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Coach
08-24-2009, 10:48 AM
As some of you know that I bought a home this past March, and my backyard has a retaining wall, and the hill slopes up towards a cluster of trees/branches/dead shrubs, etc that I am in the process of trying to clear out to make it look nicer.

Here are two photos to explain it a little bit better.

http://photos-f-9.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs118.snc1/4861_119006927165_762562165_2868445_5577508_n.jpg

http://photos-g-9.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs118.snc1/4861_119006937165_762562165_2868446_3992080_n.jpg

While clearing that crap out, I noticed that there are some bees in the middle of the photo, just buzzing around. Needless to say that I got stung back in July, and that project was set aside for the basement work that I was doing, plus I was hoping they'll go away after a few months. Unfortunately, just a few minutes ago, I got stung again.

So, I am asking for advice/suggestions/tips on how to get rid of those fuckers?

penguinz
08-24-2009, 10:51 AM
Call in a bee keeper to take them off your hands. Or spray all kinds of poison to kill them.

Stinger
08-24-2009, 10:53 AM
I was going to suggest Antifreeze but I would think in this case Napalm would be better.

btlook1
08-24-2009, 10:54 AM
In my limited experience a bee keeper is probably going to charge you to come and get them. My brother had the same problem and I'm thinking they wanted like $150 or so to come and get them.
If it was me I would locate the nest/ hive go back after dark with some of that raid or whatever bee killer and get them all. They won't come after you after dark and will be all on the nest making it an easier safer job. Good luck.

seclark
08-24-2009, 10:54 AM
where's the hive? underground?
sec

rockymtnchief
08-24-2009, 10:55 AM
Not to sound like a tree-hugger....
Well, arguably, the honeybee, which is the species of bees that is disappearing, is the insect that is the most important for the human food chain. The reason being, that this species is the main pollinator of hundreds of types of food crops, nuts, flowers, vegetables and fruits. Hence, it was no surprise that many, including scientists, found the news reports of disappearing bees alarming. In fact, some of the articles even suggested that it could even result in widespread starvation. Some of them also quoted Albert Einstein, who is supposed to have said that if the world’s bees were to perish, humanity would too within four years, due to the absence of pollinators. Although it is highly improbable that Einstein had ever made this now-infamous statement about bees, however, Colony Collapse Disorder, or CCD, which is the phrase that has been coined for the disappearance of bees, is a phenomenon that is real. And, according to scientists, it does have the potential of impacting honey and food production dramatically. Hence, there are a number of theories being bandied about in an effort to fathom the reason for disappearing bees. Given below are some of the disappearing bee theories that are being debated about:
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/disappearing-bee-theories.html

Dartgod
08-24-2009, 10:56 AM
I don't know how to get rid of them, but maybe if you wear this next time you are working out there, they won't sting you?

http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/748/748989/saturday-night-live-season-1-20061204000845066.jpg

Consistent1
08-24-2009, 10:56 AM
Good luck with the bees. Need to get those suckers taken out because you can turn that yard into a pro level wiffle ball stadium.

Coach
08-24-2009, 10:56 AM
where's the hive? underground?
sec

That's the thing, I can't seem to locate it as of this point. I just know that the areas that I got stung was at the ankles and hip before. Today, though was at the elbow.

But it appears that they are swarming really close to the ground. So, I don't know if the hive is already on the ground or somewhere underground.

rockymtnchief
08-24-2009, 10:57 AM
Good luck with the bees. Need to get those suckers taken out because you can turn that yard into a pro level wiffle ball stadium.

:thumb:

I iz da wiffo ball shampeen!

Great idea!

POND_OF_RED
08-24-2009, 10:58 AM
Lather yourself in honey before you work back there as a peace offering.

Coach
08-24-2009, 10:59 AM
Not to sound like a tree-hugger....

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/disappearing-bee-theories.html

Nah, you're not being a tree-hugger. I don't have a problem with the bees if they would just leave my property alone. :D

seclark
08-24-2009, 10:59 AM
That's the thing, I can't seem to locate it as of this point. I just know that the areas that I got stung was at the ankles and hip before. Today, though was at the elbow.

But it appears that they are swarming really close to the ground. So, I don't know if the hive is already on the ground or somewhere underground.

http://www.bumblebee.org/faqNests.htm
sec

Bwana
08-24-2009, 11:00 AM
Do you know for sure which kind of "bee's" they are? Honey bee's, hornet's, wasps? Honey bee's are generally laid back and won't come after you, but other kinds of so called bee's will.

Coach
08-24-2009, 11:02 AM
Do you know for sure which kind of "bee's" they are? Honey bee's, hornet's, wasps? Honey bee's are generally laid back and won't come after you, but other kinds of so called bee's will.

Well, I really can't ID it accurately, but I do know that they are small as a pea size, and they do have the black and yellow markings. So it is probably a honeybee or a bumble bee, something similar to it.

I just know that it's not a wasp, that's for sure.

vailpass
08-24-2009, 11:05 AM
You could look for a local bee-keeper and see if they are interested in re-locating the hive. Win-win if it works.

gblowfish
08-24-2009, 11:07 AM
Honey bees are good for the environment, so its a shame to whack them. But if you must, hire a professional. Usually they have to whack them with a powdered chemical pesticide, and do it at night. You have to get the queen to really eliminate the hive. They may be inside a hollow part of a tree.

MOhillbilly
08-24-2009, 11:07 AM
http://www.controlsolutionsinc.com/data/products/other/95_Stock-Tox%20X%20Label.pdf

in a 2 gal. sprayer mix 3/4 cup dish soap and twice the suggested poison.

Iowanian
08-24-2009, 11:07 AM
What kind are they? Are they in the ground?

Take a coffee can with gas...throw on the nest. Run.

Honey bees are more likely to have a hive in a hollow tree or in a wall cavity of the building. If they're in the ground, I'll wager they are yellow jackets or Bumble bees.

Lumpy
08-24-2009, 11:08 AM
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j275/McLumpy78/Funny%20Stuff/Bees.jpg

Coach
08-24-2009, 11:12 AM
Honey bees are good for the environment, so its a shame to whack them. But if you must, hire a professional. Usually they have to whack them with a powdered chemical pesticide, and do it at night. You have to get the queen to really eliminate the hive. They may be inside a hollow part of a tree.

I know they are good for the environment, but I just need them to "relocate" if possible without whacking them, except if they are gonna sting me, then I'm gonna have to retaliate one way or another.

After looking the photos online, I'm almost sure that it's a Bumblebee and not a honeybee, but I will see if I can find one that is dead and get a better positive ID.

Coach
08-24-2009, 11:14 AM
What kind are they? Are they in the ground?

Take a coffee can with gas...throw on the nest. Run.

Honey bees are more likely to have a hive in a hollow tree or in a wall cavity of the building. If they're in the ground, I'll wager they are yellow jackets or Bumble bees.

That's what I'm thinking as well after doing some researching on here, combined with the bees that are out there are swarming near or on the ground.

Iowanian
08-24-2009, 11:15 AM
It makes more sense that it is bumble bees or yellow jackets in the ground. I've run over and driven through ALOT of nests of those over the years...mowing or raking hay. yellow jackets are angry little bastards and sting quickly, and bumblebees like to be pissed off too. They'll sting you for getting too close to the nest....honey bees don't.

Rounding the turn to drive through the cloud of angry bees you KNOW is awaiting you, from the open air seat of an M Farmall with is longer than the walk to the house with a switch for the whippin' you know is coming.


Wait until dark and go dump a bucket of soapy water and a gallon of gas in the area with the holes in the ground. That'll get most of them.

Bwana
08-24-2009, 11:16 AM
That's the thing, I can't seem to locate it as of this point. I just know that the areas that I got stung was at the ankles and hip before. Today, though was at the elbow.

But it appears that they are swarming really close to the ground. So, I don't know if the hive is already on the ground or somewhere underground.
<O:p
Sounds like yellow jackets, or hornets to me. Walk slow, find hole, wait until after dark, dump a bunch of gas in hole. The fumes will kill them off. <O:p
<O:p
I had an experience several years ago that was like something straight out of a horror movie. I was being the "good son" and went over to my parents house to trim their hedge (8-9 foot hedge) while they were on vacation. It was an early fall cold morning and I was going up and down a ladder, knocking off five to six feet at a time. After about half an hour, I look down and my pants are alive. They were covered with wasps from near my feet, up to just below my waist! The little bastards were advancing up my leg toward my head on a slow crawl. <O:p
<O:p
I jumped off the ladder, tore off my boots and pants and gave them a toss. None of the little bastards had made it past my waist at that point. Here I am standing in my parent’s backyard in my shirt and boxers. I gathered my self, went over and shook the shit out of my pants, put them back on, and went on the hunt. I found a hole with hundreds of wasps crawling out of a hole, just below the hedge. The only thing that saved me that day, was the fact it was very cool and they were to sluggish to fly. I want over to the folks shed, grabbed two gallons of gas, slowly dumped it into the hole and fired it up. End of wasp problem. I came out of that with zero stings. If it would have been ten degrees warmer, I would have been horsed!<O:p

Slainte
08-24-2009, 11:16 AM
[

PastorMikH
08-24-2009, 11:21 AM
In my limited experience a bee keeper is probably going to charge you to come and get them. My brother had the same problem and I'm thinking they wanted like $150 or so to come and get them.



Really??? My grandfather had a pretty big honey operation. In fact, at one time, if they counted his hives, his friend's hives, and their partnership hives, they were ranked in the top 10 in honey production in the entire midwest. He used to go get bee swarms all the time for free. Some times he was able to get them simply by putting a hive box with frames of honey already in it close to the swarm and they would take up residence, then he'd close the hive and move it.

I'd suggest going to the local grocery store or health food store and looking at the bottles of honey they have for sale. A lot of local producers will sell at these stores and you can get their address and phone numbers off the bottles of honey. Call around and you might find one that will come get them for free.

You could also try building a fire up wind of them an see if the smoke will cause them to re-locate. Bees hate smoke and will try to avoid it.

'Course you could just leave them. If you are working in the area wear a hat to keep them out of your hair and DON'T PANIC when they are around you. Often times we used to work bees without any protection, not even a hat/veil. We just took our time and used the smoker. Once cooler weather gets here, you should be able to clean up the area without any trouble from them at all.

Coach
08-24-2009, 11:25 AM
It makes more sense that it is bumble bees or yellow jackets in the ground. I've run over and driven through ALOT of nests of those over the years...mowing or raking hay. yellow jackets are angry little bastards and sting quickly, and bumblebees like to be pissed off too. They'll sting you for getting too close to the nest....honey bees don't.

Rounding the turn to drive through the cloud of angry bees you KNOW is awaiting you, from the open air seat of an M Farmall with is longer than the walk to the house with a switch for the whippin' you know is coming.

Wait until dark and go dump a bucket of soapy water and a gallon of gas in the area with the holes in the ground. That'll get most of them.

I'm almost certain that it's a bumble bee, since it was a small sized bee (About a pea size, give or take, not really that big) and as you mentioned that it's in or on the ground.

I have thought about suspending my outside work until winter time, where it's really cold.

seclark
08-24-2009, 11:27 AM
years ago, i had a friend who's dog had a litter of pups out in an old shed. we heard a hell of a commotion and ran out to check on them. the pups had crawled under an old wooden pallet and gotten into a bumble bee nest. the poor pups were covered w/stinging bees. i ran in and started grabbing pups, slapping bees off of them. the mother dog was going crazy and f@cking bit me twice while i was knocking bees off the pups, getting stung myself.

don't know what was worse...beating puppies, getting stung myself, or dog bit from a confused bitch.

sec

MOhillbilly
08-24-2009, 11:28 AM
the shit i posted coach will kill the shit out of em.

PastorMikH
08-24-2009, 11:29 AM
I know they are good for the environment, but I just need them to "relocate" if possible without whacking them, except if they are gonna sting me, then I'm gonna have to retaliate one way or another.

After looking the photos online, I'm almost sure that it's a Bumblebee and not a honeybee, but I will see if I can find one that is dead and get a better positive ID.



Bumble bees - different scenario. Find where they are coming out and pour gasoline down the hole. Or, I guess you could go get the appropriate environmentally safe bug killer from the local farm store.

Honey bees are about the size of a bean out of a can of pork and beans. A bumble bee is about this size of a large kidney bean. Also Bumble bees are a brighter yellow, honey bees are about the same shade of yellow as honey when it is held to the light.

You can also tell the difference by catching one. If it stings you once and leaves a barbed stinger in you with a trail of guts, that's a honey bee. If it stings you over and over, that's a bumble bee.:)

Coach
08-24-2009, 11:29 AM
Really??? My grandfather had a pretty big honey operation. In fact, at one time, if they counted his hives, his friend's hives, and their partnership hives, they were ranked in the top 10 in honey production in the entire midwest. He used to go get bee swarms all the time for free. Some times he was able to get them simply by putting a hive box with frames of honey already in it close to the swarm and they would take up residence, then he'd close the hive and move it.

I'd suggest going to the local grocery store or health food store and looking at the bottles of honey they have for sale. A lot of local producers will sell at these stores and you can get their address and phone numbers off the bottles of honey. Call around and you might find one that will come get them for free.

You could also try building a fire up wind of them an see if the smoke will cause them to re-locate. Bees hate smoke and will try to avoid it.

'Course you could just leave them. If you are working in the area wear a hat to keep them out of your hair and DON'T PANIC when they are around you. Often times we used to work bees without any protection, not even a hat/veil. We just took our time and used the smoker. Once cooler weather gets here, you should be able to clean up the area without any trouble from them at all.

Yeah, I always wear a hat when I'm outside, and a long sleeved shirt and jeans whenever I am near the area where they are located, to give me some protection. But even before I found out that I had a bee problem, I still wore the long sleeves, jeans, and cap to protect myself from posion ivy that was there, before I managed to get rid 3/4ths of them out of there.

My wife, one time, wore her tank top and shorts while raking that area. I told her that she was gonna be sorry if she doesn't protect herself back out there. Needless to say that she got stung twice on the arm awhile back. The stings that I got hurt a little bit, but it isn't like agonizing pain or anything, you know? Helps alot when I put some ice on the sting area and keep it cool.

As my earlier post to Iowanian, I may just suspend the outside work until winter when it's really cold. I'm hoping that they won't be around during the cold weather.

Phobia
08-24-2009, 11:31 AM
All I can say is that my life is pretty plain. I like watchin' the puddles gather rain.

Skip Towne
08-24-2009, 11:31 AM
Don't tangle with red wasps. I had one sting me on the wrist and my arm swelled up clear to my elbow. Herm said it was swoll.

Iowanian
08-24-2009, 11:33 AM
All I can do is just pour some tea for two
and speak my point of view
but its not sane
I just want someone to save me

PastorMikH
08-24-2009, 11:35 AM
My grandfather used to say that the venom from bee stings helped prevent arthritis. I'm not sure about that, but I do know he never had much problem with arthritis in his hands.

Brock
08-24-2009, 11:37 AM
Not an aggressive species, I'd just leave them alone.

ChiefButthurt
08-24-2009, 11:41 AM
Many organizations will come out free and remove the hive if possible....for FREE. An exterminator will charge you. I had a bee hive forming on a tree branch about four years ago, called a bee hive orgainization out of the phone book, they were there in 2 hours...no charge. I think I could have sold that sucker.

ChiefButthurt
08-24-2009, 11:45 AM
If you must kill them....use this stuff. Apicide, works better than all other stuff.

DJ's left nut
08-24-2009, 11:49 AM
I'll echo the sentiments of a few folks already - try to find a bee-keeper that will move them reasonably.

Bumble bees are incredibly useful for all sorts of environmental mechanisms and they're becoming more and more rare.

Wasps? Spray 'em with gasoline and set em alight for all I care, but it sure would be great if you could figure out a way to move those bees without knocking them off.

Demonpenz
08-24-2009, 11:51 AM
my dad hit a wasps nest with a lawn mower. I came in the house he was past out still getting stung. He ruptured his achelles running away (never got that fixed still has no achelles or calf muscle.

Iowanian
08-24-2009, 11:58 AM
There are a couple of posters on this site that I think should give themselves a goatse, plop down hole-hole on the hive and have you whack the ground with a stick.

Skip Towne
08-24-2009, 12:01 PM
I'll echo the sentiments of a few folks already - try to find a bee-keeper that will move them reasonably.

Bumble bees are incredibly useful for all sorts of environmental mechanisms and they're becoming more and more rare.

Wasps? Spray 'em with gasoline and set em alight for all I care, but it sure would be great if you could figure out a way to move those bees without knocking them off.

If you spray a wasp with gasoline you don't need to light it. They go right down

Bwana
08-24-2009, 12:07 PM
If you spray a wasp with gasoline you don't need to light it. They go right down

Brake cleaner will also drop them out of the air chop chop.

Demonpenz
08-24-2009, 12:09 PM
surprised no one has posted the link with that bees nest under the swingset and the guy lighting a grill on fire. There was a giant bees nest at the K earlier in the year they used some sort of vacuum to get rid of them without killing them

CoMoChief
08-24-2009, 12:54 PM
First of all what you need to do is buy a life sized bee costume.

Then put the costume on and head back out there. The bees will think you are one of them when you approach them so they shouldn't attack you.

Make sure you are fluent in Bee language. This is important in case they try to take up a conversation with you. It would be wise for you to know the area's plants and flowers, what are good pollen spots.

Whatever YOU DO......DO NOT tell them or act/make it obvious that you are allergic to Pollen, that would immediately blow your cover and many stings from many bees would await. Think of Independence Day the movie where they take that old ship the CIA found in the 70's and dock it on the mother ship. I still don't know if there's a bigger hardass in American than Jeff Goldblum. My guess would be that there isn't one.


Then what you need to do is strap a bomb to your chest, start talking in tongue, make some upsurd war cries to Allah then charge towards to the Bee area and push the buttom. no more bees.

Buck
08-24-2009, 12:57 PM
If there was ever a time to do this, its now.

Kill it with fire.

tooge
08-24-2009, 01:09 PM
Go over to the hive. Slather your pecker in honey. If they sting your pecker, run like hell and kill em with fire. If not, they are nice bees.

DJ's left nut
08-24-2009, 01:16 PM
If you spray a wasp with gasoline you don't need to light it. They go right down

True, but what the hell's the fun in that?

Get smoked by a next of ground wasps and there's no end to the torment you'll inflict on asswipe wasps.

Kill them with fire.

DJ's left nut
08-24-2009, 01:16 PM
If there was ever a time to do this, its now.

Kill it with fire.

AAAAHHHH!!

~!@#$ YOU!

Coach
08-24-2009, 01:24 PM
First of all what you need to do is buy a life sized bee costume.

Then put the costume on and head back out there. The bees will think you are one of them when you approach them so they shouldn't attack you.

Make sure you are fluent in Bee language. This is important in case they try to take up a conversation with you. It would be wise for you to know the area's plants and flowers, what are good pollen spots.

Whatever YOU DO......DO NOT tell them or act/make it obvious that you are allergic to Pollen, that would immediately blow your cover and many stings from many bees would await. Think of Independence Day the movie where they take that old ship the CIA found in the 70's and dock it on the mother ship. I still don't know if there's a bigger hardass in American than Jeff Goldblum. My guess would be that there isn't one.


Then what you need to do is strap a bomb to your chest, start talking in tongue, make some upsurd war cries to Allah then charge towards to the Bee area and push the buttom. no more bees.

Well, I could go towards an easier alternative and buy me a radioactive suit and wear that and work on the yard, but I don't think the neighbors would feel too comfortable seeing a guy in a radioactive suit.

Dartgod
08-24-2009, 01:55 PM
First of all what you need to do is buy a life sized bee costume.

Then put the costume on and head back out there. The bees will think you are one of them when you approach them so they shouldn't attack you.
Ahem...

I don't know how to get rid of them, but maybe if you wear this next time you are working out there, they won't sting you?

http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/748/748989/saturday-night-live-season-1-20061204000845066.jpg

Demonpenz
08-24-2009, 01:58 PM
looks like this thread has created alot of buzz

Amnorix
08-24-2009, 02:13 PM
I know they are good for the environment, but I just need them to "relocate" if possible without whacking them, except if they are gonna sting me, then I'm gonna have to retaliate one way or another.

After looking the photos online, I'm almost sure that it's a Bumblebee and not a honeybee, but I will see if I can find one that is dead and get a better positive ID.

I don't know how they differ across the country, but around here, bumble bees are much fatter/rounder, and overall bigger. Generally, they are not aggressive, and are not all that incredibly numerous in a small area.

Yellow jackets are smaller than bumble bees, but considerably meaner than either bumble bees or honey bees.

The world is going through a really serious and surprising shortage of pollinators, especially including honey bees, so it's a shame to whack 'em if you don't have to, especially if you have any kind of garden at all.

Amnorix
08-24-2009, 02:16 PM
I saw a very interesting show on this a month or two ago. "Colony Collapse Disorder", they're calling it.

And it's happening around the world, and nobody is quite sure why.

something like 25% of all bees just up and disappeared over a 2 or so year period. That's billions of bees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_collapse_disorder

B_Ambuehl
08-24-2009, 02:17 PM
Post your situation and location on the following forum and you'll no doubt find someone who will be more then happy to come and take them off your hands free of charge:

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php

There are a lot of beekeepers in Missouri.

Demonpenz
08-24-2009, 02:19 PM
stings, dont it.

sort of.....but I don't want to drone on

Chief Chief
08-24-2009, 02:20 PM
I thought this thread was about celebrity Bees, like Bee Arthur and Aunt Bee...

Demonpenz
08-24-2009, 02:22 PM
I thought this thread was about celebrity Bees, like Bee Arthur and Aunt Bee...

or trying to change out your susan bee anthony coins

Demonpenz
08-24-2009, 02:22 PM
trying to download huey lewis iconic hit hip to bee square

DeezNutz
08-24-2009, 02:28 PM
It nailed me, too, earlier today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lynpiv7pofM

OnTheWarpath58
08-24-2009, 02:40 PM
Are the bees in question "Supercool Bees"?

Phobia
08-24-2009, 02:42 PM
I don't know about you but I would accept whatever advice Stinger posted on this thread.

Iowanian
08-24-2009, 02:43 PM
Stinger's advice is the bees knees.

Brock
08-24-2009, 02:44 PM
Post your situation and location on the following forum and you'll no doubt find someone who will be more then happy to come and take them off your hands free of charge:

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php

There are a lot of beekeepers in Missouri.

They're not honeybees, dumbass.

Hog Farmer
08-24-2009, 02:46 PM
I saw a very interesting show on this a month or two ago. "Colony Collapse Disorder", they're calling it.

And it's happening around the world, and nobody is quite sure why.

something like 25% of all bees just up and disappeared over a 2 or so year period. That's billions of bees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_collapse_disorder


Al Qaeda has been destroying the bee populations around the world in order to destroy our food supply. Its true.

Hog Farmer
08-24-2009, 02:48 PM
my dad hit a wasps nest with a lawn mower. I came in the house he was past out still getting stung. He ruptured his achelles running away (never got that fixed still has no achelles or calf muscle.

ROFL


Sorry!

tooge
08-24-2009, 02:48 PM
you guys bee crackin me up

Hog Farmer
08-24-2009, 02:59 PM
Actually coach, If you had any BALLS you'd grab a cold beer and a tennis racket and go pinging.

Sofa King
08-24-2009, 03:14 PM
YOUR FIREARMS ARE USELESS AGAINST THEM!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeMM4bxGsvk





the quality is terrible, but i think i got my point across..

Demonpenz
08-24-2009, 03:15 PM
quit bumblefucking around

OnTheWarpath58
08-24-2009, 03:20 PM
YOUR FIREARMS ARE USELESS AGAINST THEM!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeMM4bxGsvk





the quality is terrible, but i think i got my point across..

LMAO

That scene was the first thing I thought of when I saw the thread title.

THEY'RE RIPPING MY FLESH OFF!

bevischief
08-24-2009, 06:45 PM
napalm at night.
:fire:

PastorMikH
08-24-2009, 07:06 PM
Actually coach, If you had any BALLS you'd grab a cold beer and a tennis racket and go pinging.


LMAO LMAO

PastorMikH
08-24-2009, 07:08 PM
YOUR FIREARMS ARE USELESS AGAINST THEM!!!!!




I know some guys (grown men - older grown men actually) that would set up with pellet guns and try to shoot them one by one when they land - and have a lot of fun while they are at it.