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jAZ
08-20-2009, 02:46 PM
http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1917525,00.html

Thursday, Aug. 20, 2009
The GOP Has Become a Party of Nihilists
By Joe Klein

In one of those awful collisions between public policy and real life, I was in the midst of an awkward conversation about end-of-life issues with my father when Sarah Palin raised the remarkable idea that the Obama Administration's attempt to include such issues in its health-care-reform proposal would lead to "death panels." Let me tell you something about my family situation, a common one these days, in order to illuminate the obscenity of Palin's formulation and the cowardice of those, like Senator Charles Grassley of Iowa, the lead Republican negotiator on the Senate Finance Committee, who have refused to contest her claim.

Both my parents are 89 years old. They have been inseparable, with the exception of my father's service in World War II, since kindergarten. My mother has lost her sight and is quite frail. My father takes care of her and my aunt Rose, lovingly, with some — but not enough — private help at their home in central Pennsylvania. One night in early August, I had a terrible scare. I called home and Aunt Rose was freaking out; she didn't know where my father was. All the worst possibilities crossed my mind — it turned out he was just getting the mail — as well as a very difficult reality: if he'd had a stroke, I would have had no idea about what he'd want me to do. I had lunch with him the next day to discuss this. (See 10 players in health-care reform.)

It wasn't easy. My dad is very proud and independent. He didn't really want to talk about what came next. He was pretty sure, but not certain, that he'd signed a living will. He was very reluctant to sign an enduring power of attorney to empower me, or my brother, to make decisions about his care and my mom's if he were incapacitated. I tried to convince him that it was important to make some plans, but I didn't have the strategic experience that a professional would have — and, in his eyes, I didn't have the standing. I may be a grandfather myself, but I'm still just a kid in my dad's mind. Clearly, an independent, professional authority figure was needed. And this is what the "death panels" are all about: making end-of-life counseling free and available through Medicare. (I'd make it mandatory, based on recent experience, but hey, I'm not entirely clearheaded on the subject right now.)

Given the heinous dust that's been raised, it seems likely that end-of-life counseling will be dropped from the health-reform legislation. But that's a small point, compared with the larger issue that has clouded this summer: How can you sustain a democracy if one of the two major political parties has been overrun by nihilists? And another question: How can you maintain the illusion of journalistic impartiality when one of the political parties has jumped the shark?

I'm not going to try. I've written countless "Democrats in Disarray" stories over the years and been critical of the left on numerous issues in the past. This year, the liberal insistence on a marginally relevant public option has been a tactical mistake that has enabled the right's "government takeover" disinformation jihad. There have been times when Democrats have run demagogic scare campaigns on issues like Social Security and Medicare. There are more than a few Democrats who believe, in practice, that government should be run for the benefit of government employees' unions. There are Democrats who are so solicitous of civil liberties that they would undermine legitimate covert intelligence collection. There are others who mistrust the use of military power under almost any circumstances. But these are policy differences, matters of substance. The most liberal members of the Democratic caucus — Senator Russ Feingold in the Senate, Representative Dennis Kucinich in the House, to name two — are honorable public servants who make their arguments based on facts. They don't retail outright lies. Hyperbole and distortion certainly exist on the left, but they are a minor chord in the Democratic Party.

It is a very different story among Republicans. To be sure, there are honorable conservatives, trying to do the right thing. There is a legitimate, if wildly improbable, fear that Obama's plan will start a process that will end with a health-care system entirely controlled by the government. There are conservatives — Senator Lamar Alexander, Representative Mike Pence, among many others — who make their arguments based on facts. But they have been overwhelmed by nihilists and hypocrites more interested in destroying the opposition and gaining power than in the public weal. The philosophically supple party that existed as recently as George H.W. Bush's presidency has been obliterated. The party's putative intellectuals — people like the Weekly Standard's William Kristol — are prosaic tacticians who make precious few substantive arguments but oppose health-care reform mostly because passage would help Barack Obama's political prospects. In 1993, when the Clintons tried health-care reform, the Republican John Chafee offered a creative (in fact, superior) alternative — which Kristol quashed with his famous "Don't Help Clinton" fax to the troops. There is no Republican health-care alternative in 2009. The same people who rail against a government takeover of health care tried to enforce a government takeover of Terri Schiavo's end-of-life decisions. And when Palin floated the "death panel" canard, the number of prominent Republicans who rose up to call her out could be counted on one hand.

A striking example of the prevailing cravenness was Senator Johnny Isakson of Georgia, who has authored end-of-life counseling provisions and told the Washington Post that comparing such counseling to euthanasia was nuts — but then quickly retreated when he realized that he had sided with the reality-based community against his Rush Limbaugh-led party. Mitt Romney, the Republican front-runner for President according to most polls, actually created a universal-health-care plan in Massachusetts that looks very much like the proposed Obamacare, but he spends much of his time trying to fudge the similarities and was AWOL on the "death panels." Why are these men so reluctant to be rational in public?

An argument can be made that this is nothing new. Dwight Eisenhower tiptoed around Joe McCarthy. Obama reminded an audience in Colorado that opponents of Social Security in the 1930s "said that everybody was going to have to wear dog tags and that this was a plot for the government to keep track of everybody ... These struggles have always boiled down to a contest between hope and fear." True enough. There was McCarthyism in the 1950s, the John Birch Society in the 1960s. But there was a difference in those times: the crazies were a faction — often a powerful faction — of the Republican Party, but they didn't run it. The neofascist Father Coughlin had a huge radio audience in the 1930s, but he didn't have the power to control and silence the elected leaders of the party that Limbaugh — who, if not the party's leader, is certainly the most powerful Republican extant — does now. Until recently, the Republican Party contained a strong moderate wing. It was a Republican, the lawyer Joseph Welch, who delivered the coup de grâce to Senator McCarthy when he said, "Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" Where is the Republican who would dare say that to Rush Limbaugh, who has compared the President of the United States to Adolf Hitler?

This is a difficult situation for the President. Cynicism about government is always easy, even if it now seems apparent that it was government action — by both Obama and, yes, George W. Bush — that prevented a reprise of the Great Depression. I watched Obama as he traveled the Rocky Mountain West, holding health-care forums, trying to lance the boil by eliciting questions from the irrational minority that had pulverized the public forums held by lesser pols. He would search the crowds for a first-class nutter who might challenge him on "death panels," but he was constantly disappointed. In Colorado, he locked in on an angry-looking fellow in a teal T shirt — but the guy's fury was directed at the right-wing disinformation campaign. Obama seemed to sag. He had to bring up the "death panels" himself.

This may tell us something about the actual state of play on health care: the nutters are a tiny minority; the Republicans are curling themselves into a tight, white, extremist bubble — but there may be enough of them raising dust to render creative public policy impossible. Some righteous anger seems called for, but that's not Obama's style. He will have to come up with something, though — and he will have to do it without the tiniest scintilla of help from the Republican Party.

mlyonsd
08-20-2009, 02:50 PM
What a bunch of whining drivel.

ChiTown
08-20-2009, 02:56 PM
What a bunch of whining drivel.

+1

Mr. Kotter
08-20-2009, 02:56 PM
What a bunch of whining drivel.

Sounds like you had hopes of something less than that from jIZ. :shrug:

You should have known better....

dirk digler
08-20-2009, 03:02 PM
What a bunch of whining drivel.

kind of like all the health care protesters ;)

wild1
08-20-2009, 03:05 PM
doing nothing > crapping on everything

blaise
08-20-2009, 03:05 PM
jAZ must have just loved this piece. A blindingly one sided view of the parties.

Chief Henry
08-20-2009, 03:06 PM
Joe Klein is significant in what way again ?

BucEyedPea
08-20-2009, 04:58 PM
http://www.ratemyeverything.net/image/6212/0/Slavery_Gets_Shit_Done_T-Shirt.ashx

chiefzilla1501
08-20-2009, 05:29 PM
Time Magazine has become the liberal version of Fox News. This piece shouldn't surprise anyone.

Taco John
08-20-2009, 05:44 PM
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/6417/nihilists.jpg

We believe in nothing, Lebowski. Nothing. And tomorrow we come back and we cut off your chonson.

banyon
08-20-2009, 05:48 PM
Man, this is the laziest group of knee jerk reactions I've read to a pretty detailed article in a while.

What's the matter, is everyone illiterate, or is the article right and people can't comment with substance?

googlegoogle
08-20-2009, 08:10 PM
Joe Klein is a tool. Every state that has tried some form of universal coverage has failed.

This may tell us something about the actual state of play on health care: the nutters are a tiny minority; the Republicans are curling themselves into a tight, white, extremist bubble — but there may be enough of them raising dust to render creative public policy impossible. Some righteous anger seems called for, but that's not Obama's style. He will have to come up with something, though — and he will have to do it without the tiniest scintilla of help from the Republican Party.

Those comments are right out of the Democrat playbook. Everyone that opposes this is EVIL and a RACIST.

LOL.

Folks, seriously the people that elected that goofball need to be kicked out of the USA. Guess that Jew doesn't know what country and what 'race' gave him an opportunity and gave Israel life to begin with.

Dog that bites the hand that feeds him.

banyon
08-20-2009, 08:13 PM
Joe Klein is a tool. Every state that has tried some form of universal coverage has failed.

:spock:

Where are these "failed states"?

Dr. Van Halen
08-20-2009, 08:49 PM
Those comments are right out of the Democrat playbook. Everyone that opposes this is EVIL and a RACIST.

LOL.



Folks, seriously the people that elected that goofball need to be kicked out of the USA. Guess that Jew doesn't know what country and what 'race' gave him an opportunity and gave Israel life to begin with.

Dog that bites the hand that feeds him.

"I don't believe that all Republicans are racists, but I'm starting to believe that all racists are Republicans." -Something I overheard the other day.

Someone ban this hate-spewing moron.

banyon
08-20-2009, 08:52 PM
Joe Klein is a tool. Every state that has tried some form of universal coverage has failed.

This may tell us something about the actual state of play on health care: the nutters are a tiny minority; the Republicans are curling themselves into a tight, white, extremist bubble — but there may be enough of them raising dust to render creative public policy impossible. Some righteous anger seems called for, but that's not Obama's style. He will have to come up with something, though — and he will have to do it without the tiniest scintilla of help from the Republican Party.

Those comments are right out of the Democrat playbook. Everyone that opposes this is EVIL and a RACIST.

LOL.

Folks, seriously the people that elected that goofball need to be kicked out of the USA. Guess that Jew doesn't know what country and what 'race' gave him an opportunity and gave Israel life to begin with.

Dog that bites the hand that feeds him.

f*cking racist idiot. When did we start getting infested and tolerating racial idiocy on this site?

Taco John
08-20-2009, 09:47 PM
f*cking racist idiot. When did we start getting infested and tolerating racial idiocy on this site?

For at least as long as I've been here.

banyon
08-20-2009, 09:49 PM
For at least as long as I've been here.

It seems like it's here on a daily basis now though. I can't ever remember it being this bad.

googlegoogle
08-20-2009, 09:57 PM
f*cking racist idiot. When did we start getting infested and tolerating racial idiocy on this site?

You can leave this tolerant country if you don't like it you RACIST NAZI.

banyon
08-20-2009, 09:58 PM
You can leave this tolerant country if you don't like it you RACIST NAZI.

:spock:

Weren't you the one just harping on Jews?

googlegoogle
08-20-2009, 09:59 PM
It seems like it's here on a daily basis now though. I can't ever remember it being this bad.

Thats right jackass. We shouldn't ever ever fight liberal bullsh-it like you spout daily.

Go suck Barney Franks dic k.

googlegoogle
08-20-2009, 10:00 PM
:spock:

Weren't you the one just harping on Jews?

I'm harping on CP's no. 1 demagogue.

banyon
08-20-2009, 10:01 PM
Thats right jackass. We shouldn't ever ever fight liberal bullsh-it like you spout daily.

Go suck Barney Franks dic k.

Yeah, how I haven't had more rational discussions with someone of your refinement and intellect is truly a quandary.

banyon
08-20-2009, 10:02 PM
I'm harping on CP's no. 1 demagogue.

This was you right?

Folks, seriously the people that elected that goofball need to be kicked out of the USA. Guess that Jew doesn't know what country and what 'race' gave him an opportunity and gave Israel life to begin with.

Dog that bites the hand that feeds him.

googlegoogle
08-20-2009, 10:05 PM
"I don't believe that all Republicans are racists, but I'm starting to believe that all racists are Republicans." -Something I overheard the other day.

Someone ban this hate-spewing moron.


Hey asshole. We know your politics and your games. The facts your man called anyone who doesn't back his politics racist. And you have the audacity to call others racist. You POS.

Now fuc* off and die.

banyon
08-20-2009, 10:06 PM
LOL at this stupid rep comment:

**** Yourself you RACIST piece of garbage. Leave this country and move to CUBA! Adios!

You know I'm caucasian, right? Why should I go to Cuba?

dirk digler
08-20-2009, 10:07 PM
Who is the googlegoogle douchebag and where did he come from?

Taco John
08-20-2009, 10:08 PM
I think it's one of TC's many accounts.

banyon
08-20-2009, 10:10 PM
I think it's one of TC's many accounts.

That would make sense with his irritation at people asking him to search for things when he would just make stuff up.

dirk digler
08-20-2009, 10:12 PM
I think it's one of TC's many accounts.

Great

googlegoogle
08-20-2009, 10:12 PM
This was you right?

Yes, and that congressman is just dirty demagogue just like you.

What fake indignation. Banyon has been trying 24/7 to get me banned.

Hey douchebag why don't you make a big donation. Maybe then your tireless efforts might succeed.

And you back this 100% don't you.

This may tell us something about the actual state of play on health care: the nutters are a tiny minority; the Republicans are curling themselves into a tight, white, extremist bubble

googlegoogle
08-20-2009, 10:14 PM
Who is the googlegoogle douchebag and where did he come from?

Why am i a douchebag? Explain it douchebag.

banyon
08-20-2009, 10:16 PM
Yes, and that congressman is just dirty demagogue just like you.

What fake indignation. Banyon has been trying 24/7 to get me banned.

Hey douchebag why don't you make a big donation. Maybe then your tireless efforts might succeed.

And you back this 100% don't you.

This may tell us something about the actual state of play on health care: the nutters are a tiny minority; the Republicans are curling themselves into a tight, white, extremist bubble

If I was trying to get you banned, I would report your posts and complain to the moderators. I think I've only done that to one person, and that was - ahem, shut your mouth - whose behavior at the time (a couple of years back I think) was getting out of control as he was personally threatening people, so unless you're him, I haven't done it to you.

Stop being a whiny douche, but I'm not going to just sit here and pretend you weren't being a racist a**hole, when you were.

dirk digler
08-20-2009, 10:17 PM
Why am i a douchebag? Explain it douchebag.

Tom is this you?

googlegoogle
08-20-2009, 10:19 PM
Tom is this you?

Your a DICKHEAD. Say it loud and proud. DI*K is a DI*KHEAD.

dirk digler
08-20-2009, 10:23 PM
Your a DICKHEAD. Say it loud and proud. DI*K is a DI*KHEAD.

Why all the anger Tom?

Dallas Chief
08-20-2009, 10:25 PM
Man, this is the laziest group of knee jerk reactions I've read to a pretty detailed article in a while.

What's the matter, is everyone illiterate, or is the article right and people can't comment with substance?

Man I love the Planet! The only place you can see knee jerk reactions to other peoples knee jerk reactions. Good stuff!

googlegoogle
08-20-2009, 10:28 PM
If I was trying to get you banned, I would report your posts and complain to the moderators. I think I've only done that to one person, and that was - ahem, shut your mouth - whose behavior at the time (a couple of years back I think) was getting out of control as he was personally threatening people, so unless you're him, I haven't done it to you.



Stop being a whiny douche, but I'm not going to just sit here and pretend you weren't being a racist a**hole, when you were.

LOL. You're whole reply made me laugh. ROFL

I said nothing that would get me banned you dumb moron.

Where's this racism you speak of?

googlegoogle
08-20-2009, 10:29 PM
Why all the anger Tom?

Why all your anger Jerry? Say it , Dirk the douchebag.

banyon
08-20-2009, 10:31 PM
LOL. You're whole reply made me laugh. ROFL

I said nothing that would get me banned you dumb moron.

Where's this racism you speak of?

Yes you did, you evaded the language filter in this very thread.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/faq.php?faq=bannable#faq_ban_filter

Word Filter Evasion
We have built in filters for some cuss words, adding spaces, # keys, etc to get around the filter.

dirk digler
08-20-2009, 10:32 PM
Why all your anger Jerry? Say it , Dirk the douchebag.

LMAO I am not angry but I am wondering why you are

googlegoogle
08-20-2009, 10:36 PM
Yes you did, you evaded the language filter in this very thread.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/faq.php?faq=bannable#faq_ban_filter

Word Filter Evasion
We have built in filters for some cuss words, adding spaces, # keys, etc to get around the filter.

Weak and typical.

googlegoogle
08-20-2009, 10:36 PM
LMAO I am not angry but I am wondering why you are:spock:

Show me where i was angry?

banyon
08-20-2009, 10:37 PM
Weak and typical.

So, you recognize now you were wrong, then?

Chiefshrink
08-20-2009, 10:40 PM
:spock:

Where are these "failed states"?

Massachussetts-initiated by a fake Republican in Romney and may as well throw in California. These are 2 states in which our country will be emulating if this healthscare bill passes.:spock:

banyon
08-20-2009, 10:41 PM
Massachussetts-initiated by a fake Republican in Romney and may as well throw in California. These are 2 states in which our country will be emulating if this healthscare bill passes.:spock:

MA has failed? That's funny, their website is still up and everything.

googlegoogle
08-20-2009, 10:52 PM
Massachussetts-initiated by a fake Republican in Romney and may as well throw in California. These are 2 states in which our country will be emulating if this healthscare bill passes.:spock:

Hawaii.


And this does look bad for Romney. Costs are rising.
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/20/romney.health.care/

jAZ
08-20-2009, 11:10 PM
For at least as long as I've been here.

That's true.

dirk digler
08-21-2009, 07:35 AM
:spock:

Show me where i was angry?

Pretty much every post on page 1 of this thread Tom

Donger
08-21-2009, 08:13 AM
So, basically, Republicans are big meanies because they won't help Obama overcome the opposition within his own party to pass legislation that the vast majority of them don't support?

blaise
08-21-2009, 08:15 AM
Man, this is the laziest group of knee jerk reactions I've read to a pretty detailed article in a while.

What's the matter, is everyone illiterate, or is the article right and people can't comment with substance?

What, is there an obligation to respond to what amounts to a hissy fit against Republicans? To what end? I fail to see why there's any reason for it.

BucEyedPea
08-21-2009, 08:19 AM
What, is there an obligation to respond to what amounts to a hissy fit against Republicans? To what end? I fail to see why there's any reason for it.

As if he always posts with substance. He does his fair share of attacks.

mlyonsd
08-21-2009, 08:24 AM
Man, this is the laziest group of knee jerk reactions I've read to a pretty detailed article in a while.

What's the matter, is everyone illiterate, or is the article right and people can't comment with substance?

How about this:

Klein is a pussy whiner because instead of scolding the democrats for not using the power they were given in November they're crawling around looking to cover their political fat lazy stupid asses when it comes to passing health care reform. Reform they ran on but can't seem to have the nads to deliver. Reform they can pass without a single republican vote.

Klein is either stupid or an apologist, I'll let you pick.

ChiTown
08-21-2009, 08:45 AM
How about this:

Klein is a pussy whiner because instead of scolding the democrats for not using the power they were given in November they're crawling around looking to cover their political fat lazy stupid asses when it comes to passing health care reform. Reform they ran on but can't seem to have the nads to deliver. Reform they can pass without a single republican vote.

Klein is either stupid or an apologist, I'll let you pick.

:clap:

RaiderH8r
08-21-2009, 09:14 AM
So, basically, Republicans are big meanies because they won't help Obama overcome the opposition within his own party to pass legislation that the vast majority of them don't support?

Hammer. Nail. Head.

This is the bottom line, the crux, the rubber meets the road of every whining Democrat bed wetting lefty who is in the throes of complaining of Republican obstructionism. It is all smoke and mirrors bullshit. The Dems have the raw vote totals to run whatever health package they want. They just want Republicans to sign on so that when the boat runs aground they can share the blame. Christ, Obama is again raising the spectre of the "vast right wing conspiracy". Really Barry? This is your post racial post partisan politics? Jackass.

RINGLEADER
08-21-2009, 09:23 AM
Man, this is the laziest group of knee jerk reactions I've read to a pretty detailed article in a while.

What's the matter, is everyone illiterate, or is the article right and people can't comment with substance?

Totally respect his opinion but I find the Dem tendancy to blame Republicans for not supporting bills that are written by Democrats to be slightly bizarre.

patteeu
08-21-2009, 12:05 PM
I agree with this part of the OP article:

How can you maintain the illusion of journalistic impartiality ...?

I'm not going to try.

Good for Joe for admitting it's just an illusion even when he does bother to try.

Mr. Kotter
08-21-2009, 12:13 PM
I agree with this part of the OP article:



Good for Joe for admitting it's just an illusion even when he does bother to try.


I'd say Joe is also "spot on" in this from the OP too:

This year, the liberal insistence on a marginally relevant public option has been a tactical mistake that has enabled the right's "government takeover" disinformation jihad. There have been times when Democrats have run demagogic scare campaigns on issues like Social Security and Medicare. There are more than a few Democrats who believe, in practice, that government should be run for the benefit of government employees' unions. There are Democrats who are so solicitous of civil liberties that they would undermine legitimate covert intelligence collection. There are others who mistrust the use of military power under almost any circumstances.

patteeu
08-21-2009, 01:06 PM
Joe Klein is a tool. Every state that has tried some form of universal coverage has failed.

This may tell us something about the actual state of play on health care: the nutters are a tiny minority; the Republicans are curling themselves into a tight, white, extremist bubble — but there may be enough of them raising dust to render creative public policy impossible. Some righteous anger seems called for, but that's not Obama's style. He will have to come up with something, though — and he will have to do it without the tiniest scintilla of help from the Republican Party.

Those comments are right out of the Democrat playbook. Everyone that opposes this is EVIL and a RACIST.

LOL.

Folks, seriously the people that elected that goofball need to be kicked out of the USA. Guess that Jew doesn't know what country and what 'race' gave him an opportunity and gave Israel life to begin with.

Dog that bites the hand that feeds him.

Joe Klein hasn't been elected by anyone, thank goodness, and if he's a jew I don't know what that's got to do with anything.

patteeu
08-21-2009, 01:07 PM
"I don't believe that all Republicans are racists, but I'm starting to believe that all racists are Republicans." -Something I overheard the other day.

Someone ban this hate-spewing moron.

I suggest that you start eavesdropping on more intelligent people.