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View Full Version : Chiefs Is there a rule about how many QB's to carry?


Luke
08-24-2009, 10:54 PM
Considering the sad state of our O-line, I wonder if there is a rule against having 4 QB's on the final 53 man roster? I feel reasonably sure Thigpen will be gone only to be snatched up by some NFC team.:doh!:

It would appear that Succop may be revalant after all. It is refreshing to see kickoffs go past the 10 yard line.:clap:

Reerun_KC
08-24-2009, 10:56 PM
Losing Thigpen isnt going to kill this franchise...

Iowanian
08-24-2009, 11:05 PM
I think they'll trade 1 for a conditional pick, or at least attempt to do so.

I think Thigpen is out of luck in KC, hopefully someone else will like him enough to not wait for the BIDDING WAAAAAAAAAAR!!! of FA.

chiefzilla1501
08-24-2009, 11:09 PM
Considering the sad state of our O-line, I wonder if there is a rule against having 4 QB's on the final 53 man roster? I feel reasonably sure Thigpen will be gone only to be snatched up by some NFC team.:doh!:

It would appear that Succop may be revalant after all. It is refreshing to see kickoffs go past the 10 yard line.:clap:

It's not advised against, but when you're a young team, you need every roster spot you can get.

I agree. Thigpen will get snatched up. Guttierrez will not. I don't understand why people are so convinced that Guttierez is any good. If Thigpen is cut, it will be because Haley decided to only keep 2 QBs, which is entirely possible. But I highly doubt that if he keeps 2 QBs, he's going to rely on the most fragile QB on earth to be the safety seal.

KCrockaholic
08-25-2009, 01:14 AM
Would someone like to explain why Thigpen is sooo much worse than Guttierrez or even Croyle for that matter....

KcMizzou
08-25-2009, 01:26 AM
Would someone like to explain why Thigpen is sooo much worse than Guttierrez or even Croyle for that matter....It's mainly the lack of being able to throw a respectable forward pass.

KCrockaholic
08-25-2009, 01:30 AM
It's mainly the lack of being able to throw a respectable forward pass.

I understand hes not a perfect passer. Not many QBs are, but Thigpen has something the other back-ups dont have. He has the ability to make plays with his feet on 3rd down when all the receivers are covered. He also plays with heart which is rarely seen anymore at the profesional level. Thigpen deserves to be the #2 QB infront of Croyle until I see other wise during a game. Brodie has not shown me the ability to drive us downfield like Thigpen has at whatever cost necessary.

salame
08-25-2009, 01:53 AM
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/8356/funny1558tg8.jpg

LaChapelle
08-25-2009, 06:12 AM
This whole roster is like Succup's camp competition. They lack of talent has the whole team competing with who ever is available walking the street, or by trade.

There are plenty of QBs available during the season for team trying to scrape to 3 wins or better.

JD10367
08-25-2009, 06:16 AM
There is no rule. Belichick kept Tom Brady as a 4th QB in his first year, IIRC. (I think the depth chart was Drew Bledsoe, John Friesz, Michael Bishop, and Tom Brady.)

As I've said elsewhere, I think your depth chart will be Cassel, Croyle, Thigpen, with Gutierrez to the PS. Gutes would easily clear waivers, Thigpen wouldn't. Thigpen, for better or worse, has already started in the NFL and knows your offense so, as a #3 QB, you can't get any better. He won't net much in a trade, and he's not getting $10M a year, so I don't think he's going anywhere.

Deberg_1990
08-25-2009, 06:16 AM
I understand hes not a perfect passer. Not many QBs are, but Thigpen has something the other back-ups dont have. He has the ability to make plays with his feet on 3rd down when all the receivers are covered. He also plays with heart which is rarely seen anymore at the profesional level. Thigpen deserves to be the #2 QB infront of Croyle until I see other wise during a game. Brodie has not shown me the ability to drive us downfield like Thigpen has at whatever cost necessary.


Honestly if we get down to either Croyle or Thigpen we are in a world of hurt.

I dont trust either one.

Norman Einstein
08-25-2009, 06:25 AM
Losing Thigpen isnt going to kill this franchise...

Considering he had some meager success with a shitty team tells me that if there was a good team around him there would be a world of difference. What would he have done if he had been the replacement for Brady last year? 11-5 maybe? Croyle is fragile, Thigpen isn't. Can't say much about anyone else. Cassle might be better than I think, but he doesn't have any history outside of playing with an exceptional team after their #1 guy went down.

ClevelandBronco
08-25-2009, 06:30 AM
There's no rule when you have Orton and Simms.

Slainte
08-25-2009, 06:42 AM
You're not allowed to have 54 QB's on your roster after the final cuts.

LaChapelle
08-25-2009, 06:43 AM
I don't get the Gutierrez love either.

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-25-2009, 09:16 AM
Honestly if we get down to either Croyle or Thigpen we are in a world of hurt.

I dont trust either one.

Most teams would say the same thing if they lost the starter.

CoMoChief
08-25-2009, 09:23 AM
Considering the sad state of our O-line, I wonder if there is a rule against having 4 QB's on the final 53 man roster? I feel reasonably sure Thigpen will be gone only to be snatched up by some NFC team.:doh!:

It would appear that Succop may be revalant after all. It is refreshing to see kickoffs go into the endzone.:clap:

fyp

CoMoChief
08-25-2009, 09:24 AM
If Croyle stays healthy I actually think he can be a solid backup QB.

If the coaches let him throw it around a little bit.......he has a fucking hand cannon for an arm.


Remember people a QB was Herm's worst nightmare.

jidar
08-25-2009, 09:33 AM
He also plays with heart which is rarely seen anymore at the profesional level.



I really hate to see this sort of cliched complaint spewed as if it were a fact.

Luke
08-25-2009, 01:15 PM
No, seriously, it is refreshing to see kickoffs go past the 10 yard line,and into the endzone. We might actually see a kickoff go out of the endzone.:D

So evidently there is no actual NFL rule on how many players at one position to carry. Coaches discretion I guess. 50 QB's,1 kicker, 1 punter, 1 WR, as long as 49 QB's "have heart" and can block. Maybe we can ger Jeff Garcia from waivers next week!ROFL

Consistent1
08-25-2009, 01:21 PM
There is some league emergency QB rule, but it applies to a third QB being available. I saw it in an article about Vick the other day. The Eagles want Vick to be able to play under any circumstances. If they tried to put him in under that rule, the other two QB's would not be able to play any more in the game once he went in. It can give you an extra 3rd QB for an emergency. It would not cover four. They don't have four guys to keep anyway. Just flip a coin with the last two choices.

KCtotheSB
08-25-2009, 01:40 PM
This whole roster is like Succup's camp competition. They lack of talent has the whole team competing with who ever is available walking the street, or by trade.

There are plenty of QBs available during the season for team trying to scrape to 3 wins or better.

2 goalposts, 1 Succop

KCtotheSB
08-25-2009, 01:42 PM
...and I am starting to suspect that Tyler Thigpen raped, pillaged and plundered every ChiefsPlanet members home village before making his way into the NFL. I have more faith in Thigpen moving the offense if Cassel goes down than Croyle and Gutierrez. He's done it before several times and that's more than what I can say for "Handle with Care" and the relatively unknown Gutierrez.

Dicky McElephant
08-25-2009, 01:43 PM
Considering he had some meager success with a shitty team tells me that if there was a good team around him there would be a world of difference. What would he have done if he had been the replacement for Brady last year? 11-5 maybe? Croyle is fragile, Thigpen isn't. Can't say much about anyone else. Cassle might be better than I think, but he doesn't have any history outside of playing with an exceptional team after their #1 guy went down.

Did you just fucking say that Thigpen would have gone 11-5 on the Patriots last year?

Thigpen sucks in a pro offense. We had to install the spread just for him to succeed marginally.

KCrockaholic
08-25-2009, 02:04 PM
Considering he had some meager success with a shitty team tells me that if there was a good team around him there would be a world of difference. What would he have done if he had been the replacement for Brady last year? 11-5 maybe? Croyle is fragile, Thigpen isn't. Can't say much about anyone else. Cassle might be better than I think, but he doesn't have any history outside of playing with an exceptional team after their #1 guy went down.

You see...You stick up for Thigpen because your relatively new to CP post-wise. These guys that have been here a while have kind of formed a gang to hate on Thigpen when in reality hes a young durable QB that just finds ways to make plays...Thigpen cant help it if our defense sucked last year and only allowed him to win one game. Our offense with Thigpen was right in the middle of the pack. With Huard we where one of the worst. It would be stupid to release Thigpen. A great back-up is in our lap, and we are just going to throw him away? And have Croyle as our back-up? Sure Croyle has a great arm. Hes fairly accurate, hes always had upside, but he cant scamble. He doesnt know how to make plays when in a clutch situation. He will be injured everytime he gets hit... Guttirrez probably should not make the team unless we carry 4 QBs. So, somebody tell me why Croyle is so much better than Tyler? What has Brodie shown that makes you think hes better than Thigpen, other than his throwing is more perfected than Tyler?

Fish
08-25-2009, 02:06 PM
I understand hes not a perfect passer. Not many QBs are, but Thigpen has something the other back-ups dont have. He has the ability to make plays with his feet on 3rd down when all the receivers are covered. He also plays with heart which is rarely seen anymore at the profesional level. Thigpen deserves to be the #2 QB infront of Croyle until I see other wise during a game. Brodie has not shown me the ability to drive us downfield like Thigpen has at whatever cost necessary.

Those are both incredibly overrated attributes for a starting QB in the NFL. Making plays with your feet is not something you strive for your QB to do. I have a feeling if you asked a QB coach, he'd tell you that he prefers the QB to never have to scramble. If a team wanted a RB at the QB position, then we'd see that trend. But the best QBs are the pocket QBs who excel at throwing, not running. And "Heart" is an over-used and meaningless attribute contributed to players who are lacking in other capabilities. If a coach claims that a player has heart, you can bet that the player sucks at some other skill necessary for the position. Having heart is a catch-all phrase to use when you can't compliment the player for the normal stuff.

KCrockaholic
08-25-2009, 02:16 PM
Those are both incredibly overrated attributes for a starting QB in the NFL. Making plays with your feet is not something you strive for your QB to do. I have a feeling if you asked a QB coach, he'd tell you that he prefers the QB to never have to scramble. If a team wanted a RB at the QB position, then we'd see that trend. But the best QBs are the pocket QBs who excel at throwing, not running. And "Heart" is an over-used and meaningless attribute contributed to players who are lacking in other capabilities. If a coach claims that a player has heart, you can bet that the player sucks at some other skill necessary for the position. Having heart is a catch-all phrase to use when you can't compliment the player for the normal stuff.

I think most people would rather have a pocket QB, including myself. But what im saying is, with our piss poor receivers they have a hard time beating the jam and getting open. Thigpen CAN run when he NEEDS to. He doesnt do it just to do it like Vick did early in his career, or McNabb. Of course he will throw the ball if somebody is open, but that extra factor of being able to run the ball is valuable in key situations. Brett Favre has always played with "heart" and hes had a pretty good career. When I say Thigpen plays with heart what im saying he actually shows emotion after a touchdown like he cares. How many other QBs arent afraid to jump up and down and celebrate because he actually cares that his team is winning? Favre is one of those guys. In the NFL its just not very often that you see that. Most guys are too worried about what their next TD celebration will be. Roy Williams for example is a guy who doesnt give a damn about winning. He just wants his stats and touchdowns.

Fish
08-25-2009, 02:32 PM
I think most people would rather have a pocket QB, including myself. But what im saying is, with our piss poor receivers they have a hard time beating the jam and getting open. Thigpen CAN run when he NEEDS to. He doesnt do it just to do it like Vick did early in his career, or McNabb. Of course he will throw the ball if somebody is open, but that extra factor of being able to run the ball is valuable in key situations. Brett Favre has always played with "heart" and hes had a pretty good career. When I say Thigpen plays with heart what im saying he actually shows emotion after a touchdown like he cares. How many other QBs arent afraid to jump up and down and celebrate because he actually cares that his team is winning? Favre is one of those guys. In the NFL its just not very often that you see that. Most guys are too worried about what their next TD celebration will be. Roy Williams for example is a guy who doesnt give a damn about winning. He just wants his stats and touchdowns.

Thigpen's best attribute is one that you'd rather only see out of necessity. And throwing accuracy isn't one of his strong points, when that's the biggest factor in QB success. Running is indeed valuable, but being able to zing the ball to a well-covered WR in a spot where only the WR can get it is a much more valuable attribute. That's why Croyle is #2.

Emotion after a TD is irrelevent. It contributes absolutely nothing to the team's success other than giving the fans something to be proud of and cheer for. And you can certainly give a damn about winning without jumping up and down and making a scene. And too much emotion can negatively affect performance. The opposite is not true. I'm not saying I prefer robots out on the field. But whether they jump up and down after doing something right is the least important part IMO. Samie Parker celebrated better than anyone I've ever seen. He certainly played with a lot of heart. His pro bowl appearances were rather lacking though.

JD10367
08-25-2009, 03:05 PM
There is some league emergency QB rule, but it applies to a third QB being available. I saw it in an article about Vick the other day. The Eagles want Vick to be able to play under any circumstances. If they tried to put him in under that rule, the other two QB's would not be able to play any more in the game once he went in. It can give you an extra 3rd QB for an emergency. It would not cover four. They don't have four guys to keep anyway. Just flip a coin with the last two choices.

It's confusing, but I think it goes like this: on game day, they have a 45-man roster. The other 8 are inactive. But, if they only have two QBs on the 45-man roster, a third QB--one of that group of 8--can be used in a game... but if he's used before the 4th quarter, the other 2 QBs CANNOT play.

Now, one easy way around this is to simply carry three active QBs on game day on the 45-man squad. That means all 8 inactives are truly inactive. Not really that big of a deal, unless you have a very deep football team and you think all 45 guys can contribute. If you carry three active QBs, I think you can play them whenever you want.

The muddling point is what you call a player. Let's take the Pats as an example, since they're the team I'm a fan of. They drafted Julian Edelman and have been working him at WR and in the return game. But he was a college QB. So, if they list his position at WR, and use him almost exclusively as a WR, they can probably get away with putting him under center for a few wildcat-type plays. Vick, on the other hand, is a "known" QB, so the NFL might not allow them to do that.

Of course, they can eliminate all this confusing stupidity by simply doing away with the inactives, and letting a team use all 53 of its players. In today's game, with the speed and violence, higher talent levels than those of bygone days, and specificness of some of the players' jobs, I think it's time to just kill that rule.

Consistent1
08-25-2009, 03:27 PM
It's confusing, but I think it goes like this: on game day, they have a 45-man roster. The other 8 are inactive. But, if they only have two QBs on the 45-man roster, a third QB--one of that group of 8--can be used in a game... but if he's used before the 4th quarter, the other 2 QBs CANNOT play.

Now, one easy way around this is to simply carry three active QBs on game day on the 45-man squad. That means all 8 inactives are truly inactive. Not really that big of a deal, unless you have a very deep football team and you think all 45 guys can contribute. If you carry three active QBs, I think you can play them whenever you want.

The muddling point is what you call a player. Let's take the Pats as an example, since they're the team I'm a fan of. They drafted Julian Edelman and have been working him at WR and in the return game. But he was a college QB. So, if they list his position at WR, and use him almost exclusively as a WR, they can probably get away with putting him under center for a few wildcat-type plays. Vick, on the other hand, is a "known" QB, so the NFL might not allow them to do that.

Of course, they can eliminate all this confusing stupidity by simply doing away with the inactives, and letting a team use all 53 of its players. In today's game, with the speed and violence, higher talent levels than those of bygone days, and specificness of some of the players' jobs, I think it's time to just kill that rule.

I agree they should just all be active. My take was that they could either keep Vick as an active player and leave off somebody who might be more accustomed to special teams, or use him in that emergency role. Obviously, he is different than anybody else due to potential uses. It sounded like to me that he could be active, or only used as an emergency QB if the other two went down. If Vick went in at all other than to replace both of the higher on the depth QB's, it messed everything up. The Chiefs could still use that deal to keep one of the four available. There isn't any way this team should keep four QB's though. I think the 2 and an emergency guy would be better for this team. They need all the players they can get available.

Norman Einstein
08-25-2009, 05:58 PM
Did you just ****ing say that Thigpen would have gone 11-5 on the Patriots last year?

Thigpen sucks in a pro offense. We had to install the spread just for him to succeed marginally.

So you are saying that you would have rather had Huard in the offense and failing on every HS play they ran?

Thigpen is not as bad as you perceive he is. The OC changed up to take advantage of his strengths and because of that we were actually in manyof the games he played in. Would he have gone 11-5? Who knows, but I think with the ability he has that he just might have had as good of a year as Cassel did. At any rate he is not the throw away QB you think he is. No way, not now, not last year.

Norman Einstein
08-25-2009, 06:01 PM
You see...You stick up for Thigpen because your relatively new to CP post-wise. These guys that have been here a while have kind of formed a gang to hate on Thigpen when in reality hes a young durable QB that just finds ways to make plays...Thigpen cant help it if our defense sucked last year and only allowed him to win one game. Our offense with Thigpen was right in the middle of the pack. With Huard we where one of the worst. It would be stupid to release Thigpen. A great back-up is in our lap, and we are just going to throw him away? And have Croyle as our back-up? Sure Croyle has a great arm. Hes fairly accurate, hes always had upside, but he cant scamble. He doesnt know how to make plays when in a clutch situation. He will be injured everytime he gets hit... Guttirrez probably should not make the team unless we carry 4 QBs. So, somebody tell me why Croyle is so much better than Tyler? What has Brodie shown that makes you think hes better than Thigpen, other than his throwing is more perfected than Tyler?

I'm new at posting, but not new as a devoted Chiefs fan. Thigpen is not as bad as some want to think. Most likely he will be released before the season starts with a hope that he can hang around for the practice squad. That will never happen.

Last year if there would have been a HC that was actually HC material the Chiefs would have wone more games than they did. HE always played not to lose the game, he did not have the ability to go for the gold.

KCrockaholic
08-25-2009, 07:15 PM
Thigpen's best attribute is one that you'd rather only see out of necessity. And throwing accuracy isn't one of his strong points, when that's the biggest factor in QB success. Running is indeed valuable, but being able to zing the ball to a well-covered WR in a spot where only the WR can get it is a much more valuable attribute. That's why Croyle is #2.

Emotion after a TD is irrelevent. It contributes absolutely nothing to the team's success other than giving the fans something to be proud of and cheer for. And you can certainly give a damn about winning without jumping up and down and making a scene. And too much emotion can negatively affect performance. The opposite is not true. I'm not saying I prefer robots out on the field. But whether they jump up and down after doing something right is the least important part IMO. Samie Parker celebrated better than anyone I've ever seen. He certainly played with a lot of heart. His pro bowl appearances were rather lacking though.


I understand this, and it may be true. But my point is that none of the other back-ups other than Guitterrez's short drive have been able to drive our team down the field. I dont care how they it done as long as they get it done. Thigpen gets it done. Thigpen is the guy that comes in and rallies the team to attempt a scoring drive when the entire game we may have sucked. Hes been doing it in preseason games since his rookie year. He may not be your ordinary QB, but your ordinary QB doesnt always know how to make things happen to score. Thigpen has shown time and time again that he has the ability to do that. I can only think of a couple times that Croyle was able to drive us downfield on a nice drive and score. Sure hes been hurt is entire career but when he does come in and play he doesnt have the "it" factor to make things happen like Thigpen or even Cassel for that matter.

KCrockaholic
08-25-2009, 07:19 PM
I'm new at posting, but not new as a devoted Chiefs fan. Thigpen is not as bad as some want to think. Most likely he will be released before the season starts with a hope that he can hang around for the practice squad. That will never happen.

Last year if there would have been a HC that was actually HC material the Chiefs would have wone more games than they did. HE always played not to lose the game, he did not have the ability to go for the gold.

I completely agree with this. Incase some of you guys didnt notice. In the first half of our games which is when Gailey was able to make the shots and call whatever he likes we scored points. Thigpen made plays, we passed well. In the second half our offense would come out and shit on themselves. Herm would give them some retarded halftime speech then tell Gailey ok now we can play it safe, we dont need to score anymore points, thats arena football. We would then go on to lose the game. I see absolutely no reason at all for KC to cut Thigpen. If we do, some team like Denver, or Oakland will pick him up and we will have to deal with that crap twice a year.