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Mr. Krab
08-20-2009, 10:39 AM
It's official: Memphis will vacate 2007-08 season (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/It-s-official-Memphis-will-vacate-2007-08-seaso?urn=ncaab,184074)

By Eamonn Brennan
http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_ncaab_experts__9/ept_sports_ncaab_experts-655018105-1250774599.jpg?ymHJuwBDtINFOluK

It's the punishment most observers probably expected, and now, if the Memphis Commercial-Appeal's source is correct (http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/aug/19/source-memphis-tigers-will-forfeit-2008s-record-ba/), it's the punishment

Memphis will face: The NCAA is forcing the Tigers to vacate their 2007-08 season, which included 38 wins and an a runner-up finish in the Final Four. The C-A's source knew of no other ongoing punishments or sanctions against what is now Josh Pastner's Memphis program. Memphis is expected to announce the punishment at a press conference this morning.

If accurate, it's the second time a Memphis team has been forced to vacate a season, and the second time former Memphis coach John Calipari has led an eventually vacated team to the Final Four.

Memphis fans may be rightfully upset. After all, if vacated, their best team in the past officially never happened. That's a weird reality to have thrust upon you. But in terms of actual effects, this vacation literally does nothing: Calipari won't be punished for having Derrick Rose's fake test scores make his way into his program (not that he necessarily should be, and let's have that argument another time, shall we?); Josh Pastner won't be punished with a loss of scholarships or future tournaments or anything of the sort; and Derrick Rose is in the NBA making millions of dollars and being generally awesome at what he does. With the possible exception of Memphis fans' psyches, this hurts nobody.

Which is not to say Memphis fans won't be bitter. If the Commercial-Appeal's Geoff Calkins is any indication, the anti-Calipari sentiment will run high (http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/aug/20/geoff-calkins-ncaa-ruling-less-about-memphis-more-/). But that's largely over now. There's really no use being angry at Calipari; Memphis fans knew what they were signing up for, just as Kentucky fans do now. Memphis should, for better or worse, moved on. Plus, there's a sunny side to a vacated season: If you didn't win a national title, does it really matter anyway?

Reerun_KC
08-20-2009, 10:39 AM
ROFL

Reerun_KC
08-20-2009, 10:40 AM
I sure wish I had that gif of that Memphis player giving KU the choke sign...

Brock
08-20-2009, 10:43 AM
Happy Birthday, UP!

BCD
08-20-2009, 10:44 AM
Happy Birthday, UP!ROFL

Buck
08-20-2009, 10:45 AM
Lets say they hadn't choked away the Championship game, would Kansas have been declared champs?

Mr. Flopnuts
08-20-2009, 10:46 AM
Happy Birthday, UP!

LMAO Beat me to it. That's ruuuuf.

Demonpenz
08-20-2009, 10:46 AM
Lets say they hadn't choked away the Championship game, would Kansas have been declared champs?

it just takes away the wins of the winning team. it doesn't give the wins to the other team.

wild1
08-20-2009, 10:48 AM
This really sucks. Bruins should have been in the title game.

CoMoChief
08-20-2009, 10:59 AM
Haha. First UMass, then Memphis, more than likely Kentucky in the near future. Looks as if Calipari doesn't learn from his mistakes......or probably just doesn't care. Once he gets caught again at Kentucky he will bolt again to a new school before they have a chance to start investigating.

the Talking Can
08-20-2009, 11:04 AM
wow


good thing Calipari is clean, UK fans.....

88TG88
08-20-2009, 11:05 AM
This really sucks. Bruins should have been in the title game.

Nah, UCLA sucks baows.

CHIEFS58
08-20-2009, 11:06 AM
you know whats awesome? being a UNC fan and not having to worry about ethical matters.

wild1
08-20-2009, 11:06 AM
Nah, UCLA sucks baows.

4321

Mile High Mania
08-20-2009, 11:07 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Calipari

Quick recap of his issues...

Mr_Tomahawk
08-20-2009, 11:08 AM
you know whats awesome? being a UNC fan and not having to worry about ethical matters.

It's unfortunate they don't teach you about proper grammar and punctuation.

sedated
08-20-2009, 11:08 AM
this isn't even punishment.

Stewie
08-20-2009, 11:12 AM
Lets say they hadn't choked away the Championship game, would Kansas have been declared champs?

'penz is right. No one else is awarded the championship.

Here's how it looks for Track and Field championships when Arkansas had to vacate two national championships because of recruiting violations involving Tyson Gay:

2003 Arkansas
2004 vacated^
2005 vacated^
2006 Florida State (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_State_University_Seminoles)
2007 Florida State
2008 Florida State
2009 Texas A&M (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_A%26M_Aggies)

^ Arkansas was forced to vacate the NCAA titles in 2004 and 2005 because of recruiting violations. The titles have not been awarded to any other school.

KCtotheSB
08-20-2009, 11:15 AM
"Vacating wins" always seemed like a pretty stupid punishment for college teams. We know what happened and we know the results. I understand the "official" aspect of it, but if you really want to punish college teams then kick them out of the NCAA tourney/bowls for a few years. That'll be a swift kick in the balls and could be used as more of a deterrent to teams wanting to perform shady acts to field competitive teams.

Spicy McHaggis
08-20-2009, 11:17 AM
I would feel worse for Memphis if the guy already hadn't been busted at UMass. And if anything, ANYTHING at all, improper happens at Kentucky the wrath of God should rain down upon that institution. Kentucky knows that they're climbing into bed with the devil and in doing so, they're liable to get fucked.

That said, I think sanctions should follow a coach too. Calipari should be hit with some sort of penalty here. I think it's shit that people like Kevin Sampson can leave Oklahoma amongst wrong doings, go to Indiana and have little to no consequence befall him there.

KCtotheSB
08-20-2009, 11:18 AM
Memphis: "We won 38 games in 2007-08"

NCAA: "Nuh-uh, no you didn't."

Memphis: "Yes we did, I have the results and video right ove..."

NCAA: "Nuh-uh, no you didn't. Nuh-uh, no you didn't. Nuh-uh, no you didn't. Nuh-uh, no you didn't. Nuh-uh, no you didn't. Nuh-uh, no you didn't. Nuh-uh, no you didn't. Nuh-uh, no you didn't. Nuh-uh, no you didn't. Nuh-uh, no you didn't. Nuh-uh, no you didn't. Nuh-uh, no you didn't. Nuh-uh, no you didn't. Nuh-uh, no you didn't. Nuh-uh, no you didn't."

kysirsoze
08-20-2009, 11:18 AM
All this just makes the Kansas win all that more amazing and awesome.

sedated
08-20-2009, 11:26 AM
if anything, ANYTHING at all, improper happens at Kentucky the wrath of God should rain down upon that institution.

If anything happens at UK, they will be the next Indiana.


(and Cal will get an assistant coaching job in the NBA)

Ultra Peanut
08-20-2009, 11:29 AM
NCAA in double standard shocker.

Kansas plays with a guy whose grades were changed in high school, NCAA does nothing. UConn pays a fucking agent to get involved with a recruit, NCAA drags their feet. Memphis plays with a guy whose SAT might have been done in fishy fashion, NCAA leaps into action. What BCS bias?

Happy Birthday, UP!Genuinely do not care that much. That was a fun year and I've had some awesome, awesome stuff happen today relating to far bigger issues than college basketball.

CrazyPhuD
08-20-2009, 11:49 AM
Happy Birthday, UP!

ROFL...dude at least use some lube before you stick it in!

Saulbadguy
08-20-2009, 11:50 AM
NCAA in double standard shocker.

Kansas plays with a guy whose grades were changed in high school, NCAA does nothing. UConn pays a ****ing agent to get involved with a recruit, NCAA drags their feet. Memphis plays with a guy whose SAT might have been done in fishy fashion, NCAA leaps into action. What BCS bias?

Conference USA, no longer have a high profile coach, and it may take awhile for Memphis to get back to a "high profile" program.

If Cal was still there, this wouldn't have gotten a second look.

Reaper16
08-20-2009, 11:55 AM
NCAA in double standard shocker.

Kansas plays with a guy whose grades were changed in high school, NCAA does nothing. UConn pays a fucking agent to get involved with a recruit, NCAA drags their feet. Memphis plays with a guy whose SAT might have been done in fishy fashion, NCAA leaps into action. What BCS bias?

Absolutely.

WilliamTheIrish
08-20-2009, 12:00 PM
There hasn't been real punishment in revenue sports since SMU was given the death penalty.

Hell Darnell Jackson accepted over 5K in cash and got a beginning of the year suspension.

Reggie Bush's family was put up in a house for two years. No penalty.

Pablo
08-20-2009, 12:08 PM
This really sucks. Bruins should have been in the title game.The Bruins fucking suck and choked away their chances to appear in a title game over and over.

KCCHIEFS27
08-20-2009, 12:14 PM
I love the fact that if a player messes up in college it haunts him and follows him around for the rest of his life, but coaches can move on to another position without any consequence. It's complete BS.

HemiEd
08-20-2009, 12:23 PM
LMAO Beat me to it. That's ruuuuf.

I would suggest a suicide watch.

wild1
08-20-2009, 12:24 PM
The Bruins ****ing suck and choked away their chances to appear in a title game over and over.

More jealousy, how cute 4321

Mr. Krab
08-20-2009, 12:25 PM
I love the fact that if a player messes up in college it haunts him and follows him around for the rest of his life, but coaches can move on to another position without any consequence. It's complete BS.
How in the hell is this gonna haunt Rose? He's making millions in the pros, he doesn't give a shit.

wild1
08-20-2009, 12:27 PM
How in the hell is this gonna haunt Rose? He's making millions in the pros, he doesn't give a shit.

Call me crazy, but "character concerns" don't seem to carry as much weight in the NBA as they do in other sports.

vailpass
08-20-2009, 12:29 PM
How in the hell is this gonna haunt Rose? He's making millions in the pros, he doesn't give a shit.

I'm sure he is all broke up on the inside.

Ultra Peanut
08-20-2009, 12:47 PM
Eat some more gummy bears, Derrick. It'll be okay.

Basileus777
08-20-2009, 12:50 PM
Call me crazy, but "character concerns" don't seem to carry as much weight in the NBA as they do in other sports.

Well Rose is stupid, but that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who has ever seen him speak. There's plenty of dumb NBA stars, so it doesn't matter.

Ultra Peanut
08-20-2009, 12:53 PM
Hahahaha. The story going around now is that Rose provided a handwriting sample and it was inconclusive. So the NCAA asked for another sample, Rose didn't cough it up in time, and the NCAA meted out the penalty. On the basis of an inconclusive handwriting sample.

That is fucking hilarious. I am so glad I'm able to detach myself emotionally from sports nowadays.

sedated
08-20-2009, 12:56 PM
The NCAA does not like black people [/kanye]

Reaper16
08-20-2009, 12:57 PM
Hahahaha. The story going around now is that Rose provided a handwriting sample and it was inconclusive. So the NCAA asked for another sample, Rose didn't cough it up in time, and the NCAA meted out the penalty. On the basis of an inconclusive handwriting sample.

That is fucking hilarious. I am so glad I'm able to detach myself emotionally from sports nowadays.
Ugh.

Penalties wouldn't be handed out to KU basketball without video evidence and biometric corroboration.

Lzen
08-20-2009, 01:11 PM
Happy Birthday, UP!

That's cold, man. ROFL

Lzen
08-20-2009, 01:14 PM
you know whats awesome? being a UNC fan and not having to worry about ethical matters.

Your and idiot.

KU's probation a few years ago was due, in part, to Roy Williams program.

Fritz88
08-20-2009, 01:16 PM
Yet the Hawks still PWNED them

Ari Chi3fs
08-20-2009, 01:16 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_1OMiSrEJXnY/R_sJMNkQe_I/AAAAAAAAGms/MiWQn2SX56I/s400/chalmers.jpg

Mr. Krab
08-20-2009, 01:18 PM
Hahahaha. The story going around now is that Rose provided a handwriting sample and it was inconclusive. So the NCAA asked for another sample, Rose didn't cough it up in time, and the NCAA meted out the penalty. On the basis of an inconclusive handwriting sample.

That is fucking hilarious. I am so glad I'm able to detach myself emotionally from sports nowadays.
The story going around?


You're sounding like Athan now. I don't believe for a second that the NCAA would give out this punishment JUST based on an inconclusive handwriting sample. :shake:

Lzen
08-20-2009, 01:22 PM
NCAA in double standard shocker.

Kansas plays with a guy whose grades were changed in high school, NCAA does nothing.

I love how you guys keep bringing up the Darrell Arthur situation. Why would the NCAA do anything? The NCAA clearinghouse cleared the guy for cryin' out loud. How would Kansas be liable for anything in that situation?

C'mon, man. This sucks for Memphis and I don't think its right that Cal gets no punishment, but let's not confuse the facts about KU to make your point.

Ultra Peanut
08-20-2009, 01:37 PM
I love how you guys keep bringing up the Darrell Arthur situation. Why would the NCAA do anything? The NCAA clearinghouse cleared the guy for cryin' out loud. lol

Lzen
08-20-2009, 01:39 PM
lol

Great response.

Ultra Peanut
08-20-2009, 01:41 PM
Great response.Guess who else.

Was cleared.

By the NCAA Clearinghouse.

Saulbadguy
08-20-2009, 01:41 PM
Guess who else.

Was cleared.

By the NCAA Clearinghouse.

ROFL

Reaper16
08-20-2009, 01:45 PM
Guess who else.

Was cleared.

By the NCAA Clearinghouse.
LMAO

Lzen
08-20-2009, 01:46 PM
Ok, I did not know that. I have not followed this story as closely as some of you.

Still, I am unclear on some things.

It was first suggested that Arthur's teachers helped him by changing grades. Correct? But nothing was ever suggested that Bill Self or anyone at KU had anything to do with it.

Was it not suggested the Rose benefited from someone taking his SAT for him? Was there not some suggestion that Cal had something to do with that?

Frankly, I think Cal should be the one punished. He is obviously the one who continuously breaks the rules. It just seems that he is too slick to be caught.

Saulbadguy
08-20-2009, 01:48 PM
Frankly, I think Cal should be the one punished. He is obviously the one who continuously breaks the rules. It just seems that he is too slick to be caught.

Why just the coach?

Ultra Peanut
08-20-2009, 01:49 PM
There was nothing linking Calipari to this whole thing. If there is a thing.

http://www.sportingnews.com/college-basketball/article/2009-06-02/memphis-failure-was-trusting-ncaa-do-its-job

That is where the University of Memphis stands today, having released its formal response to the allegations the NCAA brought against the athletic department, which mostly involved women's golf but generated a media frenzy because of a couple of inflated charges against the Tigers basketball program.

Before putting him in the starting lineup, Memphis went through the initial eligibility process in great detail with the player in question -- now known to be Derrick Rose -- including special attention to the validity of his standardized test scores. Ultimately, as the report states, "He was certified by the NCAA eligibility center as a qualifier." That's kind of an important distinction that's being largely ignored.
. . .
The university was not notified the Educational Testing Service had invalidated Rose's qualifying SAT until May 2008, a month after the Tigers' Final Four season ended and after the university concluded its academic year. Memphis looked into this and stated it found "insufficient evidence" to conclude Rose did not post his own SAT score.

It's not clear whether that test was nullified because it was deemed clearly fraudulent or because Rose did not engage in defending himself. ETS requests for Rose to explain the circumstances of his qualifying test were delivered to his home address in Chicago -- not to his campus residence in Memphis.

Lzen
08-20-2009, 01:53 PM
Why just the coach?

No, that's not what I meant. I think Cal should be punished, as well. He is obviously slimy and he has gotten away with this type of thing at 2 different programs.

Lzen
08-20-2009, 01:58 PM
UP,
Did they ever say how Rose allegedly got away with having someone else take the test? Also, I remember when this story first came out, there was some discussion about whether Cal had helped him somehow. I know the University is going to deny that. And for that matter, how would they even know if he did? Also, if Rose was too dumb to pass the SAT to get into college, how on Earth did he maintain his grades to be allowed to play ball in the NCAA?

Demonpenz
08-20-2009, 02:01 PM
oh they will push you through the program. All I have to do is write my name on an NFL contract

DaWolf
08-20-2009, 02:07 PM
I love how you guys keep bringing up the Darrell Arthur situation. Why would the NCAA do anything? The NCAA clearinghouse cleared the guy for cryin' out loud. How would Kansas be liable for anything in that situation?

C'mon, man. This sucks for Memphis and I don't think its right that Cal gets no punishment, but let's not confuse the facts about KU to make your point.

I'm pretty sure that case was investigated and closed last year with no wrongdoing found. It's not even an issue unless someone brings some credible charges up...

Lzen
08-20-2009, 02:26 PM
I found this on another bb. I think the distinction should be noted. Not sure his facts are 100% correct. I really don't remember all the details since it was awhile ago. But worth a read, nonetheless.

As I understand Darrell’s case, he was a HS junior and was not passing a math class. He switched to another instructor and later passed the course. The first math teacher then claimed, years later, that Darrell did not pass the class, even though he was not privy to the final grade Darrell received after he left his class (someone correct me if I am wrong.)
The claim is that the HS administration fixed his failing grade for that course. Ok, if there was a grade change made (and I’m not saying there was), Darrell did not have the ability to actively be involved in the fraudulent administration of that grade. No one has said Darrell actively colluded in academic fraud. No one has said that Darrell should have his HS diploma taken back. KU had no way of knowing about the administration of that grade. And remember, Darrell has repeatedly stated that the HS grade fixing charges are bogus.
Derrick Rose has never claimed that he is innocent of having someone else take his SATs. Typically, when someone is innocent, they proclaim it over and over. By all accounts, it appears that Rose actively participated in this fraudulent action. It is quite possible that Darrell would have no idea if someone administratively changed a grade. It would be impossible for Derrick Rose to not know someone else took the SAT for him.

WilliamTheIrish
08-20-2009, 02:38 PM
That quote is hilarious.

Darrell (according to anonymous post) claims he's innocent, and because Rose has not publically proclaimed his own innocence,(enough to satisfy a BB poster from where?) he's somehow more guilty than a guy who actually had his grades changed?

Lzen
08-20-2009, 02:46 PM
That quote is hilarious.

Darrell (according to anonymous post) claims he's innocent, and because Rose has not publically proclaimed his own innocence,(enough to satisfy a BB poster from where?) he's somehow more guilty than a guy who actually had his grades changed?

I know you can't stand that an evil KU player could be found innocent, but you gotta be kidding me. I thought you were smart enough to understand the difference.

First Darrell did proclaim his innocence. That much I do remember reading at the time the claim first appeared in the news. They (DA and family) were actually considering suing the teacher and the Dallas television station reporting that false information.

The part I'm uncertain of is the instructor change.

Use your brain. Don't you think Rose not saying anything actually says a lot. I certainly do and apparently most people with a shred of common sense do, as well.

WilliamTheIrish
08-20-2009, 02:47 PM
Oh and just for the record, Arthur's HS was guilty of the grade changing a few years earlier. Also, several schools backed off his recruitment which ended with Arthur having his "dream".

The entire thing makes the NCAA Clearinghouse look horribly bad.

Lzen
08-20-2009, 02:55 PM
Oh and just for the record, Arthur's HS was guilty of the grade changing a few years earlier. Also, several schools backed off his recruitment which ended with Arthur having his "dream".

The entire thing makes the NCAA Clearinghouse look horribly bad.

I wonder what you will say to this. Forgive me, but I must quote once again:

The thread on the memphis forum is the same crap, all complaining that "ku got away with the same thing". They still don't understand the difference between the two situations apparently.

For any UK/Memphis fans who wander over, i'll explain it one more time (feel free to share this with any MU/KSU tards that give you crap):

Arthur's grades were changed by a teacher the week before their state championship his JUNIOR YEAR. (meaning it had nothing to do with getting into college)

The Dallas school board determined there was no cause to revoke his diploma.
http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/tv/stories/wfaa090220_lj_shipp.361e8659.html

Thus, there was nothing for the NCAA to investigate with KU. In fact the NCAA never even opened an official investigation like they did with Memphis.

Something that happened in the middle of his Junior year is out of the jurisdiction of the NCAA, especially when the independent investigation said he graduated anyway.

Rose on the other hand (presumably) cheated on his SAT for the explicit purpose of gaining entry to college, and obvious violation.

WilliamTheIrish
08-20-2009, 03:13 PM
What I would say is exactly what I said previously.

The NCAA Clearinghouse said both were eligible. The NCAA, used the clearinghouse to protect one player, who had a grade changed which helped give him enough core courses to become eligible to play at an NCAA D-1 school. This same school had the exact same issue one year earlier.

But that same body claims that another player who was also cleared, doesn't get the protection of the NCAA clearinghouse, who proclaimed him eligible. Rose and Memphis shouldn't suffer any retribution either. (IMO)

From the link you provided: Arthur didn't proclaim anything other than this:

"It's bogus," said Arthur, "just because I don't see how you can bring it up seven years later so I don't really don't have a comment on it right now."


And even though it has been determined that Arthur did not pass or complete at least one of his required classes, DISD will not pursue revocation of his high school diploma.

Like I said, it makes the Clearinghouse look like a pretty weak organization. And to be honest, I find the World Wide Wes' of this world no more slimy than the organization that is the NCAA.

ROYC75
08-20-2009, 03:16 PM
I wonder what you will say to this. Forgive me, but I must quote once again:

Lil Buddy, you are waisting your time with the Tiggers ( MU & Memphis) as well as any foe against the Jayhawks.

They just refuse to understand because of their dislike of KU.

Kinda sweet isn't it?:D

ROYC75
08-20-2009, 03:17 PM
Oh and just for the record, Arthur's HS was guilty of the grade changing a few years earlier. Also, several schools backed off his recruitment which ended with Arthur having his "dream".

The entire thing makes the NCAA Clearinghouse look horribly bad.

This is true ...... The NCAA is at wrong here too.

WilliamTheIrish
08-20-2009, 03:22 PM
Personally, I think the NCAA knew damn well these two 5*'s were trouble but looked the other way until it became necessary take some action after reporters uncovered what their clearinghouse apparently could not.

Why would they allow themselves to look so bad? Because they got exactly what they wanted out of the deal: A shiot ton of money for the NCAA to have Rose lead his team to the title game.

And it's not just Arthur and Rose. Go back to the Maggette issue of early 2000's. He admitted in Federal court he took money. No penalty for Duke. Reggie Bush? Same thing. Troy Smith of Ohio St. Took cash from a booster. No penalty.

KevB
08-20-2009, 03:25 PM
I don't want to get in the way of this conversation with facts, but Rose has proclaimed his innocence (as if that even matters for goodness sake).

Rose quotes (http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/news/story?id=4381787)

That said, the timing of when various transgressions may or may not have taken place are irrelevant. Because it was Arthur's JUNIOR year it doesn't matter? Are you serious? Sure it matters. Should KU be held accountable for that? No, probably not. He was cleared by the NCAA. But the point is, so was Rose. He took the test as a high school student. He wasn't at Memphis yet. Should Memphis be held accountable? I don't know, should they assign a guardian to the kid to be with him 100% of the time after he commits? Because that's what we're essentially saying.

If Memphis/Calipari actively helped the kid cheat, then sure, punishment is warranted. But that has never been insinuated by the NCAA. If Rose acted on his own, the NCAA cleared him and Memphis wasn't alerted about the possible transgression until after the season......how the hell can they be held accountable?

Another good point made by Doyel (shocking that I'm saying such a thing) :

NCAA is a joke, as we know (http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/5881996/16724605/1)

POND_OF_RED
08-20-2009, 03:29 PM
I'm putting an asterisk by KU's championship then. No way should you be playing a championship game against a team that didn't win a single game that year. :p

alanm
08-20-2009, 03:32 PM
this isn't even punishment.Why is it that their not taking away scholarships and post season play? Had this been the football team they would probably be under the death penalty by now like SMU was at one time. :shake:

DaWolf
08-20-2009, 05:29 PM
Paul Dee, the chairman for the COI, said in a teleconference that even though Memphis was not aware of Rose's questionable test score until midway through his freshman year, once the score was invalidated by Educational Testing Service, Rose no longer met the initial eligibility standards.

"This is a situation of strict liability," Dee said. "If he is ineligible and does not meet initial requirements, the penalties are related back to that time and a determination is then made: Did he play in any contests after the fact? In this case, he did."

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4412279

If you relate the above to the Arthur situation, then it would seem KU would be liable only if they knew the grades were changed and he was ineligible sometime during the season, yet they continued to play him...

orangeuawitch
08-20-2009, 05:42 PM
Happy Birthday UP!

Skip Towne
08-20-2009, 05:50 PM
I think UP should be punished because fuck him.

KevB
08-20-2009, 06:27 PM
Interesting perspective from DeCourcy.

Quite the double standard (http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/article/2009-08-20/ncaa-let-rose-play-so-why-does-memphis-have-pay)

Ultra Peanut
08-20-2009, 07:29 PM
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

BWillie
08-20-2009, 07:39 PM
Honest question.....if Kansas would of lost would they of won the NCAA Championship by default?

irishjayhawk
08-20-2009, 07:52 PM
What I would say is exactly what I said previously.

The NCAA Clearinghouse said both were eligible. The NCAA, used the clearinghouse to protect one player, who had a grade changed which helped give him enough core courses to become eligible to play at an NCAA D-1 school. This same school had the exact same issue one year earlier.

But that same body claims that another player who was also cleared, doesn't get the protection of the NCAA clearinghouse, who proclaimed him eligible. Rose and Memphis shouldn't suffer any retribution either. (IMO)

From the link you provided: Arthur didn't proclaim anything other than this:

"It's bogus," said Arthur, "just because I don't see how you can bring it up seven years later so I don't really don't have a comment on it right now."




Like I said, it makes the Clearinghouse look like a pretty weak organization. And to be honest, I find the World Wide Wes' of this world no more slimy than the organization that is the NCAA.

That's what it boils down to. The Clearinghouse is ridiculous. The whole World Wide Wes story is ridiculous just for the fact that everyone ignores it's going on. Just like everyone ignores - yet feigns surprise - when athletes are outed as weed smokers.

The whole thing is one big circle jerk for money with meaningless violations in place for nothing more than to take in more money.

banyon
08-20-2009, 07:54 PM
Honest question.....if Kansas would of lost would they of won the NCAA Championship by default?

Ask Georgetown if people think they beat Villanova in 84'.

banyon
08-20-2009, 07:56 PM
The article says this was our best season, 1972-3 had the same outcome (national runner-up, so it's arguable.

sedated
08-20-2009, 07:59 PM
Honest question.....if Kansas would of lost would they of won the NCAA Championship by default?

no.

Chiefs_Mike_Topeka
08-20-2009, 08:40 PM
I'm putting an asterisk by KU's championship then. No way should you be playing a championship game against a team that didn't win a single game that year. :p



Thats good to know; I am sure all the NCAA record books and hell even KU's own media guide will make sure to note your change. I expect to see KU add an asterisk on the banner in the field house any day now!

:D

underEJ
08-20-2009, 08:55 PM
I find it hard to care if he cheated on his SAT, or if Arthur's teacher changed a grade for him. There is the consequence of public shame being levied on them, but I doubt that it matters to them or they wouldn't have done it in the first place.

These things can sometimes be such petty rules, and sometimes be so hard to prove and most of the media and officials have their own agendas when they comment on incidents of NCAA investigations. I really find the whole thing meaningless.

Ultra Peanut
08-20-2009, 10:45 PM
NCAA in double standard shocker.

Kansas plays with a guy whose grades were changed in high school, NCAA does nothing. UConn pays a fucking agent to get involved with a recruit, NCAA drags their feet. Memphis plays with a guy whose SAT might have been done in fishy fashion, NCAA leaps into action. What BCS bias?

Genuinely do not care that much. That was a fun year and I've had some awesome, awesome stuff happen today relating to far bigger issues than college basketball.BWillie gave me neg rep for this post.

Why are Kansas fans still so angry about a game they won?

sedated
08-20-2009, 10:53 PM
BWillie gave me neg rep for this post.

Why are Kansas fans still so angry about a game they won?

do not judge all KU fans by BWillie

Reaper16
08-20-2009, 10:53 PM
BWillie gave me neg rep for this post.

Why are Kansas fans still so angry about a game they won?
Not only does the Kansas fanbase feel entitled to Final Four-level success, they also apparently feel entitled to adoration from everyone else. They don't like it when either of those things don't happen.

Guru
08-20-2009, 11:13 PM
I'm putting an asterisk by KU's championship then. No way should you be playing a championship game against a team that didn't win a single game that year. :pEven with me being a KU fan, that was funny.:clap:

Tiger's Fan
08-21-2009, 12:00 AM
Not only does the Kansas fanbase feel entitled to Final Four-level success, they also apparently feel entitled to adoration from everyone else. They don't like it when either of those things don't happen.

Excellent. You know your place.

KC_Connection
08-21-2009, 03:37 AM
It's become obvious to me that William Wesley does Calipari's dirty work for him. Wes gets the top recruits into the school with promises of big money in the NBA (and he does it through any way possible), and Calipari gets a strong program every year. It's a pretty good racket they have going on, and I think you would have to be naive to think that it wasn't going on with Derrick Rose.

That isn't to say that Bill Self's programs are entirely clean, either, but the NCAA is clearly on to Calipari.

KC_Connection
08-21-2009, 03:43 AM
Not only does the Kansas fanbase feel entitled to Final Four-level success, they also apparently feel entitled to adoration from everyone else. They don't like it when either of those things don't happen.
Great expectations lead to great success.

KC_Connection
08-21-2009, 03:45 AM
And no, I don't feel bad for Memphis (or Kentucky, when the same thing inevitably happens in the future). Anybody that gets involved with Calipari should know what they are getting into.

Lzen
08-21-2009, 07:45 AM
I'm putting an asterisk by KU's championship then. No way should you be playing a championship game against a team that didn't win a single game that year. :p

If anything, it makes our title that much better. They cheated and still couldn't win it. :D

sedated
08-21-2009, 08:22 AM
<img src="http://bp1.blogger.com/_vQTss_8TmuM/SB-ncfCrjrI/AAAAAAAAAKk/Ecv1bqTKpR8/s200/DorseyChoke.jpg">

WilliamTheIrish
08-21-2009, 09:02 AM
It's become obvious to me that William Wesley does Calipari's dirty work for him. Wes gets the top recruits into the school with promises of big money in the NBA (and he does it through any way possible), and Calipari gets a strong program every year. It's a pretty good racket they have going on, and I think you would have to be naive to think that it wasn't going on with Derrick Rose.

That isn't to say that Bill Self's programs are entirely clean, either, but the NCAA is clearly on to Calipari.

Wes has only made the mistake of being very public. Kurtis Townsend is a recruiter extraordinaire. But he's no different than WWWes. Just doesn't get the publicity.

Dalonte Hill? Same thing.

Brock
08-21-2009, 09:13 AM
Wes has only made the mistake of being very public. Kurtis Townsend is a recruiter extraordinaire. But he's no different than WWWes. Just doesn't get the publicity.

Dalonte Hill? Same thing.

How do these guys get paid? I think I'm in the wrong career.

Mr. Plow
08-21-2009, 09:57 AM
Not only does the Kansas fanbase feel entitled to Final Four-level success, they also apparently feel entitled to adoration from everyone else. They don't like it when either of those things don't happen.


ROFL

Good. At least you know where you fit in.

the Talking Can
08-21-2009, 10:00 AM
Wes has only made the mistake of being very public. Kurtis Townsend is a recruiter extraordinaire. But he's no different than WWWes. Just doesn't get the publicity.

Dalonte Hill? Same thing.

point taken, but not quite accurate

WWW is not employed by a NCAA sanctioned school...he is untouchable and can operate on Cal's behalf with impunity while also giving Cal the perfect deniability...

i only wish Townsend was another WWW

WilliamTheIrish
08-21-2009, 10:13 AM
How do these guys get paid? I think I'm in the wrong career.

Should have been an AAU coach, I guess.

WilliamTheIrish
08-21-2009, 11:08 AM
point taken, but not quite accurate

WWW is not employed by a NCAA sanctioned school...he is untouchable and can operate on Cal's behalf with impunity while also giving Cal the perfect deniability...

i only wish Townsend was another WWW

True and I should have been clear on that. I'm still not clear on what WWW can do that any assisant can't do.

Mr. Plow
08-21-2009, 12:06 PM
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?key=/ncaa/ncaa/ncaa+news/ncaa+news+online/2009/division+i/memphis+penalties+include+vacation+of+wins+in+2007-08_08_20_09_ncaa_news


The committee found that a basketball student-athlete competed while ineligible during the entire 2007-08 season due to an invalidated SAT score.

The Chicago Public Schools Internal Audit division first contacted Memphis officials regarding potential academic issues involving the student-athlete in October 2007. During that initial investigation, the Illinois Office of the Inspector General also received an allegation that irregularities may have occurred with the SAT exam the student-athlete took during May 2007 in Detroit.

The university began an independent investigation, which included a November 2007 interview of the student-athlete. The university was unable to substantiate the allegations of academic improprieties and cleared the student-athlete to compete during the 2007-08 season.

the Talking Can
08-21-2009, 12:51 PM
True and I should have been clear on that. I'm still not clear on what WWW can do that any assisant can't do.

contact agents, contact families and players at any time while coaches are dictated strict windows in which to recruit by the NCAA...unlimited text and phone calls, both of which are regulated by the NCAA....give money, perks, buy tickets, all of which is untrackable,


basically WWW can ignore all the rules that the NCAA forces coaches to play by....which is a million tiny things....he's basically Cal beyond the reach of the NCAA

WilliamTheIrish
08-21-2009, 02:33 PM
contact agents, contact families and players at any time while coaches are dictated strict windows in which to recruit by the NCAA...unlimited text and phone calls, both of which are regulated by the NCAA....give money, perks, buy tickets, all of which is untrackable,


basically WWW can ignore all the rules that the NCAA forces coaches to play by....which is a million tiny things....he's basically Cal beyond the reach of the NCAA

I'm of the belief that the NCAA basically created guys like WWWes. The rules for recruitment/compliance have created an entire new bureaucracy within the university.
I'm not one who thinks Calipari should pay for whatever indiscretions that happened at Memphis or that WWWes is bad for the sport.
I think there are just as many Ass't coaches who do the exact same thing, are as dirty, but are allowed to freely move from place to place in the same manner as head coaches.

In the end, I'm there watching every Monday, Wed, and Saturday. (just like everybody else)

the Talking Can
08-21-2009, 07:54 PM
I'm of the belief that the NCAA basically created guys like WWWes. The rules for recruitment/compliance have created an entire new bureaucracy within the university.
I'm not one who thinks Calipari should pay for whatever indiscretions that happened at Memphis or that WWWes is bad for the sport.
I think there are just as many Ass't coaches who do the exact same thing, are as dirty, but are allowed to freely move from place to place in the same manner as head coaches.

In the end, I'm there watching every Monday, Wed, and Saturday. (just like everybody else)

i mostly agree, i don't have any illusions about what goes on, and i know ku isn't lilly white....

they need to let kids go pro and that would remove a lot of this bs...

but cal kind of sticks in my craw...it's like everyone is knocking off 7-11's and Cal is knocking off banks....

Saulbadguy
08-21-2009, 08:14 PM
contact agents, contact families and players at any time while coaches are dictated strict windows in which to recruit by the NCAA...unlimited text and phone calls, both of which are regulated by the NCAA....give money, perks, buy tickets, all of which is untrackable,


basically WWW can ignore all the rules that the NCAA forces coaches to play by....which is a million tiny things....he's basically Cal beyond the reach of the NCAA

KU just has Doug Compton - not comparable to WWW but still better than what the rest of the Big XII has to offer.

WilliamTheIrish
08-21-2009, 09:09 PM
Did Compton take Don Davis' place?