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View Full Version : U.S. Issues Senator Ted Kennedy has died


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Chocolate Hog
08-26-2009, 12:30 AM
Per Fox News

Reaper16
08-26-2009, 12:31 AM
R.I.P.

/readies flame-shield

Chocolate Hog
08-26-2009, 12:33 AM
Yea this probably won't be pretty. I'm on the opposite end of the political spectrum byt I don't believe in trashing someone when they've died. I will say if Obama had the drive of Ted Kennedy there actually would be changes in this country.

Direckshun
08-26-2009, 12:35 AM
That's incredibly unfortunate, because I know he would have loved to have voted for universal healthcare.

But it's also unfortunate because he was, in a few ways, the patron saint of our party.

RIP.

BigRock
08-26-2009, 12:37 AM
I will say if Obama had the drive of Ted Kennedy

too soon

Guru
08-26-2009, 12:37 AM
Yep, just caught this.

kcfanXIII
08-26-2009, 12:37 AM
every once in a while, i don't feel bad when someone dies. forgive me if this makes me a bad person.

SNR
08-26-2009, 12:38 AM
Rarely agreed with him about politics but still... RIP.

His health was deteriorating quickly. His death was probably a blessing for him.

Direckshun
08-26-2009, 12:38 AM
too soon

ROFL

Chocolate Hog
08-26-2009, 12:40 AM
Look I don't want to make this into a debate but lets be honest Teddy stood up for things that weren't too popular you can't really say the same about Obama.

Chiefshrink
08-26-2009, 12:48 AM
You watch, the WH and the "communist press" will try to use Teddy's death as a symbolic inspirational sympathetic reason to pass this sh**ty healthscare bill;"Lets focus on Ted and how we should pass this bill for him!:rolleyes:

What I hope happens is that God shows grace to Teddy so he has the opportunity to apologize to Mary Jo for his manslaughter cowardice act .:thumb:

Direckshun
08-26-2009, 12:50 AM
What I hope happens is that God shows grace to Teddy so he has the opportunity to apologize to Mary Jo for his manslaughter cowardice act .:thumb:

Well that was only a matter of time.

18 minutes. Pretty good grace period by Chiefsplanet's DC standards.

Chiefshrink
08-26-2009, 12:56 AM
18 minutes.

Hell, this 18min of graceTeddy got is going to be more grace than any of us will get with this "Teddy/Obama healthscare bill.:rolleyes:

Tiger's Fan
08-26-2009, 01:06 AM
Well that was only a matter of time.

18 minutes. Pretty good grace period by Chiefsplanet's DC standards.

17 more than he probably deserved.

Guru
08-26-2009, 01:06 AM
Guess I can stop watching the news for the night now. This is all they will be talking about all night long.

BigRock
08-26-2009, 01:08 AM
Look I don't want to make this into a debate but lets be honest Teddy stood up for things that weren't too popular you can't really say the same about Obama.

I just thought you were making a driving joke. It's much too soon for such things.

Direckshun
08-26-2009, 01:09 AM
Guess I can stop watching the news for the night now. This is all they will be talking about all night long.

It's a slow news week. It'll be covered for a few days.

Chiefshrink
08-26-2009, 01:27 AM
This is all they will be talking about all night long.

and until they ram this bill up our ass in Sept(God forbid):shake::shake:

googlegoogle
08-26-2009, 01:28 AM
Lets all toast his life with a beer.

mikey23545
08-26-2009, 02:03 AM
How can they tell?

mikey23545
08-26-2009, 02:12 AM
But it's also unfortunate because he was, in a few ways, the patron saint of our party.

RIP.

That says everything there is to say about <i>your</i> party.

Tribal Warfare
08-26-2009, 02:32 AM
You know what is really odd I was watching the Robin Williams movie The Birdcage the other day and when Robin was in the club and made a Ted Kennedy comment, and I thought he already died so I checked immediately afterwards to make sure, and his biography indicated he was still alive. Now, a day later I hear this it's a little freaky foresight.

RINGLEADER
08-26-2009, 07:11 AM
R.I.P. Senator.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 07:12 AM
Ted Kennedy's life is a truly amazing story, filled with tragedy and tragic mistakes, while also a story in some ways of redemption as he rose to be quite possibly the greatest (as in most successful) Senator in history.

Say what you will about him, he always cared for people, especially the common man, and he was THE most effective legislator of the last 50 years, with an amazing ability to reach across the aisle and meet his legislative goals.

He was a tremendously powerful voice for Massachusetts in Washington, and will be missed.

RINGLEADER
08-26-2009, 07:18 AM
Ted Kennedy's life is a truly amazing story, filled with tragedy and tragic mistakes, while also a story in some ways of redemption as he rose to be quite possibly the greatest (as in most successful) Senator in history.

Say what you will about him, he always cared for people, especially the common man, and he was THE most effective legislator of the last 50 years, with an amazing ability to reach across the aisle and meet his legislative goals.

He was a tremendously powerful voice for Massachusetts in Washington, and will be missed.

Well written.

wild1
08-26-2009, 07:24 AM
He was an adept politician, something the Democrats are quite poor of these days.

Simplex3
08-26-2009, 07:27 AM
Well that was only a matter of time.

18 minutes. Pretty good grace period by Chiefsplanet's DC standards.

Yeah, that was way more insensitive than letting someone drown because you're drunk and worried about your career.

wild1
08-26-2009, 07:30 AM
Yeah, that was way more insensitive than letting someone drown because you're drunk and worried about your career.

Hah. So true

LOCOChief
08-26-2009, 07:31 AM
That's incredibly unfortunate, because I know he would have loved to have voted for universal healthcare.

But it's also unfortunate because he was, in a few ways, the patron saint of our party.

RIP.

He wouldn't have signed universal health care because it's not going to happen. As for being the "patron saint of your party" I'd say that's pretty fitting title and that's why you libs will never get it.

I've battled cancer for most of my life, lost a few good friends and love ones to the disease so I certainly wouldn't wish it on anyone, but it sure as hell doesn't make them a saint. MA could be in a far better place from a legislative standpoint, get rid of Franke and your home free.

petegz28
08-26-2009, 07:32 AM
Mary Jo will be glad to see him, I'm sure.

memyselfI
08-26-2009, 07:32 AM
A progressive era has definitely ended. No one of his stature or vision is left in Congress. No one like Teddy has gotten near the WH and they certainly changed their stripes if they pretended they were like him to get there. I find it rather unfortunate symbolism that one of the main champions for health care has died during a major health care battle in which much progress could have been made but will ultimately be squandered due to the current administration's, which had been compared favorably to his own brother, ineptness. Sad irony for him.

LOCOChief
08-26-2009, 07:41 AM
A I find it rather unfortunate symbolism that one of the main champions for health care has died during a major health care battle in which much progress could have been made but will ultimately be squandered due to the current administration's, which had been compared favorably to his own brother, ineptness. Sad irony for him.


Yeah and look at the insurance coverage he had!

BigRedChief
08-26-2009, 07:50 AM
He got drunk and killed someone. He was a drunk for many years. Yes, thats all true. But.....

He could have ridden off into the sunset and lived his rich and privlidged life but he choose to try to make a positive difference in peoples lifes. He was a patriot that the idle rich should emulate. You may not agree with his policies/politics on how to help people but at least he tried, instead of just living a cushy life on Nantucket.

As was recently said....He never stopped asking what he could do for his country.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 07:52 AM
Yeah, that was way more insensitive than letting someone drown because you're drunk and worried about your career.

Perhaps so, but he still helped more people and did more for the cause of peace in the world than everyone on this board combined. That goes for something.

donkhater
08-26-2009, 08:07 AM
I'm not buying it. Too many people make out politicians as some sort of champion for the little guy. Ted has 40 years of 'service' in the Senate? Reallly? Actual service involves some sort of sacrifice on the part of the servant not some posh political positon full of power.

The Kennedys may be America's royal family to some, but I see a family seeped in corruption and political and social vanity. My condolences go out to his family and friends who loved him, but this country is better off without political piranas like him in the Senate.

Radar Chief
08-26-2009, 08:25 AM
When I saw the news this morning I knew there would be a topic here, so I’ve been trying to think of good things to say about the guy on the day of his death.
About the only thing I’m coming up with is he is a big part of what has convinced me that what Congress and the Senate desperately need is term limits.

BucEyedPea
08-26-2009, 08:30 AM
Massachusetts has been freed. And Ted is in a nice warm place now. May God have mercy on him.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 08:32 AM
When I saw the news this morning I knew there would be a topic here, so Iíve been trying to think of good things to say about the guy on the day of his death.
About the only thing Iím coming up with is he is a big part of what has convinced me that what Congress and the Senate desperately need is term limits.

Peace in Ireland?

American's with Disabiilties Act?

Civil Rights Act of 1964?

Campaign Finance Reform?

Visiting Soweto during Apartheid and supproting economic sanctions against the Apartheid government?

COBRA -- which relates to post-employment health care?

Even if you don't like No Child Left Behind or some other acts that may have unsupportable costs, I'd be surprised if you disliked everything that he helped accomplish.

loochy
08-26-2009, 08:33 AM
I feel bad for his family and those who loved him.

Otherwise I fail to see any disadvantage to his discontinuation of physical existence on our planet.

Check ya dude! Just because you had two brothers that were assasinated doesn't mean that you are automatically a great politician (or person).

Simplex3
08-26-2009, 08:33 AM
He could have ridden off into the sunset and lived his rich and privlidged life but he choose to try to make a positive difference in peoples lifes. He was a patriot that the idle rich should emulate. You may not agree with his policies/politics on how to help people but at least he tried, instead of just living a cushy life on Nantucket.

As was recently said....He never stopped asking what he could do for his country.

Or he really enjoyed the power and perks his position afforded him that not even his money could buy. Nobody but him will ever know for sure.

Oh, and if he really wanted to help people why is he still rich as hell? Don't you think he could have helped some people with that vast Kennedy fortune?

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 08:34 AM
I'm not buying it. Too many people make out politicians as some sort of champion for the little guy. Ted has 40 years of 'service' in the Senate? Reallly? Actual service involves some sort of sacrifice on the part of the servant not some posh political positon full of power.

The Kennedys may be America's royal family to some, but I see a family seeped in corruption and political and social vanity. My condolences go out to his family and friends who loved him, but this country is better off without political piranas like him in the Senate.

In that case all public service isn't really any kind of service at all, except maybe the military I guess, in your mind.

Which is fine. Though have no doubt he could have easily made 10x more money outside the Senate had he retired and switched to lobbying/law.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 08:35 AM
Or he really enjoyed the power and perks his position afforded him that not even his money could buy. Nobody but him will ever know for sure.

Oh, and if he really wanted to help people why is he still rich as hell? Don't you think he could have helped some people with that vast Kennedy fortune?

You may be overestimating the fortune. They're not billionaires or anything.

And do you know anything about what donations he made to charity? I sure as heck don't.

Simplex3
08-26-2009, 08:37 AM
Weren't the top Congress-critter's donations made public during the Bush/Kerry run? I seem to remember Ted being pretty damned low on the list.

petegz28
08-26-2009, 08:38 AM
Peace in Ireland?

American's with Disabiilties Act?

Civil Rights Act of 1964?

Campaign Finance Reform?

Visiting Soweto during Apartheid and supproting economic sanctions against the Apartheid government?

COBRA -- which relates to post-employment health care?

Even if you don't like No Child Left Behind or some other acts that may have unsupportable costs, I'd be surprised if you disliked everything that he helped accomplish.


CFR is a direct violation to the 1st Amendment.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 08:41 AM
CFR is a direct violation to the 1st Amendment.

According to who?

Donger
08-26-2009, 08:42 AM
As was recently said....He never stopped asking what he could do for his country.

You mean that eye-sore wind farm offshore the family compound that Teddy opposed while simultaneously stating that he supported wind power will go forward now?

petegz28
08-26-2009, 08:43 AM
According to who?

The Constitution.

Donger
08-26-2009, 08:48 AM
In that case all public service isn't really any kind of service at all, except maybe the military I guess, in your mind.

Which is fine. Though have no doubt he could have easily made 10x more money outside the Senate had he retired and switched to lobbying/law.

I thought you were vehemently opposed to dynastic wealth?

petegz28
08-26-2009, 08:50 AM
In that case all public service isn't really any kind of service at all, except maybe the military I guess, in your mind.

Which is fine. Though have no doubt he could have easily made 10x more money outside the Senate had he retired and switched to lobbying/law.

He may have made 10x more in $'s, but would he have had the power and perks? Hardly.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 08:51 AM
The Constitution.

So sez you? ROFL

blaise
08-26-2009, 08:54 AM
I once wrote a little comedy skit for a radio show that featured a Ted Kennedy impression. It was a parody commercial for something called, “Lemon Fresh Ale”. The premise was a beer infused with a certain cleansing agent, so that after you drank you beers you could urinate a detergent and clean your toilet or your floor, etc. Anyway, Ted Kennedy was a spokesman and said in his Mass accent that he loved Lemon Fresh Ale so much that he drank seven or eight that morning and went outside and washed his car.

petegz28
08-26-2009, 08:56 AM
So sez you? ROFL

http://www.forbes.com/2008/03/19/yaron-campaign-finance-oped-cx_ybr_0321yaron.html

Sen. McCain was once asked whether McCain-Feingold abridges freedom of speech. He implicitly admitted that it does: "I would rather have a clean government than one where quote 'First Amendment rights' are being respected that has become corrupt. If I had my choice, I'd rather have the clean government." We should tell Sen. McCain and those who agree with him that a government which strips us of our right to free speech is by that very fact corrupt.

It's time to reject this pernicious view and restore the First Amendment. It's time to abolish campaign finance laws.


OOPS...think you spoke a little too soon, Amnorix....LMAO

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 09:02 AM
I thought you were vehemently opposed to dynastic wealth?

I am. And presumably Ted's estate will pay their proper share of taxes.

The Kennedy empire isn't really built on wealth, and hasn't been for many years (though it certainly started out that way) -- it's built on political connections.

Believe me, I'm fully aware of how the Kennedy's got a large share of their wealth from old man Joe's illegal gun running during prohibition and his many other various foibles.

The Kennedy's aren't saints, John wasn't King Arthur, and his Court was more of brothel than Camelot. But as usual things in this forum are either 100% good or 100% bad. There is much middle ground here. Ted was a deeply flawed person who made tremendous achievements and overcame much personal adversity and tragedy.

Duck Dog
08-26-2009, 09:03 AM
RIP Mary Jo, Teddy is going to a difference place.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 09:03 AM
http://www.forbes.com/2008/03/19/yaron-campaign-finance-oped-cx_ybr_0321yaron.html




OOPS...think you spoke a little too soon, Amnorix....LMAO

Ted's support for campaign finance goes back far beyond that particular bill.

Kennedy played a major role in passing many pieces of legislation that have affected the lives of all Americans, including the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965), the National Cancer Act of 1971 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Cancer_Act_of_1971), the Federal Election Campaign Act Amendments of 1974 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Election_Campaign_Act_Amendments_of_1974), the COBRA Act of 1985 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consolidated_Omnibus_Budget_Reconciliation_Act_of_1985), the Comprehensive Anti-Apartheid Act of 1986 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Anti-Apartheid_Act_of_1986), the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans_with_Disabilities_Act_of_1990), the Ryan White AIDS Care Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_White_AIDS_Care_Act) in 1990, the Civil Rights Act of 1991 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1991), the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Insurance_Portability_and_Accountability_Act_of_1996), the Mental Health Parity Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_Health_Parity_Act) in 1996 and 2008, the State Children's Health Insurance Program (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Children%27s_Health_Insurance_Program) in 1997, the No Child Left Behind Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Child_Left_Behind_Act) in 2002, and the Edward M. Kennedy Serve America Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_M._Kennedy_Serve_America_Act) in 2009.

Donger
08-26-2009, 09:05 AM
I am. And presumably Ted's estate will pay their proper share of taxes.

The Kennedy empire isn't really built on wealth, and hasn't been for many years (though it certainly started out that way) -- it's built on political connections.

Believe me, I'm fully aware of how the Kennedy's got a large share of their wealth from old man Joe's illegal gun running during prohibition and his many other various foibles.

The Kennedy's aren't saints, John wasn't King Arthur, and his Court was more of brothel than Camelot. But as usual things in this forum are either 100% good or 100% bad. There is much middle ground here. Ted was a deeply flawed person who made tremendous achievements and overcame much personal adversity and tragedy.

Yeah, but he was one hell of a swimmer.

Is that ugly wind farm project going to go now that he's dead?

oldandslow
08-26-2009, 09:05 AM
RIP Mary Jo, Teddy is going to a difference place.

Just my guess, but I suspect you will not be the final judge in these matters.

I also suspect that your belief system specifically rails against you making these type judgements.

Donger
08-26-2009, 09:06 AM
So, who is the new senator going to be (if it isn't in poor taste to ask that question so soon after Teddy's demise)? Wasn't he trying to change some rule recently regarding the selection?

blaise
08-26-2009, 09:07 AM
So, who is the new senator going to be (if it isn't in poor taste to ask that question so soon after Teddy's demise)? Wasn't he trying to change some rule recently regarding the selection?

Tom Brady

petegz28
08-26-2009, 09:08 AM
Ted's support for campaign finance goes back far beyond that particular bill.

Kennedy played a major role in passing many pieces of legislation that have affected the lives of all Americans, including the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965), the National Cancer Act of 1971 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Cancer_Act_of_1971), the Federal Election Campaign Act Amendments of 1974 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Election_Campaign_Act_Amendments_of_1974), the COBRA Act of 1985 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consolidated_Omnibus_Budget_Reconciliation_Act_of_1985), the Comprehensive Anti-Apartheid Act of 1986 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Anti-Apartheid_Act_of_1986), the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans_with_Disabilities_Act_of_1990), the Ryan White AIDS Care Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_White_AIDS_Care_Act) in 1990, the Civil Rights Act of 1991 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1991), the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Insurance_Portability_and_Accountability_Act_of_1996), the Mental Health Parity Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_Health_Parity_Act) in 1996 and 2008, the State Children's Health Insurance Program (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Children%27s_Health_Insurance_Program) in 1997, the No Child Left Behind Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Child_Left_Behind_Act) in 2002, and the Edward M. Kennedy Serve America Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_M._Kennedy_Serve_America_Act) in 2009.


I thought you were talking about the McCain-Feingold bill. WTF does COBRA have to do with CFR? WTF does 90% of what you have posted there have to do with CFR?

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 09:08 AM
You mean that eye-sore wind farm offshore the family compound that Teddy opposed while simultaneously stating that he supported wind power will go forward now?

I found that a bit hypocritcal, to say the least, yes. Did I say somewhere that he was perfect? I must've missed that.

petegz28
08-26-2009, 09:10 AM
I found that a bit hypocritcal, to say the least, yes. Did I say somewhere that he was perfect? I must've missed that.

How is "The Big Dig" coming along?

Donger
08-26-2009, 09:10 AM
I found that a bit hypocritcal, to say the least, yes. Did I say somewhere that he was perfect? I must've missed that.

I wasn't suggesting that you thought he was. Just getting ready for the sainthood that the truly gullible and the media idiots are about to vomit forth.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 09:10 AM
So, who is the new senator going to be (if it isn't in poor taste to ask that question so soon after Teddy's demise)? Wasn't he trying to change some rule recently regarding the selection?

He was trying to change the current rule in Massachusetts, which requires a special election to replace him. That would take many months, and he was hoping to have the rule changed so that the government could appoint a senator to replace him until the election is held.

It's unclear what will happen. Martha Coakley, current AG, is a candidate, as is Joe Kennedy. A former House memeber, think it's Marty Meehan, has the largest potential war chest, which is a big advantage in the short time frame prior to the election.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 09:11 AM
I wasn't suggesting that you thought he was. Just getting ready for the sainthood that the truly gullible and the media idiots are about to vomit forth.

No doubt. Though every story I've heard so far that is broad in scope mentions Mary Jo.

Donger
08-26-2009, 09:12 AM
He was trying to change the current rule in Massachusetts, which requires a special election to replace him. That would take many months, and he was hoping to have the rule changed so that the government could appoint a senator to replace him until the election is held.

It's unclear what will happen. Martha Coakley, current AG, is a candidate, as is Joe Kennedy. A former House memeber, think it's Marty Meehan, has the largest potential war chest, which is a big advantage in the short time frame prior to the election.

Ah, okay. So, he basically ran out of time?

Donger
08-26-2009, 09:12 AM
No doubt. Though every story I've heard so far that is broad in scope mentions Mary Jo.

Well, it's sure nice that she gets a footnote.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 09:12 AM
How is "The Big Dig" coming along?

It's done, and while ridiculously painful during the process and fraught with fraud, the traffic around Boston is much better off as a result.

Not that it's GOOD, mind you, but it'd be far worse if it was just left as it was.

The Big Dig is a lasting legacy of Ted and Tip, and if it hadn't been full of fraud, it'd be a happier legacy, but it's still a good one.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 09:13 AM
Well, it's sure nice that she gets a footnote.

:shrug: Should it be the focus of the story? Does one accident swamp all other achievements (and there were many) over 50 years?

I don't know. It's a hell of an accident. But it's a hell of a legacy too.

Donger
08-26-2009, 09:14 AM
:shrug: Should it be the focus of the story? Does one accident swamp all other achievements (and there were many) over 50 years?

I don't know. It's a hell of an accident. But it's a hell of a legacy too.

Swamp? No. I'd say it drowns out the rest, or should.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 09:14 AM
Ah, okay. So, he basically ran out of time?

:shrug: It's understandable that he views every vote as important when a titanic struggle is brewing over universal health care, the cause of his life.

It wasn't about putting another Kennedy into office. Alot of talk around here has been to modify the law to allow the appointment, but the appointee would be prohibiited from running in the special election.

Duck Dog
08-26-2009, 09:15 AM
Just my guess, but I suspect you will not be the final judge in these matters.

I also suspect that your belief system specifically rails against you making these type judgements.

You have no idea what my belief system is. If you think I'm a right wing Christian that believes in Heaven and Hell then you'd be wrong.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 09:15 AM
Swamp? No. I'd say it drowns out the rest, or should.

The voters of Massachusetts decided that it shouldn't, about 35 years ago.

Donger
08-26-2009, 09:16 AM
:shrug: It's understandable that he views every vote as important when a titanic struggle is brewing over universal health care, the cause of his life.

It wasn't about putting another Kennedy into office. Alot of talk around here has been to modify the law to allow the appointment, but the appointee would be prohibiited from running in the special election.

What a shame that his own party didn't afford him the luxury of fulfilling his socialist dream.

Donger
08-26-2009, 09:17 AM
The voters of Massachusetts decided that it shouldn't, about 35 years ago.

Of course they did.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 09:17 AM
You have no idea what my belief system is. If you think I'm a right wing Christian that believes in Heaven and Hell then you'd be wrong.

Then what is the different place? Albequerque?

RIP Mary Jo, Teddy is going to a difference place.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 09:18 AM
What a shame that his own party didn't afford him the luxury of fulfilling his socialist dream.

Ah, socialism. The new bugaboo word.

blaise
08-26-2009, 09:20 AM
Ah, socialism. The new bugaboo word.

It must be, the way some are loathe to admit to being one.

petegz28
08-26-2009, 09:20 AM
It's done, and while ridiculously painful during the process and fraught with fraud, the traffic around Boston is much better off as a result.

Not that it's GOOD, mind you, but it'd be far worse if it was just left as it was.

The Big Dig is a lasting legacy of Ted and Tip, and if it hadn't been full of fraud, it'd be a happier legacy, but it's still a good one.

I Was there when it was going on. It was a pain in the ass. But you summed it up, it is his legacy...full of tons of fraud.

petegz28
08-26-2009, 09:21 AM
Ah, socialism. The new bugaboo word.

Nice deflection. So what definition would you like to give the word Socilaism now?

Donger
08-26-2009, 09:21 AM
Ah, socialism. The new bugaboo word.

There's nothing new about it.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 09:22 AM
I Was there when it was going on. It was a pain in the ass. But you summed it up, it is his legacy...full of tons of fraud.

Ted Kennedy committed fraud in connection with the Big Dig? Really? First I've heard of it.

I understand your blind hatred. I had similar complete hatred for Jesse Helms, may he rot. :shrug:

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 09:23 AM
Nice deflection. So what definition would you like to give the word Socilaism now?

Not interested in redefining it. The same old definition as always works fine.

Nor is Kennedy's legacy one of socialism, much as you may claim otherwise.

Radar Chief
08-26-2009, 09:24 AM
Peace in Ireland?

American's with Disabiilties Act?

Civil Rights Act of 1964?

Campaign Finance Reform?

Visiting Soweto during Apartheid and supproting economic sanctions against the Apartheid government?

COBRA -- which relates to post-employment health care?

Even if you don't like No Child Left Behind or some other acts that may have unsupportable costs, I'd be surprised if you disliked everything that he helped accomplish.

Agreed with some, disagreed with the rest, but itís good your brought this up as I probably wouldnít have thought of these.
See, when I think of Ted Kennedy I think of an over privileged career politician that has not only gotten away with illegal actions that wouldíve seen any of us turning big rocks into gravel for the rest of our lives, but also one that cozied up to communists while trying to cripple our country internationally. So itís a good thing we have guys like you around to point out his accomplishments on the day he goes to answer for the way he has lived his life.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 09:24 AM
There's nothing new about it.

The old bugaboo was "liberal".

Seems like the goal posts have moved a bit. Not in a good directon either. Our current economic path is ruinous.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 09:26 AM
Agreed with some, disagreed with the rest, but itís good your brought this up as I probably wouldnít have thought of these.
See, when I think of Ted Kennedy I think of an over privileged career politician that has not only gotten away with illegal actions that wouldíve seen any of us turning big rocks into gravel for the rest of our lives,

The crime at best was vehicular manslaughter, which under the circumstances would never result in a sentence of more than 10 years, and certainly not back in the 70s when drunk driving wasn't nearly as frowned upon as it is now.

You acknowledge, I assume, that this wasn't some kind of OJ Simpson-like murder he got away with?

but also one that cozied up to communists while trying to cripple our country internationally. So itís a good thing we have guys like you around to point out his accomplishments on the day he goes to answer for the way he has lived his life.

Cozied up to Communists? Anything specific on that, a I've never heard that one before for Ted.

Donger
08-26-2009, 09:28 AM
The old bugaboo was "liberal".

Seems like the goal posts have moved a bit. Not in a good directon either. Our current economic path is ruinous.

Well, a lot has happened over the last few months. Liberal doesn't quite fit any longer. Government intervention in banking, production and now attempted health care has many people suspicious as to the motives. Surely you understand that.

And, what's the matter? You don't like Obama doubling our debt over ten years? $20 trillion makes you anxious? You don't like having a debt load almost equal to our annual GDP?

blaise
08-26-2009, 09:30 AM
The crime at best was vehicular manslaughter, which under the circumstances would never result in a sentence of more than 10 years, and certainly not back in the 70s when drunk driving wasn't nearly as frowned upon as it is now.

You acknowledge, I assume, that this wasn't some kind of OJ Simpson-like murder he got away with?



Cozied up to Communists? Anything specific on that, a I've never heard that one before for Ted.

It went beyond a simple accident though. He went home and didn't call authorities until the following day if I'm not mistaken. He left her there all night without calling for help. It's not like he just had an accident and the passenger died. The fact that he went home makes it worse.

Donger
08-26-2009, 09:31 AM
Just in case folks aren't aware of Kennedy's actions that eventful day...

According to his own testimony at the inquest into Kopechne's death, Kennedy left the party at "approximately 11:15 p.m." When he announced that he was about to leave, Kopechne indicated "that she was desirous of leaving, if I would be kind enough to drop her back at her hotel". Kennedy then requested the keys to his car from his chauffeur, Crimmins. Asked why he did not have his chauffeur drive them both, Kennedy explained that Crimmins along with some other partygoers "were concluding their meal, enjoying the fellowship and it didn't appear to me necessary to require him to bring me back to Edgartown".[3] Kopechne told no one that she was leaving with Kennedy, and left her purse and hotel key at the party.[4]

Christopher "Huck" Look was a deputy sheriff working as a special police officer at the Edgartown regatta dance that night. At 12:30 am he left the dance, crossed over to Chappaquiddick in the yacht club's launch, got into his parked car and drove home. He testified that between 12:30 and 12:45 am he had seen a dark car containing a man driving and a woman in the front seat approaching the intersection with Dike Road. The car had gone first onto the private Cemetery Road and stopped there. Thinking that the occupants of the car might be lost, Look had gotten out of his car and walked towards it. When he was 25 to 30 feet away, the car started backing up towards him. When Look called out to offer his help, the car took off down Dike Road in a cloud of dust.[5] Look recalled that the car's license plate began with a "L" and contained the number "7" twice, both details true of Kennedy's 1967 Oldsmobile Delmont 88.

According to his inquest testimony, Kennedy made a wrong turn onto Dike Road, an unlit dirt road that led to Dike Bridge (also spelled Dyke Bridge). Dike Road was unpaved, but Kennedy, driving at "approximately twenty miles an hour", took "no particular notice" of this fact, and did not realize that he was no longer headed towards the ferry landing.[6] Dike Bridge was a wooden bridge angled obliquely to the road with no guardrail. A fraction of a second before he reached the bridge, Kennedy applied his brakes; he then drove over the side of the bridge. The car plunged into tide-swept Poucha Pond (at that location a channel) and came to rest upside down underwater. Kennedy later recalled that he was able to swim free of the vehicle, but Kopechne was not. Kennedy claimed at the inquest that he called Kopechne's name several times from the shore, then tried to swim down to reach her seven or eight times, then rested on the bank for around fifteen minutes before returning on foot to Lawrence Cottage, where the party attended by Kopechne and other "Boiler Room Girls" had occurred. Kennedy denied seeing any house with a light on during his journey back to Lawrence Cottage.[7]

In addition to the working telephone at the Lawrence Cottage, according to one commentator, his route back to the cottage would have taken him past four houses from which he could have telephoned and summoned help; however, he did not do so.[8] The first of those houses, referred to as "Dike House", was only 150 yards away from the bridge, and was occupied by Sylvia Malm and her family at the time of the incident. Malm later stated that she had left a light on at the residence when she retired for that evening.[9]

According to Kennedy's testimony, Gargan and party co-host Paul Markham then returned to the pond with Kennedy to try to rescue Kopechne. Both of the other men also tried to dive into the water and rescue Kopechne multiple times.[1] When their efforts to rescue Kopechne failed, Kennedy testified, Gargan and Markham drove with Kennedy to the ferry landing, both insisting multiple times that the accident had to be reported to the authorities.[10] According to Markham's testimony Kennedy was sobbing and on the verge of breaking down.[11] Kennedy went on to testify that "[I] had full intention of reporting it. And I mentioned to Gargan and Markham something like, 'You take care of the other girls; I will take care of the accident!' -- that is what I said and I dove into the water".[10] Kennedy had already told Gargan and Markham not to tell the other women anything about the incident "[b]ecause I felt strongly that if these girls were notified that an accident had taken place and Mary Jo had, in fact, drowned, that it would only be a matter of seconds before all of those girls, who were long and dear friends of Mary Jo's, would go to the scene of the accident and enter the water with, I felt, a good chance that some serious mishap might have occurred to any one of them".[12] Gargan and Markam would testify that they assumed that Kennedy was going to inform the authorities once he got back to Edgartown, and thus did not do so themselves.[2]

According to his own testimony, Kennedy swam across the 500-foot channel, back to Edgartown and returned to his hotel room, where he removed his clothes and collapsed on his bed.[12] Hearing noises, he later put on dry clothes and asked someone what the time was: it was something like 2:30 a.m., the senator recalled. He testified that, as the night went on, "I almost tossed and turned and walked around that room ... I had not given up hope all night long that, by some miracle, Mary Jo would have escaped from the car."[13]

Back at his hotel, Kennedy complained at 2:55 am to the hotel owner that he had been awoken by a noisy party.[2] By 7:30 am the next morning he was talking "casually" to the winner of the previous day's sailing race, with no indication that anything was amiss.[2] At 8 a.m., Gargan and Markham joined Kennedy at his hotel where they had a "heated conversation." According to Kennedy's testimony, the two men asked why he hadn't reported the accident. Kennedy responded by telling them "about my own thoughts and feelings as I swam across that channel ... that somehow when they arrived in the morning that they were going to say that Mary Jo was still alive".[13] The three men subsequently crossed back to Chappaquiddick Island on the ferry, where Kennedy made a series of phone calls from a payphone by the crossing to his friends for advice; he again did not report the accident to authorities.[2]

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 09:34 AM
Well, a lot has happened over the last few months. Liberal doesn't quite fit any longer. Government intervention in banking, production and now attempted health care has many people suspicious as to the motives. Surely you understand that.

And, what's the matter? You don't like Obama doubling our debt over ten years? $20 trillion makes you anxious? You don't like having a debt load almost equal to our annual GDP?

Don't pretend for a second that this all lies at Obama's feet. This course was set by his Republican predecessor, and the stunning economic incompetency of our federal government is not some kind of recent development of the last 9 months.

Nor, for hte record, do I support universal health care at the current time unless a way to make it cost neutral (very unlikely) or nearly so can be determined.

I can only hope that we somehow find a path back to fiscal sanity before a complete collapse.

wild1
08-26-2009, 09:35 AM
Don't pretend for a second that this all lies at Obama's feet. This course was set by his Republican predecessor...

Which he supported and voted for, and would have done equally or on a larger scale if he'd been in office 6 months earlier.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 09:35 AM
It went beyond a simple accident though. He went home and didn't call authorities until the following day if I'm not mistaken. He left her there all night without calling for help. It's not like he just had an accident and the passenger died. The fact that he went home makes it worse.

Correct. He was drunk and admitted, at the time, that his actions were inexplicable and inexcusable.

I don't disagree.

And yet he still would hardly have been "pounding rocks" for the rest of his life or whatever Radar said. Vehicular manslaughter, leaving the scene of an accident, etc., would never get that kind of result today, much less back then.

petegz28
08-26-2009, 09:36 AM
Ted Kennedy committed fraud in connection with the Big Dig? Really? First I've heard of it.

I understand your blind hatred. I had similar complete hatred for Jesse Helms, may he rot. :shrug:

Wait a second..you just said:

A) The Big Dig was full of fraud
B) The Big Dig will be a legacy of Teddy


LMAO


It's done, and while ridiculously painful during the process and fraught with fraud, the traffic around Boston is much better off as a result.

Not that it's GOOD, mind you, but it'd be far worse if it was just left as it was.

The Big Dig is a lasting legacy of Ted and Tip, and if it hadn't been full of fraud, it'd be a happier legacy, but it's still a good one.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 09:37 AM
Which he supported and voted for, and would have done equally or on a larger scale if he'd been in office 6 months earlier.

Excepting health care, you kid yourself if you think Obama and Bush have been or would have been substantially different in their management of the economic crisis.

Or McCain, for that matter.

And I'm ok with stimulus packages, etc., but we need to have a long term path back to financial viability, and universal health care and prolonging tax cuts and no discussions regarding curbing spending is not how to do it.

Radar Chief
08-26-2009, 09:38 AM
The crime at best was vehicular manslaughter, which under the circumstances would never result in a sentence of more than 10 years, and certainly not back in the 70s when drunk driving wasn't nearly as frowned upon as it is now.

You acknowledge, I assume, that this wasn't some kind of OJ Simpson-like murder he got away with?

And how much time did Ted serve again?


Cozied up to Communists? Anything specific on that, a I've never heard that one before for Ted.

Besides working with the KGB to undermine Reagan?

blaise
08-26-2009, 09:39 AM
I wasn't a Kennedy fan, but I never heard him tied into the Big Dig problems.

petegz28
08-26-2009, 09:39 AM
I wasn't a Kennedy fan, but I never heard him tied into the Big Dig problems.

Ok then, how can it be a legacy to him then? He was involved to the point it is a legacy to him, but not to the point he didn't know or participate in any of the fraud?

OK.....:spock:

gblowfish
08-26-2009, 09:40 AM
You watch, the WH and the "communist press" will try to use Teddy's death as a symbolic inspirational sympathetic reason to pass this sh**ty healthscare bill;"Lets focus on Ted and how we should pass this bill for him!:rolleyes:

What I hope happens is that God shows grace to Teddy so he has the opportunity to apologize to Mary Jo for his manslaughter cowardice act .:thumb:

I didn't know Rush had a CP account!

Chief Henry
08-26-2009, 09:40 AM
I'm guessing many high school and college age young people will be hearing of
Mary Jo Kopechne for the first time and will be googling her name. These young people will be amased at what they learn.

petegz28
08-26-2009, 09:41 AM
I didn't know Rush had a CP account!

Actually, the Dems have already started to use his death as a rallying point for health care. They are pondering naming the bill after him and Pelosi has already said "his dream will come true this year"

wild1
08-26-2009, 09:42 AM
Excepting health care, you kid yourself if you think Obama and Bush have been or would have been substantially different in their management of the economic crisis.

You were excusing his poor handling of the economy with "well Bush started it", and I simply made the point that he would have done the same things or done them on an even larger scale.

You don't get to use "we inherited this" when you were on board from the start.

Actually, you never get to use "we said we'd fix this, and we've screwed it up worse, but you can't blame us because the problem was here in January of 09"

Radar Chief
08-26-2009, 09:42 AM
And how much time did Ted serve again?
Besides working with the KGB to undermine Reagan?

OK, Iím done talking bad on the guy the day he died. Thatís some Karma I donít want to spread.

Donger
08-26-2009, 09:43 AM
Don't pretend for a second that this all lies at Obama's feet. This course was set by his Republican predecessor, and the stunning economic incompetency of our federal government is not some kind of recent development of the last 9 months.

Nor, for hte record, do I support universal health care at the current time unless a way to make it cost neutral (very unlikely) or nearly so can be determined.

I can only hope that we somehow find a path back to fiscal sanity before a complete collapse.

All of it? No, not all of it. I hate how much the debt increased under Bush. But, at some point, you've got to give Obama some blame. Doubling the debt over the next ten years, to a staggering $20 trillion? Obama and congress deserves a large portion of blame for that.

Donger
08-26-2009, 09:44 AM
Correct. He was drunk and admitted, at the time, that his actions were inexplicable and inexcusable.

I don't disagree.

And yet he still would hardly have been "pounding rocks" for the rest of his life or whatever Radar said. Vehicular manslaughter, leaving the scene of an accident, etc., would never get that kind of result today, much less back then.

I don't believe that he ever admitted he was drunk. In fact, I think he said the exact opposite.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 09:46 AM
And how much time did Ted serve again?

I don't believe any of this is news. I wasn't pointing out that he didn't do anything wrong, I was pointing out your exaggeration of what he avoided.

He made a terrible mistake, for which his political connections saved him from serving time. I dont' condone or agree with that. Not in the slightest.


Besides working with the KGB to undermine Reagan?

ehhh...what?


"I was terribly saddened to hear of the death of Ted Kennedy tonight. Given our political differences, people are sometimes surprised by how close Ronnie and I have been to the Kennedy family. But Ronnie and Ted could always find common ground, and they had great respect for one another. In recent years, Ted and I found our common ground in stem cell research, and I considered him an ally and a dear friend. I will miss him."

http://kennedy.senate.gov/newsroom/press_release.cfm?id=F17EFA9C-8420-40F5-9D55-F09BF77A9718

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 09:47 AM
I don't believe that he ever admitted he was drunk. In fact, I think he said the exact opposite.

I think you're right about that part.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 09:48 AM
I wasn't a Kennedy fan, but I never heard him tied into the Big Dig problems.

He wasn't. Pete is being his usual dense self.

jAZ
08-26-2009, 09:49 AM
Per Fox News

Flipped over to see what Fox News' take was on this. Only to see a news model introduce the "story of the day"... a screwup that sent some stimulus checks to prisoners.

That's the "story of the day".

Stay classy Fox News.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 09:49 AM
Actually, the Dems have already started to use his death as a rallying point for health care. They are pondering naming the bill after him and Pelosi has already said "his dream will come true this year"

No doubt. But seriously, he would have wanted it, and nothing would make him prouder than have such a bill carry his name.

Though I don't support such a bill if it's not reasonably revenue neutral, which is very unlikely.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 09:50 AM
You were excusing his poor handling of the economy with "well Bush started it", and I simply made the point that he would have done the same things or done them on an even larger scale.

You don't get to use "we inherited this" when you were on board from the start.

We inherited the economic crisis.

I think both sides of the aisle are equally pathetic in their economic mismanagement of the last several years. Everyone in DC seems blind to the fact that we're going off a cliff.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 09:51 AM
All of it? No, not all of it. I hate how much the debt increased under Bush. But, at some point, you've got to give Obama some blame. Doubling the debt over the next ten years, to a staggering $20 trillion? Obama and congress deserves a large portion of blame for that.

I really and rather desperately hope that once we get out of the recession, we will start closing the massive deficit.

I have little hope that we will, under either a Democratic or a Republican Congress or administration.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 09:52 AM
Flipped over to see what Fox News' take was on this. Only to see a news model introduce the "story of the day"... a screwup that sent some stimulus checks to prisoners.

That's the "story of the day".

Stay classy Fox News.

ROFL. I'd at least have expected a long tribute to Mary Jo today, together with interviews of the people in her life, etc. etc. and some mentions of the evil monster that cut her life short.

Simplex3
08-26-2009, 09:53 AM
The voters of Massachusetts decided that it shouldn't, about 35 years ago.

The same clowns who keep voting in Barney Frank, right?

Donger
08-26-2009, 09:54 AM
I really and rather desperately hope that once we get out of the recession, we will start closing the massive deficit.

I have little hope that we will, under either a Democratic or a Republican Congress or administration.

I honestly think that the numbers are too vast for many people to truly comprehend. So, taking into account our present debt load, every man, woman and child is now on the line for $33,000 EACH. If Obama gets his way, that will be $66,000 each by 2020.

If those numbers don't scare the fiscal crap out of you/one, you need a head examination.

Pennywise
08-26-2009, 09:56 AM
Did he ever get to find out what happened to little Billy?

FishingRod
08-26-2009, 09:56 AM
I grew up despising the man, yet in later life my feelings changed from that to a grudging respect. I was almost always in disagreement with his politics but my perception of his motivation changed. I think he really did want to help people. RIP Ted

blaise
08-26-2009, 09:56 AM
Flipped over to see what Fox News' take was on this. Only to see a news model introduce the "story of the day"... a screwup that sent some stimulus checks to prisoners.

That's the "story of the day".

Stay classy Fox News.

Little bit of irony in your post there, jAZ.

Radar Chief
08-26-2009, 10:00 AM
ehhh...what?


Consider the source, but the dates and names appear to be solid and this isn’t the only place you’ll see this.

The Blogger News Network reported on October 26, 2006:
Let me cut to the chase. In May 1983, Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA) directed friend and fellow Senator John Tunney to meet with the Soviet KGB with a tantalizing message. Tunney was to tell the KGB to alert Soviet Communist Party General Secretary Yuri Andropov that Kennedy believed then President Ronald Reagan was a threat, possibly a military one, to the Soviet Union. Because of his worry over Reagan’s intentions, he offered to Andropov, through Tunney, to coordinate American media with the aim of undermining President Reagan with the electorate. In short, an American Senator collaborated with our arch foe in the Cold War to undermine a sitting President.

So says a new book by Grove City College political science professor Paul Kengor.

In the new book, The Crusader: Ronald Reagan and the Fall of Communism, Dr. Kengor points to a recently discovered memo dated May 14, 1983 from Viktor Chebrikov, the head of the KGB to General Secretary Andropov. Chebrikov informed Andropov of Kennedy’s offer, made via Senator Tunney, to form a partnership to undermine Reagan foreign policy and the President’s re-election efforts. Kennedy proposed that Andropov would make a direct appeal to the American public via television interviews that would be set up in cooperation with the major networks. Kennedy’s plan never materialized due to the sudden death of Andropov and the ascendance of Mikhail Gorbachev.
http://www.tldm.org/News9/KennedyCooperatedWithKGB.htm

Radar Chief
08-26-2009, 10:02 AM
ROFL. I'd at least have expected a long tribute to Mary Jo today, together with interviews of the people in her life, etc. etc. and some mentions of the evil monster that cut her life short.

I doubt they want the distraction from Health Care and the Town Halls. FOX News been absolutely giddy over those events.

dirk digler
08-26-2009, 10:03 AM
Ted wasn't a perfect man like most of us but he did some good things and I hope he is at peace now.

RIP

Donger
08-26-2009, 10:04 AM
Consider the source, but the dates and names appear to be solid and this isnít the only place youíll see this.

The Blogger News Network reported on October 26, 2006:
Let me cut to the chase. In May 1983, Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-MA) directed friend and fellow Senator John Tunney to meet with the Soviet KGB with a tantalizing message. Tunney was to tell the KGB to alert Soviet Communist Party General Secretary Yuri Andropov that Kennedy believed then President Ronald Reagan was a threat, possibly a military one, to the Soviet Union. Because of his worry over Reaganís intentions, he offered to Andropov, through Tunney, to coordinate American media with the aim of undermining President Reagan with the electorate. In short, an American Senator collaborated with our arch foe in the Cold War to undermine a sitting President.

So says a new book by Grove City College political science professor Paul Kengor.

In the new book, The Crusader: Ronald Reagan and the Fall of Communism, Dr. Kengor points to a recently discovered memo dated May 14, 1983 from Viktor Chebrikov, the head of the KGB to General Secretary Andropov. Chebrikov informed Andropov of Kennedyís offer, made via Senator Tunney, to form a partnership to undermine Reagan foreign policy and the Presidentís re-election efforts. Kennedy proposed that Andropov would make a direct appeal to the American public via television interviews that would be set up in cooperation with the major networks. Kennedyís plan never materialized due to the sudden death of Andropov and the ascendance of Mikhail Gorbachev.
http://www.tldm.org/News9/KennedyCooperatedWithKGB.htm

http://www.washtimes.com/news/2006/oct/27/20061027-084248-4386r/

History has long since vindicated Ronald Reagan's Cold War policy. Even Sen. Ted Kennedy, whom no one would accuse of harboring pro-Reagan sympathies, had to admit that Mr. Reagan "will be honored as the president who won the Cold War." But opinions have not always been so united.

In his new book, "The Crusader: Ronald Reagan and the Fall of Communism," Grove City College professor Paul Kengor sheds light on a letter written by KGB head Viktor Chebrikov to Soviet leader Yuri Andropov. The letter is dated May 14, 1983, right as the debate was heating up over Mr. Reagan's proposed deployment of intermediate-range nuclear weapons in Western Europe to counter the Soviets' medium-range rockets in Eastern Europe.

Most Democrats and much of the left were universally opposed to Mr. Reagan's plan, which they argued would lead to nuclear war. Heading the list of critics was Mr. Kennedy, who had, according to the Soviet letter, sent former Sen. John V. Tunney to meet with Kremlin leaders. Chebrikov writes that Mr. Kennedy "charged Tunney to convey the following message, through confidential contacts, to... Andropov."

According to the letter, Mr. Kennedy was concerned with "Reagan's belligerence," which he felt was in part the result of the president's popularity. "The only real threats to Reagan are problems of war and peace and Soviet-American relations," wrote Chebrikov, relaying Mr. Tunney's message. "These issues, according to [Mr. Kennedy], will without a doubt become the most important of the [1984] election campaign."

The letter goes on to say how Mr. Kennedy felt that the Soviets' peaceful intentions were being "quoted out of context, silenced or groundlessly and whimsically discounted." Conversely, Mr. Reagan "has the capabilities to counter any propaganda." In other words, if the letter is to be believed, Mr. Kennedy felt his own president was the real aggressor.

Mr. Kennedy had two proposals for Andropov, according to Chebrikov. First, he asked for a meeting later that summer in order "to arm Soviet officials with explanations regarding problems of nuclear disarmament so they may be better prepared and more convincing during appearances in the USA." Second, that "Kennedy believes that in order to influence Americans it would be important to organize ... televised interviews with [Andropov] in the USA."

If Chebrikov's account of events is accurate, it's clear Mr. Kennedy was actively engaging the Russians to influence the 1984 election. He also seems to have genuinely believed that Mr. Reagan's policies were endangering U.S.-Soviet relations and that the best solution was to get Mr. Reagan out of office. The letter closes with Chebrikov saying that "Tunney remarked that the senator wants to run for president in 1988," possibly suggesting Mr. Kennedy had other, more selfish motives.

As Mr. Kengor concludes, "if the memo is in fact an accurate account of what transpired, it constitutes a remarkable example of the lengths to which some on the political left, including a sitting U.S. senator, were willing to go to stop Ronald Reagan."

We agree. Even in a jaded world, it is breathtaking to discover a U.S. senator -- brother of a former president -- actively and secretly collaborating with Soviet leaders in an attempt to undermine the president of the United States' nuclear defense policy during the height of the cold war.

blaise
08-26-2009, 10:07 AM
Ok then, how can it be a legacy to him then? He was involved to the point it is a legacy to him, but not to the point he didn't know or participate in any of the fraud?

OK.....:spock:

Well I look at the money the US sent to Africa for AIDS relief as part of Bush's legacy, but if some of the hospitals or clinics there get caught stealing money I wouldn't say it's Bush's fault either. I realize Kennedy was the Senator of Mass and Bush wasn't actually working for Africa, so it's not maybe the best analogy, but I blame the problems with the big dig on municipal curruption and incompetence more than Kennedy.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 10:17 AM
First, Reagan didn't win the Cold War.

Second, boy do I find that whole thing about Kennedy ridiculously hard to believe. Absurdly hard. It doesn't even make sense. What would Kennedy get out of it? What could/would the Russians do for him?

:shrug: It's possible, I guess, but it seems very unlikely. Never heard of this memo before -- will look into it a bit.

Donger
08-26-2009, 10:23 AM
First, Reagan didn't win the Cold War.

Second, boy do I find that whole thing about Kennedy ridiculously hard to believe. Absurdly hard. It doesn't even make sense. What would Kennedy get out of it? What could/would the Russians do for him?

:shrug: It's possible, I guess, but it seems very unlikely. Never heard of this memo before -- will look into it a bit.

Right here:

"Mr. Kennedy had two proposals for Andropov, according to Chebrikov. First, he asked for a meeting later that summer in order "to arm Soviet officials with explanations regarding problems of nuclear disarmament so they may be better prepared and more convincing during appearances in the USA." Second, that "Kennedy believes that in order to influence Americans it would be important to organize ... televised interviews with [Andropov] in the USA."

If Chebrikov's account of events is accurate, it's clear Mr. Kennedy was actively engaging the Russians to influence the 1984 election. He also seems to have genuinely believed that Mr. Reagan's policies were endangering U.S.-Soviet relations and that the best solution was to get Mr. Reagan out of office. The letter closes with Chebrikov saying that "Tunney remarked that the senator wants to run for president in 1988," possibly suggesting Mr. Kennedy had other, more selfish motive."

KC Dan
08-26-2009, 10:24 AM
I heard about this last night and almost posted but decided to give Ted 8-10 hours of reverence. With that over: Ted was a great, great Senator. It is a shame that there are not more that can emulate his skill at supporting his party yet compromising for the good of the entire country.

Having said that, his career as a Senator (in my eyes) in no way absolves his sins nor the fact that he should have spent a great many years in prison for his actions that directly led to a young womans' death.

For that: RIP Mary Jo, Justice has finally been done 40 years late.

wild1
08-26-2009, 10:26 AM
Right here:

"Mr. Kennedy had two proposals for Andropov, according to Chebrikov. First, he asked for a meeting later that summer in order "to arm Soviet officials with explanations regarding problems of nuclear disarmament so they may be better prepared and more convincing during appearances in the USA." Second, that "Kennedy believes that in order to influence Americans it would be important to organize ... televised interviews with [Andropov] in the USA."

If Chebrikov's account of events is accurate, it's clear Mr. Kennedy was actively engaging the Russians to influence the 1984 election. He also seems to have genuinely believed that Mr. Reagan's policies were endangering U.S.-Soviet relations and that the best solution was to get Mr. Reagan out of office. The letter closes with Chebrikov saying that "Tunney remarked that the senator wants to run for president in 1988," possibly suggesting Mr. Kennedy had other, more selfish motive."

Treason. :eek:

Donger
08-26-2009, 10:27 AM
Treason. :eek:

I'd really hope that it is all BS. Then again, folks really did think that Reagan was going to kill us all and start WWIII.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 10:28 AM
Right here:

"Mr. Kennedy had two proposals for Andropov, according to Chebrikov. First, he asked for a meeting later that summer in order "to arm Soviet officials with explanations regarding problems of nuclear disarmament so they may be better prepared and more convincing during appearances in the USA." Second, that "Kennedy believes that in order to influence Americans it would be important to organize ... televised interviews with [Andropov] in the USA."

If Chebrikov's account of events is accurate, it's clear Mr. Kennedy was actively engaging the Russians to influence the 1984 election. He also seems to have genuinely believed that Mr. Reagan's policies were endangering U.S.-Soviet relations and that the best solution was to get Mr. Reagan out of office. The letter closes with Chebrikov saying that "Tunney remarked that the senator wants to run for president in 1988," possibly suggesting Mr. Kennedy had other, more selfish motive."

Brief review suggests memo might be legitimate. Read an interview with the author, who is clearly very conservative (not that that undermines authenticity), and his story about the background for the document is very solid, if true.

Seems like Kennedy was trying to suggest that he help the Russians improve their media image in America. Silly, useless and probably a sign of just how desperate the Democrats were in 1983 to find some way to derail the Great Communicator.

:shrug: I haven't reviewed it in great detail, but seems like a harebrained scheme, not the treason that the author is trying to suggest.

One other note -- contrary to the comment, by all accounts Kennedy pretty much gave up on his Presidential aspirations after '80, though I think he did play around with the notion a bit from time to time.

wild1
08-26-2009, 10:31 AM
I'd really hope that it is all BS. Then again, folks really did think that Reagan was going to kill us all and start WWIII.

Hopefully it is false. It would not surprise me 100% if it were true however.

Donger
08-26-2009, 10:32 AM
Brief review suggests memo might be legitimate. Read an interview with the author, who is clearly very conservative (not that that undermines authenticity), and his story about the background for the document is very solid, if true.

Seems like Kennedy was trying to suggest that he help the Russians improve their media image in America. Silly, useless and probably a sign of just how desperate the Democrats were in 1983 to find some way to derail the Great Communicator.

:shrug: I haven't reviewed it in great detail, but seems like a harebrained scheme, not the treason that the author is trying to suggest.

I think you must view it historically. I've no doubt that you aware of the animosity between out two countries at the time? Would you not consider this to be giving aid and comfort to the enemy, while simultaneously attempting to undermine the efforts of the duly elected government of the United States?

dirk digler
08-26-2009, 10:36 AM
The crime at best was vehicular manslaughter, which under the circumstances would never result in a sentence of more than 10 years, and certainly not back in the 70s when drunk driving wasn't nearly as frowned upon as it is now.



Yep. People need to go back and look at alot of cases where a drunk driver killed somebody and they don't serve any time.

It still happens today even and I don't necessarily agree with it but it is not like it is uncommon thing. Heck we have 2 NFL players in recent history do this and serve little or no time and go back to playing football.

KC Dan
08-26-2009, 10:45 AM
Yep. People need to go back and look at alot of cases where a drunk driver killed somebody and they don't serve any time.Drunk driver that leaves the scene, doesn't get law enforcement involved for more than 8 hours until he gets a good nights sleep? Not to mention the others that were involved in not reporting this event. You're right, he should have done no jail time. In fact, we should start chiseling his head on Mt. Rushmore right now. How's that for an over reach?

ROYC75
08-26-2009, 10:46 AM
Keeping my opinions to myself.

RIP.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 10:47 AM
I think you must view it historically. I've no doubt that you aware of the animosity between out two countries at the time? Would you not consider this to be giving aid and comfort to the enemy, while simultaneously attempting to undermine the efforts of the duly elected government of the United States?

Technically, I'm not sure they were the "enemy". Again, that's a technical legality, obviously, our country and Russia were hostile during this time period.

I'm not sure that discussing public image issues is aid and comfort.

It would seem to have been potentially highly politically damaging if revealed at the time, but I'm not sure if it would be technically illegal. Taht's beyond my area of knowledge, really.

Mainly, though, it seemingly never went anywhere, so perhaps everyone woke up to the fact that it was a stunningly bad idea.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 10:47 AM
Drunk driver that leaves the scene, doesn't get law enforcement involved for more than 8 hours until he gets a good nights sleep? Not to mention the others that were involved in not reporting this event. You're right, he should have done no jail time. In fact, we should start chiseling his head on Mt. Rushmore right now. How's that for an over reach?

Way to exaggerate.

BucEyedPea
08-26-2009, 10:54 AM
This country would be better off if Massachusetts seceded.
Not to mention Vermont and California.

Donger
08-26-2009, 10:56 AM
Technically, I'm not sure they were the "enemy". Again, that's a technical legality, obviously, our country and Russia were hostile during this time period.

I'm not sure that discussing public image issues is aid and comfort.

It would seem to have been potentially highly politically damaging if revealed at the time, but I'm not sure if it would be technically illegal. Taht's beyond my area of knowledge, really.

Mainly, though, it seemingly never went anywhere, so perhaps everyone woke up to the fact that it was a stunningly bad idea.

Do you think that, if accurate, what Kennedy suggested doing would have undermined the efforts of the duly elected government of the United States?

Frazod
08-26-2009, 10:57 AM
Was he the last surviving sibling?

dirk digler
08-26-2009, 10:57 AM
Drunk driver that leaves the scene, doesn't get law enforcement involved for more than 8 hours until he gets a good nights sleep? Not to mention the others that were involved in not reporting this event. You're right, he should have done no jail time. In fact, we should start chiseling his head on Mt. Rushmore right now. How's that for an over reach?

Well for all accounts he wasn't drunk and I am not saying I agree with it but let's not pretend it doesn't happen fairly often in this country where people get killed in auto accidents by somebody with a DWI and nothing happens to them.

It is a sad and unfortunate fact.

Donger
08-26-2009, 10:59 AM
Was he the last surviving sibling?

Of Joe and Rose? If so, no. There's one left.

BucEyedPea
08-26-2009, 11:00 AM
Was he the last surviving sibling?

Careful now, Catholics have big freakin' familiesó for a reason. " Be fruitful and multiply." They're essentially tribbles. This family is a political dynasty with plenty of them still in politics or connected to politics.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 11:03 AM
This country would be better off if Massachusetts seceded.
Not to mention Vermont and California.

ROFL

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 11:05 AM
Do you think that, if accurate, what Kennedy suggested doing would have undermined the efforts of the duly elected government of the United States?

Possibly. It's really an open question of what the heck was supposedly proposed. The summary seems a bit vague.

And he would actually have needed to DO what might have been suggested. Presumably, someone woke up to what a bad idea this was before it got any further.

Donger
08-26-2009, 11:12 AM
Possibly. It's really an open question of what the heck was supposedly proposed. The summary seems a bit vague.

And he would actually have needed to DO what might have been suggested. Presumably, someone woke up to what a bad idea this was before it got any further.

Sorry, but even contemplating engaging a country who at the very least was not friendly and suggesting a path that would have undermined the duly elected government of the United States is bad enough. Actually acting on the impulse and engaging that non-friendly government?

Horrendously egregious.

BucEyedPea
08-26-2009, 11:13 AM
ROFL

Nervous reaction, 'eh?

I can tell you that in my travels through this country, when it's found out I'm from Mass, they say people from Mass are crazy due solely to her politics.

Take a look at it. They don't fit.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 11:14 AM
Sorry, but even contemplating engaging a country who at the very least was not friendly and suggesting a path that would have undermined the duly elected government of the United States is bad enough. Actually acting on the impulse and engaging that non-friendly government?

Horrendously egregious.

Pretty much. I'm not really arguing that it was otherwise.

Your question was whether it was illegal. I'm not sure it was. But it sure as hell wasn't bright.

Donger
08-26-2009, 11:17 AM
Pretty much. I'm not really arguing that it was otherwise.

Your question was whether it was illegal. I'm not sure it was. But it sure as hell wasn't bright.

Well, I think you'd be hard-pressed to state that the Soviet Union was not our enemy in 1983. That being said, I've no doubt that legal types could wiggle their way out of it.

Section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. The Congress shall have power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 11:18 AM
Nervous reaction, 'eh?

I can tell you that in my travels through this country, when it's found out I'm from Mass, they say people from Mass are crazy due solely to her politics.

Take a look at it. They don't fit.

Nervous reaction? You're kidding. To what, the silly suggestion that we secede? We're not, sorry. Oy. :rolleyes:

Don't fit how?

Don't fit because of gay marriage? Which has been adopted in several other states?

And when you say don't fit, if you combine the populations of, let's say, Massachusetts, Vermont, Rhode Island, California and Oregon -- let's stop there though including New York would be tempting, then you're talking about darn near 20% of the entire population of the country.

And economically, the impact of those areas is even more significant. You'd lose all of Silicon Valley, Berkeley, Cal-Tech, MIT, Harvard, the 128 Belt, the Biotechnology centers of the United States, and probably half of the top 20 hospitals in the country.

You're, as usual, just being a nut.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 11:19 AM
Well, I think you'd be hard-pressed to state that the Soviet Union was not our enemy in 1983. That being said, I've no doubt that legal types could wiggle their way out of it.

Section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. The Congress shall have power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

If you're talking Treason, then forget it. It's damn near impossible to find anyone guilty of treason under the Constitution due to some unfortunate court precedents. The whole section should probably be rewritten into something useful if/when a Constitutional Convention si ever held again.

Or just legislate something better.

Pitt Gorilla
08-26-2009, 11:21 AM
Ted Kennedy's life is a truly amazing story, filled with tragedy and tragic mistakes, while also a story in some ways of redemption as he rose to be quite possibly the greatest (as in most successful) Senator in history.

Say what you will about him, he always cared for people, especially the common man, and he was THE most effective legislator of the last 50 years, with an amazing ability to reach across the aisle and meet his legislative goals.

He was a tremendously powerful voice for Massachusetts in Washington, and will be missed.I disagreed with him on many things, but he did do some good for the country; I believe he was instrumental in the Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, Americans with Disabilities Act, Family Medical Leave Act, etc.

Chiefshrink
08-26-2009, 11:22 AM
Flipped over to see what Fox News' take was on this. Only to see a news model introduce the "story of the day"... a screwup that sent some stimulus checks to prisoners.

That's the "story of the day".

Stay classy Fox News.


:hmmm: Let's see, here we have our govt who can't get 'cash for clunkers' to run correctly and NOW they(DEMS) can't even determine who is incarcerated and who is not among the American population sending prisoners our honestly earned taxed dollars;yet they(DEMS) "INSIST WE MUST" have govt run healthcare!

Now why in the hell would I trust the govt with my health(matter of life issues) when they can't even determine who is incarcerated and who is not?? Let alone the USPS,Cash for clunkers,Medicare,Medicaid etc.......:shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug: Yes I believe Fox is reporting what is relevant to the protection of the American people(regardless of party) as the Press is "SUPPOSED" to do.

Yes Fox is doing the right thing by not turning their whole news day into a 'shrine of Ted Kennedy worship' unlike PMSNBC. I'm sure if Obama gave Matthews a tickle up his leg then the death of Ted probably feels like a "vibrator in his ass".

Must be embarrassing for you jAZ and very tiresome to keep on defending this WH every day. I see you as the Robert Gibbs of CP.:D

wild1
08-26-2009, 11:23 AM
Pretty much. I'm not really arguing that it was otherwise.

Your question was whether it was illegal. I'm not sure it was. But it sure as hell wasn't bright.

Giving aid and comfort to the nation's enemies is the very definition of treason.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 11:29 AM
Giving aid and comfort to the nation's enemies is the very definition of treason.

Yes, but there's a million issues here, if you're going to try to use it here.

1. no aid/comfort actually given.

2. no state of war or other open hostilities with the "enemy", so are they an "enemy" to begin with?

The lawyers would have a field day with this, if tried.

Donger
08-26-2009, 11:30 AM
If you're talking Treason, then forget it. It's damn near impossible to find anyone guilty of treason under the Constitution due to some unfortunate court precedents. The whole section should probably be rewritten into something useful if/when a Constitutional Convention si ever held again.

Or just legislate something better.

I wouldn't imagine Teddy would have ever been brought up on charges of treason, considering the Chappaquiddick precedent.

That being said, at the very least, if Teddy actually did this, he took a rather severe lurch towards committing treason, IMO.

LOCOChief
08-26-2009, 11:32 AM
Flipped over to see what Fox News' take was on this. Only to see a news model introduce the "story of the day"... a screwup that sent some stimulus checks to prisoners.

That's the "story of the day".

Stay classy Fox News.

Actually Fox New's story of the day is Ted, first thing on this morning at 5:30 am. What would you know about classy anyway JIZ?

LOCOChief
08-26-2009, 11:34 AM
This country would be better off if Massachusetts seceded.
Not to mention Vermont and California.

1,000 reps for you!

Inspector
08-26-2009, 11:36 AM
Isn't there a band called "The Dead Kennedy's" or something like that?

Maybe they can add him in.

Oh and R.I.P. Ted! Dont mean no disrespect.

Reaper16
08-26-2009, 11:40 AM
I guarantee that if Ron Paul had a drunk driving manslaughter incident in his past that none of those vilifying Ted Kennedy would give a shit.

blaise
08-26-2009, 11:43 AM
I guarantee that if Ron Paul had a drunk driving manslaughter incident in his past that none of those vilifying Ted Kennedy would give a shit.

And the people applauding his efforts would be. That's the way it goes.

Reaper16
08-26-2009, 11:45 AM
And the people applauding his efforts would be. That's the way it goes.
You're probably right. It sucks either way.

Garcia Bronco
08-26-2009, 11:47 AM
I guarantee that if Ron Paul had a drunk driving manslaughter incident in his past that none of those vilifying Ted Kennedy would give a shit.


Forget his politics or anything...the bottom line is when no one was looking he left a woman to die and went home and didn't call anyone except his staff to perform damage control. He's POS and the world is better off without his kind.

dirk digler
08-26-2009, 11:49 AM
They say he is going to buried in Arlington. Don't know if it is going to be next to John and Robert

Brock
08-26-2009, 11:49 AM
I commend him for his accomplishments, such as rising from a rich, entitled, connected family all the way up one rung of the ladder to Washington DC.

Donger
08-26-2009, 11:52 AM
They say he is going to buried in Arlington. Don't know if it is going to be next to John and Robert

Why would or should he be buried at Arlington?

Donger
08-26-2009, 11:53 AM
Burial criteria
Hundreds of volunteers gathered at Arlington to place more than five thousand donated Christmas wreaths on head stones in the cemetery. The 14th annual wreath laying event is a result of Worcester Wreath Company owner Morrill Worcester's boyhood dream of doing something to honor those laid to rest in the National Cemetery.

Part 553 of Title 32 of the Code of Federal Regulations establishes regulations for Arlington National Cemetery, including eligibility for interment (ground burial) and inurnment (columbarium). 32 C.F.R. 553 Eligibility for burial differs from eligibility for inurnment in the columbarium at Arlington National Cemetery. Due to limited space, ground burial eligibility criteria are much more restrictive than other National Cemeteries, as well as more restrictive than inurnment in the columbarium.

The persons specified below are eligible for ground burial in Arlington National Cemetery, unless otherwise prohibited.[13] The last period of active duty of former members of the Armed Forces must have ended honorably. Interment may be casketed or cremated remains.

* Any active-duty member of the Armed Forces (except those members serving on active duty for training only).
* Any veteran who is retired from service with the Armed Forces.
* Any veteran who is retired from the Reserves is eligible upon reaching age 60 and drawing retired pay; and who served a period of active duty (other than for training).
* Any former member of the Armed Forces separated honorably prior to October 1, 1949 for medical reasons and who was rated at 30% or greater disabled effective on the day of discharge.
* Any former member of the Armed Forces who has been awarded one of the following decorations:
o Medal of Honor
o Distinguished Service Cross, Navy Cross or Air Force Cross
o Distinguished Service Medal
o Silver Star
o Purple Heart
* Individuals awarded the Central Intelligence Agency's (CIA) Intelligence Star which is considered the equivalent of the US Military's Silver Star and recognized as such by the President of the United States. [14]
* The President of the United States or any former President of the United States.
* Any former member of the Armed Forces who served on active duty (other than for training) and who held any of the following positions:
o An elective office of the U.S. Government (such as a term in Congress).
o Office of the Chief Justice of the United States or of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States.
o An office listed, at the time the person held the position, in 5 USC 5312 or 5313 (Levels I and II of the Executive Schedule).
o The chief of a mission who was at any time during his/her tenure classified in Class I under the provisions of Section 411, Act of 13 August 1946, 60 Stat. 1002, as amended (22 USC 866) or as listed in State Department memorandum dated March 21, 1988.
* Any former prisoner of war who, while a prisoner of war, served honorably in the active military, naval, or air service, whose last period of military, naval or air service terminated honorably and who died on or after November 30, 1993.
* The spouse, widow or widower, minor child, or permanently dependent child, and certain unmarried adult children of any of the above eligible veterans.
* The widow or widower of:
o a member of the Armed Forces who was lost or buried at sea or fell out of a plane or officially determined to be missing in action.
o a member of the Armed Forces who is interred in a US military cemetery overseas that is maintained by the American Battle Monuments Commission.
o a member of the Armed Forces who is interred in Arlington National Cemetery as part of a group burial.
* The spouse, minor child, or permanently dependent child of any person already buried in Arlington National Cemetery.
* The parents of a minor child, or permanently dependent child whose remains, based on the eligibility of a parent, are already buried in ANC. A spouse divorced from the primary eligible, or widowed and remarried, is not eligible for interment.
* Provided certain conditions are met, a former member of the Armed Forces may be buried in the same grave with a close relative who is already buried and is the primary eligible.

dirk digler
08-26-2009, 11:55 AM
An elective office of the U.S. Government (such as a term in Congress).

There you go

Donger
08-26-2009, 11:57 AM
An elective office of the U.S. Government (such as a term in Congress).

There you go

Read again. I don't believe that Teddy ever served:

* Any former member of the Armed Forces who served on active duty (other than for training) and who held any of the following positions:

o An elective office of the U.S. Government (such as a term in Congress).

Donger
08-26-2009, 11:58 AM
I stand corrected:

Kennedy enlisted in the United States Army in June 1951.[9] Following basic training at Fort Dix, he requested assignment to Fort Holabird for Army Intelligence training, but was dropped after a few weeks without explanation.[9] He went to Camp Gordon for training in the Military Police Corps.[9] In June 1952, he was assigned to the honor guard at SHAPE headquarters in Paris.[4][9] His father's political connections ensured he was not deployed to the ongoing Korean War.[4][10] While stationed in Europe he travelled extensively on weekends and climbed the Matterhorn.[11] He was discharged in March 1953 as a private first class.[9][11]

dirk digler
08-26-2009, 12:00 PM
Read again. I don't believe that Teddy ever served:

* Any former member of the Armed Forces who served on active duty (other than for training) and who held any of the following positions:

o An elective office of the U.S. Government (such as a term in Congress).

Ok I missed the first statement

Edit: I see that you posted he served so that will do it. I didn't know he served in the military.

mlyonsd
08-26-2009, 12:02 PM
Jacqueline is buried there as well.

Pioli Zombie
08-26-2009, 12:02 PM
You watch, the WH and the "communist press" will try to use Teddy's death as a symbolic inspirational sympathetic reason to pass this sh**ty healthscare bill;"Lets focus on Ted and how we should pass this bill for him!:rolleyes:

What I hope happens is that God shows grace to Teddy so he has the opportunity to apologize to Mary Jo for his manslaughter cowardice act .:thumb:

And Asshole Planet doesn't disappoint.

17 minutes.
Posted via Mobile Device

Donger
08-26-2009, 12:02 PM
Ok I missed the first statement

Edit: I see that you posted he served so that will do it. I didn't know he served in the military.

Kind of sounds like a European vacation, but he did indeed serve on active duty. As did Bobby, of which I was not aware.

Inspector
08-26-2009, 12:05 PM
My parents are buried at Ft. Leavenworth.

They were never senators that I can recall. But then, I do have a lousy memory.

dirk digler
08-26-2009, 12:05 PM
Kind of sounds like a European vacation, but he did indeed serve on active duty.

LMAO

Pretty much and certainly wasn't distinguished. That is one thing that I don't like from either side. Alot of these politicians get deferments and try to get out of war. You signed up for the military you dumb asses what do you think could happen.

wild1
08-26-2009, 12:07 PM
I guarantee that if Ron Paul had a drunk driving manslaughter incident in his past that none of those vilifying Ted Kennedy would give a shit.

Bush had a drunk driving arrest 30 years before the election, and it was sprung the weekend before and the media made it a major issue.

Tiger's Fan
08-26-2009, 12:11 PM
He was trying to change the current rule in Massachusetts, which requires a special election to replace him. That would take many months, and he was hoping to have the rule changed so that the government could appoint a senator to replace him until the election is held.

It's unclear what will happen. Martha Coakley, current AG, is a candidate, as is Joe Kennedy. A former House memeber, think it's Marty Meehan, has the largest potential war chest, which is a big advantage in the short time frame prior to the election.

The law was changed in 2004 so that then govenor Mitt Romney couldn't appoint a Republican to replace John Kerry in the event he had won the presidential election. Ironic eh?

All Ted Kennedy was is the poster boy for term limits.

memyselfI
08-26-2009, 12:15 PM
I feel bad for Caroline. This is probably like losing her father all over again. He did take on that role for her.

RedNeckRaider
08-26-2009, 12:25 PM
Good riddance

CoMoChief
08-26-2009, 12:38 PM
RIP asshole.

donkhater
08-26-2009, 12:44 PM
I guarantee that if Ron Paul had a drunk driving manslaughter incident in his past that none of those vilifying Ted Kennedy would give a shit.


Wrong. If Ron Paul had a drunk driving manslaughter incident in his past he wouldn't have the ground swell of support he currently has. One of the reasons he has that support is because of his impeccable track record as a physican and gentlemen who truly believes in governments limited role (i.e. he backs up those beleifs with his votes). He hasn't been called the most honest man in Washington for escaping a manslaughter charge.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 12:51 PM
Kind of sounds like a European vacation, but he did indeed serve on active duty. As did Bobby, of which I was not aware.

Having already lost the oldest boy in the war, I can hardly blame the old man for pulling strings. I doubt I'd do any thing different.

Donger
08-26-2009, 12:53 PM
Having already lost the oldest boy in the war, I can hardly blame the old man for pulling strings. I doubt I'd do any thing different.

Considering that old Joe's nastiness indirectly lead to his death, sure.

Donger
08-26-2009, 12:54 PM
Chris Matthews: Barack's The Last Brother!

LMAO

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 12:58 PM
Considering that old Joe's nastiness indirectly lead to his death, sure.


Haven't heard anything about this (at least that I can recall)...

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 12:59 PM
Chris Matthews: Barack's The Last Brother!

LMAO

Well, then at least we can get rid of the birther thing -- don't think Rose was ever in Kenya...






:p

Donger
08-26-2009, 01:01 PM
Haven't heard anything about this (at least that I can recall)...

I'm going from memory here, but when Joe Kennedy heard that JFK had won whatever decoration he did for managing to get his PT boat cut in half, Joe Kennedy broke down in tears and vowed to out do him. He then volunteered for the mission that killed him.

Daddy Kennedy instilled massive competition between the children, particularly the males.

Therefore, he was indirectly responsible for Joe's death.

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 01:33 PM
I'm going from memory here, but when Joe Kennedy heard that JFK had won whatever decoration he did for managing to get his PT boat cut in half, Joe Kennedy broke down in tears and vowed to out do him. He then volunteered for the mission that killed him.

Daddy Kennedy instilled massive competition between the children, particularly the males.

Therefore, he was indirectly responsible for Joe's death.

Wow. That's just silly.

Look, old Joe was a womanizing, heavy-drinking a-hole who got rich in part by running alcohol during prohibition. There are also some valid allegations about his Nazi sympathies. There's plenty ot hang around his neck without getting silly about it.

Besides, no reason to be bitter -- IIRC, he suffered a stroke or soemthing in about '61-'62 that left him alive and aware, but iwth limited speech, and then lived long enough to see the son he made President shot down, and another son shot down while running for President. That's not even mentioning the handicapped sister who underwent some kind of botched lobotomy, and the other sister who died in the late 40s (plane accident or somesuch).

I think he might have even lived long enough to know about Chappaquiddick.

The old bastard paid plenty for whatever sins he committed in life.

Donger
08-26-2009, 01:39 PM
Wow. That's just silly.

Look, old Joe was a womanizing, heavy-drinking a-hole who got rich in part by running alcohol during prohibition. There are also some valid allegations about his Nazi sympathies. There's plenty ot hang around his neck without getting silly about it.

Besides, no reason to be bitter -- IIRC, he suffered a stroke or soemthing in about '61-'62 that left him alive and aware, but iwth limited speech, and then lived long enough to see the son he made President shot down, and another son shot down while running for President. The old bastard paid plenty for whatever sins he committed in life.

Who encouraged and demanded such competition among his sons that they went to extremely dangerous lengths to please him.

Chief Henry
08-26-2009, 01:40 PM
Chris Matthews: Barack's The Last Brother!

LMAO




wtf....are you saying Chris Mathews is calling Obama a Kennedy ?

Donger
08-26-2009, 01:42 PM
wtf....are you saying Chris Mathews is calling Obama a Kennedy ?

http://www.breitbart.tv/chris-matthews-on-kennedy-lineage-baracks-now-the-last-brother/

Pitt Gorilla
08-26-2009, 01:48 PM
Bush had a drunk driving arrest 30 years before the election, and it was sprung the weekend before and the media made it a major issue.Didn't W's wife kill a guy with her car?

What's up with all of the car-related troubles for these political folks?

KC Dan
08-26-2009, 01:51 PM
http://www.breitbart.tv/chris-matthews-on-kennedy-lineage-baracks-now-the-last-brother/hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Amnorix
08-26-2009, 01:56 PM
Who encouraged and demanded such competition among his sons that they went to extremely dangerous lengths to please him.

He died in an accident. Was the mission dangerous? Sure, but to hang it on Joe for "creating a highly competitive environment?"

It's silly.

And Joe wasn't exactly 15 years old here. He's an adult, fully responsible for his own actions. For someone who tends to champion individual responsibility, it's pretty silly to hang this on the parent. Do you look at the parents when a 20-something year old commits murder too?

Donger
08-26-2009, 01:59 PM
He died in an accident. Was the mission dangerous? Sure, but to hang it on Joe for "creating a highly competitive environment?"

It's silly.

And Joe wasn't exactly 15 years old here. He's an adult, fully responsible for his own actions. For someone who tends to champion individual responsibility, it's pretty silly to hang this on the parent. Do you look at the parents when a 20-something year old commits murder too?

I'm trying to find you a quote. Joe Jr. said something the effect of, "I'll show the old man! I'm going to be awarded the MoH for my mission!"

I don't know how else you would analyze that, but to see that old Joe had a massive influence on his sons' lives, even when adults.

Duck Dog
08-26-2009, 02:00 PM
http://www.breitbart.tv/chris-matthews-on-kennedy-lineage-baracks-now-the-last-brother/

Liberals are weirdos when it comes to elevating someone. I worship no one or nothing.

Reaper16
08-26-2009, 02:21 PM
http://www.breitbart.tv/chris-matthews-on-kennedy-lineage-baracks-now-the-last-brother/
Leg, thrill, etc.

Calcountry
08-26-2009, 02:31 PM
Per Fox NewsIt must be a lie then, not until I hear it from MSNBC will I believe it.

joke off/ Good Bye Teddy, you will not be missed by me politically. I am sorry for your family, and offer my condolences.

Calcountry
08-26-2009, 02:34 PM
every once in a while, i don't feel bad when someone dies. forgive me if this makes me a bad person.It was the only way he would leave the senate. Robert KKK Byrd is next up for retirement.

Calcountry
08-26-2009, 02:35 PM
Hell, this 18min of graceTeddy got is going to be more grace than any of us will get with this "Teddy/Obama healthscare bill.:rolleyes:Do you seriously think the left will give a shit when George W Bush dies?

Reaper16
08-26-2009, 02:48 PM
Do you seriously think the left will give a shit when George W Bush dies?
Not giving a shit is different than being all "Hooray! That POS is finally fucking dead!"

Chiefshrink
08-26-2009, 03:23 PM
And Asshole Planet doesn't disappoint.

17 minutes.
Posted via Mobile Device

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!! It was 18 minutes according to 'direckshun' you "tweezer dick"!!!:rolleyes:

Saggysack
08-26-2009, 03:33 PM
So long, Senator.

wild1
08-26-2009, 03:49 PM
Not giving a shit is different than being all "Hooray! That POS is finally ****ing dead!"

which is precisely what many of them will do for bush, cheney, et al

Reaper16
08-26-2009, 03:51 PM
which is precisely what many of them will do for bush, cheney, et al
Do you condone this?

Saul Good
08-26-2009, 03:54 PM
Not giving a shit is different than being all "Hooray! That POS is finally ****ing dead!"

Yeah. 3 years after Reagan died nobody was still creating new threads celebrating his death....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3385544

wild1
08-26-2009, 03:54 PM
Do you condone this?

Condone what? Celebrating someone's death? I guess it depends on the person.

Whose grave was it last week or the week before that somebody was taking a leak on... Oh, it was Bob Novak. I have not seen the 'don't speak ill of the dead' in practice around here. I don't expect it would begin at a future date.

Reaper16
08-26-2009, 03:58 PM
Condone what? Celebrating someone's death? I guess it depends on the person.

Whose grave was it last week or the week before that somebody was taking a leak on... Oh, it was Bob Novak. I have not seen the 'don't speak ill of the dead' in practice around here. I don't expect it would begin at a future date.
It won't begin here, ever. Whatever. I didn't think that we were talking about just people on this board.

Saul Good
08-26-2009, 04:01 PM
Not giving a shit is different than being all "Hooray! That POS is finally ****ing dead!"

I'm going to need to see some examples of that kind of exuberance.

dirk digler
08-26-2009, 04:01 PM
Condone what? Celebrating someone's death? I guess it depends on the person.

Whose grave was it last week or the week before that somebody was taking a leak on... Oh, it was Bob Novak. I have not seen the 'don't speak ill of the dead' in practice around here. I don't expect it would begin at a future date.

That is kind of funny considering the Novak thread turned into laughing about Kennedy dying.

wild1
08-26-2009, 04:01 PM
It won't begin here, ever. Whatever. I didn't think that we were talking about just people on this board.

It's a silly debate. You comment on whether or not the world is better, or if you are happy to see someone go, based on what they did in their life. A great person you would have a thought of respect for. If it's Robert Mugabe who just bought the farm, you'd probably not have a good word to say.

If an infamous person died, I wouldn't have a problem expressing relief or conviction that they were not a good person. Why should people be shamed into giving someone a more lenient treatment than they deserve just because they are dead?

wild1
08-26-2009, 04:02 PM
That is kind of funny considering the Novak thread turned into laughing about Kennedy dying.

It was only page 1 or 2 before someone made a series of posts, at least from what I remember, basically denigrating him thoroughly, not really coming out celebrating his death, but basically making the sentiment known that they took satisfaction in it.

Reaper16
08-26-2009, 04:02 PM
It's a silly debate. You comment on whether or not the world is better, or if you are happy to see someone go, based on what they did in their life. A great person you would have a thought of respect for. If it's Robert Mugabe who just bought the farm, you'd probably not have a good word to say.

If an infamous person died, I wouldn't have a problem expressing relief or conviction that they were not a good person. Why should people be shamed into giving someone a more lenient treatment than they deserve just because they are dead?
I don't much care either way, as long as its consistent.

dirk digler
08-26-2009, 04:07 PM
It was only page 1 or 2 before someone made a series of posts, at least from what I remember, basically denigrating him thoroughly, not really coming out celebrating his death, but basically making the sentiment known that they took satisfaction in it.

The only person who really said anything negative was Frankie.

The first page was pretty much hoping Teddy will die and some other nonsense. Kind of eerie how that all played out.

I get bashing on dead people I did alot of it when Michael Jackson died.

WilliamTheIrish
08-26-2009, 07:05 PM
Peace in Ireland?

American's with Disabiilties Act?

Civil Rights Act of 1964?

Campaign Finance Reform?

Visiting Soweto during Apartheid and supproting economic sanctions against the Apartheid government?

COBRA -- which relates to post-employment health care?

Even if you don't like No Child Left Behind or some other acts that may have unsupportable costs, I'd be surprised if you disliked everything that he helped accomplish.

1) Yea, after 09-11-01, he took a stand against the back room cash financing of SinnFein.

2) He led a life of privelege. Never worked a day in his life.

3) Plenty of Senate members had a hand in CRA.

4) He was a Senator for 40 years. Nobody could challenge him. They'd have been crushed. Even after killing another human being.

5) BFD.

6) COBRA? Try to afford that shit w/o a job.

How about he pilfered money for about a thousand years while you idiots try that boondoggle construction effort?

Face it dude. The guy is the epitome of what is wrong with the Senate. If John Adams were alive today, he would have asked Aaron Burr to shoot Kennedy. I absolutely loathe the man and everything he stands for.

WilliamTheIrish
08-26-2009, 07:13 PM
I disagreed with him on many things, but he did do some good for the country; I believe he was instrumental in the Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, Americans with Disabilities Act, Family Medical Leave Act, etc.

FMLA.... what a horrible pos that legislation that turned out to be. Just this year the gov't sent out it's final bill. 20 years it took for that shit to be 'crafted'.

WilliamTheIrish
08-26-2009, 07:16 PM
Who encouraged and demanded such competition among his sons that they went to extremely dangerous lengths to please him.

That's the most incredibly stupid thing you've ever said that wasn't about medical care.

Good job, donghair.

BucEyedPea
08-26-2009, 08:22 PM
I disagreed with him on many things, but he did do some good for the country; I believe he was instrumental in the Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, Americans with Disabilities Act, Family Medical Leave Act, etc.

Yup! You're a Democrat alright. Nice fascist pieces of legislation on American businesses in bold.

patteeu
08-26-2009, 08:43 PM
It would seem that even God isn't comfortable with a filibuster-proof democrat majority while Obama is in the White House.

***SPRAYER
08-26-2009, 08:51 PM
Looks like the gravy train has done dripped dry for the good people of Assachussets.


Errrah.

Saul Good
08-26-2009, 08:52 PM
With Robert Byrd in failing health, they are going to need to hurry up and elect some new lynchers and murderers.

***SPRAYER
08-26-2009, 08:55 PM
Errrrah.

dirk digler
08-26-2009, 08:59 PM
With Robert Byrd in failing health, they are going to need to hurry up and elect some new lynchers and murderers.

That shouldn't be a problem they can probably bribe the Republican Party to send some over since that is what 99% of the party is


Zing.........

J/k girls relax

BucEyedPea
08-26-2009, 09:05 PM
Looks like the gravy train has done dripped dry for the good people of Assachussets.


Errrah.

They call them Massholes too. LMAO

BucEyedPea
08-26-2009, 09:07 PM
How about he pilfered money for about a thousand years while you idiots try that boondoggle construction effort?

Face it dude. The guy is the epitome of what is wrong with the Senate. If John Adams were alive today, he would have asked Aaron Burr to shoot Kennedy. I absolutely loathe the man and everything he stands for.

ROFL The BIG DIG was a nightmare of hellish proportions!!!!! Of course they also have what is known as the Southeast Distressway too! ROFL

Norman Einstein
08-26-2009, 09:13 PM
Ted Kennedy's life is a truly amazing story, filled with tragedy and tragic mistakes, while also a story in some ways of redemption as he rose to be quite possibly the greatest (as in most successful) Senator in history.

Say what you will about him, he always cared for people, especially the common man, and he was THE most effective legislator of the last 50 years, with an amazing ability to reach across the aisle and meet his legislative goals.

He was a tremendously powerful voice for Massachusetts in Washington, and will be missed.

Kind words. I'm sorry that I can't agree with your sentiment. I have always seen TK as someone that was only looking out for #1.

I'm sure that we will all hear over the next week of all of his accomplishments and some will also point out his failures.

I pray for peace with his family, regardless of what all of us feel .. good or bad .. his family is hurting and needs all the prayers they can get.

***SPRAYER
08-26-2009, 09:15 PM
My sistah Rosemary had a powah drill put into huh skull. Errrrrrrrah.

Rain Man
08-26-2009, 09:34 PM
The unfortunate thing about losing Senator Kennedy is that I could pretty much look at his vote and assume that I want the opposite to happen. It made politics very easy.

BucEyedPea
08-26-2009, 09:38 PM
The unfortunate thing about losing Senator Kennedy is that I could pretty much look at his vote and assume that I want the opposite to happen. It made politics very easy.

LMAO Excellent!

googlegoogle
08-26-2009, 10:08 PM
http://hubpolitics.com/2009/03/13/the-kennedy-pork/

***SPRAYER
08-27-2009, 05:29 PM
Looks like the gravy train is over, Assachussets.

WilliamTheIrish
08-27-2009, 08:19 PM
I was messing around in a shop in Julian, Ca and while looking through some vintage magazines I saw this LIFE magazine issue from 1969. The magazine was sealed and I sooo wanted to buy it to reread the story.

Saul Good
08-27-2009, 08:21 PM
I was messing around in a shop in Julian, Ca and while looking through some vintage magazines I saw this LIFE magazine issue from 1969. The magazine was sealed and I sooo wanted to buy it to reread the story.

How much was it?

KCTitus
08-27-2009, 09:21 PM
no more late night waitress sandwiches...I guess.

Chief Henry
08-28-2009, 06:44 AM
http://hubpolitics.com/2009/03/13/the-kennedy-pork/



That is unreal.

Amnorix
08-28-2009, 08:46 AM
Looks like the gravy train is over, Assachussets.

As usual, you have no clue. He was never that much of a pork barrel guy. Nowhere near a STevens or Byrd.

And, P.S., like most Blue states, Massachusetts sends more money to the federal government than it gets back.


In contrast, of the 16 states that are "losers" -- receiving less in federal spending than they pay in federal taxes -- 69% are Blue States that voted for Al Gore in 2000. Indeed, 11 of the 14 (79%) of the states receiving the least federal spending per dollar of federal taxes paid are Blue States. Here are the Top 10 states that supply feed for the federal trough (with Blue States highlighted in bold):

States Receiving Least in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid:
1. New Jersey ($0.62)
2. Connecticut ($0.64)
3. New Hampshire ($0.68)
4. Nevada ($0.73)
5. Illinois ($0.77)
6. Minnesota ($0.77)
7. Colorado ($0.79)
8. Massachusetts ($0.79)
9. California ($0.81)
10. New York ($0.81)


http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2004/09/red_states_feed.html

Donger
08-28-2009, 08:51 AM
That's the most incredibly stupid thing you've ever said that wasn't about medical care.

Good job, donghair.

Yes, too bad it's factual, eh? If you doubt me, please feel free to educate yourself about the man.

Amnorix
08-28-2009, 08:57 AM
Try to be moderately educated on this. Rail about Chappaquiddick if you like, that's fine. At least it's factual.

1) Yea, after 09-11-01, he took a stand against the back room cash financing of SinnFein.

It was in the 90s, mostly, that he did this.

2) He led a life of privelege. Never worked a day in his life. Congresscritters don't work? At all? Wow. That's news. Maybe you should read about how both sides of the aisle are praising his dedication, hard work and perseverance.

3) Plenty of Senate members had a hand in CRA. Yes, but some were more important than others.

How about he pilfered money for about a thousand years while you idiots try that boondoggle construction effort? You don't even know what you're talking about. He didn't run the damn thing. He didn't cause the fraud. That was mismanagement by the contractors and the officials running the program. Might as well blame Tip too, who has been dead for 10 years or whatever.

Face it dude. The guy is the epitome of what is wrong with the Senate. If John Adams were alive today, he would have asked Aaron Burr to shoot Kennedy. I absolutely loathe the man and everything he stands for.

Your bitterness shows. It's ok, I feel about the same for Jesse Helms. If you honestly think he never did a single good thing in 50 years in the Senate, that's fine. It's wrong, but fine.

Amnorix
08-28-2009, 08:59 AM
Kind words. I'm sorry that I can't agree with your sentiment. I have always seen TK as someone that was only looking out for #1.

Like FDR, he was basically a class traitor -- someone who was rich who wanted the common man to have access to what he had access to.

Even if you think his policies were all misguided and stupid, I'm surprised to find that some think he was just looking out for himself. That doesn't really make much sense to me.

WilliamTheIrish
08-28-2009, 09:06 AM
How much was it?

It was only $13. Just couldn't bring myself to buy it.

Norman Einstein
08-28-2009, 09:25 AM
Like FDR, he was basically a class traitor -- someone who was rich who wanted the common man to have access to what he had access to.

Even if you think his policies were all misguided and stupid, I'm surprised to find that some think he was just looking out for himself. That doesn't really make much sense to me.

You misunderstand the point, he wasn't ignoring the common man, but his best interests were always foremost. If he really cared for the common man there would be mounds of proof to substantiate the claim. How many days did he serve food at the homeless shelters in Mass. or in DC?

This can turn into a really ugly pissing contest. He's gone, we all have our concept of what he did to the country and for the country. Let it rest at that is my feeling.

ROYC75
08-28-2009, 09:25 AM
Like FDR, he was basically a class traitor -- someone who was rich who wanted the common man to have access to what he had access to.

He never offered me the opportunity to have access to what he had. Sucker was lined with more money that he needed, I would have surely taken up his offer had he handed some of it out.:huh:

Ya know, socialism, spread the wealth around. He wasn't very good with it when it comes to me. I mean, I might buy into this whole socialism stuff if they would have played the cards right and given me the dough.:D

Amnorix
08-28-2009, 09:46 AM
You misunderstand the point, he wasn't ignoring the common man, but his best interests were always foremost. If he really cared for the common man there would be mounds of proof to substantiate the claim. How many days did he serve food at the homeless shelters in Mass. or in DC?


So the best use of a United States Senator's time to help the common man is to serve food for a homeless shelter -- something anyone can do? While he gets no credit for the Americans with Disabilities Act, countless civil rights laws, etc?

Wow. Just wow. Pure silliness.

patteeu
08-28-2009, 09:47 AM
It was only $13. Just couldn't bring myself to buy it.

I bet you could have gotten a pretty penny for it on ebay right about now.

patteeu
08-28-2009, 09:48 AM
Like FDR, he was basically a class traitor -- someone who was rich who wanted the common man to have access to what he had access to.

No, he wanted the common man to have access to money he taxed out of other people's pockets.

Amnorix
08-28-2009, 09:50 AM
He never offered me the opportunity to have access to what he had. Sucker was lined with more money that he needed, I would have surely taken up his offer had he handed some of it out.:huh:

Ya know, socialism, spread the wealth around. He wasn't very good with it when it comes to me. I mean, I might buy into this whole socialism stuff if they would have played the cards right and given me the dough.:D

If you spouse or child took unpaid leave for the birth of a new baby, then Ted Kennedy helped you. if you were ever disabled and were able to gain access to a building that previously required you to walk up stairs to get into, then Ted Kennedy helped you. If you couldn't vote in the deep south because you couldn't pay the poll tax, then Ted Kennedy helped you. If you were a child who couldn't afford insurance but got insurance anyway, then Ted Kennedy helped you. If you ever worked for minimum wage, then Ted Kennedy helped you. If you worked at a dangerous job, then Ted Kennedy helped you.

You can argue that these programs were economically inefficient or whatever, or bad because XYZ, but you can hardly say he didn't try to help the underprivileged.

Amnorix
08-28-2009, 10:11 AM
No, he wanted the common man to have access to money he taxed out of other people's pockets.

While I could certainly quibble about this to a degree, he did favor policies that had this effect, so I'm not. You're right, to a degree and from a certain point of view.

I note that "other people" in this context includes him and his family as well as other reasonably wealthy individuals.

vailpass
08-28-2009, 10:14 AM
Instead of traditional burial or cremation have they considered entombing his corpse in an automobile then submerging that automobile in a lake where he would be forever at a watery rest?
Who can say, he might bump into someone he knows?

KC native
08-28-2009, 10:15 AM
Instead of traditional burial or cremation have they considered entombing his corpse in an automobile then submerging that automobile in a lake where he would be forever at a watery rest?
Who can say, he might bump into someone he knows?

Always classy failpass. How are you today grand wizard? Did you perform your act of hatred for the day yet?

Donger
08-28-2009, 10:16 AM
While I could certainly quibble about this to a degree, he did favor policies that had this effect, so I'm not. You're right, to a degree and from a certain point of view.

I note that "other people" in this context includes him and his family as well as other reasonably wealthy individuals.

Sure:

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vailpass
08-28-2009, 10:17 AM
Always classy failpass. How are you today grand wizard? Did you perform your act of hatred for the day yet?

Senor Bullsheet, how goes it today your flabbiness? Still earning that title of Thread Herpes I see.