PDA

View Full Version : Chiefs Haley, Pioli trying to reprogram Chiefs


kc rush
08-26-2009, 01:10 PM
Nothing we haven't heard before, but he does lay into Carl and Herm a bit.

LINK (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-chiefscamp082609&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

KANSAS CITY, Mo. – Every day he wakes up, Dwayne Bowe thinks about it. The Kansas City Chiefs wideout drives to the practice facility in anticipation. He parks his SUV and ponders it. And when he finally sees coach Todd Haley, maybe in a corridor or coming around a corner, he knows how every minute of his day will play out.

“[Tuesday] when he saw me, he smiled,” Bowe said. “I knew it was going to be one of those days where he was [encouraging] me and not yelling so much. It was all positive. But if he doesn’t look at you, or he’s not smiling or talking, you know it’s going to be a [tough] day. Each day, you just never know.”

Asked if he ever thought about such a thing a year ago – reading the facial expression of former coach Herm Edwards – Bowe lets out a telling laugh and shakes his head.

“Never,” he said.

All regime changes come with uneasiness. New coaches bring new ideas, develop new favorites, and thrust veterans into situations where they are once again reading the landscape, trying to figure what it all means for them. But maybe no place this offseason has brought a more palpable shift than Kansas City, a franchise that saw a roster go through much of 2008 on autopilot, concluding with a 2-14 crash and a total purge of the team’s leadership structure. Gone are Edwards and former general manager Carl Peterson, a duo whose final days were defined by a roster filled with viral habits and elitism.

Enter Haley and general manager Scott Pioli, two men who have seemingly gone to work on the franchise’s psyche with a blowtorch and a chainsaw. With that in mind, you need only look at the Chiefs for one afternoon to realize that the blood-letting has just begun. And by the time it’s over, there may not be a player on the roster who hasn’t had the buttons inside his head re-programmed – if he can survive long enough.

That latter point is significant. Since the start of training camp on July 31, the Chiefs have made more roster moves than any other team – signing, cutting or trading 14 players. And that’s a tally that doesn’t include the inking of draft picks. While at their training site in River Falls, Wis., the Chiefs released five players. The previous regime had cut three players while in River Falls … in three years.

The message couldn’t be less ambiguous: Just because a player gets on the plane to go to camp doesn’t mean he’s getting on the plane to come back. No matter the price, Pioli and Haley have shown their dedication to churning the roster and creating endless competition.

“A day won’t go by here that Scott Pioli isn’t trying to make this team better through other players,” said Chiefs linebacker Mike Vrabel, whom Pioli acquired from New England in the offseason. “I came to expect that from eight years with the Patriots. Guys are going to come and go, and there are going to be guys constantly brought in to challenge you at your position. That’s just the way it has been. … You’re going to get an opportunity, and if you make the most of it, chances are you’ll get a second opportunity. But if you don’t, you can bet they’ll be looking for somebody else.”

The new regime wasted no time making that apparent. When Pioli took over in January, he inherited a roster that had become utterly complacent in losing. Even more, the group had developed such poor conditioning habits that a trained personnel eye could look at film from last season and see the team gaining weight from Week 1 to Week 16.

Discipline was in shambles, chemistry was largely nonexistent, and a dysfunctional star system had developed. The disjointed elitism was even apparent in the structure of the parking lot, where players were allowed to buy the best spots for their cars, rather than earn them on the field.

And it festered into the offseason, where players arrived to the beginnings of the training program grossly overweight. That included three key players – defensive tackle Glenn Dorsey, offensive tackle Branden Albert, and guard Brian Waters – who were all more than 340 pounds at one point during the offseason.

Those digits made weight and conditioning one of the highest priorities, to the point that Haley and Pioli have fined players for coming in too heavy. Ideally, Haley believes teams should never be so overweight that a roster sheds more than 150 pounds in offseason training. But the Chiefs’ last total was a staggering 767 pounds lost – a digit that screams just how poor discipline had become under Edwards’ watch.

“If that kind of weight loss ever happens again, I won’t be here,” Haley said. “Because that means I let the team get fat on my watch. It’s a shocking number – shocking even to me.”

And yet, it remains only one shocking fact in an ugly reality that has spoken just how far the Chiefs have left to go. While some of the chemistry issues have been removed from the roster (namely Tony Gonzalez, who badly needed a change of scenery), Haley is still wrenching on the remaining talent. None more publicly than Bowe, who had earned a reputation for coasting in practice and lacking intensity.

Haley made it painfully clear he wasn’t going to tolerate it, demoting Bowe to the third-string offense less than two weeks into training camp. Only this week did Bowe start taking reps with the first-team offense again – not before realizing that Haley’s mental and verbal jousting was just beginning.

“If we start off slow in practice, he’ll be like ‘OK, Bowe, I see you guys don’t want to come out here and practice, so we’ll start it all over again,’ ” Bowe said. “A good play is never good enough. … When they put me on third string, I didn’t think ‘OK, I’m going to go into a hole now.’ I just had to make more plays. The plays I was making weren’t good enough for them. I started making plays in the running game, and even in the passing game, I was running hard on dummy routes to get another guy open. I had to become a full team player instead of just worrying about me.”

Added quarterback Matt Cassell, “He doesn’t mess around. He’s to the point. Personally, I like that. I kind of experienced that a little bit with [Bill] Belichick in New England. He tells you how he feels – blunt and to the point. You always know where you stand. There’s no crap in the middle.”

That blunt approach isn’t likely to change anytime soon. Pioli and Haley both admit the roster is far from meeting their expectations. Thanks to dead drafts at the end of the Dick Vermeil era, the Chiefs lack the instrumental homegrown four- and five-year veterans that often comprise the core of a winning team. That means the next few offseasons will be rooted in procuring and developing talent around pieces like Bowe, Albert, Dorsey, and Cassell.

Until then, Haley and his staff will oversee a defense that needs to manufacture a pass rush, an offense that will have to scheme to protect Cassell, and a franchise that will have to toughen up and take lumps before it gets over some significant hurdles.

“We’re going to have to scrap to figure out ways to win games,” Haley said. “We’ve got some work to do. … There’s not a lot of room for sensitivity. That’s what I said at the beginning. I don’t want sensitive guys. I want guys that understand what’s happening – why someone is MF’ing them or why someone is screaming. It’s not about respect. It’s about having high expectations.”

While it could take some time for the Chiefs to build and meet those expectations, just establishing them might be the truest step this franchise has taken in the last two years.

the Talking Can
08-26-2009, 01:21 PM
spot on article....more info than the star has ever given us

Haley made it painfully clear he wasn’t going to tolerate it, demoting Bowe to the third-string offense less than two weeks into training camp. Only this week did Bowe start taking reps with the first-team offense again – not before realizing that Haley’s mental and verbal jousting was just beginning.

“If we start off slow in practice, he’ll be like ‘OK, Bowe, I see you guys don’t want to come out here and practice, so we’ll start it all over again,’ ” Bowe said. “A good play is never good enough. … When they put me on third string, I didn’t think ‘OK, I’m going to go into a hole now.’ I just had to make more plays. The plays I was making weren’t good enough for them. I started making plays in the running game, and even in the passing game, I was running hard on dummy routes to get another guy open. I had to become a full team player instead of just worrying about me.”

Added quarterback Matt Cassell, “He doesn’t mess around. He’s to the point. Personally, I like that. I kind of experienced that a little bit with [Bill] Belichick in New England. He tells you how he feels – blunt and to the point. You always know where you stand. There’s no crap in the middle.”


love every word of that...wait, i mean, haley is an asshole!

the Talking Can
08-26-2009, 01:22 PM
i forgot

Fuck you, Herm

raybec 4
08-26-2009, 01:24 PM
That was one long Herm/Carl bashing fest, awesome.

dirk digler
08-26-2009, 01:27 PM
One of the best articles I have read about the Chiefs. Holy crap am I happy that Carl and is elitist bullshit is gone.

Tuckdaddy
08-26-2009, 01:31 PM
Damn Herm was bad. Gaining weight during the season. Lazy fugging players under Herm. POS!

rockymtnchief
08-26-2009, 01:33 PM
Good lord, after reading that can you imagine how bad this team would have been this year under Herm.

1-15

ChiefaRoo
08-26-2009, 01:34 PM
Great article. Bowe's quotes are very telling.

Kyle DeLexus
08-26-2009, 01:36 PM
It's CASSEL not Cassell

Reerun_KC
08-26-2009, 02:13 PM
Good lord, after reading that can you imagine how bad this team would have been this year under Herm.

We where 85% complete!

Reerun_KC
08-26-2009, 02:13 PM
It's CASTLE not Cassell

FYP

LMAO

58kcfan89
08-26-2009, 02:14 PM
It's CASSEL not Cassell

This. And piss on Herm!

Molitoth
08-26-2009, 02:44 PM
Great article!! The best I've read in awhile.

SenselessChiefsFan
08-26-2009, 02:53 PM
I hate to bash guys after they have left. I think that there are fans who love the guys that are there... and then as soon as they are gone....good riddance. (For instance all the Broncos fans who now say Cutler was awful)

I admit, I thought that Herm got a bit of bad deal. I was glad he was gone, but also thought it was unfair that he was the first coach to stick his neck out to get the team younger only to lose his job.

But, without discipline... this team was going nowhere, regardless of how young and talented they were.

Anyways, I am not bashing Herm... I am bashing myself for not seeing it more clearly while he was still here.

milkman
08-26-2009, 03:10 PM
I hate to bash guys after they have left. I think that there are fans who love the guys that are there... and then as soon as they are gone....good riddance. (For instance all the Broncos fans who now say Cutler was awful)

I admit, I thought that Herm got a bit of bad deal. I was glad he was gone, but also thought it was unfair that he was the first coach to stick his neck out to get the team younger only to lose his job.

But, without discipline... this team was going nowhere, regardless of how young and talented they were.

Anyways, I am not bashing Herm... I am bashing myself for not seeing it more clearly while he was still here.

I knew from seeing the Jets in his five years there that Herman fucking Edwards sucked ass.

I was pissed when he was hired, that we traded a 4th round pick to hire him, and said so at the time.

But I kept my bitching to a minimum, continuing to express my displeasure by simply referring to him as "Herman fucking Edwards".

I don't believe I've referred to him in any other way in 3 1/2 years.

milkman
08-26-2009, 03:12 PM
And this is the best article I've read on the Chiefs in a long, long time.

God, I miss Ivan Carter.

JuicesFlowing
08-26-2009, 03:14 PM
No wonder why 80% of NFL players run out of money. They fucking pay for parking.

DaWolf
08-26-2009, 03:17 PM
I hate to bash guys after they have left. I think that there are fans who love the guys that are there... and then as soon as they are gone....good riddance. (For instance all the Broncos fans who now say Cutler was awful)

I admit, I thought that Herm got a bit of bad deal. I was glad he was gone, but also thought it was unfair that he was the first coach to stick his neck out to get the team younger only to lose his job.

But, without discipline... this team was going nowhere, regardless of how young and talented they were.

Anyways, I am not bashing Herm... I am bashing myself for not seeing it more clearly while he was still here.

I think it was right to try and get younger, but it became painfully obvious that Herm and Carl had no idea how to do it. Can you imagine the bad work habits that these young guys probably started inheriting? If anything, going young should mean you are building a hungry, hard working team, not a fat, lazy team.

Unfortunately for Haley, he gets to have the fun of going through the growing pains of weeding these guys out of here the first few years...

DaWolf
08-26-2009, 03:20 PM
And this is the best article I've read on the Chiefs in a long, long time.

God, I miss Ivan Carter.

It was a damned good article. Too many of the pieces written today have very little substance. I have no idea how this guy gets his little details that he puts into the article that the Chiefs everyday beat writers appear so lazy to get. It's like they just goes to the news conference, and then rehash everything in their article.

This was, as the original poster said, nothing new in terms of subject, but in terms of tidbits, quotes, etc, it was a totally fresh read...

SenselessChiefsFan
08-26-2009, 03:21 PM
Oh, and for the record, I am still a little worried about the defensive and offensive linemen being a little light in the a$$........ but how can Haley not impress the fans? We will see if his coaching ability matched his performance at press conferences..... but the guy has impressed me.

SenselessChiefsFan
08-26-2009, 03:24 PM
I knew from seeing the Jets in his five years there that Herman ****ing Edwards sucked ass.

I was pissed when he was hired, that we traded a 4th round pick to hire him, and said so at the time.

But I kept my bitching to a minimum, continuing to express my displeasure by simply referring to him as "Herman ****ing Edwards".

I don't believe I've referred to him in any other way in 3 1/2 years.

Oddly, his time with the Jets was what originally made me think he was a good coach. He took over a team that was two years removed from the playoffs and in decline. He got them to the playoffs. They had many of the players that Parcells had brought in that got them the division title a few years prior.

He was also the only coach to win the AFC East other than Bill Belichick during that time.

I am having a hard time accepting that I was this far wrong about a coach, but obviously, I was.

Frosty
08-26-2009, 03:33 PM
No wonder why 80% of NFL players run out of money. They ****ing pay for parking.

Yeah. God forbid that they would have to walk a little further when they come in for their workouts. :rolleyes:

Demonpenz
08-26-2009, 03:37 PM
i am not sure how you get fatter as the season goes on, but i bet it involves alchohol and fast food

Mr. Arrowhead
08-26-2009, 03:38 PM
have i mentioned that I love this regime

Hog Farmer
08-26-2009, 03:45 PM
Oddly, his time with the Jets was what originally made me think he was a good coach. He took over a team that was two years removed from the playoffs and in decline. He got them to the playoffs. They had many of the players that Parcells had brought in that got them the division title a few years prior.

He was also the only coach to win the AFC East other than Bill Belichick during that time.

I am having a hard time accepting that I was this far wrong about a coach, but obviously, I was.


Finally you're realizing you suck!

Demonpenz
08-26-2009, 04:00 PM
Haley and those guys are saying this shit and it sounds good now. It is new and not stagnant. He is kind of a redass which plays well with me because I think football should have cussing attitude and played with a pair hanging. Herm and Vermiel just came off like like pussies with no cussing and wine drinking etc.

The Bad Guy
08-26-2009, 04:10 PM
Chiefzilla and KcBubb can read that story, and then they can promptly kiss my ass.

Anyone who defends Herman Edwards for one minute after reading that can jump off a fucking bridge. How in the hell can you gain weight during the progression of the season?

Fuck you Herm. And fuck any supporter he has.

chiefzilla1501
08-26-2009, 04:21 PM
Chiefzilla and KcBubb can read that story, and then they can promptly kiss my ass.

Anyone who defends Herman Edwards for one minute after reading that can jump off a ****ing bridge. How in the hell can you gain weight during the progression of the season?

**** you Herm. And **** any supporter he has.

I shouldn't have to defend myself.

I rail on Herm Edwards for a lot of things and I said a million times that he was a flawed coach. I especially never defended his conditioning regiment. If people would actually listen and not assume that people they hate are 100% evil, they might realize that I have just as many negative things to say about Herm as positives.

I don't know why people now assume I'm some kind of an apologist.

Reerun_KC
08-26-2009, 04:30 PM
I was one of the most vocal about Herm, He should of been fired after year two, but someone got the fan base and ownership to buy into his smoke and mirrors with a youth movement...

A youth movement is a great thing, but with a talent evaluator as poor as Herm is and was, it was a joke and a slap in the face to the fans and franchise.

I never did give Herm a chance, nor bought into his pompus ass shick! He was a complete Joke in NYJ, then backed in to the playoffs here. His game plans were stale, his teams in NYJ and KC never ever progressed, but regressed after the players of the former coaching staff either retired, left or whatever. Herm could never replace those guys with quality players.

On top of that Herms choices of coaches was pretty comical to say the least. I was sick of Herm before he was here, dreaded each and every game, and glad he is so long gone... Even though it will take years to take out his trash...

Coach
08-26-2009, 05:51 PM
I shouldn't have to defend myself.

I rail on Herm Edwards for a lot of things and I said a million times that he was a flawed coach. I especially never defended his conditioning regiment. If people would actually listen and not assume that people they hate are 100% evil, they might realize that I have just as many negative things to say about Herm as positives.

I don't know why people now assume I'm some kind of an apologist.

Right, say a guy who thinks "Krumrie, maybe" in terms of getting fired, when it was obvious that he should be.

So, if you want to blame someone other than Herm, fine, blame the defensive team that couldn't generate a pass-rush worth a shit and one game, gave up 54 points at Arrowhead, their own turf.

Oh wait, we can blame that on Herm too because he already knew the Chiefs had a shitty defense, and decided to do nothing about it. And the worst thing was that he was supposed to be a "defensive minded" coach.

What pisses me off is Herm doesn't get it - just like the stooges he has working for him. The 2-14 record doesn't bother me that much. It is the complete ineptness of this team. The coaching was the worst. The offense and defense seem to have absolutely no clue how to be successful and show no signs of improvement in the entire time Herm has been here.

And yet, there are people who actually supported this fuckstick? :shake: All those people who supported him should be taken out back and shot.

wild1
08-26-2009, 06:14 PM
Good gravy.

Anyone who supports or apologizes for Carl and/or Herm, should be invited to open their veins.

Raised On Riots
08-26-2009, 06:50 PM
Awesome read.

the Talking Can
08-26-2009, 07:26 PM
this was the best chiefs article i've read in years

Psyko Tek
08-26-2009, 08:26 PM
1-15

HOMER!!!

TEX
08-26-2009, 09:36 PM
Right, say a guy who thinks "Krumrie, maybe" in terms of getting fired, when it was obvious that he should be.

So, if you want to blame someone other than Herm, fine, blame the defensive team that couldn't generate a pass-rush worth a shit and one game, gave up 54 points at Arrowhead, their own turf.

Oh wait, we can blame that on Herm too because he already knew the Chiefs had a shitty defense, and decided to do nothing about it. And the worst thing was that he was supposed to be a "defensive minded" coach.

What pisses me off is Herm doesn't get it - just like the stooges he has working for him. The 2-14 record doesn't bother me that much. It is the complete ineptness of this team. The coaching was the worst. The offense and defense seem to have absolutely no clue how to be successful and show no signs of improvement in the entire time Herm has been here.

And yet, there are people who actually supported this ****stick? :shake: All those people who supported him should be taken out back and shot.

THIS!

TEX
08-26-2009, 09:43 PM
I was one of the most vocal about Herm, He should of been fired after year two, but someone got the fan base and ownership to buy into his smoke and mirrors with a youth movement...

A youth movement is a great thing, but with a talent evaluator as poor as Herm is and was, it was a joke and a slap in the face to the fans and franchise.

I never did give Herm a chance, nor bought into his pompus ass shick! He was a complete Joke in NYJ, then backed in to the playoffs here. His game plans were stale, his teams in NYJ and KC never ever progressed, but regressed after the players of the former coaching staff either retired, left or whatever. Herm could never replace those guys with quality players.

On top of that Herms choices of coaches was pretty comical to say the least. I was sick of Herm before he was here, dreaded each and every game, and glad he is so long gone... Even though it will take years to take out his trash...

Yep. He was a TOTAL FOOL. More of a con man than a coach. The ONLY good thing to come out of the "Herm Era" was that he managed to rid us of Carl. We were out coached on a weekly basis and just looked pathetic and inept. I knew we would get there with him, I just didn't think it would happen so quickly. I have not set foot in ARROWHEAD since the second he was named HC. This year I am flying up for a game, just like I had done for 20 years pre Herm. FUCK HERM! GO CHIEFS!

Raised On Riots
08-26-2009, 09:56 PM
FYP

LMAO

FTW!:D

CaliforniaChief
08-26-2009, 10:28 PM
The thing I look forward to is how Haley's transformation of the Chiefs will be a reflection of our identity as a franchise. The most shameful legacy of Herm is how he transformed Arrowhead Stadium from the most feared, difficult to win place in the NFL into just another stadium that struggled to sell-out and had to resort to marketing tactics just to sell seats. I took a lot of pride in the fact that we could kick the crap out of any team at home...then within a couple of years we were losing at home to the Raiders!!!??? It was particularly galling when in the 4th quarter of a home game against the Raiders he called a timeout and then immediately challenged the previous play and lost, costing us 2 timeouts in one game.

Haley's going to make mistakes. I'm ok with that. He'll be his harshest critic, own it, learn from it, and never do it again. And his players are going to do the same. I think the fan base is going to respond to that, and Arrowhead will rock again.

Reerun_KC
08-26-2009, 10:30 PM
The thing I look forward to is how Haley's transformation of the Chiefs will be a reflection of our identity as a franchise. The most shameful legacy of Herm is how he transformed Arrowhead Stadium from the most feared, difficult to win place in the NFL into just another stadium that struggled to sell-out and had to resort to marketing tactics just to sell seats. I took a lot of pride in the fact that we could kick the crap out of any team at home...then within a couple of years we were losing at home to the Raiders!!!??? It was particularly galling when in the 4th quarter of a home game against the Raiders he called a timeout and then immediately challenged the previous play and lost, costing us 2 timeouts in one game.

Haley's going to make mistakes. I'm ok with that. He'll be his harshest critic, own it, learn from it, and never do it again. And his players are going to do the same. I think the fan base is going to respond to that, and Arrowhead will rock again.

Very well said!

Rep!

Raised On Riots
08-26-2009, 10:33 PM
The thing I look forward to is how Haley's transformation of the Chiefs will be a reflection of our identity as a franchise. The most shameful legacy of Herm is how he transformed Arrowhead Stadium from the most feared, difficult to win place in the NFL into just another stadium that struggled to sell-out and had to resort to marketing tactics just to sell seats. I took a lot of pride in the fact that we could kick the crap out of any team at home...then within a couple of years we were losing at home to the Raiders!!!??? It was particularly galling when in the 4th quarter of a home game against the Raiders he called a timeout and then immediately challenged the previous play and lost, costing us 2 timeouts in one game.

Haley's going to make mistakes. I'm ok with that. He'll be his harshest critic, own it, learn from it, and never do it again. And his players are going to do the same. I think the fan base is going to respond to that, and Arrowhead will rock again.

Fuckin'-A. Rep!

salame
08-26-2009, 10:58 PM
nice article

Raised On Riots
08-26-2009, 11:00 PM
nice article

How the hell did you end up in the red?

salame
08-26-2009, 11:03 PM
How the hell did you end up in the red?

some guy named Bugeater keeps neg repping me like 5 times a day
I think he must have a man crush

Raised On Riots
08-26-2009, 11:15 PM
some guy named Bugeater keeps neg repping me like 5 times a day
I think he must have a man crush

He hates individuality; can't stand it. Total fucking conformist. That's why I have his ass on Ffvb-filter.

Make the people who dislike you or vice-versa disappear; you'll have a much better time here.

salame
08-26-2009, 11:23 PM
whats Ffvb-filter?

Raised On Riots
08-26-2009, 11:31 PM
whats Ffvb-filter?

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/search?q=Ffvb&cat=all

Do you use Firefox?

Reerun_KC
08-26-2009, 11:33 PM
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/search?q=Ffvb&cat=all

Do you use Firefox?

No but your mom does.... ROFL


She is like a computer, always waiting for someones input...

salame
08-26-2009, 11:34 PM
you aren't supposed to laugh at your own jokes silly

Reerun_KC
08-26-2009, 11:35 PM
you aren't supposed to laugh at your own jokes silly

You have to draw pictures for ROR or he wont understand it....

Raised On Riots
08-26-2009, 11:39 PM
No but your mom does.... ROFL


She is like a computer, always waiting for someones input...

You have to draw pictures for ROR or he wont understand it....

Hey man; fuck you AND the tree monkey you tied to a wheel barrow and moved your family to Guthrie with!:D

Reerun_KC
08-26-2009, 11:40 PM
Hey man; fuck you AND the tree monkey you tied to a wheel barrow and moved your family to Guthrie with!:D

ROFL

Priceless!

salame
08-26-2009, 11:41 PM
Are there a lot of rednecks on cp?

Reerun_KC
08-26-2009, 11:41 PM
Are there a lot of rednecks on cp?

Not really...

KcFanInGA
08-27-2009, 07:42 AM
Me likey.

Count Zarth
08-27-2009, 07:59 AM
I want guys that understand what’s happening – why someone is MF’ing them

Gotta love that heathen. ROFL

Inspector
08-27-2009, 08:14 AM
Great article.

One of the first things I noticed was how much faster all of these guys are. All that extra weight had really made them slower than I realized.

Clearly Herm was just riding the gravy train and spending his time counting his money instead of trying to prepare and maintain his team. Gaining wieght throughout the season? You've got to be kidding?!?

Wow, glad he's gone. He really was even worse than many of us realized. Whew. This is very refreshing.

Chief Henry
08-27-2009, 08:15 AM
This franchise needed a serious house cleaning and thank God Clark stepped up and did the right thing.

Carl and Herm made me puke.

Frosty
08-27-2009, 08:23 AM
It's refreshing this training camp to not be reading about a constant stream of tweaked hamstrings like the last three years.

CHIEFS58
08-27-2009, 08:30 AM
if these guys listen to what haley tells them, you know theyre gonna be good. they have to learn to play football again and get technique correct. haley was always pissed at the receivers due to half-assed effort. im excited about the changes and i think in a year or two the team is going to be something to be really proud of.

bluehawkdoc
08-27-2009, 08:57 AM
As I read this article, it became clear that not only is the "attitude" change going to change the franchise's future but the players too. Vrabel's comments make it clear that he considers it SOP to be challenged daily by his coaches and teammates. To me, that's why he is still playing at a high level at his age and can contribute both physically and intellectually. I think the "Ryan Sims" type player will not occur in this system. Previous regimes seemed to create them. Makes you wonder if Sims was truly a bust or a product of his environment. Haley would have rode his fat a** to tuna town.

CoMoChief
08-27-2009, 08:57 AM
I'm not defending Herm, I think he's a moron. A retarded monkey could coach a team of vegetables better than Herm coached this team.

Having that said.....

Herm walked into a horrible situation. This team was ancient. Carl and Co. did nothing to prepare the retiring of Roaf, then followed by Shields the next season, suddenly the work horses on our offense became our weakest link. Anyone with half a brain will admit that our offense was great because of that. Priest Holmes wasn't anything really til he got to KC. Trent Green wasn't the most talented QB, granted we had TG, but other than him we had shit for WR's. Once the talent on the Oline went away, so did our offense, and Herm arrived just in time to see that happen, Carl tried to milk the offesne for one more season while Shields was still here, but that didn't work out and also didn't help when the starting QB got knocked the F' out. Surprisingly, Huard played well enough to help the team back into the playoffs with the Denver loss at home to SF. Then all hell broke loose with Herm's mastermindful game plan against Indy. The defense actually played well enough to win that game. While the offense peed their pants and we all saw one of the worst offensive performances in NFL history. That was the first major sign of what we all saw as Herm as a coach. He clearly doesn't know how to win big games. He can't take his team over the top. He wants to play close, not let the game get out of hand, wants to shut down the offense, and look clueless doing it.

Given the age of the team, Herm had no choice but to get younger, which is something DV and co. should have done a long time ago, but DV was old, they were in a "win now" mode, and probably didn't care about the state of the team when DV would retire. So Herm walked right into a giant roster turnover, the only and one major problem was that he had no clue on how to build up a young football team. What I've been hearing the last couple years is that he doesn't discipline jack shit, the practices are lazy and cut short. Everything was fine and dandy and the team got VERY complacent with losing. Herm had to go.

InChiefsHell
08-27-2009, 10:33 AM
This article gives me wood. Just sayin'...

Seriously, it makes sense that the Pats have been so good, they don't screw around, it's never personal, perform the best and you play, if not, you are gone. Nothing personal, just business. DV was ALL about personal, and Herm was all about having fun and keeping it light. That is not how you win. It IS how you have happy players, even when they are losing their asses.

I feel very confident about the future of this team...

Count Zarth
08-27-2009, 10:36 AM
This article gives me wood. Just sayin'...

Seriously, it makes sense that the Pats have been so good, they don't screw around, it's never personal, perform the best and you play, if not, you are gone. Nothing personal, just business. DV was ALL about personal, and Herm was all about having fun and keeping it light. That is not how you win. It IS how you have happy players, even when they are losing their asses.

I feel very confident about the future of this team...

This goes back to something I said earlier this offseason, when Waters was talking about how much he loved Herm.

Players don't always know what's best for them.

We forget how close they are to the situation sometimes. They don't have nearly the same perspective we do on things.

Raised On Riots
08-27-2009, 10:53 AM
Gotta love that heathen. ROFL

THROW 'EM UP!

http://www.metalinsider.net/site/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/devil-horns-201x300.jpg

Chief Faithful
08-27-2009, 11:21 AM
As I read this article, it became clear that not only is the "attitude" change going to change the franchise's future but the players too. Vrabel's comments make it clear that he considers it SOP to be challenged daily by his coaches and teammates. To me, that's why he is still playing at a high level at his age and can contribute both physically and intellectually. I think the "Ryan Sims" type player will not occur in this system. Previous regimes seemed to create them. Makes you wonder if Sims was truly a bust or a product of his environment. Haley would have rode his fat a** to tuna town.

Watching him in Tampa I would say he is more a product of his own stomach. The guy is incredibly fat and slow.

Has anyone else noticed the distinct lack of pulled hamstrings and sprangs this preseason? Is the conditioning or attitude change?

Frosty
08-27-2009, 12:10 PM
Watching him in Tampa I would say he is more a product of his own stomach. The guy is incredibly fat and slow.

Has anyone else noticed the distinct lack of pulled hamstrings and sprangs this preseason? Is the conditioning or attitude change?

See post #60.

I would definitely say it is better conditioning.

JD10367
08-27-2009, 01:08 PM
Good lord, after reading that can you imagine how bad this team would have been this year under Herm.

The 2008 Detroit Lions would've been waiting with bated breath, holding champagne bottles, as the 0-15 Chiefs were down 21-20 in the 4th quarter of the last game of the season. :eek:

MahiMike
08-27-2009, 01:10 PM
"The disjointed elitism was even apparent in the structure of the parking lot, where players were allowed to buy the best spots for their cars, rather than earn them on the field."

This one really got to me. These guys get paid millions to be athletes and don't wanna walk 100 yards to the locker room.

That was the best article I've read this year on the Chiefs.

Thank you Clark!

Chocolate Hog
08-27-2009, 01:12 PM
The Chiefs won't be much better then 2-14 this season.

HC_Chief
08-27-2009, 01:20 PM
We won't know if Haley will be a good HC or not until we see him do it, but I can tell you this: I love the guy's approach to coaching!

Easy 6
08-27-2009, 02:31 PM
Its very hard to put into words just how much i like whats taking place here, real, old skool, i'm not your buddy, Parcellsian hard-assery...get it done or call mom for a ride home.

It really brings into sharp focus just how dysfunctional this club had become...thank God Clark is as smart as i hoped he was.

milkman
08-27-2009, 06:43 PM
I'm not defending Herm, I think he's a moron. A retarded monkey could coach a team of vegetables better than Herm coached this team.

Having that said.....

Herm walked into a horrible situation. This team was ancient. Carl and Co. did nothing to prepare the retiring of Roaf, then followed by Shields the next season, suddenly the work horses on our offense became our weakest link. Anyone with half a brain will admit that our offense was great because of that. Priest Holmes wasn't anything really til he got to KC. Trent Green wasn't the most talented QB, granted we had TG, but other than him we had shit for WR's. Once the talent on the Oline went away, so did our offense, and Herm arrived just in time to see that happen, Carl tried to milk the offesne for one more season while Shields was still here, but that didn't work out and also didn't help when the starting QB got knocked the F' out. Surprisingly, Huard played well enough to help the team back into the playoffs with the Denver loss at home to SF. Then all hell broke loose with Herm's mastermindful game plan against Indy. The defense actually played well enough to win that game. While the offense peed their pants and we all saw one of the worst offensive performances in NFL history. That was the first major sign of what we all saw as Herm as a coach. He clearly doesn't know how to win big games. He can't take his team over the top. He wants to play close, not let the game get out of hand, wants to shut down the offense, and look clueless doing it.

Given the age of the team, Herm had no choice but to get younger, which is something DV and co. should have done a long time ago, but DV was old, they were in a "win now" mode, and probably didn't care about the state of the team when DV would retire. So Herm walked right into a giant roster turnover, the only and one major problem was that he had no clue on how to build up a young football team. What I've been hearing the last couple years is that he doesn't discipline jack shit, the practices are lazy and cut short. Everything was fine and dandy and the team got VERY complacent with losing. Herm had to go.

Yes, Carl is responsible for the decline of the O-Line, but Herman fucking Edwards was responsible for the total lack of discipline.

And Priest Holmes did benefit from playing behind that O-Line, but he also had talent, putting up a 1000 yard season in a system he was not even close to fitting in Baltimore when he was healthy.

smittysbar
08-27-2009, 07:22 PM
About time someone told it how it is.