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memyselfI
08-20-2009, 02:31 PM
Per MSNBC.

Let the speculation begin!!!

ChiTown
08-20-2009, 02:34 PM
Wha?!?!?!?

ROFL

orange
08-20-2009, 02:36 PM
They ran out of money.

It was THAT popular.

KC Dan
08-20-2009, 02:37 PM
They ran out of money.

It was THAT popular.If they haven't paid out anything, how - praytell could they have run out of money? :D

orange
08-20-2009, 02:39 PM
Cash For Clunkers Ending

It was no surprise to see the Dow Jones Newswire report that NHTSA Secretary Raymond LaHood will be announcing by the end of this week how the Cash for Clunkers program will wind down.

Last night we posted an article calling for the NHTSA to announce a firm end date; we didn’t realize how many NHTSA employees must read our blog. http://www.cashforclunkersfacts.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

Consumers Have Days To Shop

We expect that the announcement from Secretary LaHood will give shoppers a few weeks to get out and buy a car, even if all the funds are gone.

We would not expect the program to last past the Labor Day sales weekend.

Consumers are advised to read three articles before they go shopping. Consumers should call ahead to local dealers to make sure that they can get the car you want before the program expires.

The car does not have to be in their current stock but they do have to get a VIN# to enter in the sale to the NHTSA system.


http://www.cashforclunkersfacts.com/wp-content/uploads/hourglass-green-time-out-200px.jpg

http://www.cashforclunkersfacts.com/20090819-cash-for-clunkers-ends/

mlyonsd
08-20-2009, 02:41 PM
They ran out of money.

It was THAT popular.

ROFL Handing out $4500 checks is popular. Go figure.

F'ing brilliant. We should start handing out $1 million dollar checks.

KC Dan
08-20-2009, 02:46 PM
ROFL Handing out $4500 checks is popular. Go figure.

F'ing brilliant. We should start handing out $1 million dollar checks.
Ooh! Ooh! Ooh!

orange
08-20-2009, 02:46 PM
ROFL Handing out $4500 checks is popular. Go figure.

F'ing brilliant. We should start handing out $1 million dollar checks.

Have car companies ever offered cash incentives to buyers before?

I seem to remember a word, "revat," or "prebate," or something like that.

Of course, this isn't an actual cash incentive - not to the buyers, anyway. But it sure seemed to do its job.

KC Dan
08-20-2009, 02:48 PM
Have governments ever offered cash incentives to buyers before?fyp

orange
08-20-2009, 02:51 PM
fyp

We're part owners of the car companies now, aren't we?

ClevelandBronco
08-20-2009, 02:51 PM
Have car companies ever offered cash incentives to buyers before?

I seem to remember a word, "revat," or "prebate," or something like that.

Of course, this isn't an actual cash incentive - not to the buyers, anyway. But it sure seemed to do its job.

There are dealers who are still owed tens of thousands (and in some cases hundreds of thousands of dollars.) The tab for the money that the government hasn't paid the dealers is still on the credit of the buyers.

Dealers were dropping out left and right..

The program was a disaster.

orange
08-20-2009, 02:53 PM
The program was a disaster.

The CAR RETAIL industry sites I've looked at tell a different story.

Here's one:
Cash for clunkers offers stimulus program that works
Program has proven its value
By Tim Jackson, president of the Colorado Automobile Dealers Association.
http://www.cobizmag.com/articles/cash-for-clunkers-offers-stimulus-program-that-works

ClevelandBronco
08-20-2009, 02:54 PM
We're part owners of the car companies now, aren't we?

Can you guess how many dealerships we "own?" The automobile manufacturers weren't getting this money.

And, as it turned out, neither did the dealerships in many cases.

ClevelandBronco
08-20-2009, 02:55 PM
The CAR RETAIL industry sites I've looked at tell a different story.

Here's one:
Cash for clunkers offers stimulus program that works
Program has proven its value
By Tim Jackson
http://www.cobizmag.com/articles/cash-for-clunkers-offers-stimulus-program-that-works

Plenty of sales. No question.

The government just dropped the ball following through with their ill-conceived program.

orange
08-20-2009, 02:57 PM
The program started July 24. Less than 30 days ago. It generated over 435,000 sales. The claims haven't all been processed yet; as I said somewhere else, "knock me over with a feather."

As for "manufacturers weren't getting any of the money," I beg to differ:

GM To Reinstate About 1,350 Workers Due To "Clunkers," Increased Demand
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=5987699#post5987699


Call it "trickle up economics."

ClevelandBronco
08-20-2009, 03:03 PM
The program starte July 24. Less than 30 days ago. It generated over 435,000 sales. The claims haven't all been processed yet; as I said somewhere else, "knock me over with a feather."

The dealerships can wait until the government is damned good and ready to pay them. The consumers can pay full price until the dealerships are finally paid by the government.

Hell of a plan.

BTW: The IRS has owed me money since April 15. I still don't have it. I'm guessing they can just use it more effectively than I can for now.

ClevelandBronco
08-20-2009, 03:04 PM
The program starte July 24. Less than 30 days ago. It generated over 435,000 sales. The claims haven't all been processed yet; as I said somewhere else, "knock me over with a feather."

As for "manufacturers weren't getting any of the money," I beg to differ:

GM To Reinstate About 1,350 Workers Due To "Clunkers," Increased Demand
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=5987699#post5987699


Call it "trickle up economics."

Again, you're mistaking the impact on manufacturers and the impact on dealerships.

memyselfI
08-20-2009, 03:22 PM
How long until we start hearing about defaults on the loans for these cars because people bought more car than they could afford due to the CFC program?

Are we going to bail them out with grants or loans so they can keep their cars?

BigRedChief
08-20-2009, 03:29 PM
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b60/timmyab1/IBTL.jpg

jjjayb
08-20-2009, 03:42 PM
There are dealers who are still owed tens of thousands (and in some cases hundreds of thousands of dollars.) The tab for the money that the government hasn't paid the dealers is still on the credit of the buyers.

Dealers were dropping out left and right..

The program was a disaster.

We're close to half a million.

jjjayb
08-20-2009, 03:51 PM
The CAR RETAIL industry sites I've looked at tell a different story.

Here's one:
Cash for clunkers offers stimulus program that works
Program has proven its value
By Tim Jackson, president of the Colorado Automobile Dealers Association.
http://www.cobizmag.com/articles/cash-for-clunkers-offers-stimulus-program-that-works

Many dealers have stopped doing cash for clunkers deals.

In an Automotive News survey of nearly 800 dealers,

■97% of dealers who responded, say the government is not reimbursing fast enough
■13% of dealers have dropped out the program because the government is not reimbursing fast enough
■87% percent of dealers are concerned the money will be exhausted
■3% of CARS program deals have been reimbursed
■66% of dealers have not received one payment from the government
■25% of dealers are experiencing severe cash flow problems that require short-term loans to alleviate
■11% of submitted applications have been approved (though dealers still are waiting for the money)
■16% of submitted applications have been rejected
■55% of dealers are not confident they will get reimbursed for every deal
■40% do not want the program to continue, even if changes are made to the CARS program

Mojo Jojo
08-20-2009, 03:55 PM
Many dealers have stopped doing cash for clunkers deals.

In an Automotive News survey of nearly 800 dealers,

■97% of dealers who responded, say the government is not reimbursing fast enough
■13% of dealers have dropped out the program because the government is not reimbursing fast enough
■87% percent of dealers are concerned the money will be exhausted
■3% of CARS program deals have been reimbursed
■66% of dealers have not received one payment from the government
■25% of dealers are experiencing severe cash flow problems that require short-term loans to alleviate
■11% of submitted applications have been approved (though dealers still are waiting for the money)
■16% of submitted applications have been rejected
■55% of dealers are not confident they will get reimbursed for every deal
■40% do not want the program to continue, even if changes are made to the CARS program

Beautiful...this is the same government that thinks it will be able to run health care. They can't even budget for 45 days let a lone a lifetime.

orange
08-20-2009, 04:00 PM
Cash for Clunkers success limited by program flaws
By STEPHEN MANNING (AP) – 1 hour ago

WASHINGTON — It's revived business at car dealerships, taken gas-guzzlers off the road and given a badly needed boost to struggling auto factories. By many measures, the government's Cash for Clunkers program has been a success.

Yet as it winds down, there is another lasting image: the hasty planning and troubled execution that nearly derailed the program early on and, lately, has led some frustrated dealers to drop out amid long waits for the government money.

The responsibility for the $3 billion stimulus program's flaws is widely spread.

_ Congress — relying on auto industry forecasts that the program wouldn't have a major effect on moribund sales — deeply underestimated how many people would be lured to dealerships by rebates of up to $4,500. Initially, lawmakers committed just $1 billion, an amount that was burned through in just a few weeks.

_ Transportation Department officials, presented with just 30 days to get the program up and running, didn't set aside enough staff or resources and were overwhelmed by the heavy response from consumers. Systems set up to handle and reimburse dealer claims were swamped.

_ Government rules to prevent fraud created paperwork requirements that many dealers didn't fully understand.

_ Hungry for sales, dealers made Cash for Clunkers deals weeks in advance even though they were advised against it. This created a big backlog the moment the program officially began. And many are still filing bad paperwork that is holding up their claims, despite repeated government attempts to clear up the confusion.

Dealers are thrilled with the revived sales, but say the lesson learned is clear — more time and planning was needed to make Cash for Clunkers a true success.

"I love the sales, but the bureaucratic end of it is very problematic, very frustrating and very unnerving," said Scott Addison, an executive with the suburban Washington-based Fitzgerald Auto Mall dealership chain.

Cash for Clunkers will end Monday evening, the Transportation Department said Thursday, saying dealers must have all their claims filed by then in order to be repaid.

President Barack Obama declared the program a success Thursday, and government officials stress that dealers who get their claims in will be repaid.

Approved in June, the program seemed straightforward. Dealers would offer rebates to customers seeking to trade in older vehicles for new, more fuel efficient car and trucks. The dealers would front the money and then be reimbursed by the government.

It has been a huge hit with car buyers. About 450,000 new vehicles have been sold so far under the program, worth nearly $2 billion. That is far more than original expectations of analysts, who believed that Cash for Clunkers would provide only a small bump in sales.

Automakers are scrambling to fill depleted inventories of the Fords, Toyotas and Chevrolets that are the most popular sellers. General Motors has added shifts at some plants to handle the extra demand.

But Cash for Clunkers, has also been a bureaucratic headache.

Congress only set aside about a month for the program to get up and running and picked the National Highway Transpiration Safety Administration, which specializes in road safety and vehicle recalls, to run it. The agency, known as NHTSA, had never run a program like this before. It devoted 30 employees and 200 contractors to handle the program — and they were swamped almost from the moment dealers' applications began rolling in.

"We were not anticipating the number of transactions would be anywhere near what it is at this point," said Daniel Smith, the NHTSA associate administrator overseeing the program in a recent information session with dealers.

The agency has tried to fix problems as they arise. It has tripled the staff working on the program to 1,100, beefed up the computer system and eased some rules that dealers found especially time consuming. Dealers say the agency has been responsive to problems.

Part of the reason for the backlog in paperwork is that dealers ignored government warnings and started cutting Cash for Clunkers deals weeks before the program officially began. There were thousands of sales waiting to be processed when the program began July 27.

Moreover, many shoppers were buying vehicles that were much more fuel efficient than their trade-ins making them eligible for the higher $4,500 credit. That meant the original $1 billion couldn't go as far.

The government's computer system was also overwhelmed. Some dealers brought staff in after midnight to try to scan and send documents, only to have the online system crash. Transportation officials eventually improved the computer system to smooth the claims process.

But many of the problems lie with the dealers. For example, many cash for clunkers deals weren't approved because dealers didn't write "Junk Automobile, Cars.gov" in black magic marker on the title of the older cars that buyers were trading in.

Government officials say the tough rules are needed to prevent fraud.

"Part of the problem is...some of the information was not provided to us. The application or the form that needed to be filled out by the car dealer was inadequate and we had to send it back to them. That caused a great deal of delays," said Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood.

Regardless, dealers often have to wait up to 10 days just to find out that a claim has been rejected, meaning they have to start over. And just 167,000 of the 458,000 applications had been reviewed as of Thursday, creating a huge backlog.

The government had estimated each dealer would make only about 12 sales under the program. But a NADA survey showed that dealers were making about 14 sales each, with some making more than 100. The survey, sent to lawmakers and the White House late on July 30, showed that the program was running out of cash fast.

In Washington, that news created broad confusion, prompting Congress to add another $2 billion. But problems persisted, as dealers reported they were fronting rebates worth millions of dollars without getting repaid. That created a cash crunch for many.

LaHood said this week that all dealers will be repaid, and companies like GM are stepping in to help dealers with cash flow. But some in states like New York are starting to pull out of Cash for Clunkers, saying they can't afford the long waits.

"The program is choking on its own success," said Connecticut Attorney General Richard Blumenthal, who sent a letter Thursday to LaHood asking it to reform Cash for Clunkers. "It expanded exponentially without sufficient basic preparation."
Associated Press Writer Ken Thomas in Washington contributed to this report.

Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

http://www.onenewsnow.com/AP/Search/Business/Default.aspx?id=652238

orange
08-20-2009, 04:01 PM
Beautiful...this is the same government that thinks it will be able to run health care. They can't even budget for 45 days let a lone a lifetime.

Yes, because everything in life MUST work perfectly in its first 30 days or it can never, ever be fixed.

memyselfI
08-20-2009, 04:05 PM
Cash for Clunkers success limited by program flaws
By STEPHEN MANNING (AP) – 1 hour ago

http://www.onenewsnow.com/AP/Search/Business/Default.aspx?id=652238

But, but, but you claimed earlier it was a resounding a success. Now it was limited due to flaws? Well whose program was it and who would be responsible for those flaws?

So when do the post CFC layoffs begin? Summer is usually the boon months for buying cars to begin with. Are we now going to believe that the industry will sustain it's slight uptick during the fall and winter months with back to school costs, construction lay offs, and the holidays coming up????

BucEyedPea
08-20-2009, 04:07 PM
Yes, because everything in life MUST work perfectly in its first 30 days or it can never, ever be fixed.

The only way to fix problems created by govt is to remove the govt from those areas. Using more govt won't fix it in 30 or 730 days, peaches.

orange
08-20-2009, 04:07 PM
GM to reimburse dealers until Cash for Clunkers rebates arriveby John Neff on Aug 20th 2009 at 10:29AM

If there's one thing that General Motors knows right now, it's that Cash for Clunkers is good for business. The automaker announced earlier this week that it was adding shifts at several assembly plants to increase production of popular vehicles in response to the program's success. So it would be a bad thing if, as the National Automobile Dealers Association has requested, the government suspended the program until it could sort out how many vehicles have been sold, how many rebates are owed dealers and, most importantly, how much of the government's $3 billion in funding is left.

But we've got trouble brewing thanks to the government's inability to process reimbursement requests from dealers fast enough. The backlog of requests continues to grow, and no one knows where in the pile the funding will run out. So, some dealers are voluntarily pulling out of the program now before they get stuck paying for rebates that won't be reimbursed.

This is the last thing GM wants its dealers to do, so it's stepping up to bridge the gap between the time a dealer submits a request for reimbursement and the government gets around to paying it. GM will begin providing cash advances equal to the amount of C4C rebates ($3,500-$4,500 per vehicle) to its dealers for every vehicle already sold under the program and any new transactions going forward. According to GM, that should give each dealer enough liquidity to keep operating while waiting for the government to cut a check.

Of course, since GM accepted billions of dollars in federal loans to avoid bankruptcy and then, after entering Chapter 11 bankruptcy anyway, emerged as partly owned by the U.S. government, the money's really all coming from the place. It just seems that GM has a better accounting department than the U.S. Treasury.

[Source: General Motors | Photo by Ethan Miller/Getty]

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/08/20/gm-to-reimburse-dealers-until-cash-for-clunkers-rebates-arrive/

orange
08-20-2009, 04:09 PM
But, but, but you claimed earlier it was a resounding a success.

If there's one thing that General Motors knows right now, it's that Cash for Clunkers is good for business.

Ask GM, not me.

KC Dan
08-20-2009, 04:11 PM
GM to reimburse dealers until Cash for Clunkers rebates arriveby John Neff on Aug 20th 2009 at 10:29AM
Strange to see that GM will reimburse dealers for the gov't but are not the gov't, GM (Government Motors)?

This couldn't be more F'ed up!

orange
08-20-2009, 04:12 PM
A play opens in a theater with 1500 seats. All 1500 tickets are sold within an hour. Another thousand people are turned away.

Was the play a success or failure?

KC Dan
08-20-2009, 04:13 PM
A play opens in a theater with 1500 seats. All 1500 tickets are sold within an hour. Another thousand people are turned away.

Was the play a success or failure?Who paid for the seats?

orange
08-20-2009, 04:14 PM
Strange to see that GM will reimburse dealers for the gov't but are not the gov't, GM (Government Motors)?

The writer addressed that in his last paragraph. He sounds like me above - but he's not me, I promise.

memyselfI
08-20-2009, 04:14 PM
A play opens in a theater with 1500 seats. All 1500 tickets are sold within an hour. Another thousand people are turned away.

Was the play a success or failure?

Depends. did the producers of the play have to PAY for the audience to show up in the first place? What kind of provisions were made to ensure maximum success vs. doing just enough to call it a success?

Mojo Jojo
08-20-2009, 04:14 PM
Yes, because everything in life MUST work perfectly in its first 30 days or it can never, ever be fixed.

Never said it couldn't be fixed. I find it funny that the biggest success so far has self admitted program flaws. So, let's just force through something else. Thank you for proving yourself wrong.

orange
08-20-2009, 04:15 PM
Who paid for the seats?

You're getting too complicated. I'm not ready to process that question. ;)

memyselfI
08-20-2009, 04:15 PM
Strange to see that GM will reimburse dealers for the gov't but are not the gov't, GM (Government Motors)?

This couldn't be more F'ed up!

It's a different BRANCH of government, silly. Try to keep up. :doh!:

2bikemike
08-20-2009, 06:01 PM
My whole problem with cash for clunker was simply how can we afford to give away another 3 billion dollars. It freaking rediculous that we keep giving money away.

petegz28
08-20-2009, 08:34 PM
Now the question is, will Obama pay up on the monies owed to dealers? Or does he welch?

KILLER_CLOWN
08-20-2009, 09:01 PM
Now the question is, will Obama pay up on the monies owed to dealers? Or does he welch?

Nah he'll just tell them to shut up or be assimilated.

headsnap
08-20-2009, 09:03 PM
It's a different BRANCH of government, silly. Try to keep up. :doh!:

Executive, Legislative, Judicial and Automotive...

KILLER_CLOWN
08-20-2009, 09:04 PM
Executive, Legislative, Judicial and Automotive...

You left out energy(or lack thereof soon) and death care.

jAZ
08-20-2009, 10:39 PM
They are going to reach the $3B limit by Monday. What's the issue with that?

alanm
08-20-2009, 11:44 PM
We're part owners of the car companies now, aren't we?Where's my dividend check?

mikey23545
08-21-2009, 05:55 AM
A play opens in a theater with 1500 seats. All 1500 tickets are sold within an hour. Another thousand people are turned away.

Was the play a success or failure?

A play opens in a theater with 1500 seats. The government pisses away money by paying $4500 to 1500 people to sit in the seats. Another 1000 people wanted in on the loot but were turned away.

Was the play a success or failure?

Dumbass.

Mojo Jojo
08-21-2009, 08:11 AM
Just saw an interview with A dealer...
Dealer has sold 1231 cars...
Paidout $5.5 Million in cash for clunkers rebates....
Government has paid for 8 cars.

Washington working at it's best.

Once again...these are the same people who think they will be able to run health care for over 300 million people.

ChiTown
08-21-2009, 08:13 AM
Just saw an interview with A dealer...
Dealer has sold 1231 cars...
Paidout $5.5 Million in cash for clunkers rebates....
Government has paid for 8 cars.

Washington working at it's best.

Once again...these are the same people who think they will be able to run health care for over 300 million people.

But the Theatre was sold out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROFL

Donger
08-21-2009, 08:16 AM
They are going to reach the $3B limit by Monday. What's the issue with that?

$11 trillion in debt. That's what.

Inspector
08-21-2009, 08:30 AM
This cash for clunkers deal will create many, many permanent jobs in auto manufacturing, right?

I mean, they're not going to lay off any of those recently added on to keep up with the demand, right?

And there will still be plenty of people still buying cars after this program ends, right?

This is great news!

right?

Chief Henry
08-21-2009, 08:35 AM
This cash for clunkers deal will create many, many permanent jobs in auto manufacturing, right?

I mean, they're not going to lay off any of those recently added on to keep up with the demand, right?

And there will still be plenty of people still buying cars after this program ends, right?

This is great news!

right?



If this was such a HUGE success, why won't they re-up this program ?

Brock
08-21-2009, 08:37 AM
If this was such a HUGE success, why won't they re-up this program ?

How much more do you want to spend on it?

Inspector
08-21-2009, 08:48 AM
Hey....wait just a darn minute....

I thought Obama was paying for this.....

Are you suggesting it was someone else paying?

Wha....So just where did that dough come from? Not the citizens. We're all broke!!

What's going on here???? This is supposed to be a boon for our economy. You're making it sound like they are just shuffling money from some tax payers to others. Almost like, I don't know, spreading the wealth around or something.

I thought we were all in agreement that we need the government smaller with less interference in our lives. I'm confused how this helps that happen.

If I didn't no better I'd think something fishy was going on with our employees we hired to run and reduce our government.

orange
08-21-2009, 08:52 AM
I thought we were all in agreement that we need the government smaller

I have NO idea where you got such a notion. It couldn't possibly be from the huge majorities Democrats WON in the last two elections.

Inspector
08-21-2009, 08:56 AM
I have NO idea where you got such a notion. It couldn't possibly be from the huge majorities Democrats WON in the last two elections.


Surely there isn't any of the political parties suggesting we need more or bigger government?

That's just crazy talk.

I'm not going to believe for one second that any Americans are that crazy. No way.

mlyonsd
08-21-2009, 09:56 AM
How much more do you want to spend on it?

We could could easily put the car companies in the black if every American bought a car for themselves, spouses, and kids.

It's a no brainer.

Brock
08-21-2009, 09:58 AM
We could could easily put the car companies in the black if every American bought a car for themselves, spouses, and kids.

It's a no brainer.

The question was "if this program was a success, why don't they continue it?".

ROYC75
08-21-2009, 10:00 AM
This is just wonderful...... we are helping a lot of people by a car.

Glad this is ending.

mlyonsd
08-21-2009, 10:02 AM
The question was "if this program was a success, why don't they continue it?".

Right, and I just pushed the idea further. Past just helping out the car companies to out right giving enough government money away they operate in the black.

I can't believe our democratic congress hasn't come up with that one yet.

Chief Henry
08-21-2009, 10:09 AM
The question was "if this program was a success, why don't they continue it?".

If its a good thing - why not continue the program ?

If One Billion is good - then 10 Billion should be better.

Why would Obama stop such great program ?

They should consider doing it with farm tractors.

Brock
08-21-2009, 10:32 AM
If its a good thing - why not continue the program ?

If One Billion is good - then 10 Billion should be better.

Why would Obama stop such great program ?

They should consider doing it with farm tractors.

You sound like another one of those small government republicans.

Brock
08-21-2009, 10:33 AM
This is just wonderful...... we are helping a lot of people by a car.

Glad this is ending.

Yeah, gosh, it was soooo awful.

Chief Henry
08-21-2009, 10:37 AM
You sound like another one of those small government republicans.


And you've got no answer to a serious question.

Brock
08-21-2009, 10:40 AM
And you've got no answer to a serious question.

I don't think your question really was serious.

mikey23545
08-21-2009, 10:47 AM
They are going to reach the $3B limit by Monday. What's the issue with that?

What the hell, it's not your money, right?

Cave Johnson
08-21-2009, 10:47 AM
JFC. Angelina Jolie and Megan Fox could offer you people a ménage à trois and you'd bitch about the size of their tits.

mikey23545
08-21-2009, 10:50 AM
Yeah, gosh, it was soooo awful.

Well, at least we know you have a price...$4500....

Inspector
08-21-2009, 10:50 AM
JFC. Angelina Jolie and Megan Fox could offer you people a ménage à trois and you'd bitch about the size of their tits.


How much would that costs and who pays for it?

Brock
08-21-2009, 10:51 AM
Well, at least we know you have a price...$4500....

That's rather presumptive of you. If Bush had come up with this, most of these guys would have been defending it to the death.

Cave Johnson
08-21-2009, 10:54 AM
How much would that costs and who pays for it?

And my point is made in gramatically incorrect fashion.

Inspector
08-21-2009, 11:00 AM
And my point is made in gramatically incorrect fashion.


Um...ok.

Calcountry
08-21-2009, 11:15 AM
If they haven't paid out anything, how - praytell could they have run out of money? :DHave you sold your bonds yet? Full faith and credit of the US government is overdue for a downgrade.

Chief Henry
08-21-2009, 11:57 AM
I don't think your question really was serious.



:rolleyes: Its a very serious question.

Brock
08-21-2009, 12:07 PM
:rolleyes: Its a very serious question.

Your real question seems to be "why are they limiting the amount of money spent on this program?". If that is a serious question, it's also a stupid one.

Mojo Jojo
08-21-2009, 12:36 PM
Your real question seems to be "why are they limiting the amount of money spent on this program?". If that is a serious question, it's also a stupid one.

Even if it is stupid, are you going to answer it?

Brock
08-21-2009, 12:38 PM
Even if it is stupid, are you going to answer it?

If I must: For the same reason you limit spending on anything else.

Mojo Jojo
08-21-2009, 12:40 PM
If I must: For the same reason you limit spending on anything else.

So you are saying it was a great $3 billion program, but not good enough for $4 billion?

Brock
08-21-2009, 12:44 PM
So you are saying it was a great $3 billion program, but not good enough for $4 billion?

It isn't a question of "good enough". If I go to the store, I don't buy 16 gallons of ice cream because it's good enough. I decide how much I need and buy that. You can disagree with how much they spent on it, you can say it was a bad idea to begin with, but to act like it was a bad idea and shutting it down now proves it is freaking moronic.

Mojo Jojo
08-21-2009, 12:50 PM
It isn't a question of "good enough". If I go to the store, I don't buy 16 gallons of ice cream because it's good enough. I decide how much I need and buy that. You can disagree with how much they spent on it, you can say it was a bad idea to begin with, but to act like it was a bad idea and shutting it down now proves it is freaking moronic.

OK...so if and/or when BHO & co. pass health care will there be a magic number? $1 trillion is a great program...$1.3 trillion and we don't need to buy that much?

Brock
08-21-2009, 12:51 PM
OK...so if and/or when BHO & co. pass health care will there be a magic number? $1 trillion is a great program...$1.3 trillion and we don't need to buy that much?

I'm not in favor of government health care, so I'll call this post meaningless digression.

Saul Good
08-21-2009, 08:15 PM
I can't wait until 18-24 months from now when the used car market is flooded with repossessed cars. I'll buy a couple of low mileage used cars for about $0.50 on the dollar. Some idiot who was driving a $2,000 car (probably still owing $5,000 on the note) and traded it in for a $25,000 car (after the $4,500 credit, of course) will have defaulted on his payments.

He'll go back to driving a $2,000 car (while now being on the hook for about $12,000 after the repo), and I'll buy the 2 year old car with a $29,500 sticker price for about $14,500. I'll sell my car for about $7,000 and pay cash for the difference.

I will be the beneficiary of a heavily (indirectly) subsidized purchase, and I have a six figure income. Sometimes the law of unintended consequences works in the favor of the least needy.

In the meantime, I think I'll scoop up a couple of properties that were foreclosed after the loosening of the lending restrictions allowed people with no business buying a house to buy a house. The invisible hand of the market is moving chess pieces around the board.