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orange
08-20-2009, 02:14 PM
New Poll: 77 Percent Support "Choice" Of Public Option
Sam Stein | HuffPost Reporting
First Posted: 08-20-09 02:55 PM | Updated: 08-20-09 03:56 PM

More than three out of every four Americans feel it is important to have a "choice" between a government-run health care insurance option and private coverage, according to a public opinion poll released on Thursday.

A new study by SurveyUSA (http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=5ba17aa2-f1b9-4445-a6b8-62b9d1ba8693) puts support for a public option at a robust 77 percent, one percentage point higher than where it stood in June.

But the numbers tell another story, as well.

Earlier in the week, after pollsters for NBC dropped the word "choice" from their question on a public option, they found that only 43 percent of the public were in favor of "creating a public health care plan administered by the federal government that would compete directly with private health insurance companies."

Opponents of the president's agenda jumped on the findings as evidence that backing for the public option was dropping. Proponents responded by arguing that NBC's tinkering with the language of the question (which it had also done in its July survey) had contributed to the drop in favorability for a public plan.

SurveyUSA's poll, which was commissioned by the progressive group MoveOn.org, a proponent of the public plan, gives credence to those critiques. While arguments about what type of language best describe the public option persist --"choice" is considered a trigger word that everyone naturally supports -- it seems clear that the framing of the provision goes a long way toward determining its popularity.

In asking its question SurveyUSA used the same exact words that NBC/Wall Street Journal had used when conducting its June 2009 survey. That one that found 76 percent approval for the public option: "In any health care proposal, how important do you feel it is to give people a choice of both a public plan administered by the federal government and a private plan for their health insurance--extremely important, quite important, not that important, or not at all important?"

To ensure that its respondent pool was composed of people from similar demographics and political mindsets, SurveyUSA asked respondents a question pulled directly from NBC's August survey. The results were nearly identical.

Read a description of the president's health care plan, 51 percent of Survey USA respondents said they "favored" the approach, while 43 percent opposed it. In the NBC poll, 53 percent of respondents said they favored the president's plan, 43 percent said they opposed it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/20/new-poll-77-percent-suppo_n_264375.html

jjjayb
08-20-2009, 02:24 PM
Surveyusa. Brought to you by the fine folks at Acorn!

(Not really. But the name just sounds cheesy enough to be a liberal group like move-on etc..)

Brock
08-20-2009, 02:24 PM
It's all in how you phrase the question, obviously.

jAZ
08-20-2009, 02:38 PM
It's all in how you phrase the question, obviously.

Indeed. Though dropping the word "choice" from polling and then running with the subsequent drop in support as if it was a shift in public opinion when it was really just a manipulation of the phrasing to words that made the "choice" element less obvious to the person being polled... is incredibly dishonest.

Chief Henry
08-20-2009, 02:42 PM
WHO makes the choice on WHO gets treatment and WHO doesn't ?

Whats the criteria for not allowing a person a suregery ?

orange
08-20-2009, 02:44 PM
They just duplicated the question that was asked by NBC/WSJ in June - the question that was changed for this week's NBC poll.

That latest NBC poll is very controversial right now - that's exactly why this poll was commissioned - to refute it.

headsnap
08-20-2009, 02:45 PM
New Poll: 77 Percent Support "Choice" Of Public Option


brought to you by the Department of Redundancy Department...

KC Dan
08-20-2009, 02:46 PM
They just duplicated the question that was asked by NBC/WSJ in June - the question that was changed for this week's NBC poll.

That latest NBC poll is very controversial right now - that's exactly why this poll was commissioned - to refute it.yea, i deleted my stupid posts...

Garcia Bronco
08-20-2009, 02:54 PM
Surveyusa. Brought to you by the fine folks at Acorn!

(Not really. But the name just sounds cheesy enough to be a liberal group like move-on etc..)

It's sponsered by something called moveon.org

orange
08-20-2009, 03:03 PM
It's sponsered by something called moveon.org

So what? The poll is the poll. Who sponsored it is meaningless.

Click the link and see the actual questions, methodology etc. if you think there's shenanigans.

dirk digler
08-20-2009, 03:10 PM
It's sponsered by something called moveon.org

BS. SurveyUSA is one of the reputable pollsters out there. They don't skew their polls like Rasmussen

Mojo Jojo
08-20-2009, 03:29 PM
BS. SurveyUSA is one of the reputable pollsters out there. They don't skew their polls like Rasmussen

Forgive me if you are being sarcastic, but this pull was paid for by moveon.org. Check out kos and all. moveon.org is proud to have paid for these findings and they are making it known.

Mojo Jojo
08-20-2009, 03:31 PM
So what? The poll is the poll. Who sponsored it is meaningless.

Click the link and see the actual questions, methodology etc. if you think there's shenanigans.

So you believe all the Rasmussen Polls and will stand behind the results?

dirk digler
08-20-2009, 03:33 PM
Forgive me if you are being sarcastic, but this pull was paid for by moveon.org. Check out kos and all. moveon.org is proud to have paid for these findings and they are making it known.

That is how polling organizations make money is it not? Why would SurveyUSA ruin their reputation by manipulating a poll?

petegz28
08-20-2009, 03:35 PM
BS. SurveyUSA is one of the reputable pollsters out there. They don't skew their polls like Rasmussen

WTF? Rass was the most accurtate pollster in the last election. Nice try

dirk digler
08-20-2009, 03:37 PM
WTF? Rass was the most accurtate pollster in the last election. Nice try

A squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile. BTW during the primaries he was one of the worst

Garcia Bronco
08-20-2009, 03:38 PM
I don't even see in the results where it says 77 percent support this plan or a public option. They alos detail out the plan for Obamacare in their sampling whihc can be bias.

Oh wait...I see it now. They are adding two sections together to say 77 percent support a CHOICE of a public option. Nor do they detail out the exact demograpics they targeted.

Mojo Jojo
08-20-2009, 03:40 PM
That is how polling organizations make money is it not? Why would SurveyUSA ruin their reputation by manipulating a poll?

So you agree that Rasmussen has no reason to lie or skew results. Because as you just said...That is how polling organizations make money is it not?

Pick a horse and ride, but don't flip-flop.

Mojo Jojo
08-20-2009, 03:42 PM
I don't even see in the results where it says 77 percent support this plan or a public option. They alos detail out the plan for Obamacare in their sampling whihc can be bias.

Oh wait...I see it now. They are adding two sections together to say 77 percent support a CHOICE of a public option. Nor do they detail out the exact demograpics they targeted.

Yes, they added two numbers together and the key is a public option. Funny that the question is not about the current proposed public option.

dirk digler
08-20-2009, 03:45 PM
So you agree that Rasmussen has no reason to lie or skew results. Because as you just said...That is how polling organizations make money is it not?

Pick a horse and ride, but don't flip-flop.

Actually you a wrong.

SurveyUSA does contract work with groups to do polls.

Rasmussen doesn't.


http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/about_us

Rasmussen Reports cannot be hired to conduct a poll for anyone.

Hydrae
08-20-2009, 03:45 PM
I also support a choice. If the alternative is to have such a program shoved down my throat. I do not support a governmental option in the first place but if it has to exist I want a choice in the whether I participate.

Mojo Jojo
08-20-2009, 03:49 PM
Actually you a wrong.

SurveyUSA does contract work with groups to do polls.

Rasmussen doesn't.

So polls and polling companies are for sale. I'm sure who writes the check has never been involved in the information that is released. Just keep digging your hole.

dirk digler
08-20-2009, 03:54 PM
So polls and polling companies are for sale. I'm sure who writes the check has never been involved in the information that is released. Just keep digging your hole.

If you believe in the free market what SurveyUSA is doing is the right way. If they were inaccurate or not trust worthy then people wouldn't use them. Of course I can understand the flip side that people can use the argument that they can be bought as well.

BucEyedPea
08-20-2009, 03:54 PM
So what? The poll is the poll. Who sponsored it is meaningless.

Click the link and see the actual questions, methodology etc. if you think there's shenanigans.

Not in my book. That's their demographic they polled. And if I don't want the public option how is that a choice for me?

Garcia Bronco
08-20-2009, 04:03 PM
Yes, they added two numbers together and the key is a public option. Funny that the question is not about the current proposed public option.

That's in there as well. And 86 percent strongly disapprove of the current plan on the table. My statistics teacher said 15 years ago and it's true today. There are only 2 types of people that use statistics: Liars and Damn Liars.

So what old adrianna huff-notfromthiscourty-ton should have posted was that 77 percent in the poll support a public option and even more 99 percent (86% strongly, 13% somewhat) oppose the plan on the table.


/end of thread

Mojo Jojo
08-20-2009, 04:11 PM
That's in there as well. And 86 percent strongly disapprove of the current plan on the table. My statistics teacher said 15 years ago and it's true today. There are only 2 types of people that use statistics: Liars and Damn Liars

I think my stats teacher said several years ago (more than 15 :D).
Liars use stats. That is why there is a lot of money in doing stats.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

orange
08-20-2009, 04:20 PM
That's in there as well. And 86 percent strongly disapprove of the current plan on the table. My statistics teacher said 15 years ago and it's true today. There are only 2 types of people that use statistics: Liars and Damn Liars.


I suggest you read that again.

Question #6 asks if people support or oppose Obama's plan. Most support it (51% vs. 43%).

Questions #7 and #8 measure the DEGREE of support or opposition. Note that #8 was only asked of the 511 Who Oppose Plan in #6.

KC Dan
08-20-2009, 04:30 PM
I think my stats teacher said several years ago (more than 15 :D).
Liars use stats. That is why there is a lot of money in doing stats.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:My stats teacher said "What do you want it to say?"

jAZ
08-20-2009, 04:46 PM
WTF? Rass was the most accurtate pollster in the last election. Nice try

I've talked about this repeatedly. Rasmussen is and was great on election polling. Likely will be going forward. But he generates mid-election business as a Republican pollster. What that means is rather than polling on "who are you voting for (pick one)", he polls on GOP crafted questions that are designed to elicit particular biased answers than can then be selectively released once the results support the desired agenda of the GOP.

So election polling and issue polling are totally different animals.

And the same can and is certainly done with Dems.

But don't confuse Rass's election polling success with a "unbiased" presumption on his other polling.

jAZ
08-20-2009, 05:04 PM
I've talked about this repeatedly. Rasmussen is and was great on election polling. Likely will be going forward. But he generates mid-election business as a Republican pollster. What that means is rather than polling on "who are you voting for (pick one)", he polls on GOP crafted questions that are designed to elicit particular biased answers than can then be selectively released once the results support the desired agenda of the GOP.

So election polling and issue polling are totally different animals.

And the same can and is certainly done with Dems.

But don't confuse Rass's election polling success with a "unbiased" presumption on his other polling.

I stand by my distiction between election polling and issue polling, but I might walk back my comments about Rasmussen's motives.

In the mean time, I thought this article would help people a bit.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/03/pollster-ratings-updated.html

3.12.2008
Pollster Ratings v2.0
by Nate Silver @ 12:47 AM

I recently subscribed to PollingReport.com, and had some time today to backfit a whole bunch of polling data from previous election cycles into my pollster report card. I now have a database of over 150 competitive contests since 2000. This includes essentially every competitive presidential race, and most competitive primary races, Senate races, and Governor races. I also expanded the playing field literally to include a number of new pollsters, including both some national pollsters and some regional ones, up to a total of 32 pollsters in all. A pollster was included if it had at least 5 surveys in my database.

My methodology remains essentially the same as in this Daily Kos diary. My process is to look at the average miss for each pollster across each contest they polled, and compare it to the average miss of other pollsters in those same contest, after going through a more-complicated-than-it-needs-to-be iterative process.

The results are below, split into groups for 'regional' and 'national' pollsters. (This distinction is arbitrary -- some pollsters like Insider Advantage and Quinnipiac straddle the line between being regional and national -- but helpful for presentation). 'Error' represents the average error for the particular pollster, as compared to the 'IAE', which is the iterated average error for other pollsters in those same contests.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2015/2327750973_bd7f1012b1_o.png

The way to read these numbers is that Survey USA, for example, has been an average of 1.34 more accurate than an average pollster; this is an outstanding number, and remains something of an outlier. We've also included a couple of new major media pollsters: ABC/Washington Post, which is fairly decent, and CBS/NYT, which is pretty awful. Oh, and the Zogby Interactive polls, which are off-the-charts bad -- considerably worse than Zogby's telephone polls, which are themselves quite poor. Insider Advantage has moved up a little bit; I don't like certain elements of their methodology, but their results have been fairly decent, and they're smart enough to stick to polling in the South, which is a region that they know well. Gallup continues to subsist on name recognition only. Their national polls may be fine, but they aren't doing anyone any favors when they deign to poll state-by-state matchups.

[...]

Survey USA rates way ahead here, because it has not only gotten good results, but done so over a large number of contests. A Survey USA poll will be weighted around 3x as much as a Zogby or an ARG poll in our weighted polling averages.

NOTE: The recalibrated pollster ratings are not yet incorporated in our simulations and weighted averages, but they will be once we get a couple of new polls in and do a fresh run of the data.

dirk digler
08-20-2009, 05:23 PM
So I was right....again. :D

The thing about Rasmussen is since he is a registered Republican he trends his polls to the right more often than not.

2bikemike
08-20-2009, 05:43 PM
I put zero stock in polling numbers. Hell if you walked downtown anywhere USA and asked 77% of the people wouldn't have a freaking clue about said issue.

Polls are easily manipulated to try and justify a means.

jAZ
08-20-2009, 06:42 PM
I put zero stock in polling numbers. Hell if you walked downtown anywhere USA and asked 77% of the people wouldn't have a freaking clue about said issue.

Polls are easily manipulated to try and justify a means.

That's wrong too. You can learn how to read them fairly easily. Two keys...

1) Look at the wording of the questions to see if they are loaded for one outcome or another.
2) Understand that any poll that is not regularly recurring (ie, issue polling) can be biased either by changes in wording (see this thread) or selectively released (ie, take 10 polls over a perior, 3 are favorable, 7 are unfavorable, only release the 3 to prove a non-existant trend).

RNR
08-20-2009, 06:42 PM
I put zero stock in polling numbers. Hell if you walked downtown anywhere USA and asked 77% of the people wouldn't have a freaking clue about said issue.

Polls are easily manipulated to try and justify a means.

Agreed most only take stock in the polls that favor whatever side they are on

jAZ
08-20-2009, 06:52 PM
So I was right....again. :D

The thing about Rasmussen is since he is a registered Republican he trends his polls to the right more often than not.

I'm not walking back my position on Rasmussen entirely. I could be completely wrong. But if you go look at his issue polling questions, they are almost always operating from the position that this or that GOP talking point is a given, and the poll is asking what people feel about it.

If you look back at two trends you'll see a pattern.

1) Most of the polls posted around here lately by the GOPosters here are various Rasmussen polls.
2) Most all of the storylines around Rasmussen's polls are favorable to the Republicans.

If his motive isn't to generate business directly from GOP polls (I assume that's true), I'm curious what his motive is.

Polling is expensive. There's no way he can make a living off of polling geeks subscribing to his internals. He's not doing this stuff for free.

Two thing I saw on this thread that left an opening was this:

1) "... selling ... title sponsorships, subscriptions, and content"

...combined with this...

2) "...we’re very proud of during the political season is our bi-partisan audience..."

#2 I think relates to my *between elections* and *look carefully at the words* points.

He might have a bipartisan audience during election season, but Republicans are carrying him financailly between elections through paying him in all sorts of indirect ways (title sponsorships, subscriptions, etc).

jAZ
08-20-2009, 06:53 PM
Agreed most only take stock in the polls that favor whatever side they are on

That's true and unfortunate.

dirk digler
08-20-2009, 07:06 PM
I'm not walking back my position on Rasmussen entirely. I could be completely wrong. But if you go look at his issue polling questions, they are almost always operating from the position that this or that GOP talking point is a given, and the poll is asking what people feel about it.

If you look back at two trends you'll see a pattern.

1) Most of the polls posted around here lately by the GOPosters here are various Rasmussen polls.
2) Most all of the storylines around Rasmussen's polls are favorable to the Republicans.

If his motive isn't to generate business directly from GOP polls (I assume that's true), I'm curious what his motive is.

Polling is expensive. There's no way he can make a living off of polling geeks subscribing to his internals. He's not doing this stuff for free.

Two thing I saw on this thread that left an opening was this:

1) "... selling ... title sponsorships, subscriptions, and content"

...combined with this...

2) "...we’re very proud of during the political season is our bi-partisan audience..."

#2 I think relates to my *between elections* and *look carefully at the words* points.

He might have a bipartisan audience during election season, but Republicans are carrying him financailly between elections through paying him in all sorts of indirect ways (title sponsorships, subscriptions, etc).

Yep plus add to the fact he only appears on Fox News which should tell you something. I look at Rasmussen in the same light as Frank Luntz.

Donger
08-21-2009, 07:48 AM
So, 77% don't support Obama and the Democrats' plan? It isn't a choice if it's the only "option" available to you and you are required by law to "choose" it.

orange
08-21-2009, 08:20 AM
No, you're wrong.

RINGLEADER
08-21-2009, 08:28 AM
Indeed. Though dropping the word "choice" from polling and then running with the subsequent drop in support as if it was a shift in public opinion when it was really just a manipulation of the phrasing to words that made the "choice" element less obvious to the person being polled... is incredibly dishonest.

Anyone who thinks the polling on this issue is skewed need only look at Obama's approval ratings for additional clarification. Adding the word choice is interesting since removing it is the goal of Obamacare.....

blaise
08-21-2009, 08:37 AM
And with that the debate over health care is over.

Just like that.

Poltically at least.

donkhater
08-21-2009, 03:32 PM
That settles it. More than 3 out of every 4 Americans are as dumb as a bag of hammers.

HonestChieffan
08-21-2009, 04:27 PM
That is how polling organizations make money is it not? Why would SurveyUSA ruin their reputation by manipulating a poll?

SurveyUSA is the polling arm of the moonbat left so noone really takes anything they do as legit.

orange
08-21-2009, 05:47 PM
SurveyUSA is the polling arm of the moonbat left so noone really takes anything they do as legit.


SurveyUSA polls for the largest media companies in the United States, including at different times contracts with all of the following local TV news organizations:
http://www.surveyusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/map-of-all-clients-101707.jpg

SurveyUSA also conducts research for state and local governments, government agencies, major universities and other academic institutions, non-profit organizations, and private industry. Among our market research clients:

AAA
AARP
Abbott Laboratories, Inc.
ABC, Inc.
Advanced Analytics
AG Greeting Cards
Alcon Laboratories, Inc.
Allbritton Communications Company
American Cancer Society, Inc.
AOL Time Warner
AR&D
AstraZeneca Pharmaceuticals LP
AT&T
Bayer Corporation
Beiersdorf AG / Nivea
Belo
Bob Evens Farms, Inc.
Bonneville International Corporation
Capitol Broadcasting Company, Inc.
CBS, Inc.
Chase Manhattan Bank
Chris-Craft Industries, Inc.
Citigroup, Inc.
Clorox Company
CNN Audience Research
Colgate-Palmolive Company
Conde Nast Publications, Inc.
Costco Wholesale Corporation
Cowles Publishing Company
Cox Enterprises, Inc.
Darden Restaurants, Inc.
Delta Carbona
Dial Corporation
Dispatch Printing Company
Dow Jones & Company, Inc. / Wall Street Journal
E.W. Scripps Company / Scripps Howard
Eastman Kodak Company
Emmis Communications
Enterprise Rent-A-Car Company
Ericsson Cellular
Evening Post Publishing Company
Eveready Battery Company, Inc.
Fisher Broadcasting Company
Fox Entertainment Group, Inc.
Freedom Communications, Inc.
Gannett Co., Inc.
General Electric Company
General Foods / International Coffees
GlaxoSmithKline
Granite Broadcasting Corporation
Gray Communication Systems, Inc.
Griffin Television, LLC
Guideline Research Corporation
Hasbro, Inc.
Hearst-Argyle Television, Inc.
Hicks, Muse, Tate & Furst, Inc.
Hubbard Broadcasting, Inc.
Interpublic Group of Companies, Inc.
Ipsos-NPD
J.P. Morgan & Company
Jefferson-Pilot Communications, Inc.
Kal-Kan Foods, Inc.
Kmart Corp.
Kraft Foods, Inc.
Lee Enterprises, Inc.
Limited, Inc. / Intimate Brands, Inc.
LIMRA International
LIN Television Corporation
Maker’s Mark Distillery
Market Facts / Aegis Group
Marketing Corporation of America
Mars, Inc.
McCormick & Company Inc.
McGraw-Hill Companies
Media General, Inc.
Merck Laboratories
Meredith Corporation
Merisant
Michelin
Microsoft Corporation
Monroe Mendelsohn Research, Inc.
Monsanto Company, Inc.
NBC, Inc.
New York Times Company
News Corporation Ltd.
Nexium
Nexstar Broadcasting Group, Inc.
NFO Worldwide
PepsiCo, Inc. / Frito-Lay
Pfizer, Inc.
Philip Morris Companies, Inc.
Procter & Gamble
Raycom Media, Inc.
RJR Nabisco Inc.
Sara Lee Corporation
Sears, Roebuck & Company
Sentinel
Schering-Plough Corporation
Sinclair Broadcasting Group, Inc.
Spartan Communications
St. James
Sunbeam Television Corporation
Sunbelt Communications Company
Telefonaktiebolaget LM Ericsson
The Harrison Group
Tribune Company
Unilever Bestfoods
VF Corporation
Viacom, Inc. / Paramount Television
Victoria’s Secret
Walt Disney Company
Washington Post Company /Post Newsweek Stations Inc.
Weather Channel Enterprises, Inc.
Weatherproof Garment Company
Yahoo! Inc.
Young Broadcasting, Inc.
Yuban Coffee Company
Zale Corporation / Zales Jewelers

BucEyedPea
08-21-2009, 06:04 PM
TV News Oraganization= leftwing and in Obama's pocket

Next...

***SPRAYER
08-21-2009, 06:23 PM
Surveyusa. Brought to you by the fine folks at Acorn!

(Not really. But the name just sounds cheesy enough to be a liberal group like move-on etc..)

No way, gitout. Really? I would never, EVER, think Orange would be so dishonest.

:rolleyes: