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John_Wayne
08-24-2009, 12:05 PM
...... because the lineman we have on the roster now aren't offensive enough!




Dolphins | Trade Alleman, Ndukwe to Chiefs
Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:09:40 -0700
Armando Salguero, of the Miami Herald, reports the Miami Dolphins (http://www.kffl.com/team/22/nfl) have traded OG Andy Alleman (http://www.kffl.com/player/16316/nfl) to the Kansas City Chiefs (http://www.kffl.com/team/21/nfl) for an undisclosed late-round draft pick in 2010, according to a league source. The trade also involves sending OG Ike Ndukwe (http://www.kffl.com/player/12007/nfl) to the Chiefs, according to Jeff Darlington, of the Miami Herald.

Rain Man
08-24-2009, 12:08 PM
If you have an infinite number of guards typing on an infinite number of typewriters, one of them will type "Will Shields".

wild1
08-24-2009, 12:11 PM
Good. I'm pleased that they realize they need to protect their investment in Cassel.

salame
08-24-2009, 12:12 PM
now they only need to draft 6 o-lineman next year

alpha_omega
08-24-2009, 12:12 PM
At least they are trying to do something instead of sitting on their hands.

Rooster
08-24-2009, 12:13 PM
At least they are trying to do something instead of sitting on their hands.

Or calling Turley. :banghead:

aturnis
08-24-2009, 12:13 PM
GoChiefs, what is the site with all of the Olineman's blocking stats? My old computer took a shit and I lost it. Since then, I've been lost w/o it.

wild1
08-24-2009, 12:14 PM
The line was in just as bad of shape last year. What did Carl and Herm do about it?

Count Zarth
08-24-2009, 12:15 PM
GoChiefs, what is the site with all of the Olineman's blocking stats? My old computer took a shit and I lost it. Since then, I've been lost w/o it.

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=8342&team=15

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=7683&team=15

Too many penalties.

Chiefnj2
08-24-2009, 12:18 PM
http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=8342&team=15

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=7683&team=15

Too many penalties.

I can deal with 4 false starts with only 1 sack given up.

aturnis
08-24-2009, 12:41 PM
Thanks GC.

Thig Lyfe
08-24-2009, 12:45 PM
BRING BACK ROAF

Rain Man
08-24-2009, 12:49 PM
BRING BACK ROAF


I dunno. There has to be some reason why no other team has picked him up.

OctoberFart
08-24-2009, 12:56 PM
Did WPI officially say "The Deal is Done?"

MoreLemonPledge
08-24-2009, 01:31 PM
My sources tell me the compensation is Dwayne Bowe. That's why they released Wilford today.

/WPI

Count Zarth
08-24-2009, 01:33 PM
Did WPI officially say "The Deal is Done?"

Actually, the news was broken on our website.

JD10367
08-24-2009, 01:35 PM
Wait. Two guards for a late-round pick? That makes no sense. Unless Miami was on crack at the time of the deal.

JuicesFlowing
08-24-2009, 01:36 PM
When the someone pushes our O-line around, our Front Office pushes back!

DaneMcCloud
08-24-2009, 01:39 PM
Wait. Two guards for a late-round pick? That makes no sense. Unless Miami was on crack at the time of the deal.

Of course it makes sense.

They were going to be cut. The Chiefs gave them compensation so that both players wouldn't be picked up by Detroit or St. Louis, both of which have offensive line and depth issues.

KCUnited
08-24-2009, 01:42 PM
They were going to be cut.

That's speculation.

Nightfyre
08-24-2009, 01:44 PM
Actually, the news was broken on our website.

Really? Because the article I read sourced the miami herald.
Posted via Mobile Device

DaneMcCloud
08-24-2009, 01:49 PM
That's speculation.

Uh, not it's not.

They were running with the third team. Miami has a ton of depth. It's not like they gave up first day picks. They probably gave up a 7th 2011.

DeezNutz
08-24-2009, 01:50 PM
91% complete. /Herm/

KCUnited
08-24-2009, 01:54 PM
Uh, not it's not.

They were running with the third team. Miami has a ton of depth. It's not like they gave up first day picks. They probably gave up a 7th 2011.
Could be, but I'll take the word of the Dolphin camp reporter Petro had on that they were in no danger of not making the team until a source with further information provides info stating otherwise.

MahiMike
08-24-2009, 02:28 PM
Can we play both at the same time and only use 2 WR's?

JD10367
08-24-2009, 02:31 PM
Of course it makes sense.

They were going to be cut. The Chiefs gave them compensation so that both players wouldn't be picked up by Detroit or St. Louis, both of which have offensive line and depth issues.

I've just never seen TWO players traded for one late-round pick. I mean, you really have to suck to be traded for a late-round pick, so for two guys to be traded for one late-rounder is basically saying, "Look, by league rules, we couldn't ask the Chiefs for a twelve-pack of jocks and a case of Gatorade..." :D

JD10367
08-24-2009, 02:33 PM
Can we play both at the same time and only use 2 WR's?

Sure. The "Max Max Max Protect" offense: five O-linemen, an O-lineman as TE, and another O-lineman as FB. Cassel has easy choices: hand it to LJ, or throw it to Bowe or Toomer. Of course, both will be triple-covered, so he's really gonna have to thread the needle... :)

Chiefnj2
08-24-2009, 02:34 PM
Per KCChiefs depth chart they are listed as backups for the guard positions.

nstygma
08-24-2009, 02:36 PM
I've just never seen TWO players traded for one late-round pick. well, Carl is a part of the Dolphins organization now, right? makes sense he would bring a touch of business sense to them

JD10367
08-24-2009, 02:40 PM
well, Carl is a part of the Dolphins organization now, right? makes sense he would bring a touch of business sense to them

I guess it's a good idea for both parties. The Chiefs avoid having to wait and see if the guys clear waivers; the Fins get something of value for two guys they would have otherwise cut. If neither works out, big deal; a 6th or 7th round pick is chump change to a wheeler-dealer like Pioli.

DTLB58
08-24-2009, 02:42 PM
Actually, the news was broken on our website.


Chiefs acquired OGs Ikechuku Ndukwe and Andy Alleman from the Dolphins in exchange for an undisclosed draft pick in 2010.

It must have been an interesting Sunday night dinner for Bill Parcells and his son-in-law, Chiefs GM Scott Pioli. Ndukwe could start at right guard for the Chiefs, and Alleman may be pushed to center where he'd be an upgrade on Rudy Niswanger and Eric Ghiaciuc. The Dolphins are obviously happy with the progress of guards Donald Thomas and Shawn Murphy. Aug. 24 - 12:34 pm et
Source: Armando Salguero on Twitter

One of your's? ROFL......Seroiusly though never heard of the guy. I'm assuming a south Floridian reporter :D Yup, He is a Miami Herald reporter.

DaneMcCloud
08-24-2009, 02:43 PM
Could be, but I'll take the word of the Dolphin camp reporter Petro had on that they were in no danger of not making the team until a source with further information provides info stating otherwise.

Dude, what is that you don't understand about this trade?

If the Dolphins waived those guys, Detroit & St. Louis more than likely would have claimed one or both, leaving the Chiefs shit out of luck.

By making a late-round trade, the Chiefs have insured that they will be on their roster.

What about that don't you get?

KCDC
08-24-2009, 02:50 PM
I think Dane is correct. If the Fins were intending to keep them, they would have demanded more. Tuna helps his son-in-law and gets a 6th round pick in 2010 for guys most likely to be cut (barring last minute injuries to Miami's linemen). It is a win-win.

Even if these guys don't stick with us, it was worth a late rounder to see how they play with us, and to pressure Goff and our centers to take their game up a notch from "pathetic" to just "substandard."

rad
08-24-2009, 02:54 PM
I can deal with 4 false starts with only 1 sack given up.

Not in 4 games started. That's horrible. The other guy has 6 penalties, but that's in 15 games started. That I can live with.

Halfcan
08-24-2009, 02:54 PM
I think Dane is correct. If the Fins were intending to keep them, they would have demanded more. Tuna helps his son-in-law and gets a 6th round pick in 2010 for guys most likely to be cut (barring last minute injuries to Miami's linemen). It is a win-win.

Even if these guys don't stick with us, it was worth a late rounder to see how they play with us, and to pressure Goff and our centers to take their game up a notch from "pathetic" to just "substandard."

great post! :clap:

penguinz
08-24-2009, 02:57 PM
Actually, the news was broken on our website.BS

Raised On Riots
08-24-2009, 03:06 PM
Did WPI officially say "The Deal is Done?"

You know, I don't necessarily have a lot of love for WIPE Illustrated, but nothing they could ever do will EVER match the utter spock-inducing catatonia you inspire every time you make the above post.

Hint: It was a funny group thing in February, today not so much.

boogblaster
08-24-2009, 03:07 PM
..... we need o-line help whoever it is .....

Chocolate Hog
08-24-2009, 03:08 PM
You know, I don't necessarily have a lot of love for WIPE Illustrated, but nothing they could ever do will EVER match the utter spock-inducing catatonia you inspire every time you make the above post.

Hint: It was a funny group thing in February, today not so much.

That guy is a moron he can bash WIPE all he wants but the fact is Oaklands o-line is no better then the Chiefs.

Shox
08-24-2009, 03:09 PM
Ndukwe could acutally be a nice improvement. Started 15 games and only allowed 1 sack!!!! Goff, Mcsackintosh and the boys allow more assaults on our QBs in one quarter.

michaelj_58
08-24-2009, 03:11 PM
not bowe

cdcox
08-24-2009, 03:13 PM
This reminds me of when the Broncos signed the whole Browns DL. Hope this turns out better.

Count Zarth
08-24-2009, 03:14 PM
BS

Sorry bro. It was.

WPI forever.

Chocolate Hog
08-24-2009, 03:14 PM
Anyone know what the Chiefs traded? A 6th or 7th round pick is a good deal.

Raised On Riots
08-24-2009, 03:20 PM
Sorry bro. It was.

WPI forever.

ROFL

mlyonsd
08-24-2009, 03:21 PM
After the first two games probably the biggest complaint on CP was the OL.

As if on queue, Pioli proves he see's the same thing and makes an attempt to fix it. I'm liking the guy more all the time.

Chocolate Hog
08-24-2009, 03:25 PM
After the first two games probably the biggest complaint on CP was the OL.

As if on queue, Pioli proves he see's the same thing and makes an attempt to fix it. I'm liking the guy more all the time.

Carl tried to fix the defense for 10 years. Its nice there trying but enough trying they better start doing.

mlyonsd
08-24-2009, 03:29 PM
Carl tried to fix the defense for 10 years. Its nice there trying but enough trying they better start doing.

I'm probably wrong but I don't remember Carl making trades this late in pre-season. In no way am I saying these guys will for sure work out, I just like the fact Pioli is willing to keep chipping away.

Sure-Oz
08-24-2009, 03:30 PM
Seems like that some think that one will start at right guard for us and the other could be center depth

not bad imo

Mecca
08-24-2009, 03:32 PM
Seems like that some think that one will start at right guard for us and the other could be center depth

not bad imo

Being center depth on this team would mean you blow cause we have horrible centers.

chiefzilla1501
08-24-2009, 03:44 PM
Being center depth on this team would mean you blow cause we have horrible centers.

Goff could do okay at the position. Maybe this is a move that suggests that he needs to move over.

DenverChief
08-24-2009, 03:47 PM
:)
New Kansas City Chiefs general manager Scott Pioli kept it in the family as he tried to upgrade the Chiefs' offensive line.

Pioli acquired two offensive linemen from the Miami Dolphins for an undisclosed selection in the 2010 draft. The Dolphins are run by Bill Parcells, who is Pioli's father-in-law.

The Chiefs acquired guard/tackle Ike Ndukwe and guard/center Andy Alleman. Ndukwe is expected to push for a starting spot at guard or tackle.

He was a starting guard for the Dolphins last season but was moved to tackle this year.

Alleman is expected to provide interior line depth. Alleman is a third-year player from Akron. He started four games last season for Miami.

The Chiefs' offensive line has been a work in progress since the offseason and it has been somewhat shaky this preseason. Thus, the pursuit for stability led to this trade.

Bill Williamson covers the AFC West for ESPN.com.

Raised On Riots
08-24-2009, 03:51 PM
Carl would be sitting on his ass through all of this. Who wants to watch the wire for potential upgrades when you can go to Plaza III and kill a bottle of wine from your special reserve?

Count Zarth
08-24-2009, 03:54 PM
GEE BILL FINALLY

Chocolate Hog
08-24-2009, 03:58 PM
Carl would be sitting on his ass through all of this. Who wants to watch the wire for potential upgrades when you can go to Plaza III and kill a bottle of wine from your special reserve?

Plaza III sucks.

Raised On Riots
08-24-2009, 04:03 PM
Plaza III sucks.

So does Carl; match made in Herpes.

Chocolate Hog
08-24-2009, 04:04 PM
So does Carl; match made in Herpes.

I saw his wine sellar at Mortons and I wanted to piss on it.

DaneMcCloud
08-24-2009, 04:05 PM
The Chiefs offensive line has been somewhat shaky?

Wha?

Bane
08-24-2009, 04:06 PM
So does Carl; match made in Herpes.

:clap: NICE!!!!ROFL

CanadianChief
08-24-2009, 04:08 PM
I know someone mentioned Levi Jones in a prior post. What's the deal with him? Is he too washed up to start at right tackle for us? Is he priced too high?

HemiEd
08-24-2009, 04:09 PM
Good. I'm pleased that they realize they need to protect their investment in Cassel.The Chiefs have had such great success with McIntosh, I can see why they would want more Miami rejects.

the Talking Can
08-24-2009, 04:12 PM
Carl tried to fix the defense for 10 years. Its nice there trying but enough trying they better start doing.

the new regime hasn't played a single regular season game....think we can give them at least two games to make magic ponies appear in arrowhead?

rad
08-24-2009, 04:20 PM
The Chiefs offensive line has been somewhat shaky?

Wha?

Media folks aren't allowed to say things like "chugs cock", so they have to use tact.

Raised On Riots
08-24-2009, 04:21 PM
I saw his wine sellar at Mortons and I wanted to piss on it.

LMAO

OnTheWarpath58
08-24-2009, 04:21 PM
Media folks aren't allowed to say things like "chugs cock", so they have to use tact.

LMAO

Chocolate Hog
08-24-2009, 04:27 PM
the new regime hasn't played a single regular season game....think we can give them at least two games to make magic ponies appear in arrowhead?

Yea and thats where the starting doing comment applies.

Count Zarth
08-24-2009, 04:29 PM
Media folks aren't allowed to say things like "chugs cock", so they have to use tact.

Dude, I know. Do you know how much it irritates me that I can't use such phrases? I mean, come on. Get with the times.

If more newspapers put phrases like "chugs cock" in print, they wouldn't be dying off.

TEX
08-24-2009, 05:12 PM
After the first two games probably the biggest complaint on CP was the OL.

As if on queue, Pioli proves he see's the same thing and makes an attempt to fix it. I'm liking the guy more all the time.

Yep. At least we didn't have to hear how the guys we have will be fine and how the coaches know more. Pioli and Haley saw how bad the OL BLOWS and are trying to do something about it.

bevischief
08-24-2009, 05:15 PM
the new regime hasn't played a single regular season game....think we can give them at least two games to make magic ponies appear in arrowhead?

I am waiting for the unicorns...

ROFL

bishop_74
08-24-2009, 05:52 PM
Media folks aren't allowed to say things like "chugs cock", so they have to use tact.

I might use that the next time my wife forces me to go to a wedding. That's primo right there.

aturnis
08-24-2009, 06:38 PM
I think Dane is correct. If the Fins were intending to keep them, they would have demanded more. Tuna helps his son-in-law and gets a 6th round pick in 2010 for guys most likely to be cut (barring last minute injuries to Miami's linemen). It is a win-win.

Even if these guys don't stick with us, it was worth a late rounder to see how they play with us, and to pressure Goff and our centers to take their game up a notch from "pathetic" to just "substandard."

Who said it was a 6th?

JASONSAUTO
08-24-2009, 06:47 PM
Dude, I know. Do you know how much it irritates me that I can't use such phrases? I mean, come on. Get with the times.

If more newspapers put phrases like "chugs cock" in print, they wouldn't be dying off.

are you actually classified as "media folk"? dont you need press passes to be classified as that?

Buehler445
08-24-2009, 07:55 PM
Carl tried to fix the defense for 10 years. Its nice there trying but enough trying they better start doing.


Yea and thats where the starting doing comment applies.

WTF? How can they start doing if they haven't played any games. Your logic is........dizzying.

So does Carl; match made in Herpes.

OK, that was funny.

Brown
08-24-2009, 08:26 PM
Fins fan here just to say thanks for taking them off our hands.

Ndukwe is serviceable and Alleman blows so don't expect much out of either player.

Raised On Riots
08-24-2009, 08:28 PM
Fins fan here just to say thanks for taking them off our hands.

Ndukwe is serviceable and Alleman blows so don't expect much out of either player.

We'll takes what we can get at this point. Welcome to the Planet.

Count Zarth
08-24-2009, 08:32 PM
are you actually classified as "media folk"? dont you need press passes to be classified as that?

Call me whatever you want. I have not the freedom to talk of things that chug cock.

Mecca
08-24-2009, 08:35 PM
Fins fan here just to say thanks for taking them off our hands.

Ndukwe is serviceable and Alleman blows so don't expect much out of either player.

This Miami writer today on the radio laughed at the idea of them starting and inferred they both suck.

Brown
08-24-2009, 08:42 PM
This Miami writer today on the radio laughed at the idea of them starting and inferred they both suck.

Ndukwe at guard wasn't terrible but he wasn't any good either. Serviceable at best playing RG. He is terrible at tackle and will be embarrassed at that position.

Alleman is awful. Should be nothing more then 3rd string.

DaneMcCloud
08-24-2009, 08:55 PM
Ndukwe at guard wasn't terrible but he wasn't any good either. Serviceable at best playing RG. He is terrible at tackle and will be embarrassed at that position.

Alleman is awful. Should be nothing more then 3rd string.

They both sound like instant upgrades

Chocolate Hog
08-24-2009, 09:00 PM
Enjoy Chad Pennington.

Raised On Riots
08-24-2009, 09:07 PM
They both sound like instant upgrades

ROFL

Brown
08-24-2009, 09:10 PM
Enjoy Chad Pennington.

Will do

TRR
08-24-2009, 09:11 PM
Fins fan here just to say thanks for taking them off our hands.

Ndukwe is serviceable and Alleman blows so don't expect much out of either player.

Sounds like sour grapes. I'm not saying either are very good, but O Line depth for a supposed 6th round draft pick isn't bad any way you slice it.
Posted via Mobile Device

Brown
08-24-2009, 09:17 PM
Sounds like sour grapes. I'm not saying either are very good, but O Line depth for a supposed 6th round draft pick isn't bad any way you slice it.
Posted via Mobile Device

Someone posted in this thread that both will be competing for a starting spot. If that is the case then you guys are in trouble.

And no sour grapes here they were 3rd string linemen. I'm glad we got a draft pick in return opposed to nothing.

DaneMcCloud
08-24-2009, 09:18 PM
Someone posted in this thread that both will be competing for a starting spot. If that is the case then you guys are in trouble.


Just imagine how poorly the current lineman are playing.

Then you'll get an idea of the trouble our line is in.

DenverChief
08-24-2009, 09:19 PM
Someone posted in this thread that both will be competing for a starting spot. If that is the case then you guys are in trouble.

And no sour grapes here they were 3rd string linemen. I'm glad we got a draft pick in return opposed to nothing.

Bill williamson of espn said ndwukaswhatever would compete for a starting spot and alleman would be just depth
Posted via Mobile Device

Brown
08-24-2009, 09:22 PM
Just imagine how poorly the current lineman are playing.

Then you'll get an idea of the trouble our line is in.

Are they the reason Cassell has been struggling? I haven't seen them play yet only highlights courtesy of SportsCenter so they didn't show much.

Bill williamson of espn said ndwukaswhatever would compete of a starting spot and alleman would be just depth
Posted via Mobile Device

Thanks. Like I said Ndukwe at guard is serviceable but playing tackle he is awful.

Saccopoo
08-24-2009, 09:39 PM
Ndukwe at guard wasn't terrible but he wasn't any good either. Serviceable at best playing RG. He is terrible at tackle and will be embarrassed at that position.

Alleman is awful. Should be nothing more then 3rd string.

Sounds like the second coming of John Tait and Will Shields compared to the current situation. And all for a 12th round selection. And to think that I wanted to crucify him after his first draft...

Where do I sign up, 'cause I'm now a believer!

KC kid
08-24-2009, 09:42 PM
This Miami writer today on the radio laughed at the idea of them starting and inferred they both suck.

Well, if a reporter said it. . .

Tits McGee
08-24-2009, 09:47 PM
Ndukwe at guard wasn't terrible but he wasn't any good either. Serviceable at best playing RG. He is terrible at tackle and will be embarrassed at that position.

Alleman is awful. Should be nothing more then 3rd string.

Ring material...

bluehawkdoc
08-24-2009, 09:47 PM
All the pieces are falling into place for Goff to play the "wildcat" just as Piolo planned when he initially signed him. It's so obvious. When he got blown off the line, it was because he felt more comfortable in his natural position in the backfield.

DaneMcCloud
08-24-2009, 09:53 PM
Are they the reason Cassell has been struggling? I haven't seen them play yet only highlights courtesy of SportsCenter so they didn't show much.

Yes. That and no one to throw to besides Dwayne Bowe.

1-15 could possibly be a banner year. It would totally beat the hell out of 0-16.

keg in kc
08-24-2009, 10:10 PM
Not sexy moves, but it's good to see them turning over some rocks.

As for Cassel, he's been pretty much the only person not struggling on offense. He had like a 106 rating on Friday, despite 3 sacks and pressure every time he dropped back. And he'd have been 4-5 passing in the first game without two drops right in guys' breadbaskets. I can't imagine how good he'd look right now if he had time for more than a 5-step drop.

salame
08-25-2009, 12:57 AM
http://www.iphonesavior.com/images/2008/02/29/windows_vista_fail.jpg

JD10367
08-25-2009, 04:55 AM
As has been pointed out with other roster moves for you guys, it's a simple equation. If X>Y, then X is better. The guys Miami cut might suck by Miami's viewpoint, but that doesn't mean they still aren't upgrades for another team. Not to mention the thought that, perhaps, Miami might be wrong.

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 11:03 AM
Not sexy moves, but it's good to see them turning over some rocks.

As for Cassel, he's been pretty much the only person not struggling on offense. He had like a 106 rating on Friday, despite 3 sacks and pressure every time he dropped back. And he'd have been 4-5 passing in the first game without two drops right in guys' breadbaskets. I can't imagine how good he'd look right now if he had time for more than a 5-step drop.

Yeah, I agree. He's been impressive despite his surrounding cast.

I think he's going to be a very effective QB, once the pieces are all in place.

Chiefnj2
08-25-2009, 11:06 AM
They should showcase Thigpen in the 2nd half of this weekends game and try to get a draft pick for him.

Just Passin' By
08-25-2009, 11:13 AM
One of the Patriots linemen that I thought could very well end up in Kansas City won't be going there. According to reports, Russ Hochstein was traded to the Broncos.

Current and former Patriots players continue to go through the tree...

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 11:13 AM
They should showcase Thigpen in the 2nd half of this weekends game and try to get a draft pick for him.

Don't you think the other 31 teams have enough tape of him from last year?

I'd rather see Brody or Gutierrez out there because they both need "live" work.

Raised On Riots
08-25-2009, 11:53 AM
Don't you think the other 31 teams have enough tape of him from last year?

I'd rather see Brody or Gutierrez out there because they both need "live" work.

I would rather see Brodie showcase and hopefully get traded.

wild1
08-25-2009, 11:56 AM
Don't you think the other 31 teams have enough tape of him from last year?

I'd rather see Brody or Gutierrez out there because they both need "live" work.

:clap:

"showcase" thigpen. that's like "showcasing" a skidmarked pair of underwear. we should be hiding our shame, not showing it off.

Chocolate Hog
08-25-2009, 12:03 PM
I would rather see Brodie showcase and hopefully get traded.

Brodie would get hurt playing a whole half.

HC_Chief
08-25-2009, 12:09 PM
Don't you think the other 31 teams have enough tape of him from last year?

I'd rather see Brody or Gutierrez out there because they both need "live" work.

Good point.

I would like to see Gutierrez get some more PT. He looked pretty good in the Minn game IMO.

Chiefnj2
08-25-2009, 12:14 PM
Don't you think the other 31 teams have enough tape of him from last year?

I'd rather see Brody or Gutierrez out there because they both need "live" work.

Why do they need "live" work? If Cassel goes down instead of winning 5 or 6 games they win 2 (maybe).

Micjones
08-25-2009, 12:21 PM
Don't you think the other 31 teams have enough tape of him from last year?

I'd rather see Brody or Gutierrez out there because they both need "live" work.

Agreed.

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 12:21 PM
Why do they need "live" work? If Cassel goes down instead of winning 5 or 6 games they win 2 (maybe).

Why? Because Cassel gets the majority of snaps in practice and will obviously be the starter.

Personally (and this is obviously just my opinion), I'd rather see Croyle and Gut play before Thigpen because honestly, I don't think he has a future with the Chiefs. And as I said before, there's nothing "new" that Thigpen can show in one quarter of a preseason game that he hasn't shown in 11 games (44 quarters) as a starter last year.

And for the record, I feel that the Chiefs will likely win less than 4 games this season (I'm going with 2 for right now, though that could change before the opener, as the roster is fluid) with Cassel as a starter.

Micjones
08-25-2009, 12:21 PM
Why do they need "live" work? If Cassel goes down instead of winning 5 or 6 games they win 2 (maybe).

Without the live work you may not win any games.

Chocolate Hog
08-25-2009, 12:33 PM
Guttierez is the perfect #3 QB. He already knows the system.

Raised On Riots
08-25-2009, 01:12 PM
Guttierez is the perfect #3 QB. He already knows the system.

He could take #2 easily.

JD10367
08-25-2009, 01:54 PM
:clap:

"showcase" thigpen. that's like "showcasing" a skidmarked pair of underwear. we should be hiding our shame, not showing it off.

Hey, that could be Thigpen's new nickname! "Bacon Stripe!" :D

Micjones
08-25-2009, 02:36 PM
He could take #2 easily.

I think so too.

How nice would it be if we could get something in return for Croyle?
Even if it was just a player... I'd trade him for a valuabe KR/PR.

T-post Tom
08-25-2009, 03:02 PM
Of course it makes sense.

They were going to be cut. The Chiefs gave them compensation so that both players wouldn't be picked up by Detroit or St. Louis, both of which have offensive line and depth issues.


Pioli got this deal done because he's Parcell's son-in-law.

Raised On Riots
08-25-2009, 06:16 PM
I think so too.

How nice would it be if we could get something in return for Croyle?
Even if it was just a player... I'd trade him for a valuable KR/PR.

That'd work.

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 06:22 PM
That'd work.

Wow, not for me.

Kick returners last 5 minutes in the NFL.

Croyle has shown when healthy that he has a promising future.

Thigpen on the other hand...

TRR
08-25-2009, 06:35 PM
Croyle has shown when healthy that he has a promising future.

When has Croyle been healthy?

Raised On Riots
08-25-2009, 06:44 PM
I think so too.

How nice would it be if we could get something in return for Croyle?
Even if it was just a player... I'd trade him for a valuabe KR/PR.

Wow, not for me.

Kick returners last 5 minutes in the NFL.

Croyle has shown when healthy that he has a promising future.

Thigpen on the other hand...

Say wha? Croyle has shown ME thus far that he is inconsistent. And I mean inconsistent in both his health AND his play. Everybody's tired of hearing "Croyle for Marshall", so I'm not bringing it up though obviously I'd prefer to get compensation of QB-value, were a deal to be made.
That said, if you could promise me a Hall or Vanover right now, today, for Brodie Croyle would I take it? Yes. A hundred times yes.

"Thigpen on the other hand" could fetch us a hot dog at Wrigley Field/midnight showing of "Rocky Horror"-combo, or quite possibly a warm bucket of horse piss.

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 06:47 PM
When has Croyle been healthy?

Never. But that doesn't mean that his value worth more than a kick returner.

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 06:49 PM
Say wha? Croyle has shown ME thus far that he is inconsistent. And I mean inconsistent in both his health AND his play.

I get that but Croyle still has a tremendous upside. He costs the Chiefs virtually nothing and hopefully, Haley, Pioli and their trainers are helping Croyle with his body with nutrition and a workout regimen.

Kick returners are a dime a dozen. While their might be a "breakout" guy from time to time, their value is no where near that of a QB.

IMO.

JASONSAUTO
08-25-2009, 07:00 PM
I get that but Croyle still has a tremendous upside. He costs the Chiefs virtually nothing and hopefully, Haley, Pioli and their trainers are helping Croyle with his body with nutrition and a workout regimen.

Kick returners are a dime a dozen. While their might be a "breakout" guy from time to time, their value is no where near that of a QB.IMO.

i agree, now hester.... other than him forget about it.




and i know hesters not going anywhere, just he is one that would be WELL worth it.

TRR
08-25-2009, 07:02 PM
Never. But that doesn't mean that his value worth more than a kick returner.

It depends on what kick returner. I would trade Croyle for Josh Cribbs in a heartbeat. Same with several other returners. I understand what your saying but how soon we forget about last season with Croyle, and his college career, and his high school career. He just can't withstand the pounding of a 16 games season.

JASONSAUTO
08-25-2009, 07:03 PM
It depends on what kick returner. I would trade Croyle for Josh Cribbs in a heartbeat. Same with several other returners. I understand what your saying but how soon we forget about last season with Croyle, and his college career, and his high school career. He just can't withstand the pounding of a 16 games season.

cribbs, he's another one


but they are few and far between.

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 07:05 PM
It depends on what kick returner. I would trade Croyle for Josh Cribbs in a heartbeat. Same with several other returners. I understand what your saying but how soon we forget about last season with Croyle, and his college career, and his high school career. He just can't withstand the pounding of a 16 games season.

Cribbs? Absolutely. But you and I both know that the chance of that happening is zero.

I am fully aware of Croyle's injury history from high school to the NFL but unless there's an immediate upgrade available at the #2 QB position, Croyle should remain a Chief, IMO.

Raised On Riots
08-25-2009, 07:06 PM
I get that but Croyle still has a tremendous upside. He costs the Chiefs virtually nothing and hopefully, Haley, Pioli and their trainers are helping Croyle with his body with nutrition and a workout regimen.

Kick returners are a dime a dozen. While their might be a "breakout" guy from time to time, their value is no where near that of a QB.

IMO.

Right. I get that. I'm just saying that if you can deliver a sure deal guy that can break a run to the end zone more often that not, and get the offense started at or past the 30 more often than not; I'd take it.

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 07:08 PM
Right. I get that. I'm just saying that if you can deliver a sure deal guy that can break a run to the end zone more often that not, and get the offense started at or past the 30 more often than not; I'd take it.

IMO, this is going to be a "weird" year for kick returners, especially established guys.

With the four man wedge being "outlawed", many special teams coaches will be struggling to get decent returns. This is the last year that I'd personally trade for a kick returner because now more than ever, you just don't know what you're getting from that position.

JASONSAUTO
08-25-2009, 07:12 PM
IMO, this is going to be a "weird" year for kick returners, especially established guys.

With the four man wedge being "outlawed", many special teams coaches will be struggling to get decent returns. This is the last year that I'd personally trade for a kick returner because now more than ever, you just don't know what you're getting from that position.

i didnt think of that, maybe THATS why hester is only doing punts this year, doesnt want to get killed on KOs

Gonzo
08-25-2009, 07:19 PM
Anyone listen to that douchebag Colin Cowherd (sp?) today? He was talking about the Chargers and said that they would go 6-0 in the division. He also said that every team in the West got worse this year except San Diego.
Posted via Mobile Device

Raised On Riots
08-25-2009, 07:28 PM
Anyone listen to that douchebag Colin Cowherd (sp?) today? He was talking about the Chargers and said that they would go 6-0 in the division. He also said that every team in the West got worse this year except San Diego.
Posted via Mobile Device

How the fuck could we have gotten worse?! That guy's a moran.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-25-2009, 07:32 PM
How the **** could we have gotten worse?! That guy's a moran.

I'm sure he'd say that losing Gonzalez is his reason for it.

Raised On Riots
08-25-2009, 07:36 PM
I'm sure he'd say that losing Gonzalez is his reason for it.

One player.:shake: Man, that's just ridiculous.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-25-2009, 07:47 PM
One player.:shake: Man, that's just ridiculous.

It all depends on which young players develop and step up. This team has alot of youth and high picks on defense, so we'll see if the new staff can get better results. I know it is preseason, but the D isn't missing as many tackles as previous years and that's a good sign. The team should be better with a more accurate QB which they have in Cassel and better defensive play.

Chocolate Hog
08-25-2009, 07:51 PM
Brodie Croyle for Julian Edelman. That'd be a steal.

salame
08-25-2009, 07:55 PM
One player.:shake: Man, that's just ridiculous.

well just look at jared allen

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_1x1mvb2W23Q/SYHo850oINI/AAAAAAAAAh8/MOulOR4ng1U/s400/edwards.jpg

Raised On Riots
08-25-2009, 08:00 PM
well just look at jared allen

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_1x1mvb2W23Q/SYHo850oINI/AAAAAAAAAh8/MOulOR4ng1U/s400/edwards.jpg

GAKK! THAT FACE! THAT HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE FACE!

BAD SALAME! BAD!:cuss::D

Raised On Riots
08-25-2009, 08:02 PM
It all depends on which young players develop and step up. This team has alot of youth and high picks on defense, so we'll see if the new staff can get better results. I know it is preseason, but the D isn't missing as many tackles as previous years and that's a good sign. The team should be better with a more accurate QB which they have in Cassel and better defensive play.

I choose to measure good/bad the same way our Benevolent Triumvirate does:

Wins.

Saccopoo
08-25-2009, 08:06 PM
Anyone listen to that douchebag Colin Cowherd (sp?) today? He was talking about the Chargers and said that they would go 6-0 in the division. He also said that every team in the West got worse this year except San Diego.
Posted via Mobile Device

Cowherd actually said something about sports?

I need to go stock up on food supplies, as this is surely a sign of the Apocalypse.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-25-2009, 08:07 PM
I choose to measure good/bad the same way our Benevolent Triumvirate does:

Wins.

I would hope they see an improvement in that category. It's pretty hard to lose 14 games in a season and have a 2-23 stretch :mad:

StcChief
08-25-2009, 08:07 PM
I like it...solid move all off season. Brokie Croyle 16 games with a clipboard or mopup duty. moves for OL guys.

KCBOSS1
08-25-2009, 08:39 PM
This is the area where I think that the chiefs should spend the money and get pro bowl linemen. This is where it's won. We had a fantastic offense with Trent, Priest, early larry....exit the anchor Roaf....downward spiral. I don't understand, why coaches don't get this. I don't know, maybe they do, but it doesn't seem like it. All of the skill players are skill if they have time and room to show it. I'm not a fan of drafting OL unless there are no exceptional free agent guys available. If the left tackle is a bust...it busts up your QBs and HBs.

Count Zarth
08-25-2009, 08:40 PM
I don't understand, why coaches don't get this. I don't know, maybe they do, but it doesn't seem like it.

Um, why do you think the Chiefs drafted Albert?

There's a reason why you rarely see a line like the 03 Chiefs had on other teams - it's HARD to find that many good linemen all at once.

Even Super Bowl teams don't have a line that great.

KCBOSS1
08-25-2009, 08:56 PM
Yeah, I've never seen a line like that and couldn't appreciate it really until it was gone. Just seemed like the way it was supposed to be, right? All of the credit went to the passers and runners. As good as they were, it wasn't where it was at. Still, I'm saying that left tackle is the absolute most important position in football in my observation and if at all possible should not be trusted to the draft. I don't think that college gives it the test that it deserves for the NFL, though I realize it is not avoidable. When we drafted Albert, were there any great or really good left tackles available?

Count Zarth
08-25-2009, 08:58 PM
Still, I'm saying that left tackle is the absolute most important position in football in my observation and if at all possible should not be trusted to the draft.

:spock:

Where do you think great left tackles come from?

Storks?

Mecca
08-25-2009, 09:00 PM
Quarterback is the most important position, without that what's your LT protecting?

KCBOSS1
08-25-2009, 09:02 PM
Hello, did you read all of my comments or just pick the parts to try to make me look stupid on? (go chiefs)

Raised On Riots
08-25-2009, 09:05 PM
Quarterback is the most important position, without that what's your LT protecting?

Last year? The Piss Boy.

KCBOSS1
08-25-2009, 09:06 PM
Quarterback is the most important position, without that what's your LT protecting?

Well that's understood, but you got no good quarterback or at least lasting one without a good tackle at least typically. The first secret to a good team is in the trenches.

JD10367
08-25-2009, 09:09 PM
Hey, don't you wish the Chiefs had Orton? I mean, if the LT sucks ass, no problem, as long as your RT is decent, 'cause Orton can switch to the other hand!

I have a new nickname for him. Forget "Neckbeard": he's now Kyle "The Dread Pirate Robers" Orton. :)

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/k7zvffHu_wo&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/k7zvffHu_wo&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Count Zarth
08-25-2009, 09:29 PM
Hello, did you read all of my comments or just pick the parts to try to make me look stupid on? (go chiefs)

If any part of your post is stupid, it will be picked out.

Welcome to Chiefsplanet.

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 09:38 PM
Yeah, I've never seen a line like that and couldn't appreciate it really until it was gone. Just seemed like the way it was supposed to be, right? All of the credit went to the passers and runners. As good as they were, it wasn't where it was at. Still, I'm saying that left tackle is the absolute most important position in football in my observation and if at all possible should not be trusted to the draft. I don't think that college gives it the test that it deserves for the NFL, though I realize it is not avoidable. When we drafted Albert, were there any great or really good left tackles available?


What the FUCK? Left tackle shouldn't be left to the draft?

JFC.

Go back to the kiddie pool at the Coalition.

You're a fucking football moron.

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 09:39 PM
Well that's understood, but you got no good quarterback or at least lasting one without a good tackle at least typically. The first secret to a good team is in the trenches.

Bull Fucking Shit.

The first "secret" to a good team is a fucking Franchise QB.

Have you ever watched an NFL game before?

Count Zarth
08-25-2009, 09:39 PM
Dane applies a less sensitive touch to the debate.

Raised On Riots
08-25-2009, 09:40 PM
Dane applies a less sensitive touch to the debate.

ROFL

Chocolate Hog
08-25-2009, 09:40 PM
What the ****? Left tackle shouldn't be left to the draft?

JFC.

Go back to the kiddie pool at the Coalition.

You're a ****ing football moron.

lol I cant think of a LT that was any good that was signed by someone else. Besides Mcintosh.

KCUnited
08-25-2009, 09:41 PM
lol I cant think of a LT that was any good that was signed by someone else. Besides Mcintosh.
Willie Roaf.

Chocolate Hog
08-25-2009, 09:42 PM
Willie Roaf.

The Chiefs traded for him.

Count Zarth
08-25-2009, 09:42 PM
Willie Roaf.

That was a trade, and the Chiefs got lucky that Roaf's knee was OK.

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 09:43 PM
Willie Roaf.

That was a trade.

And quite honestly, it wasn't worth it.

He played for less than 3 seasons and was constantly injured.

The Chiefs would have been much better off choosing a left tackle in the draft.

And it's likely that they wouldn't have had to spend #15 overall on Albert.

KCUnited
08-25-2009, 09:45 PM
Jared Gaither.

Chocolate Hog
08-25-2009, 09:46 PM
Jared Gaither.

I believe he was picked in the suplement draft.

Count Zarth
08-25-2009, 09:46 PM
He played for less than 3 seasons and was constantly injured.


02
03
04
05

BULL FUCKING SHIT!

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 09:46 PM
I believe he was picked in the suplement draft.

5th round out of Maryland

KCUnited
08-25-2009, 09:46 PM
I believe he was picked in the suplement draft.
yep, you're right.

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 09:47 PM
02
03
04
05

BULL FUCKING SHIT!

He only played 10 games in 2005.

It was a waste. No playoff wins, 2 losing seasons, 2 winning seasons, one playoff appearance.

And in 2006, they were again without an adequate left tackle.

Chocolate Hog
08-25-2009, 09:49 PM
I forget what pick we gave up for Roaf but it was a good trade if the Chiefs would have been able to draft depth. Thats why Pioli is the man.

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 09:51 PM
I forget what pick we gave up for Roaf but it was a good trade if the Chiefs would have been able to draft depth. Thats why Pioli is the man.

3rd round pick

Count Zarth
08-25-2009, 09:52 PM
He only played 10 games in 2005.

It was a waste. No playoff wins, 2 losing seasons, 2 winning seasons, one playoff appearance.

And in 2006, they were again without an adequate left tackle.

I'm sorry, I have a problem agreeing with this.

Roaf was a major cog in the most enjoyable Chiefs season since 1997, the most enjoyable era since the Marty years.

I'm having a very hard time thinking of it as a waste.

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 09:53 PM
I'm sorry, I have a problem agreeing with this.

Roaf was a major cog in the most enjoyable Chiefs season since 1997, the most enjoyable era since the Marty years.

I'm having a very hard time thinking of it as a waste.

Yeah, because you can't separate personal enjoyment from actual success

Chocolate Hog
08-25-2009, 09:55 PM
The Saints drafted James Allen with the pick the Chiefs traded for him. He was a pro-bowler and the best LT to ever play for the Chiefs. It was a good trade because the Chiefs were actual contenders, like I said if Carl could draft the trade would have been even more of a steal.

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 09:57 PM
Holy crap. The Roaf trade was one of the best trades this organization ever did.

People thought he was almost done but ended up playing 4 seasons and anchored one of the greatest lines in NFL history.

Chocolate Hog
08-25-2009, 09:57 PM
The Saints drafted James Allen with the pick the Chiefs traded for him. He was a pro-bowler and the best LT to ever play for the Chiefs. It was a good trade because the Chiefs were actual contenders, like I said if Carl could draft the trade would have been even more of a steal.


NM I guess the Cowboys got the Chiefs third round pick that year they drafted Derek Ross whoever that is.

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 09:57 PM
The Saints drafted James Allen with the pick the Chiefs traded for him. He was a pro-bowler and the best LT to ever play for the Chiefs. It was a good trade because the Chiefs were actual contenders, like I said if Carl could draft the trade would have been even more of a steal.

They lost in the first round of the playoffs in one of his four seasons. The other years they were 8-8, 7-9 and 10-6, again missing the playoffs three out of four years.

They weren't contenders.

They were pretenders.

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 09:58 PM
Holy crap. The Roaf trade was one of the best trades this organization ever did.

People thought he was almost done but ended up playing 4 seasons and anchored one of the greatest lines in NFL history.

Who cares?

They didn't win shit.

Chocolate Hog
08-25-2009, 09:58 PM
They lost in the first round of the playoffs in one of his four seasons. The other years they were 8-8, 7-9 and 10-6, again missing the playoffs three out of four years.

They weren't contenders.

They were pretenders.

And he was apart of one of the best offenses in the league. If the GM was any good and fixed the defense that team would have competed for a championship.

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 09:59 PM
They lost in the first round of the playoffs in one of his four seasons. The other years they were 8-8, 7-9 and 10-6, again missing the playoffs three out of four years.

They weren't contenders.

They were pretenders.

And that was the offenses fault? Our D was shit hell we had to practically score on every possession which sometimes we did.

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 10:01 PM
Who cares?

They didn't win shit.

That isn't Roaf's fault he probably gave up 1 sack a year if that.

The guy dominated we just had shit for D.

Mecca
08-25-2009, 10:02 PM
And that was the offenses fault? Our D was shit hell we had to practically score on every possession which sometimes we did.

One of the problems with that team was Vermiel was old and he had no desire to let young players play or develop.

So the team, specifically the offense was built out of nothing but older players. That's why it's run was so short.

The Chiefs couldn't just plug in a guy here or there to replace a guy they lost, the entire offense basically evaporated together.

That was the major difference in why the Chiefs offense imploded and the Colts can keep plugging guys in theirs and it still runs.

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 10:02 PM
And he was apart of one of the best offenses in the league. If the GM was any good and fixed the defense that team would have competed for a championship.

The bottom line is that the Chiefs didn't need Willie Roaf to have the best offense in the league. They just needed an good left tackle. That's it. A good left tackle.

And had they actually drafted a left tackle, it's likely that person would still be with the team.

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 10:04 PM
That isn't Roaf's fault he probably gave up 1 sack a year if that.

The guy dominated we just had shit for D.

Who cares? They didn't win a thing.

And puhleese, don't tell me that to win a Super Bowl, you need 5 fucking Pro Bowlers on the line.

Because that's far from the truth.

Mecca
08-25-2009, 10:04 PM
If the Chiefs had drafted the players they should of instead of worrying about trying to get Dick Vermiel a playoff win we wouldn't be in the situation we are today.

That team reached and reached for players because of what DV wanted.

Raised On Riots
08-25-2009, 10:05 PM
Who cares?

They didn't win shit.

Alright; trashing the Dicky-do era! One of my fave topics! Wind er' up and let er' fly, Dane!

PBJ "DANE-DANE HE'S OUR MAN"!

Chocolate Hog
08-25-2009, 10:05 PM
The bottom line is that the Chiefs didn't need Willie Roaf to have the best offense in the league. They just needed an good left tackle. That's it. A good left tackle.

And had they actually drafted a left tackle, it's likely that person would still be with the team.

I disagree with you there. O-linemen are hit or miss and Carls record of drafting fucking sucked.

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 10:06 PM
If the Chiefs had drafted the players they should of instead of worrying about trying to get Dick Vermiel a playoff win we wouldn't be in the situation we are today.

That team reached and reached for players because of what DV wanted.

You know, I could see the casual fan not grasping that concept that is truth.

But people on this forum? People with 10,000 plus posts not understanding that you don't need a once in a decade lineman to win a Super Bowl?

JFC.

Mecca
08-25-2009, 10:06 PM
I disagree with you there. O-linemen are hit or miss and Carls record of drafting fucking sucked.

I want you to go look at the teams with the best Olines in football and tell me how many of them used 1st round picks...numerous of them don't have any.

Count Zarth
08-25-2009, 10:07 PM
Alright; trashing the Dicky-do era! One of my fave topics! Wind er' up and let er' fly, Dane!

PBJ "DANE-DANE HE'S OUR MAN"!

When you wish upon a star
Chiefs will suck and not go far

Any loss your heart desires
Can come...to....beeeeeeeeeeeee

Sacks, turnovers and shitty play
All combine to lose the day

While true fans cry in their beer
You lean back and crack a sneeeeeeeeeeeer

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 10:07 PM
One of the problems with that team was Vermiel was old and he had no desire to let young players play or develop.

So the team, specifically the offense was built out of nothing but older players. That's why it's run was so short.

The Chiefs couldn't just plug in a guy here or there to replace a guy they lost, the entire offense basically evaporated together.

That was the major difference in why the Chiefs offense imploded and the Colts can keep plugging guys in theirs and it still runs.

No question. DV wanted to win it all by year 3-4 and didn't care much at all about young players.

But that ain't Roaf's fault and he played at an HOF level while he was here.

The problem with them during that time frame was their draft choices were pretty much suck all the way around

Chocolate Hog
08-25-2009, 10:08 PM
I want you to go look at the teams with the best Olines in football and tell me how many of them used 1st round picks...numerous of them don't have any.


Then look at Carls record of draft picks that weren't first rounders. They fucking sucked.

Mecca
08-25-2009, 10:08 PM
You know, I could see the casual fan not grasping that concept that is truth.

But people on this forum? People with 10,000 plus posts not understanding that you don't need a once in a decade lineman to win a Super Bowl?

JFC.

People who work in the league get shortsighted when they think they are close that is what separates the GMs.

The Chiefs offense was aging yet they thought they were close to the kept drafting defensive players no matter, and that was what the fans wanted..

Problem was in most of those drafts the Chiefs best options at their picks were offensive players.

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 10:08 PM
I disagree with you there. O-linemen are hit or miss and Carls record of drafting fucking sucked.

No, they're not hit or miss. If you scout and draft properly, they're far from hit and miss.

Look around the league. Why do you think the same teams year in and year out compete for a championship?

NY Giants, Baltimore Ravens, New England Patriots, Pittsburgh Steelers, Philadephia Eagles, Green Bay Packers and Indianapolis Colts.

Why do you think those teams are always in the mix? Because of their Hall of Fame left tackles?

Come on, Dude.

DeezNutz
08-25-2009, 10:08 PM
I'm sorry, I have a problem agreeing with this.

Roaf was a major cog in the most enjoyable Chiefs season since 1997, the most enjoyable era since the Marty years.

I'm having a very hard time thinking of it as a waste.

Well, I see that Chiefs fans can use the term "enjoyable" pretty loosely.

I fucking hated the DV era, which was jump started by trading high-round picks for a fucking coach.

Fuck. You. Carl.

The DV era was a fucking joke.

Mecca
08-25-2009, 10:09 PM
No question. DV wanted to win it all by year 3-4 and didn't care much at all about young players.

But that ain't Roaf's fault and he played at an HOF level while he was here.

The problem with them during that time frame was their draft choices were pretty much suck all the way around

The Roaf move in and of itself is ok the problem was that entire team was built that way and you can't do that.

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 10:09 PM
When you wish upon a star
Chiefs will suck and not go far

Any loss your heart desires
Can come...to....beeeeeeeeeeeee

Sacks, turnovers and shitty play
All combine to lose the day

While true fans cry in their beer
You lean back and crack a sneeeeeeeeeeeer

Truth hurts, don't it?

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 10:10 PM
Who cares? They didn't win a thing.

And puhleese, don't tell me that to win a Super Bowl, you need 5 fucking Pro Bowlers on the line.

Because that's far from the truth.

Of course not Dane. Hell I think the Chiefs were shocked how well Roaf could still play.

We had shit for D but a championship O. It is too bad really.

Chocolate Hog
08-25-2009, 10:10 PM
No, they're not hit or miss. If you scout and draft properly, they're far from hit and miss.

Look around the league. Why do you think the same teams year in and year out compete for a championship?

NY Giants, Baltimore Ravens, New England Patriots, Pittsburgh Steelers, Philadephia Eagles, Green Bay Packers and Indianapolis Colts.

Why do you think those teams are always in the mix? Because of their Hall of Fame left tackles?

Come on, Dude.

All those teams you listed had good LT's. You want a medicore LT for a QB with bad knees? Come on Dane Up isn't the new down. Let's look at the linemen who Carl drafted in the late rounds... Jordan Black, Brett Williams, ect. It's fair to say he was horrible at drafting and deveolping talent.

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 10:11 PM
Well, I see that Chiefs fans can use the term "enjoyable" pretty loosely.

I fucking hated the DV era, which was jump started by trading high-round picks for a fucking coach.

Fuck. You. Carl.

The DV era was a fucking joke.

Trent Green for #12 overall. 5 years of service. No playoff wins.

DV for a second round pick in 2001 and a third round pick in 2002. 5 years of service, no playoff wins.

Need I go on?

Dick Vermeil can fuck himself. I HATE that clueless, old bastard.

HATE him.

Chocolate Hog
08-25-2009, 10:11 PM
Now if ya'll want to bitch about a Vermiel era trade I will say the John Welbourne one was pretty stupid.

Mecca
08-25-2009, 10:11 PM
Of course not Dane. Hell I think the Chiefs were shocked how well Roaf could still play.

We had shit for D but a championship O. It is too bad really.

And that feeling led to bad drafts because everyone supported taking defense no matter what when the best players on the board several times were O guys.

If we had taken the guys we should have we would have had guys to take over on offense but instead we had nothing on offense and a bunch of shitty defensive picks.

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 10:12 PM
All those teams you listed had good LT's. You want a medicore LT for a QB with bad knees? Come on Dane Up isn't the new down. Let's look at the linemen who Carl drafted in the late rounds... Jordan Black, Brett Williams, ect. It's fair to say he was horrible at drafting and deveolping talent.

Yeah, they have "good" left tackles.

The point is that you can find good left tackles everywhere, every year. Jared Gaither was mentioned earlier and he was a 5th round, supplemental pick.

You don't need a fucking Hall of Famer to have a good offense.

DeezNutz
08-25-2009, 10:12 PM
Trent Green for #12 overall. 5 years of service. No playoff wins.

DV for a second round pick in 2001 and a third round pick in 2002. 5 years of service, no playoff wins.

Need I go on?

Dick Vermeil can **** himself. I HATE that clueless, old bastard.

HATE him.

LMAO.

I can't stand him either. That motherfucker went a long way to trying to destroy this franchise (with much help from Carl).

Raised On Riots
08-25-2009, 10:12 PM
Trent Green for #12 overall. 5 years of service. No playoff wins.

DV for a second round pick in 2001 and a third round pick in 2002. 5 years of service, no playoff wins.

Need I go on?

Dick Vermeil can fuck himself. I HATE that clueless, old bastard.

HATE him.

I rate this post 100% Customer Satisfaction! ROFL

Mecca
08-25-2009, 10:13 PM
I still can't get over we traded a top 15 pick for a QB that played 5 years and people think it was a great move.

Chocolate Hog
08-25-2009, 10:13 PM
Yeah, they have "good" left tackles.

The point is that you can find good left tackles everywhere, every year. Jared Gaither was mentioned earlier and he was a 5th round, supplemental pick.

You don't need a ****ing Hall of Famer to have a good offense.

Yes and my point is Carl wasn't able to find such talent in the draft. Ya'll are giving that guy more credit then he deserves.

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 10:13 PM
LMAO.

I can't stand him either. That motherfucker went a long way to trying to destroy this franchise (with much help from Carl).

Oh come on! It was the "Golden Era!".

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

DeezNutz
08-25-2009, 10:14 PM
I still can't get over we traded a top 15 pick for a QB that played 5 years and people think it was a great move.

He's no Drew Brees.

Who was in that same motherfucking draft.

Fuck. You. DV.

Mecca
08-25-2009, 10:14 PM
Yes and my point is Carl wasn't able to find such talent in the draft. Ya'll are giving that guy more credit then he deserves.

So basically because Carl sucks we should celebrate a flawed thing he did because something is better than nothing?

Chocolate Hog
08-25-2009, 10:14 PM
Eric Downing instead of Steve Smith was an awesome pick too.

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 10:14 PM
Yes and my point is Carl wasn't able to find such talent in the draft. Ya'll are giving that guy more credit then he deserves.

Okay, Carl sucked at the draft. News at 11.

The bottom line is that it is not necessary to have a Hall of Fame left tackle in order to win the Super Bowl.

I can guaran-fucking-tee you that the only time Max Starks sees the Hall of Fame is with a paid admission.

Mecca
08-25-2009, 10:15 PM
He's no Drew Brees.

Who was in that same motherfucking draft.

Fuck. You. DV.

We passed on 2...even if they had made the Green deal, he was 30 some odd years old and we took a OLB in front of Aaron Rodgers....

Short sightedness at it's best.

DeezNutz
08-25-2009, 10:15 PM
Oh come on! It was the "Golden Era!".

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

Very enjoyable.

Please excuse me for a little bit while I go shove my toothbrush up my cock, another hobby I take great pleasure in.

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 10:15 PM
The Roaf move in and of itself is ok the problem was that entire team was built that way and you can't do that.

The O was built that way not so sure on the D.

If you go back and look at the 2003 draft where we traded the pick for Roaf we selected:

LJ
Kawika Mitchell
Julian Battle
Brett Williams
Jordan Black
Jimmy Wilkerson

Wow that is pretty horrible outside of LJ who is about done

Chocolate Hog
08-25-2009, 10:15 PM
So basically because Carl sucks we should celebrate a flawed thing he did because something is better than nothing?

Not sure I understand what you're talking about. The trade for Roaf by itself was a good.

aturnis
08-25-2009, 10:15 PM
If the Chiefs had drafted the players they should of instead of worrying about trying to get Dick Vermiel a playoff win we wouldn't be in the situation we are today.

That team reached and reached for players because of what DV wanted.

I believe Dick Vermiel was brought in as a last chance effort to bring Lamar Hunt a Superbowl trophy before he died. After he died, the team was blown up.

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 10:15 PM
He's no Drew Brees.

Who was in that same motherfucking draft.

Fuck. You. DV.

Yeah, that's just fucking insane.

FUCK YOU, DICK!

Mecca
08-25-2009, 10:15 PM
Eric Downing instead of Steve Smith was an awesome pick too.

They probably took Minnis ahead of him too which is hilarious cause Smiths one knock was he was small...and well what the fuck was Minnis?

Mecca
08-25-2009, 10:17 PM
The O was built that way not so sure on the D.

If you go back and look at the 2003 draft where we traded the pick for Roaf we selected:

LJ
Kawika Mitchell
Julian Battle
Brett Williams
Jordan Black
Jimmy Wilkerson

Wow that is pretty horrible outside of LJ who is about done

And LJ is a bad pick when you realize the Chiefs traded out to let the Steelers have Polamalu.

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 10:17 PM
The O was built that way not so sure on the D.

If you go back and look at the 2003 draft where we traded the pick for Roaf we selected:

LJ
Kawika Mitchell
Julian Battle
Brett Williams
Jordan Black
Jimmy Wilkerson

Wow that is pretty horrible outside of LJ who is about done

Williams, Black and Wilkerson didn't amount the dump I just took.

The Defense was absolutely built the same way, except that they got shitty results.

Kendrell Bell, Shawn Barber, Deon Fuckface, Vonnie Holliday, etc.

Need I go on?

Mecca
08-25-2009, 10:18 PM
The Chiefs gave Woods and Wesley a bunch of money not to leave, they had no desire to go with young talent.

DV didn't want that he was old, hell he didn't want to learn new players names.

Chocolate Hog
08-25-2009, 10:19 PM
They probably took Minnis ahead of him too which is hilarious cause Smiths one knock was he was small...and well what the **** was Minnis?

Nm Smith was drafted 1 pick ahead of Downing. However TJ Housyourgonzalez was a 7th round pick that year. So...

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 10:19 PM
The Chiefs gave Woods and Wesley a bunch of money not to leave, they had no desire to go with young talent.

DV didn't want that he was old, hell he didn't want to learn new players names.

Johnny Johnson anyone?

DeezNutz
08-25-2009, 10:19 PM
hell he didn't want to learn new players names.

ROFL

DeezNutz
08-25-2009, 10:20 PM
But it was sure fun to watch the offense score all those shiny points!

Pretty.

Mecca
08-25-2009, 10:20 PM
Nm Smith was drafted 1 pick ahead of Downing. However TJ Housyourgonzalez was a 7th round pick that year. So...

Sad thing about that, I was a big fan of Houshmanzadeh in college I thought he was a sleeper guy.

I've been wrong about alot of players but he's one of my true gem calls.

Chocolate Hog
08-25-2009, 10:21 PM
Anyway theres no way the Pioli/Haley regime can be as bad as the Peterson/Vermiel or Peterson/Edwards regime. Thats one reason to be excited about football.

Raised On Riots
08-25-2009, 10:21 PM
I still can't get over we traded a top 15 pick for a QB that played 5 years and people think it was a great move.

I get so...fucking...irritated when I hear guys like Petro cite Green as being a proper bench mark for Cassel!

God DAMN that burns my skillet! It filters down to the true fans and lowers the overall culture that Pioli and Haley are trying to establish.

Don't give me two good seasons and disappear, motherfucker! I DON'T WANT THAT, AND NEITHER SHOULD ANYONE ELSE!

Mecca
08-25-2009, 10:22 PM
But it was sure fun to watch the offense score all those shiny points!

Pretty.

That wasn't even my problem my problem was this team didn't put itself in any kind of good spot.

They were so desperate to fix the D they would shun O players they should have drafted, the one they did pick was a RB which alone made it a questionable pick.

What if this team takes Aaron Rodgers and Santonio Holmes instead of Johnson and Hali, you know how much better of a position it's in?

Raised On Riots
08-25-2009, 10:22 PM
Very enjoyable.

Please excuse me for a little bit while I go shove my toothbrush up my cock, another hobby I take great pleasure in.

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

Mecca
08-25-2009, 10:23 PM
Anyway theres no way the Pioli/Haley regime can be as bad as the Peterson/Vermiel or Peterson/Edwards regime. Thats one reason to be excited about football.

Anything is possible...

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 10:23 PM
Anyway theres no way the Pioli/Haley regime can be as bad as the Peterson/Vermiel or Peterson/Edwards regime. Thats one reason to be excited about football.

In the long run? Hopefully not.

In the short term? This team is going to be bad.

And I don't mean Samuel L. Jackson bad to the motherfucking bone.

I mean bad as in the Deeetroit Lions of 2008.

Bad.

Chocolate Hog
08-25-2009, 10:24 PM
Anything is possible...

I don't know dude it would seem like you almost have to try to be that bad. I was pretty young during the Gunther/Vermiel days so my knowledge of football wasn't great but during the Herm years I could predict what moves weren't going to work and most of them were right.

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 10:24 PM
Williams, Black and Wilkerson didn't amount the dump I just took.

The Defense was absolutely built the same way, except that they got shitty results.

Kendrell Bell, Shawn Barber, Deon Fuckface, Vonnie Holliday, etc.

Need I go on?

The oldest player starting on that D was Jerome. The rest were all under 30. They still sucked though.

In fact if you look at the 2003 Chiefs D only 2 starters on that D weren't drafted by the Chiefs. Barber and Holiday

Mecca
08-25-2009, 10:25 PM
You know what I find odd?

How the Chiefs constantly traded picks for older players, reached for need repeatedly and got burned and some Chiefs fans still don't understand how those 2 things fucked the team for years.

Those 2 things alone are why the Chiefs have exactly 0 cornerstone players today.

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 10:25 PM
But it was sure fun to watch the offense score all those shiny points!

Pretty.

It was actually.

Chocolate Hog
08-25-2009, 10:25 PM
In the long run? Hopefully not.

In the short term? This team is going to be bad.

And I don't mean Samuel L. Jackson bad to the mother****ing bone.

I mean bad as in the Deeetroit Lions of 2008.

Bad.

Yuck. I'll be glad with 4-6 wins I don't expect much just want to see some guys contribute like Mays, Succop, O'Connel, Jackson, Magee, Cassel.

Mecca
08-25-2009, 10:26 PM
The oldest player starting on that D was Jerome. The rest were all under 30. They still sucked though.

In fact if you look at the 2003 Chiefs D only 2 starters on that D weren't drafted by the Chiefs. Barber and Holiday

They repeatedly made bad decisions about "who was good enough to play" and what FA's to target this team signed Shawn Barber over Takeo Spikes when they got basically the same money.

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 10:29 PM
They repeatedly made bad decisions about "who was good enough to play" and what FA's to target this team signed Shawn Barber over Takeo Spikes when they got basically the same money.

They didn't need a middle LB they drafted Kawika :)

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 10:29 PM
In fact if you look at the 2003 Chiefs D only 2 starters on that D weren't drafted by the Chiefs. Barber and Holiday

You forgot Dexter McCleon, Quintin Caver and Corey Harris but if anything, it shows the Chiefs supreme lack of scouting and drafting ability.

DaneMcCloud
08-25-2009, 10:30 PM
Yuck. I'll be glad with 4-6 wins I don't expect much just want to see some guys contribute like Mays, Succop, O'Connel, Jackson, Magee, Cassel.

If you temper your enthusiasm to 2-3 games, you'll probably have more fun on Sundays.

DeezNutz
08-25-2009, 10:30 PM
It was actually.

In isolation, sure.

But I don't really enjoy a flawed team.

DV teams were weakly constructed facades. They sure looked great, but the actual production was sorely lacking.

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 10:32 PM
You forgot Dexter McCleon, Quintin Caver and Corey Harris but if anything, it shows the Chiefs supreme lack of scouting and drafting ability.

Did McCleon start or did Bartee shit I can't remember?

Here is the starters with McCleon

Jerome Woods
Greg Wesley
Eric Drunk Warfield
Dexter McCleon
Fujita
Kawika
Barber
Eric Hicks
Vonnie Holliday
Ryan Sims
John Browning

aturnis
08-25-2009, 10:32 PM
Again, Dick Vermiel was brought in as a last chance effort to bring Lamar Hunt a Superbowl trophy before he died. After he died, the team was blown up.

Ignore that fact if you want though.

Mecca
08-25-2009, 10:34 PM
Again, Dick Vermiel was brought in as a last chance effort to bring Lamar Hunt a Superbowl trophy before he died. After he died, the team was blown up.

Ignore that fact if you want though.

So basically Lamar Hunt being on his death bed is why the Chiefs made a bunch of really stupid short sighted decisions?

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 10:35 PM
In isolation, sure.

But I don't really enjoy a flawed team.

DV teams were weakly constructed facades. They sure looked great, but the actual production was sorely lacking.

We had 2/3 of a really fucking great team. I just get pissed now thinking about how much talent we wasted even if it was fairly old.

Mecca
08-25-2009, 10:37 PM
We had 2/3 of a really fucking great team. I just get pissed now thinking about how much talent we wasted even if it was fairly old.

And if instead of trying to fix the defense by throwing a bunch of money and picks at it regardless of how stupid they were...they would have drafted properly, we'd have never gotten to 2-14...

We'd have transitioned into a young team that still had talent.

Raised On Riots
08-25-2009, 10:39 PM
So basically Lamar Hunt being on his death bed is why the Chiefs made a bunch of really stupid short sighted decisions?

In short, yes.

aturnis
08-25-2009, 10:41 PM
So basically Lamar Hunt being on his death bed is why the Chiefs made a bunch of really stupid short sighted decisions?

Fucking duh.

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 10:43 PM
And if instead of trying to fix the defense by throwing a bunch of money and picks at it regardless of how stupid they were...they would have drafted properly, we'd have never gotten to 2-14...

We'd have transitioned into a young team that still had talent.

Probably true. Oh well Pioli has turned over half the roster already so hopefully we will get back to being competitive and having a shot at the SB in the next few years.

Mecca
08-25-2009, 10:43 PM
Fucking duh.

That is retarded, unless they were going to spend Redskin money in FA that approach was destined to fail...

The Chiefs would have a solid young team getting ready to go to the next level today had they taken the proper players.

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 10:44 PM
Again, Dick Vermiel was brought in as a last chance effort to bring Lamar Hunt a Superbowl trophy before he died. After he died, the team was blown up.

Ignore that fact if you want though.

Which is ok by me if that is how he wanted to go out I can't fault him for that. He definitely earned it.

Mecca
08-25-2009, 10:45 PM
Probably true. Oh well Pioli has turned over half the roster already so hopefully we will get back to being competitive and having a shot at the SB in the next few years.

All I'm going to say is the Chiefs were an old team, a smart GM would have looked at it that way and realized a few players weren't going to open that window in the AFC..

If they had realized that the Chiefs today could feature a roster that had..

Aaron Rodgers
Dwayne Bowe
Santonio Holmes
Tony Gonzalez
Marcus McNeil
Brian Waters

to name a few...I think that would put us in a much better spot than we currently stand.

Raised On Riots
08-25-2009, 10:46 PM
Which is ok by me if that is how he wanted to go out I can't fault him for that. He definitely earned it.

Add to that Carl's penchant for ineptitude, and the downfall was all but guaranteed.

Mecca
08-25-2009, 10:48 PM
Also when I talk short sightedness...Vermiel didn't like John Tait, he didn't like Carl, everyone knew he was going to bolt when he had the chance...

If they had any kind of foresight at all, when he's going into the last year of his contract you take an OT in the 2nd or 3rd round to prepare for a year to take over for him. The fact that they didn't do that boggled my mind.

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 10:49 PM
Add to that Carl's penchant for ineptitude, and the downfall was all but guaranteed.

Maybe but it is his team and if he knew he was going to die soon I can't blame him for trying to get one last trophy. If it was me I would go for broke and spend a shit load of money to make it happen who cares about the future.