PDA

View Full Version : Economics Someone tell me why we have to give illegals access to our Emergency rooms?


googlegoogle
08-19-2009, 01:02 PM
Or even give them health care. They are a partial cause of rocketing costs.

Why can't states just ban them from our hospitals. And before you answer with 'cruel' then tell me how you would pay for it out of your wallet.

#We should set up some primary inexpensive treatment with nurses(less cost) center and then ship them back.

BigRedChief
08-19-2009, 01:03 PM
uhhh, hypocratic oath and other binding agreements.

Brock
08-19-2009, 01:04 PM
i have no problem with it as long as they're put on a bus as soon as they're well enough to travel.

googlegoogle
08-19-2009, 01:07 PM
i have no problem with it as long as they're put on a bus as soon as they're well enough to travel.

After a couple of hundred or thousand in debt to the hospital too?

That's why they are shutting down hospitals and prices are higher.

Chief Faithful
08-19-2009, 01:08 PM
Courts long ago ruled that nobody can be denied access to emergency medical.

Pablo
08-19-2009, 01:10 PM
After a couple of hundred or thousand in debt to the hospital too?

That's why they are shutting down hospitals and prices are higher.Yes, illegal immigrants are the reason why medical care costs are so high.

F*ck. Were you born this stupid or did you have to work at it?

googlegoogle
08-19-2009, 01:11 PM
Courts long ago ruled that nobody can be denied access to emergency medical.

that's wrong then. Where does it say in the Constitution that we must give them expensive healthcare?

Just 'bend the stupid laws'. Give them a medical student to check them out.

googlegoogle
08-19-2009, 01:12 PM
Yes, illegal immigrants are the reason why medical care costs are so high.

F*ck. Were you born this stupid or did you have to work at it?

Your name. Conflict of interest. What a big fuc*king surprise.

Yeah, illegals are GREAT for health care system.

Who are you trying to sell/brainwash that shi* of lies?

Rooster
08-19-2009, 01:13 PM
After a couple of hundred or thousand in debt to the hospital too?

That's why they are shutting down hospitals and prices are higher.

:spock::spock: Damn it's all the illegals fault. I thought the white trash had something to do with it too.

Brock
08-19-2009, 01:16 PM
that's wrong then. Where does it say in the Constitution that we must give them expensive healthcare?

Just 'bend the stupid laws'. Give them a medical student to check them out.

Do you want to let them bleed out on the sidewalk or what?

Demonpenz
08-19-2009, 01:16 PM
fuck we better take care of them my roof needs replaced soon

The Rick
08-19-2009, 01:16 PM
I can kind of see your point.

Sometimes, I think we're a little too "nice" and it ends up hurting us. Everyone likes to be nice, but we also have to face the reality that someone, somewhere is going to have to pay for it.

For U.S. citizens, I can understand not denying access to medical care. But for a non-U.S. citizen who is breaking the rules by being here illegally? Maybe it would make more people consider the consequences of being here illegally.

It's certainly a tough call because you obviously don't want to watch someone suffer, but the reality of it is that someone, somewhere has to pay and frankly, our country with our economic problems and our massive debt can't afford to.

DaneMcCloud
08-19-2009, 01:24 PM
It's called being "human"

googlegoogle
08-19-2009, 01:24 PM
:spock::spock: Damn it's all the illegals fault. I thought the white trash had something to do with it too.

Do you keep up with the news?

Did i say it all their fault. Or are you trying to DIVERT. I said they play a part in the South.

Donger
08-19-2009, 01:25 PM
It's called being "human"

Perhaps they could pay cash if they didn't send so much money back to Mexico.

googlegoogle
08-19-2009, 01:28 PM
It's called being "human"

Then you and your sympathetic friends should pay for it since you're a great human.

What's wrong with that?

Oh yeah, you want to FORCE others to pay for the never ending line of Mexicans coming here for free healthcare.

thecoffeeguy
08-19-2009, 01:56 PM
It is frustrating to see the type of care that illegals get and they pay zero for it.

Who pays the bill? We do.

Rooster
08-19-2009, 02:08 PM
Or are you trying to DIVERT. .

ROFLROFL Get a life loser.

Chief Faithful
08-19-2009, 02:10 PM
that's wrong then. Where does it say in the Constitution that we must give them expensive healthcare?

Just 'bend the stupid laws'. Give them a medical student to check them out.

It used to be access was denied on ability to pay and some places on segregation. After some people died from being denied access the following court cases led to the rule of no-one can be denied access to emergency medical.

This is why people will say access to healthcare is not the problem it is giving the appropriate care at appropriate costs. The emergency rooms, our most expensive and limited resource, is clogged with people with no insurance and illegal aliens ( they are not immigrants because they have no plans to stay).

RaiderH8r
08-19-2009, 02:14 PM
We should send their bills to Michael Moore and Bill Maher.

Chief Faithful
08-19-2009, 02:19 PM
It is frustrating to see the type of care that illegals get and they pay zero for it.

Who pays the bill? We do.

Often the illegal alien will use stolen identities (my wife is an identity thef protection specialist so I hear the storys everyday). There was a recent audit of the use of emergency medical in the downtown Dallas emergency room. In 2008 there were 9000 visits by 9 individuals out of a total of 27,000 visits. That is 30% of the visitors gave the same personal information of these 9 individuals and there was nothing the hospital could do about it. The average cost to buy an identity on the street is $35.

Another fun example, my daughter wants to attend Truman State from out-of-state. If she was an illegal alien she would qualify for in-state tuition saving 12,000 a year and would qualify for special federal grants making her tuition free. Not even citizens or legal immigrants qualify for these special breaks.

The costs from illegals in healthcare and society in general is tremendously high.

Inspector
08-19-2009, 02:25 PM
I can understand the frustration. And I could support the laws being enforced after care was provided. And yeah it sucks that we end up paying for it but if the law is enforced maybe over time we'd eventually could stop having so many crooks stealing this from us?

KC Dan
08-19-2009, 02:28 PM
I can understand the frustration. And I could support the laws being enforced after care was provided. And yeah it sucks that we end up paying for it but if the law is enforced maybe over time we'd eventually could stop having so many crooks stealing this from us?How about this? Treat them, which I firmly believe that we MUST AS HUMAN BEINGS AND AMERICANS if a true emergency and then put them on a bus to the border and throw them over.

Inspector
08-19-2009, 02:36 PM
How about this? Treat them, which I firmly believe that we MUST AS HUMAN BEINGS AND AMERICANS if a true emergency and then put them on a bus to the border and throw them over.

Yeah, I can see that. It's humane and it also deals with the criminal element. Just don't throw them so hard that they end up back at the ER....

I'll vote for this.

KC Dan
08-19-2009, 02:48 PM
Yeah, I can see that. It's humane and it also deals with the criminal element. Just don't throw them so hard that they end up back at the ER....

I'll vote for this.Well, if they hit hard and need treatment, at least they are on the other side of the border...:clap:

thecoffeeguy
08-19-2009, 02:48 PM
Often the illegal alien will use stolen identities (my wife is an identity thef protection specialist so I hear the storys everyday). There was a recent audit of the use of emergency medical in the downtown Dallas emergency room. In 2008 there were 9000 visits by 9 individuals out of a total of 27,000 visits. That is 30% of the visitors gave the same personal information of these 9 individuals and there was nothing the hospital could do about it. The average cost to buy an identity on the street is $35.

Another fun example, my daughter wants to attend Truman State from out-of-state. If she was an illegal alien she would qualify for in-state tuition saving 12,000 a year and would qualify for special federal grants making her tuition free. Not even citizens or legal immigrants qualify for these special breaks.

The costs from illegals in healthcare and society in general is tremendously high.

Wow...and where are our so called elected officials? Why are they not helping us out instead of the illegals?

I dont get it sometimes. I really dont.

chiefzilla1501
08-19-2009, 03:50 PM
It's called being "human"

And so it's inhumane to deny emergency care to illegal immigrants. But it's perfectly human for an illegal immigrant to come into this country illegally, demand emergency care, falsify their identification to receive access to this care, and then not pay for the service they got? What you are referring to is STEALING. That is not human. That is illegal. I have no problem with illegal aliens receiving care. I have a very big problem with them receiving care that they won't pay for.

But it's not just the care they receive. It's the demands they are placing on these hospitals. They are demanding that hospitals have employees who speak Spanish (I don't remember my chinese immigrant neighbor being granted that same luxury).

These are all enormous costs to the system. It's just as inhuman to refuse to give as it is to demand someone to give.

RINGLEADER
08-19-2009, 03:54 PM
Perhaps they could pay cash if they didn't send so much money back to Mexico.

Or we could just send a big bill to Mexico for the treatment???

Seriously, you can't not treat them but you can add immigration onto the pile of other things the government does a terrible job of administrating (which is why we shouldn't want them anymore involved in health care than they've already managed)...

RNR
08-19-2009, 04:38 PM
i have no problem with it as long as they're put on a bus as soon as they're well enough to travel.

This! If it is not a life or death issue take them to jail treat them there and deport them. This shit is out of hand. Those who have green cards that allow them to work here, guess what we are out of jobs time to go home. The left is no worse than the right on this matter. They want cheap labor and workers who do not bitch about benefits so they do nothing about the problem.

DaneMcCloud
08-19-2009, 04:39 PM
Then you and your sympathetic friends should pay for it since you're a great human.

What's wrong with that?

Oh yeah, you want to FORCE others to pay for the never ending line of Mexicans coming here for free healthcare.

Urine idiot.

DaneMcCloud
08-19-2009, 04:40 PM
Or we could just send a big bill to Mexico for the treatment???

Seriously, you can't not treat them but you can add immigration onto the pile of other things the government does a terrible job of administrating (which is why we shouldn't want them anymore involved in health care than they've already managed)...

I can't believe they've chosen to push the illegal immigration problem back to 2010.

:shake:

googlegoogle
08-19-2009, 05:42 PM
Urine idiot.

Stupid jackass.

Someway I'm thinking your profiting off the issue.

banyon
08-19-2009, 05:59 PM
Or even give them health care. They are a partial cause of rocketing costs.

Why can't states just ban them from our hospitals. And before you answer with 'cruel' then tell me how you would pay for it out of your wallet.

#We should set up some primary inexpensive treatment with nurses(less cost) center and then ship them back.

How would you propose we decide who is and who isn't illegal while someone enters an ER with a GSW?

banyon
08-19-2009, 06:07 PM
You know a decent alternative would be for a requirement for doctors to report people that are treated after they are stabilized and let ICE check their status and then detain them and deport them.

vailpass
08-19-2009, 06:08 PM
As I've previously admitted I used to employ illegals to do my yardwork. Once I saw that I was part of the problem I ceased that practice.
To the point: one of my yard guys told me he had mexican health insurance. I asked him what that was. He turned and translated for the other three and they all four laughed.
He said mexican insurance is pronounced "emergency room".

The downtown ERs here in Phoenix are full of illegals who go there for routine health care. They know they will be seen, they know they will never have to pay. Anyone who thinks illegals aren't a severe strain on the public and hospital systems in those cities in which there is a large illegal population are kidding themselves.

banyon
08-19-2009, 06:22 PM
It used to be access was denied on ability to pay and some places on segregation. After some people died from being denied access the following court cases led to the rule of no-one can be denied access to emergency medical.

This is why people will say access to healthcare is not the problem it is giving the appropriate care at appropriate costs. The emergency rooms, our most expensive and limited resource, is clogged with people with no insurance and illegal aliens ( they are not immigrants because they have no plans to stay).

It is a federal law, there were not courts forcing hospitals to do this.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/42/usc_sec_42_00001395--dd000-.html

§ 1395dd. Examination and treatment for emergency medical conditions and women in labor
How Current is This? (a) Medical screening requirement
In the case of a hospital that has a hospital emergency department, if any individual (whether or not eligible for benefits under this subchapter) comes to the emergency department and a request is made on the individual’s behalf for examination or treatment for a medical condition, the hospital must provide for an appropriate medical screening examination within the capability of the hospital’s emergency department, including ancillary services routinely available to the emergency department, to determine whether or not an emergency medical condition (within the meaning of subsection (e)(1) of this section) exists.
(b) Necessary stabilizing treatment for emergency medical conditions and labor
(1) In general
If any individual (whether or not eligible for benefits under this subchapter) comes to a hospital and the hospital determines that the individual has an emergency medical condition, the hospital must provide either—
(A) within the staff and facilities available at the hospital, for such further medical examination and such treatment as may be required to stabilize the medical condition, or
(B) for transfer of the individual to another medical facility in accordance with subsection (c) of this section.
(2) Refusal to consent to treatment
A hospital is deemed to meet the requirement of paragraph (1)(A) with respect to an individual if the hospital offers the individual the further medical examination and treatment described in that paragraph and informs the individual (or a person acting on the individual’s behalf) of the risks and benefits to the individual of such examination and treatment, but the individual (or a person acting on the individual’s behalf) refuses to consent to the examination and treatment. The hospital shall take all reasonable steps to secure the individual’s (or person’s) written informed consent to refuse such examination and treatment...

...(d) Enforcement
(1) Civil money penalties
(A) A participating hospital that negligently violates a requirement of this section is subject to a civil money penalty of not more than $50,000 (or not more than $25,000 in the case of a hospital with less than 100 beds) for each such violation. The provisions of section 1320a–7a of this title (other than subsections (a) and (b)) shall apply to a civil money penalty under this subparagraph in the same manner as such provisions apply with respect to a penalty or proceeding under section 1320a–7a (a) of this title.
(B) Subject to subparagraph (C), any physician who is responsible for the examination, treatment, or transfer of an individual in a participating hospital, including a physician on-call for the care of such an individual, and who negligently violates a requirement of this section, including a physician who—
(i) signs a certification under subsection (c)(1)(A) of this section that the medical benefits reasonably to be expected from a transfer to another facility outweigh the risks associated with the transfer, if the physician knew or should have known that the benefits did not outweigh the risks, or
(ii) misrepresents an individual’s condition or other information, including a hospital’s obligations under this section,
is subject to a civil money penalty of not more than $50,000 for each such violation and, if the violation is gross and flagrant or is repeated, to exclusion from participation in this subchapter and State health care programs. The provisions of section 1320a–7a of this title (other than the first and second sentences of subsection (a) and subsection (b)) shall apply to a civil money penalty and exclusion under this subparagraph in the same manner as such provisions apply with respect to a penalty, exclusion, or proceeding under section 1320a–7a (a) of this title.

I believe that if a hospital does not want to accept medicare $ then they can refuse who they want. Some states, however have their own stabilization statutes as well.

chiefzilla1501
08-19-2009, 07:55 PM
The downtown ERs here in Phoenix are full of illegals who go there for routine health care. They know they will be seen, they know they will never have to pay. Anyone who thinks illegals aren't a severe strain on the public and hospital systems in those cities in which there is a large illegal population are kidding themselves.

It's not just emergency rooms. It's also public schools. We're schooling a bunch of kids who have parents that are illegal and don't pay taxes. And worse, these are parents who demand that schools teach ESL (English as a second language classes). The costs are spiraling out of control for public schools.

In California alone, I believe it was said that illegal aliens drain about $10B per year. And that's only one state! And about $2B of that is attributed to health care. I don't know the drain on all of America, but I would not be surprised if it was somewhere around $50B.

dirk digler
08-19-2009, 09:07 PM
It is a federal law, there were not courts forcing hospitals to do this.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/42/usc_sec_42_00001395--dd000-.html

§ 1395dd. Examination and treatment for emergency medical conditions and women in labor
How Current is This? (a) Medical screening requirement
In the case of a hospital that has a hospital emergency department, if any individual (whether or not eligible for benefits under this subchapter) comes to the emergency department and a request is made on the individual’s behalf for examination or treatment for a medical condition, the hospital must provide for an appropriate medical screening examination within the capability of the hospital’s emergency department, including ancillary services routinely available to the emergency department, to determine whether or not an emergency medical condition (within the meaning of subsection (e)(1) of this section) exists.
(b) Necessary stabilizing treatment for emergency medical conditions and labor
(1) In general
If any individual (whether or not eligible for benefits under this subchapter) comes to a hospital and the hospital determines that the individual has an emergency medical condition, the hospital must provide either—
(A) within the staff and facilities available at the hospital, for such further medical examination and such treatment as may be required to stabilize the medical condition, or
(B) for transfer of the individual to another medical facility in accordance with subsection (c) of this section.
(2) Refusal to consent to treatment
A hospital is deemed to meet the requirement of paragraph (1)(A) with respect to an individual if the hospital offers the individual the further medical examination and treatment described in that paragraph and informs the individual (or a person acting on the individual’s behalf) of the risks and benefits to the individual of such examination and treatment, but the individual (or a person acting on the individual’s behalf) refuses to consent to the examination and treatment. The hospital shall take all reasonable steps to secure the individual’s (or person’s) written informed consent to refuse such examination and treatment...

...(d) Enforcement
(1) Civil money penalties
(A) A participating hospital that negligently violates a requirement of this section is subject to a civil money penalty of not more than $50,000 (or not more than $25,000 in the case of a hospital with less than 100 beds) for each such violation. The provisions of section 1320a–7a of this title (other than subsections (a) and (b)) shall apply to a civil money penalty under this subparagraph in the same manner as such provisions apply with respect to a penalty or proceeding under section 1320a–7a (a) of this title.
(B) Subject to subparagraph (C), any physician who is responsible for the examination, treatment, or transfer of an individual in a participating hospital, including a physician on-call for the care of such an individual, and who negligently violates a requirement of this section, including a physician who—
(i) signs a certification under subsection (c)(1)(A) of this section that the medical benefits reasonably to be expected from a transfer to another facility outweigh the risks associated with the transfer, if the physician knew or should have known that the benefits did not outweigh the risks, or
(ii) misrepresents an individual’s condition or other information, including a hospital’s obligations under this section,
is subject to a civil money penalty of not more than $50,000 for each such violation and, if the violation is gross and flagrant or is repeated, to exclusion from participation in this subchapter and State health care programs. The provisions of section 1320a–7a of this title (other than the first and second sentences of subsection (a) and subsection (b)) shall apply to a civil money penalty and exclusion under this subparagraph in the same manner as such provisions apply with respect to a penalty, exclusion, or proceeding under section 1320a–7a (a) of this title.

I believe that if a hospital does not want to accept medicare $ then they can refuse who they want. Some states, however have their own stabilization statutes as well.

Holy crap. I was thinking the law just provided for emergency or life saving care not every possible health problem. No wonder our health care costs have sky rocketed in the last decade.

bobbymitch
08-19-2009, 09:21 PM
I can tell you that our local "city hospital" does treat people from other countries who fly in for free medical care and surgeries. The hospital is also required to provide (read pay for) translators to go over the post-procedure care instructions. Granted, most of the people have local relatives and use their address on all admission forms and contact. Somalia seems to be the biggest user this year.

Pioli Zombie
08-19-2009, 10:53 PM
I think we should just let them bleed to death in the street. Duhhhh

Btw, how are you going to check status. Some people brought into the ER aren't carrying their papers on them Or their wallets.
Posted via Mobile Device

Ultra Peanut
08-19-2009, 11:52 PM
You know a decent alternative would be for a requirement for doctors to report people that are treated after they are stabilized and let ICE check their status and then detain them and deport them.Yeah, because seeking medical care isn't already discouraged enough in this country.

There are some seriously inhuman motherfuckers in this thread.

Reaper16
08-20-2009, 12:22 AM
$$$ > lives, baby. This is America.

Uncle_Ted
08-20-2009, 12:38 AM
Even if you believe illegals should not be entitled to care, the short answer is that we don't want people who are citizens or are here legally to be denied emergency care just because they "look foreign" and didn't happen to have their passport or their green card on them when their car got T-boned by a semi.

Saggysack
08-20-2009, 01:27 AM
Even if you believe illegals should not be entitled to care, the short answer is that we don't want people who are citizens or are here legally to be denied emergency care just because they "look foreign" and didn't happen to have their passport or their green card on them when their car got T-boned by a semi.

Exactly. Asking an EMT, or a physician for that matter, to make a judgement call on who should or who shouldn't be there is asking them to do something they are not qualified to do. And bringing ICE into a hospital setting just to check out someone is asinine.

BWillie
08-20-2009, 01:49 AM
I really just don't understand why we don't cut foreign military spending, I mean, just cut it by like 10%. That is it. If we put all the money we spent on the Iraq War to boarder control don't you think we would of been 1000% better off? That would be more than enough to arm the entire freaking boarder. All we have to do is not let anymore in or at least diminish it a great deal, I mean it's really almost that simple. When they try to come in, grab them, deport them back. It's not very cost efficient to export them all the way from Iowa, way back to Mexico. If you are deporting those mofuggers form a couple miles a way, would save alot of money I would think.

I know an illegal and he swam the Rio Grande River. Was easy as shit he said. Can't we put piranhas or something in the water that would make them think twice? And I'm serious. Although Pat Buchanan is pretty crazy, his idea of making a freaking wall doesn't sound that stupid as it did back in the 1990's.

Sure somebody is going to make the argument that what is the difference if you are spending money on increased boarder control or subsidizing illegals here but at least I'd feel better about our country.

Otter
08-20-2009, 03:43 AM
Stop bitching about it on a public message board and let your elected officials know your fed up with them ignoring the problem.

Here's a great place to start:

www.numbersusa.com (http://www.numbersusa.com)

It's free (although donations are welcome and accepted) and for about 10 minutes a day through their website you can fax your senators and call them to display your intent.

All we ask is that you represent yourself in a civil manner and when contacting your senators and in no way, shape or form take aggression out on legal immigrants who followed the rules to become an American.

Silock
08-20-2009, 05:25 AM
... because we're not fucking savages. Yeah, it sucks, but if we don't want to keep paying for it because they're illegal, we should make it easier for them to BE legal so they can pay their own way.

Otter
08-20-2009, 07:00 AM
... because we're not ****ing savages. Yeah, it sucks, but if we don't want to keep paying for it because they're illegal, we should make it easier for them to BE legal so they can pay their own way.

This isn't a time in our nations history where we need immigration and feeling the law isn't convenient enough for you doesn't make you above it.

HonestChieffan
08-20-2009, 07:39 AM
Its a small amount of the total cost and we as a country benefit from the work they do. The fact is, IMO, we wouldnt have such a huge issue if the legal immigration system worked. Its broken and people who live in Mexico under the poverty they have will do anything to try to better themselves. In many ways our failure to fix the legal side created the illegal side.

I know thats not a popular position but its an opinion.

kysirsoze
08-20-2009, 11:08 AM
No Kidding!! If we let a few of those poor brown skinned people die I could have gotten a TV that was like 5 inches bigger!

WTF people. There are a lot of problems with how immigration is handled but allowing them emergency healthcare will never stop and it shouldn't. What if I show up to the ER without my wallet or any other ID? I guess they gotta let me die since I can't prove my citizenship, huh?

dirk digler
08-20-2009, 11:14 AM
No Kidding!! If we let a few of those poor brown skinned people die I could have gotten a TV that was like 5 inches bigger!

WTF people. There are a lot of problems with how immigration is handled but allowing them emergency healthcare will never stop and it shouldn't. What if I show up to the ER without my wallet or any other ID? I guess they gotta let me die since I can't prove my citizenship, huh?

It is not emergency care that is the problem. If you read the law you can go to the ER for anything and not be denied.

IMHO they need to change it that if you don't have ID except in life or death situation then you can't have access. Of course this would have to work in conjunction with a national ID card or something like that since illegals can get forged Drivers License and SS cards

vailpass
08-20-2009, 11:47 AM
Its a small amount of the total cost and we as a country benefit from the work they do. The fact is, IMO, we wouldnt have such a huge issue if the legal immigration system worked. Its broken and people who live in Mexico under the poverty they have will do anything to try to better themselves. In many ways our failure to fix the legal side created the illegal side.

I know thats not a popular position but its an opinion.

Do you live in an area with a high concentration of illegals?

vailpass
08-20-2009, 11:48 AM
No Kidding!! If we let a few of those poor brown skinned people die I could have gotten a TV that was like 5 inches bigger!

WTF people. There are a lot of problems with how immigration is handled but allowing them emergency healthcare will never stop and it shouldn't. What if I show up to the ER without my wallet or any other ID? I guess they gotta let me die since I can't prove my citizenship, huh?

You live in LA, you don't get to have an opinion on illegals.

HonestChieffan
08-20-2009, 11:48 AM
Do you live in an area with a high concentration of illegals?

I can't tell if they are illegal. How would I tell?

vailpass
08-20-2009, 11:56 AM
I can't tell if they are illegal. How would I tell?

You could have saved some bandwith by just saying "no".

KC native
08-20-2009, 11:57 AM
I can't tell if they are illegal. How would I tell?

Well, if you're vailpass, anybody that's brown must be an illegal.

KC native
08-20-2009, 11:58 AM
You could have saved some bandwith by just saying "no".

What are you a little sensitive about your overt racism now that sprayer got banned again?

Ultra Peanut
08-20-2009, 11:58 AM
This isn't a time in our nations history where we need immigrationYeah, nobody's ever felt that way in the past.

http://j.photos.cx/immigration-d0f.jpg

Ultra Peanut
08-20-2009, 12:00 PM
Its a small amount of the total cost and we as a country benefit from the work they do. The fact is, IMO, we wouldnt have such a huge issue if the legal immigration system worked. Its broken and people who live in Mexico under the poverty they have will do anything to try to better themselves. In many ways our failure to fix the legal side created the illegal side.

I know thats not a popular position but its an opinion.Someone help. I'm... I'm so scared. I feel dizzy. My nose is bleeding. I'M COLD. so cold...

vailpass
08-20-2009, 12:00 PM
Well, if you're vailpass, anybody that's brown must be an illegal.

Shut up and trim my palm trees druggy boy.

KC native
08-20-2009, 12:03 PM
Shut up and trim my palm trees druggy boy.

Classic. Anything else grandwizard?

vailpass
08-20-2009, 12:13 PM
Classic. Anything else grandwizard?

This from a guy who trades illegal drugs for tattoos. Anything else you want to share with us oh Father of the Year?

KC native
08-20-2009, 12:16 PM
This from a guy who trades illegal drugs for tattoos. Anything else you want to share with us oh Father of the Year?

I paid cash for my tattoo. Care to add any other libelous statements grand wizard?

vailpass
08-20-2009, 12:24 PM
I paid cash for my tattoo. Care to add any other libelous statements grand wizard?

Do you deny that you posted that you "smoked up the tattoo artist at your home in exhchange for a tattoo"?

Chief Faithful
08-20-2009, 12:43 PM
In 1986, Congress enacted the Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA) to ensure public access to emergency services regardless of ability to pay. Section 1867 of the Social Security Act imposes specific obligations on Medicare-participating hospitals that offer emergency services to provide a medical screening examination (MSE) when a request is made for examination or treatment for an emergency medical condition (EMC), including active labor, regardless of an individual's ability to pay. Hospitals are then required to provide stabilizing treatment for patients with EMCs. If a hospital is unable to stabilize a patient within its capability, or if the patient requests, an appropriate transfer should be implemented.

http://www.cms.hhs.gov/emtala/

KC native
08-20-2009, 12:44 PM
Do you deny that you posted that you "smoked up the tattoo artist at your home in exhchange for a tattoo"?

Yes, because I went to a shop to have mine done. That's someone else's post. Want to try again now grand wizard?

kysirsoze
08-20-2009, 12:49 PM
People in this thread are focusing on the symptom not the problem. If we actually address the illegal immigration issues facing us then the ER symptom will work itself out. Until we do, however, I believe it to be nothing short of evil to deny emergency care to people based on their ethnicity or citizenship.

Cave Johnson
08-20-2009, 12:51 PM
Until we do, however, I believe it to be nothing short of evil to deny emergency care to people based on their ethnicity or citizenship.

Nazi-like, even.

Iowanian
08-20-2009, 12:54 PM
I think we should treat them. They might not be paying taxes, might be costing our schools, local government programs and medical system outragious expenses, but they're human beings.

They should be treated until healthy enough to travel(life saving and comfort) and put on a bus/train/plane.

Their country of origin should be invoiced for the treatment or have the costs deducted from any Aid packages being given to their native country.

kysirsoze
08-20-2009, 01:06 PM
I think we should treat them. They might not be paying taxes, might be costing our schools, local government programs and medical system outragious expenses, but they're human beings.

They should be treated until healthy enough to travel(life saving and comfort) and put on a bus/train/plane.

Their country of origin should be invoiced for the treatment or have the costs deducted from any Aid packages being given to their native country.

Only problem there is getting a third world country to pay up. Plus, cutting aid will only pressure more illegal immigrants into the U.S. in search of help.

vailpass
08-20-2009, 01:15 PM
Yes, because I went to a shop to have mine done. That's someone else's post. Want to try again now grand wizard?

You are either lying now or you were lying then.

KC Dan
08-20-2009, 01:26 PM
I think we should treat them. They might not be paying taxes, might be costing our schools, local government programs and medical system outragious expenses, but they're human beings.

They should be treated until healthy enough to travel(life saving and comfort) and put on a bus/train/plane.

Their country of origin should be invoiced for the treatment or have the costs deducted from any Aid packages being given to their native country.I said that yesterday......no response - SURPRISE!

KC native
08-20-2009, 01:26 PM
You are either lying now or you were lying then.

Find the post then jerk off. I never claimed I smoked out the artist that did my back piece. I went to a shop here in Fort Worth.

kysirsoze
08-20-2009, 01:30 PM
You are either lying now or you were lying then.

Who cares? If I could smoke out a tattoo artist instead of pay him, I'd do it. I rarely smoke weed but if it worked out to save me a buck...

Oh yeah, what does this have to do with this thread?

KC native
08-20-2009, 01:30 PM
You are either lying now or you were lying then.

This is the only post where I've discussed my back piece. Care to show me where in there I said I smoked the artist out for a free tatt?

Looked through the thread and you are getting better man especially considering that you've been doing this such a short time. Keep up the good work and I might visit you when I'm in KC sometime. You gotta get a little more experience for me to be comfortable though as both my tatt's have come from people that have been tattooing for more than 5 years.

I got something on my calf and just started a massive back piece. I'm 4 hours in and the artist knocked out a huge chunk. He got almost all the line work done (save the text) and shaded the main part (which is the focal point and runs from just below the collar line to the lower back). I will post a pic when it stops peeling. Also, small world part of my post, the guy that owns the shop went to Raytown High School 10 years before I did.

KC native
08-20-2009, 01:32 PM
Who cares? If I could smoke out a tattoo artist instead of pay him, I'd do it. I rarely smoke weed but if it worked out to save me a buck...

Oh yeah, what does this have to do with this thread?

Nothing. Vailpass has a hard on for me and other Hispanics. He's as racist as shtspraye is but he doesn't cross the line as often and since his hate is primarily directed at Hispanics it's ok for DC on CP.

Iowanian
08-20-2009, 01:33 PM
You seem like the kind of a guy that would smoke a pole for less than a tat.

KC native
08-20-2009, 01:34 PM
You seem like the kind of a guy that would smoke a pole for less than a tat.

Damn, back to ride my dick some more? Any reason why you felt the need to show off your douchebagginess in this thread?

KC native
08-20-2009, 01:35 PM
You seem like the kind of a guy that would smoke a pole for less than a tat.

Oh and almost forgot.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xuYrhZxHGPs&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xuYrhZxHGPs&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

vailpass
08-20-2009, 01:42 PM
This is the only post where I've discussed my back piece. Care to show me where in there I said I smoked the artist out for a free tatt?

Flabby fucker aren't you?

ClevelandBronco
08-20-2009, 01:45 PM
You live in LA, you don't get to have an opinion on illegals.

Holy shit. If he lives in L.A. he probably has a more valid opinion about illegals than most folks.

BTW:

1. Illegal alien ≠ Mexican. They're not synonymous. (Of course, I lived in El Paso where the terms are damned near synonymous.)

2. If you don't like the law, change it, or change the clowns who make the laws. Illegals are entitled to be cared for in an emergency room of any hospital that accepts federal funds. So are legal citizens who cannot pay. Good luck getting ICE to show up to sort them out.

3. Let's not argue about whether we should be educating the children of illegals in public schools. Do you really want great numbers of uneducated kids roaming around with nothing to do all day while you're not home to protect your property? Also, many children of illegals are citizens by virtue of being born on U.S. soil. Again, take it up with your lawmakers if you don't like that inconvenient fact.

Reaper16
08-20-2009, 01:47 PM
Nothing. Vailpass has a hard on for me and other Hispanics. He's as racist as shtspraye is but he doesn't cross the line as often and since his hate is primarily directed at Hispanics it's ok for DC on CP.
Failpass has been doing this crap for years.

KC native
08-20-2009, 01:48 PM
Flabby ****er aren't you?

Is this your way of admitting you were wrong? Anything else to add grand wizard?

Iowanian
08-20-2009, 01:49 PM
kcN needs to get a grip on his man to gland relationship.

KC native
08-20-2009, 01:52 PM
kcN needs to get a grip on his man to gland relationship.

:spock:

Iowanian
08-20-2009, 01:55 PM
I'm saying you like to chew on Goo bazookas.


I'll bet your back tat is a pair of tits, so the guys in prison had something to look at while bucking you out.

KC native
08-20-2009, 02:01 PM
I'm saying you like to chew on Goo bazookas.


I'll bet your back tat is a pair of tits, so the guys in prison had something to look at while bucking you out.

You're awfully interested in my sex life. Is there something you want to confess? Are you in the closet? Do you want to come out to your CP brethren?

googlegoogle
08-20-2009, 04:57 PM
What are you a little sensitive about your overt racism now that sprayer got banned again?

First race card in thread. Go f**k yourself. :clap:

googlegoogle
08-20-2009, 04:59 PM
Yeah, nobody's ever felt that way in the past.

http://j.photos.cx/immigration-d0f.jpg

Yeah, these ILLEGALS are great for the usa!

Why don't 'YOU' open your wallet for them? Hmmm.

Reaper16
08-20-2009, 05:00 PM
First race card in thread. Go f**k yourself. :clap:
Oh, like Failpass' intentions aren't evident at a crystalline level.

googlegoogle
08-20-2009, 05:01 PM
Classic. Anything else grandwizard?

Brilliant. That will really shut that evil American up.

How dare he want to keep you and your homeboys out of the USA.

It's not like there are any laws to keep people out. Everyone's free to enter and get as much free hospital care they want.

Down with the white man! Good one bro! :clap:

googlegoogle
08-20-2009, 05:05 PM
Nazi-like, even.

You are the epitome of the real problems with the USA.

I bet you hardly pay a dime of taxes or contribute much to this country.

Nazi labeling! LOL.

googlegoogle
08-20-2009, 05:06 PM
I think we should treat them. They might not be paying taxes, might be costing our schools, local government programs and medical system outragious expenses, but they're human beings.

They should be treated until healthy enough to travel(life saving and comfort) and put on a bus/train/plane.

Their country of origin should be invoiced for the treatment or have the costs deducted from any Aid packages being given to their native country.

Only if you pay. :D

Rudy lost the toss
08-20-2009, 06:09 PM
Find the post then jerk off. I never claimed I smoked out the artist that did my back piece. I went to a shop here in Fort Worth.

Depends on the relationship with the tatt artist. I have 3 or 4 "tattoo artists" (in quotes because they've only done a few) that will do work on me for the cost of supplies and smoking them out.

Way to own up to it.

Cave Johnson
08-20-2009, 06:28 PM
You are the epitome of the real problems with the USA.

I bet you hardly pay a dime of taxes or contribute much to this country.

Nazi labeling! LOL.

Your sarcasm meter, if you ever had one, is broken.

BTW, I'll be fair and say I agree with you that illegals should be funneled into urgent care centers instead of ERs. But who pays for the care is the kicker.

Iowanian
08-20-2009, 07:22 PM
You're awfully interested in my sex life. Is there something you want to confess? Are you in the closet? Do you want to come out to your CP brethren?

That's interesting, since 13 of my last 14 red dots are from you, and I'll wager 10 of them reference a man and a penis. I'll wager the hail damage in your face isn't from acne, but Kidney stone dents from goo bazooka misfires.

chiefzilla1501
08-20-2009, 07:39 PM
Holy shit. If he lives in L.A. he probably has a more valid opinion about illegals than most folks.

BTW:

1. Illegal alien ≠ Mexican. They're not synonymous. (Of course, I lived in El Paso where the terms are damned near synonymous.)

2. If you don't like the law, change it, or change the clowns who make the laws. Illegals are entitled to be cared for in an emergency room of any hospital that accepts federal funds. So are legal citizens who cannot pay. Good luck getting ICE to show up to sort them out.
And that is an issue that is currently under review. My opinion has always been that you should speed up their path to citizenship. You won't get rid of them, but you can force them to pay and then you can change the rules for the next breed of illegal immigrants. But it goes without saying... visit any local hospital or talk to any hospital worker. The vast majority of unpaid cases come from illegal immigrants who are gaming the system. That's something that needs to be changed because their cheating is making my and your healthcare price go up. What pisses me off is that they're DEMANDING that they be allowed access to public health coverage. Any gov't employee will tell you that illegal immigrants are experts at gaming the system, so a ton of our taxes are going to go toward a group of people who don't pay taxes, but expect to be covered.

3. Let's not argue about whether we should be educating the children of illegals in public schools. Do you really want great numbers of uneducated kids roaming around with nothing to do all day while you're not home to protect your property? Also, many children of illegals are citizens by virtue of being born on U.S. soil. Again, take it up with your lawmakers if you don't like that inconvenient fact.
You gotta change the rules somehow, because they are draining money from our public school system. We are ruining the educational experience for millions of kids because a bunch of freeloaders are gaming the system. First of all, public schools need to say fuck you to the rising demands for the school to offer ESL classes. My family immigrated to America years ago and never once did they have their hand held like that. Force them to learn English, because the cost of forcing schools to become bilingual is astronomically high. Second, that law needs to be changed that those who are born in the US are automatically naturalized citizens. Fuck that. If you're born from an illegal, you should be illegal too. Again, that should be one of the rule changes AFTER current illegals are given a path to citizenship.
I know it's harsh. But my stance is that the minute you are discovered to be illegal, your entire family needs to be shipped back. We're throwing a pity party because we are forced to break families up.

KC native
08-20-2009, 11:22 PM
Way to own up to it.

Look at my back piece in the photo a few posts later. It's clearly not done by an amateur artist. I have a few friends that are amateurs and would tattoo me for the cost of supplies and smoking them out. Now just because I know these people doesn't mean I will let them ink me. First off, my house isn't a sterile environment (I have a 3 yo, two dogs, and two birds). Second, THEY'RE ****ING AMATEURS AND TATTOOS ARE PERMANENT. So, go **** yourself for hopping into the middle of this when it didn't concern you.

BTW since my tattoo is so interesting to you can even look up the shop I got it at (I don't mind advertising for them all the artists there are great and the owner went to Raytown High a decade before me). It's called Elite Tattoo and it's in Fort Worth. Hell, I know you cons are lazy so here's the link http://elitetattoogallery.com/home.html.

KC native
08-20-2009, 11:24 PM
That's interesting, since 13 of my last 14 red dots are from you, and I'll wager 10 of them reference a man and a penis. I'll wager the hail damage in your face isn't from acne, but Kidney stone dents from goo bazooka misfires.

Hurr Hurr another gay joke from Io-allicanmakearegayjokes-awanian. You seem pretty preoccupied with gay jokes. You sure there's nothing you want to admit to on here?

ClevelandBronco
08-21-2009, 07:39 AM
And...

Thank you for reading absolutely nothing you quoted.

Iowanian
08-21-2009, 07:51 AM
Hurr Hurr another gay joke from Io-allicanmakearegayjokes-awanian. You seem pretty preoccupied with gay jokes. You sure there's nothing you want to admit to on here?

I'll gladly admit that you're the biggest douchebag to show up on this site in the past year.

KC native
08-21-2009, 07:58 AM
I'll gladly admit that you're the biggest douchebag to show up on this site in the past year.

:deevee:wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh the resident tough guy homophobe on CP doesn't like me waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!:deevee:

Seriously, get the **** over yourself. I could give a flying **** what you think of me.

Duck Dog
08-21-2009, 08:10 AM
A good subject with good debate and KCN shows up and fucks it all up.

What a fucking dick.

Otter
08-21-2009, 08:13 AM
And that is an issue that is currently under review. My opinion has always been that you should speed up their path to citizenship. You won't get rid of them, but you can force them to pay and then you can change the rules for the next breed of illegal immigrants. But it goes without saying... visit any local hospital or talk to any hospital worker. The vast majority of unpaid cases come from illegal immigrants who are gaming the system. That's something that needs to be changed because their cheating is making my and your healthcare price go up. What pisses me off is that they're DEMANDING that they be allowed access to public health coverage. Any gov't employee will tell you that illegal immigrants are experts at gaming the system, so a ton of our taxes are going to go toward a group of people who don't pay taxes, but expect to be covered.


You gotta change the rules somehow, because they are draining money from our public school system. We are ruining the educational experience for millions of kids because a bunch of freeloaders are gaming the system. First of all, public schools need to say **** you to the rising demands for the school to offer ESL classes. My family immigrated to America years ago and never once did they have their hand held like that. Force them to learn English, because the cost of forcing schools to become bilingual is astronomically high. Second, that law needs to be changed that those who are born in the US are automatically naturalized citizens. **** that. If you're born from an illegal, you should be illegal too. Again, that should be one of the rule changes AFTER current illegals are given a path to citizenship.
I know it's harsh. But my stance is that the minute you are discovered to be illegal, your entire family needs to be shipped back. We're throwing a pity party because we are forced to break families up.

:clap:

KC native
08-21-2009, 08:15 AM
A good subject with good debate and KCN shows up and ****s it all up.

What a ****ing dick.

:deevee: waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh another CP tough guy doesn't like me waaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!!! :deevee:

BTW this thread was far from good debate. It was just more of the usual immigrant bashing and when the racism that always happens in these threads came up I commented on it and then all the tough guys felt the need to try and attack me.

Otter
08-21-2009, 08:37 AM
:deevee: waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh another CP tough guy doesn't like me waaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!!! :deevee:

BTW this thread was far from good debate. It was just more of the usual immigrant bashing and when the racism that always happens in these threads came up I commented on it and then all the tough guys felt the need to try and attack me.

Oh look, it's temper tantrum time with a topping of "poor me" by KC Niave.

:yawn:

KC native
08-21-2009, 08:37 AM
:clap:

Is this second one a threat? FTR I repped him back and informed him of the ignore feature.

08-21-2009 09:24 AM Otter I'd rather you disapear tough guy
08-21-2009 09:14 AM Otter it would be cool if you just disappeared

Why be coy Otter? Quit being a coward and say what you want.

Duck Dog
08-21-2009, 08:37 AM
:deevee: waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh another CP tough guy doesn't like me waaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!!! :deevee:

BTW this thread was far from good debate. It was just more of the usual immigrant bashing and when the racism that always happens in these threads came up I commented on it and then all the tough guys felt the need to try and attack me.

You threw the first punch, you fucking crybaby. You hadn't made one comment on the subject, you immediately went on the attack and fucked up the entire thread.

KC native
08-21-2009, 08:38 AM
Oh look, it's temper tantrum time with a topping of "poor me" by KC Niave.

:yawn:

It's not a temper tantrum. It's making fun of you idiots for thinking I could give a flying fuck of what you think about me.

Otter
08-21-2009, 08:38 AM
Is this second one a threat? FTR I repped him back and informed him of the ignore feature.

08-21-2009 09:24 AM Otter I'd rather you disapear tough guy
08-21-2009 09:14 AM Otter it would be cool if you just disappeared

Why be coy Otter? Quit being a coward and say what you want.

I'm saying this would be a better place if you left. Are you going to turn this into me threatening you again?

That's cute.

KC native
08-21-2009, 08:41 AM
I'm saying this would be a better place if you left. Are you going to turn this into me threatening you again?

That's cute.

I asked you to clarify. If you don't like me so much why don't you use the ignore function?

KC native
08-21-2009, 08:42 AM
You threw the first punch, you ****ing crybaby. You hadn't made one comment on the subject, you immediately went on the attack and ****ed up the entire thread.

So, I'm supposed to ignore all of the history between me and vail? Go fuck yourself. I made a comment about his post and then you guys tried to pile on and then accuse me of crying.

Duck Dog
08-21-2009, 08:45 AM
So, I'm supposed to ignore all of the history between me and vail? Go **** yourself. I made a comment about his post and then you guys tried to pile on and then accuse me of crying.

Seriously, I'm trying to do you a favor. You sound as if you're one good cry from becoming a girl.

ChiTown
08-21-2009, 08:45 AM
Seriously, I'm trying to do you a favor. You sound as if you're one good cry from becoming a girl.

Becoming?

Otter
08-21-2009, 08:47 AM
I asked you to clarify. If you don't like me so much why don't you use the ignore function?

I told you already. Your ability to speak in full sentences with total bliss to imbecilic presentation amazes me.

You're a guilty pleasure freak show.

stevieray
08-21-2009, 08:49 AM
just fuck off and die you fucking dumbass..you don't know what you're talking about...and quit pretending to be an internet tough guy..what are you? gay?/KCNative's boss

KC native
08-21-2009, 08:50 AM
Seriously, I'm trying to do you a favor. You sound as if you're one good cry from becoming a girl.

ROFL Do me a favor? Are you serious? Do you honestly think I give a fuck what the wacked out conservatives out here in DC think of me? Do you really think I'm crying or get upset because of what's posted here?

You conservatives are quite hilarious. You all are convinced that I want to belong to your group so you give me advice on how to get along with you. If you haven't noticed I just take your guy's tactics and throw them right back in your face.

KC native
08-21-2009, 08:51 AM
I told you already. Your ability to speak in full sentences with total bliss to imbecilic presentation amazes me.

You're a guilty pleasure freak show.

ROFL

Duck Dog
08-21-2009, 08:53 AM
ROFL Do me a favor? Are you serious? Do you honestly think I give a **** what the wacked out conservatives out here in DC think of me? Do you really think I'm crying or get upset because of what's posted here?

You conservatives are quite hilarious. You all are convinced that I want to belong to your group so you give me advice on how to get along with you. If you haven't noticed I just take your guy's tactics and throw them right back in your face.

If you want to continue to embarrass yourself, be my guest.

KC native
08-21-2009, 08:54 AM
If you want to continue to embarrass yourself, be my guest.

ROFL Embarass myself? From message board posts? ROFL You really are clueless. Right now would be a perfect time for UP's smoke weed every day frog.

Otter
08-21-2009, 08:56 AM
Seriously, I'm trying to do you a favor. You sound as if you're one good cry from becoming a girl.

It's amazing isn't it? Then he is so clueless to what it looked like he can stamp his feet and say "I WIN" and believe it.

KC native
08-21-2009, 08:58 AM
It's amazing isn't it? Then he is so clueless to what it looked like he can stamp his feet and say "I WIN" and believe it.

ROFL Ah your cognitive dissonance is strong little one. Please show me where you've ever corrected me on any post.

Otter
08-21-2009, 09:02 AM
ROFL Ah your cognitive dissonance is strong little one. Please show me where you've ever corrected me on any post.

I've tried and given up a long time ago. You're like arguing with a 2 year old. When you're proven wrong you resort to ignoring the counterpoint and posting these:

ROFL

with various, usually irrelevant, deflections.

You're a simple minded freak. It's kinda neat to watch.

KC native
08-21-2009, 09:05 AM
I've tried and given up a long time ago. You're like arguing with a 2 year old. When you're proven wrong you resort to ignoring the counterpoint and posting these:

ROFL

with various, usually irrelevant, deflections.

You're a simple minded freak. It's kinda neat to watch.

No you never tried. You post BS studies from a right wing think tank and think that is a rebuttal. When I pointed out the shortcomings of those studies you began your crusade to shout me down. Nice try. Please play again sometime.

Otter
08-21-2009, 09:14 AM
No you never tried. You post BS studies from a right wing think tank and think that is a rebuttal. When I pointed out the shortcomings of those studies you began your crusade to shout me down. Nice try. Please play again sometime.

Yep, that's how it happened Corky, your self-serving memory is something to be admired as well. Why am I not surprised?

I almost envy your blissful ignorance to a point, I always wondered if life was easier for stupid people unfortunately you don't have enough self-awareness to give insight to your being.

We've danced this dance before, give me your neg rep and let's get this over with, you grow stale for this Friday.

Don't forget your ROFL KC Niave...it's so..."you".

petegz28
08-21-2009, 09:14 AM
just **** off and die you ****ing dumbass..you don't know what you're talking about...and quit pretending to be an internet tough guy..what are you? gay?/KCNative's boss

:LOL:

KC native
08-21-2009, 09:18 AM
Yep, that's how it happened Corky, your self-serving memory is something to be admired as well. Why am I not surprised?

I almost envy your blissful ignorance to a point, I always wondered if life was easier for stupid people unfortunately you don't have enough self-awareness to give insight to your being.

We've danced this dance before, give me your neg rep and let's get this over with, you grow stale for this Friday.

Don't forget your ROFL KC Niave...it's so..."you".

ROFL This is rich coming from a guy that won't look at evidence objectively. You have never once refuted anything I have posted and instead have asked irrelevant questions and relied on faulty think tank studies to make your points. The self serving memory is definitely on your problem not mine.

BTW, you spelled Naive wrong for like the third time.

stevieray
08-21-2009, 09:31 AM
The self serving memory is definitely on your problem not mine.

BTW, you spelled Naive wrong for like the third time.

on your problem? ....like....totally...

Otter
08-21-2009, 09:33 AM
ROFL This is rich coming from a guy that won't look at evidence objectively. You have never once refuted anything I have posted and instead have asked irrelevant questions and relied on faulty think tank studies to make your points. The self serving memory is definitely on your problem not mine.

BTW, you spelled Naive wrong for like the third time.

OK, let's give this another whirl. We'll start out with the original question I asked you that you never answered:

Do you, KC Native, support illegal immigrants who cross the US Border from Mexico undocumented and illegally breaking our countries federal immigration laws?

KC native
08-21-2009, 09:36 AM
OK, let's give this another whirl. We'll start out with the original question I asked you that you never answered:

Do you, KC Native, support illegal immigrants who cross the US Border from Mexico undocumented and illegally breaking our countries federal immigration laws?

Which was irrelevant to the discussion that we were having at the time so it will remain unanswered. Whether I support them or not has no bearing on the issues we were discussing. You can try to distract from the fact that the facts don't support what you claim but in the end you are wrong.

So, for the last time I will not answer a loaded question like this. It is irrelevant to immigration issues.

KC native
08-21-2009, 09:38 AM
OK, let's give this another whirl. We'll start out with the original question I asked you that you never answered:

Do you, KC Native, support illegal immigrants who cross the US Border from Mexico undocumented and illegally breaking our countries federal immigration laws?

Actually I find it quite funny that you come back to this question since I blew your "studies" out of the water. Keep on with your personal vendetta and willful ignorance though.

Otter
08-21-2009, 09:42 AM
Which was irrelevant to the discussion that we were having at the time so it will remain unanswered. Whether I support them or not has no bearing on the issues we were discussing. You can try to distract from the fact that the facts don't support what you claim but in the end you are wrong.

So, for the last time I will not answer a loaded question like this. It is irrelevant to immigration issues.

This was the first question I asked you which you are deflecting for the umpteenth time. I asked you this well before I presented any facts or figures.

You know where I stand in this debate and it's fair I know yours to better understand who I'm debating with on this subject.

So, who is at fault here for our stands not making any progress at this juncture KC Native? You or Me?

KC native
08-21-2009, 09:47 AM
This was the first question I asked you which you are deflecting for the umpteenth time. I asked you this well before I presented any facts or figures.

You know where I stand in this debate and it's fair I know yours to better understand who I'm debating with on this subject.

So, who is at fault here for our stands not making any progress at this juncture KC Native? You or Me?


Yes it was technically the first question that you asked of me however you seem to forget that you were making claims and posting CIS "studies" and I refuted those. After I refuted those studies, you decided to, instead of trying to debate the facts, come up with your loaded and irrelevant question. Once your powder was spent you tried to go the ad hominem route but I refused to indulge you so you got pissed.

It's quite clear that you are impeding progress because you insist that I answer an irrelevant and loaded question.

Otter
08-21-2009, 09:50 AM
Yes it was technically the first question that you asked of me however you seem to forget that you were making claims and posting CIS "studies" and I refuted those. After I refuted those studies, you decided to, instead of trying to debate the facts, come up with your loaded and irrelevant question. Once your powder was spent you tried to go the ad hominem route but I refused to indulge you so you got pissed.

It's quite clear that you are impeding progress because you insist that I answer an irrelevant and loaded question.

We still haven't reached step one of a debate, I don't know what you're trying to defend/debate. I'm arguing reasons that illegal immigration is wrong and harmful to the country.

What is your position?

KC native
08-21-2009, 09:58 AM
We still haven't reached step one of a debate, I don't know what you're trying to defend/debate. I'm arguing reasons that illegal immigration is wrong and harmful to the country.

What is your position?

And I showed you that you were misguided on your claims of how harmful it is so that perhaps you would reconsider your position. Instead of evaluating the evidence in front of you, you decided to try and force me to answer your irrelevant question.

Iowanian
08-21-2009, 09:58 AM
:deevee:wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh the resident tough guy homophobe on CP doesn't like me waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!:deevee:

Seriously, get the **** over yourself. I could give a flying **** what you think of me.

You obviously do. It could be that you respond to any comment I make, have given me around 20 repgs that always talk about man-love in some capacity, like to use the word bitch, douche and toughguy.

You're a walking, talking, menstruating Fish taco. Speaking of Tacos. Order up, and don't forget my coke.

KC native
08-21-2009, 10:07 AM
You obviously do. It could be that you respond to any comment I make, have given me around 20 repgs that always talk about man-love in some capacity, like to use the word bitch, douche and toughguy.

You're a walking, talking, menstruating Fish taco. Speaking of Tacos. Order up, and don't forget my coke.

Respond to any comment you make? ROFL Delusions of granduer huh? You're the one that feels the need to come into just about every thread I post out here and deliver a gay joke. I only reply to your posts after you try to insult me. You can carry on with your own little world now.

FishingRod
08-21-2009, 10:25 AM
By some strange happenstance I think the conversation may have veered a tiny bit of course. Strange for that to happen here.
I think the big picture issue is, as we keep getting more socialistic in our government programs we need to take a serious look at what we are, and are not doing about immigration legal and illegal. With only "our" citizens the cost of universal healthcare, public education and so forth is and will be astronomical. It will not be sustainable without a great deal of sacrifice. If we just leave the doors open to all of the unfortunates of the world to come to America and so we can feed, educate and take care of their medical issues it will finish be quite possibly the last nail in the coffin of our economy. In the past America was the land of the free where millions of immigrants from all over the globe came with little more than a dream. In many ways our country was built on those already here taking advantage of the newest group . Giving them the worst jobs for the lowest pay. With hard work and a little luck these groups integrated with mainstream society and became part of our middle class. Those that couldn't make it on their own simply didn't make it. For millions and millions of people across the world the "poor people" in our country, living in government housing, being supplied with food stamps, public education and free medical care are very rich indeed. I'm not heartless and I don't want to see people starve, or die for lack of a simple shot of antibiotics or see children tramped in poverty because they never received the basic education to function in our society but, we can't save the world all on our own. When there is a tsunami, earthquake, hurricane, drought or any other kind of disaster the international community instead of thanking the US for its help and charity complains about us being too slow, not giving enough, not fixing everything right then and there. I see our efforts noble as they are, as being unappreciated. We need to adopt immigration rules similar to those of the countries like Mexico. Read them you will be amazed. I believe the changes in our government services are inevitable and once implemented irreversible. With that being the case we need to look after the United States first. We need to make it far more difficult to sneak into the country illegally and for those that would like to move here by legal means, they need to be able to show that they have a skill set that they can probably support their selves. Be it a trade or a decent education. They need to be an asset not a liability. This is one of the costs to being our brothers keeper. Charity will have to start at home.

Otter
08-21-2009, 10:37 AM
And I showed you that you were misguided on your claims of how harmful it is so that perhaps you would reconsider your position. Instead of evaluating the evidence in front of you, you decided to try and force me to answer your irrelevant question.

I don't remember you refuting the stats I showed you. I do remember you saying something along the lines of "that source is biased and doesn't count". That doesn't account for much I'm afraid.

Here's an article using California as case study, what's your thoughts?

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS268071+06-Feb-2009+PRN20090206


California Budget Meltdown Would be Lessened by Combating Increases in Illegal
Immigration

WASHINGTON, Feb. 6 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- California state lawmakers now
grappling with a $40 billion budget deficit were advised five years ago of the
mounting costs of illegal immigration in the state. In 2004, the Federation
for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) issued a study of the fiscal cost of
illegal immigration to Californians. At that time, the cost to the state's
taxpayers was $10.54 billion a year. That estimate included the cost of
educating the children of illegal aliens - both those illegally in the country
and those born here - in K-12 public schools, emergency medical care, and
incarceration of criminal aliens.

While these annual costs for illegal immigration have been steadily draining
California's budget year after year, the costs have risen and are placing an
even greater strain on the state's resources in 2009. The original 2004 cost
estimate was based on an illegal alien population estimated at 2,900,000.
Today, FAIR estimates California's illegal alien population has grown to
3,200,000, a 10.3 percent increase. As a result of both the continued growth
in the illegal alien population and the higher cost of governmental services,
the current fiscal cost outlays for the illegal alien population in California
are now approaching $13.1 billion annually - more than half the projected
shortfall for next year.

"California is melting down with an unemployment rate of 9.3 percent, 257,400
jobs lost in 2008, median home values plummeting 50% since spring of 2007, and
the lowest S&P bond rating of all fifty states," said Dan Stein, President of
FAIR. "While Governor Schwarzenegger is proposing draconian cuts in spending,
ordering furloughs for state employees, and delaying expected taxpayer
refunds, he continues to ignore the budget-busting cost of illegal
immigration. With the highest concentration of illegal aliens of any state -
nearly one in eight residents is illegal - it's no wonder California is in the
mess it is."

"California state officials need to acknowledge the fiscal impact of illegal
immigration and remove the welcome mat to those who are not entitled to
residence, employment or most benefits. A big chunk of the state deficit could
be cut over time if the state adopted measures that effectively complemented
federal efforts to deter illegal immigration. The interests of law abiding
residents of California must take precedence over continued pandering to
ethno-centric special interest amnesty groups and unscrupulous employers
looking for cheap labor," observed Stein.

KC native
08-21-2009, 10:42 AM
I don't remember you refuting the stats I showed you. I do remember you saying something along the lines of "that source is biased and doesn't count". That doesn't account for much I'm afraid.

Here's an article using California as case study, what's your thoughts?

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS268071+06-Feb-2009+PRN20090206


California Budget Meltdown Would be Lessened by Combating Increases in Illegal
Immigration

WASHINGTON, Feb. 6 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- California state lawmakers now
grappling with a $40 billion budget deficit were advised five years ago of the
mounting costs of illegal immigration in the state. In 2004, the Federation
for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) issued a study of the fiscal cost of
illegal immigration to Californians. At that time, the cost to the state's
taxpayers was $10.54 billion a year. That estimate included the cost of
educating the children of illegal aliens - both those illegally in the country
aterests of law abiding
residents of California must take precedence over continued pandering to
ethno-centric special interest amnesty groups and unscrupulous employers
looking for cheap labor," observed Stein.

Too bad you don't remember because I specifically went in and showed you how they trumped up expenditures and made 3 or 4 assumptions that basically made their "study" an exercise in futility.

What I find funny is that the "studies" that you cite rely on CBO info and the CBO said they couldn't figure exact numbers but these guys can. BTW FAIR is another biased source.

KC native
08-21-2009, 10:44 AM
I don't remember you refuting the stats I showed you. I do remember you saying something along the lines of "that source is biased and doesn't count". That doesn't account for much I'm afraid.

Here's an article using California as case study, what's your thoughts?

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS268071+06-Feb-2009+PRN20090206


California Budget Meltdown Would be Lessened by Combating Increases in Illegal
Immigration

.

What's even funnier about you posting this article is leaving off the last paragraph. Quite telling about the strength of your argument when you leave shit like this off.

About FAIR
Founded in 1979, FAIR is the country's largest immigration reform group. With
over 250,000 members nationwide, FAIR fights for immigration policies that
serve national interests, not special interests. FAIR believes that
immigration reform must enhance national security, improve the economy,
protect jobs, preserve our environment, and establish a rule of law that is
recognized and enforced.


SOURCE FAIR

Ira Mehlman, +1-206-420-7733, or Bob Dane, +1-202-328-7004, both of FAIR

Otter
08-21-2009, 10:45 AM
What's even funnier about you posting this article is leaving off the last paragraph. Quite telling about the strength of your argument when you leave shit like this off.

It was in the link that is was from FAIR and part of the article I posted.

You're like arguing with a ****ing tree stump. You stupid ****.

And no, you didn't refute anything. Go back and prove you factually refuted my stats and I'll donate $1000 to ACORN today. You have my word.

I'm sure that's the way you remember it though.

For the record, I tried to discuss this rationally.

KC native
08-21-2009, 10:51 AM
It was in the link that is was from FAIR and part of the article I posted.

You're like arguing with a ****ing tree stump. You stupid ****.

And no, you didn't refute anything. Go back and prove you factually refuted my stats and I'll donate $1000 to ACORN today. You have my word.

I'm sure that's the way you remember it though.

For the record, I tried to discuss this rationally.

So you felt the need to post all but the last paragraph? Why is that?

Otter
08-21-2009, 10:52 AM
What's even funnier about you posting this article is leaving off the last paragraph. Quite telling about the strength of your argument when you leave shit like this off.

Did you miss this part in the first paragraph?

WASHINGTON, Feb. 6 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- California state lawmakers now
grappling with a $40 billion budget deficit were advised five years ago of the mounting costs of illegal immigration in the state. In 2004, the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) issued a study of the fiscal cost of illegal immigration to Californians. At that time, the cost to the state's taxpayers was $10.54 billion a year. That estimate included the cost of educating the children of illegal aliens - both those illegally in the country and those born here - in K-12 public schools, emergency medical care, and incarceration of criminal aliens.

KC native
08-21-2009, 10:52 AM
It was in the link that is was from FAIR and part of the article I posted.

You're like arguing with a ****ing tree stump. You stupid ****.

And no, you didn't refute anything. Go back and prove you factually refuted my stats and I'll donate $1000 to ACORN today. You have my word.

I'm sure that's the way you remember it though.

For the record, I tried to discuss this rationally.


Yes I did refute their "studies". I find it amusing that you think these think tanks that have less resources than the CBO can do what the CBO can't do (provide a real cost of illegal immigration). What was really amusing about what you posted before is that one of the "studies" you posted was sourced entirely from CBO data and based their claims off of that data when the CBO said they couldn't provide an accurate figure.

KC native
08-21-2009, 10:54 AM
Did you miss this part in the first paragraph?

WASHINGTON, Feb. 6 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- California state lawmakers now
grappling with a $40 billion budget deficit were advised five years ago of the mounting costs of illegal immigration in the state. In 2004, the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) issued a study of the fiscal cost of illegal immigration to Californians. At that time, the cost to the state's taxpayers was $10.54 billion a year. That estimate included the cost of educating the children of illegal aliens - both those illegally in the country and those born here - in K-12 public schools, emergency medical care, and incarceration of criminal aliens.

Yea but the first paragraph tries to make it look like an article that a journalist has written when it is nothing other than a puff piece to get their "study" press. I just find it telling that you hold that out there as a reputable source but conveniently leave off the glaring conflict of interest at the end of the article. Is your ctrl+C function limited on your computer?

Otter
08-21-2009, 10:55 AM
You still haven't provided one bit of insight on the article besides its source.

KC native
08-21-2009, 10:58 AM
You still haven't provided one bit of insight on the article besides its source.

ROFL You think that's an article? It's a straight puff piece written by FAIR members.

BTW Did you notice that it included the cost of educating children that are American citizens? Don't you think that trumps up the expenditures a little and thus leads to an inaccurate number which throws the rest of their conclusions into doubt?

KC native
08-21-2009, 10:59 AM
Did you miss this part in the first paragraph?

WASHINGTON, Feb. 6 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- California state lawmakers now
grappling with a $40 billion budget deficit were advised five years ago of the mounting costs of illegal immigration in the state. In 2004, the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) issued a study of the fiscal cost of illegal immigration to Californians. At that time, the cost to the state's taxpayers was $10.54 billion a year. That estimate included the cost of educating the children of illegal aliens - both those illegally in the country and those born here - in K-12 public schools, emergency medical care, and incarceration of criminal aliens.

Also, did you notice that it includes emergency medical which was one of the specific areas that the CBO said they couldn't estimate?

Otter
08-21-2009, 10:59 AM
ROFL You think that's an article? It's a straight puff piece written by FAIR members.

BTW Did you notice that it included the cost of educating children that are American citizens? Don't you think that trumps up the expenditures a little and thus leads to an inaccurate number which throws the rest of their conclusions into doubt?

It clearly states that they are included but for sake of progress with you, let's forget the article all together. Can you answer this:

Do you think illegal immigrants harm America in any way, shape or form?

KC native
08-21-2009, 11:01 AM
For sake of progress with you, let's forget the article all together. Can you answer this:

Do you think illegal immigrants harm America in any way, shape or form?

Yes, but again that's irrelevant and the easiest way to reduce that harm is to provide these people a path to citizenship.

Back on the subject of your puff piece, are you going to quit holding these "studies" out there as credible arguments?

KC native
08-21-2009, 11:03 AM
It clearly states that they are included but for sake of progress with you, let's forget the article all together. Can you answer this:

Do you think illegal immigrants harm America in any way, shape or form?

Also, I know it states that it's included. My point was how do you hold that out as evidence when it is obviously flawed because of what's included in their "cost" figure?

RJ
08-21-2009, 11:13 AM
Illegal immigration is a huge drain on our resources, billions upon billions of dollars. I don't think many folks would deny this simple truth.

Having said that, denying someone medical care from an ER is not only inhumane, it is also unwise. Definitely in "slippery slope" territory.

Otter
08-21-2009, 11:18 AM
Yes, but again that's irrelevant and the easiest way to reduce that harm is to provide these people a path to citizenship.

Back on the subject of your puff piece, are you going to quit holding these "studies" out there as credible arguments?

I don't think they're are any more biased than acorn studies or studies from the pew Hispanic center but if you leave articles from those groups out I will as well.

KC native
08-21-2009, 11:20 AM
I don't think they're are any more biased than acorn studies or studies from the pew Hispanic center but if you leave articles from those groups out I will as well.

Have I ever cited either of those organizations?

Otter
08-21-2009, 11:23 AM
Also, I know it states that it's included. My point was how do you hold that out as evidence when it is obviously flawed because of what's included in their "cost" figure?

At that time, the cost to the state's
taxpayers was $10.54 billion a year. That estimate included the cost of
educating the children of illegal aliens - both those illegally in the country
and those born here - in K-12 public schools, emergency medical care, and
incarceration of criminal aliens.

They included anchor babies in the study. Those born here by illegal aliens but technically US citizens by birthright. So they are directly tied to the costs of illegal aliens.

Otter
08-21-2009, 11:23 AM
Have I ever cited either of those organizations?

No, not that I recall. Just stating for future reference.

googlegoogle
08-21-2009, 12:14 PM
Illegal immigration is a huge drain on our resources, billions upon billions of dollars. I don't think many folks would deny this simple truth.

Having said that, denying someone medical care from an ER is not only inhumane, it is also unwise. Definitely in "slippery slope" territory.

Are these vital emergencies that we're treating? Probably not.

They shouldn't be over here then should they. We should just send them back over the border for their 'excellent universal health coverage' in Mexico.

BigRedChief
08-21-2009, 12:43 PM
Illegal immigration is a huge drain on our resources, billions upon billions of dollars. I don't think many folks would deny this simple truth.

Having said that, denying someone medical care from an ER is not only inhumane, it is also unwise. Definitely in "slippery slope" territory.
Thats the bottom line. :clap:

vailpass
08-21-2009, 01:16 PM
Do you deny that you posted that you "smoked up the tattoo artist at your home in exhchange for a tattoo"?

Yes, because I went to a shop to have mine done. That's someone else's post. Want to try again now grand wizard?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KC native
Depends on the relationship with the tatt artist. I have 3 or 4 "tattoo artists" (in quotes because they've only done a few) that will do work on me for the cost of supplies and smoking them out.


Ready to admit you are a liar KC Native? Or will you just play the race card again and try to deflect from your dishonesty? Maybe attach some immature and profane video instead of facing the truth?

KC native
08-21-2009, 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC native
Depends on the relationship with the tatt artist. I have 3 or 4 "tattoo artists" (in quotes because they've only done a few) that will do work on me for the cost of supplies and smoking them out.


Ready to admit you are a liar KC Native? Or will you just play the race card again and try to deflect from your dishonesty? Maybe attach some immature and profane video instead of facing the truth?

How about you read the whole thread before you talk jackass.

This is the only post where I've discussed my back piece. Care to show me where in there I said I smoked the artist out for a free tatt?

Look at my back piece in the photo a few posts later. It's clearly not done by an amateur artist. I have a few friends that are amateurs and would tattoo me for the cost of supplies and smoking them out. Now just because I know these people doesn't mean I will let them ink me. First off, my house isn't a sterile environment (I have a 3 yo, two dogs, and two birds). Second, THEY'RE ****ING AMATEURS AND TATTOOS ARE PERMANENT. So, go **** yourself for hopping into the middle of this when it didn't concern you.

BTW since my tattoo is so interesting to you can even look up the shop I got it at (I don't mind advertising for them all the artists there are great and the owner went to Raytown High a decade before me). It's called Elite Tattoo and it's in Fort Worth. Hell, I know you cons are lazy so here's the link http://elitetattoogallery.com/home.html.

Reaper16
08-21-2009, 01:25 PM
I know a couple of tattoo artists who would ink me for the cost of supplies & smoking them out, too. I've never bought nor sold weed, and I don't have any tattoos. But I know a couple of guys if I wanted to. Just saying that you know how to access something doesn't necessitate your actually having done it.

vailpass
08-21-2009, 01:28 PM
How about you read the whole thread before you talk jackass.

When confronted with facts showing you are a liar and a deflector of truth your response is to lie and deflect from the truth.

Direct question for you requesting a one word answer of either "yes" or "no":

Were you lying when you said "Yes, because I went to a shop to have mine done. That's someone else's post. Want to try again now grand wizard?"
in response to the question: "Do you deny that you posted that you smoked up a tattoo artist at your home in exhchange for a tattoo"?

Were you lying yes or no?

KC native
08-21-2009, 01:32 PM
When confronted with facts showing you are a liar and a deflector of truth your response is to lie and deflect from the truth.

Direct question for you requesting a one word answer of either "yes" or "no":

Were you lying when you said "Yes, because I went to a shop to have mine done. That's someone else's post. Want to try again now grand wizard?"
in response to the question: "Do you deny that you posted that you smoked up a tattoo artist at your home in exhchange for a tattoo"?

Were you lying yes or no?

I had forgotten about that post and considering neither of my tattoos had been done like an artist like that I wasn't lying.

***SPRAYER
08-21-2009, 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC native
Depends on the relationship with the tatt artist. I have 3 or 4 "tattoo artists" (in quotes because they've only done a few) that will do work on me for the cost of supplies and smoking them out.


Ready to admit you are a liar KC Native? Or will you just play the race card again and try to deflect from your dishonesty? Maybe attach some immature and profane video instead of facing the truth?

:clap:

KC native
08-21-2009, 01:35 PM
When confronted with facts showing you are a liar and a deflector of truth your response is to lie and deflect from the truth.

Direct question for you requesting a one word answer of either "yes" or "no":

Were you lying when you said "Yes, because I went to a shop to have mine done. That's someone else's post. Want to try again now grand wizard?"
in response to the question: "Do you deny that you posted that you smoked up a tattoo artist at your home in exhchange for a tattoo"?

Were you lying yes or no?

Go back and read that post about the relationship with the tatt artist and show me where I said I smoked an artist out for a tattoo

KC native
08-21-2009, 01:37 PM
Actually I'll just post it for you.

Originally Posted by KC native View Post
Depends on the relationship with the tatt artist. I have 3 or 4 "tattoo artists" (in quotes because they've only done a few) that will do work on me for the cost of supplies and smoking them out.

So, where in there does it say I smoked out an artist for a tattoo?

Reaper16
08-21-2009, 01:40 PM
I know a couple of tattoo artists who would ink me for the cost of supplies & smoking them out, too. I've never bought nor sold weed, and I don't have any tattoos. But I know a couple of guys if I wanted to. Just saying that you know how to access something doesn't necessitate your actually having done it.
In case the point was missed.

vailpass
08-21-2009, 01:51 PM
Actually I'll just post it for you.



So, where in there does it say I smoked out an artist for a tattoo?

IMHO the people who have read this thread can be broken down into two groups: those who recognize you to be a liar and call you out on it and those who recognize you to be a liar don't say anything to you about it.

vailpass
08-21-2009, 01:52 PM
In case the point was missed.

Are you saying it depends on what your definition of "is" is?

Reaper16
08-21-2009, 01:54 PM
Are you saying it depends on what your definition of "is" is?
I didn't have sexual relations with my tattoo artist, if that's what your asking.

KC native
08-21-2009, 01:55 PM
IMHO the people who have read this thread can be broken down into two groups: those who recognize you to be a liar and call you out on it and those who recognize you to be a liar don't say anything to you about it.

So where did I lie grand wizard?

vailpass
08-21-2009, 02:01 PM
I didn't have sexual relations with my tattoo artist, if that's what your asking.

:D You don't wear a dark blue shirt to the ink shop do you? No salt spiders crawling on you?

vailpass
08-21-2009, 02:04 PM
I had forgotten about that post and considering neither of my tattoos had been done like an artist like that I wasn't lying.

I was taught to believe that a person who can't give a simple "yes" or "no" answer when asked to do so is bullshitting.
Just another piece of wisdom that has proven true time and again.

You "forgot" you said something like that? What's mexican for "tangled web"?

KC native
08-21-2009, 02:05 PM
I was taught to believe that a person who can't give a simple "yes" or "no" answer when asked to do so is bullshitting.
Just another piece of wisdom that has proven true time and again.

So where did I lie jackass? I never posted that I smoked out an artist for a tattoo.

DJJasonp
08-21-2009, 03:29 PM
Illegal immigration is a huge drain on our resources, billions upon billions of dollars. I don't think many folks would deny this simple truth.

Having said that, denying someone medical care from an ER is not only inhumane, it is also unwise. Definitely in "slippery slope" territory.

Agreed...

That said....I live in San Diego. Back in college, I worked at a liquor store which was a popular hangout for illegals. Every month or so, border patrol would round up 3 or 4 illegals....take them back to Mexico.

About 2-3 weeks later, sure as sh*t, those same dudes would be back.

So - the real problem solving (now, just as much then) doesnt lie with "should our hospitals treat illegals or not" - it's with protecting our borders and enforcing immigration laws that have been in existance for decades.

(what part of "illegal immigrant" do people not understand?)

The revenue lost by "cheap labor" by actually enforcing immigration laws would in no way compare to the billions of dollars our country loses due to health care, inprisonment/crime, education (dont even get me started on the California education system), you name it...

At this point, I'm even willing to give temp citizenship cards to those that are here - the key here is to get the illegals to "sign the guestbook" and kick in to the tax system.

But - until our govt decides to take it seriously (whether by protecting our borders, enforcing immigration laws, and going after "cheating" businesses who hire illegals) - we'll be stuck with the same money-bleeding situation we have now.

KC native
08-23-2009, 01:05 PM
So where did I lie jackass? I never posted that I smoked out an artist for a tattoo.

Bump so Failpass can show me where I lied.

chiefzilla1501
08-23-2009, 04:19 PM
Agreed...

That said....I live in San Diego. Back in college, I worked at a liquor store which was a popular hangout for illegals. Every month or so, border patrol would round up 3 or 4 illegals....take them back to Mexico.

About 2-3 weeks later, sure as sh*t, those same dudes would be back.

So - the real problem solving (now, just as much then) doesnt lie with "should our hospitals treat illegals or not" - it's with protecting our borders and enforcing immigration laws that have been in existance for decades.

(what part of "illegal immigrant" do people not understand?)

The revenue lost by "cheap labor" by actually enforcing immigration laws would in no way compare to the billions of dollars our country loses due to health care, inprisonment/crime, education (dont even get me started on the California education system), you name it...

At this point, I'm even willing to give temp citizenship cards to those that are here - the key here is to get the illegals to "sign the guestbook" and kick in to the tax system.

But - until our govt decides to take it seriously (whether by protecting our borders, enforcing immigration laws, and going after "cheating" businesses who hire illegals) - we'll be stuck with the same money-bleeding situation we have now.

Exactly. I would like to speed up the path to citizenship for those in the country and then use that as an opportunity to really ramp up the penalties for those illegals coming into the country. I think they need to change the citizenship laws too--if you're born from illegal immigrants in America, you should be illegal too. People get so riled up about breaking up families when an illegal family is discovered. Rather than break the family up, how about you ship the entire family back to their home country. Get them to pay taxes and oh, by the way, force Hispanic immigrants to speak English to get by. My family immigrated to this country. They had to learn a whole new language, and nobody once held their hand. There are millions of foreign immigrants (Chinese, Japanese, Indian, etc...) in this country that are here legally, and they don't ask for special attention. Imagine if an Indian person raised a stink about the schools not teaching a bilingual class.

I think I read that illegal immigrants are a $10.5B drain for California alone. And I'm sure that only counts the ones they can actually track. Not to mention the expenses of forcing elementary schools to teach English as a Second Language.

America needs to finally toughen up on immigration. That won't happen until they finally naturalize those already in the country and toughen up on those who come in in the future.

vailpass
08-24-2009, 09:16 AM
Bump so Failpass can show me where I lied.

I have shown via direct quotes where you lied. You are not man enough to admit it.

From hence forth your new delta pledge name is Senor Bullsheet.

Now go smoke some pot while getting a second-rate tattoo done on that flabby ass body of yours. I'm sure everyone in the welfare line will be mighty impressed.

KC native
08-24-2009, 09:31 AM
I have shown via direct quotes where you lied. You are not man enough to admit it.

From hence forth your new delta pledge name is Senor Bullsheet.

Now go smoke some pot while getting a second-rate tattoo done on that flabby ass body of yours. I'm sure everyone in the welfare line will be mighty impressed.

ROFL So where in those direct quotes does it say that I smoked out an artist for a tattoo? Be specific please. Before you answer you should go back and read that post again because it doesn't say what you think it does.

BTW, how's the second coming of Jake Plummer going for ya? LMAO

petegz28
08-24-2009, 09:32 AM
I have shown via direct quotes where you lied. You are not man enough to admit it.

From hence forth your new delta pledge name is Senor Bullsheet.

Now go smoke some pot while getting a second-rate tattoo done on that flabby ass body of yours. I'm sure everyone in the welfare line will be mighty impressed.

:LOL:

ClevelandBronco
08-24-2009, 09:57 AM
I have shown via direct quotes where you lied. You are not man enough to admit it.

From hence forth your new delta pledge name is Senor Bullsheet.

Now go smoke some pot while getting a second-rate tattoo done on that flabby ass body of yours. I'm sure everyone in the welfare line will be mighty impressed.

Señor.

Option-n-n to get the tilde. At least on a Mac. God help you on a Wintel.

KC native
08-24-2009, 10:00 AM
ROFL So where in those direct quotes does it say that I smoked out an artist for a tattoo? Be specific please. Before you answer you should go back and read that post again because it doesn't say what you think it does.

BTW, how's the second coming of Jake Plummer going for ya? LMAO

So I guess I don't get an answer to this. Figures. Once again when confronted with facts failpass pulls another bitch move and simply calls names and then runs away.

Iowanian
08-24-2009, 10:26 AM
http://myfirstfail.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/mff-donkeyshow.jpg

Iowanian
08-24-2009, 10:30 AM
kcnaive demonstrates a depth of knowledge on every topic...

http://myfirstfail.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/mistyatoiletfail.jpg

vailpass
08-24-2009, 01:01 PM
Señor.

Option-n-n to get the tilde. At least on a Mac. God help you on a Wintel.

I don't use kid's computers or foreign punctuation. :)

tooge
08-24-2009, 02:01 PM
to answer the OP question. If anyone hear was in mexico and got hit by a cab, they would be taken to a hospital and provided emergency care. Same policy as here. It is called having compassion and being a good person. The same probably goes for most countries.

vailpass
08-24-2009, 02:08 PM
to answer the OP question. If anyone hear was in mexico and got hit by a cab, they would be taken to a hospital and provided emergency care. Same policy as here. It is called having compassion and being a good person. The same probably goes for most countries.

ROFL Don't get to Mexico much do you? Not trying to be argumentative but you are off base by a mile here.

KC native
08-24-2009, 02:09 PM
ROFL Don't get to Mexico much do you? NOt trying to be snotty but you are off base by a mile here.

So, where did I lie fuckstick?

vailpass
08-24-2009, 02:11 PM
So, where did I lie ****stick?

Senor Bullsheet, do you ever wonder why you are so disliked on this board? You might start by your predilection for juvenille insults. If you are going to call people names you need to take it up a notch or three above the high-school level. You will still be much disliked but at least you might lend a little entertainment value.

Donger
08-24-2009, 02:14 PM
to answer the OP question. If anyone hear was in mexico and got hit by a cab, they would be taken to a hospital and provided emergency care. Same policy as here. It is called having compassion and being a good person. The same probably goes for most countries.

1) I would never set foot in Mexico.

2) I make a distinction between being in a country legally versus illegally.

Anyway, I think the meat of the matter is illegals using the ER as a free clinic, versus using it as a means of receiving emergency medical care.

KC native
08-24-2009, 02:15 PM
Senor Bullsheet, do you ever wonder why you are so disliked on this board? You might start by your predilection for juvenille insults. If you are going to call people names you need to take it up a notch or three above the high-school level. You will still be much disliked but at least you might lend a little entertainment value.

So, I didn't lie? I'll take your evasion of the question as an admission that you were wrong. Thanks Grand Wizard! Way to admit you were wrong :thumb:

petegz28
08-24-2009, 02:18 PM
1) I would never set foot in Mexico.

2) I make a distinction between being in a country legally versus illegally.

Anyway, I think the meat of the matter is illegals using the ER as a free clinic, versus using it as a means of receiving emergency medical care.

I waited for 2 1/2 hours in a Phoenix, AZ ER so while the family in front of me that didn't speak 1 lick of english could get their entire family checked out. Amzing the ENTIRE family, 5 or 6 as I remember, all were "sick". So sick they had to go to an ER.

Donger
08-24-2009, 02:19 PM
I waited for 2 1/2 hours in a Phoenix, AZ ER so while the family in front of me that didn't speak 1 lick of english could get their entire family checked out.

Well, on the plus side, you have mucho compassiono.

tooge
08-24-2009, 02:24 PM
ROFL Don't get to Mexico much do you? Not trying to be argumentative but you are off base by a mile here.

laugh all ya want. I've been to mexico hundreds of times. I'm not talking Playa del Carmen either. I went to SDSU and spent many many days and nights in Tiajuana. I did get to see a few drunken college kids taken to hospitals after passing out. Is it ideal care? Doubt it, but trust me, they dont just leave you there to die. And yes, I also see a distinction between legal and illegal, but being human is being human. Anyone here want to go to an ER that has dead and dying people lying all over the place with crying families around them? Sorry guys, the system is broken, no doubt. Not treating illegals at ERs is not the fix though.

vailpass
08-24-2009, 02:28 PM
laugh all ya want. I've been to mexico hundreds of times. I'm not talking Playa del Carmen either. I went to SDSU and spent many many days and nights in Tiajuana. I did get to see a few drunken college kids taken to hospitals after passing out. Is it ideal care? Doubt it, but trust me, they dont just leave you there to die. And yes, I also see a distinction between legal and illegal, but being human is being human. Anyone here want to go to an ER that has dead and dying people lying all over the place with crying families around them? Sorry guys, the system is broken, no doubt. Not treating illegals at ERs is not the fix though.

Dude, I respect your views but TJ is NOT Mexico anymore than Cancun is Mexico.

tooge
08-24-2009, 02:29 PM
Dude, I respect your views but TJ is NOT Mexico anymore than Cancun is Mexico.

Well, it certainly cant be any worse can it?

vailpass
08-24-2009, 02:32 PM
Well, it certainly cant be any worse can it?

TJ and the tourist spots are different in almost every way than typical mexican towns. My brother spends three months out of every year in a certain mexican village. He travels the country by VW bus. Loves the people, culture, language, everything. He will tell you about the time he almost died from the tsi tsi fly and many other tales of mexican medical care. They sometimes don't have it and if they do gringo is NOT first in line.

tooge
08-24-2009, 02:36 PM
TJ and the tourist spots are different in almost every way than typical mexican towns. My brother spends three months out of every year in a certain mexican village. He travels the country by VW bus. Loves the people, culture, language, everything. He will tell you about the time he almost died from the tsi tsi fly and many other tales of mexican medical care. They sometimes don't have it and if they do gringo is NOT first in line.

Well, since I have not been in those areas, and haven't experience health problems there personally, I guess I have to take your word. I can say that I am proud that the country I live in doesn't treat others that way.

vailpass
08-24-2009, 02:37 PM
Well, since I have not been in those areas, and haven't experience health problems there personally, I guess I have to take your word. I can say that I am proud that the country I live in doesn't treat others that way.

Yes, we have every right to be proud. It is the illegals who should hang their failed heads in shame for stealing.