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View Full Version : Chiefs Anyone else worried about the weight loss?


SenselessChiefsFan
08-18-2009, 08:43 AM
LJ looks like a beast.... great.

Bowe looks like he is in great shape.... terrific.

The thing that worries me is that I was looking at the defensive and offensive lines and they are noticeably lighter.

I am somewhat concerned about the offensive line, but depending on the blocking, lighter may be better.

The biggest concern, for me, is the defensive line. Especially given the fact that the Chiefs are going with a 3-4. You really want those guys up front to occupy blockers. I am not sure that having them lose that much weight is the best thing.

I understand that they did not finish games well and the better the shape.... the better the condition, the better able they are to finish games.

I am just worried that this defensive line will get pushed around.

Just wondering if anyone else is worried.

Ari Chi3fs
08-18-2009, 08:47 AM
Oh, you mean pushed around like they were on Saturday night?

Don't worry... all is fine.

http://www.sculu.com/wp-content/plugins/wp-o-matic/cache/40ea3_iraqi_information_minister_small680_medium.jpg

jidar
08-18-2009, 08:51 AM
It could be a concern, but I assume with all of the weight training they do that they are also keeping up their protein so most of the weight loss should be just body fat.
I really don't think it's a given that if you add 20 lbs of fat to a guy that he is harder to push around. Muscle on the other hand...

Consistent1
08-18-2009, 09:00 AM
I think Haley kind of set this question up to be asked by repeating the weight loss and conditioning stuff so much. The slightest rough patch (one preseason game...lol) and people look at it. If the conditioning is strong and the weight room work is there, I would rather have that power and stamina over 5-10 extra pounds. If a lineman is benching 315 for a bunch of reps and squatting like a mad-man he will be able to move guys out of his way regardless. I don't think the weight loss is a problem. With all the camp work they can all eat like crazy now anyway to keep up the power. If anything, my belief is that Haley avoided talking about many other things by talking about losing pounds and conditioning.

wasi
08-18-2009, 10:32 AM
If you listen to the Sirius NFL radio interview on kcchiefs.com Haley says he learned about the importance of conditioning from Parcells. Parcells believed the offseason program was important to get the players into training camp in shape rather than wait until training camp to get them in shape. It makes sense really because you can spent time doing football drills rather than getting players in shape.

So on the one hand we have Herms way where players were are apparently out of shape. The result 9-7, 4-12 and 2-14.

On the the other hand we have Parcells way where players are expected to stay in shape year round. The result speaks for itself (whether Haley is successful in other aspects of being HC is unknown of course).

I think it's a non-issue.

nychief
08-18-2009, 10:33 AM
no

Chiefnj2
08-18-2009, 10:57 AM
On the the other hand we have Parcells way where players are expected to stay in shape year round. The result speaks for itself (whether Haley is successful in other aspects of being HC is unknown of course).

I think it's a non-issue.

I don't recall Parcells being so centered on actual weight like Haley has been. If you look at the current Dolphins OL they have a lot of big guys between 315 and 350lbs.

salame
08-18-2009, 11:22 AM
I don't recall Parcells being so centered on actual weight like Haley has been. If you look at the current Dolphins OL they have a lot of big guys between 315 and 350lbs.

and they are running a totally different offense than we are

wasi
08-18-2009, 11:30 AM
I don't recall Parcells being so centered on actual weight like Haley has been. If you look at the current Dolphins OL they have a lot of big guys between 315 and 350lbs.

I doubt Haley would be making such a big deal about it if the total number of pounds was closer to the number a professional football team "should" be loosing over the offseason. IIRC, the number was roughly double what a Haley pinned as a successful conditioning program.

Personally, I'm excited to see the results on the field.

Chiefnj2
08-18-2009, 11:36 AM
and they are running a totally different offense than we are

One that actually opens holes for running backs?

Casselvania
08-18-2009, 11:49 AM
I like it. I feel like Haley will have these guys in great shape. So we can finish 4th quarters. Something we couldn't do with Herm here.

DaWolf
08-18-2009, 12:04 PM
Not really. They're asking the guys who need to be lighter (IE McBride, making switch to LB) to be lighter. They're also asking guys to be in shape. So if you need your linemen to pull and run and have endurance, then get them in shape. They're not asking guys who are expected to have size to lose weight necessarily, just be in shape.

Why do you think Herm Edwards teams had so many injuries?

salame
08-18-2009, 12:05 PM
One that actually opens holes for running backs?

well arizona didn't really feel the need to run last year
so I think we have a lot of that coming out way this year

Chiefnj2
08-18-2009, 12:49 PM
well arizona didn't really feel the need to run last year
so I think we have a lot of that coming out way this year

I'm sure Arizona would have liked to have been able to run the ball. Every team does.

Buehler445
08-18-2009, 04:51 PM
No. It is not "losing weight". It is avoiding being a worthless out of shape piece of fucking shit.

Football players are athletes. You can't be an athlete if your a worthless out of shape piece of fucking shit.

Being fat just happens to correspond with being a worthless out of shape pice of fucking shit.

I'm sure there are other metics Haley could have used to show that the worthless out of shape pieces of fucking shit are becoming less worthless out of shape pieces of fucking shit. For instance I'm sure some of the players have better oxygen capacity, lower blood pressure and heart rate, greater cardiovasular endurance,a lower Body Mass Index, and greater performance in strength training now that those players are not worthless out of shape pieces of fucking shit.

I personally don't want any worthless out of shape pieces of fucking shit (except maybe punter and kicker) on my team.
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Mecca
08-18-2009, 04:55 PM
No. It is not "losing weight". It is avoiding being a worthless out of shape piece of fucking shit.

Football players are athletes. You can't be an athlete if your a worthless out of shape piece of fucking shit.

Being fat just happens to correspond with being a worthless out of shape pice of fucking shit.

I'm sure there are other metics Haley could have used to show that the worthless out of shape pieces of fucking shit are becoming less worthless out of shape pieces of fucking shit. For instance I'm sure some of the players have better oxygen capacity, lower blood pressure and heart rate, greater cardiovasular endurance,a lower Body Mass Index, and greater performance in strength training now that those players are not worthless out of shape pieces of fucking shit.

I personally don't want any worthless out of shape pieces of fucking shit (except maybe punter and kicker) on my team.
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3-4 lineman are suppose to be big fat guys...

By what you are saying Ted Washington was a worthless piece of shit, yet the Pats wouldn't have won that bowl without him....

googlegoogle
08-18-2009, 05:18 PM
I think Haley kind of set this question up to be asked by repeating the weight loss and conditioning stuff so much. The slightest rough patch (one preseason game...lol) and people look at it. If the conditioning is strong and the weight room work is there, I would rather have that power and stamina over 5-10 extra pounds. If a lineman is benching 315 for a bunch of reps and squatting like a mad-man he will be able to move guys out of his way regardless. I don't think the weight loss is a problem. With all the camp work they can all eat like crazy now anyway to keep up the power. If anything, my belief is that Haley avoided talking about many other things by talking about losing pounds and conditioning.

yes, this

Buehler445
08-18-2009, 06:08 PM
3-4 lineman are suppose to be big fat guys...

By what you are saying Ted Washington was a worthless piece of shit, yet the Pats wouldn't have won that bowl without him....

3-4 lineman can play the game. The worthless out of shape fucking pieces of shit on our team get no push, rush, ir have any consistency in the 4th. Just because the worthless out of shape fucking pieces of shit on our team are fat fucks does not make them viable lineman. Lining up a viable lineman and making him condition will NOT deteriorate his skills.

I bet Washington was in better shape than the worthless out of shape pieces of fucking shit we had at the beginning of OTAs. If he wasn't, running wasn't going to make him worse.
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Mecca
08-18-2009, 06:09 PM
Ted Washington weighed like 400lbs...he just stood there and no one could move him.

Vince Wilfork is really fat too, it's kind of required for his position.

Buehler445
08-18-2009, 06:13 PM
Ted Washington weighed like 400lbs...he just stood there and no one could move him.

Vince Wilfork is really fat too, it's kind of required for his position.

No it isn't. I'm at a restaurant and there is a dude at the next table that is north of 450. Has to be. He is NOT a nose tackle. It really surprises me that you think that Haley making these guys GET IN SHAPE to PLAY A SPORT will make them worse. Unless you're just arging to argue.
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wasi
08-18-2009, 06:15 PM
3-4 lineman are suppose to be big fat guys...

By what you are saying Ted Washington was a worthless piece of shit, yet the Pats wouldn't have won that bowl without him....

Good point but it's a different set of circumstances. Haley is trying to change the culture and philosophy of the football team. It's as much about conditioning as it is about accountability and consistancy in what your doing.

The Patriots were a successful franchise with a winning culture. The fundamentals were already established and the atmosphere of players being professionals was there.

Mecca
08-18-2009, 06:20 PM
No it isn't. I'm at a restaurant and there is a dude at the next table that is north of 450. Has to be. He is NOT a nose tackle. It really surprises me that you think that Haley making these guys GET IN SHAPE to PLAY A SPORT will make them worse. Unless you're just arging to argue.
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No, I'm not. If you think they're gonna run some NT out there who's in great shape and weighs 310 and be successful that isn't gonna happen.

keg in kc
08-18-2009, 06:30 PM
First of all, why are we still talking about nose tackles like we're playing a 3-4? We sure didn't play a 3-4 on Saturday. We won't be playing a 3-4 all year. It's 4-3 under all the way, and we've seen it now with our own eyes. Let's worry about a 3-4 NT when we actually play a 3-4, be that in 2010 or 2011 or whenever. It's not all that relevant now.

Second of all, why would I worry about the weight loss? They got pushed around last year when they were fat and soft. What, are they going to get pushed around more or something now that they're stronger and leaner? Good grief. It's not like they going to go from worst to...uh...worster? Is that a word?

I think it's a good thing, personally. My guess is the team was in terrible shape when Haley got here. They're used to an offseason and training camp under Herm where conditioning apparently didn't matter all that much. Well, those days are over. And as far as results go, if anything, I thought the d-lines looked better on Saturday than they had in years.

Chiefnj2
08-18-2009, 09:18 PM
Keg,

what makes you think it was a 43 under? Baldinger kept making comments about them playing a 34.

keg in kc
08-18-2009, 09:24 PM
Where Vrabel and Hali were playing and what they were doing.

Bwana
08-18-2009, 09:38 PM
Where Vrabel and Hali were playing and what they were doing.

Bingo

DTLB58
08-18-2009, 10:06 PM
Keg,

what makes you think it was a 43 under? Baldinger kept making comments about them playing a 34.

I was looking for an article with Clancy I read a while back breaking down the 3-4,4-3 and under very specifically but I can't find it back.

I did find this though.

Glenn Dorsey. Dorsey was drafted as a 4-3 DT for the Chiefs. In some cases, he is considered a special DT called the “Under Tackle” (UT). These “Under Tackles” are DT’s, but possess rare ability to use quick and agile moves to get to the QB. When they run(or ran) the 4-3, Dorsey was a perfect counter part to Tank Tyler, the 4-3 NT, but in a 3-4, Dorsey is almost useless. At 6-1 and only 290 pounds, Dorsey is merely too undersized to be a 3-4 DE. Most 3-4 DE’s are at least 6-3 (if not taller) because they use their brute strength and arm length (For better terms, Wingspan, meaning length from fingertip to fingertip) to held “block” the Offensive Line so that the LB’s can rush the passer. Dorsey though, does not possess that ability what so ever. There is the exception that the Chiefs may try the 3-4 “Under” scheme at certain moments of the game. The 3-4 Under would do the following. The DE on the opposite side (Jackson) rushes to the outside of the LT, turning his back to the QB. Then, the NT(Tyler) would try to clog up two blocker (The Left Guard and the Center), then the SLB would get in between the TE and the RT. This would leave the opposite 3-4 DE(Dorsey) to go one on one with the Right Guard. The problem with that is, What I just explained, is basically meaning putting Tamba Hali back on the Defensive Line, which is basically the 4-3 Defense all over again. In that instance, why would one even bother with a 3-4?

DTLB58
08-18-2009, 10:12 PM
Keg,

what makes you think it was a 43 under? Baldinger kept making comments about them playing a 34.

Or this,

4-3 over,
The two defensive ends (DE) line up over the offensive tackles. The two defensive tackles (DT) line up over the center and the guard on the strong side. One linebacker (LB) lines up on the line of scrimmage over the tight end. Another lines up off the line, just outside the weak-side defensive end. The third linebacker lines up off the line, but in the gap between the weak-side tackle and end.

When in the Over 4-3, the strength of the defense is on the offense's strong side. With a simple shift to the Under 4-3, the strength of the defense moves to the weak side. To get from the Over formation to the Under, simply shift the defensive tackles over one spot so that they are now over the center and the weak-side guard. The linebacker playing the gap between the weak-side tackle and end then shifts to the gap created between the strong-side tackle and end.

Two cornerbacks (CB), one on each side of the field, line up to cover the wide receivers. There are also two safeties. The exact position of the defensive backs (cornerbacks and safeties) depends on the type of pass coverage they are in.

Chiefnj2
08-18-2009, 10:27 PM
Baldinger kept talking about how the players were adapting to their new roles in the 34 and made specific comments how the DL was doing a good job in the 34.

When watching on tv, how can you tell if it was a 43 under, or a 34 solid?

Buehler445
08-18-2009, 11:15 PM
No, I'm not. If you think they're gonna run some NT out there who's in great shape and weighs 310 and be successful that isn't gonna happen.

If a guy weighs 310 when he is in great shape, he will get pushed around when he is 330. Adding 20 pounds worth of fat won't make you strong, powerful, or allow you to use leverage. Fat does nothing for you as an athlete.
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Chiefnj2
08-19-2009, 08:21 PM
I asked Gretz about KC's defense and he replied that they played both a 34 and 43 under during the game.

AustinChief
08-19-2009, 09:00 PM
I was speaking to a very knowledgable Chiefs fan just awhile ago.. and these comments were bandied about...


i counted 3 plays (at least) when the first team defense was in a TWO-GAP 3-4...so they not only played the 1-gap 3-4 that we expected, as well as the 4-3 under that we expected, they also played straight-up 3-4 the same way Pittsburgh and New England play it



We look to have a very confusing D this year.. unfortunately that means a steep learning curve for our own players.

Noss
08-19-2009, 09:22 PM
Not worried.