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View Full Version : General Politics Think the US doesn't need health care reform? Think again.


jidar
08-21-2009, 12:51 PM
You can't make it any simpler than this.


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patteeu
08-21-2009, 01:34 PM
Who says health care doesn't need reform? Government interference has created a mess of our health care system. It definitely needs reform but it doesn't need the kind of reform the democrats want to impose.

patteeu
08-21-2009, 01:42 PM
Why should we assume that overall life expectancy is a good measure of health care quality? There are a bunch of factors that have nothing to do with health care that impact life expectancy (e.g. accidents, drug use, diet, violent crime, behavioral differences, etc.).

googlegoogle
08-21-2009, 01:44 PM
Obama and his cronies don't want reform as they label it. They want take over and they want to EXPAND it. (for illegals)

googlegoogle
08-21-2009, 01:50 PM
Life expectancy stats proves the bias of this video. America is not Canada or the UK.

Life expectancy is right with all other countries when you remove ethnics in our country who like gang warfare.

myth no.6
http://freemarketcure.com/singlepayermyths.php

penchief
08-21-2009, 01:52 PM
Who says health care doesn't need reform? Government interference has created a mess of our health care system. It definitely needs reform but it doesn't need the kind of reform the democrats want to impose.

At least we're getting somewhere when those on the right admit something needs to be done. Funny how that never happens when they are in power. Only when they are trying to prevent something from being done by the opposition party.

patteeu
08-21-2009, 01:56 PM
At least we're getting somewhere when those on the right admit something needs to be done. Funny how that never happens when they are in power. Only when they are trying to prevent something from being done by the opposition party.

What do you mean it "never happens when they are in power"? I don't agree with it, but the Bush administration and it's Republican Congress passed a major medicare reform that amounted to a new prescription drug entitlement just a few years ago.

ChiTown
08-21-2009, 01:57 PM
At least we're getting somewhere when those on the right admit something needs to be done. Funny how that never happens when they are in power. Only when they are trying to prevent something from being done by the opposition party.

:rolleyes:

GMAFB.

HolyHandgernade
08-21-2009, 02:03 PM
Who says health care doesn't need reform? Government interference has created a mess of our health care system. It definitely needs reform but it doesn't need the kind of reform the democrats want to impose.

Well, I've already seen on this board where people say "Who says it is broken"? When one points out some of the aspects, they try to separate non separable issues ("There's a difference between 'health care' and 'health insurance'"). So, exactly when did the Republicans "notice" reform was needed? They had eight years to enact the kind of form they would have liked to have seen yet avoided it like the plague. Now, even after most Americans say it is one of the most important issues of our nation, they just criticize, they use scare tactics, they don't offer a viable alternative. Why should I believe the Republicans have ANY motivation to offer any sort of substantial health care reform?

-HH

blaise
08-21-2009, 02:05 PM
At least we're getting somewhere when those on the right admit something needs to be done. Funny how that never happens when they are in power. Only when they are trying to prevent something from being done by the opposition party.

Yeah, "they" always are doing this and that.

Stewie
08-21-2009, 02:07 PM
It's funny he never mentions the U.S. FDA as a huge cost in health care. Yeah, that's right! A gov't agency bureaucracy adds cost. Who knew?

jidar
08-21-2009, 02:15 PM
Life expectancy stats proves the bias of this video. America is not Canada or the UK.

Life expectancy is right with all other countries when you remove ethnics in our country who like gang warfare.

myth no.6
http://freemarketcure.com/singlepayermyths.php

You can't just selectively remove the parts of the population you don't want to consider. Do you think other countries don't have poor ethnic populations? Don't be silly.

HonestChieffan
08-21-2009, 02:16 PM
At least we're getting somewhere when those on the right admit something needs to be done. Funny how that never happens when they are in power. Only when they are trying to prevent something from being done by the opposition party.

You need dumbass tattooed on your head.

BucEyedPea
08-21-2009, 06:00 PM
Oh yeah! The fake "scientific" approach the left puts on. That means no one can question it. He doesn't address causes. He's all airs. He sounds like a Brit too.

And a 4 year difference between Japan and America is life expectancy is not a major difference.

patteeu
08-21-2009, 06:05 PM
Well, I've already seen on this board where people say "Who says it is broken"? When one points out some of the aspects, they try to separate non separable issues ("There's a difference between 'health care' and 'health insurance'"). So, exactly when did the Republicans "notice" reform was needed? They had eight years to enact the kind of form they would have liked to have seen yet avoided it like the plague. Now, even after most Americans say it is one of the most important issues of our nation, they just criticize, they use scare tactics, they don't offer a viable alternative. Why should I believe the Republicans have ANY motivation to offer any sort of substantial health care reform?

-HH

It's a fact that Republicans have made proposals for various health care reforms on many occasions during the past 8 years including the current House and Senate Republicans. Surely you're aware of the major prescription drug entitlement that Bush championed and passed during his first term, but maybe you don't realize that he made this proposal (http://money.cnn.com/2007/01/23/pf/taxes/health_proposal_effect/index.htm) in 2007? Now, it's true that Republicans didn't make it their top priority, but that's because they already had a top priority in the GWoT. Most Americans weren't making health care reform a top priority during those 8 years either. With Bush putting most of his focus on the GWoT and nobody really clamoring for health care reform in 2007, it was easy for democrats to oppose the Republican ideas on health care and not worth the effort for Republicans to spend a lot of time trying to pass legislation so it died before it went very far.

Let's face it. Part of the reason why health care is again a "crisis" is because democrats want it to be a crisis (and spend a lot of time exaggerating the number of people who are uninsured, for example).

chiefzilla1501
08-21-2009, 07:03 PM
You can't make it any simpler than this.


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What's your point? The video states that there is ability to make massive changes by reforming health care without introducing a public option. That's really the public's beef with Obamacare.

Almost everybody agrees that the health care system is broken. Few have said otherwise. Most just disagree that it needs to be fixed with a trillion dollars of spending. The above video points to a reform that can be fixed at almost no cost.

penchief
08-22-2009, 09:34 AM
What do you mean it "never happens when they are in power"? I don't agree with it, but the Bush administration and it's Republican Congress passed a major medicare reform that amounted to a new prescription drug entitlement just a few years ago.

Again, that did nothing to provide additional prescription drug benefts. The previous Medicare system already provided a prescription benefit that did not leave anyone lacking. The only thing Bush's change did was allow the corporatatization of Medicare. And that was really all he intended to do.

Now the cost to the taxpayer has been ballooned and the system has become much less efficient all for the sake of corporate welfare. Hell, the crap has gotten so complicated that seniors have to undergo counseling just to sort through all the fine print included in the claims of those who are now profiting from Medicare as unnecessary middlemen.

penchief
08-22-2009, 09:38 AM
:rolleyes:

GMAFB.

I think its pretty clear that republicans care more about stopping health care reform and defending the profits of the health care industry. The only time they seem to care about the plight of the American public is when something is trying to be done in earnest. Then they are outraged.

They still are more interested in stopping anything that will result in real change than they are providing a viable alternative. There is a reason for that. Do you know what it is?

penchief
08-22-2009, 09:41 AM
Yeah, "they" always are doing this and that.

Explain what they have to done affect the problem in a positive way. How high on the agenda has runaway health care costs and health insurance costs been for republicans?

Now it's the most important thing in the world for republicans to stop anything that might address it in a tangible way. If they really cared about health care for the citizens of this country they would work with democrats to come up with something that everyone can agree on. But they're not. They only want to kill any chance it has by scaring the shit out of people and accusing democrats of wanting to be tyrants.

chiefzilla1501
08-22-2009, 11:24 AM
Explain what they have to done affect the problem in a positive way. How high on the agenda has runaway health care costs and health insurance costs been for republicans?

Now it's the most important thing in the world for republicans to stop anything that might address it in a tangible way. If they really cared about health care for the citizens of this country they would work with democrats to come up with something that everyone can agree on. But they're not. They only want to kill any chance it has by scaring the shit out of people and accusing democrats of wanting to be tyrants.

I'm a moderate, so I believe that on most issues, both republicans and democrats are wrong. The answer, in my opinion, is usually somewhere in the middle.

The Republicans' role is to provide some opposition to the liberal agenda. And we're damn lucky they did. Or else we would have made the same mistakes we made after 9/11, when the Bush administration had pretty much free reign to enact all their policies without political opposition.

Saul Good
08-22-2009, 03:18 PM
Well, I've already seen on this board where people say "Who says it is broken"? When one points out some of the aspects, they try to separate non separable issues ("There's a difference between 'health care' and 'health insurance'"). So, exactly when did the Republicans "notice" reform was needed? They had eight years to enact the kind of form they would have liked to have seen yet avoided it like the plague. Now, even after most Americans say it is one of the most important issues of our nation, they just criticize, they use scare tactics, they don't offer a viable alternative. Why should I believe the Republicans have ANY motivation to offer any sort of substantial health care reform?

-HH

Are you trying to sound stupid? How can you say that there is no difference between health care and health insurance? That's like saying that there is no difference between having a good mechanic and having car insurance. They are related, but they are completely different things.

Kayne West's mother had great insurance coverage, but she received terrible care and died as a result of complications following a routine surgery. If she had received better care, she would still be alive regardless of her insurance.

As far as avoiding it like the plague goes, I guess you forgot about the massive prescription drug bill passed under the previous administration. I guess you don't see Mitt Romney advocating the health plan he implemented in Mass.

Baby Lee
08-22-2009, 04:06 PM
Again, that did nothing to provide additional prescription drug benefts. The previous Medicare system already provided a prescription benefit that did not leave anyone lacking. The only thing Bush's change did was allow the corporatatization of Medicare. And that was really all he intended to do.

Now the cost to the taxpayer has been ballooned and the system has become much less efficient all for the sake of corporate welfare. Hell, the crap has gotten so complicated that seniors have to undergo counseling just to sort through all the fine print included in the claims of those who are now profiting from Medicare as unnecessary middlemen.

You lie and lie and lie again, all because someone you don't like did something that you would otherwise applaud.

Fact - the new Medicare prescription drug benefit has some of the highest satisfaction figures for it's recipients of all the programs out there.

Fact - it came in just this month substantially below projections for the duration of the program to date, something rarer than a sane penchief post.

Lie some more and I'll continue to correct you.

I swear to God, Bush could save a toddler from an oncoming freight train, and you'd be grumbling about how the kid is probably the entitled offspring of some Haliburton muckety-muck.

Fish
08-22-2009, 06:29 PM
Well, I've already seen on this board where people say "Who says it is broken"? When one points out some of the aspects, they try to separate non separable issues ("There's a difference between 'health care' and 'health insurance'"). So, exactly when did the Republicans "notice" reform was needed? They had eight years to enact the kind of form they would have liked to have seen yet avoided it like the plague. Now, even after most Americans say it is one of the most important issues of our nation, they just criticize, they use scare tactics, they don't offer a viable alternative. Why should I believe the Republicans have ANY motivation to offer any sort of substantial health care reform?

-HH

I don't get that either. I've noticed many Republicans staunchly saying "Don't take over my healthcare. How dare you tell me what healthcare I need." And totally glossing over the fact that current healthcare really sucks for the majority and costs have gone through the roof. Why are Republicans defending the horrible health care system now, when it's been getting worse and worse for the last decade? It seems most would rather argue about it than search for alternatives...

I don't like the current proposal at all, but I see no need to defend the current flaming turd that is our existing health care system. Offer up a better idea or shut up and let someone else try.

BucEyedPea
08-22-2009, 06:48 PM
I'm a moderate, so I believe that on most issues, both republicans and democrats are wrong. The answer, in my opinion, is usually somewhere in the middle.

The Republicans' role is to provide some opposition to the liberal agenda. And we're damn lucky they did. Or else we would have made the same mistakes we made after 9/11, when the Bush administration had pretty much free reign to enact all their policies without political opposition.

I'm not a moderate but I especially agree with your second paragraph.

VAChief
08-22-2009, 06:57 PM
There is plenty of blame on both parties for the lack of coverage, the skyrocketing costs, and the outright discrimination against those who have been covered have to change jobs but find that they can't get coverage (even if they were covered before) by their next plan.

Our health care is still one of the finest systems in regard to cutting edge science, the problem is in preventative care and access. The free market works in most instances because the competition usually creates better products. Greed, profit, whatever label you want to give it is not necessarily a bad thing in business. In this case I don't see how you can trust that the best interests of the public can be served when the most likely thing to do is cut your worst losses and only cater to those that can give you the most profit.

It would be nice if we could get away from the name calling and start creating some solutions that look at all the factors that created this clusterphuck. It didn't happen overnitght and most likely isn't going to be fixed overnight either, but some long term thinking with some immediate changes that get us headed that way would be nice. Not all republicans are fear mongering "death panel" nuts and we need their voices and opinions to be heard.

***SPRAYER
08-22-2009, 07:00 PM
Do you think other countries don't have poor ethnic populations?

Why don't you move into their neighborhood?

KILLER_CLOWN
08-22-2009, 10:21 PM
As long as the big corporations, big pharma and corrupt governmental agencies are in control neither party will have an answer therefore until that changes gridlock IS the answer.