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View Full Version : Chiefs Would you trade both 2nd rounders for...


The Bad Guy
08-18-2009, 10:54 AM
Brandon Marshall?

I think I would.

doomy3
08-18-2009, 10:55 AM
Yeah, I think I probably would too.

T-post Tom
08-18-2009, 10:56 AM
donks would never trade him within the division, but makes for a good "what if"... I'd say no. 2 high a price for a "player at risk" :p sorry, had to... ;)

Hydrae
08-18-2009, 10:56 AM
No. There would be nothing but problems between he and Bowe over who should be the #1 receiver and I really don't see either of them in the typical #2 role.

BigMeatballDave
08-18-2009, 10:56 AM
Yes

Fritz88
08-18-2009, 10:57 AM
Brandon Marshall?

I think I would.

given our current situation with WRs...i'll give 2ed, 3rd

LTL
08-18-2009, 10:57 AM
donks would never trade him within the division, but makes for a good "what if"... I'd say no. 2 high a price for a "player at risk" :p sorry, had to... ;)

Yep, wouldn't do it either.

wild1
08-18-2009, 10:58 AM
Don't know. With the off the field stuff.

Cassel, Bowe, and Marshall would be a mean combo though.

Mr. Krab
08-18-2009, 10:58 AM
probably, even though his catch/drop ratio is one of the worst in the league.

Fish
08-18-2009, 11:02 AM
Probably not.

Sure-Oz
08-18-2009, 11:02 AM
hell and yes, id do it for boldin too

tomahawk kid
08-18-2009, 11:03 AM
Yesterday.

Detoxing
08-18-2009, 11:04 AM
No. too much off the field problems. I'd much rather go after Boldin for that kinda price.

CoMoChief
08-18-2009, 11:04 AM
Fuck no.

I'd trade one 2nd and a 3rd. But not two 2nd's

Von Dumbass
08-18-2009, 11:05 AM
probably, even though his catch/drop ratio is one of the worst in the league.

Bowe drops a higher percentage of passes than Marshall does.

Chiefnj2
08-18-2009, 11:06 AM
I'd estimate the value of those two picks to be around 850 points, which could move KC up into the early 20's on draft day.

A #1 WR for the #20 draft pick, or two 2nds to use at OLB/NT/WR/G/C/RT ??? I probably wouldn't, but wouldn't be mad if KC did so. It's a close call.

TheGuardian
08-18-2009, 11:11 AM
Hell no. Marshall is the most overrated WR in the league. He was thrown to more than any WR in the league the last two seasons. He has terribly inflated numbers.

Consistent1
08-18-2009, 11:12 AM
He has had the shaky behavior off the field. That does matter some. I don't think I would do both 2nd's at this point. If he were the one piece needed, for sure. Those 2 picks will be more valuable to the rebuild than he is right now given potential concerns. It is not like he is going to take KC into the playoffs.

DaWolf
08-18-2009, 11:14 AM
No. He has talent but I don't think he has the right makeup for a Pioli/Haley team. Maybe if we were 5-6 years in and a receiver away, you may do it. But not at this point...

Von Dumbass
08-18-2009, 11:15 AM
Remember... You also need to give Brandon Marshall a long term contract that is comparable to what Roddy White got.

BigMeatballDave
08-18-2009, 11:17 AM
Hell no. Marshall is the most overrated WR in the league. He was thrown to more than any WR in the league the last two seasons. He has terribly inflated numbers.He still caught 104 passes last season.

salame
08-18-2009, 11:20 AM
bowe is not as good as brandon marshall

vailpass
08-18-2009, 11:20 AM
No. There would be nothing but problems between he and Bowe over who should be the #1 receiver and I really don't see either of them in the typical #2 role.

Bowe competing with B. Marsh for the #1? Bowe is a #2 or #3 on most NFL teams.

Pestilence
08-18-2009, 11:21 AM
No....

doomy3
08-18-2009, 11:21 AM
Bowe competing with B. Marsh for the #1? Bowe is a #2 or #3 on most NFL teams.

No.

DeezNutz
08-18-2009, 11:23 AM
I would not trade the picks.

And Bowe has the potential to be one of the best WRs in the league, so the talk of him being a #2-#3 on most teams is absurd.

Right now, he's not elite, like Fitz, Johnson, etc., but he's still very solid.

keg in kc
08-18-2009, 11:24 AM
I think I might go for Brandon Marshall to Cleveland and then Braylon Edwards to KC. But then I'm an unabashed Michigan homer.

BigMeatballDave
08-18-2009, 11:24 AM
Bowe competing with B. Marsh for the #1? Bowe is a #2 or #3 on most NFL teams.3? LMAO He caught 86 balls last season. His 2nd season. From shitty Qbs.

vailpass
08-18-2009, 11:24 AM
Really? What other NFL teams would have Bowe as a #1? He would be the #3 or #4 on Denver behind Marshall, Royal and Stokely. He has consistent dropsies which keeps you from the #1 slot.

Chief Chief
08-18-2009, 11:25 AM
Trade two 2nd-rounders for B-Marsh?

Me not think so.

That would be like trading Bernard Pollard (our #2 pick in 2006) and Tony Gonzalez (our 2010 #2 pick from the Falcons for Tony G) for...say WHOOO??

Fuhgedduhbowditt!!

doomy3
08-18-2009, 11:25 AM
Really? What other NFL teams would have Bowe as a #1? He would be the #3 or #4 on Denver behind Marshall, Royal and Stokely. He has consistent dropsies which keeps you from the #1 slot.

:LOL:

LMAOLMAOLMAOLMAOLMAOLMAOLMAOLMAOLMAO

BigMeatballDave
08-18-2009, 11:29 AM
Really? What other NFL teams would have Bowe as a #1? He would be the #3 or #4 on Denver behind Marshall, Royal and Stokely. He has consistent dropsies which keeps you from the #1 slot.LMAO You sir, are a fucking moron.

KCDC
08-18-2009, 11:29 AM
No, let them keep the cancer. His value will drop during the season.

Sanka
08-18-2009, 11:29 AM
Absolutely not.

salame
08-18-2009, 11:30 AM
Do you guys feel the same way about Boldin?

KCDC
08-18-2009, 11:31 AM
Boldin's age worries me, but I would trust Haley's assessment.

BigMeatballDave
08-18-2009, 11:32 AM
Do you guys feel the same way about Boldin?Yes, actually I'd take Boldin over Marsh.

doomy3
08-18-2009, 11:33 AM
In a dream world, I would choose to acquire these guys in this order:

1. Brandon Marshall
2. Braylon Edwards
3. Aquan Boldin

salame
08-18-2009, 11:33 AM
Boldin is 28
Randy Moss is 32

moss has had some damn good years after 28

salame
08-18-2009, 11:33 AM
Yes, actually I'd take Boldin over Marsh.

No I mean do you prefer Bowe over Boldin
some people are such big Chiefs homers that they would rather have bowe than Boldin

BigMeatballDave
08-18-2009, 11:34 AM
Boldin's age worries me, but I would trust Haley's assessment.He turns 28 in October.

Mr. Krab
08-18-2009, 11:34 AM
Do you guys feel the same way about Boldin?
Yes, Boldin is the better receiver by the stats. Boldin's age is really the only issue.

Mr. Krab
08-18-2009, 11:36 AM
Bowe drops a higher percentage of passes than Marshall does.
*sigh* Yes i know, but we aren't talking about Bowe now. Stop being so whiny.

BigMeatballDave
08-18-2009, 11:37 AM
In a dream world, I would choose to acquire these guys in this order:

1. Brandon Marshall
2. Braylon Edwards
3. Aquan BoldinI'd take Boldin way before Edwards. He's still dropping shit in camp. Did you see that drop the other day in their preseson game?

Consistent1
08-18-2009, 11:38 AM
No I mean do you prefer Bowe over Boldin
some people are such big Chiefs homers that they would rather have bowe than Boldin

I would take Boldin over Marshall without question. He is more proven than Bowe also, so I would take him there too. The only reason some don't like him is because he wants more money. Why wouldn't he really? Yes, he is under contract, but all these players lobby for themselves. He practically got his entire face smashed in last year and pretty much came right back and produced. The way Marshall has been a lightning rod, he might not last as long as Boldin will.

cdcox
08-18-2009, 11:40 AM
So you have a 25 yo WR that has consecutive seasons over 1200 yards. Looks like an obvious "yes".

But there are a couple of complicating factors. I don't think he can get full credit for his youth, because head case players don't usually stay with one team long term. The over under has to be right at 3 full seasons before he'll be heading elsewhere, and you won't get any where near two 2nd round picks when he leaves. Do you think he is going to make a difference in terms of post season success within 3 years? If not, you better think twice.

I see one additional negative in that he doesn't really elevate the level of his QB. Statistics on the number of times a WR is thrown to (or "targets") are now available. This allows you to calculate yards/target - how many yards do you expect this WR to gain each time you throw the ball his direction. I think this is a pretty cool stat because it if a receiver drops the ball it is going to hurt their yards per target and if they have really good hands that will be reflected too. It also probably reflects their ability to separate since the completion percentage to wide open receivers is going to be greater than for guys who are barely open. You can also compare yards per target for a particular WR to the yards per attempt for his QB.

The ratio of yards-per-target for Brandon Marshall to yards per attempt for Jay Cutler was 1.03 in 2007 and 0.95 in 2008. This means that Marshall didn't really improve the expected gain of a Jay Cutler pass when he was the target in comparison to other available targets on the team. This is unusual for a #1 WR. This ratio for some of the other top WR in the league:

Steve Smith 1.38
Larry Fitzgerald 1.17
Lee Evans 1.43
TJ Housh 1.25
Reggie Wayne 1.23
Roddy White 1.15
Braylon Edwards 1.24
Calvin Johnson 1.37
Greg Jennings 1.23

His production is great, don't get me wrong. But is he going to make your QB better? Not clear.

I don't think I pull the trigger unless I'm already a playoff team and I think he'll raise me to the next level. I have a feeling he'll be ready to move on before he could contribute to a KC Super Bowl victory.

doomy3
08-18-2009, 11:40 AM
I would take Boldin over Marshall without question. He is more proven than Bowe also, so I would take him there too. The only reason some don't like him is because he wants more money. Why wouldn't he really? Yes, he is under contract, but all these players lobby for themselves. He practically got his entire face smashed in last year and pretty much came right back and produced. The way Marshall has been a lightning rod, he might not last as long as Boldin will.

That's not true, and I haven't seen one person say they don't like Boldin.

I would prefer Marshall or Edwards because they can stretch the field better, are younger, and Boldin has some serious wear and tear on his body after going over the middle so much.

salame
08-18-2009, 11:44 AM
I think we should push hard to get lee evans
I can't believe I forgot about him

Consistent1
08-18-2009, 11:48 AM
That's not true, and I haven't seen one person say they don't like Boldin.

I would prefer Marshall or Edwards because they can stretch the field better, are younger, and Boldin has some serious wear and tear on his body after going over the middle so much.


Good points, but can you rely on those two over several versus boldin who I believe competes like crazy due to pride? I think AB is far from done. Who knows what will happen with Marsh or Braylon. As far as the money thing, I do believe that may not influence YOU, but others feel that way. It's just a judgement call anyway, any of them could suffer some career ending injury. Despite wanting a big contract, I believe that Boldin has more experience and maturity.

Molitoth
08-18-2009, 11:50 AM
Hell no with his attitude and off the field issues.

Just Passin' By
08-18-2009, 11:52 AM
If Pioli felt that Marshall could be follow the "K.C. Way" and the future of the salary cap was known, it would be a tremendous move for the Chiefs to get the guy for just a pair of second rounders. That would give the Chiefs the QB and top two wideouts for years to come. The issue would be money, but the Chiefs have plenty of room under the cap. By waiting until next year to give Marshall the new deal, the team could structure the contract in such a way as to frontload the deal and make it more cap friendly going forward, just in case.

LaChapelle
08-18-2009, 11:58 AM
How often do trouble WRs change their spots? Marshall and Walker seem to alike IMO.
NO -don't forget the hip.

salame
08-18-2009, 11:59 AM
I think the problem is that a lot of people here view Bowe as a "true" number one
I think his absolute ceiling would be Boldin's level of play
which is excellent #2 borderline #1
you have to look at bowe as a young player similarly to the way the Colts used Reggie Wayne he was an excellent #2 behind a "true" #1
If the Chiefs had a better receiving option that Bowe it would be a really great thing for both the offense and Bowe's development.

Mr. Krab
08-18-2009, 12:03 PM
I think the problem is that a lot of people here view Bowe as a "true" number one
I think his absolute ceiling would be Boldin's level of play
which is excellent #2 borderline #1
you have to look at bowe as a young player similarly to the way the Colts used Reggie Wayne he was an excellent #2 behind a "true" #1
If the Chiefs had a better receiving option that Bowe it would be a really great thing for both the offense and Bowe's development.
In reality, having two #2 receivers is probably better for the team. Less headache and more realistic salary implications.

salame
08-18-2009, 12:04 PM
which would be great if the chiefs were in cap trouble
but they have the money to spend
I'm not lobbying for Marshall specifically
but I think they need a better option at #1

Brock
08-18-2009, 12:05 PM
If Bowe isn't a 1, what is he?

salame
08-18-2009, 12:06 PM
If Bowe isn't a 1, what is he?

I think the problem is that a lot of people here view Bowe as a "true" number one
I think his absolute ceiling would be Boldin's level of play
which is excellent #2 borderline #1
you have to look at bowe as a young player similarly to the way the Colts used Reggie Wayne he was an excellent #2 behind a "true" #1
If the Chiefs had a better receiving option that Bowe it would be a really great thing for both the offense and Bowe's development.

suds79
08-18-2009, 12:07 PM
Marshall is a headcase & cancer if I've ever seen it. I'm sure he'll find a way to work himself out of the league with off the field problems sooner or later.

Brock
08-18-2009, 12:07 PM
I view Bowe as a true number one. There isn't any reason not to.

Chiefnj2
08-18-2009, 12:08 PM
I think the problem is that a lot of people here view Bowe as a "true" number one
I think his absolute ceiling would be Boldin's level of play
which is excellent #2 borderline #1
you have to look at bowe as a young player similarly to the way the Colts used Reggie Wayne he was an excellent #2 behind a "true" #1
If the Chiefs had a better receiving option that Bowe it would be a really great thing for both the offense and Bowe's development.

Why isn't Bowe a true #1?

salame
08-18-2009, 12:10 PM
He lacks deep speed
He drops a lot of balls
He takes plays off (if you don't believe this take a look at the Croyle intentional grounding play and you'll see he never even turns around or finishes his route)
and he has tendencies to become just as bad of a diva as Ochocinco or Marshall
how do you fail to see this?

A lot of the reason he saw as many targets as he did was Tony G drawing the safeties go back and watch some game footage and you will see this

Brock
08-18-2009, 12:12 PM
He lacks deep speed
He drops a lot of balls
He takes plays off (if you don't believe this take a look at the Croyle intentional grounding play and you'll see he never even turns around or finishes his route)
and he has tendencies to become just as bad of a diva as Ochocinco or Marshall
how do you fail to see this?

A lot of the reason he saw as many targets as he did was Tony G drawing the safeties go back and watch some game footage and you will see this

That post is garbage from top to bottom.

vailpass
08-18-2009, 12:15 PM
LMAO You sir, are a ****ing moron.

No need for name calling. Tell you what: you name all the NFL teams on which Bowe would be the #1 WR this year.
For each team you name I'll name 2 where he wouldn't.
I understand you may be biased toward Bowe as he is all you have but do you really believe fact Bowe would start before both Marshall and Royal?

salame
08-18-2009, 12:17 PM
That post is garbage from top to bottom.

I don't think he sucks
but I am not a homer to the point you are where I feel the need to deny the obvious.
He has potential if you raise him up right hence the Reggie Wayne comparison
the colts knew what they were doing is why they never traded Wayne when he started to consistently flash real #1 skills, but his development may not have been as smooth or yielded as good of results if he didn't have time to develop

Brock
08-18-2009, 12:18 PM
I don't think he sucks
but I am not a homer to the point you are where I feel the need to deny the obvious.
He has potential if you raise him up right hence the Reggie Wayne comparison
the colts knew what they were doing is why they never traded Wayne when he started to consistently flash real #1 skills, but his development may not have been as smooth or yielded as good of results if he didn't have time to develop

No, you're not a homer, you're just football illiterate. You're saying he's slow, can't catch, and acts like Ocho Cinco. You're stupidly wrong on all three counts.

salame
08-18-2009, 12:20 PM
No, you're not a homer, you're just football illiterate. You're saying he's slow, can't catch, and acts like Ocho Cinco. You're stupidly wrong on all three counts.

that's laughable

Brock
08-18-2009, 12:20 PM
that's laughable

That's what I said.

cdcox
08-18-2009, 12:21 PM
Bowe is one of the top 25 WR in the league. Therefore he is a legit # 1 WR. He's not elite and I don't think anyone is claiming that he is.

The Bad Guy
08-18-2009, 12:22 PM
Anyone who thinks Bowe is a fringe #2 or even a #3 is a complete moron.

TheGuardian
08-18-2009, 12:23 PM
He lacks deep speed
He drops a lot of balls
He takes plays off (if you don't believe this take a look at the Croyle intentional grounding play and you'll see he never even turns around or finishes his route)
and he has tendencies to become just as bad of a diva as Ochocinco or Marshall
how do you fail to see this?

A lot of the reason he saw as many targets as he did was Tony G drawing the safeties go back and watch some game footage and you will see this

This post IS garbage.

Deep speed is not a requirement for being a great #1 WR. Fitz does NOT have "deep speed." Hell that was a knock on him coming out of college. That he isn't overly fast. And he's not. In fact he generally has DB's glued to him on deep routes but he uses his height and jumping to his advantage.

Bowe takes plays off? You base this off of 1 play in a preseason game? Nice. Great way to establish you know what you're talking about. You obviously don't.

What's funny is you said his ceiling is that of Boldin. Well uh, Boldin is by ALL MEANS a TRUE #1. the only issue with Boldin ever has been his health.

Why the F are so many dumbass fans concerned with "deep speed". It's just a fucking catch phase used by idiot fans that don't know what they are talking about. Getting open has more to do with route running than being fast. Otherwise olympic sprinters would be all-pro WR's from speed alone. We all know that isn't the case. football isn't running fast in a straight line dummy.

DaWolf
08-18-2009, 12:28 PM
This post IS garbage.

Deep speed is not a requirement for being a great #1 WR. Fitz does NOT have "deep speed." Hell that was a knock on him coming out of college. That he isn't overly fast. And he's not. In fact he generally has DB's glued to him on deep routes but he uses his height and jumping to his advantage.

Bowe takes plays off? You base this off of 1 play in a preseason game? Nice. Great way to establish you know what you're talking about. You obviously don't.

What's funny is you said his ceiling is that of Boldin. Well uh, Boldin is by ALL MEANS a TRUE #1. the only issue with Boldin ever has been his health.

Why the F are so many dumbass fans concerned with "deep speed". It's just a ****ing catch phase used by idiot fans that don't know what they are talking about. Getting open has more to do with route running than being fast. Otherwise olympic sprinters would be all-pro WR's from speed alone. We all know that isn't the case. football isn't running fast in a straight line dummy.

Same thing with Jerry Rice or TO or Mike Irvin, they don't have blazing speed, but they know how to get open.

Not that Bowe will ever be confused with Rice. But he has ability, and that's what Haley is trying to get out of him.

IF Bowe never lives up to it, he will be replaced. But right now we have too many holes to be giving up two high draft picks up to try and get another guy, and in the process helping a division rival stock up on even more high draft picks.

It doesn't help that Bowe has been coached until this year by a guy who probably sat back and told him how good he was and never pushed him...

CupidStunt
08-18-2009, 12:33 PM
Anyone who thinks Bowe is a fringe #2 or even a #3 is a complete moron.

vailpass has always been an epic failure, but it's always funny to see new tangents of it.

Colt4540
08-18-2009, 12:34 PM
Not both seconds for Marshall maybe a 2nd and a 3rd. I think I would go for it with Boldin on the other hand.

doomy3
08-18-2009, 12:38 PM
No need for name calling. Tell you what: you name all the NFL teams on which Bowe would be the #1 WR this year.
For each team you name I'll name 2 where he wouldn't.
I understand you may be biased toward Bowe as he is all you have but do you really believe fact Bowe would start before both Marshall and Royal?

Tennessee
Jacksonville
Kansas City
Miami
Baltimore
Minnesota
Chicago
St. Louis
Tampa Bay
New York Jets
New York Giants
Washington
Oakland
San Diego
San Francisco
Dallas

There are several other teams that probably fit into the discussion too like Seattle, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinatti

KCtotheSB
08-18-2009, 12:40 PM
Marshall? Ehhh...nah, too much baggage when you can get an Anquan Boldin for a similar price.

DTLB58
08-18-2009, 12:42 PM
Marshall? Ehhh...nah, too much baggage when you can get an Anquan Boldin for a similar price.

Boldin over Marshall anyday and for more. :thumb:

Fish
08-18-2009, 12:43 PM
I'd rather have Eddie Royal. Much more bang for the buck. More affordable and he'd compliment Bowe better anyway...

Chiefnj2
08-18-2009, 12:47 PM
He lacks deep speed
He drops a lot of balls
He takes plays off (if you don't believe this take a look at the Croyle intentional grounding play and you'll see he never even turns around or finishes his route)
and he has tendencies to become just as bad of a diva as Ochocinco or Marshall
how do you fail to see this?

A lot of the reason he saw as many targets as he did was Tony G drawing the safeties go back and watch some game footage and you will see this

Thanks for responding, and exposing your complete lack of knowledge.

The Bad Guy
08-18-2009, 12:47 PM
Seattle
St. Louis.
San Fran
Tampa
Oakland
Philly
NY Giants
NY Jets
Dallas
Washington
Minnesota
Chicago
Miami
Jacksonville
Tennessee
Baltimore

More than half of the teams in this league he is a #1 on.

The Bad Guy
08-18-2009, 12:48 PM
I'd rather have Eddie Royal. Much more bang for the buck. More affordable and he'd compliment Bowe better anyway...

I 100% agree with you. But no way that Royal is going anywhere.

Mr. Krab
08-18-2009, 12:51 PM
I'd rather have Eddie Royal. Much more bang for the buck. More affordable and he'd compliment Bowe better anyway...
I think i would rather have Royal as well. Yin to Bowe's Yang, err wait that's sounded kinda dirty. :huh:

DaWolf
08-18-2009, 01:11 PM
I 100% agree with you. But no way that Royal is going anywhere.

We have two shots at drafting a guy in the second round next year if we need, just like Royal was. Our new scouts better be up to the task of finding that guy...

Frankie
08-18-2009, 01:11 PM
Brandon Marshall?

I think I would.

No. I like his talent but he sounds like a head case.

Frankie
08-18-2009, 01:12 PM
No. There would be nothing but problems between he and Bowe over who should be the #1 receiver and I really don't see either of them in the typical #2 role.

Good point.

BigMeatballDave
08-18-2009, 02:43 PM
No need for name calling. Tell you what: you name all the NFL teams on which Bowe would be the #1 WR this year.
For each team you name I'll name 2 where he wouldn't.
I understand you may be biased toward Bowe as he is all you have but do you really believe fact Bowe would start before both Marshall and Royal?Bowe has played 2 seasons and has played well. Thoes 2 guys had Cutler throwing to them. Look at the scrubs Bowe has had to catch passes from. Thats why you are a moron.

BigMeatballDave
08-18-2009, 02:44 PM
Anyone who thinks Bowe is a fringe #2 or even a #3 is a complete moron.Thank you!

Mile High Mania
08-18-2009, 02:55 PM
I think Bowe is a good player, he just hasn't had a solid opportunity to show his skills... sure, he's had some drops, but his team and QB haven't been great.

I was scanning through depth charts and the teams below are the ones where I would make the case for Bowe:

Ravens
Bears
Jaguars
Dolphins
Giants
Rams
Raiders
49ers
Bucs
Titans
Vikings * I'm torn on them, right now Berrian is equal or better, worst case

The 10/11 teams above are really the only teams where I see a shot at Bowe being the clear #1 at this point. This year, he has the best shot he's had during his career to show his potential.

beach tribe
08-18-2009, 02:58 PM
I think the problem is that a lot of people here view Bowe as a "true" number one
I think his absolute ceiling would be Boldin's level of play
which is excellent #2 borderline #1
you have to look at bowe as a young player similarly to the way the Colts used Reggie Wayne he was an excellent #2 behind a "true" #1
If the Chiefs had a better receiving option that Bowe it would be a really great thing for both the offense and Bowe's development.

By the end of this season, no one will ever call Bowe a #2 receiver.

doomy3
08-18-2009, 02:58 PM
I think Bowe is a good player, he just hasn't had a solid opportunity to show his skills... sure, he's had some drops, but his team and QB haven't been great.

I was scanning through depth charts and the teams below are the ones where I would make the case for Bowe:

Ravens
Bears
Jaguars
Dolphins
Giants
Rams
Raiders
49ers
Bucs
Titans
Vikings * I'm torn on them, right now Berrian is equal or better, worst case

The 10/11 teams above are really the only teams where I see a shot at Bowe being the clear #1 at this point. This year, he has the best shot he's had during his career to show his potential.

No way is Bernard Berrian anywhere near the same level as Bowe. It's not even close.

And I guess you are claiming Cotchery is a better receiver than Bowe? Crayton for the Cowboys? I think you left some teams off that list...

Von Dumbass
08-18-2009, 02:58 PM
I think Bowe is a good player, he just hasn't had a solid opportunity to show his skills... sure, he's had some drops, but his team and QB haven't been great.

I was scanning through depth charts and the teams below are the ones where I would make the case for Bowe:

Ravens
Bears
Jaguars
Dolphins
Giants
Rams
Raiders
49ers
Bucs
Titans
Vikings * I'm torn on them, right now Berrian is equal or better, worst case

The 10/11 teams above are really the only teams where I see a shot at Bowe being the clear #1 at this point. This year, he has the best shot he's had during his career to show his potential.

I think the Bucs would be a close one as well. Antonio Bryant had a pretty good year last year.

DaneMcCloud
08-18-2009, 03:00 PM
There's no way I'd trade the Chiefs two round two picks in the 2010.

This draft should be loaded with talent and those two picks could go a long way into securing a bright future for the Chiefs franchise.

Brandon Marshall isn't going to help the Chiefs win anything this year and they just don't need his attitude, IMO.

Mile High Mania
08-18-2009, 03:00 PM
No way is Bernard Berrian anywhere near the same level as Bowe. It's not even close.

And I guess you are claiming Cotchery is a better receiver than Bowe? Crayton for the Cowboys? I think you left some teams off that list...

I was looking at teams that didn't have a clear #1 guy at WR that I viewed to be better than Bowe. In time (like 2009 with Cassell), Bowe could distance himself from these guys.

Yes, right now, I think Berrian and Cotchery are better... Crayton is trash.

DaneMcCloud
08-18-2009, 03:00 PM
I think the Bucs would be a close one as well. Antonio Bryant had a pretty good year last year.

Antonio Bryant has been on three different teams and has had several issues. Just because he finally had one good season doesn't mean he's "arrived".

Frazod
08-18-2009, 03:01 PM
Boy, I'd hate to send anything Denver's way except a flaming bag of shit and/or Herm Edwards, but our receiving corps sucks balls and we could really use Marshall.

I think I'd have to swallow a little bit of vomit and make the deal.

BigMeatballDave
08-18-2009, 03:03 PM
I think the Bucs would be a close one as well. Antonio Bryant had a pretty good year last year.He caught 83, Bowe caught 86.

Mile High Mania
08-18-2009, 03:03 PM
Antonio Bryant has been on three different teams and has had several issues. Just because he finally had one good season doesn't mean he's "arrived".

That's what I was thinking, plus he has QB instability in Tampa this year...

Tbone8801
08-18-2009, 03:04 PM
Brandon Marshall?

I think I would.

No, but dude I love your forum pic! I paid for mis-leading information for almost a year, warpaint is worthless!

Micjones
08-18-2009, 03:04 PM
No way is Bernard Berrian anywhere near the same level as Bowe. It's not even close.

Bowe might be my favorite Chief and I'll concede that Berrian is comparable.
He had about 60 fewer yards on half as many catches last year.
He had 7 TD's with only 48 grabs.
That's basically scoring a TD every 7 times he catches the ball.
And an eye-popping 20-yard per catch average.

Is he better? That can be argued, but he's definitely comparable.

BigMeatballDave
08-18-2009, 03:05 PM
Yes, right now, I think Berrian and Cotchery are better... Crayton is trash.:spock: Berrian only caught 48 last season, and Cotchery, 71.

Mile High Mania
08-18-2009, 03:07 PM
Bowe might be my favorite Chief and I'll concede that Berrian is comparable.
He had 80 fewer yards on half as many catches last year.
He had 7 TD's with only 48 catches.
That's basically scoring a TD every 7 times he catches the ball.
And an eye-popping 20-yard per catch average.

Is he better? That can be argued, but he's definitely comparable.

Let's not forget that 10 of Bowe's receptions and his 2nd 100+ receiving game in 2008... came in the meaningless week 17 loss to the Bengals. Stats count, but that big game pushed him over 80 receptions and 1,000 yards.

LTL
08-18-2009, 03:08 PM
What about the Chargers? I know they have Jackson and Chambers but Bowes production has been better than either of those in the 2 years he has been in the league. I wouldn't say either is a clear cut #1.

Mile High Mania
08-18-2009, 03:08 PM
:spock: Berrian only caught 48 last season, and Cotchery, 71.

So, we're just using 2008 as a benchmark?

Mile High Mania
08-18-2009, 03:09 PM
What about the Chargers? I know they have Jackson and Chambers but Bowes production has been better than either of those in the 2 years he has been in the league. I wouldn't say either is a clear cut #1.

True, but I'm not sure Bowe > Jackson, they're both similar.... the potential is certainly there though.

DaneMcCloud
08-18-2009, 03:11 PM
Once Dwayne Bowe has a complimentary wide receiver opposite him (i.e., not a tight end), his numbers will skyrocket.

Mile High Mania
08-18-2009, 03:13 PM
Once Dwayne Bowe has a complimentary wide receiver opposite him (i.e., not a tight end), his numbers will skyrocket.

I don't disagree at all with that one... think of what he might do playing with one of the top 12 WRs, he could really be a phenom.

CupidStunt
08-18-2009, 03:14 PM
Jerricho Cotchery. :LOL:

Berrian is a nice deep threat. Whatever. But Cotchery ... smoke a bowl.

DeezNutz
08-18-2009, 03:15 PM
Boy, I'd hate to send anything Denver's way except a flaming bag of shit and/or Herm Edwards, but our receiving corps sucks balls and we could really use Marshall.

I think I'd have to swallow a little bit of vomit and make the deal.

Why did you feel it necessary to repeat yourself?

(For the record, I don't think Edwards is a piece of shit person, just a very poor coach.)

Mile High Mania
08-18-2009, 03:17 PM
Jerricho Cotchery. :LOL:

Berrian is a nice deep threat. Whatever. But Cotchery ... smoke a bowl.

I don't think some of you guys watch other teams. Look at the numbers and what he does on the field. 2008 was a down year compared to 06-07.

Right now, I like Cotchery over Bowe.

Micjones
08-18-2009, 03:19 PM
Let's not forget that 10 of Bowe's receptions and his 2nd 100+ receiving game in 2008... came in the meaningless week 17 loss to the Bengals. Stats count, but that big game pushed him over 80 receptions and 1,000 yards.

Okay, now don't get crazy.
Lots of situations account for stats being amassed.
If we truly wanted to knitpick I bet we could adjust the stats of many of the aforementioned WR's.

Ultimately... These numbers were posted in the NFL against the best competition in the world. Situations that allow for "stat padding" (if it can be called that) benefit all players. Not just Bowe.

Reerun_KC
08-18-2009, 03:20 PM
Why did you feel it necessary to repeat yourself?

(For the record, I don't think Edwards is a piece of shit person, just a very poor coach.)


Get over it, it happens, its called life.....

LTL
08-18-2009, 03:20 PM
True, but I'm not sure Bowe > Jackson, they're both similar.... the potential is certainly there though.


Both are close imo. Both have the same number of TDs, very close in yds, Bowe has more receptions, but Jackson smokes him when it comes to Y/R.

Micjones
08-18-2009, 03:21 PM
Right now, I like Cotchery over Bowe.

And right now you're crazy.

Brock
08-18-2009, 03:21 PM
Cotchery over Bowe? Jesus, that's stupid.

|Zach|
08-18-2009, 03:21 PM
The guy is a drama queen.

Halfcan
08-18-2009, 03:22 PM
no way-he is a cry baby and trouble maker

Mr. Krab
08-18-2009, 03:25 PM
We don't know whether Bowe is a true #1 year. I think it's safe to say he's a solid #2 with a chance to be a #1 if he works.

DeezNutz
08-18-2009, 03:29 PM
Get over it, it happens, its called life.....

What?

What am I getting over?

Mile High Mania
08-18-2009, 03:32 PM
Cotchery over Bowe? Jesus, that's stupid.

Enh, not really... Bowe should end up with the better career, but we'll see. He has improved year over year, so that's good.

Micjones
08-18-2009, 03:33 PM
We don't know whether Bowe is a true #1 year. I think it's safe to say he's a solid #2 with a chance to be a #1 if he works.

I don't think there's any question that he's a #1.
Is he elite yet? No. But definitely a #1.

Brock
08-18-2009, 03:35 PM
2 years of 1000 yard receiving with absolute ass at QB. Yeah, I think it's safe to call him a number one.

Mr. Krab
08-18-2009, 03:37 PM
I don't think there's any question that he's a #1.
Is he elite yet? No. But definitely a #1.I guess it depends what you consider a #1. I like to think that a #1 is supposed to be ELITE.

Mile High Mania
08-18-2009, 03:38 PM
2 years of 1000 yard receiving with absolute ass at QB. Yeah, I think it's safe to call him a number one.

Technically speaking, he was 5 yards shy of that in year 1...

Mile High Mania
08-18-2009, 03:38 PM
I guess it depends what you consider a #1. I like to think that a #1 is supposed to be ELITE.

Agreed, reality says there are 32 #1 receivers in the NFL right now.

Brock
08-18-2009, 03:39 PM
Technically speaking, he was 5 yards shy of that in year 1...

Other than wasting bandwidth, was there a point to this?

Mr. Krab
08-18-2009, 03:41 PM
Agreed, reality says there are 32 #1 receivers in the NFL right now.
Well if you are going to go that route then Samie Parker is a #1 because all you have to do is assign him as a #1. I think alot of nfl teams don't have a #1 WR at all.

Mile High Mania
08-18-2009, 03:41 PM
Other than wasting bandwidth, was there a point to this?

Nah, not really...

BigMeatballDave
08-18-2009, 03:41 PM
I don't think some of you guys watch other teams. Look at the numbers and what he does on the field. 2008 was a down year compared to 06-07.

Right now, I like Cotchery over Bowe.He had 82 both yrs. Bowe caught 86 with 3 crap QBs.

Micjones
08-18-2009, 03:41 PM
I guess it depends what you consider a #1. I like to think that a #1 is supposed to be ELITE.

That's not how I define "#1", but point taken.

Micjones
08-18-2009, 03:42 PM
Well if you are going to go that route then Samie Parker is a #1 because all you have to do is assign him as a #1. I think alot of nfl teams don't have a #1 WR at all.

Samie Parker was never a #1 WR even by that definition.
Sorry.

Mile High Mania
08-18-2009, 03:42 PM
He had 82 both yrs. Bowe caught 86 with 3 crap QBs.

Many said the same thing about Pennington during Cotchery's two good seasons in 06-07.

Consistent1
08-18-2009, 03:47 PM
He had 82 both yrs. Bowe caught 86 with 3 crap QBs.

I don't know about the shit QB excuses. If anything, it gave him and Gonzalez pretty much all the looks. He could have been involved with a better cast for sure, but he had tons of chances. What's next, Calvin Johnson would have re-written the NFL record book with a better QB?

TheGuardian
08-18-2009, 04:23 PM
Let's not forget that 10 of Bowe's receptions and his 2nd 100+ receiving game in 2008... came in the meaningless week 17 loss to the Bengals. Stats count, but that big game pushed him over 80 receptions and 1,000 yards.

If you want to play that game then we could take away a game from Brandon Marshall like the first game he played in last year where he caught 18 passes for 166.

Then his season looks like this -

86 grabs for 1099.

Wow, that looks really similar to Bowe's numbers. Except that bowe didn't have a pro bowl QB who locked on to him for every pass.

Marshall has been spoon fed numbers for two seasons and the guy couldn't do any better than he did the past two seasons. good, not great seasons. Bowe put up similar numbers to him last year with a revolving door at QB, a poor offensive line, and Herm Edwards. Bowe > Marshall. If Bowe had been in Denver he'd have gotten 1500+ yards. He's a better run after the catch guy than Marshall.

LaChapelle
08-18-2009, 04:29 PM
Nobody cares about the hip surgery :shrug: