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View Full Version : Obama Obama Underwrites Offshore Drilling ..in Brazil!!!


petegz28
08-21-2009, 01:23 PM
You read that headline correctly. Unfortunately, the Obama Administration is financing oil exploration off Brazil.

The U.S. is going to lend billions of dollars to Brazil's state-owned oil company, Petrobras, to finance exploration of the huge offshore discovery in Brazil's Tupi oil field in the Santos Basin near Rio de Janeiro. Brazil's planning minister confirmed that White House National Security Adviser James Jones met this month with Brazilian officials to talk about the loan.

The U.S. Export-Import Bank tells us it has issued a "preliminary commitment" letter to Petrobras in the amount of $2 billion and has discussed with Brazil the possibility of increasing that amount. Ex-Im Bank says it has not decided whether the money will come in the form of a direct loan or loan guarantees. Either way, this corporate foreign aid may strike some readers as odd, given that the U.S. Treasury seems desperate for cash and Petrobras is one of the largest corporations in the Americas.

But look on the bright side. If President Obama has embraced offshore drilling in Brazil, why not in the old U.S.A.? The land of the sorta free and the home of the heavily indebted has enormous offshore oil deposits, and last year ahead of the November elections, with gasoline at $4 a gallon, Congress let a ban on offshore drilling expire.

The Bush Administration's five-year plan (2007-2012) to open the outer continental shelf to oil exploration included new lease sales in the Gulf of Mexico. But in 2007 environmentalists went to court to block drilling in Alaska and in April a federal court ruled in their favor. In May, Interior Secretary Ken Salazar said his department was unsure whether that ruling applied only to Alaska or all offshore drilling. So it asked an appeals court for clarification. Late last month the court said the earlier decision applied only to Alaska, opening the way for the sale of leases in the Gulf. Mr. Salazar now says the sales will go forward on August 19.

This is progress, however slow. But it still doesn't allow the U.S. to explore in Alaska or along the East and West Coasts, which could be our equivalent of the Tupi oil fields, which are set to make Brazil a leading oil exporter. Americans are right to wonder why Mr. Obama is underwriting in Brazil what he won't allow at home.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203863204574346610120524166.html

HonestChieffan
08-21-2009, 01:28 PM
2 billion for the UN last week and no one seemed to care. Money to help Brazil drill but none for our own, Billions to Hammas....

And no on even seems to object.

KC Dan
08-21-2009, 01:34 PM
hope and change.....for stupid, ignorant people.....

Brock
08-21-2009, 01:36 PM
I'm perfectly okay with leaving our oil in the ground.

petegz28
08-21-2009, 01:36 PM
The funniest part is we are giving money to someone to do what we need to do but he doesn't want us to do.

LMAO this guy is a fucking idiot. He makes Bush more intelligent everyday.

petegz28
08-21-2009, 01:37 PM
I'm perfectly okay with leaving our oil in the ground.

Why?

Brock
08-21-2009, 01:39 PM
Why?

So we'll still have it later.

petegz28
08-21-2009, 01:41 PM
So we'll still have it later.

Um, ok...not sure I understand your logic behind that, but ok

Amnorix
08-21-2009, 01:41 PM
I'm perfectly okay with leaving our oil in the ground.

This.


So we'll still have it later.

and this.

HonestChieffan
08-21-2009, 01:42 PM
The funniest part is we are giving money to someone to do what we need to do but he doesn't want us to do.

LMAO this guy is a ****ing idiot. He makes Bush more intelligent everyday.

Hes giving money for something private industry would do here on their own...amazing

Amnorix
08-21-2009, 01:42 PM
Um, ok...not sure I understand your logic behind that, but ok

It's a limited commodity. Better to save it as a domestic strategic reserve -- without incurring storage costs -- than to just save a buck a barrel and a nickel a gallon.

That said, we should begin preparatory work so that the lead time to get the stuff out of the ground is reduced.

petegz28
08-21-2009, 01:45 PM
It's a limited commodity. Better to save it as a domestic strategic reserve -- without incurring storage costs -- than to just save a buck a barrel and a nickel a gallon.

That said, we should begin preparatory work so that the lead time to get the stuff out of the ground is reduced.

Ok so what happened to all the "getting off foreign oil" chatter then?

petegz28
08-21-2009, 01:46 PM
Hes giving money for something private industry would do here on their own...amazing

exactly.....he is an idiot

Amnorix
08-21-2009, 01:46 PM
Hey, by the way, you know what the export-import bank does right? It helps arrange financing for purchases of United States exported goods. In other words, it's akin to a leasing company for exports of US goods. Which is especially important right now because (1) US demand is very soft, (2) Brazil's oil industry is going gangbusters, and (3) we expect the freaking loan to be REPAID. This is not a freebie giveaway. It creates jobs in the US.

Or would you rather have China give the loan, get the interest, and have them buy German goods?

http://www.exim.gov/pressrelease.cfm/C862E339-D537-79E7-A58FCF6AAEFF8902/

Brock
08-21-2009, 01:46 PM
Ok so what happened to all the "getting off foreign oil" chatter then?

We need to get off of oil, period.

HonestChieffan
08-21-2009, 01:47 PM
We need to get off of oil, period.

we could do both...

Amnorix
08-21-2009, 01:48 PM
Ok so what happened to all the "getting off foreign oil" chatter then?

That's not my chatter. Never has been.

The Chinese are out there being completely brilliant -- they're overexposed on US dollars that may be inflationary and can't dump them all without destroying the world's economy, so they're spending them like mad. On what? Buying interests in foreign oil resources. South America, Middle East and Russia. Everywhere.

We're run by economic idiots, so we can't do that. But we can save our oil for a rainy day, instead of saving Joe a nickel a gallon on some pipe dream (pun intended) of "getting off" foreign oil.

ChiTown
08-21-2009, 01:49 PM
We need to get off of oil, period.

and get on what, that is actually technologically available and affordable?

Amnorix
08-21-2009, 01:50 PM
We need to get off of oil, period.

An absurdly long process. Right now I'd be happy to start reducign our exposure to oil.

Nuclear power plants, switching federal/state vehicles to electric. There's alot more we can be doing than we are.

Amnorix
08-21-2009, 01:51 PM
and get on what, that is actually technologically available and affordable?

Nuculur for one. Japan's power grid is something like 80+% nuckler. We're at 20'ish.

ChiTown
08-21-2009, 01:56 PM
Nuculur for one. Japan's power grid is something like 80+% nuckler. We're at 20'ish.

How does nuke significantly reduce your needs for oil?

Brock
08-21-2009, 01:56 PM
How does nuke significantly reduce your needs for oil?

Good grief. ROFL

ChiTown
08-21-2009, 01:57 PM
Good grief. ROFL

Yes?

KC Dan
08-21-2009, 01:58 PM
Nuculur for one. Japan's power grid is something like 80+% nuckler. We're at 20'ish.Absolutely!!!!

dirk digler
08-21-2009, 02:03 PM
Hey, by the way, you know what the export-import bank does right? It helps arrange financing for purchases of United States exported goods. In other words, it's akin to a leasing company for exports of US goods. Which is especially important right now because (1) US demand is very soft, (2) Brazil's oil industry is going gangbusters, and (3) we expect the freaking loan to be REPAID. This is not a freebie giveaway. It creates jobs in the US.

Or would you rather have China give the loan, get the interest, and have them buy German goods?

http://www.exim.gov/pressrelease.cfm/C862E339-D537-79E7-A58FCF6AAEFF8902/

Yep. I thought the OP bogus story was debunked days ago.

Amnorix
08-21-2009, 02:04 PM
How does nuke significantly reduce your needs for oil?

I plan to use them to blow up the "red states". That's alot of cars and tractors and redneck pickup trucks off the roads.











:p

Amnorix
08-21-2009, 02:05 PM
Yep. I thought the OP bogus story was debunked days ago.

Fuhgetaboutit. Misinformation is the lifeblood of the opposition at the moment.

I'm sure it was the same way with the Democrats under Bush, but I don't remember it being quite this bad. Must be the pretty rose colored glasses I'm wearing, no doubt, but still...

petegz28
08-21-2009, 02:30 PM
how does one make plastics and all that crap for our electonics fetish we have in this without oil?

Amnorix
08-21-2009, 02:36 PM
how does one make plastics and all that crap for our electonics fetish we have in this without oil?

Perhaps unlike Brock (?), I don't think we can be completely weaned off oil in the foreseeable future.

I merely wish to reduce our exposure to oil as much as possible. You should also keep in mind that not all oil is the same. Some oil is more valuable than others. I have no idea if the petroleum products used in plastics are the same as what is needed to make gasoline, but I would tend to doubt it.

CoMoChief
08-21-2009, 02:36 PM
So we'll still have it later.

ROFL i dont know why i think this response was funny.

jjjayb
08-21-2009, 02:37 PM
Coincidence?

These are the top 5 holdings of George Soros

1.Petroleo Brasileiro S.A.Petrobras (PBR) - 9,818,323 shares, 15.42% of the total portfolio
2.Hess Corp. (HES) - 5,123,198 shares, 10.56% of the total portfolio
3.Petroleo Brasileiro S.A.Petrobras (PBR-A) - 5,884,700 shares, 7.53% of the total portfolio
4.Potash Corp. of Saskatchewan Inc. (POT) - 1,978,053 shares, 7.06% of the total portfolio
5.Plains Exploration & Production Company (PXP) - 6,526,400 shares, 6.84% of the total portfolio

Even more coincidence?

His New York-based hedge-fund firm, Soros Fund Management LLC, sold 22 million U.S.-listed common shares of Petrobras, as the Brazilian oil company is known, according to a filing today with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. Soros bought 5.8 million of the company’s U.S.-traded preferred shares.
Soros is taking advantage of the spread between the two types of U.S.-listed Petrobras shares, said Luis Maizel, president of LM Capital Group LLC, which manages about $4 billion. The common shares were 21 percent more expensive than preferred today, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. …
Petrobras preferred shares have also a 10 percent additional dividend, said William Landers, a senior portfolio manager for Latin America at Blackrock Inc.
“Given that there will most likely never be a change in control in the company, I see no reason to pay a higher price for the common shares.” Brazil’s government controls Petrobras and has a majority stake of voting shares.

This news is from last Friday. Insider trading anyone?

KC native
08-21-2009, 02:41 PM
Coincidence?

These are the top 5 holdings of George Soros

1.Petroleo Brasileiro S.A.Petrobras (PBR) - 9,818,323 shares, 15.42% of the total portfolio
2.Hess Corp. (HES) - 5,123,198 shares, 10.56% of the total portfolio
3.Petroleo Brasileiro S.A.Petrobras (PBR-A) - 5,884,700 shares, 7.53% of the total portfolio
4.Potash Corp. of Saskatchewan Inc. (POT) - 1,978,053 shares, 7.06% of the total portfolio
5.Plains Exploration & Production Company (PXP) - 6,526,400 shares, 6.84% of the total portfolio

Even more coincidence?



This news is from last Friday. Insider trading anyone?

When did he buy it? You're making a big accusation that you have no evidence of. You are aware that Petrobras is a massive company and is widely held as an investment right?

KC native
08-21-2009, 02:44 PM
and I think Amnorix already mentioned it but I'll say it again. It's a loan. It will be paid back. We're not giving them money.

KC Dan
08-21-2009, 02:46 PM
When did he buy it? You're making a big accusation that you have no evidence of. You are aware that Petrobras is a massive company and is widely held as an investment right?Nothing different from what your ilk were doing during the last admin. Of course, it had something to do with it. Don't you all believe that all rich people and politician's are corrupt and will do anything to get richer?

KC Dan
08-21-2009, 02:47 PM
and I think Amnorix already mentioned it but I'll say it again. It's a loan. It will be paid back. We're not giving them money.How about Soros' capital gains? Will those be paid back?

KC native
08-21-2009, 02:48 PM
Nothing different from what your ilk were doing during the last admin. Of course, it had something to do with it. Don't you all believe that all rich people and politician's are corrupt and will do anything to get richer?

I didn't. Insider trading is pretty obvious and someone like Soros (the amount of money he has is what I mean by that) would not get away with it.

KC native
08-21-2009, 02:49 PM
How about Soros' capital gains? Will those be paid back?

Will he not pay taxes on them?

Brock
08-21-2009, 02:49 PM
ROFL i dont know why i think this response was funny.

I don't either.

Stewie
08-21-2009, 02:51 PM
I thought Brazil had all the answers. Ya know, grow sugar cane to fuel automobiles. Those people are geniouses! Just look at the newspaper articles!

It's funny they have to use fossil fuels for fertilizer, diesel, electricity. Hmm... this whole "green energy" game is a zero-sum game, isn't it?

***SPRAYER
08-21-2009, 03:20 PM
Kind of odd that Soros increased his holding in Petrobras to like 70% of his portfolio just a few weeks ago.

Coincidence? Nah, couldn't be.

:drool:

Stewie
08-21-2009, 03:24 PM
Kind of odd that Soros increased his holding in Petrobras to like 70% of his portfolio just a few weeks ago.

Coincidence? Nah, couldn't be.

:drool:

ROFL He doesn't play the currency game either, does he?

Radar Chief
08-21-2009, 03:29 PM
Yes?

A large portion of our electricity is still generated by burning fuel oil, basically Diesel without the road tax. Switching that to nucular ;) frees up that oil for other needs.

Donger
08-21-2009, 03:55 PM
A large portion of our electricity is still generated by burning fuel oil, basically Diesel without the road tax. Switching that to nucular ;) frees up that oil for other needs.

That depends on how you define "large portion." It's something like 2%

Radar Chief
08-21-2009, 03:58 PM
That depends on how you define "large portion." It's something like 2%

Really, I would have assumed a lot more. C-town and all the towns in the area are on it. :shrug:

Donger
08-21-2009, 04:01 PM
Really, I would have assumed a lot more. C-town and all the towns in the area are on it. :shrug:

The breakdown is something like this:

50% coal-burning
20% natural gas
20% nuclear
5% hydro
5% other (including wind, petroleum, solar, etc.)

Radar Chief
08-21-2009, 04:02 PM
Interesting. From Wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_oil

Residual fuel's use in electricity generation has also decreased. In 1973, residual fuel oil produced 16.8% of the electricity in the United States. By 1983, it had fallen to 6.2%, and as of 2005, electricity production from all forms of petroleum, including diesel and residual fuel, is only 3% of total production. The decline is the result of price competition with natural gas and environmental restrictions on emissions. For power plants, the costs of heating the oil, extra pollution control and additional maintenance required after burning it often outweigh the low cost of the fuel. Burning fuel oil, particularly residual fuel oil, also produces much darker smoke than natural gas, which affects the perception of the plant by the community.

Amnorix
08-21-2009, 04:03 PM
United States energy production (the last column is the one that matters most for our purposes):

<TABLE class="wikitable sortable" id=sortable_table_id_0><CAPTION>Electrical Production in the United States for 2006</CAPTION><TBODY><TR><TH>Power Source http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_States#)</TH><TH>Units in Operation http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_States#)</TH><TH>Total Nameplate Capacity (MW) http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_States#)</TH><TH>% of total Capacity http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_States#)</TH><TH>Annual Production (billion kWh) http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_States#)</TH><TH> % of annual production http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_States#)</TH></TR><TR><TD>Wind Power (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_Power)</TD><TD><CENTER>341</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>11,603</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>1.08%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>30.3</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>0.7%</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Solar Energy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Energy)</TD><TD><CENTER>31</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>411</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>0.04%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>2.1</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>0.1%</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Petroleum Coke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_coke) Fueled Boiler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiler)</TD><TD><CENTER>31</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>1,754</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>0.16%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>46.4</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>1.1%</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Oil Fired (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil) Boiler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiler)</TD><TD><CENTER>327</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>34,975</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>3.25%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>7.8</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>0.2%</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Nuclear Power (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Power)</TD><TD><CENTER>104</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>105,584</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>9.82%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>787</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>19.4%</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Natural Gas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_Gas) Fueled Boiler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiler)</TD><TD><CENTER>776</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>97,632</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>9.08%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>159</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>3.9%</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Diesel Generators (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine)</TD><TD><CENTER>4,514</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>8,563</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>0.8%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>13.8</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>0.3%</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Incinerators (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incinerator)</TD><TD><CENTER>96</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>2,671</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>0.25%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>12.3</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>0.3%</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Hydroelectric (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroelectric)</TD><TD><CENTER>4,138</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>96,988</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>9.02%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>282</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>7.0%</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Geothermal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_Energy)</TD><TD><CENTER>215</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>3,170</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>0.29%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>13.5</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>0.30%</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Fuel Oil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_Oil)</TD><TD><CENTER>13</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>956</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>0.09%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>8.5</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>0.2%</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Combustion Turbine Generators (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_Turbine)</TD><TD><CENTER>2,882</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>155,227</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>14.4%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>147</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>3.6%</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Combined Cycle Natural Gas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel_power_plant#Gas_turbine_combined-cycle_plants)</TD><TD><CENTER>1,686</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>216,269</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>20.1%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>505</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>12.4%</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Coal Fired Boilers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal)</TD><TD><CENTER>1,460</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>333,115</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>30.9%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>1,995</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>49.1%</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Biomass (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomass)</TD><TD><CENTER>270</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>6,256</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>0.58%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>53.5</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>1.3%</CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Amnorix
08-21-2009, 04:05 PM
The US, by the way, sits on veritable mountains of coal. The good news is that we have mountains of coal. The bad news is that it's ridiculously and horribly pollutive. If we can really do a good job of improving technologies to clean up using coal, that would be great. Tremendous strides have been made in this area, but it's still pretty tough on the environment.

ChiTown
08-21-2009, 04:10 PM
United States energy production (the last column is the one that matters most for our purposes):

<TABLE class="wikitable sortable" id=sortable_table_id_0><CAPTION>Electrical Production in the United States for 2006</CAPTION><TBODY><TR><TH>Power Source http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_States#)</TH><TH>Units in Operation http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_States#)</TH><TH>Total Nameplate Capacity (MW) http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_States#)</TH><TH>% of total Capacity http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_States#)</TH><TH>Annual Production (billion kWh) http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_States#)</TH><TH> % of annual production http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_States#)</TH></TR><TR><TD>Wind Power (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_Power)</TD><TD><CENTER>341</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>11,603</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>1.08%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>30.3</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>0.7%</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Solar Energy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Energy)</TD><TD><CENTER>31</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>411</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>0.04%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>2.1</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>0.1%</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Petroleum Coke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_coke) Fueled Boiler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiler)</TD><TD><CENTER>31</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>1,754</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>0.16%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>46.4</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>1.1%</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Oil Fired (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil) Boiler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiler)</TD><TD><CENTER>327</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>34,975</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>3.25%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>7.8</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>0.2%</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Nuclear Power (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Power)</TD><TD><CENTER>104</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>105,584</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>9.82%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>787</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>19.4%</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Natural Gas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_Gas) Fueled Boiler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiler)</TD><TD><CENTER>776</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>97,632</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>9.08%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>159</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>3.9%</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Diesel Generators (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine)</TD><TD><CENTER>4,514</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>8,563</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>0.8%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>13.8</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>0.3%</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Incinerators (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incinerator)</TD><TD><CENTER>96</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>2,671</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>0.25%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>12.3</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>0.3%</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Hydroelectric (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroelectric)</TD><TD><CENTER>4,138</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>96,988</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>9.02%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>282</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>7.0%</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Geothermal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_Energy)</TD><TD><CENTER>215</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>3,170</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>0.29%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>13.5</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>0.30%</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Fuel Oil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_Oil)</TD><TD><CENTER>13</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>956</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>0.09%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>8.5</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>0.2%</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Combustion Turbine Generators (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_Turbine)</TD><TD><CENTER>2,882</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>155,227</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>14.4%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>147</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>3.6%</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Combined Cycle Natural Gas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel_power_plant#Gas_turbine_combined-cycle_plants)</TD><TD><CENTER>1,686</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>216,269</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>20.1%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>505</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>12.4%</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Coal Fired Boilers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal)</TD><TD><CENTER>1,460</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>333,115</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>30.9%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>1,995</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>49.1%</CENTER></TD></TR><TR><TD>Biomass (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomass)</TD><TD><CENTER>270</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>6,256</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>0.58%</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>53.5</CENTER></TD><TD><CENTER>1.3%</CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Hence my comment. Nukes don't reduce your need for oil (relative to electric production), it "could" reduce your need for Coal & Nat Gas (although nat gas is plentiful and clean). The bigger problems for nukes would be the waste it generates and the amount of Uranium it would take to produce Nuc E, in lieu of Coal/Gas fired Energy.

Donger
08-21-2009, 04:10 PM
In related news, crude approached $75/barrel today. A new high for 2009 and the highest it's been since October of 2008.

petegz28
08-21-2009, 04:29 PM
I didn't. Insider trading is pretty obvious and someone like Soros (the amount of money he has is what I mean by that) would not get away with it.

Uh...excuse me?

Insider trading conviction of Soros is upheld - Business - International Herald Tribune
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/14/business/worldbusiness/14iht-soros.1974397.html


he has done it before

KC native
08-21-2009, 04:38 PM
Uh...excuse me?

Insider trading conviction of Soros is upheld - Business - International Herald Tribune
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/14/business/worldbusiness/14iht-soros.1974397.html


he has done it before

You are aware that PBR trades in the US and falls under the purview of the SEC right?

petegz28
08-21-2009, 04:45 PM
You are aware that PBR trades in the US and falls under the purview of the SEC right?

LMAO...the SEC...ok.....you got me there....ROFL

IS that the same SEC that did nothing when Terry McCaullife sold a ton of Global Crossing afer playing golf with Bubba Clinton and the CEO of GC right before the company tanked?

KC native
08-21-2009, 04:53 PM
LMAO...the SEC...ok.....you got me there....ROFL

IS that the same SEC that did nothing when Terry McCaullife sold a ton of Global Crossing afer playing golf with Bubba Clinton and the CEO of GC right before the company tanked?

I didn't say they were good or effective but for someone with as many political enemies as him, do you think an investigator would hesitate to go after him?

petegz28
08-21-2009, 04:54 PM
I didn't say they were good or effective but for someone with as many political enemies as him, do you think an investigator would hesitate to go after him?

Dude, he is one of the biggest donors of the current majority party and President. Stop being so naive. Look what happened to AG's that went after Obama's buddy in CA?? They got FIRED!

KC native
08-21-2009, 04:56 PM
Dude, he is one of the biggest donors of the current majority party and President. Stop being so naive. Look what happened to AG's that went after Obama's buddy in CA?? They got FIRED!

That doesn't matter. SEC investigators are career people not appointees. A lot of them want to get a couple of good cases and then hop the fence and make a shit load of money as a compliance person for private industry.

petegz28
08-21-2009, 04:58 PM
That doesn't matter. SEC investigators are career people not appointees. A lot of them want to get a couple of good cases and then hop the fence and make a shit load of money as a compliance person for private industry.

K, believe the SEC will save us if you wish

Hydrae
08-21-2009, 05:04 PM
how does one make plastics and all that crap for our electonics fetish we have in this without oil?

Plastics are made from very light oils I believe. I know plastics can be made from peanut oil. I would like to see us growing large amounts of hemp and using the seed oil for lubricants and it can probably be used for plastics as well. I am sure soy oil can be used as well. There are a lot of options other than fossil fuels for making plastics.

Saul Good
08-21-2009, 10:48 PM
Good grief. ROFL

It seems like a legitimate question to me. Power generated from nuclear plants and power generated from the burning of oil and oil-based products tend to have almost completely different applications.

I am not aware of many nuclear powered cars or homes that are heated with nuclear furnaces.

Brock
08-22-2009, 10:06 AM
It seems like a legitimate question to me. Power generated from nuclear plants and power generated from the burning of oil and oil-based products tend to have almost completely different applications.

I am not aware of many nuclear powered cars or homes that are heated with nuclear furnaces.

you've never heard of an electric car or an electric furnace? Huh.