center, Goff and Waters at guard, Richardson and Albert at the tackles, and Taylor as a backup.

Do you risk putting either Brown or Harris on the PS?
Do you go into the regular season with 10 O-Linemen.

Or do you cut McIntosh and go into the regular season with 9 O-Linemen?

IMO, you cut Ghiacuic most certainly. For starters, Waters can slide over to center if needed. If Brown & Harris continue their play, I think you cut FcIntosh, knowing that Herb Taylor could slide into left tackle, right tackle or even right guard if needed.

Goff, I'm on the fence about. I'm clearly not a fan and would prefer that the Chiefs start Brown, if he continues to play well. The Chiefs aren't going anywhere this year and getting experience for Brown would be helpful heading into next year. If he struggles mightily, Goff could relieve him for a few games as he gets his head back.

Keeping FcIntosh or Ghiacuic over Harris would really chap my ass, much worse than cutting Lilja and keeping Richard Smith or Kevin Samson or Brett Williams.

Buehler445
08-19-2009, 01:39 PM
IMO, you cut Ghiacuic most certainly. For starters, Waters can slide over to center if needed. If Brown & Harris continue their play, I think you cut FcIntosh, knowing that Herb Taylor could slide into left tackle, right tackle or even right guard if needed.

Goff, I'm on the fence about. I'm clearly not a fan and would prefer that the Chiefs start Brown, if he continues to play well. The Chiefs aren't going anywhere this year and getting experience for Brown would be helpful heading into next year. If he struggles mightily, Goff could relieve him for a few games as he gets his head back.

Keeping FcIntosh or Ghiacuic over Harris would really chap my ass, much worse than cutting Lilja and keeping Richard Smith or Kevin Samson or Brett Williams.

Ah. Forgot about Waters once playing C. I was thinking one player could take Niswanger's spot if he went down, but couldn't remember who had experience there.

I agree with your last statement IF they continue to play well
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