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petegz28
08-18-2009, 02:56 PM
Apparently, libtalkers aren't the only ones asserting that conservatives want Obama dead. After a week of reckless rhetoric from the left side of the dial, along comes Howard Dean to show them how it's really done!

As Dean suggests Senate Republicans want to "kill the bill and kill the president", listen for the former DNC chairman's less-than-sincere effort to step out of the dog-doo. Is this Dean Scream Volume II, the quiet version?

From today's Stephanie Miller Show, here's the clip and transcript:




STEPHANIE MILLER (1:29): I saw you (Howard Dean) on Keith Olbermann last night. You really do believe we’re going to have a public option.


HOWARD DEAN: At the end of the day, I think we will. First of all, the president is a very smart guy and he knows very well this can’t work without a public option. Secondly, you know he’s run into a rough patch in the Senate, mostly because of Democrats, honestly.

The Republicans, they have no interest in this Bill. They’re using the 1994 playbook. Let’s kill the bill and kill the president...... or, kill the president’s term. Although there are sort of angry people out there I get very nervous about this stuff. I don’t like it at all.


DEAN (5:02): I’m an optimist. I think the president is gonna get a bill on his desk. I think it is going to have a public option in it. He’s going to sign it in December, his numbers are gonna turn around and we’re not going to lose a lot of seats. In fact I think we’ll pick up seats in the Senate and lose just a couple of seats in the House.

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petegz28
08-18-2009, 02:57 PM
Someone needs to tell Howard that it is the Dems holding up the bill....


to blame Repubs if a fucking joke

BigRedChief
08-18-2009, 02:59 PM
Someone needs to tell Howard that it is the Dems holding up the bill....


to blame Repubs if a ****ing joke
you are crazy. Republicans arn't holding up the bill? Slowing it down? Trashing it relentlessly? What reality are you in?

petegz28
08-18-2009, 03:01 PM
you are crazy. Republicans arn't holding up the bill? Slowing it down? Trashing it relentlessly? What reality are you in?

Excuse me?? Perhaps your math is bad but the Dems need 0 Repub votes to pass this bill.

Sorry, maybe you missed that little fact

KC Dan
08-18-2009, 03:06 PM
Excuse me?? Perhaps your math is bad but the Dems need 0 Repub votes to pass this bill.

Sorry, maybe you missed that little factThis is FACT!!! The dems need ZERO with a capital 0 republican supporters to pass this or any other bill. If they want the public option -> Shut up already and pass it. Otherwise, STFU & STFD. Over... This is a f'n joke.

petegz28
08-18-2009, 03:07 PM
This is FACT!!! The dems need ZERO with a capital 0 republican supporters to pass this or any other bill. If they want the public option -> Shut up already and pass it. Otherwise, STFU & STFD. Over... This is a f'n joke.

They jsut can't admit that it is people in their own party holding up the bill

2bikemike
08-18-2009, 03:07 PM
This is FACT!!! The dems need ZERO with a capital 0 republican supporters to pass this or any other bill. If they want the public option -> Shut up already and pass it. Otherwise, STFU & STFD. Over... This is a f'n joke.

I hope he didn't let out one of his famous crazy lunatic looking screams when he was spewing this garbage.

KC Dan
08-18-2009, 03:09 PM
I hope he didn't let out one of his famous crazy lunatic looking screams when he was spewing this garbage.I hope he did! I would vote for him if he did that weekly! LMAO

InChiefsHell
08-18-2009, 03:09 PM
you are crazy. Republicans arn't holding up the bill? Slowing it down? Trashing it relentlessly? What reality are you in?

How can the Republicans hold up this bill? Please, I really want to know...

BigRedChief
08-18-2009, 04:18 PM
How can the Republicans hold up this bill? Please, I really want to know...
I've bolded the parts about Republicans.

Analysis: Obama's missteps on health care
From murky promises to bipartisan naivete, the list of mistakes is long
ANALYSIS
By Howard Fineman
updated 2:49 p.m. CT, Tues., Aug 18, 2009
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WASHINGTON - When the history of President Barack Obama’s first year in office is written, scholars will try to answer this puzzling question:
How did a gifted, charismatic young Democrat — who won the White House by a large margin and brought in huge congressional majorities — manage NOT to enact fundamental health care reform, a goal his party has been seeking since Truman?
I still think Obama is going to get a bill, just not one very worthy of the name. Why?
Well, Republicans and their conservative and corporate allies are a big part of the explanation. Health care is one-seventh of the economy. You can’t expect to rewire it easily. There are going to be losers, and they are not going to go quietly.
Also, there are no moderates left in the GOP. Only conservatives who want to deny Obama success or legitimacy. They’ll oppose anything he proposes and call it principle.
Together, Big Money and Big Mouths will say anything to scare folks: death panels, government abortion, socialism — you name it.
That said, Obama and his team share the blame for the slow but steady shriveling of his claim to be the agent of “change you can believe in” on health care.
It’s time to ask what they did wrong. Here’s my list:
Murky campaign promises
Obama’s candidacy was fueled at first by opposition to the war in Iraq, then by his own life story, then by the economy. Yes, health care proposals were always there, but they were less of a central rationale than a policy box to be checked.
His proposals were written in part to draw useful political contrasts, first with Sen. Hillary Clinton and then with Sen. John McCain. As a result, it is hard for Obama to claim a mandate for a single, coherent detailed plan. The president is for “reform,” which says… nothing.
Orszag’s fantasy
Every president wants to reconcile frugality and generosity, and there is always an ambitious and clever aide willing to tell him it can be done. In Obama’s White House it is Budget Director Peter Orszag, who confidently told Obama that carefully administered universal health coverage would save the government money in the long run.

Perhaps in some decade hence that is possible, but for the foreseeable future the truth is just the opposite, at least according to Douglas Elmendorf, the independent head of the Congressional Budget Office — and a fellow just as credentialed and brilliant as Orszag.
Bipartisan naivete
Obama doesn’t like to make enemies, and he loved the idea — fueled by the likes of Orszag — that he could fight the reform battle on conservative turf: that we need to completely change the system because otherwise we will go bankrupt as a country.
But that was a tactical mistake on two fronts. First, Elmendorf undercut it with three devastating CBO reports.

And even if the proposals did save the government money, Republicans in Congress weren’t going to care!
For two generations, they were on the receiving end of Democratic fear-mongering how the GOP wanted to “throw grandma in the snow.” Now they are relishing the chance to accuse Obama of the same thing. They never had any intention of cooperating on a deal, and Obama should have known that from the start.

Too many 1,000-page bills
Americans are not an ideological people, for the most part. If they have an ideology about government, it is a hypocrisy: they want small government but they want government to address their every need.
It is not good politics for a president to rub this hypocrisy in their noises, and Obama has done just that. It’s not entirely his fault.
He had a near-Depression to deal with, and a banking crisis of mammoth proportions. But all the telephone-book-sized legislation and proliferation of czars left a lot of independent voters scared — and they are running from him now.
Cap and trade
Against that backdrop, the decision of the White House to jam through the House a colossal cap-and-trade energy bill might have been a mistake.
The president used up a lot, if not all, of his political capital with conservative Blue Dog Democrats when he made them vote for it. Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel wanted to “put points on the board,” and he did, brilliantly, but then the Senate Democrats balked, making the House guys feel abandoned — and wary of the next “Rahmbo” deal.
Focusing on the have-nots
From the beginning, some of Obama’s shrewdest (outside) political advisors have been telling him — almost waving their arms — that the sweet spot on the issue is clamping down on abuses by insurers.
In other words, the White House all along should have been focusing on the fears of the 85 percent who have insurance, not on the 15 percent who do not.
These days the president is calling his plan “health insurance reform,” but it is late in the game to reframe the issue.
Wrong lesson from the Clintons
As everyone knows, Bill and Hillary Clinton failed in 1994 to get a big health care reform bill enacted — one that would guarantee health care to all. The Clintons were reviled for putting the bill together in private, and then springing it on the world.

Obama promised to be open about the process and let Congress write the bill. But the real problem with “HillaryCare” was its almost lunatic complexity. It purported to create a rational system, but it was impossible to comprehend.
The real lesson should have been simplicity and sweep. Maybe it can’t be done, but we still haven’t tried.
© 2009 msnbc.com. Reprints
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Donger
08-18-2009, 04:24 PM
I agree that Republicans are partly responsible for a government-run health care bill not coming to fruition. That's because they oppose it. If some of them would just jump ship, the Democrats would have the votes.

Now, with that being said, the Democrats would have enough votes to pass legislation if only all of them would sign up. Thankfully, the Blue Dogs are not doing so yet. Therefore, while it is technically correct to assign some blame to Republicans, I'd argue that the vast majority of the blame resides firmly at the feet of the Democrats.

RedNeckRaider
08-18-2009, 04:34 PM
you are crazy. Republicans arn't holding up the bill? Slowing it down? Trashing it relentlessly? What reality are you in?

How do you figure? I guess I must not be very good at math

stevieray
08-18-2009, 04:37 PM
BRC is big on us against them.

orange
08-18-2009, 04:39 PM
How do you figure? I guess I must not be very good at math

Are you any good at English? No votes have been taken. It's all words right now, and the Republicans have had plenty of them.

BigRedChief
08-18-2009, 04:41 PM
BRC is big on us against them.
In this case, not true. I believe health care reform is neccessary but disagree with all the demorcatic plans I've read or heard about on how to achieve that reform.

Donger
08-18-2009, 04:41 PM
Are you any good at English? No votes have been taken. It's all words right now, and the Republicans have had plenty of them.

Oh good Lord...

KC Dan
08-18-2009, 04:43 PM
How do you figure? I guess I must not be very good at mathI'll help him out for you:

House:
Dems = 257, Repubs = 178

Senate:
Dems = 60, Repubs = 40

White House:
Dems = 1, Repubs = 0

I know there are a couple of independants thrown in under the dems #'s but they caucus with the dems... Looks to me like the Dems own the whole kit-n-kaboodle..

orange
08-18-2009, 04:45 PM
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"If we're able to stop Obama on [health care reform], it will be his Waterloo. It will break him and we will show that we can, along with the American people, begin to push those freedom solutions... "


DeMint must not have gotten his copy of the talking points.

Donger
08-18-2009, 04:49 PM
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"If we're able to stop Obama on [health care reform], it will be his Waterloo. It will break him and we will show that we can, along with the American people, begin to push those freedom solutions... "


DeMint must not have gotten his copy of the talking points.

Again, the Republicans wouldn't be required if the Democrats could get all their own people to vote for it.

You're (hopefully) being intentionally silly.

orange
08-18-2009, 04:57 PM
No sillier than the pretense that the Republicans have no impact on this debate.

RedNeckRaider
08-18-2009, 04:58 PM
Are you any good at English? No votes have been taken. It's all words right now, and the Republicans have had plenty of them.

I am good enough at math to know the ball is in their court and if they shit the bed it is on them. Thank god not all of them arew blind followers....so far

Donger
08-18-2009, 05:00 PM
No sillier than the pretense that the Republicans have no impact on this debate.

Could the Democrats pass legislation without a single vote from the Republicans if all the Democrats signed on? Yes, or no?

orange
08-18-2009, 05:25 PM
Could the Democrats pass legislation without a single vote from the Republicans if all the Democrats signed on? Yes, or no?

I'm guessing No. Byrd and Kennedy will probably be unavailable to vote for Cloture.

Bwana
08-18-2009, 05:39 PM
Howard Dean is the one who needs to get kneecapped. What a complete fuggen loon.

RINGLEADER
08-18-2009, 06:01 PM
Are you any good at English? No votes have been taken. It's all words right now, and the Republicans have had plenty of them.

Too bad Obama didn't listen to any Republican ideas. I'm sure he didn't think he'd need them either...

RINGLEADER
08-18-2009, 06:02 PM
I'm guessing No. Byrd and Kennedy will probably be unavailable to vote for Cloture.

I thought the Dems like Chucky Schumer have been telling us that they could pass it through reconcilliation and thus only needed 50 votes???

InChiefsHell
08-18-2009, 07:22 PM
In this case, not true. I believe health care reform is neccessary but disagree with all the demorcatic plans I've read or heard about on how to achieve that reform.

Soooo...go Republicans!

Saul Good
08-18-2009, 07:25 PM
I'm guessing No. Byrd and Kennedy will probably be unavailable to vote for Cloture.

So that is the only thing standing between us healthcare reform? Why don't they step down?

Bearcat2005
08-18-2009, 08:43 PM
I imagine there are a few blue dogs who feel uncomfortable with this proposed legislation....

petegz28
08-18-2009, 08:47 PM
I imagine there are a few blue dogs who feel uncomfortable with this proposed legislation....

I'd say, more than a few

Bearcat2005
08-18-2009, 08:52 PM
I'd say, more than a few

Honestly if the Repubs were smart they wouldn't even touch this thing with Larry's Johnson, not even a "compromised solution". Let the Dems who push this fly or fall with the merit of such proposals.

I am curious how the "Repub" ladies from Maine will address this down the stretch.