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petegz28
08-23-2009, 09:21 AM
intersing coversation I had with the family at breakfast today about the stimulus bill. How can Obama say things like "if we hadn't of passed the stimuls bill "x" would be worse than it is", when only 5%(?) of the stimulus bill money has been spent?

He speaks as if the stimulus has gone in full force and prevented things from being worse than they are but the fact is, none, or very little, of the stimulus money has been put into action.

Is this not just a total fucking lie? Also in coversation of said topic we were discussing how we are still waiting for the 3 million jobs to be created, and the 600,000 jobs that were supposed to be created over the summer???

FTR, my in-laws are Obama voting democrats. And weekly they admit what a mistake they made voting for him. Granted they wish Hillary had won, but nonetheless....

Saul Good
08-23-2009, 09:29 AM
I don't think I've ever seen a faster fall from grace.

banyon
08-23-2009, 09:54 AM
The economic theory they are operating on is that consumer confidence drives demand and demand drives production.

Under that theory, planning to distribute money at a future date is often enough to get people to make production plans in anticipation of that spending.

The theory has its flaws, but it answers your question and is at a minimum a logically consistent and tenable theory (though not necessarily ideal).

Saul Good
08-23-2009, 10:00 AM
The economic theory they are operating on is that consumer confidence drives demand and demand drives production.

Under that theory, planning to distribute money at a future date is often enough to get people to make production plans in anticipation of that spending.

The theory has its flaws, but it answers your question and is at a minimum a logically consistent and tenable theory (though not necessarily ideal).

Then it's still a lie.

http://www.conference-board.org/economics/consumerConfidence.cfm

The Conference Board Consumer Confidence Index®, which had retreated in June, declined further in July. The Index now stands at 46.6 (1985=100), down from 49.3 in June. The Present Situation Index decreased to 23.4 from 25.0 last month. The Expectations Index declined to 62.0 from 65.5 in June.

The Consumer Confidence Survey® is based on a representative sample of 5,000 U.S. households. The monthly survey is conducted for The Conference Board by TNS. TNS is the world's largest custom research company. The cutoff date for July’s preliminary results was July 21st.

Says Lynn Franco, Director of The Conference Board Consumer Research Center: "Consumer confidence, which had rebounded strongly in late spring, has faded in the last two months. The decline in the Present Situation Index was caused primarily by a worsening job market, as the percent of consumers claiming jobs are hard to get rose sharply. The decline in the Expectations Index was more the result of an increase in the proportion of consumers expecting no change in business and labor market conditions, as opposed to an increase in the percent of consumers expecting conditions to deteriorate further. However, more consumers are pessimistic about their income expectations, which does not bode well for spending in the months ahead."

Consumers continued to rate current conditions unfavorably in July. Those saying business conditions are "bad" increased to 46.3 percent from 45.3 percent, however, those saying conditions are "good" increased to 9.1 percent from 8.1 percent. Consumers' assessment of the labor market deteriorated further. Those claiming jobs are "hard to get" increased to 48.1 percent from 44.8 percent, while those claiming jobs are "plentiful" decreased to 3.6 percent from 4.5 percent.

Overall, consumers remain quite pessimistic about the short-term outlook. The percent of consumers anticipating an improvement in business conditions over the next six months decreased to 18.0 percent from 20.9 percent, however, those expecting conditions to worsen decreased to 18.9 percent from 20.4 percent.

The labor market outlook was also mixed. The percentage of consumers expecting more jobs in the months ahead decreased to 15.0 percent from 17.5 percent, however, those expecting fewer jobs decreased to 26.3 percent from 27.6 percent. The proportion of consumers expecting an increase in their incomes declined to 9.5 percent from 10.1 percent.

petegz28
08-23-2009, 10:03 AM
The economic theory they are operating on is that consumer confidence drives demand and demand drives production.

Under that theory, planning to distribute money at a future date is often enough to get people to make production plans in anticipation of that spending.

The theory has its flaws, but it answers your question and is at a minimum a logically consistent and tenable theory (though not necessarily ideal).

put down the kool-aid..just for a few

banyon
08-23-2009, 10:07 AM
Then it's still a lie.

http://www.conference-board.org/economics/consumerConfidence.cfm

The Conference Board Consumer Confidence Index®, which had retreated in June, declined further in July. The Index now stands at 46.6 (1985=100), down from 49.3 in June. The Present Situation Index decreased to 23.4 from 25.0 last month. The Expectations Index declined to 62.0 from 65.5 in June.

The Consumer Confidence Survey® is based on a representative sample of 5,000 U.S. households. The monthly survey is conducted for The Conference Board by TNS. TNS is the world's largest custom research company. The cutoff date for July’s preliminary results was July 21st.

Says Lynn Franco, Director of The Conference Board Consumer Research Center: "Consumer confidence, which had rebounded strongly in late spring, has faded in the last two months. The decline in the Present Situation Index was caused primarily by a worsening job market, as the percent of consumers claiming jobs are hard to get rose sharply. The decline in the Expectations Index was more the result of an increase in the proportion of consumers expecting no change in business and labor market conditions, as opposed to an increase in the percent of consumers expecting conditions to deteriorate further. However, more consumers are pessimistic about their income expectations, which does not bode well for spending in the months ahead."

Consumers continued to rate current conditions unfavorably in July. Those saying business conditions are "bad" increased to 46.3 percent from 45.3 percent, however, those saying conditions are "good" increased to 9.1 percent from 8.1 percent. Consumers' assessment of the labor market deteriorated further. Those claiming jobs are "hard to get" increased to 48.1 percent from 44.8 percent, while those claiming jobs are "plentiful" decreased to 3.6 percent from 4.5 percent.

Overall, consumers remain quite pessimistic about the short-term outlook. The percent of consumers anticipating an improvement in business conditions over the next six months decreased to 18.0 percent from 20.9 percent, however, those expecting conditions to worsen decreased to 18.9 percent from 20.4 percent.

The labor market outlook was also mixed. The percentage of consumers expecting more jobs in the months ahead decreased to 15.0 percent from 17.5 percent, however, those expecting fewer jobs decreased to 26.3 percent from 27.6 percent. The proportion of consumers expecting an increase in their incomes declined to 9.5 percent from 10.1 percent.


I thought we already did this. The Consumer confidence index is way up from the March lows. It's relative, not absoulte terms that the stimulus's impact should be looked at with:


http://www.marketingcharts.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/conference-board-consumer-confidence-index-june-2009.jpg

In any event, it most certainly shouldn't be classified as a "lie". It is the theory. You can argue about whether it is correct or not, and there are certainly flaws in the theory.

petegz28
08-23-2009, 10:07 AM
I thought we already did this. The Consumer confident index is way up from the March lows. It's relative, not absoulte terms that the stimulus's impact should be looked at with:



In any event, it most certainly shouldn't be classified as a "lie". It is the theory. You can argue about whether it is correct or not, and there are certainly flaws in the theory.

it is a lie. The stock market is up too.....the fact is the stimuls bill hasn't helped shit cause it hasn't been implemented enough to matter.

banyon
08-23-2009, 10:08 AM
it is a lie

I hope your dinner table discussion was as well reasoned as this.

What should I say "Nyuh-huh, is not"?

banyon
08-23-2009, 10:10 AM
it is a lie. The stock market is up too.....the fact is the stimuls bill hasn't helped shit cause it hasn't been implemented enough to matter.

That's not a fact, that's just your assertion. I already explained the rationale behind it, try criticizing that.

petegz28
08-23-2009, 10:10 AM
and where are the 600,000 jobs? Let alone the 3 million?

petegz28
08-23-2009, 10:10 AM
I hope your dinner table discussion was as well reasoned as this.

What should I say "Nyuh-huh, is not"?

you basically did

Saul Good
08-23-2009, 10:12 AM
I thought we already did this. The Consumer confidence index is way up from the March lows.

We did. Now it's back to the mid forties and falling. After a three month bump, it's experienced back to back negative months. That's not why you used an outdated chart is it?

banyon
08-23-2009, 10:14 AM
you basically did

There was nothing of substance that you offered to respond to. You may as well have said "suck it" and expected a serious reply.

banyon
08-23-2009, 10:15 AM
We did. Now it's back to the mid forties and falling. After a three month bump, it's experienced back to back negative months. That's not why you used an outdated chart is it?

No, it was the only chart I could find that showed the applicable time range.

Bring out a chart that includes the extra month, it's still up decently from the March lows, and could have been lower without the stimulus (again, its a tenable idea that I didn't support).

petegz28
08-23-2009, 10:31 AM
There was nothing of substance that you offered to respond to. You may as well have said "suck it" and expected a serious reply.

Sure there is....he is making a claim of success on something that has yet to happen...and is far, far short of expecataions.

Jenson71
08-23-2009, 10:34 AM
I'm pretty sure claims are made and legitmately can be made based on budgets being put together. For instance, the budgets at two public schools I've been involved in recently factored in federal stimulus money to provide such and such funding at their board meetings.

petegz28
08-23-2009, 10:37 AM
I'm pretty sure claims are made and legitmately can be made based on budgets being put together. For instance, the budgets at two public schools I've been involved in recently factored in federal stimulus money to provide such and such funding at their board meetings.

That is utterly stupid if they did that. Cause at the rate at which said stimulus is being implemented, they will not get the money in the timeline the projected. So their budget is wrong. A bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush.

Jenson71
08-23-2009, 10:41 AM
That is utterly stupid if they did that. Cause at the rate at which said stimulus is being implemented, they will not get the money in the timeline the projected. So their budget is wrong. A bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush.

When their state notifies them of the funds they will receive through the ARRA, do you think they should take them into account to possibly save jobs or programs or tuition hikes?

banyon
08-23-2009, 10:41 AM
Sure there is....he is making a claim of success on something that has yet to happen...and is far, far short of expecataions.

What is the quote you want to label as a lie? If I'm going to dissect this overreach on your part, I will need to know where to begin.

petegz28
08-23-2009, 10:50 AM
When their state notifies them of the funds they will receive through the ARRA, do you think they should take them into account to possibly save jobs or programs or tuition hikes?

Have they got the money? No. So planning on it was not such a good idea. And if hey have got the money they among a select few who have.

petegz28
08-23-2009, 10:51 AM
What is the quote you want to label as a lie? If I'm going to dissect this overreach on your part, I will need to know where to begin.

Name one thing that has come out the way he said it would. We already know he blew the 8% unemplyment bullshit. Name just 1 thing.

banyon
08-23-2009, 10:53 AM
Name one thing that has come out the way he said it would. We already know he blew the 8% unemplyment bullshit. Name just 1 thing.

Ok, so you don't actualy have a "lie".l You just made it up from a mishmash of your impressions.

Ebolapox
08-23-2009, 10:53 AM
off topic slightly, but are we really so dull that we are ever surprised that politicians lie to us? fuck. I'm as anti wing (right AND left) as anybody on the planet (fuck, I'm anti politician in general), but can't we get to the point when we realize that they're all crooks?

petegz28
08-23-2009, 10:54 AM
Ok, so you don't actualy have a "lie".l You just made it up from a mishmash of your impressions.

Where are the 600,000 jobs he said would be created over the summer? Where is job 1 of the 3 million he said his plan would created?

Jenson71
08-23-2009, 10:55 AM
Have they got the money? No. So planning on it was not such a good idea. And if hey have got the money they among a select few who have.

Have they got the money? It's not sitting in a briefcase in packs of fifties on a table during the school board meeting, but they have it as much as they have any money slotted off to them by the state to produce their budgets.

petegz28
08-23-2009, 10:55 AM
off topic slightly, but are we really so dull that we are ever surprised that politicians lie to us? ****. I'm as anti wing (right AND left) as anybody on the planet (****, I'm anti politician in general), but can't we get to the point when we realize that they're all crooks?

This I agree with. OFten I have said that all politicans are liars and the President is the best among them. Though I might have to re-think that.

banyon
08-23-2009, 10:56 AM
Where are the 600,000 jobs he said would be created over the summer? Where is job 1 of the 3 million he said his plan would created?

Where did he say these things?

petegz28
08-23-2009, 10:56 AM
Have they got the money? It's not sitting in a briefcase in packs of fifties on a table during the school board meeting, but they have it as much as they have any money slotted off to them by the state to produce their budgets.

You say this as States are going broke....nice. I'll take that as a no, they have not received the funds.

petegz28
08-23-2009, 10:57 AM
Where did he say these things?

President Barack Obama today will promise to deliver more than 600,000 new jobs this summer with accelerated spending of some of the $787-billion economic stimulus that Congress approved at his urging earlier this year.

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2009/06/obama_600000_jobs_summer_boost.html

banyon
08-23-2009, 10:59 AM
President Barack Obama today will promise to deliver more than 600,000 new jobs this summer with accelerated spending of some of the $787-billion economic stimulus that Congress approved at his urging earlier this year.

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2009/06/obama_600000_jobs_summer_boost.html

He will promise? You understand that's not a quote, right? In fact, it only anticipates a future speech.

i hope this is not really where you got this idea from.

petegz28
08-23-2009, 11:01 AM
He will promise? You understand that's not a quote, right? In fact, it only anticipates a future speech.

I just gave you the first result of a google search,,,,I know..everyone made it up, banyon

petegz28
08-23-2009, 11:02 AM
WASHINGTON, June 8 (Reuters) - President Barack Obama said on Monday accelerated stimulus spending would create or save 600,000 jobs over the next 100 days, pledging action to slow the growth of unemployment that has reached a 25-year high.
http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN0833333820090608


It must be a conspiracy, banyon...

banyon
08-23-2009, 11:06 AM
WASHINGTON, June 8 (Reuters) - President Barack Obama said on Monday accelerated stimulus spending would create or save 600,000 jobs over the next 100 days, pledging action to slow the growth of unemployment that has reached a 25-year high.
http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN0833333820090608


It must be a conspiracy, banyon...

accelerated stimulus spending would create or save 600,000 jobs over the next 100 days


Huh, it got a little different, didn't it? That is, when we got the actual quote.

petegz28
08-23-2009, 11:07 AM
Huh, it got a little different, didn't it? That is, when we got the actual quote.

Yea, I know, you will buy that bullshit. Just like how he was going to create 3 million jobs then he went to "create or save". That is a hedge and it is bullshit.

But if you like to be told it is raining while someone pisses on your leg, then be my guest.

Jenson71
08-23-2009, 11:07 AM
You say this as States are going broke....nice. I'll take that as a no, they have not received the funds.

You're not making sense.

petegz28
08-23-2009, 11:08 AM
You're not making sense.

If you say so....

banyon
08-23-2009, 11:08 AM
Yea, I know, you will buy that bullshit. Just like how he was going to create 3 million jobs then he went to "create or save". That is a hedge and it is bullshit.

But if you like to be told it is raining while someone pisses on your leg, then be my guest.

Buy that bullshit? You were the one who got the quote wrong weren't you? You might want to check your own boots at the door.
Do you really think that if the economy had kept worsening from the March low, that more firms wouldn't have laid people off?

petegz28
08-23-2009, 11:10 AM
Buy that bullshit? You were the one who got the quote wrong weren't you?

Do you really think that if the economy had kept worsening from the March low, that more firms wouldn't have laid people off?

Hello, firms are continuing to lay people off. The economy has not done anything stellar since March. All that has improved is the stock market, and many speculate that is only happening because of the Lehman ordeal finally being digested. There are no jobs being created, banyon. That is the bottom line.

Jenson71
08-23-2009, 11:11 AM
If you say so....

Go to a public school board meeting. They are very accessible and informing. They'll talk about the federal stimulus funds at some point I'm sure, and you can ask them about the details of putting together public budgets and where the money is at that moment. We can't do your discovering for you, pete. It's time to move out of the intellectual basement.

petegz28
08-23-2009, 11:12 AM
Buy that bullshit? You were the one who got the quote wrong weren't you? You might want to check your own boots at the door.
Do you really think that if the economy had kept worsening from the March low, that more firms wouldn't have laid people off?

Here is what Obama told eveyrone to sell the stimulus...

http://michaelscomments.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/stimulus-vs-unemployment-july-dots3.gif

Now go piss in the wind

petegz28
08-23-2009, 11:13 AM
Go to a public school board meeting. They are very accessible and informing. They'll talk about the federal stimulus funds at some point I'm sure, and you can ask them about the details of putting together public budgets and where the money is at that moment. We can't do your discovering for you, pete. It's time to move out of the intellectual basement.

I will continue to take that as a no, the schools you refer too have yet to receive the money they counted on.

banyon
08-23-2009, 11:14 AM
Hello, firms are continuing to lay people off. The economy has not done anything stellar since March. All that has improved is the stock market, and many speculate that is only happening because of the Lehman ordeal finally being digested. There are no jobs being created, banyon. That is the bottom line.

The bottom line was that Obama didn't say he would create that many jobs and you either misremembered or distorted it.

Also, just because jobs are continuing to be lost, the rate of loss it the point. By all accounts that rate of job loss has slowed considerably.

I guess if someone severed your femoral artery with a sword and then another guy ran by and gave you a papercut on your finger, you'd look at the doctor who stabilized your leg and then look at your finger and whine "I'm still bleeding doctor!"

banyon
08-23-2009, 11:16 AM
Here is what Obama told eveyrone to sell the stimulus...

http://michaelscomments.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/stimulus-vs-unemployment-july-dots3.gif

Now go piss in the wind

Here's a small fact for you that must come as some surprise:

Economic forecasts are rarely, if ever 100% accurate.

That doesn't change the theory or the concept behind the stimulus one whit, since the forecasted job loss could well have been in error as well.

petegz28
08-23-2009, 11:16 AM
The bottom line was that Obama didn't say he would create that many jobs and you either misremembered or distorted it.

Also, just because jobs are continuing to be lost, the rate of loss it the point. By all accounts that rate of job loss has slowed considerably.

I guess if someone severed your femoral artery with a sword and then another guy ran by and gave you a papercut on your finger, you'd look at the doctor who stabilized your leg and then look at your finger and whine "I'm still bleeding doctor!"

Sure, ..I gave you a picture of how wrong he was about the whole deal. Screape up your crap all you wish, I know when I am being bullshitted and you are trying the same bullshit he does. Perhaps you should give up lawyering and go sell used cars?

petegz28
08-23-2009, 11:16 AM
Here's a small fact for you that must come as some surprise:

Economic forecasts are rarely, if ever 100% accurate.

That doesn't change the theory or the concept behind the stimulus one whit, since the forecasted job loss could well have been in error as well.

bla bla bla......you hve a million and one excuses

Jenson71
08-23-2009, 11:17 AM
I will continue to take that as a no, the schools you refer too have yet to receive the money they counted on.

For example, Iowa has told Hawkeye Community College the funding from the stimulus they will receive. So they put that in the budget. Their president recently said that 2/3 of the ARRA will be put towards faculty and staff. What more do you want?

petegz28
08-23-2009, 11:18 AM
For example, Iowa has told Hawkeye Community College the funding from the stimulus they will receive. So they put that in the budget. Their president recently said that 2/3 of the ARRA will be put towards faculty and staff. What more do you want?

Show me the money!

banyon
08-23-2009, 11:18 AM
Sure, ..I gave you a picture of how wrong he was about the whole deal. Screape up your crap all you wish, I know when I am being bullshitted and you are trying the same bullshit he does. Perhaps you should give up lawyering and go sell used cars?

It appears that once again, you have eschewed rational argument in favor of insults and emotion. I guess we're done with the facts in this thread too.

petegz28
08-23-2009, 11:19 AM
It appears that once again, you have eschewed rational argument in favor of insults and emotion. I guess we're done with the facts in this thread too.

The fact is, Obama said one thing, and something else happened. More than once. I have to go fix a computer for a friend now. Have fun spinning amd what not.

banyon
08-23-2009, 11:20 AM
The fact is, Obama said one thing, and something else happened. More than once. I have to go fix a computer for a friend now. Have fun spinning amd what not.

No, the fact was Obama said one thing, you didn't listen very well and heard a second thing and then a third thing, consistent with the first thing happened.

Saul Good
08-23-2009, 11:22 AM
The bottom line was that Obama didn't say he would create that many jobs and you either misremembered or distorted it.

Also, just because jobs are continuing to be lost, the rate of loss it the point. By all accounts that rate of job loss has slowed considerably.

I guess if someone severed your femoral artery with a sword and then another guy ran by and gave you a papercut on your finger, you'd look at the doctor who stabilized your leg and then look at your finger and whine "I'm still bleeding doctor!"

True, but I do believe that there was a report made showing what the payroll numbers would look like under his plan. It was the report behind the 3,000,000 jobs claim.

banyon
08-23-2009, 11:23 AM
True, but I do believe that there was a report made showing what the payroll numbers would look like under his plan. It was the report behind the 3,000,000 jobs claim.

Ok, then I'd like to look at that.

Saul Good
08-23-2009, 11:23 AM
Ok, then I'd like to look at that.

You have posted it on here before.

banyon
08-23-2009, 11:27 AM
You have posted it on here before.

I assume it's this one then:

<object id="_ds_3486860" name="_ds_3486860" width="670" height="550" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" data="http://viewer.docstoc.com/"><param name="FlashVars" value="doc_id=3486860&mem_id=403469&doc_type=pdf&fullscreen=0" /><param name="movie" value="http://viewer.docstoc.com/"/><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /></object><br /><font size="1"><a href="http://www.docstoc.com/docs/3486860/Obama-Stimulus-Job-Impact-Report">Obama Stimulus Job Impact Report</a> - </font>

The table shows that we expect the plan to more than meet the goal of creating or saving 3 million jobs by 2010Q4. There are two important points to note, however: First, the likely scale of employment loss is extremely large. The U.S. economy has already lost nearly 2.6 million jobs since the business cycle peak in December 2007. In the absence of stimulus, the economy could lose another 3 to 4 million more. Thus, we are working to counter a potential total job loss of at least 5 million. As Figure 1 shows, even with the large prototypical package, the unemployment rate in 2010Q4 is predicted to be approximately 7.0%, which is well below the approximately 8.8% that would result in the absence of a plan.
1

Saul Good
08-23-2009, 11:34 AM
I assume it's this one then:

<object id="_ds_3486860" name="_ds_3486860" width="670" height="550" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" data="http://viewer.docstoc.com/"><param name="FlashVars" value="doc_id=3486860&mem_id=403469&doc_type=pdf&fullscreen=0" /><param name="movie" value="http://viewer.docstoc.com/"/><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /></object><br /><font size="1"><a href="http://www.docstoc.com/docs/3486860/Obama-Stimulus-Job-Impact-Report">Obama Stimulus Job Impact Report</a> - </font>

The table shows that we expect the plan to more than meet the goal of creating or saving 3 million jobs by 2010Q4. There are two important points to note, however: First, the likely scale of employment loss is extremely large. The U.S. economy has already lost nearly 2.6 million jobs since the business cycle peak in December 2007. In the absence of stimulus, the economy could lose another 3 to 4 million more. Thus, we are working to counter a potential total job loss of at least 5 million. As Figure 1 shows, even with the large prototypical package, the unemployment rate in 2010Q4 is predicted to be approximately 7.0%, which is well below the approximately 8.8% that would result in the absence of a plan.
1

That's the one.

http://otrans.3cdn.net/ee40602f9a7d8172b8_ozm6bt5oi.pdf

Jenson71
08-23-2009, 11:36 AM
Show me the money!

Do you think it's not in the budget?

RINGLEADER
08-23-2009, 11:45 AM
The economic theory they are operating on is that consumer confidence drives demand and demand drives production.

Under that theory, planning to distribute money at a future date is often enough to get people to make production plans in anticipation of that spending.

The theory has its flaws, but it answers your question and is at a minimum a logically consistent and tenable theory (though not necessarily ideal).


Hope.

Saul Good
08-23-2009, 11:48 AM
I think it's safe to say that Obama and his sycophants will be emphasizing the "save" portion a lot more than the "create" portion of "create or save 3,000,000 jobs" claim.

banyon
08-23-2009, 11:51 AM
I think it's safe to say that Obama and his sycophants will be emphasizing the "save" portion a lot more than the "create" portion of "create or save 3,000,000 jobs" claim.

Nah, if it happens by 4Q 2010 and it is 3 mil, then these alleged sycophants will certainly emphasize the former.

RINGLEADER
08-23-2009, 11:54 AM
I think it's safe to say that Obama and his sycophants will be emphasizing the "save" portion a lot more than the "create" portion of "create or save 3,000,000 jobs" claim.

It's laughable how the parameters used to determine job gains/losses changed the minute Obama came into office. Like the benefits he believes hide in his proposals the "jobs saved" number is a completely fabricated number with no real basis in reality. I think it stems from Obama having no real understanding of how business or the free market operates.

RINGLEADER
08-23-2009, 11:58 AM
Nah, if it happens by 4Q 2010 and it is 3 mil, then these alleged sycophants will certainly emphasize the former.

This is true.

Politically I think it would have served him much better, provided the economy starts to generate positive growth, to set a new starting point that he can call his own. If things start to turn around by next year he should use whatever month starts generating positive growth and build from there.

Some, myself included, believe his list of big government programs has had a depressing effect on business sentiment going forward. But politically if there is positive growth -- as you point out Banyon -- he will be in great shape to say "since February we have created a million jobs". And it will be a lot more truthful than the "jobs saved" silliness.

Of course, he needs those jobs to be created...

Saul Good
08-23-2009, 06:11 PM
Nah, if it happens by 4Q 2010 and it is 3 mil, then these alleged sycophants will certainly emphasize the former.

Like I said...

***SPRAYER
08-23-2009, 09:22 PM
Buy that bullshit? You were the one who got the quote wrong weren't you? You might want to check your own boots at the door.
Do you really think that if the economy had kept worsening from the March low, that more firms wouldn't have laid people off?

It's astounding how low you will grovel to rationalize B.O.'s BS, in spite of the fact THAT ANYBODY WITH AN IQ OVER 60 KNOWS THE GUY IS A LYING SACK O' SHIT!

BucEyedPea
08-23-2009, 09:42 PM
What I'm reading is that there could be another wave of layoffs.

Dave Lane
08-23-2009, 09:58 PM
and where are the 600,000 jobs? Let alone the 3 million?

Only 10 % of the money has been spent :P

KILLER_CLOWN
08-23-2009, 09:59 PM
Only 10 % of the money has been spent :P

So we should just wait until the economy collapses completely to spend the money and fix it?

Jenson71
08-23-2009, 10:19 PM
What I'm reading is that there could be another wave of layoffs.

What happened to the full mall?

HonestChieffan
08-24-2009, 06:18 AM
The economic theory they are operating on is that consumer confidence drives demand and demand drives production.

Under that theory, planning to distribute money at a future date is often enough to get people to make production plans in anticipation of that spending.

The theory has its flaws, but it answers your question and is at a minimum a logically consistent and tenable theory (though not necessarily ideal).


I wondered what "theory" they had. I was under the impression it was the theory of "Make Shit Up". Now I see its confidence we take to the store. Those moron unemployed folks with little or no income need to go to the store and be confident. Then the factory will roll out new stuff left and right.

Banyon, this is a classic. "planning to distribute money at a future date is often enough to get people to make production plans in anticipation of that spending".....I guess the idea of low inventory to maintain costs, JIT management of goods and inputs is now passe?

I better go order inventory and get it in place so I can meet the crush of confident callers I get.

The Mad Crapper
05-19-2010, 10:08 AM
Looks like another "fat finger" day on Wall Street

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=%5EDJI

LOCOChief
05-19-2010, 02:47 PM
Look at some of the early threads here from Jenson71 and Banyon in this thread, what a couple of tools.

ROYC75
05-19-2010, 03:50 PM
Obama is still lying to you..

I fixed this for you. From the day he first declared he was running until his last speech, it's STILL !

banyon
05-19-2010, 04:04 PM
Look at some of the early threads here from Jenson71 and Banyon in this thread, what a couple of tools.

Early threads in this thread? Is that like the interwebs?

Great comment guy. Tool indeed.

The Mad Crapper
05-21-2010, 10:18 AM
"Enjoy your mustard sandwiches, suckers!"

http://www.treehugger.com/Obama-Eats.jpg

LMAO