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View Full Version : Chiefs It really looks like Thigpen might not make the team


Mr. Krab
08-21-2009, 08:55 PM
Cassel,Croyle and Gutierrez are all the traditional Quarterbacks that Haley seems to like. Unless Croyle gets injured (or traded for Marshall :D ) i think Thigpen is the odd man out.

Quarterback and Cornerback might be our best positions on this team.

the Talking Can
08-21-2009, 09:07 PM
i hope so

HemiEd
08-21-2009, 09:07 PM
I wonder if Denver would trade Marshall for Thiggy and a 5th?

DeezNutz
08-21-2009, 09:08 PM
I wonder if Denver would trade Marshall for Thigpen and a 5th?

ROFL

Mecca
08-21-2009, 09:08 PM
I highly doubt anyone is going to trade anything for Thigpen, he can't run a normal offense and that is what a backup is suppose to be able to do.

googlegoogle
08-21-2009, 09:10 PM
Thought he was banging Holly Star. Guess he wont anymore.

LaChapelle
08-21-2009, 09:12 PM
You do know he was hand picked by Herm? 'nuff said

Count Zarth
08-21-2009, 09:14 PM
Vindication.

chiefs1111
08-21-2009, 09:14 PM
As soon as Herm was shown the door,Thigpen was doomed

LaChapelle
08-21-2009, 09:15 PM
If Croyle goes down, Thigpen could still be gone.

Mecca
08-21-2009, 09:15 PM
Who are the people that wanted him to start?

ArrowheadMagic
08-21-2009, 09:16 PM
Vindication.

For? What does WIPE Illustrated know that we didnt know last year?

Mecca
08-21-2009, 09:17 PM
For? What does WIPE Illustrated know that we didnt know last year?

LOL last year there were alot of people on here who thought he was our QB and we didn't need to get one.

BigMeatballDave
08-21-2009, 09:18 PM
Shocking

DeezNutz
08-21-2009, 09:19 PM
Who are the people that wanted him to start?

www.wpi.com

chiefs1111
08-21-2009, 09:19 PM
Maybe a UFL team will pick him up

dirk digler
08-21-2009, 09:19 PM
Damn I am heartbroken. I guess I will have to go kick my dog now

Mr. Krab
08-21-2009, 09:21 PM
I highly doubt anyone is going to trade anything for Thigpen, he can't run a normal offense and that is what a backup is suppose to be able to do.
Still just keeping it real, i see.

CosmicPal
08-21-2009, 09:21 PM
Kudos to Croyle for taking that shot to the chin and shaking it off like it was nothing. For someone who gets hit a lot, and injured a lot, he seems like he's still pretty courageous for standing in there. That's the stuff you want to see in a QB, particularly in a QB that gets clobbered all the time.

Mecca
08-21-2009, 09:22 PM
Still just keeping it real, i see.

Uh Tyler Thigpen is a bum, do you somehow want me to say he's good or something?

DeezNutz
08-21-2009, 09:24 PM
Kudos to Croyle for taking that shot to the chin and shaking it off like it was nothing. For someone who gets hit a lot, and injured a lot, he seems like he's still pretty courageous for standing in there. That's the stuff you want to see in a QB, particularly in a QB that gets clobbered all the time.

I will give Croyle credit for pulling himself off the carpet after that hit.

I'll say on thing: Croyle is fragile as fuck, but he isn't a pussy.

ArrowheadMagic
08-21-2009, 09:26 PM
LOL last year there were alot of people on here who thought he was our QB and we didn't need to get one.


Probably the same people that buy subscriptions to WIPE Illustrated...

dirk digler
08-21-2009, 09:27 PM
I will give Croyle credit for pulling himself off the carpet after that hit.

I'll say on thing: Croyle is fragile as fuck, but he isn't a pussy.

Yep. Is it me or does Croyle look more stout this year?

ArrowheadMagic
08-21-2009, 09:28 PM
I will give Croyle credit for pulling himself off the carpet after that hit.

I'll say on thing: Croyle is fragile as ****, but he isn't a pussy.


He is a walking torn labia.

DeezNutz
08-21-2009, 09:31 PM
Yep. Is it me or does Croyle look more stout this year?

Hmm. I can't really see that much of a difference, if any. His body just won't allow him to put on the necessary muscle mass.

Honestly, he should try to hook up with the best pharmacy he can afford.

dirk digler
08-21-2009, 09:32 PM
Hmm. I can't really see that much of a difference, if any. His body just won't allow him to put on the necessary muscle mass.

Honestly, he should try to hook up with the best pharmacy he can afford.

I thought his lower body looked bigger and not that part :D

LaChapelle
08-21-2009, 09:33 PM
He is a walking torn labia.

there is a 50/50 chance everytime he walks on the field. He'll need surgery and months of rehab. What a pussy/sarcasm

CosmicPal
08-21-2009, 09:33 PM
I thought his lower body looked bigger and not that part :D

What the hell you doing looking at his legs? Queer. :D

Thig Lyfe
08-21-2009, 09:35 PM
THEY'LL LIVE TO REGRET IT!!!!!!!!!

Mr. Krab
08-21-2009, 09:37 PM
Uh Tyler Thigpen is a bum, do you somehow want me to say he's good or something?
He's a better QB than you are a poster.

Every cloud has a shit lining, right?

dirk digler
08-21-2009, 09:39 PM
What the hell you doing looking at his legs? Queer. :D

I couldn't help it. There must be something there to keep Kelly happy :)

Buehler445
08-21-2009, 10:26 PM
Maybe we can trade him to San Fran for a 6th.
Posted via Mobile Device

chiefzilla1501
08-21-2009, 10:31 PM
Cassel,Croyle and Gutierrez are all the traditional Quarterbacks that Haley seems to like. Unless Croyle gets injured (or traded for Marshall :D ) i think Thigpen is the odd man out.

Quarterback and Cornerback might be our best positions on this team.

How do you really know what Haley really likes based on his experience with one veteran QB? If anything, Thigpen plays in more of the style of Cassel.

I'll never understand why people are so intent on hating Thigpen. The point of a backup is to be able to fill in when the starter goes down. What's the point of keeping a guy like Croyle on your roster when he can't even stay healthy for 2 games?

OnTheWarpath58
08-21-2009, 10:33 PM
How do you really know what Haley really likes based on his experience with one veteran QB? If anything, Thigpen plays in more of the style of Cassel.

I'll never understand why people are so intent on hating Thigpen. The point of a backup is to be able to fill in when the starter goes down. What's the point of keeping a guy like Croyle on your roster when he can't even stay healthy for 2 games?

About the same as keeping a guy you have to change your entire offense for to make him serviceable?

Reerun_KC
08-21-2009, 10:35 PM
He's a better QB than you are a poster.

Every cloud has a shit lining, right?

:doh!:

Wow, reaching arent we?

UsualSuspects
08-21-2009, 10:40 PM
Vindication.

So how did LJ and Brown perform tonight?

:evil:

Buehler445
08-21-2009, 10:42 PM
So how did LJ and Brown perform tonight?

:evil:

I was screaming at the TV because I THOUGHT Pollard made a pussy arm tackle....... But it was 48 instead of 49. Mah bad.
Posted via Mobile Device

chiefzilla1501
08-21-2009, 10:45 PM
About the same as keeping a guy you have to change your entire offense for to make him serviceable?

The point of keeping a young backup is to keep that guy on the bench and see if he develops into a potential long-term option. Especially true when you're not 100% sure what you'll get out of your relatively unknown, Matt Cassel. I think it's ridiculous for people to suggest that Thigpen is completely incapable of learning a pro-style offense, if given some time to develop on the bench. Especially if you finally surround him with a QBs coach who knows what he's doing.

And it's false to say you have to completely change your whole offense to get Thigpen reps. Haley and Cassel are both very familiar with shotgun sets, and I guarantee we run a lot of similar sets as we did last year.

Thigpen is more durable. He has more upside than Croyle. And you can also incorporate him in some innovative wildcat sets, if you choose to. He should clearly win a spot over Croyle. I don't know enough about Guitierrez to say about him.

OnTheWarpath58
08-21-2009, 10:49 PM
The point of keeping a young backup is to keep that guy on the bench and see if he develops into a potential long-term option. Especially true when you're not 100% sure what you'll get out of your relatively unknown, Matt Cassel. I think it's ridiculous for people to suggest that Thigpen is completely incapable of learning a pro-style offense, if given some time to develop on the bench. Especially if you finally surround him with a QBs coach who knows what he's doing.

And it's false to say you have to completely change your whole offense to get Thigpen reps. Haley and Cassel are both very familiar with shotgun sets, and I guarantee we run a lot of similar sets as we did last year.

Thigpen is more durable. He has more upside than Croyle. And you can also incorporate him in some innovative wildcat sets, if you choose to. He should clearly win a spot over Croyle. I don't know enough about Guitierrez to say about him.

I guess that makes Haley/Pioli idiots? Because they aren't keeping 4 QB's. Hell, they may not keep 3 from what I'm hearing.

And it's laughable that you think Thigpen has more upside than Croyle.

Croyle has 1st round talent, and dropped to the 3rd based on injury concerns.

Thigpen is a 7th round POS who has to learn a system that Croyle already knows and can operate well in.

But please, keep fluffing our 4th string QB.

chiefzilla1501
08-21-2009, 10:54 PM
I guess that makes Haley/Pioli idiots? Because they aren't keeping 4 QB's. Hell, they may not keep 3 from what I'm hearing.

And it's laughable that you think Thigpen has more upside than Croyle.

Croyle has 1st round talent, and dropped to the 3rd based on injury concerns.

Thigpen is a 7th round POS who has to learn a system that Croyle already knows and can operate well in.

But please, keep fluffing our 4th string QB.

I am a big fan of Croyle's ability. But a guy who can't play more than a quarter of the season will never have upside. It's a shame, because I like Croyle. But keeping a guy that fragile is just plain stupid.

If it's between Croyle and Thigpen, I will take the guy who can stay healthy any day of the week. Again, don't know how Guitierrez's prospects are looking.

Mr. Arrowhead
08-21-2009, 10:55 PM
Brodie is fine now, because Herm is not his coach

Reerun_KC
08-21-2009, 10:58 PM
Brodie is fine now, because Herm is not his coach

No way Thigpen ever sees the field with a NFL coaching staff, he wouldnt even of made the team last year...

Herms ability to judge talent is overblown.. Thigpen is not NFL talent...

chiefzilla1501
08-21-2009, 11:03 PM
No way Thigpen ever sees the field with a NFL coaching staff, he wouldnt even of made the team last year...

Herms ability to judge talent is overblown.. Thigpen is not NFL talent...

Give me a fucking break. He's NFL talent.

I'm glad that it's such a huge deal that Thigpen played primarily out of the shotgun to compensate for a poor offensive line, but it doesn't seem to matter that the Patriots did the same exact thing to help Cassel out too.

If Thigpen is cut, I guarantee he'll be signed within a few days and it will be with a team where he has a decent shot of competing for a starting job.

keg in kc
08-21-2009, 11:03 PM
I will give Croyle credit for pulling himself off the carpet after that hit.

I'll say on thing: Croyle is fragile as ****, but he isn't a pussy.I don't think he's fragile so much as he's (been) extremely unlucky. Kind of like he's football's Murphy's Law. If a guy can get twisted and land funny or get hit at a weird angle that wouldn't happen 99.999% of the time, he's somehow always in that 0.001%.

UsualSuspects
08-21-2009, 11:03 PM
Thigpen was fun to watch and almost made last season watchable but why keep him when "pro" style projects are already on the team. Props to Thiggy for last year but that is history so far this year and in the NFL. IMO

OnTheWarpath58
08-21-2009, 11:04 PM
Give me a fucking break. He's NFL talent.

I'm glad that it's such a huge deal that Thigpen played primarily out of the shotgun to compensate for a poor offensive line, but it doesn't seem to matter that the Patriots did the same exact thing to help Cassel out too.

If Thigpen is cut, I guarantee he'll be signed within a few days and it will be with a team where he has a decent shot of competing for a starting job.

ROFL

OnTheWarpath58
08-21-2009, 11:04 PM
I don't think he's fragile so much as he's (been) extremely unlucky. Kind of like he's football's Murphy's Law. If a guy can get twisted and land funny or get hit at a weird angle that wouldn't happen 99.999% of the time, he's somehow always in that 0.001%.

This.

Reerun_KC
08-21-2009, 11:07 PM
Give me a ****ing break. He's NFL talent.

I'm glad that it's such a huge deal that Thigpen played primarily out of the shotgun to compensate for a poor offensive line, but it doesn't seem to matter that the Patriots did the same exact thing to help Cassel out too.

If Thigpen is cut, I guarantee he'll be signed within a few days and it will be with a team where he has a decent shot of competing for a starting job.


ROFL

Dear God! This guy is priceless...

Do you actually believe what you write? Starting Job? ROFL

Dude your delusional... Seriously, your true fandom has no self respect...

chiefzilla1501
08-21-2009, 11:07 PM
ROFL

"Competing." I think he's highly regarded and will be picked up by a team low on QB options. In which case, he'd be competing for a starting job. I think he needs a few years on the bench to develop. But I'm just responding to the ridiculous idea that he's not NFL-level talent.

Reerun_KC
08-21-2009, 11:07 PM
ROFL

Agree

ROFL

DeezNutz
08-21-2009, 11:09 PM
I don't think he's fragile so much as he's (been) extremely unlucky. Kind of like he's football's Murphy's Law. If a guy can get twisted and land funny or get hit at a weird angle that wouldn't happen 99.999% of the time, he's somehow always in that 0.001%.

This might be the case. It's possible.

But the far easier and more likely answer is that his body is as equipped to handle the NFL as yours or mine.

Make no mistake, this doesn't make him a pussy. Far from it. He's not stupid, so he fully understands that he's at a great risk every time he steps on the field.

But it does make him just a guy, not an NFL player, no matter what his right arm might say.

pr_capone
08-21-2009, 11:09 PM
Vindication.

Not until Devard Darling is our #2 by choice and not by injury.

Reerun_KC
08-21-2009, 11:09 PM
"Competing." I think he's highly regarded and will be picked up by a team low on QB options. In which case, he'd be competing for a starting job. I think he needs a few years on the bench to develop. But I'm just responding to the ridiculous idea that he's not NFL-level talent.

Hes not, He cant even throw the simple out pattern...

shit last year he couldnt hit the broad side of a barn...

Has zero accuracy.....


Dude will be lucky to be in the league in 2 more years... and if he is, he will be burried at the 3 spot or practce squad...

OnTheWarpath58
08-21-2009, 11:10 PM
"Competing." I think he's highly regarded and will be picked up by a team low on QB options. In which case, he'd be competing for a starting job. I think he needs a few years on the bench to develop. But I'm just responding to the ridiculous idea that he's not NFL-level talent.

If he were NFL-level talent, his future this roster wouldn't be in jeopardy.

If he was everything you say he is, he'd be our #2, not about to get cut.

If he can't beat out Brodie Croyle and Gutierrez, you think he's going to compete for a starting job elsewhere?

You're either mentally challenged, or your related to him.

DeezNutz
08-21-2009, 11:11 PM
"Competing." I think he's highly regarded and will be picked up by a team low on QB options. In which case, he'd be competing for a starting job. I think he needs a few years on the bench to develop. But I'm just responding to the ridiculous idea that he's not NFL-level talent.

Outside of some KC fans, his family, and his friends, oh and a few FF players, Thigpen is not a highly regarded NFL anything. Least of all a QB.

But the skeleton he ****ed, however, thinks he's pretty cool.

chiefzilla1501
08-21-2009, 11:13 PM
Outside of some KC fans, his family, and his friends, oh and a few FF players, Thigpen is not a highly regarded NFL anything. Least of all a QB.

But the skeleton he ****ed, however, thinks he's pretty good.

Bullshit. Listen to national sports radio. He is extremely highly regarded and I guarantee he will be picked up almost instantly if he's cut.

Mr. Arrowhead
08-21-2009, 11:13 PM
Thigpen sucks ass, he does not belong on this football team

DeezNutz
08-21-2009, 11:15 PM
Bullshit. Listen to national sports radio. He is extremely highly regarded and I guarantee he will be picked up almost instantly if he's cut.

Are you talking about scouts? Team executives? Or dumbshit talking heads that don't know their assholes from their elbows?

I'm guessing I know which category.

Many of these same douches thought KC should enter the season with Thigpen as "the guy," and not even bother addressing the position through FA, trades, or the draft.

DBOSHO
08-21-2009, 11:15 PM
why does everyone knock tyler? people forget that if it wasnt for him, wed be 1 and 15 and be laughed at even more than we have been. the guy kept us in games and if not for the defense we woulve won around 8 games. 8 wins for basicallly a rookie qb especially being put in the situation he was in is very admirable imo

Reerun_KC
08-21-2009, 11:15 PM
Bullshit. Listen to national sports radio. He is extremely highly regarded and I guarantee he will be picked up almost instantly if he's cut.

Says the person that fully supported Herm...

ROFL

OnTheWarpath58
08-21-2009, 11:15 PM
Bullshit. Listen to national sports radio. He is extremely highly regarded and I guarantee he will be picked up almost instantly if he's cut.

He'll probably get picked up. No debate there.

But competing for a starting spot?

No way.

JuicesFlowing
08-21-2009, 11:15 PM
Bullshit. Listen to national sports radio. He is extremely highly regarded and I guarantee he will be picked up almost instantly if he's cut.

They don't even know where KC is, least of all who Thigpen is.

Buehler445
08-21-2009, 11:16 PM
"Competing." I think he's highly regarded and will be picked up by a team low on QB options. In which case, he'd be competing for a starting job. I think he needs a few years on the bench to develop. But I'm just responding to the ridiculous idea that he's not NFL-level talent.

The only one I can think of is San Fran. Where the fuck else is he going to go to compete?

T-post Tom
08-21-2009, 11:16 PM
not uncommon to have a qb on the ps.

Reerun_KC
08-21-2009, 11:16 PM
why does everyone knock tyler? people forget that if it wasnt for him, wed be 1 and 15 and be laughed at even more than we have been. the guy kept us in games and if not for the defense we woulve won around 8 games. 8 wins for basicallly a rookie qb especially being put in the situation he was in is very admirable imo

yet his second half preformances in almost all of his games were shit last year...

How did he help us win games? His play dropped off every game by the qtr....

OnTheWarpath58
08-21-2009, 11:17 PM
The only one I can think of is San Fran. Where the fuck else is he going to go to compete?

Not there either.

He couldn't beat out Alex Smith or Shaun Hill, FFS.

DeezNutz
08-21-2009, 11:17 PM
I always pick up shit when I see it in my yard.

Reerun_KC
08-21-2009, 11:18 PM
The only one I can think of is San Fran. Where the **** else is he going to go to compete?

Please Hermzilla....

List us some teams where he is going to go from 3 string/cut to competeing or starting in the NFL...

Please do...

Also SF has Alex Smith/Shaun Hill, even though he struggles, they are 9 times more NFL talent than Thigpen is...

BigMeatballDave
08-21-2009, 11:20 PM
Tony Gonzales likes him...

Reerun_KC
08-21-2009, 11:21 PM
Tony Gonzales likes him...

so did Herm.. What does that tell you?

DBOSHO
08-21-2009, 11:23 PM
yet his second half preformances in almost all of his games were shit last year...

How did he help us win games? His play dropped off every game by the qtr....
conservative 2nd half playcalling by herm. all im saying is the guy isnt the greatest qb but he isnt BY ANY MEANS a bad qb so cut him some slack. if it wasnt for him, we wouldve been the detroit lions.

chiefzilla1501
08-21-2009, 11:24 PM
He'll probably get picked up. No debate there.

But competing for a starting spot?

No way.

That was a bit of an exaggeration on my part. I don't know why I said that. But there are lots of places he could land where the starting job is anything but set. Tennessee, Jacksonville, Washington, Oakland. I could even see Pittsburgh making a run at him, if Big Ben's injury is serious... and yes, I think he could start for the Steelers by midseason. Or for teams like St. Louis or Seattle, where their veteran QB situation is a bit iffy.

The claim that is being made that Thigpen is not NFL calibre is beyond ridiculous. As I've said many times, he needs time on the bench to develop and I have no idea if he'll develop into a starter (he definitely has a long way to go). But there are a LOT worse backups out there.

OnTheWarpath58
08-21-2009, 11:24 PM
conservative 2nd half playcalling by herm. all im saying is the guy isnt the greatest qb but he isnt BY ANY MEANS a bad qb so cut him some slack. if it wasnt for him, we wouldve been the detroit lions.

Conservative?

Look at LJ's 2nd half numbers and tell me we went conservative.

There were games LJ had fewer than 5 carries in the 2nd half.

chiefzilla1501
08-21-2009, 11:26 PM
yet his second half preformances in almost all of his games were shit last year...

How did he help us win games? His play dropped off every game by the qtr....

You know and I know that the playcalling in the second half was horrible. Part of that was due to the Chiefs playing with a limited playbook, since they ran an offense that was created in midseason. Part of that was horrible gameplanning. And another part of that was completely abandoning the run game in the 2nd half.

Like I said, he needs work. But to act like his poor 2nd half performances were all his fault is ridiculous.

DBOSHO
08-21-2009, 11:26 PM
Conservative?

Look at LJ's 2nd half numbers and tell me we went conservative.

There were games LJ had fewer than 5 carries in the 2nd half.

lack of adjustment to the gameplan when the d switched theirs up

OnTheWarpath58
08-21-2009, 11:27 PM
That was a bit of an exaggeration on my part. I don't know why I said that. But there are lots of places he could land where the starting job is anything but set. Tennessee, Jacksonville, Washington, Oakland. I could even see Pittsburgh making a run at him, if Big Ben's injury is serious... and yes, I think he could start for the Steelers by midseason. Or for teams like St. Louis or Seattle, where their veteran QB situation is a bit iffy.

The claim that is being made that Thigpen is not NFL calibre is beyond ridiculous. As I've said many times, he needs time on the bench to develop and I have no idea if he'll develop into a starter (he definitely has a long way to go). But there are a LOT worse backups out there.

Holy Jesus.

You think he could beat out Kerry Collins, David Garrard, Jason Campbell, (or Todd Collins) or Russell/Garcia? He wouldn't beat out Kyle Boller or Seneca Wallace as a #2 either.

You're fucking insane.

chiefzilla1501
08-21-2009, 11:28 PM
Conservative?

Look at LJ's 2nd half numbers and tell me we went conservative.

There were games LJ had fewer than 5 carries in the 2nd half.

While true, when we had leads going into the second half, our playcalling moved away from the trickery we used in the first halves of those games and toward quick 1-yard hitch routes. Conservative? No. Predictable? Definitely.

DBOSHO
08-21-2009, 11:29 PM
You know and I know that the playcalling in the second half was horrible. Part of that was due to the Chiefs playing with a limited playbook, since they ran an offense that was created in midseason. Part of that was horrible gameplanning. And another part of that was completely abandoning the run game in the 2nd half.

Like I said, he needs work. But to act like his poor 2nd half performances were all his fault is ridiculous.

he didnt singlehandedly win all our games without a defense as a 3rd string rook so hes a failure and needs to play in the ufl.

chiefzilla1501
08-21-2009, 11:31 PM
Holy Jesus.

You think he could beat out Kerry Collins, David Garrard, Jason Campbell, (or Todd Collins) or Russell/Garcia? He wouldn't beat out Kyle Boller or Seneca Wallace as a #2 either.

You're ****ing insane.

I just told you that the claim that he could compete to start was a mistake on my part. I don't know why I said it, but it was stupid. I admit that.

But yes, where the QB situation is not very good. Garrard, Campbell, and Russell are under a ton of pressure to perform after lousy 2008 seasons. And Collins and Garcia are at the back-end of their careers. So yes, I think Thigpen will most definitely get a look for any of those teams.

chiefzilla1501
08-21-2009, 11:33 PM
he didnt singlehandedly win all our games without a defense as a 3rd string rook so hes a failure and needs to play in the ufl.

I will never understand Chiefs' fans weird obsession with saying players are either superstars or they're complete garbage. Or that think that you can write off an entire career based on one season of play.

I'm not even saying Thigpen is a great player. I'm just saying he might have upside to be a good player. I just can't comprehend how people can actually suggest he doesn't belong on ANY nfl roster.

DBOSHO
08-21-2009, 11:41 PM
I will never understand Chiefs' fans weird obsession with saying players are either superstars or they're complete garbage. Or that think that you can write off an entire career based on one season of play.

I'm not even saying Thigpen is a great player. I'm just saying he might have upside to be a good player. I just can't comprehend how people can actually suggest he doesn't belong on ANY nfl roster.

it literally blows my mind how people think this guy is garbage. i guarantee you that if cassel puts up the same exact numbers and plays out of the spread alot(looks like its headed that way judging from our oline play) but we manage to win a few more games cause our defense isnt completely abysmal like last year that there would be NO complaints. people just wanna hate for the sake of hating

KCDC
08-21-2009, 11:42 PM
Agree with Chiefzilla. Seems like everyone loves to jump on a player that is not lighting it up. National sports writers and many people on CP questioned Pioli's acquisition of Cassel because Thigpen had almost as impressive of stats (minus the wins) and was a shotgun style QB. Certain people on these boards just called Cassel an expensive Thigpen and not a real upgrade.

Now that Cassel is playing well and Brodie has remained injury free for 1 hour of game time, everyone is calling for Thigpen's head? Before the draft, we could have gotten a decent draft pick for him I think. Now you want to flush a guy with some pretty good NFL numbers, and who could be the leading rusher on the team (after looking at our RB performance tonight) for nothing.

He's better than a lot of #2 QBs in this league. Might be a starter in SF. More exciting than Jason Campbell in DC. So, he isn't good enough to be our #1, and a healthy Croyle might beat him out for #2 temporarily; but, he is far from garbage.

chiefzilla1501
08-21-2009, 11:45 PM
it literally blows my mind how people think this guy is garbage. i guarantee you that if cassel puts up the same exact numbers and plays out of the spread alot(looks like its headed that way judging from our oline play) but we manage to win a few more games cause our defense isnt completely abysmal like last year that there would be NO complaints. people just wanna hate for the sake of hating

Agreed. If we had even an average defense in 2008, Thigpen would have come out with a decent record for a first year starter.

I'm glad that the road ended up leading to getting Cassel and Pioli. But this is just getting ridiculous.

DBOSHO
08-21-2009, 11:49 PM
Agreed. If we had even an average defense in 2008, Thigpen would have come out with a decent record for a first year starter.

I'm glad that the road ended up leading to getting Cassel and Pioli. But this is just getting ridiculous.

i was a bit sad that we got cassel initially but i like what im seeing. when talking about thigpen, people conveniently forget that theres 3 sides to a football team

chiefzilla1501
08-21-2009, 11:54 PM
i was a bit sad that we got cassel initially but i like what im seeing. when talking about thigpen, people conveniently forget that theres 3 sides to a football team

The problem is that Thigpen was working with a gimmick offense in 2008. He's got a really long way to go and he deserves time on the bench to develop and get some real QB coaching. I don't think he can do the same things in 2009 as he did in 2008, simply because defenses would have schemed the spread.

Thigpen is anything but proven. And there's a good chance he'll never pan out. He's got a lot to prove. I just think he's shown enough to believe he's got potential.

cdcox
08-21-2009, 11:58 PM
I'm not a Thigpen guy, but Gutierrez has really bad mechanics. I think your #3 should be a developmental prospect, and I don't think either of these two fit that mold. They are scrappers with bad mechanics that aren't starting material. I'm really meh on both guys.

DBOSHO
08-22-2009, 12:00 AM
I'm not a Thigpen guy, but Gutierrez has really bad mechanics. I think your #3 should be a developmental prospect, and I don't think either of these two fit that mold. They are scrappers with bad mechanics that aren't starting material. I'm really meh on both guys.

im going with thigpen. he has starting experience and hes proven he can move the ball

chiefzilla1501
08-22-2009, 12:02 AM
I'm not a Thigpen guy, but Gutierrez has really bad mechanics. I think your #3 should be a developmental prospect, and I don't think either of these two fit that mold. They are scrappers with bad mechanics that aren't starting material. I'm really meh on both guys.

I haven't seen much of Gutierrez, but I wondered about that myself. I always thought that he was easily the guy that had the most to prove.

DBOSHO
08-22-2009, 12:04 AM
he didnt look like he had alot of arm strength but he made some good throws. - The fade on4th and 1

cdcox
08-22-2009, 12:07 AM
im going with thigpen. he has starting experience and hes proven he can move the ball

Look, none of that matters for a #3 on a team coming off a 2-14 season. If that team is down to their #3, they are officially F'd. For our team, you want someone who has a 1 in 100 chance of developing into something special. That is our ideal #3. Neither Thigpen or Gut are it.

Count Zarth
08-22-2009, 12:08 AM
Right now I'd keep Thigpen simply because he can run around and maybe pull a play out of his ass when the shit hits the fan.

I sure as shit wouldn't trade Croyle, though.

DBOSHO
08-22-2009, 12:11 AM
Look, none of that matters for a #3 on a team coming off a 2-14 season. If that team is down to their #3, they are officially F'd. For our team, you want someone who has a 1 in 100 chance of developing into something special. That is our ideal #3. Neither Thigpen or Gut are it.

both of them have a 0 out of 100 chance of being special? id say cassel had a worse chance than either of them. btw why would you want that?

chiefzilla1501
08-22-2009, 12:12 AM
Look, none of that matters for a #3 on a team coming off a 2-14 season. If that team is down to their #3, they are officially F'd. For our team, you want someone who has a 1 in 100 chance of developing into something special. That is our ideal #3. Neither Thigpen or Gut are it.

That's where I beg to differ. Thigpen at least flashed the potential that he could develop into something special. But he also flashed some things that suggest he never will. Unlike Gutierrez, Thigpen hasn't had access to a real QBs coach. And he at least shows he has the moxie to play the position and the work ethic to try to get better. His problem is purely mechanical--those things can be fixed with a lot of repetition. I read an article about some of the stuff that Mike Martz does and it's simply astounding. If he can be coached out of some of those mechanical problems, he most definitely has upside.

I'm not saying Thigpen will be good or bad. But I think it's worth seeing if he can develop with time.

DBOSHO
08-22-2009, 12:13 AM
Right now I'd keep Thigpen simply because he can run around and maybe pull a play out of his ass when the shit hits the fan.

I sure as shit wouldn't trade Croyle, though.

unless we can get marshall for him :evil:

the Talking Can
08-22-2009, 04:31 AM
Outside of some KC fans, his family, and his friends, oh and a few FF players, Thigpen is not a highly regarded NFL anything. Least of all a QB.

But the skeleton he ****ed, however, thinks he's pretty cool.

ROFL


seriously, the guy couldn't hit a barn if it was dropped on him....Cassel is an nfl QB, Thigpen is a wind up toy version of Cassel sold at the gift shop in Arrowhead...

the Talking Can
08-22-2009, 04:33 AM
Bullshit. Listen to national sports radio. He is extremely highly regarded and I guarantee he will be picked up almost instantly if he's cut.

no one in the country cares about the chiefs 3rd string QB...i listen to radio all day at work, from all over the country, and no one has ever mentioned thigpen....ever


and Damon Huard got picked up when we cut him....

the Talking Can
08-22-2009, 04:35 AM
That was a bit of an exaggeration on my part. I don't know why I said that. But there are lots of places he could land where the starting job is anything but set. Tennessee, Jacksonville, Washington, Oakland. I could even see Pittsburgh making a run at him, if Big Ben's injury is serious... and yes, I think he could start for the Steelers by midseason. Or for teams like St. Louis or Seattle, where their veteran QB situation is a bit iffy.

.


wtf???

Von Dumbass
08-22-2009, 05:29 AM
I am being dead serious.... Matt Cassel looks exactly like Tyler Thigpen last year. Last year Tyler would line up in Shotgun and check if his first read was open, and if it wasn't he would run. That was exactly what Cassel did last night.

Count Zarth
08-22-2009, 05:30 AM
I am being dead serious.... Matt Cassel looks exactly like Tyler Thigpen last year. Last year Tyler would line up in Shotgun and check if his first read was open, and if it wasn't he would run. That was exactly what Cassel did last night.

You have no fucking clue. Watch the game again. Watch Cassel move his head and look at different receivers. He doesn't look like a quarterback going through one read. Not even close.

Besides, even if he WAS doing that, he was effective because he was accurate. Thigpen...is not.

Von Dumbass
08-22-2009, 05:35 AM
You have no ****ing clue. Watch the game again. Watch Cassel move his head and look at different receivers. He doesn't look like a quarterback going through one read. Not even close.

Besides, even if he WAS doing that, he was effective because he was accurate. Thigpen...is not.

All QB's are accurate within 10 yards, and I didn't see Cassel complete a pass deeper than ten yards. Thigpen could have made those same plays.

JD10367
08-22-2009, 05:40 AM
1. Cassel
2. Croyle
3. Thigpen

Gutes to PS.

Count Zarth
08-22-2009, 05:45 AM
I didn't see Cassel complete a pass deeper than ten yards.

You didn't watch the game, then.

JD10367
08-22-2009, 05:46 AM
All QB's are accurate within 10 yards, and I didn't see Cassel complete a pass deeper than ten yards. Thigpen could have made those same plays.

I drawed you a pikcthuh.

LaChapelle
08-22-2009, 05:51 AM
On the plus side for Thigpen, he could play another postion in a pinch. Croyle not so much. Croyle can play the opposing team's QB in practice. Thigpen doesn't offer much there, and that's part of being a #2 or #3.

Von Dumbass
08-22-2009, 06:03 AM
You didn't watch the game, then.

I did watch it.... Tell me which pass he completed where the ball traveled more than 10 yards in the air?

13:35) 7-M.Cassel pass short left to 45-J.O'Connell to MIN 47 for 12 yards (26-A.Winfield).

(8:36) 7-M.Cassel pass incomplete deep middle to 82-D.Bowe.

(9:53) (Shotgun) 7-M.Cassel pass short right to 81-D.Darling to MIN 38 for 11 yards (26-A.Winfield).

(8:29) (Shotgun) 7-M.Cassel pass short right to 82-D.Bowe to MIN 23 for 13 yards (20-M.Williams). Play Challenged by MIN and Upheld. (Timeout #1.)

(7:24) (Shotgun) 7-M.Cassel pass short middle to 89-S.Ryan to MIN 14 for 9 yards (22-B.Sapp, 52-C.Greenway).

(4:56) (Shotgun) 7-M.Cassel pass incomplete short middle to 10-T.Copper (96-B.Robison).

(4:53) (Shotgun) 7-M.Cassel pass incomplete short right to 81-D.Darling.

(Shotgun) 7-M.Cassel pass short right to 25-J.Charles pushed ob at KC 48 for 20 yards (20-M.Williams).

(15:00) 7-M.Cassel pass short middle to 81-D.Darling to KC 39 for 5 yards

(13:32) 7-M.Cassel pass short right to 82-D.Bowe pushed ob at MIN 23 for 20 yards (39-H.Abdullah).

(11:05) 7-M.Cassel pass to 82-D.Bowe for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
6-R.Succop extra point is GOOD, Center-43-T.Gafford, Holder-2-D.Colquitt.

2:00) (Shotgun) 7-M.Cassel pass short left to 29-D.Savage to KC 42 for 5 yards (50-Er.Henderson).

(1:14) (Shotgun) 7-M.Cassel pass incomplete to 84-B.Engram (92-J.Mitchell).

2-10-KC 44 (1:10) (Shotgun) 7-M.Cassel pass incomplete short middle to 10-T.Copper.

3-10-KC 44 (1:06) (Shotgun) 7-M.Cassel scrambles up the middle to KC 46 for 2 yards (30-A.Allen).
Timeout #2 by MIN at 00:56.

Count Zarth
08-22-2009, 06:07 AM
I did watch it.... Tell me which pass he completed where the ball traveled more than 10 yards in the air?

These ones:


(9:53) (Shotgun) 7-M.Cassel pass short right to 81-D.Darling to MIN 38 for 11 yards (26-A.Winfield).

(8:29) (Shotgun) 7-M.Cassel pass short right to 82-D.Bowe to MIN 23 for 13 yards (20-M.Williams). Play Challenged by MIN and Upheld. (Timeout #1.)

(13:32) 7-M.Cassel pass short right to 82-D.Bowe pushed ob at MIN 23 for 20 yards (39-H.Abdullah).

And one of those incompletions was a perfectly placed downfield throw. Bowe stopped his route.

Von Dumbass
08-22-2009, 06:11 AM
These ones:


(9:53) (Shotgun) 7-M.Cassel pass short right to 81-D.Darling to MIN 38 for 11 yards (26-A.Winfield).

(8:29) (Shotgun) 7-M.Cassel pass short right to 82-D.Bowe to MIN 23 for 13 yards (20-M.Williams). Play Challenged by MIN and Upheld. (Timeout #1.)

(13:32) 7-M.Cassel pass short right to 82-D.Bowe pushed ob at MIN 23 for 20 yards (39-H.Abdullah).

And one of those incompletions was a perfectly placed downfield throw. Bowe stopped his route.
I will need a gif's from you to back this up. Two of those passes are pretty close to 10 yards anyways... Did none of the receivers get YAC?

Count Zarth
08-22-2009, 06:15 AM
I will need a gif's from you to back this up.

Fuck you.

Yes there was YAC. The ball still traveled more than 10 yards in the air. Especially on the first one. It was a throw to the sideline from the hash marks. That is definitely longer than 10 yards.

Scorp
08-22-2009, 06:21 AM
1. Cassel
2. Croyle
3. Thigpen

Gutes to PS.

1. Cassel
2/3 Croyle/Guitierez(sp?)

Thigpen=gonner Thank god.

Von Dumbass
08-22-2009, 06:27 AM
**** you.

Yes there was YAC. The ball still traveled more than 10 yards in the air. Especially on the first one. It was a throw to the sideline from the hash marks. That is definitely longer than 10 yards.
I still think he looks like Tyler Thigpen. You guys will still be running a similar offense to what Thigpen ran last year, because Cassel isn't good under center.

Count Zarth
08-22-2009, 06:33 AM
I still think he looks like Tyler Thigpen.

Let's see:

1. He's taller
2. He's smarter
3. He's more accurate
4. He has better mechanics

He looks nothing like Thigpen.

keg in kc
08-22-2009, 06:44 AM
Where's my 'don't feed the trolls' hotkey?

Von Dumbass
08-22-2009, 06:46 AM
Let's see:

1. He's taller
2. He's smarter
3. He's more accurate
4. He has better mechanics

He looks nothing like Thigpen.
They have the exact same style of play.

The only thing different about them is Cassel is four inches taller, and Cassel had the luxury of working with a QB guru.

Count Zarth
08-22-2009, 06:46 AM
They have the exact same style of play.
.

Um, no.

No.

Cassel is like a fucking robot out there.

Thigpen is a chicken with his head cut off. If he could throw it from under his scrotum he would.

the Talking Can
08-22-2009, 06:58 AM
I am being dead serious.... Matt Cassel looks exactly like Tyler Thigpen last year. Last year Tyler would line up in Shotgun and check if his first read was open, and if it wasn't he would run. That was exactly what Cassel did last night.

it is impossible for someone to be as fucking stupid as you are


please god find a way to kill yourself


what did we ever do to deserve having a clueless fuktard like you posting here?

I blame mile high. You're nice to one donko fan and look what happens.

the Talking Can
08-22-2009, 06:59 AM
I still think he looks like Tyler Thigpen. You guys will still be running a similar offense to what Thigpen ran last year, because Cassel isn't good under center.

please make the stupid go away


you don't know anything about what we did last year or what we're doing this year....you don't have the first damn clue

Scorp
08-22-2009, 07:03 AM
Tyler Thigpen for President! Haha stupid sure drank the Herm Koo-aid. ROFL

Extra Point
08-22-2009, 07:30 AM
I wonder if Denver would trade Marshall for Thigpen and a 5th?

Of the cheapest whiskey at the liquor store.

Chief Faithful
08-22-2009, 07:38 AM
I still think he looks like Tyler Thigpen. You guys will still be running a similar offense to what Thigpen ran last year, because Cassel isn't good under center.

Wow!:eek:

It is not even remotely close.

Chief Faithful
08-22-2009, 07:45 AM
Cassel,Croyle and Gutierrez are all the traditional Quarterbacks that Haley seems to like. Unless Croyle gets injured (or traded for Marshall :D ) i think Thigpen is the odd man out.

Quarterback and Cornerback might be our best positions on this team.

I have been thinking all week if Gutierrez can show he can manage the game, make good decisions, show the ability to move around in the pocket and make the basic accurate throws then Thigpen will get bumped off the roster. Gutierrez looked the part last night.

BigMeatballDave
08-22-2009, 08:59 AM
They have the exact same style of play.

The only thing different about them is Cassel is four inches taller, and Cassel had the luxury of working with a QB guru.LMAO You're a fucking R-tard! Learn a little something about football before posting about it. Dumbass...

chiefzilla1501
08-22-2009, 09:00 AM
1. Cassel
2/3 Croyle/Guitierez(sp?)

Thigpen=gonner Thank god.

Why thank god? Why the fuck are people so against this kid that they want to see the guy on the streets?

And what has Guitierrez ever done that makes people think he's a lock for a roster spot? Besides getting cut by the Patriots in exchange for Andrew Walter?

BigMeatballDave
08-22-2009, 09:01 AM
I have been thinking all week if Gutierrez can show he can manage the game, make good decisions, show the ability to move around in the pocket and make the basic accurate throws then Thigpen will get bumped off the roster. Gutierrez looked the part last night. Based on what I saw from Gutierrez last nite, Thigpen would be gone today.

BigMeatballDave
08-22-2009, 09:02 AM
Why thank god? Why the fuck are people so against this kid that they want to see the guy on the streets?

Umm, because he is not a good QB?

Deberg_1990
08-22-2009, 09:03 AM
I still think he looks like Tyler Thigpen. You guys will still be running a similar offense to what Thigpen ran last year, because Cassel isn't good under center.

Cassel is better than Thigpen, but in some ways i can see where you might think this.

Cassel has yet to throw deep. According to JWhit, he cant throw deep and our O-line cant hold blocks anyways. I have no idea because i didnt watch many NE games last year.

chiefzilla1501
08-22-2009, 09:06 AM
Based on what I saw from Gutierrez last nite, Thigpen would be gone today.

Against a fourth string defense, you had better look good. Gutierrez by far has the most to prove to earn a roster spot.

chiefzilla1501
08-22-2009, 09:08 AM
:eek:Umm, because he is not a good QB?

He is better than A LOT of backups in the NFL. If people can get over this weird hatred for the guy, they'd be able to see that.

Buehler445
08-22-2009, 09:08 AM
I am being dead serious.... Matt Cassel looks exactly like Tyler Thigpen last year. Last year Tyler would line up in Shotgun and check if his first read was open, and if it wasn't he would run. That was exactly what Cassel did last night.

You have no fucking clue. Watch the game again. Watch Cassel move his head and look at different receivers. He doesn't look like a quarterback going through one read. Not even close.

Besides, even if he WAS doing that, he was effective because he was accurate. Thigpen...is not.

While I agree with you 1billion%, it's best not to feed the animals.

chiefzilla1501
08-22-2009, 09:09 AM
Cassel is better than Thigpen, but in some ways i can see where you might think this.

Cassel has yet to throw deep. According to JWhit, he cant throw deep and out O-line cant hold blocks anyways. I have no idea because i didnt watch many NE games last year.

I never understood the obsession with throwing deep. Brees and Manning throw a very average deep ball. Brady threw a lousy deep ball his first 2 or 3 seasons in the NFL.

What these guys do, though, is they can throw a strike from 20 yards away every time. That's a hell of a lot more important than the ability to throw a deep ball on a rope.

Scorp
08-22-2009, 09:32 AM
Why thank god? Why the **** are people so against this kid that they want to see the guy on the streets?



You want reasons? Okay.

1. He only got on the field because our Starting Quarterback got injured. (Brokie)

2. Our backup Quarterback was a pussy. (Horrid)

3. Herm Edwards was Kansas City's Coach. (I hope you die in a fire Herm!)

4. Thigpen doesn't go through his receiver reads. If number one isn't available he panics and usually takes off running. (Oh shit I suck, I better run!)

5. Only reason he had limited success running a stupid offense (wildcat) was because Tony Gonzalez was his main target all season. (I miss October Gonzalez!)

wild1
08-22-2009, 09:38 AM
I think I'd rather keep Gutierrez. I want a QB who is a passer and not this chicken-with-head-off type.

I don't wish Thigpen ill, I hope he catches on somewhere. I just don't believe there is any warrant to keeping him on the roster.

JD10367
08-22-2009, 09:45 AM
I never understood the obsession with throwing deep. Brees and Manning throw a very average deep ball. Brady threw a lousy deep ball his first 2 or 3 seasons in the NFL.

What these guys do, though, is they can throw a strike from 20 yards away every time. That's a hell of a lot more important than the ability to throw a deep ball on a rope.

Ayup.

Cassel isn't Brady or Manning. That's clear. But he looked pretty good last season, all things considered (where he'd come from, and what the Pats asked him to step into). He has two areas of weakness IMO: 1) sometimes not enough pocket awareness and takes a sack; and 2) deep-ball accuracy.

Now, it's hard to judge the second one because some of last season's long-bomb miscues can definitely be attributed to Randy "When I Want To" Moss. And as for the sacks, some of that can also be attributed to the Pats' O-line, which has a maddening habit of alternating their blocking technique (one play it's "wall of concrete", next play it's "wall of Cool Whip").

But, as pointed out, as last season went on, Cassel started to show a Brady-like ability to be accurate short- to medium- and to look off his first option and to stand in there and deliver the ball in the face of an impending hit. IMO those are much more important than having a cannon-arm. Jeff George had one of those, I recall.

Actually, Randy Moss might be a detriment to the deep-ball development of a QB like Cassel because, frankly, people tend to think "just heave it deep and Randy will go get it". Consequently, Cassel OVERTHREW Moss a few times. Again, some of that can be attributed to Moss pulling up on the route.

Tiger's Fan
08-22-2009, 09:49 AM
I never understood the obsession with throwing deep. Brees and Manning throw a very average deep ball. Brady threw a lousy deep ball his first 2 or 3 seasons in the NFL.

What these guys do, though, is they can throw a strike from 20 yards away every time. That's a hell of a lot more important than the ability to throw a deep ball on a rope.

Re-read your own fucking post, and you have your answer as to why Thigpen is a shitty QB.

After doing so, go grab that brain dead donkey fan by the hand, and the two of you go skipping along into a fucking aids tree!

PS: take your hero Herm with you.

LaChapelle
08-22-2009, 09:58 AM
I wonder what a QB like Thigpen does for offensive discipline. The biggest part of their game is running around try to make something of nothing. Running routes have no point. You just run in circles trying to get open. Holding the pocket is only temporary at best. It chews up some clock I guess.

Marcellus
08-22-2009, 10:03 AM
I really couldn't care less who the 3rd sting QB is I don't understand how anybody else cares. If that ends up being an important position this year then we are totally screwed anyhow.

boogblaster
08-22-2009, 10:08 AM
Thigpen does have NFL experince ... That should earn him a roster spot ...

JD10367
08-22-2009, 10:13 AM
I really couldn't care less who the 3rd sting QB is I don't understand how anybody else cares. If that ends up being an important position this year then we are totally screwed anyhow.

Probably. I mean, the Chiefs have obviously made more changes than simply Cassel, and even with Thigpen at the helm they'd probably up that win total from last season. But, yeah, if Cassel and Croyle both go down, you're probably screwed anyhow.

Still, though, you want the best #3 you can find. And Thigpen is familiar with the offense, and has led it before, and has already played on the NFL stage. I don't feel like perusing every team's player list but I'd doubt many of them have a #3 who has started a few games in the league. And, again, it's not like Thigpen will net you anything in a trade; what, a 5th-rounder maybe, at best? It's just not worth it to dump him vs. keeping him.

chiefzilla1501
08-22-2009, 11:05 AM
You want reasons? Okay.

1. He only got on the field because our Starting Quarterback got injured. (Brokie)

2. Our backup Quarterback was a pussy. (Horrid)
I don't understand why the circumstances behind a QB starting have anything to do with it. Tom Brady only got on the field because Bledsoe got injured. Does that mean he didn't deserve a shot?

3. Herm Edwards was Kansas City's Coach. (I hope you die in a fire Herm!)

Again. Irrelevant. And besides, Thigpen's success last year was largely due to Gailey, not Herm.

4. Thigpen doesn't go through his receiver reads. If number one isn't available he panics and usually takes off running. (Oh shit I suck, I better run!)

I don't understand this comment. Aren't there multiple threads on this forum right now that say in a "no duh" way that the Chiefs' offensive line is horrendous? Did you look at the count of how many plays we ran out of the shotgun yesterday? I can think of a handful of plays where Thigpen actually had time to sit in the pocket and go through his reads.

Our offensive line was horrendous last year. It got two players killed. Thigpen ran out of necessity, not out of stupidity. YOU CAN'T GO THROUGH READS WHEN THE PASS RUSH IS SWARMING YOU THE MINUTE THE BALL IS SNAPPED. And again, going through reads and progressions is something you develop over time.

5. Only reason he had limited success running a stupid offense (wildcat) was because Tony Gonzalez was his main target all season. (I miss October Gonzalez!)[/quote]
The Chiefs did NOT run a wildcat offense last season. And I'm sorry, but if Gonzalez was the only reason the Chiefs had any success with Thigpen, then can you explain why the offense was horrendous the prior year with Huard and Croyle? The reason the Chiefs saw any kind of success on offense was that Thigpen was a critical piece to what was largely a gimmick offense. I have not denied that Thigpen needs to expand his horizons, but to pretend that he wasn't a critical piece to any kind of offensive success last year is beyond ridiculous.

chiefzilla1501
08-22-2009, 11:06 AM
Re-read your own ****ing post, and you have your answer as to why Thigpen is a shitty QB.

After doing so, go grab that brain dead donkey fan by the hand, and the two of you go skipping along into a ****ing aids tree!

PS: take your hero Herm with you.

Seriously, go see a therapist.

I don't know how the fuck anyone can say something like that and not have some serious problems.

KCCHIEFS27
08-22-2009, 11:09 AM
Get rid of Brodie..keep Gutierrez and Thigpen

Just Passin' By
08-22-2009, 11:10 AM
Probably. I mean, the Chiefs have obviously made more changes than simply Cassel, and even with Thigpen at the helm they'd probably up that win total from last season. But, yeah, if Cassel and Croyle both go down, you're probably screwed anyhow.

Still, though, you want the best #3 you can find. And Thigpen is familiar with the offense, and has led it before, and has already played on the NFL stage. I don't feel like perusing every team's player list but I'd doubt many of them have a #3 who has started a few games in the league. And, again, it's not like Thigpen will net you anything in a trade; what, a 5th-rounder maybe, at best? It's just not worth it to dump him vs. keeping him.

My guess is that, if Pioli could get a 5th for Thigpen, last season's story would already be playing for another team.

chiefzilla1501
08-22-2009, 11:19 AM
I really couldn't care less who the 3rd sting QB is I don't understand how anybody else cares. If that ends up being an important position this year then we are totally screwed anyhow.

Well, the reason I think it matters is that the Chiefs are in a different situation than a lot of teams are in. Most teams look for a backup who can fill in the spot when their starter goes down. The Chiefs don't know 100% what they've got with Cassel, which is why they have four young QBs on the roster and no proven veteran backups, like a Frerotte or a Leftwich.

When you're in a rebuild like the Chiefs, you need to go with a guy who you think has more upside, even if the ability now isn't starter material. I just don't see Gutierrez having any kind of upside. I think he's a career third-stringer at best. It's even more important because I don't how much I trust the offensive line to keep Cassel healthy. And if Croyle is your backup, there's a very, very good chance the #3 QB comes into play. When that #3 QB comes into play, I want somebody in there that's worth developing. Even if that only means giving that QB quality reps so that he can up his trade value.

ChiefaRoo
08-22-2009, 11:23 AM
Well, the reason I think it matters is that the Chiefs are in a different situation than a lot of teams are in. Most teams look for a backup who can fill in the spot when their starter goes down. The Chiefs don't know 100% what they've got with Cassel, which is why they have four young QBs on the roster and no proven veteran backups, like a Frerotte or a Leftwich.

When you're in a rebuild like the Chiefs, you need to go with a guy who you think has more upside, even if the ability now isn't starter material. I just don't see Gutierrez having any kind of upside. I think he's a career third-stringer at best. It's even more important because I don't how much I trust the offensive line to keep Cassel healthy. And if Croyle is your backup, there's a very, very good chance the #3 QB comes into play. When that #3 QB comes into play, I want somebody in there that's worth developing. Even if that only means giving that QB quality reps so that he can up his trade value.

Thigpen is a gimmick QB. If he plays he has to run that Chan Gailey rinky dink and run game that won't allow KC to kill the clock and in the end they lose. Just as important he is not accurate with his deep balls. He just can't do it.

kstater
08-22-2009, 11:35 AM
This thread makes baby Jesus cry.

chiefzilla1501
08-22-2009, 11:36 AM
Thigpen is a gimmick QB. If he plays he has to run that Chan Gailey rinky dink and run game that won't allow KC to kill the clock and in the end they lose. Just as important he is not accurate with his deep balls. He just can't do it.

This is where we differ. I agree with you on both parts. But I disagree on the idea that he can't do it. First, you have to factor in that the shotgun spread was run out of necessity. For all the criticism Thigpen gets for not playing under center, I don't understand why nobody is criticizing Cassel despite playing primarily out of the shotgun last night. Right now, I don't think Haley or Gailey trust ANY quarterback to play under center right now, and that is largely due to how shoddy the offensive line is. So the idea that he can't play under center is blown way out of proportion. We don't know if he can because he's never had an offensive line good enough to have players under center.

As for the second parts, again, deep ball skills are something you can develop over time. Eli Manning and Tom Brady hired coaches to tutor them on mechanics. It's a philosophy Mike Martz believes strongly in. Thigpen definitely has a lot of capability to improve if he improves his mechanics. Again, I don't know if Thigpen will ever develop into anything. But I think he's got enough of the physical intangibles and enough between the ears to have the upside to be decent. And I'd rather give a shot to a guy like him, than to a guy like Gutierrez, who hasn't really flashed much of anything.

Von Dumbass
08-22-2009, 11:44 AM
This is where we differ. I agree with you on both parts. But I disagree on the idea that he can't do it. First, you have to factor in that the shotgun spread was run out of necessity. For all the criticism Thigpen gets for not playing under center, I don't understand why nobody is criticizing Cassel despite playing primarily out of the shotgun last night.

:clap:
This.

I am one of the few here who thought Thigpen actually kept KC competitive last season. And Matt Cassel's style of play is not much different than Thigpen. I think Cassel is better than Thigpen, but it is kind of crazy how few Chief fans acknowledge how often Cassel has been in Shotgun.

ChiefaRoo
08-22-2009, 12:19 PM
This is where we differ. I agree with you on both parts. But I disagree on the idea that he can't do it. First, you have to factor in that the shotgun spread was run out of necessity. For all the criticism Thigpen gets for not playing under center, I don't understand why nobody is criticizing Cassel despite playing primarily out of the shotgun last night. Right now, I don't think Haley or Gailey trust ANY quarterback to play under center right now, and that is largely due to how shoddy the offensive line is. So the idea that he can't play under center is blown way out of proportion. We don't know if he can because he's never had an offensive line good enough to have players under center.

As for the second parts, again, deep ball skills are something you can develop over time. Eli Manning and Tom Brady hired coaches to tutor them on mechanics. It's a philosophy Mike Martz believes strongly in. Thigpen definitely has a lot of capability to improve if he improves his mechanics. Again, I don't know if Thigpen will ever develop into anything. But I think he's got enough of the physical intangibles and enough between the ears to have the upside to be decent. And I'd rather give a shot to a guy like him, than to a guy like Gutierrez, who hasn't really flashed much of anything.

Ok, keep him over Gut. Thiggy can run the option if Cassel and Croyle go down.

Marcellus
08-22-2009, 12:25 PM
Damn, after reading all this, I have to say Whitlock was right, we do have a QB controversy. 3rd string QB controversy.LOL.

Lots of conversation about a player position we hope never needs to take the field.

chiefzilla1501
08-22-2009, 12:25 PM
Ok, keep him over Gut. Thigpen can run the option if Cassel and Croyle go down.

A bit of an exaggeration. The Chiefs' offense last year, while it resembled a college spread look, was not a pure spread offense. And not a whole lot different from the kind of shotgun, 3-4 WR sets the Pats ran a lot of last year. The offense won't have to change a whole lot if Thigpen is forced to play.

But the hope is that Thigpen won't have to play and during the season, you teach him to become a little better under center. In the meantime, if you keep Thigpen on the roster, I think you'll see him play a few snaps a game as a wildcat option... just as a wrinkle. I just see a lot more potential in him than in Gutierrez. And while I like Croyle a LOT more as a QB, he just cannot be trusted to stay healthy. It's amazing to me how many people are all of a sudden all over his jock over the last few weeks.

Marcellus
08-22-2009, 12:27 PM
:clap:
This.

I am one of the few here who thought Thigpen actually kept KC competitive last season. And Matt Cassel's style of play is not much different than Thigpen. I think Cassel is better than Thigpen, but it is kind of crazy how few Chief fans acknowledge how often Cassel has been in Shotgun.

While as I stated earlier, I don't care who our #3 is, I had fun for a while watching Thigpen play last year, but even if Cassel is similar in style to T2 he is a much much better version of that style. He showed it last night, scrambling and throwing accurately on the run.

kcfanXIII
08-22-2009, 12:34 PM
aside from learning a pro offense, thigpen will need to improve two areas of his game to become a legit starting qb. accuracy, and throwing power. especially without HOF TE tony g. you can not play qb in this league if every time you chuck the ball up in the air, it arches like a rainbow, and has the velocity somewhere between turtle and snail. thats how passes are picked off in the nfl.

ChiefaRoo
08-22-2009, 12:35 PM
A bit of an exaggeration. The Chiefs' offense last year, while it resembled a college spread look, was not a pure spread offense. And not a whole lot different from the kind of shotgun, 3-4 WR sets the Pats ran a lot of last year. The offense won't have to change a whole lot if Thigpen is forced to play.

But the hope is that Thigpen won't have to play and during the season, you teach him to become a little better under center. In the meantime, if you keep Thigpen on the roster, I think you'll see him play a few snaps a game as a wildcat option... just as a wrinkle. I just see a lot more potential in him than in Gutierrez. And while I like Croyle a LOT more as a QB, he just cannot be trusted to stay healthy. It's amazing to me how many people are all of a sudden all over his jock over the last few weeks.

Ok.

Chief Faithful
08-22-2009, 01:36 PM
:clap:
This.

I am one of the few here who thought Thigpen actually kept KC competitive last season. And Matt Cassel's style of play is not much different than Thigpen. I think Cassel is better than Thigpen, but it is kind of crazy how few Chief fans acknowledge how often Cassel has been in Shotgun.

Even when they lined up in the shotgun, which was much less frequent than last year, it was not the same spread or plays. With Thigpen they ran and passed from the shotgun. Why? Because Thigpen couldn't hit the side of a barn from under center so the offense was very one-dimensional. With Cassel most plays were under center and he passed from under center. If they lined up in the shotgun it was a long distance down. Most of us could see that differences.

Just to give you another example, did you ever see a TE or FB in the slot? Last year Gonzo lined up in the slot most downs. There were many differences and they were all good.

JASONSAUTO
08-22-2009, 01:39 PM
Even when they lined up in the shotgun, which was much less frequent than last year, it was not the same spread or plays. With Thigpen they ran and passed from the shotgun. Why? Because Thigpen couldn't hit the side of a barn from under center so the offense was very one-dimensional. With Cassel most plays were under center and he passed from under center. If they lined up in the shotgun it was a long distance down. Most of us could see that differences.

Just to give you another example, did you ever see a TE or FB in the slot? Last year Gonzo lined up in the slot most downs. There were many differences and they were all good.

yep we were under center more last night. up until the TD it was more under center than shotgun

Sully
08-22-2009, 02:05 PM
This thread makes baby Jesus cry.

Are you tryin' to say Baby Jesus couldn't run the Wildcat?

Noss
08-22-2009, 02:15 PM
Cassel,Croyle and Gutierrez are all the traditional Quarterbacks that Haley seems to like. Unless Croyle gets injured (or traded for Marshall :D ) i think Thigpen is the odd man out.

Quarterback and Cornerback might be our best positions on this team.

Haley said when asked in camp about QB said he may only have two.

That could leave both Thigpen and Croyle the odd men out.

LaChapelle
08-22-2009, 02:20 PM
Is there an emergency QB already on the roster. I was thinking Bradley, but he's not Mr Health.

chiefzilla1501
08-22-2009, 02:32 PM
Even when they lined up in the shotgun, which was much less frequent than last year, it was not the same spread or plays. With Thigpen they ran and passed from the shotgun. Why? Because Thigpen couldn't hit the side of a barn from under center so the offense was very one-dimensional. With Cassel most plays were under center and he passed from under center. If they lined up in the shotgun it was a long distance down. Most of us could see that differences.

Just to give you another example, did you ever see a TE or FB in the slot? Last year Gonzo lined up in the slot most downs. There were many differences and they were all good.

I don't think that's entirely true. NOBODY could have played under center behind last year's offensive line. The reason Thigpen couldn't hit the side of a barn from under center was that there was a defender in his face literally the minute the ball was snapped.

It's no different than what happened to Cassel in NE. He struggled mightily the first few games because the NE offensive line was bruised and battered. Toward the end of the first half of the season, they moved him to mostly a shotgun offense. That was largely due to the fact that the Patriots wanted to give Cassel some more flexibility to escape danger in the pocket.

Cassel is much more equipped to run under center, I think. But I am willing to bet that a huge chunk of our snaps will be run in the shotgun. If the o-line can barely hold a block for Cassel in the preseason, what's going to happen when they start moving away from vanilla defense and start throwing some innovative blitz packages in there?

Von Dumbass
08-22-2009, 02:42 PM
Very good article breaking down Matt Cassel's strengths and weaknesses.
Early in the season the Patriots ran a conventional NFL offense, with Cassel primarily aligned under center. They used the shotgun only as an occasional changeup or, as many teams do, in long-yardage situations.

It became evident Cassel was not particularly comfortable dropping back from center. He often seemed rushed and hurried, with a tendency to quickly lose his reading definition. That's why he ran so frequently. He was not seeing the field with clarity, and his instincts compelled him to leave the pocket whether it was necessary or not.

I remember breaking down Cassel's third start, the Patriots' victory over the 49ers in early October. He was very mechanical and robotic in his progressions and reads. If he could determine his throw based on the pre-snap read, he made it. If he couldn't, and he had to process information as he dropped, he struggled. As a result, he did not show a lot of patience in the pocket, often moving directly into the pass rush. That's the main reason Cassel was sacked so often in the first half of the season.

In addition, Cassel wasn't demonstrating the willingness to pull the trigger on tighter throws at the intermediate and deeper levels. Those are the kinds of plays that work off five- and seven-step drops with the quarterback under center.

What the Patriots learned as the season progressed was that Cassel was far more comfortable and relaxed playing in the shotgun. Their overtime loss to the Jets in mid-November solidified that belief. The Patriots fell behind 24-6 in the second quarter, and from that point on, Cassel was exclusively in the shotgun.

That defeat was the first of six consecutive games in which 88 percent of Cassel's pass attempts came out of the shotgun. The shotgun spread, often with three wide receivers, stretched the field horizontally. And the ability of the Patriots' outstanding coaching staff to dictate with formations, shifts and motions allowed Cassel to get rid of the ball decisively. It was predominantly a short passing game, with the throw defined quickly and the ball coming out fast.

Cassel had more rhythm to his drop and set from the shotgun. He was poised and comfortable, and he saw the field with more clarity. This led to more patience in the pocket, with less of a willingness to take off and run prematurely.
There is more here.... http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2009-02-15/maximizing-matt-shotgun-triggered-cassels-second-half-surge

chiefzilla1501
08-22-2009, 02:44 PM
Very good article breaking down Matt Cassel's strengths and weaknesses.

There is more here.... http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2009-02-15/maximizing-matt-shotgun-triggered-cassels-second-half-surge

I think this article is a little overstated. It ignores the fact that the Pats' offensive line was in bad shape to begin the season, and undermines Brady's ability to make the offensive line better by making lightning quick reads.

But it does point to the fact that the Chiefs and Thigpen were not the only ones to resort to a shotgun offense to account for poor pass protection. The Steelers did the same thing to protect Roethlisberger--their offense became largely a shotgun offense under Bruce Arians.

Reerun_KC
08-22-2009, 02:45 PM
Bye Bye Piggypen...

It was fun knowing you...

JD10367
08-22-2009, 02:47 PM
Very good article breaking down Matt Cassel's strengths and weaknesses.

Which completely ignores the fact that he was just getting his feet wet after sitting on the pine for four years and then being called upon, ice-cold, to replace a Canton-bound QB and lead a team with Super Bowl aspirations.

"I remember breaking down Cassel's third start..." No sh*t, he looked bad. Even Patriots fans will admit that, as the season went on, he looked better and better. Again, one snap before Brady's injury, most of us wanted Cassel cut and long gone, and by the end of last season most of us would've been fine with the Pats franchising Cassel and--if Brady wasn't ready to go--starting this season with Cassel under center again.

Just in last night's game, Cassel looked about 4000% better than I've ever seen him look in a Patriots preseason game. He looked--again, for lack of a better term--Brady-esque on some of his throws.

That's okay, though. I know as a Broncos fan you have to do your best to denigrate your division rivals. Let's revisit this topic after the first Chiefs/Broncos game, and see who played better, Cassel or Orton...

Tribal Warfare
08-22-2009, 05:34 PM
Bye Bye Piggypen...

It was fun knowing you...

NOT!!!!!!!!!!!

the Talking Can
08-22-2009, 05:39 PM
:clap:
This.

I am one of the few here who thought Thigpen actually kept KC competitive last season. And Matt Cassel's style of play is not much different than Thigpen. I think Cassel is better than Thigpen, but it is kind of crazy how few Chief fans acknowledge how often Cassel has been in Shotgun.

do you think saying something stupid over and over makes it not stupid?

milkman
08-22-2009, 05:41 PM
do you think saying something stupid over and over makes it not stupid?

I think it just proves that stupid people don't know they're stupid.

kstater
08-22-2009, 05:47 PM
do you think saying something stupid over and over makes it not stupid?


But they both took snaps from the SHOTGUN. Therefore they're similar players.