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View Full Version : Chiefs Individual performances - the good, bad and the horrible from game 2....


shammus
08-22-2009, 11:06 AM
Once again, as a casual observer, I thought I'd try to identify some players that stood out and players that blew it in my post below. There's a lot I noticed, both good and bad, and of course, Iím prone to missing things so bear with me on this one....

The Good

Offense
Cassel had a complete 180 turnaround from last week. His passes were crisp, on the money and he looked like he actually knew how to run an offense. The biggest thing I noticed was that he did all this while under duress. His Oline gave him very little protection and he was on the run the entire first half.
- Croyle and Gutierrez looked sharp as well. By then however, the second team o-line was in and doing a better job of protecting the QB. Gutierrez's drive at the end should have been a game winner but it was nice to see him perform like that in his first game.
- Engram, Toomer and Lelie all at least got into the game. I believe Toomer was the only one with a catch although Lelie had beaten his man on the pass interference call that set us up on the 1 yard line with the game on the line.

Defense
- Starting defense only gave up one scoring drive in the first half. Looked like they were strong against the run and getting good pressure on the QB. Adrian Peterson was a nonfactor. No sacks or INTs though.
- Last week, I commented on Corey Mays here. This week, I'll compliment the entire unit because I saw a lot of movement and a lot of playmaking out of this group. Mays was terrific again, just like last week. That hit he put on Favre was awesome. Who the heck is Jovan Belcher? He was all over the place last night just like Mays was, if not even more. Hali looked good too. I think the linebackers have some real nice depth to them....now if we can just find four starters out of this group, we'll be good.
- Seems like Page and Pollard are doing a decent job of helping out against the run. I saw Page making plays in the backfield a couple times at least.
- I thought the starting Dline got decent penetration. Tyson Jackson appeared to be playing in the Vikings backfield on a lot of his snaps. I saw Tank Tyler and Derek Lokey make some nice plays too. Don't remember Ron Edward's name being called ever though. Is he really going to get the nod at NT when the season starts? Didn't see too much from Alex Magee or Glenn Dorsey this week.

Special Teams
- Succop again was impressive. All his kickoffs made it into the endzone or got to it. He made a couple shorter fieldgoals....not a huge deal when they're under 40 yards, but remember, we haven't had a kicker who could make those consistantly for a while now.
- Colquitt was Colquitt....huge booming punts and nearly 5 seconds of hangtime. Very nice.


The Bad

Offense
- Quentin Lawrence had a nice end-around on the TD drive and a couple nice 3rd down catches. He also dropped several passes and I believe that was him that muffed the opening kickoff. Looking like a practice squad player at best right now.
- Charles fumbled; Battle fumbled twice on back to back possessions; other than LJs 18 yard run, he didn't do much. Between all four players, Savage included, there were a couple nice plays but overall, the Oline really let the running game down.
- LJ in particular looked slow and sluggish to me...anyone else see that?
- Sean Ryan with a couple more drops. Anyone else thinking Jake Oconnell might have the upperhand in this competition?

Defense
- Our secondary is back to allowing big plays again. Carr got beat by their tightend for a touchdown and McGraw and Morgan completely blew their coverage responsibility in allowing that 64 yd touchdown. McGraw simply should not be playing in the secondary at this point in his career and Morgan is looking like he might not even make the roster. Is it just me or did Mike Brown look confused some of the time?
- Whereas we got good pressure on their quarterbacks in the first quarter or so....that really tailed off as the game wore on and Tavaris Jackson had a lot of time back there which led to some big scoring plays.

Special Teams
no one in the return game stood out. I thought I saw Savage with a nice return towards the end of the game. I know I saw a couple drops in there too.

Ugh....You've got to be kidding me!!

- First team Oline - Wow...did anyone actually block their man here? Goff was awful. Richardson was awful. Niswanger got beat time and time again and even our All-pro-in-the-making Brandon Alberts whiffed on a couple plays one of which was a big sack for the second week in a row. At this rate, we NEED to keep all four quarterbacks because they won't last long with this sort of protection. The worst of this group appeared to be Goff and Richardson though. They were beaten early, often and consistantly. Uhhh I don't suppose there's any RG's or RTs sitting out there that we can sign just in case we'd like to take a break from bringing in receivers for a minute?

- Copper and Darling started for the second week in a row. Seriously? Apparently none of the other guys can break into the starting lineup with these two guys stalwarts standing in their way?

- 1st and goal from the one with the game on the line should have resulted in a win for us. I realize it's all 3rd and 4th string guys in there but still...how brutal was that to watch?



Thanks for making it this far guys. Any thoughts?

JASONSAUTO
08-22-2009, 11:08 AM
i thought it was DJ that got beat for the TD, and then morgan on the next one

milkman
08-22-2009, 11:12 AM
You need to do a better job of watching games.

Mr. Krab
08-22-2009, 11:13 AM
Minnesota is strong along the Dline so having our Oline struggle wasn't surprising. (yes allen and williams didn't play mecca 4321 )

our pass defense blew so many assignments GAH :shake:

milkman
08-22-2009, 11:13 AM
i thought it was DJ that got beat for the TD, and then morgan on the next one

It was.

cdcox
08-22-2009, 11:15 AM
- LJ in particular looked slow and sluggish to me...anyone else see that?


Yeah, going on 3 years now.

milkman
08-22-2009, 11:16 AM
Yeah, going on 3 years now.

But it's a new and fresh take by shammus.

pr_capone
08-22-2009, 11:19 AM
LJ stopped moving his legs the second he got hit. Other times he would pick up both feet off the ground and glide into a hit as opposed to putting his shoulder down and running through someone like he used to.

Fumbles aside... Charles, Battle, and Savage all run the ball like they want to starting job . LJ looks like he is just going though the motions. I am VERY underwhelmed by him right now.

the Talking Can
08-22-2009, 11:28 AM
btw shammus, i like your threads, welcome to the planet...

milkman
08-22-2009, 12:04 PM
Once again, as a casual observer, I thought I'd try to identify some players that stood out and players that blew it in my post below. There's a lot I noticed, both good and bad, and of course, I’m prone to missing things so bear with me on this one....

I'm going to go through this point by point.

The Good

Offense
Cassel had a complete 180 turnaround from last week. His passes were crisp, on the money and he looked like he actually knew how to run an offense. The biggest thing I noticed was that he did all this while under duress. His Oline gave him very little protection and he was on the run the entire first half.

First, I don't think there was a 180 degree turnaround.

He only threw 5 passes last week, one of which was batted down at the LOS, and the others were all crisp, on target passes.
His receivers let him down in that game.

Second, as I said in another thread, I rewatched the first half this morning, rewinding and replaying every snap, sometimes 7 or 8 times, and both Albert and Richardson actually played pretty well.

Richardson opened the hole on LJ's one good run, and was able to consistently stay between his man and Cassel, allowing Cassel to step up and make plays.

He needs to be nastier in run blocking, but overall his performace was somewhat better than credible.

- Croyle and Gutierrez looked sharp as well. By then however, the second team o-line was in and doing a better job of protecting the QB. Gutierrez's drive at the end should have been a game winner but it was nice to see him perform like that in his first game.

I can't disagree with this.

- Engram, Toomer and Lelie all at least got into the game. I believe Toomer was the only one with a catch although Lelie had beaten his man on the pass interference call that set us up on the 1 yard line with the game on the line.

I think Toomer is going ot be a solid contributor in 3rd down situations this year, Don't have any clue to this point what Engram offers to this team on the field, and remain skeptical about Lelie.

Defense
- Starting defense only gave up one scoring drive in the first half. Looked like they were strong against the run and getting good pressure on the QB. Adrian Peterson was a nonfactor. No sacks or INTs though.

Starting D did their job, though Ron Edwards remains to be useless.

- Last week, I commented on Corey Mays here. This week, I'll compliment the entire unit because I saw a lot of movement and a lot of playmaking out of this group. Mays was terrific again, just like last week. That hit he put on Favre was awesome. Who the heck is Jovan Belcher? He was all over the place last night just like Mays was, if not even more. Hali looked good too. I think the linebackers have some real nice depth to them....now if we can just find four starters out of this group, we'll be good.

Mays continues to impress, while Hali still has problems as a run defender, but he did look improved from last week.

DJ wasn't dropping deep enough in his zone drops, and was beaten like a drum in man coverage on the first TD.

Jovan Belcher flashed, both on defense and special teams.

-Seems like Page and Pollard are doing a decent job of helping out against the run. I saw Page making plays in the backfield a couple times at least.

Page played as well in run support as he ever has.

- I thought the starting Dline got decent penetration. Tyson Jackson appeared to be playing in the Vikings backfield on a lot of his snaps. I saw Tank Tyler and Derek Lokey make some nice plays too. Don't remember Ron Edward's name being called ever though. Is he really going to get the nod at NT when the season starts? Didn't see too much from Alex Magee or Glenn Dorsey this week.

Why is Ron Edwards still on this team?
We might as well just put a blocking sled out there in his place, we'd get as much production.
Dorsey, Jackson, MaGee, and Tank all flashed

Special Teams
- Succop again was impressive. All his kickoffs made it into the endzone or got to it. He made a couple shorter fieldgoals....not a huge deal when they're under 40 yards, but remember, we haven't had a kicker who could make those consistantly for a while now.
- Colquitt was Colquitt....huge booming punts and nearly 5 seconds of hangtime. Very nice.[/quote]

At this point I am only let to hope that Succop continues to impress into the regular season.
If he does, then our kicking game is set.


The Bad

Offense
- Quentin Lawrence had a nice end-around on the TD drive and a couple nice 3rd down catches. He also dropped several passes and I believe that was him that muffed the opening kickoff. Looking like a practice squad player at best right now.[/quote]

Lawrence is a practice squad project who you hope can develop.
He's raw.

- Charles fumbled; Battle fumbled twice on back to back possessions; other than LJs 18 yard run, he didn't do much. Between all four players, Savage included, there were a couple nice plays but overall, the Oline really let the running game down.

Ball security is certainly an issue for Charles, and he made a couple of mental mistakes in pass protect situations that were directly responsible for a couple of sacks.

- LJ in particular looked slow and sluggish to me...anyone else see that?

You're late to the party, dude.

- Sean Ryan with a couple more drops. Anyone else thinking Jake Oconnell might have the upperhand in this competition?

Our TEs are unimpressive.

Defense
- Our secondary is back to allowing big plays again. Carr got beat by their tightend for a touchdown and McGraw and Morgan completely blew their coverage responsibility in allowing that 64 yd touchdown. McGraw simply should not be playing in the secondary at this point in his career and Morgan is looking like he might not even make the roster. Is it just me or did Mike Brown look confused some of the time?
- Whereas we got good pressure on their quarterbacks in the first quarter or so....that really tailed off as the game wore on and Tavaris Jackson had a lot of time back there which led to some big scoring plays.

Our second and third stringers, outside of a couple of players, are all cuts waiting to eventually happen.

Special Teams
no one in the return game stood out. I thought I saw Savage with a nice return towards the end of the game. I know I saw a couple drops in there too.

We are doomed.

We got crap for returns.

shammus
08-22-2009, 12:34 PM
Milkman,

Thanks for the quality response. I like the way you broke my original post down point by point. From your first couple of responses of yours in this thread, I had the impression that I had typed something that royally pissed you off. Turns out, we agreed on a lot of what we saw.

Like my original post said, I'm just casually observing these games. I don't have DVR and I don't get to watch the game over and over so I will miss things. The thing I love about preseason is that I get to watch all the training camp battles to see who wins and who gets cut. It's sort of fun to analyze but maybe that's just me. But if you're wondering why I bother typing all that out, that's why.

A couple responses to your posts...

Yep, LJ doesn't have it. Funny, I've been hearing good things about him on 610 and 810 but he's certainly not showing it so far. I realize this is old news but all I can do is relate what I saw. Other than the one decent run, he looked like he was really ineffective. It seemed like we were running Barry Richardson's way some of the time though and Larry was getting buried as a result. Take away the good run and he put up something like 7 carries for 3 yards. Ouch.

On Cassel, I guess I meant the RESULT was 180 degrees turned around. I realize that week 1 wasn't his fault. But this week, with the same starting WRs (although Bowe was quickly added in) and the same bad Oline, he was much, much more impressive.

Yep, I missed the Shiancoe play. DJ had the coverage. After the play was over and Shiancoe was getting up, I looked at the Chiefs players that were getting up with him and saw Carr's #39 that I recognized first. The announcer actually said Carr was beaten so that name stuck with me. DJ was actually the one trailing after him in coverage so I missed that one.

the Talking Can
08-22-2009, 12:37 PM
lj takes for fucking ever just to get to the line of scrimmage

he runs like a guy who doesn't want it anymore, just the paycheck

JASONSAUTO
08-22-2009, 12:40 PM
lj takes for fucking ever just to get to the line of scrimmage

he runs like a guy who doesn't want it anymore, just the paycheck

funny that there was a thread about fatherly advice yesterday, my pops always said "you can do anything, you just have to WANT it". lj doesnt want "it" anymore, well unless "it" is a paycheck

milkman
08-22-2009, 12:41 PM
Milkman,

Thanks for the quality response. I like the way you broke my original post down point by point. From your first couple of responses of yours in this thread, I had the impression that I had typed something that royally pissed you off. Turns out, we agreed on a lot of what we saw.

Like my original post said, I'm just casually observing these games. I don't have DVR and I don't get to watch the game over and over so I will miss things. The thing I love about preseason is that I get to watch all the training camp battles to see who wins and who gets cut. It's sort of fun to analyze but maybe that's just me. But if you're wondering why I bother typing all that out, that's why.

A couple responses to your posts...

Yep, LJ doesn't have it. Funny, I've been hearing good things about him on 610 and 810 but he's certainly not showing it so far. I realize this is old news but all I can do is relate what I saw. Other than the one decent run, he looked like he was really ineffective. It seemed like we were running Barry Richardson's way some of the time though and Larry was getting buried as a result. Take away the good run and he put up something like 7 carries for 3 yards. Ouch.

On Cassel, I guess I meant the RESULT was 180 degrees turned around. I realize that week 1 wasn't his fault. But this week, with the same starting WRs (although Bowe was quickly added in) and the same bad Oline, he was much, much more impressive.

Yep, I missed the Shiancoe play. DJ had the coverage. After the play was over and Shiancoe was getting up, I looked at the Chiefs players that were getting up with him and saw Carr's #39 that I recognized first. The announcer actually said Carr was beaten so that name stuck with me. DJ was actually the one trailing after him in coverage so I missed that one.

BR wasn't spectacular, but he did a somewhat more than credible job.

He consistently sealed off the edge, and consistently ran the DE around Cassel in pass protect.

Goff was just horendous, and there were a couple of plays that Waters was pulling, and was slow and late.

Those two were more responsible for LJ's lack of production than Richardson.

And LJ is simply not getting the job done himself.

DaneMcCloud
08-22-2009, 12:43 PM
funny that there was a thread about fatherly advice yesterday, my pops always said "you can do anything, you just have to WANT it". lj doesnt want "it" anymore, well unless "it" is a paycheck

I wouldn't go that far.

The guy had a record number of carries in 2006. He was injured in 2007. He probably would have had 1,000 yards rushing last year had it not been for the suspension.

The bottom line is that the guy is old (29, nearly 30) and worn out.

He just doesn't have "it" anymore.

WilliamTheIrish
08-22-2009, 12:45 PM
Yep. LJ's midnight may have passed. He's a pumpkin.

Marcellus
08-22-2009, 12:46 PM
I wouldn't go that far.

The guy had a record number of carries in 2006. He was injured in 2007. He probably would have had 1,000 yards rushing last year had it not been for the suspension.

The bottom line is that the guy is old (29, nearly 30) and worn out.

He just doesn't have "it" anymore.

Damn, I agree with you on this. I think the number of carries he had in 2006 may have taken his legs.

You would also have to think these guys aren't going to be their freshest right now. They work harder in training camp than they do during the season.

JASONSAUTO
08-22-2009, 12:47 PM
I wouldn't go that far.

The guy had a record number of carries in 2006. He was injured in 2007. He probably would have had 1,000 yards rushing last year had it not been for the suspension.

The bottom line is that the guy is old (29, nearly 30) and worn out.

He just doesn't have "it" anymore.

dane, he doesnt want it. it's pretty obvious. he falls down as easy as herb taylor did when wade smith(IIRC) pushed him while he was trying to tell the refs he was eligible. BTW WHAT THE FUCK WAS UP WITH THAT? i havent seen it discussed yet. i think i will start athread about it

DaneMcCloud
08-22-2009, 12:49 PM
dane, he doesnt want it. it's pretty obvious. he falls down as easy as herb taylor did when wade smith(IIRC) pushed him while he was trying to tell the refs he was eligible. BTW WHAT THE FUCK WAS UP WITH THAT? i havent seen it discussed yet. i think i will start athread about it


I'm sorry, Jason. I disagree.

The guy is shot. He could seriously take the season off and probably come back stronger next year.

Or maybe not. But he looks to be done.

JASONSAUTO
08-22-2009, 12:50 PM
I'm sorry, Jason. I disagree.

The guy is shot. He could seriously take the season off and probably come back stronger next year.

Or maybe not. But he looks to be done.

cool we can agree to disagree here. lj is a pussy. but you didnt talk about the taylor shit ROFL

DaneMcCloud
08-22-2009, 12:52 PM
cool we can agree to disagree here. lj is a pussy. but you didnt talk about the taylor shit ROFL

Jason, maybe I've watched more football across the league than you. I don't know. But to me, LJ looks like he's done. He looks like a guy that no longer has it. A guy who's tread has been worn off the tires. Much like Jamaal Anderson or Edgerrin James last year. Or Deuce McCallister. Guys that are just done.

I mean, for FFS, Haley & Pioli have said he's been a model citizen and an extremely hard worker. He's lost weight. He's done everything that's been asked of him on the field.

The problem is that there's no tread left on the tires.

milkman
08-22-2009, 12:54 PM
I'm sorry, Jason. I disagree.

The guy is shot. He could seriously take the season off and probably come back stronger next year.

Or maybe not. But he looks to be done.

I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

He's older, and all those carries took a toll on his body, but at the same time, he doesn't run with the same kind of desire and passion that he did in '06 and '07.

He simply doesn't lower his shoulder and attempt to get physical, whether he's at the line or in the second level.

Marcellus
08-22-2009, 01:00 PM
Watching the replay I noticed not only is Bowe catching the ball but he is blocking his ass of in the run game.

DaneMcCloud
08-22-2009, 01:00 PM
I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

He's older, and all those carries took a toll on his body, but at the same time, he doesn't run with the same kind of desire and passion that he did in '06 and '07.

He simply doesn't lower his shoulder and attempt to get physical, whether he's at the line or in the second level.

I'm sure there's a psychological aspect to it as well but that's probably because he knows that it just isn't there as well.

Marcellus
08-22-2009, 01:01 PM
Oh yea, and Cassel looks like he is wearing guy liner. LOL.

RedThat
08-22-2009, 01:04 PM
The truth is LJ played his best when he was a backup under Priest and cried to the coach to get him into the game as a starter ala "take off your diapers comment" comes to mind.

Then "genious" Herm ran him to the ground, played well, got his contract, was unhappy with the offense, and hasn't been the same ever since.

*To me, its all about motivation. He had his productive years, and got his money. what else more does he need to prove to be motivated other then being consistent and a team player? which he is neither one.

DaneMcCloud
08-22-2009, 01:05 PM
The truth is LJ played his best when he was a backup under Priest and cried to the coach to get him into the game as a starter ala "take off your diapers comment" comes to mind.

Then "genious" Herm ran him to the ground, played well, got his contract, was unhappy with the offense, and hasn't been the same ever since.

*To me, its all about motivation. He had his productive years, and got his money. what else more does he need to prove to be motivated other then being consistent and a team player? which he is neither one.

I'm sorry but Priest Holmes wouldn't do jackshit with this offensive line.

JASONSAUTO
08-22-2009, 01:06 PM
Jason, maybe I've watched more football across the league than you. I don't know. But to me, LJ looks like he's done. He looks like a guy that no longer has it. A guy who's tread has been worn off the tires. Much like Jamaal Anderson or Edgerrin James last year. Or Deuce McCallister. Guys that are just done.

I mean, for FFS, Haley & Pioli have said he's been a model citizen and an extremely hard worker. He's lost weight. He's done everything that's been asked of him on the field.

The problem is that there's no tread left on the tires.

dane i watch every game thats on. i can see what you are getting at and yeah he's lost something physically, BUT he also looks like he's lost the fire to REALLY TRY. i mean my 4 year old daughter takes bigger hits and keeps running through the living room. hell during the game last night she caught the end of the couch and ran right through it. i laughed thinking the couch would have had LJ's ass downROFL

milkman
08-22-2009, 01:08 PM
I'm sure there's a psychological aspect to it as well but that's probably because he knows that it just isn't there as well.

That may be true.

However, even Edge and Deuce continued to run with passion even though they ran ineffectively.

RedThat
08-22-2009, 01:08 PM
I'm sorry but Priest Holmes wouldn't do jackshit with this offensive line.

People want to place all the blame on the offensive line which imo is unfair. Its not all on the offensive line? If LJ is not motivated, and lacks vision to make him an effective back, then he deserves part of the blame.

A bad RB can also make an offensive line look bad. They both go hand in hand and work together.

JASONSAUTO
08-22-2009, 01:08 PM
That may be true.

However, even Edge and Deuce continued to run with passion even though they ran ineffectively.

yep, they still had the fire. lj just looks for someone to blame.

milkman
08-22-2009, 01:11 PM
On another note, I just finished rewatching the second half, and I continue to be impressed by Colin Brown and Daryl Harris.

Also, both FBs, Mike Cox and Jed Collins are mediocre, at best.

milkman
08-22-2009, 01:12 PM
People want to place all the blame on the offensive line which imo is unfair. Its not all on the offensive line? If LJ is not motivated, and lacks vision to make him an effective back, then he deserves part of the blame.

A bad RB can also make an offensive line look bad. They both go hand in hand and work together.

Repost.

JASONSAUTO
08-22-2009, 01:12 PM
On another note, I just finished rewatching the second half, and I continue to be impressed by Colin Brown and Daryl Harris.

Also, both FBs, Mike Cox and Jed Collins are mediocre, at best.

agreed, did you see the play where brown pushed his guy right past the qb? feet looked good there

milkman
08-22-2009, 01:15 PM
agreed, did you see the play where brown pushed his guy right past the qb? feet looked good there

Yeah, whne he's engaged with the defender, his footwork is solid.

It's when he was at Tackle and had to move his feet to set up that he looked really bad.

KCUnited
08-22-2009, 01:16 PM
After rewatching the first half, Goff was worse than I thought. The word on Brown through OTA's was that he was very raw and needed help with his footwork, but going forward I would like to see him work against better competition, he can't be that much worse than Goff was last night.

JASONSAUTO
08-22-2009, 01:17 PM
Yeah, whne he's engaged with the defender, his footwork is solid.

It's when he was at Tackle and had to move his feet to set up that he looked really bad.

see i dont get that. why? i wwould think it would be easier to move in open space.

milkman
08-22-2009, 01:18 PM
After rewatching the first half, Goff was worse than I thought. The word on Brown through OTA's was that he was very raw and needed help with his footwork, but going forward I would like to see him work against better competition, he can't be that much worse than Goff was last night.

I would not be surprised to see Brown replace Goff before the end of the season.

Goff has been beyond pathetic.

RedThat
08-22-2009, 01:19 PM
Maybe the right side of the line is going to consist of Brown and Richardson during the course of the season?

JASONSAUTO
08-22-2009, 01:21 PM
Maybe the right side of the line is going to consist of Brown and Richardson during the course of the season?

THIS

RedThat
08-22-2009, 01:23 PM
THIS

THAT I TELL YOU!! THAT!!:P

JASONSAUTO
08-22-2009, 01:24 PM
THAT I TELL YOU!! THAT!!:P

:D

milkman
08-22-2009, 01:26 PM
see i dont get that. why? i wwould think it would be easier to move in open space.

Not really.

When your engaged with the defender, your footwork is a reaction to the defender.

Footwork in open space requires nimbleness, and Brown is far from nimble.

He's numble.

JASONSAUTO
08-22-2009, 01:27 PM
Not really.

When your engaged with the defender, your footwork is a reaction to the defender.

Footwork in open space requires nimbleness, and Brown is far from nimble.

He's numble.

thanks. makes sense. so he is more of a follower, dancing wise:D

Coogs
08-22-2009, 01:49 PM
DJ wasn't dropping deep enough in his zone drops, and was beaten like a drum in man coverage on the first TD.


I'm not going to defend the coverage, but look at what happens to Vrabel at the end of the line when the QB rolls out of the pocket to the right. The OT (I think) grabs him by the collar, and pulls him down right on top of him. Then he proceeds to hold him down by the same collar hold. There goes our containment to that rollout, when it looks like Vrabel is ready to do his job. Should have been an easy call for the officials to make.

LaChapelle
08-22-2009, 01:50 PM
LJ has always looked slow, even when at his best. Not saying a replacement shouldn't be on the sidelines and warmed up.

Croyle had another brainfart, I just don't remember now what it was. Haley was not pleased. He did make a throw away to the line. Learned.

Haley's facial expressions, those shown(more shown on the local broadcast). Were a lot less angry last night. Maybe not pleased, but far from pissed off like before.

The down pour last week may have thrown things off track for comparing to this week.

JASONSAUTO
08-22-2009, 01:50 PM
I'm not going to defend the coverage, but look at what happens to Vrabel at the end of the line when the QB rolls out of the pocket to the right. The OT (I think) grabs him by the collar, and pulls him down right on top of him. Then he proceeds to hold him down by the same collar hold. There goes our containment to that rollout, when it looks like Vrabel is ready to do his job. Should have been an easy call for the officials to make.

on that coverage dj looked as though he went too far inside

Coogs
08-22-2009, 01:53 PM
on that coverage dj looked as though he went too far insideVery possible. I have not rewatched the game yet. I know the people I was watching the game with last night and myself were amazed that a flag was not thrown for a hold on Vrabel. Rewound and watched that portion of the play 3 or 4 times. Blatent hold right in plain sight.

JASONSAUTO
08-22-2009, 01:55 PM
Very possible. I have not rewatched the game yet. I know the people I was watching the game with last night and myself were amazed that a flag was not thrown for a hold on Vrabel. Rewound and watched that portion of the play 3 or 4 times. Blatent hold right in plain sight.

i just saw DJ sprinting from the middle of the endzone like he was confused and covering the WR there with carr IIRC

DaneMcCloud
08-22-2009, 01:58 PM
People want to place all the blame on the offensive line which imo is unfair.



LMAO

Please don't tell me you're defending this offensive line.

Are you?

TrebMaxx
08-22-2009, 02:27 PM
I think the o-line will be one of the weakest links on this team this season. I would expect once the O-line is set and given time to jell performance will increase. Way too much time in training camp was wasted on McSuckingtosh having him in with the first team line.

RedThat
08-22-2009, 02:31 PM
LMAO

Please don't tell me you're defending this offensive line.

Are you?

Im just trying to get at that football is a team game. Many positions complement each other. Im not trying to defend the offensive line my statements are being made because im looking at this from a broad perspective rather then narrowing it down to one position and placing the blame on one position only.

Micjones
08-22-2009, 02:33 PM
I was REALLY hoping that Quentin Lawrence could stick as our all-purpose returnman.
I knew he was going to need time to contribute offensively.
Looks like he isn't ready to step up in either role though.
Hopefully he can show something over the next 2 games and make this team.
He's our ONLY hope on returns (unless someone is signed) and ONLY because he has wheels.

Chief Chief
08-22-2009, 02:33 PM
Croyle took a vicious hit to the helmet which resulted in another blow to his head when his helmet immediately caromed off of the helmet of KC's #77.

Took a licking and kept on ticking...

riskrevival
08-22-2009, 02:34 PM
our Safeties are horrendous. I expect Carr to give up a catch or big play once and awhile but that's where the over the top help should come into play, but our safeties are so bad that we let 30 yard passes turn into 60 yard touchdowns.

Buehler445
08-22-2009, 03:09 PM
People want to place all the blame on the offensive line which imo is unfair. Its not all on the offensive line? If LJ is not motivated, and lacks vision to make him an effective back, then he deserves part of the blame.

A bad RB can also make an offensive line look bad. They both go hand in hand and work together.

I mentioned that LJ missed a few cutbacks earlier.

Milkman, I appreciate your analysis. Keep sharing. Good stuff.

aturnis
08-22-2009, 04:58 PM
Watching the replay I noticed not only is Bowe catching the ball but he is blocking his ass of in the run game.

Like I've said a few times, I'm pretty sure this is what Haley wants to see. He wasn't too pissed at Bowe for the receiver aspect of his position, he just wants more out of his receivers. He wanted Bowe to block in the run game, and finally, Bowe is getting the message. Also, I think Bowe had to prove himself in the classroom. I think Haley's been having problems getting him to study.

Buehler445
08-22-2009, 05:00 PM
Like I've said a few times, I'm pretty sure this is what Haley wants to see. He wasn't too pissed at Bowe for the receiver aspect of his position, he just wants more out of his receivers. He wanted Bowe to block in the run game, and finally, Bowe is getting the message. Also, I think Bowe had to prove himself in the classroom. I think Haley's been having problems getting him to study.

From what I can see, Bowe got the message. He didn't even do much after he scored.

BTW, LOL @ Benny Sapp. WTF was he doing on that play? Just chillin in the endzone or what?

Buehler445
08-22-2009, 05:02 PM
Speaking of Benny Sapp, I think everyone in the building should have known he was going to blitz when he sacked Cassel. He's good at it and there probably aren't many that were around when he was, but I could see it coming from a mile away.

Halfcan
08-22-2009, 05:28 PM
my take on the Cheaps

same old shit

milkman
08-22-2009, 05:29 PM
my take on the Cheaps

same old shit

My take of Halfcan is the same as yours on the "Cheaps".

JFC.

Mecca
08-22-2009, 05:34 PM
Why does anyone still talk about LJ like the way he runs now is surprising?

He's no longer the same player, hell EJ Henderson grabbed his shoulders from behind and took him right down, when he was in his prime no one tackled him high.

Skip Towne
08-22-2009, 05:47 PM
Why does anyone still talk about LJ like the way he runs now is surprising?

He's no longer the same player, hell EJ Henderson grabbed his shoulders from behind and took him right down, when he was in his prime no one tackled him high.

No one could catch him either but they sure can now.

DeezNutz
08-22-2009, 06:02 PM
Why does anyone still talk about LJ like the way he runs now is surprising?

He's no longer the same player, hell EJ Henderson grabbed his shoulders from behind and took him right down, when he was in his prime no one tackled him high.

I commented on this play in the game thread.

Perfect microcosm of what LJ is today.

RedThat
08-22-2009, 06:10 PM
my take on the Cheaps

same old shit

theres always next year?

:D

all the time

since nineteen sixty nine

oh it ain't look'n so fine!

*sing it!

chop
08-22-2009, 07:56 PM
lj takes for ****ing ever just to get to the line of scrimmage

he runs like a guy who doesn't want it anymore, just the paycheck

Didn't he lose his contract battle with the Chiefs earlier this year? Doesn't he have to make the Chiefs roster this year to guarantee his salary? I think I heard that the Chiefs sit in the drivers seat in regards to his contract status. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

EyePod
08-22-2009, 08:16 PM
LJ stopped moving his legs the second he got hit. Other times he would pick up both feet off the ground and glide into a hit as opposed to putting his shoulder down and running through someone like he used to.

Fumbles aside... Charles, Battle, and Savage all run the ball like they want to starting job . LJ looks like he is just going though the motions. I am VERY underwhelmed by him right now.

He was also getting hit about 1.5 yards BEHIND the line of scrimmage... I mean, he didn't look good but our line didn't help at all. It's hard to hit top speed when you only have about 1 yard to do it in.

Groves
08-22-2009, 10:04 PM
LJ says, and everyone sees that he gets better as the game goes on, perhaps better as the season goes on. Let's hope that accounts for what we see in early series in early PRE-season games.

Count Zarth
08-22-2009, 10:14 PM
Richardson opened the hole on LJ's one good run

Richardson was NOT EVEN IN THE GAME on that play.

milkman
08-22-2009, 10:18 PM
Richardson was NOT EVEN IN THE GAME on that play.

I was hoping no one else picked up on that to see if you even actually were paying any attention.

Count Zarth
08-22-2009, 10:20 PM
I was hoping no one else picked up on that to see if you even actually were paying any attention.

ROFL

Oh what a tangled web you weave.

DaneMcCloud
08-22-2009, 10:28 PM
I was hoping no one else picked up on that to see if you even actually were paying any attention.

Nice save

:D

milkman
08-22-2009, 10:40 PM
Nice save

:D

Honestly, when posting that, I forgot that I wasn't posting in GoChiefs' "Cassel Succeeds" thread.

I posted that to bait Claythan.

DaneMcCloud
08-22-2009, 10:41 PM
Honestly, when posting that, I forgot that I wasn't posting in GoChiefs' "Cassel Succeeds" thread.

I posted that to bait Claythan.

I was just kidding.

It was very clearly FcIntosh on the block and there's no way that you would miss that.

Count Zarth
08-22-2009, 10:42 PM
Anyway, it will be interesting to see who gets the starting nod next week.

I would not mind Richardson getting another chance at all.

Buehler445
08-22-2009, 10:44 PM
Anyway, it will be interesting to see who gets the starting nod next week.

I would not mind Richardson getting another chance at all.

I think he should.

Sackintosh opened the big hole, but LJ ran to the left most of the time Richardson was in. IMO, Richardson should be given a good bit of rope.

milkman
08-22-2009, 10:45 PM
I was just kidding.

It was very clearly FcIntosh on the block and there's no way that you would miss that.

On a side note, what was your impression of Harris and Brown?

beer bacon
08-22-2009, 11:39 PM
Why does anyone still talk about LJ like the way he runs now is surprising?

He's no longer the same player, hell EJ Henderson grabbed his shoulders from behind and took him right down, when he was in his prime no one tackled him high.

Do you think that 400+ carry season did permanent harm to his body, or is he just not motivated anymore?

Count Zarth
08-22-2009, 11:51 PM
I think Hali is going to surprise a lot of people. Did anyone see what he did to McKinnie on the hit he put on Favre? He powered right through a guy who might have 100 pounds on him.

Buehler445
08-23-2009, 07:20 PM
I think Hali is going to surprise a lot of people. Did anyone see what he did to McKinnie on the hit he put on Favre? He powered right through a guy who might have 100 pounds on him.

That hit deserves a .gif just for the "Welcome back to the NFL douche formerly known as Favre" effect.

I think this position will suit Hali best as long as he doesn't have to cover much. I mentioned it, maybe in this thread, that he still looks kinda slow on his moves and can't seem to get much separation. Hopefully he can come around some.

DaneMcCloud
08-23-2009, 09:39 PM
On a side note, what was your impression of Harris and Brown?

I just re-watched the second half and focused on Harris. I thought with the exception of two downs, he played very, very well. The first was the whiff that allowed the defender to go helmet-to-helmet with Croyle, resulting in a personal foul. The second was when he allowed two defenders to put pressure on Gutierrez on the final drive.

I'm really impressed with his pulling abilities and the fact that he hustles down field and is in perfect position to block on screens and plays that go right. He doesn't look like an UDFA to me, at all. The only criticism I have at this point is that he needs to get a little lower against some of the D-tackles and/or that he needs to hit the squat rack and improve his lower body strength. He's not weak but he could use a little more strength IMO. But at age 21, he has plenty of room to do that.

I think he's a keeper and likely the starter at left guard next year.

If not sooner.

OnTheWarpath58
08-23-2009, 10:15 PM
I just re-watched the second half and focused on Harris. I thought with the exception of two downs, he played very, very well. The first was the whiff that allowed the defender to go helmet-to-helmet with Croyle, resulting in a personal foul. The second was when he allowed two defenders to put pressure on Gutierrez on the final drive.

I'm really impressed with his pulling abilities and the fact that he hustles down field and is in perfect position to block on screens and plays that go right. He doesn't look like an UDFA to me, at all. The only criticism I have at this point is that he needs to get a little lower against some of the D-tackles and/or that he needs to hit the squat rack and improve his lower body strength. He's not weak but he could use a little more strength IMO. But at age 21, he has plenty of room to do that.

I think he's a keeper and likely the starter at left guard next year.

If not sooner.

But Brian Waters is a Pro Bowler, and easily has 5 years left.

LMAO