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View Full Version : U.S. Issues Man carrying assault weapon attends Obama protest


2bikemike
08-17-2009, 11:08 PM
I didn't see this posted anywhere and was surprised that somebody here didn't raise a stink.



PHOENIX About a dozen people carrying guns, including one with a military-style rifle, milled among protesters outside the convention center where President Barack Obama was giving a speech Monday the latest incident in which protesters have openly displayed firearms near the president.

Gun-rights advocates say they're exercising their constitutional right to bear arms and protest, while those who argue for more gun control say it could be a disaster waiting to happen.

Phoenix police said the gun-toters at Monday's event, including the man carrying an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle slung over his shoulder, didn't need permits. No crimes were committed, and no one was arrested.

The man with the rifle declined to be identified but told The Arizona Republic that he was carrying the assault weapon because he could. "In Arizona, I still have some freedoms," he said.

Phoenix police Detective J. Oliver, who monitored the man at the downtown protest, said police also wanted to make sure no one decided to harm him.

"Just by his presence and people seeing the rifle and people knowing the president was in town, it sparked a lot of emotions," Oliver said. "We were keeping peace on both ends."

Last week, during Obama's health care town hall in Portsmouth, N.H., a man carrying a sign reading "It is time to water the tree of liberty" stood outside with a pistol strapped to his leg.

"It's a political statement," he told The Boston Globe. "If you don't use your rights, then you lose your rights."

Police asked the man to move away from school property, but he was not arrested.

Fred Solop, a Northern Arizona University political scientist, said the incidents in New Hampshire and Arizona could signal the beginning of a disturbing trend.

"When you start to bring guns to political rallies, it does layer on another level of concern and significance," Solop said. "It actually becomes quite scary for many people. It creates a chilling effect in the ability of our society to carry on honest communication."

He said he's never heard of someone bringing an assault weapon near a presidential event. "The larger the gun, the more menacing the situation," he said.

Phoenix was Obama's last stop on a four-day tour of western states, including Montana and Colorado.

Authorities in Montana said they received no reports of anyone carrying firearms during Obama's health care town hall near Bozeman on Friday. About 1,000 people both for and against Obama converged at a protest area near the Gallatin Field Airport hangar where the event took place. One person accused of disorderly conduct was detained and released, according to the Gallatin Airport Authority.

Heather Benjamin of Denver's Mesa County sheriff's department, the lead agency during Obama's visit there, said no one was arrested.

Arizona is an "open-carry" state, which means anyone legally allowed to have a firearm can carry it in public as long as it's visible. Only someone carrying a concealed weapon is required to have a permit.

Paul Helmke, president of the Washington, D.C.-based Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, said people should not be allowed to bring guns to events where Obama is.

"To me, this is craziness," he said. "When you bring a loaded gun, particularly a loaded assault rifle, to any political event, but particularly to one where the president is appearing, you're just making the situation dangerous for everyone."

He said people who bring guns to presidential events are distracting the Secret Service and law enforcement from protecting the president. "The more guns we see at more events like this, there's more potential for something tragic happening," he said.

Secret Service spokesman Ed Donovan said armed demonstrators in open-carry states such as Arizona and New Hampshire have little impact on security plans for the president.

"In both cases, the subject was not entering our site or otherwise attempting to," Donovan said. "They were in a designated public viewing area. The main thing to know is that they would not have been allowed inside with a weapon."

Representatives of the National Rifle Association did not return calls for comment.

orange
08-17-2009, 11:10 PM
Hmmm.

These Arizona authorities need to learn their own laws, it seems.

A. A person commits misconduct involving weapons by knowingly: ...

10. Unless specifically authorized by law, entering any public establishment or attending any public event and carrying a deadly weapon on his person after a reasonable request by the operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event or the sponsor's agent to remove his weapon and place it in the custody of the operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event for temporary and secure storage of the weapon pursuant to section 13-3102.01; or

Arizona Revised Statutes 13-3102 Misconduct involving weapons; defenses; classification; definitions

http://law.justia.com/arizona/codes/title13/03102.html

The sponsors of the event should have asked them to disarm.

kcfanXIII
08-17-2009, 11:17 PM
anybody willing to carry a weapon in plain sight is not going to use it to try to kill the POUSA.

KILLER_CLOWN
08-17-2009, 11:21 PM
Strange that these things are only happening with Obama in office, I can't seem to recall them happening under Bush or Clinton.

BucEyedPea
08-17-2009, 11:36 PM
Strange that these things are only happening with Obama in office, I can't seem to recall them happening under Bush or Clinton.

agent provocateurs....in order to take all guns away? :hmmm:

alanm
08-18-2009, 12:01 AM
Hmmm.

These Arizona authorities need to learn their own laws, it seems.
A. A person commits misconduct involving weapons by knowingly: ...

10. Unless specifically authorized by law, entering any public establishment or attending any public event and carrying a deadly weapon on his person after a reasonable request by the operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event or the sponsor's agent to remove his weapon and place it in the custody of the operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event for temporary and secure storage of the weapon pursuant to section 13-3102.01; or

Arizona Revised Statutes 13-3102 Misconduct involving weapons; defenses; classification; definitions

http://law.justia.com/arizona/codes/title13/03102.htmlThe sponsors of the event should have asked them to disarm.I know the bolded part is a little vague but I would think the spirit of the law means inside a building.

wild1
08-18-2009, 12:08 AM
When the resident socialist groups have rallies, they normally have them at the state capitol here, and the opposition will often be open carrying. I don't see why this is any different. They aren't breaking any laws. You can carry any weapon you want in most places I think

orange
08-18-2009, 12:15 AM
I know the bolded part is a little vague but I would think the spirit of the law means inside a building.

I don't think so. They define it:

2. "Public event" means a specifically named or sponsored event of limited duration either conducted by a public entity or conducted by a private entity with a permit or license granted by a public entity. Public event does not include an unsponsored gathering of people in a public place.

I know they require permits for outdoor demonstrations, parades, etc., in most cities; I assume Phoenix does, too. I don't know if this rally was sponsored, but if it was, I stand by my original post.


They also make an exception which specifically refers to outdoor areas:

G. Subsection A, paragraph 10 of this section shall not apply to shooting ranges or shooting events, hunting areas or similar locations or activities.

2bikemike
08-18-2009, 12:48 AM
Hmmm.

These Arizona authorities need to learn their own laws, it seems.

A. A person commits misconduct involving weapons by knowingly: ...

10. Unless specifically authorized by law, entering any public establishment or attending any public event and carrying a deadly weapon on his person after a reasonable request by the operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event or the sponsor's agent to remove his weapon and place it in the custody of the operator of the establishment or the sponsor of the event for temporary and secure storage of the weapon pursuant to section 13-3102.01; or

Arizona Revised Statutes 13-3102 Misconduct involving weapons; defenses; classification; definitions

http://law.justia.com/arizona/codes/title13/03102.html

The sponsors of the event should have asked them to disarm.

Nobody must of asked him to surrender his weapon. Probably didn't want to make a big deal of it.

orange
08-18-2009, 07:12 PM
Man Who Brought Assault Rifle To Obama Rally Was Part Of Radio Stunt

Huffington Post | Lila Shapiro
First Posted: 08-18-09 05:09 PM | Updated: 08-18-09 06:58 PM

On Monday, a dozen people packing heat -- including at least one man carrying a semi-automatic assault rifle -- were spotted at a pro-health care rally next to the convention where President Obama was speaking. While it appeared at the time to be a random incident, similar to several other gun sightings at health care events, it's become clear today that this time the gun show was at least partially planned.

The man with the semi-automatic (referred to in interviews as "Chris," no last name) was spotted at the protest by CNN news cameras, in the middle of a Q&A. Today, his interviewer -- Ernest Hancock of conservative talk radio show Declare Your Independence With Ernest Hancock -- went on CNN and explained to host Rick Sanchez that he and Chris were actually in the middle of a radio broadcast. Hancock, also packing heat at the rally, had invited Chris to come down the protest with his rifle to be interviewed. The two men had known each other for two years, through their work for presidential hopeful Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas).

During the segment on CNN, Rick Sanchez said, "the more we look into this, the more it appears that it was really planned." Hancock concurred: "Oh, it's more planned than you think." In addition to scheduling the interview, Hancock had also informed the local police force.

As the interview continued, Rick Sanchez loudly exclaimed, "This was a publicity stunt!"

"Oh absolutely," Hancock responded.

Sanchez pushed on, "isn't there something terribly disingenuous about putting people on like that? And isn't there also something a little bit... dangerous about playing these kinda games--"

"Oh, it's not a game," Chris interjected.

"---with what I imagine is a loaded weapon," Sanchez continued.

"We know what we're up against," Hancock continued. "We're up against a tyrannical government that will rob the next generation as long as they can get away with it."

Although Chris and Hancock were conducting their interview at a health care rally, their discussion focused on guns.

"Is it your advocacy that by having guns here we're probably all safer?" Hancock asked. Chris "absolutely" agreed. He then went on to explain how he was always armed, even when riding his motorcycle, though not always when he showered: "Sometimes when I take a shower I set it down on the sink."

Chris is also featured in a YouTube video produced by the libertarian group Freedom's Phoenix. In this video he expounds further on his right to bear arms. He also explains that he is "absolutely totally against health care... health care in this way, in this manner, stealing it from people. I don't think that's appropriate."

Despite being heavily-armed at all times, Chris didn't seem to have violent intentions. At the beginning of the video, someone asks Chris whether he plans to "water the tree of liberty." Chris responded, "I hope not."

This is a reference to a Jefferson quote, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Another gun bearing protester in New Hampshire, William Kostric, was holding a sign with that same Jefferson quote. He apparently served as an inspiration to the two men. From Hancock's interview on CNN: "It was Thursday that I called and talked to Al Ramirez, the representative from the Phoenix police department, and we were discussing -- we've been around this rhetoric that was building up around William Kostric, who did this in New Hampshire."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/18/right-wing-radio-host-sta_n_262559.html

banyon
08-18-2009, 07:17 PM
NO DAMN IT THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO POINT ROCKET LAUNCHERS DIRECTLY AT OBAMA'S FACE IF THEY WANT TO IT'S THEIR 2ND AMENDMENT RIGHT! THE AMENDMENT SAYS NO LAW CAN TAKE AWAY MY RIGHT TO DO WHAT I WANT WITH MY WEAPONS!

Taco John
08-18-2009, 07:19 PM
NO DAMN IT THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO POINT ROCKET LAUNCHERS DIRECTLY AT OBAMA'S FACE IF THEY WANT TO IT'S THEIR 2ND AMENDMENT RIGHT! THE AMENDMENT SAYS NO LAW CAN TAKE AWAY MY RIGHT TO DO WHAT I WANT WITH MY WEAPONS!



Another strawman obliterated.

banyon
08-18-2009, 07:23 PM
Another strawman obliterated.

It wasn't literal.

KILLER_CLOWN
08-18-2009, 09:26 PM
NO DAMN IT THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO POINT ROCKET LAUNCHERS DIRECTLY AT OBAMA'S FACE IF THEY WANT TO IT'S THEIR 2ND AMENDMENT RIGHT! THE AMENDMENT SAYS NO LAW CAN TAKE AWAY MY RIGHT TO DO WHAT I WANT WITH MY WEAPONS!

We've another conspiracy nut on our hands. :eek:

2bikemike
08-18-2009, 11:08 PM
NO DAMN IT THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO POINT ROCKET LAUNCHERS DIRECTLY AT OBAMA'S FACE IF THEY WANT TO IT'S THEIR 2ND AMENDMENT RIGHT! THE AMENDMENT SAYS NO LAW CAN TAKE AWAY MY RIGHT TO DO WHAT I WANT WITH MY WEAPONS!

Getting a little carried away there aren't you? No self respecting responsible gun owner is out pointing there firearms at anybody unless they're going to defend themselves.

People should be able to excercise their rights. And if it happens at an Obama rally so be it. People are getting fed up with having their rights trampled. This was just a way to make a statement.

banyon
08-18-2009, 11:18 PM
Getting a little carried away there aren't you? No self respecting responsible gun owner is out pointing there firearms at anybody unless they're going to defend themselves.

People should be able to excercise their rights. And if it happens at an Obama rally so be it. People are getting fed up with having their rights trampled. This was just a way to make a statement.

quite the statement

kcfanXIII
08-19-2009, 01:13 AM
the second amendment exists to protect the rest of them. or perhaps you would prefer to be unarmed so they can just taze us, and put us in camps?