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dirk digler
08-25-2009, 01:29 PM
Watching it now...

Wow what to say. McCain believes all Americans have a right to affordable health care.

Also believes allegations against ACORN are false LMAO That got a huge boo

Chocolate Hog
08-25-2009, 01:37 PM
McCain the guy who was on John Kerrys veep list?

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 01:38 PM
He was railing on the pharm industry and how they have hijacked this process. Can't disagree with him on that

Chocolate Hog
08-25-2009, 01:43 PM
He probably gets campagin donations from them too.

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 01:46 PM
He probably gets campagin donations from them too.

That or he gets them from the insurance lobby since he hasn't really mentioned them at all

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 01:47 PM
McCain: This bill doesn't give illegals any free healthcare LMAO

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 01:51 PM
My solution to fix health care. Have a commission LMAO

I give McCain credit he is standing up and defending to fix health care and not the whackos that are in this crowd

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 01:56 PM
McCain: Gitmo is a symbol of torture all across the world

Relaying a story about what a terrorist told him about his best way to recruit more terrorists. The terrorist said it was Abu Gharib

KC Dan
08-25-2009, 01:57 PM
He also said that the co-op idea is a GCE like Fannie and Freddie and a backdoor to single-payer. Tell it all Dirk...

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 01:57 PM
He also said that the co-op idea is a GCE like Fannie and Freddie and a backdoor to single-payer. Tell it all Dirk...

He did say that. I agree with him that is why I don't favor co-ops

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 02:03 PM
This lady speaking is preaching the gospel. None of the bozo's want to give up Medicare including McCain but the government running health care = bad LMAO dumbasses

KC Dan
08-25-2009, 02:07 PM
This lady speaking is preaching the gospel. None of the bozo's want to give up Medicare including McCain but the government running health care = bad LMAO dumbassesI take it a little further - she is speaking what MOST Americans believe, to give us the freedom to choose not mandate and take away freedom to choose. I think that older Americans that want to opt out of Medicare and have private insurance at 65 should be allowed.

My issue with this entire health plan is the removal of our FREEDOM TO CHOOSE for ourselves not have a bureaucrat mandate for me.

Chocolate Hog
08-25-2009, 02:18 PM
My solution to fix health care. Have a commission LMAO

I give McCain credit he is standing up and defending to fix health care and not the whackos that are in this crowd

Yea maybe if he would have done that when he was running for president he would be this countries president.

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 02:20 PM
I take it a little further - she is speaking what MOST Americans believe, to give us the freedom to choose not mandate and take away freedom to choose. I think that older Americans that want to opt out of Medicare and have private insurance at 65 should be allowed.

My issue with this entire health plan is the removal of our FREEDOM TO CHOOSE for ourselves not have a bureaucrat mandate for me.

When she asked if anyone was willing to give up Medicare they all booed her and said no. People love Medicare. If Obama was smart he would just extend Medicare to all it would pass easy.

Yea maybe if he would have done that when he was running for president he would be this countries president.

I lost alot of respect for McCain during this last election. He is slowly earning it back.

Mojo Jojo
08-25-2009, 02:30 PM
I believe that if McCain would have picked Lieberman as VP he would have won. McCain is too liberal for conservatives and Lieberman is too conservative for liberals. A match made for true change.

Putting those two style of personalities together is the only way a third party will ever present a challenge. It will no longer be pro gay marriage vs. pro life. It would be about running the country for all of us in the middle.

KC Dan
08-25-2009, 02:36 PM
When she asked if anyone was willing to give up Medicare they all booed her and said no. That would be a CHOICE. People love Medicare. If Obama was smart he would just extend Medicare to all it would pass easy. If no choice = fail, and the budget would explode


I lost alot of respect for McCain during this last election. He is slowly earning it back. I don't know about that. He's been in politics too long for me. His man-love for Teddy Kennedy is too much for me to take...

KILLER_CLOWN
08-25-2009, 02:36 PM
People love Medicare. Medicare to all it would pass easy.

I agree they don't need a 1200 page eugenics bill to pass, just offer medicare to all and tell those in washington to KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF THAT MONEY!

Taco John
08-25-2009, 02:39 PM
I agree they don't need a 1200 page eugenics bill to pass, just offer medicare to all and tell those in washington to KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF THAT MONEY!


ROFL

Chocolate Hog
08-25-2009, 02:39 PM
I believe that if McCain would have picked Lieberman as VP he would have won. McCain is too liberal for conservatives and Lieberman is too conservative for liberals. A match made for true change.

Putting those two style of personalities together is the only way a third party will ever present a challenge. It will no longer be pro gay marriage vs. pro life. It would be about running the country for all of us in the middle.

It says alot about the 2 party system in this country when McCain was on John Kerrys veep list and Liberman was on McCains veep list. Sorry Dirk I don't have alot to add about the healthcare debate kinda burnt out on it yanno?

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 02:41 PM
I don't know about that. He's been in politics too long for me. His man-love for Teddy Kennedy is too much for me to take...

There is no choice with medicare because you get it whether you like it or not

KC Dan
08-25-2009, 02:41 PM
There is no choice with medicare because you get it whether you like it or notI know...

KILLER_CLOWN
08-25-2009, 02:42 PM
ROFL

I know it's like telling a rapist can you please stop.

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 02:46 PM
I know...

I guess I am not following what you mean then

Donger
08-25-2009, 02:46 PM
When she asked if anyone was willing to give up Medicare they all booed her and said no. People love Medicare. If Obama was smart he would just extend Medicare to all it would pass easy.

Obama's going to make people old?

KC Dan
08-25-2009, 02:53 PM
I guess I am not following what you mean thenI get it that there is no choice about Medicare. Once you are 65, Boom - you're in. I don't like that. One should have the choice to opt out of it if they want to pay privately (especially since they probably worked their entire life to afford to do it).

Secondly, any bill with a gov't mandate for coverage - I disagree with. The gov't should not be in the business of mandating you to get health coverage or taxing you if you don't.

Finally, I vehemently disagree with ANY gov't run health plan other than seniors Medicare and Veteran care. Especially if you have no choice say a single-payer plan.

modocsot
08-25-2009, 03:00 PM
I get it that there is no choice about Medicare. Once you are 65, Boom - you're in. I don't like that. One should have the choice to opt out of it if they want to pay privately (especially since they probably worked their entire life to afford to do it).

Secondly, any bill with a gov't mandate for coverage - I disagree with. The gov't should not be in the business of mandating you to get health coverage or taxing you if you don't.

Finally, I vehemently disagree with ANY gov't run health plan other than seniors Medicare and Veteran care. Especially if you have no choice say a single-payer plan.

Medicare eligibles can opt out of Part B, which is the medical coverage. Part A covers hospitalization.

Donger
08-25-2009, 03:02 PM
Medicare eligibles can opt out of Part B, which is the medical coverage. Part A covers hospitalization.

Can they opt out of paying the taxes that pay for those who do not opt out?

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 03:05 PM
I get it that there is no choice about Medicare. Once you are 65, Boom - you're in. I don't like that. One should have the choice to opt out of it if they want to pay privately (especially since they probably worked their entire life to afford to do it).

Secondly, any bill with a gov't mandate for coverage - I disagree with. The gov't should not be in the business of mandating you to get health coverage or taxing you if you don't.

Finally, I vehemently disagree with ANY gov't run health plan other than seniors Medicare and Veteran care. Especially if you have no choice say a single-payer plan.

Ok I get what you are saying. I have said this before and people disagreed with me but I believe very few or any seniors or elderly could afford private health insurance without medicare. I looked it up and talked to my parents to get a supplemental medicare plan to cover the 20% that medicare doesn't pay runs between $250-700 a month depending on who you choose. I can't imagine what it would be if they that is all they had. But I really have no problem if they want to opt out and pay for it themselves. I just don't think many would.

Donger
08-25-2009, 03:11 PM
Ok I get what you are saying. I have said this before and people disagreed with me but I believe very few or any seniors or elderly could afford private health insurance without medicare. I looked it up and talked to my parents to get a supplemental medicare plan to cover the 20% that medicare doesn't pay runs between $250-700 a month depending on who you choose. I can't imagine what it would be if they that is all they had. But I really have no problem if they want to opt out and pay for it themselves. I just don't think many would.

Perhaps they could afford it if the government hadn't taken all that money in taxes over the years to fund Medicare?

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 03:16 PM
Medicare eligibles can opt out of Part B, which is the medical coverage. Part A covers hospitalization.

I don't know why anyone would. If you are retired you are pretty much stuck

This can get very confusing. First off, you cannot opt out of Medicare Part A.

Is your "other health care insurance program" a group plan or is it a Medicare Supplement or Medicare Advantage plan? If it is a group plan through an employer and you (or your spouse) are still working you can opt out of Part B if the group is larger than 20 employees. If it is a group plan and you (or your spouse) are retired and not working or if the group is 20 employees or less you cannot opt out without restrictions and penalties. This is because Medicare is primary in this situation and if you opt out of Part B your current plan will no longer pay. To correct the above answer it has nothing to do with your age.

If you have a Medicare Supplement or Medicare Advantage plan you cannot opt out of Part B. If you do you'll lose either of those plans. You must have both Part A and Part B for these plans.

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 03:18 PM
Perhaps they could afford it if the government hadn't taken all that money in taxes over the years to fund Medicare?

Probably not. One serious illness would wipe them out

Donger
08-25-2009, 03:22 PM
Probably not. One serious illness would wipe them out

What I am saying is that perhaps they could afford private coverage if all the money that was taken from them over the years to pay for Medicare was never taken. And, don't Medicare recipients still have to a pay premium?

KC Dan
08-25-2009, 03:24 PM
Ok I get what you are saying. I have said this before and people disagreed with me but I believe very few or any seniors or elderly could afford private health insurance without medicare. I looked it up and talked to my parents to get a supplemental medicare plan to cover the 20% that medicare doesn't pay runs between $250-700 a month depending on who you choose. I can't imagine what it would be if they that is all they had. But I really have no problem if they want to opt out and pay for it themselves. I just don't think many would.Agreed. But, they should have the CHOICE to be able to if they are so inclined.

Chiefshrink
08-25-2009, 03:29 PM
Not surprising at all. McCain chose not to fight in the election because he is a spineless moderate Republican who wants to be 'liked' by everybody(Libs and media). Such as he is doing now in this townhall only now to find out he is out of touch with the real world as well. Good riddance McCain! You are no conservative and please don't try to pretend to be one.

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 03:30 PM
What I am saying is that perhaps they could afford private coverage if all the money that was taken from them over the years to pay for Medicare was never taken. And, don't Medicare recipients still have to a pay premium?

I understand what you are saying but I don't think that amount would cover the cost. The medicare portion of FICA is like 1.45% IIRC and that was upped in the 90's.

I calculated my wage and it would be around $85 a month

Yes most people pay $96 a month in medicare premiums

Donger
08-25-2009, 03:48 PM
I understand what you are saying but I don't think that amount would cover the cost. The medicare portion of FICA is like 1.45% IIRC and that was upped in the 90's.

I calculated my wage and it would be around $85 a month

Yes most people pay $96 a month in medicare premiums

So, they would be able to afford private insurance if they had been allowed to opt out of paying the taxes to fund Medicare?

~$200/month?

dirk digler
08-25-2009, 03:57 PM
So, they would be able to afford private insurance if they had been allowed to opt out of paying the taxes to fund Medicare?

~$200/month?

I don't see how. Supplemental insurance is over $200 month and that only covers 20%.

Then you have to figure when they retire how are they going to pay for it off a $2000 SS check?

modocsot
08-25-2009, 03:59 PM
Can they opt out of paying the taxes that pay for those who do not opt out?

Medicare eligibles actually pay a premium for Part B, which is adjusted each year (goes up), and is deducted from their social security check. Current monthly premium is $96.40.

Donger
08-25-2009, 04:02 PM
I don't see how. Supplemental insurance is over $200 month and that only covers 20%.

Then you have to figure when they retire how are they going to pay for it off a $2000 SS check?

My point is that what would the scenario be for them if the government hadn't decided long ago that they were too stupid to manage their own retirement?

modocsot
08-25-2009, 04:10 PM
I don't know why anyone would. If you are retired you are pretty much stuck

True, but the option for opt-out is there. In addition, eligibles incur a Part B premium penalty (if they missed their open-election period) when they do finally enroll.

Yes, an eligible needs BOTH Parts A & B for a Medicare Supplement, or Part C (Medicare Advantage). However, only Part A and/or B for Part D coverage (drugs). How's that for confusing? Been doing this for the past 15 years, and still gives me a headache.

Pioli Zombie
08-25-2009, 06:38 PM
I believe that if McCain would have picked Lieberman as VP he would have won. McCain is too liberal for conservatives and Lieberman is too conservative for liberals. A match made for true change.

Putting those two style of personalities together is the only way a third party will ever present a challenge. It will no longer be pro gay marriage vs. pro life. It would be about running the country for all of us in the middle.

Quite possibly. He had a better chance of capturing the independants and winning if he shown the balls to tell the whackos to get bent and picked Lieberman. He would have won over a lot of the more conservative Dems and many of the right, with Obama the alternative, would have held their noses and voted for him. The problem with the far left and the far right is that they think they are more powerful than they are because they are represented every night on MSNBC and FOX. The truth is 70 percent of the country are resonable people who aren't represented by the whackos on both extremes.
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***SPRAYER
08-25-2009, 06:44 PM
McCain is an asshole. One reason why we wound up with a commie for president.

Interesting read

"READ IN CASE OF NATIONAL EMERGENCY"
by Blackie Lawless

“We the people of the United States’. These are the first 7 words of the Constitution of the United States of America. As I stood in the reception area of the Pentagon in Washington D.C. early this year, a large recreation of that Constitution was posted on the wall. It’s the first thing you see as you enter the building. “We the People of the United States”, I stared at it and said: “I’d die for that idea”!

I’ve written in the past, I love my country, but I’m scared to death of its government. That idea for me has taken a new twist in this coming election.

I’d first like to point out that I am not a John McCain supporter. I have been critical of the U. S. Government for years, and I, like most of my fellow Americans am angry and frustrated with the lying, manipulation and partisanship of the elected officials, both local and national, Democrat and Republican, of this country.

The Founding Fathers of this Country wrote this Constitution, with all it’s Amendments, as THE Cornerstone that this country would be governed by.

We Americans now find ourselves on the eve of, without a doubt, THE most important election of our lifetime.
In a time of World uncertainty, the volatility of the global financial Markets, the Middle East at war, Russia invading Georgia, Iran and North Korea attempting to develop nuclear weapons and with that Iran threatening to “Wipe Israel Off the Map”, the entire world is at a dangerous point in history.

I grew up and lived with the ideals and philosophy of the “Counter Culture” Generation. “Peace and Love”, “ Flower Power”, “Stop the War”, Never Trust anybody Over 30”.
“Stop the War” was absolutely correct! Vietnam was a disaster and more than 50,000 U. S. Soldiers died for that mistake.
But the rest was a load of naïve, idealist, “we can change the world”, CRAP!

Not that some of those sentiments weren’t a good idea. It’s just that this generation of self-serving, selfish, spoiled brats has now come of age. They are the ones that now have perpetuated the greed and the lies of the Wall Street Bailout and a laundry list of other political atrocities too numerous to mention. The weakness of true conviction to teach their children about the values and history of this Nation. Their children know nothing of Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Washington, Lincoln or the understanding that this Great Nation was built on the Dreams, the Tears, the back breaking Labor, the unending sacrifice and the Blood spilled by the generations before them that sacrificed their all, including the men and women that gave their lives, a
nd the ones that will give their lives in defense of this “Great Experiment”, this Great American Dream.If you don’t think so, go up to most any of their kids on the street and ask them about the Founding Fathers. More than likely they’ll think its some new rap group. It’s not just a glimpse into poor enlightenment. It’s an indictment on their parents.
The generation that was going to change the world certainly did. Their gluttony for botox, living on credit cards, busy being fabulous and its all about me, me, me cause I’m better than you. “All You Need is Love”…. I’m sorry pal, you missed the boat, all you really need is some guts and character. I’m disgusted and ashamed to be part of it.
Instead, that generation with their ‘Woodstock / Marxist” Scream - Dream are the ones which now control the majority of the mainstream media in this country. That includes almost all Television and almost all Newspapers. They are the ones that now bring the extreme liberal, radical 60’s utopian vision of their world to the American people. The extreme liberal bias of the mainstream American Media which are now controlled by these “Yuppies” have conspired to deceive, manipulate, suppress the truth, promote their candidate at all costs and bury any story that does not put a halo around the head of that candidate.
It is with this that the American People are brought Barak Obama.


This man is a product of that Extreme Leftist – Marxist movement that has been building in this country for over 40 years. He is a product of the Harvard far left. He is the face and mouthpiece of a movement that is Hell Bent on breaking up the U. S. Constitution and reassembling it to conform to their vision. He is a lawyer, the Democratic Johnny Cochran, in which every time he speaks gives a closing argument. He is the embodiment of the New Democratic Machine.

When I was a kid everyone I knew were Democrats, but these are not your fathers Democrats anymore. They are part of some liberal elite that looks down on the ideals that made this Country great.
This Leftist Machine has hidden the truth from the American People (and the World) and continues to deceive at any cost.
Right now, as I write, the L. A. Times Newspaper has a videotape, which it refuses to release to the American Public, which shows Obama at a farewell dinner celebration for the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO)
Spokesman Rashid Khalidi. He was also a spokesman for Yassir Arafat. In this tape are the recorded verbal attacks on Israel and the Israeli People and reference to Israel as a terrorist state. Reportedly, the Domestic terrorist Bill Ayres, who as part of the “Weather Underground” terrorist organization bombed several U. S. targets including the Pentagon and the home of a U. S. Judge and killing 2 policemen in the process, was also at this dinner. Obama has been close friends with Khalidi and Ayers for many years. The oath of President requires that the President will “protect the United States against all enemies, both Foreign AND Domestic”.
Guess he didnt read that part!

Now, what should be of utmost concern to the American People are the repeated denials by Obama, that he has no ties to any of these people. If he has nothing to hide why not be truthful with the American Public and request the L. A. Times to release this videotape for us all to see. If it turns out to be nothing then at least the truth will be served.
From Obama’s 20 year association with the Reverend Jeremiah Wright who has repeatedly said: ”It’s not God Bless America, No, No, No, Its God Damn America!
Obama sat in Wrights church and listened to this Treason for 20 years. Wright also performed Obama’s marriage and Baptized both of his children. Obama was an organizer for Acorn, the group now accused of massive voter registration fraud. Some working for Acorn have already been jailed for this. Obama was also Acorns lawyer for a time. Obama recently donated over $800,000 to Acorn.
He accuses Americans for “clinging to their guns and religion”.
Never in the history of the United States has any Presidential candidate had a shroud of controversy surround them as has Obama. If someone would have told me 2 years ago that anybody with these associations could get nominated for their party, or even dog catcher, much less President of the United States, I would have said your insane.
My reasons for starting this letter with the first line of the Constitution is to reference a radio interview Obama did in which he says the U. S. Supreme Court did not go far enough in attempting to provide reparations to African- Americans and that the Earl Warren edition of the Supreme Court was not liberal enough. That Court was probably the most liberal in U.S. history. It is not the job of the Supreme Court to be liberal or conservative. It is to interpret the Constitution… period. It is not to legislate from the bench based on the “general consensus of the people” as stated in a recent Supreme Court ruling, but rather to make its rulings based on the precise wording of the Constitution. If at some point “the people” wish to have any new amendment to the Constitution based on their modern day ideals, then all 50 states must ratify it….period.
This is the Obama quote from that interview with radio station WBEZ.FM in Chicago. This is not taken out of context. It is the entire quote:

“The Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth, and of more basic issues such as political and economic justice in society. To that extent, as radical as I think people try to characterize the Warren Court, it wasn’t that radical. It didn’t break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution, at least as its been interpreted and Warren Court interpreted in the same way, that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. Says what the states can’t do to you. Says what the Federal government can’t do to you, but doesn’t say what the Federal government or State government must do on your behalf, and that hasn’t shifted and one of the, I think, tragedies of the civil rights movement was, um, because the civil rights movement became so court focused I think there was a tendancy to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalition of powers through which you bring about redistributive change. In some ways we still suffer from that”.

These are things he would NEVER say in front of a national audience. He only says and does these things when he thinks his base group is listening. In this interview he is making it clear that if elected, he would nominate Supreme Court Justices that will put forth his agenda’s, “redistribution of wealth”, his idea of “economic justice” and “redistributive change” which are other words for reparations for slavery and a Marxist redistribution of wealth which is no more than welfare.
Thomas Jefferson wrote in The Declaration of Independence about ‘Life, Liberty and the PURSUIT of Happiness. This PURSUIT is not a guarantee of wealth or any form of happiness, but the chance to raise one-self up. This government never has, nor ever will, nor ever should provide for anything more than this.
It is ironic that Obama’s supporters so often refer to him as a new John F. Kennedy.
Senator Obama should be reminded that it was JFK in his inaugural address that said “Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for you country”.
That is the TRUE American Spirit !

On the issue of taxes, in effort to “spread the wealth around” he first defined the rich as making $300,000 then he said it was $250,000 then he said $200,000, then a few days ago Joe Biden said it would be $150,000. So, what’s the real number? This is more about him not being truthful with the public.
Will all of his tax schemes of taxing anyone who makes over $250,000 (or whatever it is) a year destroy our economy, yeah, just like Jimmy Carter did in the 70’s and Herbert Hoover before him. It’s not the individual that makes that much money that’s the issue. If this were only about individuals then that could be argued. But what he doesn’t tell you is what it does to businesses. Most any business that creates that much revenue MUST employ a number of people. If the business is taxed upwards of 30% or more then those jobs are gone…its that simple.

There have been a lot of charges about racism in this election from the Obama side. I personally have never been a racist. Any of you that know me, know I’ve said many times that after my Father, Muhammad Ali has been the biggest influence in my life.
But there definitely is racism in this election. 96 to 97% of African-Americans polled in this election say they will vote for Obama. Never in the history of this country has ANY candidate ever had such overwhelming numbers from any group. White, Black, Hispanic, Asian or other. The traveling Political, Racist, Circus called Acorn, which Obama worked with for years, is creating and sponsoring voter fraud across the country by registering illegal immigrants, the Dallas Cowboys and Mickey Mouse. This is no joke. Acorn has actually done this and much, much more. Their belief is win …. at any cost…. the Constitution be Dammed! If that’s not prejudice, I don’t know what is.

The books Obama has written about himself are very clear as to his true ambitions concerning his Leftist, Marxist views but the average person will not take the time to read them, In the 1920’s while in prison, a young Adolf Hitler wrote “Mein Kampf” (My Struggle) which outlined his entire plan for World Domination and the extermination of the Jewish race. No one would read it, and then when they did it was too late…. any book that was not approved by the Nazi Party was burned. The “Communist Manifesto” by Karl Marx at one time, was required reading in our schools. This book is Obama’s “How To” guide with his ideal of the “Redistribution of Wealth”. If you don’t think so, go back and look at the above radio interview. Somewhere Karl Marx with his Godless, Utopian vision is laughing in delight.

If it is true that “What is Past, is Prologue” then we need look no further than Obama’s books. His blueprint is there in black and white. Literally and figuratively.

I will vote for McCain, not because I believe in all he stands for, but as a mandate against Obama, to keep him from becoming President. Yes, I will cling to my guns and my religion, and continue to believe in the Constitution, the Cornerstone of our society and trust that this is STILL a ”Government of the People, By the People, For the People”.

The point of all this is, that no matter whatever any of us encounter in life, look for the truth. The truth can and will stand up to anything. If that truth cannot stand up to scrutiny then you must see it and call it for what it truly is.
If any would be Messiah comes along and he looks like it, acts like it and smells like it then you call him what he truly is… a Marxist, in Socialist clothing!

I challenge all Americans to go back and READ the Constitution of the United States, READ the Declaration of Independence.

Decide for Yourself

God Help Us. … God Bless America

I encourage anyone who understands this letter and is moved to action, to send this letter in an email to everyone you know, to all who will listen!