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Over-Head
08-22-2009, 09:07 AM
If your a Jehovah's Witness, please don't take too much offence at the major hole I ripped into your theoligy this morning at my front door with one of your pioneers.
Better yet, here's a "spoiler warning" I'm what ou people so polietly consider "an apostate", so ya might not want to read this one.



Now that I started this thread off politically correct, enjoy!





Ok, so here I am, crying my hart out over the fact my mother's funeral is today, her ashes are being laid to rest tomorrow, and i'm a 1000 miles away.

Lo and behold who comes knocking on my door at 10am??
YOU GUESSED IT!
Some JoHo with her daughter in tow with all kinds of nifty info to cheer me up.

Not just any JoHo, but a CO's wife I remembered from an assembly back about 20 years ago, seems he's now dead
We talked nicely for a while, told them I was a former 3rd gen JoHo and only recently have even given God any major thoughts.then back to bible they go.

Sucked em both right in at this point, now they have "RETURN VISIT" on their minds, and what with a half hour fery ride to the island, a half back, boat waiting time (which during the day could be anywhere from 30mins to 3 hours), stopping to see me, this chick could make a hell of a dent in her hour quota each month just coming to the island once a week to see this poor lost lamb!

Why I didn't spit on them both for what that religion has done to myself and my family is beyond me, let alone stand on my door step and talk to them. (it's been the first time I ever did since I turned "apostate"
I insult them (very candidly) nope....presentation continues

Old bag see's I'm upset, and starts in how my life could be turned around with some literature
Daughter tells me how she was in my shoes once, but pioneering "saved her life"
I comment on how her daughter has a smoken body,( I'd put her eairly 30's) slides right over their heads.

Then comes the clincher.
I re-found this the other night, going through one of my "I hate these ****en JW's so bad I'll spend eternity proving them a cult" phases.
I stumbled on to this gem I read but lost about a year ago (very long read, but brought back the memories)

http://www.exjws.net/pioneers/partintro.htm

There's one part in interest I've been waiting to pound on a JoHo with and got my chance this morning.
When they learned about moms death they went with the "paradice on earth, no wars, death no more bla bla bla" and how when the time is right "Jehovah" will do something about it.

Through some clever maneuvering on my part I get them to bring up Luke 21 and Matt 24
(I guess they forgot about me being a JoHo for almost 30 years, as they went on and tried to get my to understand this one.

And at one point I said to the younger one, who was digging in her brief case "don't even think about reaching for your Incite to the scriptures book either! Site the King James or don't comment at all." The look was of pure horror!
I asked the EXACT same questins I had read, and got the same regurgitated responses

http://www.exjws.net/pioneers/partintro.htm
Part 3 of the story:
...."He then stated his concern regarding the year 1914 and the failure of the world to end as prophesied by JWs. Given this, my mouth started moving, and it resulted in something unexpected I then took the rope and hung myself. I explained the prophecy and how we interpret it to really mean that 1914 was the start of the last days and that all of the wars, famine, floods, earthquakes, food shortages, crime, etc. have been part of the sign of the last days as spoken in Matthew 24; then the end will come. I managed to say all this with a straight face, knowing what Ray Franz said about the actual predictions the Society (aka Charles Russell) said up to that year. How I managed to keep speaking the Party-Line knowing what I knew is still beyond me. I must have still felt that 1914 was significant somehow, and that the revisions to understanding it made some sense.
He didn't let me off the hook. Like a skilled swordsman, he cut to the heart and asked a critical question. 'How long before all of this happens, before the End comes?'I said that it will happen according to Jesus' words in Luke 21, within one generation. Then, though his words were ever so soft and gentile, he now pulled out the "Ax" and chopped me right down the middle ... 'How long is a generation?' Suddenly, my mind was spinning, realizing the significance of what he just said. For over two decades I had been able to answer virtually any Bible question. At the doors, I felt like a Bible giant. Now, it was as though my plane had stalled and I was in a nose dive with my engines on fire. I well knew the Scripture he had cited. I had wondered the same thing many years ago, but had allowed myself to put the point aside."



At this point the daughter looks at her mother eyes wide for advice, and mutters " ahh mom?"

Her mother tried the "light is getting brighter / we've had a new thought / the truth is ongoing" standard answers

I smiled and said, when you have THAT answer, come see me with someone who actually knows the theology their spewing out, and maybe we'll sit and discus it over a beer.

Not another word was said as they turned and walked away, I headded for my shed, but I did hear the daughter mutter as they walked away , "In 16years as a pioneer, I never thought i'd face an argument at a door I couldn't win"
Answered with "Shhhhh dear, we'll talk this one over in the car"

I might not be making it for mom's funeral today, nor her internment tomorrow, but at least I smiled for the first time since the woman died last Sunday!

Count Alex's Losses
08-22-2009, 09:11 AM
PWNED!

Jehovah's Witness FATALITY!

Count Alex's Losses
08-23-2009, 10:53 AM
This fucking infuriates me. That guy should have walked out his front door firing shots into the air.


The phone rings – It’s Elder A: “Brother Jay, the CO is visiting, and will be out on shepherding calls. We have selected you and your family to enjoy this special Privilege!” he continued, “The CO and I will be over Wednesday evening at 7:00PM to visit with you and your family.” What? I said that we had plans and could not accommodate the CO or Elder visit to our home. I declined respectfully, and asked that they allow another family the privilege.

“Brother Jay, this is a privilege from Jehovah’s Organization, and you need to reschedule your plans to enjoy this fine provision from the Faithful Slave.” ... “Thanks Elder A, but we do need to decline as it is too late to change plans. We can receive his visit next time.” ... “Brother Jay, you seem to not understand, this is important, and the decision has been made to visit your home. What plans did your family have that they could not change?” ... “Hold on a minute Elder A, and I will talk with the family.”


I walked into the kitchen and asked everyone if they wanted to share in the CO and Elder A visiting on Wednesday. There were no takers. They reminded me of our family plans, and I agreed. I got back on the phone with Elder A and told him that the family isn’t canceling the plans, and that he will just have to schedule another family. Elder A was not happy. I said that I am sorry, but that is the way it will have to be, and politely ended the discussion.

The phone rings again about 30 minutes later: “Brother Jay, Elder A here again. We have discussed the matter and I am advising you that you WILL have a Shepherding visit with your family by the CO and another Elder, likely the PO. There is something about the phrase, “You WILL” that sends chills up my spine. It was like shades of the days when my Dad was still in the Air Force and how he treated our family. It had a militaristic sound ... and given that I am capable of being a strong willed person myself, I responded by saying: “No, we WILL not be having any Shepherding visit Wednesday. It is NOT out of disrespect or lack of appreciation, but we simply have other plans, and WILL not be available. Therefore, you WILL inform the PO and CO and any other Elder NOT to be at our home Wednesday night, because they WILL be turned away if we are here.” ... There was silence. Then he said, “All right, have it your way and he hung up. At last, I took a firm stand, and I didn’t care that much what it might result in.

”Dad, there is a car coming up the driveway. It looks like the PO’s car. My head spun around in circles ... there were no words to describe the boiling rage ... Elder A had done it again ... forced this on me. “This is going to end, here and NOW” ... I said to myself. I got on my slipper shoes real fast, and walked out the front door before the PO could get all the way up my driveway. We lived on large property, and our driveway was about 1/10th of a mile long. So, this often gave us time to decide what to do. The family would stay inside while I duked it out in the driveway with the PO.

As I approached the car I could see the PO and CO inside. So they stopped, turned off the engine, and rolled down the window. I walked up to the PO and stated that I did not expect them. They said that Elder A told them that he had called and made arrangements with me. I told them that I had instructed Elder A on no uncertain terms that we would not participate in the visit. They asked why, and I said there are a number of reasons and issues, and some of them involve Elder A. They asked if I would at least sit in the car with them and talk it out. Okay, I agreed, and got in the car.

Over-Head
08-23-2009, 10:56 AM
This ****ing infuriates me. That guy should have walked out his front door firing shots into the air.
So whats your source for this one?
Link?

Reaper16
08-23-2009, 10:59 AM
You live on an island?

Count Alex's Losses
08-23-2009, 11:01 AM
So whats your source for this one?
Link?

You linked it.

Over-Head
08-23-2009, 11:12 AM
You linked it.
Ok, I have so many I cant remember tham all.
That would be around ch13 or so IIRC
Ya didn't post what page you did the quote from just wondered was all.
Read the entire 18 chapters yet?

Over-Head
08-23-2009, 11:12 AM
You live on an island?
Yes
www.bellisland.net

Count Alex's Losses
08-23-2009, 11:14 AM
Ok, I have so many I cant remember tham all.
That would be around ch13 or so IIRC
Ya didn't post what page you did the quote from just wondered was all.
Read the entire 18 chapters yet?

No...I will eventually.

Part of me reads this shit and it is so unbelievable to me. I have read a lot of this stuff where people leave the organization because they get to a point where something becomes extremely hypocritical to them and they just can't take it anymore.

I don't get it because, from my point of view, I fail to see how ANYONE could even LET themselves get to that point. I bailed WAY before it became too important to me that I actually gave a shit about even getting baptized.

Lucky me, I guess.

Reaper16
08-23-2009, 11:18 AM
Those JW bastards took Prince from us. They must suffer.

pr_capone
08-23-2009, 11:22 AM
No...I will eventually.

Part of me reads this shit and it is so unbelievable to me. I have read a lot of this stuff where people leave the organization because they get to a point where something becomes extremely hypocritical to them and they just can't take it anymore.

I don't get it because, from my point of view, I fail to see how ANYONE could even LET themselves get to that point. I bailed WAY before it became too important to me that I actually gave a shit about even getting baptized.

Lucky me, I guess.

Yeah... lucky you.

Count Alex's Losses
08-23-2009, 11:27 AM
Fuck off, Capone. Seriously. This is my fucking life we are talking about here.

pr_capone
08-23-2009, 11:37 AM
**** off, Capone. Seriously. This is my ****ing life we are talking about here.

A. I was being serious. You were damn lucky that you didn't give a ****.

You didn't have to experience having the only life you ever knew torn from you. You didn't have your parents tell you that they never wanted to see you again and you were not welcome in their home. You did not have a younger sibling that was almost like your own kid taken away from you.

Yeah Wendler.. lucky you.

B. It was my ****ing life too... except I actually got involved in the congregation. Baptized, Pioneered, Attendant.

Its not a dick measuring contest. I'm saying... you were ****ing lucky.

You don't have to go to church with your wife and have every last stitch of you wanting to leave the place screaming but you do it anyways because it means so much to her.

You don't have to deal with her family doing gathering around the Christmas tree every yeas and singing christmas carols to the point you just want to leave and find comfort at the bottom of a bottle. Birthdays don't freak you out.

I wish I was in your shoes. At least when it comes to this.

Count Alex's Losses
08-23-2009, 11:38 AM
A. I was being serious. You were damn lucky that you didn't give a fuck.


Oh. Sorry, dude. Thanks.

Consistent1
08-23-2009, 11:50 AM
Wendler my brother, start up your own deal to mislead people. It will take the pain away.

Over-Head
08-23-2009, 11:57 AM
**** off, Capone. Seriously. This is my ****ing life we are talking about here.
Listen dude, you have NO F'ing idea what Capone and I have and still go through.
Try this one on for size.
A month ago I go back home knowing full well if 2 elders see me I'm toast as far as my old man even being able to talk to me. Turning Catholic ("apostate") ain't something you live down real quick.

They did, he AGAIN asked me to leave his house (thats 3 times I've been told "it's better for you not to come back")
I was called a family insult by my mother via e-mail
My sis and brother both dispise me

Yesterday was my mom's funeral.
Not invited family doesnt want me there
Today she was to be burried (Hurrican Bill intrupted) again Not invited. Same reason

Your still bitter at what you think you shouldn't have gone through.
We got the t-shirts from the ****en adventure ride

Over-Head
08-23-2009, 11:59 AM
A. I was being serious. You were damn lucky that you didn't give a ****.

You didn't have to experience having the only life you ever knew torn from you. You didn't have your parents tell you that they never wanted to see you again and you were not welcome in their home. You did not have a younger sibling that was almost like your own kid taken away from you.

Yeah Wendler.. lucky you.

B. It was my ****ing life too... except I actually got involved in the congregation. Baptized, Pioneered, Attendant.

Its not a dick measuring contest. I'm saying... you were ****ing lucky.

You don't have to go to church with your wife and have every last stitch of you wanting to leave the place screaming but you do it anyways because it means so much to her.

You don't have to deal with her family doing gathering around the Christmas tree every yeas and singing christmas carols to the point you just want to leave and find comfort at the bottom of a bottle. Birthdays don't freak you out.

I wish I was in your shoes. At least when it comes to this.

I got cold chills reading my life lived out by someone else.
There's a few million folks who can say "Yep that was me!"
Raises hand, Yep, that was me!
and it would surprise you how many Planet members (who wish to remain namlessfor their own reasons) have pm'd me, cuz they too could raise their hand.

Count Alex's Losses
08-23-2009, 12:00 PM
Your still bitter at what you think you shouldn't have gone through.
We got the t-shirts from the fucken adventure ride

LMAO

I feel for you, dude. That sucks. I know I had it relatively easy.

Baconeater
08-23-2009, 12:01 PM
Listen dude, you have NO F'ing idea what Capone and I have and still go through.
Try this one on for size.
A month ago I go back home knowing full well if 2 elders see me I'm toast as far as my old man even being able to talk to me. They did, he AGAIN asked me to leave his house (thats 3 times I've been told "it's better for you not to come back"

Yesterday was my mom's funeral.
Not invited family doesnt want me there
Today she was to be burried (Hurrican Bill intrupted) again Not invited. Same reason

Your still bitter at what you think you shouldn't have gone through.
We got the t-shirts from the ****en adventure ride
You may not want to hear this, but I'd say that's your old man's fault, not the religion's.

Count Alex's Losses
08-23-2009, 12:02 PM
You may not want to hear this, but I'd say that's your old man's fault, not the religion's.

The religion has twisted his mind.

pr_capone
08-23-2009, 12:07 PM
You may not want to hear this, but I'd say that's your old man's fault, not the religion's.

If you knew anything about the "religion" you would not be saying that.

Over-Head
08-23-2009, 12:07 PM
You don't have to deal with her family doing gathering around the Christmas tree every yeas and singing christmas carols to the point you just want to leave and find comfort at the bottom of a bottle..

8 years and I still can't deal with x-mass. I just wish the ****ing world would stop that day.
I generally hibernate in my shed and have a half "Q" in my prior to jolly, jolly's

Birthdays don't freak you out.
Sorry dissagree there, they remind me of a set of parents who brought me up in a cult I tried for 31 years to escape.
It's taken 8 years but the wife's family, and even my employies don't recognize that there's a day in March not on my calander

Over-Head
08-23-2009, 12:09 PM
You may not want to hear this, but I'd say that's your old man's fault, not the religion's.
I agree
Unfortunatly he justifies it with flawed theological reasoning.

Over-Head
08-23-2009, 12:11 PM
If you knew anything about the "religion" you would not be saying that.
To a certian point, it is a valid argument.
It's just that you and I have lived something very few people could ever try to understand therough words typed, or actions viewed.
And we have the battle scares to show for it.
Sadly 99% of them are mental scars.

pr_capone
08-23-2009, 12:23 PM
You may not want to hear this, but I'd say that's your old man's fault, not the religion's.

If you knew anything about the "religion" you would not be saying that.

To a certian point, it is a valid argument.
It's just that you and I have lived something very few people could ever try to understand therough words typed, or actions viewed.
And we have the battle scares to show for it.
Sadly 99% of them are mental scars.

It is... but to dismiss the issue by just laying fault at the feet of the parent is not right either.

I understand why my mom did what she did. She was pressured into doing so by the elders of the congregation along with her wanting to follow the things she has been taught.

At the end of the day though, she still made that decision and its one she is still paying for today.

Over-Head
08-23-2009, 12:32 PM
It is... but to dismiss the issue by just laying fault at the feet of the parent is not right either..
And I also agree with that statement as well now being a father myself. It took me 9 years to do so mind you

Looking from the outside in as 99% of the people reading our posts on this do, it's hard for two individuals like you and I to make people realize there is 2 right answers, and it's one of them situations that just aint what it looks like.:banghead: