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Pneuma
08-26-2009, 03:11 PM
No.1 - Kansas City Chiefs trade for Matt Cassel

A silent alarm should have sounded for the Chiefs when the New England Patriots sold off “franchise” Matt Cassel for such a cheap price. Getting good value from Bill Belichick is like getting a good deal from a greasy used-car salesman: you’re lucky if you get what you pay for.

Cassel looked shiny and nice while he was on Belichick’s lot, but so have many players. Belichick makes his squad into overachievers and then sells high, only to see his parts fail elsewhere. See: Deion Branch, David Givens and Ty Law.

The Chiefs also signed Cassel to the richest contract in franchise history before he even played a snap, which may have been premature. A simple six-month test drive wouldn’t have hurt.

He has ”bust” written all over him and his early struggles in training camp are just the early evidence that the Chiefs got a lemon.

http://www.askmen.com/top_10/sports/top-10-regrettable-nfl-offseason-decisions.html

___________________


While I don't agree with the long term signing, I don't think it deserves #1.

Bane
08-26-2009, 03:12 PM
WOW!

Brock
08-26-2009, 03:13 PM
Talk about a worst case scenario.

Demonpenz
08-26-2009, 03:13 PM
1 and 1a the chiefs don't draft sanchez

Bane
08-26-2009, 03:14 PM
1 and 1a the chiefs don't draft sanchez

Wont take long to figure this one out that's for sure.

Count Alex's Losses
08-26-2009, 03:14 PM
The Chiefs also signed Cassel to the richest contract in franchise history before he even played a snap, which may have been premature. A simple six-month test drive wouldn’t have hurt.

He has ”bust” written all over him and his early struggles in training camp are just the early evidence that the Chiefs got a lemon.

http://www.askmen.com/top_10/sports/top-10-regrettable-nfl-offseason-decisions.html


This guy is a fuckin' retard who probably hasn't watched Cassel play more than a couple games.

Deberg_1990
08-26-2009, 03:14 PM
Cassel is clearly a bust after 2 preseason games.

Reerun_KC
08-26-2009, 03:14 PM
OH boy, I truly truly hope that Mark Castle proves everyone wrong...

IF NOT, this fucking server is going to get hammered this year on Sundays...

The meltdown will be disasterly...

Buck
08-26-2009, 03:15 PM
Has anyone already decided to nickname the Chiefs OL "The Moat"????

Mecca
08-26-2009, 03:15 PM
That one isn't surprising although I find it odd they have Owens 2nd.

Count Alex's Losses
08-26-2009, 03:15 PM
Here is the douchebag who wrote this tripe:

http://hardcoresportsradio.com/members/Dave-Golokhov/default.aspx

http://www.facebook.com/profile/pic.php?uid=AAAAAQAQvl0j2Cl4W6PCee2-6ZeocgAAAAqVTNM-TBQ6s7hSa6Zooz6Y

Reerun_KC
08-26-2009, 03:15 PM
1 and 1a the chiefs don't draft sanchez

We didnt?

Well thanks for telling me, I was looking forward to watching him. Now might as well cancel my sunday ticket.

KCtotheSB
08-26-2009, 03:16 PM
Top Regrettable NFL Offseason Decision from AskWomen.com: Being a hostess for Ben Roethlisberger

Reerun_KC
08-26-2009, 03:16 PM
Here is the douchebag who wrote this tripe:

http://hardcoresportsradio.com/resized-image.ashx/__size/80x80/__key/CommunityServer.Components.Avatars/00.00.00.21.11/4TBEKJD1B3VE.jpg

I am surprised your not stalking him, trying to have sex with him...

Demonpenz
08-26-2009, 03:16 PM
there is one thing we can all agree on. askmen.com knows their shit

OnTheWarpath58
08-26-2009, 03:16 PM
No.1 - Kansas City Chiefs trade for Matt Cassel

A silent alarm should have sounded for the Chiefs when the New England Patriots sold off “franchise” Matt Cassel for such a cheap price. Getting good value from Bill Belichick is like getting a good deal from a greasy used-car salesman: you’re lucky if you get what you pay for.

Good point.


Cassel looked shiny and nice while he was on Belichick’s lot, but so have many players. Belichick makes his squad into overachievers and then sells high, only to see his parts fail elsewhere. See: Deion Branch, David Givens and Ty Law.

Another good point.


The Chiefs also signed Cassel to the richest contract in franchise history before he even played a snap, which may have been premature. A simple six-month test drive wouldn’t have hurt.

Best point of all.


He has ”bust” written all over him and his early struggles in training camp are just the early evidence that the Chiefs got a lemon.

Fucking stupid. He hasn't lit up the scoreboard, but considering the OL struggles, he's looked decent.

I've never thought he'll be a "bust", but I don't think he'll ever perform to the level of a franchise QB.

Gonzo
08-26-2009, 03:16 PM
Ty Law was old!

Branch got injured but was still fairly productive.

This fuck stick is just trying to get a Nathanesque jump on a story so he can say, "See!!! I was right!!!!"
THE DEAL IS DONE.

Cocksucker.

Mecca
08-26-2009, 03:16 PM
I actually think most of those belong on there going through that list...

Demonpenz
08-26-2009, 03:17 PM
We didnt?

Well thanks for telling me, I was looking forward to watching him. Now might as well cancel my sunday ticket.

I hope sanchez makes the chiefs look stupid and wins super bowls

KCrockaholic
08-26-2009, 03:17 PM
No.1 - Kansas City Chiefs trade for Matt Cassel

A silent alarm should have sounded for the Chiefs when the New England Patriots sold off “franchise” Matt Cassel for such a cheap price. Getting good value from Bill Belichick is like getting a good deal from a greasy used-car salesman: you’re lucky if you get what you pay for.

Cassel looked shiny and nice while he was on Belichick’s lot, but so have many players. Belichick makes his squad into overachievers and then sells high, only to see his parts fail elsewhere. See: Deion Branch, David Givens and Ty Law.

The Chiefs also signed Cassel to the richest contract in franchise history before he even played a snap, which may have been premature. A simple six-month test drive wouldn’t have hurt.

He has ”bust” written all over him and his early struggles in training camp are just the early evidence that the Chiefs got a lemon.

http://www.askmen.com/top_10/sports/top-10-regrettable-nfl-offseason-decisions.html

___________________


While I don't agree with the long term signing, I don't think it deserves #1.


ROFL BTW Ty Law had 10 interceptions his first year after the Pats cut him.

Mecca
08-26-2009, 03:18 PM
His entire point is very solid aside from the preseason one..

Law got picks but got beat a ton after leaving the Pats and Deion Branch has been a total bum.

OnTheWarpath58
08-26-2009, 03:19 PM
ROFL BTW Ty Law had 10 interceptions his first year after the Pats cut him.

And many of them were Larry Brown Super Bowl XXX-esque.

He had clearly lost a step or four at that point.

Reerun_KC
08-26-2009, 03:19 PM
I hope sanchez makes the chiefs look stupid and wins super bowls

I hope sanchez takes your true fan stick and shoves it where the sun doesnt shine...

LMAO

Mr_Tomahawk
08-26-2009, 03:20 PM
No.1 - Kansas City Chiefs trade for Matt Cassel

The Chiefs also signed Cassel to the richest contract in franchise history before he even played a snap, which may have been premature. A simple six-month test drive wouldn’t have hurt.



I think this post is premature.

CrazyPhuD
08-26-2009, 03:21 PM
Ok here's where the article is 110% wrong, he could be a huge bust and it still wouldn't be anywhere near the worst offseason decision? Why? Cassel's signing by the chiefs directly caused the bronco's implosion....

That alone is a great outcome. :D

Mecca
08-26-2009, 03:21 PM
I think this post is premature.

He's giving his views on what moves he thinks will blow up in teams faces...

If I did the list he has atleast 5 of the ones I would have put on there.

Reerun_KC
08-26-2009, 03:22 PM
Good point.




Another good point.




Best point of all.




Fucking stupid. He hasn't lit up the scoreboard, but considering the OL struggles, he's looked decent.

I've never thought he'll be a "bust", but I don't think he'll ever perform to the level of a franchise QB.

Well alot of good points, only thing that concerns me is I wish they would of test drove him for the 1 year, then signed him IF he preformed as expected..

I will support him fully, guy needs a chance, just wasnt thrilled when we took the big payday for him without seeing how he can preform without the NE type of players...

Mecca
08-26-2009, 03:23 PM
I'd probably put the Cassel move 3rd on the list..

The McDaniels and Delhomme ones are worse.

dirk digler
08-26-2009, 03:24 PM
I actually think most of those belong on there going through that list...

Yep except the suspensions by Goodell and obviously the Cassell one :harumph:

Mecca
08-26-2009, 03:25 PM
I don't think the Owens one belongs on there either, he'll do fine in Buffalo.

TFG
08-26-2009, 03:25 PM
Is it just me or are the coaches and FO people from the Pats just so unbelievably arrogant that they simply believe that, whatever is on the roster, a 3-4 and a new QB are the solution? I mean, what on Earth would convince anyone that the Chiefs needed to go 3-4? A: Patriotic arrogance. Same in Denver too. Anyone and everyone ever to stand within a few feet of Bill Belichick is just an unreal genius who knows that the way to success in the NFL is to switch to a 3-4 regardless of what talent is on the roster and then give up anything and everything for a USC backup QB, including that no-good Jay Cutler.



My Chief offseason:

FIX THE OL = 1) Eugene Monroe ... and undrafteds Darryl Harris and Edwin Williams, and likely Jamon Meredith with that Round 5er. Yeah, hindsight is... OK, I would have Drafted all of those higher... and kept the 4-3, kept Jason Babin who was showing something, and grabbed Ron Brace in Round 2 to pair with Dorsey and STOP THE RUN...


The Pioli strategy has to be questioned. The OL was the overwhelming #1 need, and what... Colin Brown in Round 5, Goff as a UFA??? Man, that just doesn't exactly impress me at all. I'd call that the #1 goof or "regrettable decision" this offseason, with Cassel a Chief behind the goof of the attempt to make Cassel the Bronco...

Mecca
08-26-2009, 03:27 PM
Well...all of the NE assistants have failed and failed miserably except for Thomas Dmitrof down in Atlanta but he actually drafted a QB with his first pick.

They're also still in a 4-3.

CosmicPal
08-26-2009, 03:27 PM
Had this been a Carl trade, I would've agreed.

However, I have faith that Pioli knows what he's doing here, since, after all, he was working with the Pats last season and should know.

KCrockaholic
08-26-2009, 03:28 PM
And many of them were Larry Brown Super Bowl XXX-esque.

He had clearly lost a step or four at that point.

True, but that still doesnt help this guys point. Hes trying to name off players who had bad careers after the Pats. Law had 10 picks. I dont care if it was Larry Brown esque, 10 turnovers is 10 turnovers. After that season he came to KC so we could help run his career to the ground. Deion Branch hasnt been as bad as he makes it out to be also. Branch is old, and a servicable 3rd option on most teams.

Huffman83
08-26-2009, 03:28 PM
When you look at the list...you're basically seeing every transaction that was made in the off season that was actually "news."

While I worry that Cassel is Scott Mitchell V2.0. I see the guy is talented and has a good agent because there's no way he's worth that much money YET! (bring KC to the AFC championship game 3 years in a row minimum...then he's worth it.) But consider someone a bust after the fact but not before the season even starts

Count Alex's Losses
08-26-2009, 03:28 PM
FIX THE OL = 1) Eugene Monroe ...

http://i32.tinypic.com/vhyzr6.gif

Mecca
08-26-2009, 03:29 PM
His plan may suck but he has a point about the unbridled arrogance of the NE assistants.

Dicky McElephant
08-26-2009, 03:33 PM
http://i32.tinypic.com/vhyzr6.gif

I'm stealing that......ROFL

Gonzo
08-26-2009, 03:33 PM
http://i32.tinypic.com/vhyzr6.gif

http://i41.tinypic.com/3168axl.jpg

OnTheWarpath58
08-26-2009, 03:34 PM
True, but that still doesnt help this guys point. Hes trying to name off players who had bad careers after the Pats. Law had 10 picks. I dont care if it was Larry Brown esque, 10 turnovers is 10 turnovers. After that season he came to KC so we could help run his career to the ground. Deion Branch hasnt been as bad as he makes it out to be also. Branch is old, and a servicable 3rd option on most teams.

If you've paid any attention to the Patriots Way, his point is extremely valid, though you'll continue to disagree.

The Pats are IMO the best in the league at getting the most out of players, and then getting rid of them the year before their skills rapidly decline.

There's even a blurb in Patriot Reign where they talk about how they "just know" when the right time is to cut guys loose.

In recent memory, Asante Samuel is the only guy they've cut loose that actually played at a similar level to his play in NE - but it's only been one year.

KCrockaholic
08-26-2009, 03:36 PM
If you've paid any attention to the Patriots Way, his point is extremely valid, though you'll continue to disagree.

The Pats are IMO the best in the league at getting the most out of players, and then getting rid of them the year before their skills rapidly decline.

There's even a blurb in Patriot Reign where they talk about how they "just know" when the right time is to cut guys loose.

In recent memory, Asante Samuel is the only guy they've cut loose that actually played at a similar level to his play in NE - but it's only been one year.

I totally agree with this, but I dont see how this makes Ty Laws 2005 season a so called "fail"??

OnTheWarpath58
08-26-2009, 03:38 PM
I totally agree with this, but I dont see how this makes Ty Laws 2005 season a so called "fail"??

Seeing as how the writer calls Law's CAREER AFTER New England a "fail", I'm not sure where you get the idea that 2005 makes up for the rest of it.

Overall, Law was well past his prime after NE, and showed it.

They got rid of him at the perfect time.

DA_T_84
08-26-2009, 03:44 PM
Has anyone already decided to nickname the Chiefs OL "The Moat"????

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=212237&page=2

Just Passin' By
08-26-2009, 03:44 PM
Terrible article, to put it kindly. Probably the #1 regrettable decision that the author's made in weeks was to post that horseshit with his name on it.

Count Alex's Losses
08-26-2009, 03:46 PM
Terrible article, to put it kindly. Probably the #1 regrettable decision that the author's made in weeks was to post that horseshit with his name on it.

It's from AskFuckingMen.com

What do you expect?

There are more insightful things written on this very forum.

OnTheWarpath58
08-26-2009, 03:46 PM
Has anyone already decided to nickname the Chiefs OL "The Moat"????

A moat protects a castle.

Our OL does not protect Cassel.

KCrockaholic
08-26-2009, 03:46 PM
Seeing as how the writer calls Law's CAREER AFTER New England a "fail", I'm not sure where you get the idea that 2005 makes up for the rest of it.

Overall, Law was well past his prime after NE, and showed it.

They got rid of him at the perfect time.

Yes but hes trying to compare this to Cassel. Cassel is what 27? Not an overaged Conerback. They didnt get rid of Cassel because his tools were warped thanks to old age. Comparing Ty Law and Cassel are stupid and thats what the writer did. Same goes for Branch they got rid of him because he was getting older. Cassel doesnt fit those categories.

Mecca
08-26-2009, 03:47 PM
Yes but hes trying to compare this to Cassel. Cassel is what 27? Not an overaged Conerback. They didnt get rid of Cassel because his tools were warped thanks to old age. Comparing Ty Law and Cassel are stupid and thats what the writer did. Same goes for Branch they got rid of him because he was getting older. Cassel doesnt fit those categories.

Give me an NE player that has succeeded after leaving there, old or young.

OnTheWarpath58
08-26-2009, 03:49 PM
Yes but hes trying to compare this to Cassel. Cassel is what 27? Not an overaged Conerback. They didnt get rid of Cassel because his tools were warped thanks to old age. Comparing Ty Law and Cassel are stupid and thats what the writer did. Same goes for Branch they got rid of him because he was getting older. Cassel doesnt fit those categories.

They got rid of him because they are fucking geniuses.

Not only do they not have to pay him $15M to be a backup, they get a 2nd round pick to go with it.

OnTheWarpath58
08-26-2009, 03:50 PM
Give me an NE player that has succeeded after leaving there, old or young.

So far, Asante Samuel is the only one I can think of that has kept his level of play.

T-post Tom
08-26-2009, 03:51 PM
Hi,

I'm a blogger. I've never played organized football. I like to post on-line entries regarding 'Wrestlemania'. I know more about football than Scott Pioli and Todd Haley. Matt Cassel sucks. And you should believe me because I'm a blogger. Did I mention that I'm Canadian?

Your Friend,

Sound & Fury

Just Passin' By
08-26-2009, 03:51 PM
Give me an NE player that has succeeded after leaving there, old or young.

How many do you really need?

Samuel is a very recent example.

unothadeal
08-26-2009, 03:52 PM
Has anyone already decided to nickname the Chiefs OL "The Moat"????

Lol. Because it's a bridge to the "Cassel" i get it

Mecca
08-26-2009, 03:52 PM
Samuel is 1 year removed from NE...

If you wanted to give a #1 for bad moves over the last 5 years in the NFL you could sum it with 1 line "the arrogance of NE assistants"

Just Passin' By
08-26-2009, 03:54 PM
Samuel is 1 year removed from NE...

If you wanted to give a #1 for bad moves over the last 5 years in the NFL you could sum it with 1 line "the arrogance of NE assistants"

Sure you could. You'd be wrong, but you could do it.

rockymtnchief
08-26-2009, 03:54 PM
I would've expected "Drafting Crabtree" to make the list.

Mecca
08-26-2009, 03:55 PM
Sure you could. You'd be wrong, but you could do it.

Really, cause the NE assistants aren't arrogant?

The only one that has succeeded is the one who didn't trade for a QB or make his team switch to 3-4 or start talking about Patriot way bullshit.

KCrockaholic
08-26-2009, 03:57 PM
Give me an NE player that has succeeded after leaving there, old or young.

To be fair Willie McGinest has played well taking into account his age. We will see how Hobbs does. Asante Samuel. Eugene Wilson also played well when he wasnt injured.

They are smart about who to keep and who to get rid of. Since Cassel is a QB they knew his value would never be higher than what it was this off-season considering Tom Brady is the starter. They did the smart thing in trading him to KC. Now, that doesnt mean he will become a bust.

T-post Tom
08-26-2009, 03:57 PM
How many do you really need?

Samuel is a very recent example.

Ty Law did quite well in 2005 with the Jets. He set a personal season best with 10 ints. He played all 16 games. He had 45 tackles with 17 assists. Damn impressive. Of course, Carl Peterson's & Jason Whitlock's endorsement for a job in KC doomed any hope of additional success after 2005. :D

KCrockaholic
08-26-2009, 04:05 PM
Ty Law did quite well in 2005 with the Jets. He set a personal season best with 10 ints. He played all 16 games. He had 45 tackles with 17 assists. Damn impressive. Of course, Carl Peterson's & Jason Whitlock's endorsement for a job in KC doomed any hope of additional success after 2005. :D

No offense, lets not get back into this again.

Rooster
08-26-2009, 04:07 PM
ROFLROFL Askmen.com has the best sports in the business. They almost make GoChiefs look legit. ROFLROFL

ChiefButthurt
08-26-2009, 04:08 PM
No.1 - Kansas City Chiefs trade for Matt Cassel

A silent alarm should have sounded for the Chiefs when the New England Patriots sold off “franchise” Matt Cassel for such a cheap price. Getting good value from Bill Belichick is like getting a good deal from a greasy used-car salesman: you’re lucky if you get what you pay for.

Cassel looked shiny and nice while he was on Belichick’s lot, but so have many players. Belichick makes his squad into overachievers and then sells high, only to see his parts fail elsewhere. See: Deion Branch, David Givens and Ty Law.

The Chiefs also signed Cassel to the richest contract in franchise history before he even played a snap, which may have been premature. A simple six-month test drive wouldn’t have hurt.

He has ”bust” written all over him and his early struggles in training camp are just the early evidence that the Chiefs got a lemon.

http://www.askmen.com/top_10/sports/top-10-regrettable-nfl-offseason-decisions.html

___________________


While I don't agree with the long term signing, I don't think it deserves #1.

You should be neg repped for posting this shit from a joke writer. :evil:

Just Passin' By
08-26-2009, 04:09 PM
Really, cause the NE assistants aren't arrogant?

The only one that has succeeded is the one who didn't trade for a QB or make his team switch to 3-4 or start talking about Patriot way bullshit.

Crennel's struggles weren't because he was arrogant.
Weis isn't in the NFL, but won early when he had good players.
McDaniels' team hasn't even played a real game yet.

Mecca
08-26-2009, 04:10 PM
If you think Notre Dame has bad players I beg you to go look at their recruiting classes.

KCrockaholic
08-26-2009, 04:13 PM
If you think Notre Dame has bad players I beg you to go look at their recruiting classes.

Lou Holtz already has his head up Jimmy Clausens anus.

Just Passin' By
08-26-2009, 04:13 PM
If you think Notre Dame has bad players I beg you to go look at their recruiting classes.

Ty's last recruiting classes were absolute horseshit.

KCrockaholic
08-26-2009, 04:16 PM
Ty's last recruiting classes were absolute horseshit.

This years class is lookin pretty nice for ND.

Meccas got you beat on the NE assistant arguement.

WildTurkey
08-26-2009, 04:16 PM
Crennel's struggles weren't because he was arrogant.
Weis isn't in the NFL, but won early when he had good players.
McDaniels' team hasn't even played a real game yet.

and all of those were coaches, so far the one front office guy who has moved on has done pretty well for himself, and we hired his former boss, so I fail to see how Crennel, Mangina and McKid sucking as coaches (McKid..TBD) has anything to do with Pioli....

DaWolf
08-26-2009, 04:38 PM
Really, cause the NE assistants aren't arrogant?

The only one that has succeeded is the one who didn't trade for a QB or make his team switch to 3-4 or start talking about Patriot way bullshit.

Come on, Dimitrioff has talked about the "Patriot Way" a lot if you actually listen to him talking. For example:

And so I asked him this morning: What do you take from New England coach Bill Belichick and VP of player personnel Scott Pioli into your new job?

"Bill and Scott had this philosophy, and you've heard it,'' said Dimitroff, who seems to delight in walking the halls here very far under the radar. " 'Do your job.' It falls in line with their team concept, and I think it works very well as an organizational philosophy. If everybody does what they do to the best of their ability without worrying about anybody else, we're going to get the job done collectively.

"The second thing I take from New England is system-specific scouting. You grade players for your own team, not for the how others in the league might see them. It doesn't matter if we have a player graded as a first-rounder and some other team has him in the sixth. You have to have the courage of your convictions and know you might have different needs with different kinds of players than other teams.

"The thing about Bill and Scott that I admired about their relationship is how honest they could be in their discussions about players. If they were at loggerheads on a player, they'd move on to another player, because they trusted each other's opinion so much. And I appreciated how they'd use different ways to build their team. Just when you think you've got them figured out -- you know, the 'Patriot Way' -- they'd pull something you wouldn't expect.''

"Like the Randy Moss deal?'' I asked.

"Yeah,'' he said. "Like building their team whatever way it took to win. Being flexible. Being adaptable. There are some guys in the business who say, 'These are my draft picks, and we're staying right where we are and we're making the picks.' You might think that breeds confidence in the organization. But what I think it does is breed hesitation.''

Hesitation to change when change is the right thing, he meant.

You take that quote and match it up with anything Pioli has said and it's the same thing.

Second, as far as the QB, you can't compare Matt Ryan to Sanchez yet. Ryan was a senior starter and they had a lot more info on him at the time. Plus, the franchise had just been rocked by the Vick thing and they needed a new face of the franchise, and you'd be fooling yourself if you didn't think that Arthur Blank wasn't pushing them to pick the QB, especially after listening to Blank in the offseason...

Pitt Gorilla
08-26-2009, 04:57 PM
The Cassel deal was a steal. He will be very good.

Ultra Peanut
08-26-2009, 05:13 PM
I'm sorry, but there is no fucking way that trading for and overpaying a decent QB is dumber than offending a franchise QB with a full decade ahead of him to the point that you have to trade him and FAILING to acquire aforementioned decent QB in the process.

Tuckdaddy
08-26-2009, 05:15 PM
So over night Scott has gone from the most respected NFL man to a stupid NFL front man because Matt has "so called" looked bad in practice? What a joke.

Count Alex's Losses
08-26-2009, 05:18 PM
So over night Scott has gone from the most respected NFL man to a stupid NFL front man because Matt has "so called" looked bad in practice? What a joke.

DAVE GOLOKHOV SUCKS

SenselessChiefsFan
08-26-2009, 05:28 PM
Wow.... two months ago, it was one of the 'best' moves.

Now, this guy thinks it's one of the worst.

Sorry, but the trade for Cassel was a good move.

The contract he got is barely above average for a starting QB. So, the contract wasn't a bad move.

The Chiefs were on the hook for 14 million anyways.

If Cassel had had a good year, the Chiefs would have to pay much more than that..... or franchise him again, which would have given him the same amount over two years that is currently guaranteed.

The Jared Allen situation developed because the Chiefs lacked the forethought to lock him up before his contract was up.

Just because the old regime thought it was great to let the players get to a contract year and let negotiations hit an impasse before actually trying to work a deal, doesn't mean that is what the smart teams do.

Now, the Chiefs are way under the cap. Pioli knows Cassel. The other person who knows him is McDaniels.... who also tried to get him.

The Pats didn't want to pay the $14 million. The Chiefs offered less than what the Broncos and Lions were going to offer, but the Chiefs jumped quickly and the Pats wanted the deal done.

This may be a stupid move down the line, but very few could look at this objectively and call it one of the top ten worst moves in the NFL offseason.

DBOSHO
08-26-2009, 05:28 PM
Apparently they dont follow the Donks that well...

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-26-2009, 05:34 PM
I'm sorry, but there is no ****ing way that trading for and overpaying a decent QB is dumber than offending a franchise QB with a full decade ahead of him to the point that you have to trade him and FAILING to acquire aforementioned decent QB in the process.

Kyle Orton is a FRANCHISE QB and that was the greatest move in league history...."KnowHomer2724"

DBOSHO
08-26-2009, 05:35 PM
Kyle Orton is a FRANCHISE QB and that was the greatest move in league history...."KnowHomer2724"

no. how about sports HISTORY?

oaklandhater
08-26-2009, 05:39 PM
The funny thing about this thread is that in 2 year's if cassle bust Gochiefs and sensiblechiefsfan
wont ever come back in here or post on the subject at all spineless homers.....

Swanman
08-26-2009, 05:40 PM
Here is the douchebag who wrote this tripe:

http://hardcoresportsradio.com/members/Dave-Golokhov/default.aspx

http://www.facebook.com/profile/pic.php?uid=AAAAAQAQvl0j2Cl4W6PCee2-6ZeocgAAAAqVTNM-TBQ6s7hSa6Zooz6Y

Wow, I don't think I've ever seen a more punchable face.

Chocolate Hog
08-26-2009, 05:41 PM
The dude has "bust" written all over his face.

oaklandhater
08-26-2009, 05:44 PM
The reason Cassle is number 1 on that list is becuase if he fail's Scott Pioli wold literally have set the chiefs franchise back 5-10 years.

DBOSHO
08-26-2009, 05:51 PM
The reason Cassle is number 1 on that list is becuase if he fail's Scott Pioli wold literally have set the chiefs franchise back 5-10 years.

imo, i disagree with that. if cassel is terrible, we have 2 capable backups who have started before and have experience and are young.

and you have to consider we will probably pick in the top 10 again and there are some pretty good qbs in the draft. bradford, mccoy, snead...and i cant think of anyone who usually picks that low that needs a qb.

the raiders have fatmarcus. davis isnt smart enough to go with another qb if he fails. the lions just got stafford. jets have sanchez. maybe the rams, but i think they have other positons of need to fill.

if cassel does fail and we get a qb that would only be a 2-3 year setback imo. but i believe that cassel is the man and we will go oline or wr next yr

TFG
08-26-2009, 05:53 PM
The reason Cassle is number 1 on that list is becuase if he fail's Scott Pioli wold literally have set the chiefs franchise back 5-10 years.


What if the real truth is that Cassell "fails" because the OL cannot protect him???

Where does the blame go there?

To Pioli, who should have realized his new team lacked jack @@@@ at OL and should have DONE SOMETHING about that, more than a fifth on Colin Brown, a small UFA contract to ancient Goff, and lucking out with tryout player Darryl Harris.

aturnis
08-26-2009, 05:56 PM
No he wouldn't. Three tops. Probably not even. Pioli set up Cassel's contract and front loaded the hell out of it. The first three years he makes bank, but it's best either way you slice it.

If he kicks ass, you still have him locked up on the cheap for another three years making more room to sign "impact players" to make a run. If he fails, you're really only hurt for three years before you can afford to take the cap hit.

Though, if we still have major cap space, and Cassel doesn't impress in his first two years, the Chiefs could draft a guy in the 2011 draft and if that guy is good enough to start as a rookie, there is really no reason he couldn't. We'd just being paying a lot for a backup for one year. Hell, even if, his contract would be small enough to keep as a backup, or trade for a pick.

Easily one of the best moves of the offseason. Cutler for Orton is FAR AND AWAY the worst.

veist
08-26-2009, 06:10 PM
They got rid of him because they are ****ing geniuses.

Not only do they not have to pay him $15M to be a backup, they get a 2nd round pick to go with it.

More like they were very pragmatic, its simply the only option unless you think Brady isn't going to be Brady anymore. They are staring down some serious free agent issues going forward right now, they can't afford to be paying their backup QB $15M when they have Wilfork, Seymour and Mankins they have to think about extending to sizable contracts. How would that fly in negotiations if they aren't offering them top dollar?

vailpass
08-26-2009, 06:39 PM
I am surprised your not stalking him, trying to have sex with him...

ROFL

SenselessChiefsFan
08-26-2009, 06:50 PM
The funny thing about this thread is that in 2 year's if cassle bust Gochiefs and sensiblechiefsfan
wont ever come back in here or post on the subject at all spineless homers.....

Hey, I may be wrong, but I own up to what I make a mistake on.

The reality is that Pioli knows Cassel as well as anyone. McDaniels also knows Cassel.... and McDaniels sabotaged his own QB situation in an effort to get him.

Oh, and if you watched him in the Minnesota game, you saw what the Chiefs saw. Mobility and smart decisions.

Time will tell. I will own up to it regardless of how it turns out.

Coach
08-26-2009, 06:54 PM
I probably wouldn't want to put too much stock from a goon that writes his so-called expert analysis from a (sounds of it) gay porn website.

I mean, what the fuck is a "AskMen.com" anyways?

Lame.

Valiant
08-26-2009, 06:54 PM
The reason Cassle is number 1 on that list is becuase if he fail's Scott Pioli wold literally have set the chiefs franchise back 5-10 years.

I don't know about that.. 1-3 years at most..

The only bad part of the Cassle ordeal is giving him the money so early.. We should have waited until half way into the regular season.. Trading a 2nd, I am fine with.. Though I would have rather had one of the two first QB's selected this past draft..

And it is funny that Cassel is ahead of:

Winslow being traded for a 2nd and 5th plus new contract.,,
Delhomme being given the contract at his age..
Stallworth, sorry but the legal system failed on the punishment..
Cutler ordeal in Denver and soon to be Marshall deal..

Seems to me the guy just set up the points on a dart board and picked rank from there..

Just Passin' By
08-26-2009, 06:58 PM
The reason Cassle is number 1 on that list is becuase if he fail's Scott Pioli wold literally have set the chiefs franchise back 5-10 years.

It's a 6 year deal with guarantees that make the first 3 years the tough years to eat. This team could draft a QB following next season if they felt the need to, and they'd be able to work around the contract issues, assuming the new CBA is similar to the one currently in place.

Valiant
08-26-2009, 07:01 PM
They got rid of him because they are ****ing geniuses.

Not only do they not have to pay him $15M to be a backup, they get a 2nd round pick to go with it.

They are geniuses to sign him to the tender, period.. If not he was a UFA I believe and they would have gotten nothing.. They never would have paid him the money to be backup..

We are not talking about them trading a longtime starter like Law or Branch.. They had a FA that a lot of teams wanted in a spot they could afford to part with..


Now it comes time if he can improve without throwing to Moss and Welker and be a top 15 QB... If not then it was foolish to give Cassel the contract, not that they traded a 2nd for him..

Coach
08-26-2009, 07:11 PM
Let's just remind ourselves that Cassel should be given a benefit of the doubt for his first year. Remember, Trent struggled horribly during his first year, but he did show marked improvement from his first year in Kansas City.

OnTheWarpath58
08-26-2009, 07:36 PM
What if the real truth is that Cassell "fails" because the OL cannot protect him???

Sorry, but that's not an excuse.

Ben Roethlisberger won a fucking Super Bowl behind a TERRIBLE offensive line last year.

And Cassel himself was successful last year getting sacked more than any other QB in the league.

DeezNutz
08-26-2009, 07:38 PM
I don't know about that.. 1-3 years at most..

The only bad part of the Cassle ordeal is giving him the money so early.. We should have waited until half way into the regular season.. Trading a 2nd, I am fine with.. Though I would have rather had one of the two first QB's selected this past draft..

And it is funny that Cassel is ahead of:

Winslow being traded for a 2nd and 5th plus new contract.,,
Delhomme being given the contract at his age..
Stallworth, sorry but the legal system failed on the punishment..
Cutler ordeal in Denver and soon to be Marshall deal..

Seems to me the guy just set up the points on a dart board and picked rank from there..

No way, dude.

SD is still battling back from Leaf...
IND from George...
KC from Blackledge...

DTLB58
08-26-2009, 08:14 PM
I probably wouldn't want to put too much stock from a goon that writes his so-called expert analysis from a (sounds of it) gay porn website.

I mean, what the **** is a "AskMen.com" anyways?

Lame.

For some reason I read this in Jim Rome's voice...Made it even more freaking hilarious. LMAO

Mecca
08-26-2009, 08:17 PM
imo, i disagree with that. if cassel is terrible, we have 2 capable backups who have started before and have experience and are young.

and you have to consider we will probably pick in the top 10 again and there are some pretty good qbs in the draft. bradford, mccoy, snead...and i cant think of anyone who usually picks that low that needs a qb.

the raiders have fatmarcus. davis isnt smart enough to go with another qb if he fails. the lions just got stafford. jets have sanchez. maybe the rams, but i think they have other positons of need to fill.

if cassel does fail and we get a qb that would only be a 2-3 year setback imo. but i believe that cassel is the man and we will go oline or wr next yr

I disagree with this...those 2 backups are not capable of starting on a winning team.

I also really don't like that QB class a bunch of spread monkeys.

chiefzilla1501
08-26-2009, 08:25 PM
Sorry, but that's not an excuse.

Ben Roethlisberger won a ****ing Super Bowl behind a TERRIBLE offensive line last year.

And Cassel himself was successful last year getting sacked more than any other QB in the league.

Are you really downgrading Cassel because he's not Big Ben? How many players are?

Big Ben survived a horrible offensive line because he's enormous and impossible to bring down. He's one of very few starting QBs that can do that.

An offensive line is a very valid excuse for a QB to not perform well. Over time, the good QBs can learn to develop a quick release like Brady and Brees, but again, you're talking about the cream of the crop. The vast majority of QBs in the NFL are dependent on their offensive line to give at least mediocre protection.

Mecca
08-26-2009, 08:27 PM
I think sometimes people got use to watching Green look good due to the line so now unless a QB has that it's the lines fault he's not productive.

chiefzilla1501
08-26-2009, 08:32 PM
I think sometimes people got use to watching Green look good due to the line so now unless a QB has that it's the lines fault he's not productive.

A few things....
I think Cassel's pass protection problems highlight how good certain QBs like Brady are because of how quickly they can spot coverages and get rid of the ball. So while you can blame Cassel for bringing the line down, it's too much to expect him to be as good as Brady from the get-go.

Secondly, there's a minimum threshold at least for how good the offensive line needs to be to give the QB a fighting chance. Cassel's was borderline--I think he certainly needs to work on getting rid of the ball faster, but that will come with experience making quicker reads. But I also saw lots of moments last year where the pass rush collapsed on him a lot faster than it should have. Hard to make plays as a QB when the o-line doesn't give you some kind of pocket to work wtih.

You don't have to have an o-line as beyond dominant as KC's. But you do need to have one that can at least hold a pocket the majority of snaps.

Mecca
08-26-2009, 08:34 PM
Peyton Mannings line is full of a bunch of guys most fans have never heard of....think about that.

OnTheWarpath58
08-26-2009, 08:36 PM
Are you really downgrading Cassel because he's not Big Ben? How many players are?

Big Ben survived a horrible offensive line because he's enormous and impossible to bring down. He's one of very few starting QBs that can do that.

An offensive line is a very valid excuse for a QB to not perform well. Over time, the good QBs can learn to develop a quick release like Brady and Brees, but again, you're talking about the cream of the crop. The vast majority of QBs in the NFL are dependent on their offensive line to give at least mediocre protection.

I just complemented Cassel in that post.

Reading is fundamental.

But he's done it before, you can't have it both ways and credit him for being successful in NE then using it as a crutch in KC.

Chief Faithful
08-26-2009, 08:37 PM
Wow.... two months ago, it was one of the 'best' moves.

Now, this guy thinks it's one of the worst.

Sorry, but the trade for Cassel was a good move.

The contract he got is barely above average for a starting QB. So, the contract wasn't a bad move.

The Chiefs were on the hook for 14 million anyways.

If Cassel had had a good year, the Chiefs would have to pay much more than that..... or franchise him again, which would have given him the same amount over two years that is currently guaranteed.

The Jared Allen situation developed because the Chiefs lacked the forethought to lock him up before his contract was up.

Just because the old regime thought it was great to let the players get to a contract year and let negotiations hit an impasse before actually trying to work a deal, doesn't mean that is what the smart teams do.

Now, the Chiefs are way under the cap. Pioli knows Cassel. The other person who knows him is McDaniels.... who also tried to get him.

The Pats didn't want to pay the $14 million. The Chiefs offered less than what the Broncos and Lions were going to offer, but the Chiefs jumped quickly and the Pats wanted the deal done.

This may be a stupid move down the line, but very few could look at this objectively and call it one of the top ten worst moves in the NFL offseason.

:clap:

The team is well under the cap and have what they believe is a franchise QB locked up. In order for this jokers comments to make any sense is if Pioli is an absolute fool, which he has already proved is not the case.

donkhater
08-26-2009, 08:38 PM
Sorry, but that's not an excuse.

Ben Roethlisberger won a ****ing Super Bowl behind a TERRIBLE offensive line last year.

And Cassel himself was successful last year getting sacked more than any other QB in the league.

The STEELERS won a super bowl with a terrific defense as well. Put last season's KC defense with the great big ben, and they don't make the playoffs.

chiefzilla1501
08-26-2009, 08:40 PM
I just complemented Cassel in that post.

Reading is fundamental.

But he's done it before, you can't have it both ways and credit him for being successful in NE then using it as a crutch in KC.

I can because the offensive line he's going to be dealt in KC is a far shot worse than the Pats' o-line. And I've railed on Pioli for treating it like such a low priority.

It pisses me off that the line was ignored. I can only hope that Cassel can find a way to do well in spite of them.

Mecca
08-26-2009, 08:42 PM
Considering this schedule...Cassel is going to get destroyed numerous times, I hope he's praying for no injuries.

OnTheWarpath58
08-26-2009, 08:42 PM
Exactly as I called it just after the trade.

The excuses have already started.

Everyone is getting them ready early, that way when we go 3-13 all the blame is deflected away from the supposed franchise QB.

Mecca
08-26-2009, 08:43 PM
Exactly as I called it just after the trade.

The excuses have already started.

Everyone is getting them ready early, that way when we go 3-13 all the blame is deflected away from the supposed franchise QB.

All of those excuses were set for Croyle too...people want so badly to believe that the guy is the answer it's never his fault.

"The line sucks" "the receivers aren't good enough" etc etc etc

HolmeZz
08-26-2009, 08:44 PM
Cassel looked shiny and nice while he was on Belichick’s lot, but so have many players. Belichick makes his squad into overachievers and then sells high, only to see his parts fail elsewhere. See: Deion Branch, David Givens and Ty Law.

What exactly were Ty Law and David Givens 'sold high' for again?

Deion Branch overachieved? He was a 2nd round pick who's never had 1,000 yards receiving and never more than 5 touchdowns in a season. He hasn't suffered from much of a drop off in production since going to Seattle, it's been more a case of not being able to stay on the field.

OnTheWarpath58
08-26-2009, 08:45 PM
All of those excuses were set for Croyle too...people want so badly to believe that the guy is the answer it's never his fault.

"The line sucks" "the receivers aren't good enough" etc etc etc

I like how all these excuses were presented as a reason to not draft a QB, and get a veteran guy.

Now the vet is here, and all the same excuses are still in play.

veist
08-26-2009, 08:45 PM
Sorry, but that's not an excuse.

Ben Roethlisberger won a ****ing Super Bowl behind a TERRIBLE offensive line last year.

And Cassel himself was successful last year getting sacked more than any other QB in the league.

And lets not forgot that the Cards line was not good either, heh. Didn't seem to keep Warner from lighting some D's up last year.

Mecca
08-26-2009, 08:46 PM
I like how all these excuses were presented as a reason to not draft a QB, and get a veteran guy.

Now the vet is here, and all the same excuses are still in play.

And they'll be in play for a long time, we're talking about a fan base that actually tried to justify that Brodie Croyle and Matt Ryan were similar prospects.

chiefzilla1501
08-26-2009, 08:52 PM
I like how all these excuses were presented as a reason to not draft a QB, and get a veteran guy.

Now the vet is here, and all the same excuses are still in play.

No, it just says that trying to build your entire offense around one player that isn't named Peyton Manning or Tom Brady is just plain nuts.

Cassel is a work-in-progress. And who knows if he ever reaches any potential. I'm just astounded that the Chiefs would bring in a guy like Cassel and not surround him with the tools to learn how to run an offense the right way. It enfuriates me, actually. It's one thing if the Chiefs gave him limited talent to work with. But they stripped him of their top "receiver" and they sat idly by as an offensive line they knew was horrendous didn't improve a bit.

The excuses won't be just from the fans. Pioli bought Cassel two years because if he's not successful in year 1, Pioli can blame it on lack of support players, even though he should have known that before we entered the 2009 season.

boogblaster
08-26-2009, 08:53 PM
We needed a QB .. we got a 1 year proven one .. true he played on a very good team, but he still played well .. was it a bad move, time will tell .. still it wasn't the no.1 worst decision of the offseason ....

OnTheWarpath58
08-26-2009, 08:54 PM
No, it just says that trying to build your entire offense around one player that isn't named Peyton Manning or Tom Brady is just plain nuts.

Cassel is a work-in-progress. And who knows if he ever reaches any potential. I'm just astounded that the Chiefs would bring in a guy like Cassel and not surround him with the tools to learn how to run an offense the right way. It enfuriates me, actually. It's one thing if the Chiefs gave him limited talent to work with. But they stripped him of their top "receiver" and they sat idly by as an offensive line they knew was horrendous didn't improve a bit.

The excuses won't be just from the fans. Pioli bought Cassel two years because if he's not successful in year 1, Pioli can blame it on lack of support players, even though he should have known that before we entered the 2009 season.

Look out, folks. 'Zilla is furious.

LMAO

Ignored the offense, setting Cassel up for failure, and trading Tyler Thigpen.

OH NOES!!!111!!!!!111!!one!!111eleventy!1

Mecca
08-26-2009, 08:55 PM
We needed a QB .. we got a 1 year proven one .. true he played on a very good team, but he still played well .. was it a bad move, time will tell .. still it wasn't the no.1 worst decision of the offseason ....

What's #1?

Bwana
08-26-2009, 08:55 PM
Here is the douchebag who wrote this tripe:

http://hardcoresportsradio.com/members/Dave-Golokhov/default.aspx

http://www.facebook.com/profile/pic.php?uid=AAAAAQAQvl0j2Cl4W6PCee2-6ZeocgAAAAqVTNM-TBQ6s7hSa6Zooz6Y

The dude looks like a candy nippled flit boy. The kind of gem that would ring your doorbell and when you answered the door, would start jerking off on your mailbox. I wouldn't put a hell of a lot of stock in what this strokestick writes, but that's just me.

Mecca
08-26-2009, 08:55 PM
Look out, folks. 'Zilla is furious.

LMAO

Ignored the offense, setting Cassel up for failure, and trading Tyler Thigpen.

OH NOES!!!111!!!!!111!!one!!111eleventy!1

HaHa, well I wouldn't have approached things the way the Chiefs did either, I'll say that much.

OnTheWarpath58
08-26-2009, 08:56 PM
What's #1?

Gotta be Denver trading away a franchise QB for a guy that only started out of necessity last year.

Mecca
08-26-2009, 08:57 PM
Gotta be Denver trading away a franchise QB for a guy that only started out of necessity last year.

That one is pretty bad...Delhomme is too but Cassel is right up there if you think he won't pan out.

DeezNutz
08-26-2009, 09:00 PM
Gotta be Denver trading away a franchise QB for a guy that only started out of necessity last year.

That's the type of move that would push me as close as possible to turning in my fan card until the current regime left town.

I would be dumbstruck.

Ultra Peanut
08-26-2009, 09:00 PM
Giving bank to Delhomme was dumb. Trading for Cassel when you're going to end up with either Sanchez or Stafford was unnecessary and stupidly "safe" at the same time.

The Cutler-McDaniels situation is a clusterfuck of LEGENDARY proportions.

LOCOChief
08-26-2009, 09:02 PM
Let's see, named NFL exec of the year for consecutive years vs. ?

I'm with Pioli, he see's something that some here must be unable to.

Mecca
08-26-2009, 09:03 PM
Let's see, named NFL exec of the year for consecutive years vs. ?

I'm with Pioli, he see's something that some here must be unable to.

No matter what awards he's won he's fully capable of being wrong while some dude on his couch could be correct about it, that's the wonderful thing about this.

DeezNutz
08-26-2009, 09:05 PM
No matter what awards he's won he's fully capable of being wrong while some dude on his couch could be correct about it, that's the wonderful thing about this.

Welcome to the Planet, Herm.

Protect the shield.

LOCOChief
08-26-2009, 09:06 PM
No matter what awards he's won he's fully capable of being wrong while some dude on his couch could be correct about it, that's the wonderful thing about this.


Yeah but where's the odds?

Mecca
08-26-2009, 09:06 PM
Welcome to the Planet, Herm.

Protect the shield.

If I was Herm the Chiefs would have never started Brodie Croyle.

Mecca
08-26-2009, 09:06 PM
Yeah but where's the odds?

50/50

cdcox
08-26-2009, 09:08 PM
Has anyone already decided to nickname the Chiefs OL "The Moat"????

Yes and McIntosh is the drawbridge.

boogblaster
08-26-2009, 09:09 PM
Mecca I know your point .. but Dunvger made the stupid move of the offseason I believe ...

OnTheWarpath58
08-26-2009, 09:10 PM
Yes and McIntosh is the drawbridge.

Respectfully disagree.

It's Goff, and the bridge is incapable of being raised.

LOCOChief
08-26-2009, 09:14 PM
50/50

Again, I think I see the same potential in Cassel that you see in Sanchez and as apposed to the "safe decision" as some say I think Pioli pulled the trigger on Cassel because he feels he has the most upside. We'll see 50/50

cdcox
08-26-2009, 09:17 PM
Respectfully disagree.

It's Goff, and the bridge is incapable of being raised.

Our draw bridge is very wide (cough) Niswanger (ciught).

Jethopper
08-26-2009, 09:24 PM
reading this thread was regrettable.

58-4ever
08-26-2009, 09:27 PM
sounds like someone trying to sound outlandish. Apparently it's the new tactic to get noticed. I'm sure he's done TONS of research. The problem with this kind of journalism is that there are no follow up discussions. If Cassel throws 25 TDs and 10 INTs, this guy won't face any criticism, because no one will remember.

58-4ever
08-26-2009, 09:28 PM
BTW, have people's signatures been getting messed with randomly?

Bwana
08-26-2009, 09:39 PM
BTW, have people's signatures been getting messed with randomly?

Hmm? I would email DaFace chop chop and ask him WTF is going on! :evil:

Coach
08-26-2009, 09:56 PM
Hmm? I would email DaFace chop chop and ask him WTF is going on! :evil:

Well, this is what yours said:

"I'd have to say that my favorite uncle was Uncle Caveman. We called him Uncle Caveman because he lived in a cave and occasionally he'd eat one of us. Later, we found out he was a bear."

Bwana
08-26-2009, 09:59 PM
Well, this is what yours said:

"I'd have to say that my favorite uncle was Uncle Caveman. We called him Uncle Caveman because he lived in a cave and occasionally he'd eat one of us. Later, we found out he was a bear."

That would be correct. A few lines by Jack Handy.

Casselvania
08-26-2009, 10:50 PM
Ok here's where the article is 110% wrong, he could be a huge bust and it still wouldn't be anywhere near the worst offseason decision? Why? Cassel's signing by the chiefs directly caused the bronco's implosion....

That alone is a great outcome. :D

LMAO Agreed 100%

milkman
08-26-2009, 11:21 PM
LMAO Agreed 100%

I knew a user name like this would inevitably pop up.

salame
08-27-2009, 12:06 AM
what a shit article

DaneMcCloud
08-27-2009, 12:59 AM
Let's see, named NFL exec of the year for consecutive years vs. ?

I'm with Pioli, he see's something that some here must be unable to.

Colin Brown, 5th round

Donald Washington, 4th round (when Leggett, Carr & Flowers are on the roster).

I'm not with Pioli until he proves he knows something we don't.

DBOSHO
08-27-2009, 01:02 AM
Colin Brown, 5th round

Donald Washington, 4th round (when Leggett, Carr & Flowers are on the roster).

I'm not with Pioli until he proves he knows something we don't.

i will agree with you there. the washington pick left me confused and angry.

SenselessChiefsFan
08-27-2009, 06:45 AM
The reason Cassle is number 1 on that list is becuase if he fail's Scott Pioli wold literally have set the chiefs franchise back 5-10 years.

Perhaps if this was still CP.... but Pioli is willing to accept mistakes and move on.

It's not like the Chiefs struggled to get this contract under the cap. It's not like the Chiefs can't cut him and take the cap hit after one year. It's not like there won't be QB's in every draft that will have 'potential'.

Their first move was getting a QB..... a somewhat proven QB that the GM knows well.

Not the worst move. Not even close....

JASONSAUTO
08-27-2009, 08:08 AM
Sorry, but that's not an excuse.

Ben Roethlisberger won a fucking Super Bowl behind a TERRIBLE offensive line last year.

And Cassel himself was successful last year getting sacked more than any other QB in the league.

wonder what the steerlers would have done last year had they had a top 5 defense

JASONSAUTO
08-27-2009, 08:09 AM
Exactly as I called it just after the trade.

The excuses have already started.

Everyone is getting them ready early, that way when we go 3-13 all the blame is deflected away from the supposed franchise QB.

funny how you INSIST on ignoring the fact that football is a TEAM SPORT

TFG
08-27-2009, 08:58 AM
Sorry, but that's not an excuse.

Ben Roethlisberger won a ****ing Super Bowl behind a TERRIBLE offensive line last year.

And Cassel himself was successful last year getting sacked more than any other QB in the league.



Ben was "successful" solely because Ben was able to escape DL hits, hands, and arms in the pocket. The Cards should have had 12 sacks, but 6 or so would be "sacks" Ben got away and made big plays. The Steelers won despite their OL because they had a QB who could turn what would be a sack for 90% of NFL QBs into a big play. Cassel cannot do that. If you want to define the Pats season last year as a "success," be my guest. The only thing "successful" about Cassel for the Pats was that they were able to snake away a high Second for him from yet another really dumb franchise obsessed with acquiring anyone and everyone who ever stood next to Belichick. The current Chief obsession with becoming "Pats Light" should result in yet another top 10 Draft pick in April...

HC_Chief
08-27-2009, 09:01 AM
Ben was "successful" solely because Ben was able to escape DL hits, hands, and arms in the pocket. The Cards should have had 12 sacks, but 6 or so would be "sacks" Ben got away and made big plays. The Steelers won despite their OL because they had a QB who could turn what would be a sack for 90% of NFL QBs into a big play.

Doesn't hurt that Roethlisberger is as big as many DEs. He's not exactly easy to tackle.

TFG
08-27-2009, 09:21 AM
Doesn't hurt that Roethlisberger is as big as many DEs. He's not exactly easy to tackle.


Nor did it hurt to have the NFL's #1 defense... and a supporting cast on offense of Hines, Turdio, Heath Miller etc...

CHIEFS58
08-27-2009, 09:33 AM
trading cassel to us alleviated concerns the pats had about a "qb controversy", squashing it before it started. i know that sounds ridiculous, but the media would have taken it and run with it. belichick is a shrewd football man, and you have to respect that. he knew.

Shag
08-27-2009, 09:41 AM
Sorry, but that's not an excuse.

Ben Roethlisberger won a ****ing Super Bowl behind a TERRIBLE offensive line last year.

And Cassel himself was successful last year getting sacked more than any other QB in the league.

Roethlisberger didn't exactly tear it up behind that line. His 2008 stat line:

Player Team Pos Comp Att Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD Int 1st 1st% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck Rate
Ben Roethlisberger PIT QB 281 469 59.9 29.3 3,301 7.0 206.3 17 15 162 34.5 65T 35 7 46 80.1


Rankings:
Completion % - 21st
Yards - 14th
TDs - 15th
Interceptions - 4th (most)
Sacks - 2nd (most)
QB Rating - 24th


How would you feel about that stat line from Cassel this year?

Coach
08-27-2009, 09:46 AM
That one is pretty bad...Delhomme is too but Cassel is right up there if you think he won't pan out.

The problem I have with this is that Orton HAS already shown us that he is a terrible QB. Delhomme HAS already shown us as well.

I'd rather take Cassel over Orton or Delhomme one way or another. Those two has alot of risks and little reward.

Cassel, on the other hand, do have alot of risks, but he also has a high reward.

beach tribe
08-27-2009, 10:33 AM
Ben was "successful" solely because Ben was able to escape DL hits, hands, and arms in the pocket. The Cards should have had 12 sacks, but 6 or so would be "sacks" Ben got away and made big plays. The Steelers won despite their OL because they had a QB who could turn what would be a sack for 90% of NFL QBs into a big play. Cassel cannot do that. If you want to define the Pats season last year as a "success," be my guest. The only thing "successful" about Cassel for the Pats was that they were able to snake away a high Second for him from yet another really dumb franchise obsessed with acquiring anyone and everyone who ever stood next to Belichick. The current Chief obsession with becoming "Pats Light" should result in yet another top 10 Draft pick in April...

Cassel did exactly what you are talking about in this past PS game a against Minny. Hell it should have been a sack just about every time he dropped back to pass, but he escaped, and made some nice plays. Could you please stop
declaring him a huge mistake until he has had at least 8 games under center for us. Don't be as dumb as the guy writing this POS article.

TFG
08-27-2009, 10:54 AM
Preseason game or Super Bowl = no difference ...)

Put Cassel in as the Steelers QB in the Super Bowl and the Cards sack him a dozen times and win easily.

The only question here is which OL is worse at pass protection, Pitt or KC??

Just Passin' By
08-27-2009, 11:20 AM
Preseason game or Super Bowl = no difference ...)

Put Cassel in as the Steelers QB in the Super Bowl and the Cards sack him a dozen times and win easily.

The only question here is which OL is worse at pass protection, Pitt or KC??

Last season, the Patriots won 11 games with Cassel under center, even though the first half of the season was on-the-job training for the guy. He was sacked one more time than Roethlisberger was, but his sack numbers decreased dramatically in the second half of the season. As the season went on, he not only became able to avoid the rush, he became a running threat, finishing with 270 yards rushing.

Brock
08-27-2009, 11:27 AM
Preseason game or Super Bowl = no difference ...)

Put Cassel in as the Steelers QB in the Super Bowl and the Cards sack him a dozen times and win easily.

The only question here is which OL is worse at pass protection, Pitt or KC??

Roethlisberger was sacked 1 fewer time than Cassel was.

TFG
08-27-2009, 11:28 AM
Last season, the Patriots won 11 games with Cassel under center, even though the first half of the season was on-the-job training for the guy. He was sacked one more time than Roethlisberger was, but his sack numbers decreased dramatically in the second half of the season. As the season went on, he not only became able to avoid the rush, he became a running threat, finishing with 270 yards rushing.


Pats with starting QB = 16 wins
Pats with backup QB = 11 wins, no playoffs

Matt Cassel was a backup at USC for a reason. The reason is that he really does not have a strong arm. Cassel floats anything more than 25 yards or so. Good thing the Chiefs don't have any "deep threats" because they would be "decoys." Cassel is smart, has a reasonably quick release, and is better than most NFL backup QBs. The way to stop Cassel is to play tight, safeties up, jump routes, and dare him to throw it deep, because he can't zip a deep ball. Even the Raiders will eventually figure it out...

TFG
08-27-2009, 11:30 AM
Roethlisberger was sacked 1 fewer time than Cassel was.


Pass protection = sacks allowed


Only an actual sack counts as "evidence" of poor pass protection. If the DE burns the OLT and grabs the QB, and the QB escapes, that was excellent pass protection, because an actual sack did not happen.

Hence, Titans ORT Dave Stewart is just awesome at pass protection, since Collins wasn't sacked much at all, nevermind the Titan offense was run run run run quick throw run run run...

Just Passin' By
08-27-2009, 11:40 AM
Pats with starting QB = 16 wins
Pats with backup QB = 11 wins, no playoffs

Matt Cassel was a backup at USC for a reason. The reason is that he really does not have a strong arm. Cassel floats anything more than 25 yards or so. Good thing the Chiefs don't have any "deep threats" because they would be "decoys." Cassel is smart, has a reasonably quick release, and is better than most NFL backup QBs. The way to stop Cassel is to play tight, safeties up, jump routes, and dare him to throw it deep, because he can't zip a deep ball. Even the Raiders will eventually figure it out...

Cassel's 'problem' with the deep ball to Moss was that he couldn't beat the triple teams that Moss faces. He didn't have a problem with the deep ball when it went right through Gaffney's hands on what would have been the difference-making touchdown against the Colts, for example. Also, as Chiefs fans can, no doubt, remember, he didn't have any trouble throwing the deep ball from his own end zone in week one. By the end of last season, with teams all having the book on Cassel, they weren't able to "play tight, safeties up, jump routes, and dare him to throw it deep" enough to beat the Patriots.

Newsflash: Cassel is not the best QB in the NFL. That doesn't mean that Cassel can't play. It means he's in with every other QB in the game who's not named Tom Brady.

WilliamTheIrish
08-27-2009, 11:46 AM
And they'll be in play for a long time, we're talking about a fan base that actually tried to justify that Brodie Croyle and Matt Ryan were similar prospects.

LMAO

Link to the fanbase. Please.

TFG
08-27-2009, 12:07 PM
Cassel's 'problem' with the deep ball to Moss was that he couldn't beat the triple teams that Moss faces. He didn't have a problem with the deep ball when it went right through Gaffney's hands on what would have been the difference-making touchdown against the Colts, for example. Also, as Chiefs fans can, no doubt, remember, he didn't have any trouble throwing the deep ball from his own end zone in week one. By the end of last season, with teams all having the book on Cassel, they weren't able to "play tight, safeties up, jump routes, and dare him to throw it deep" enough to beat the Patriots.

Newsflash: Cassel is not the best QB in the NFL. That doesn't mean that Cassel can't play. It means he's in with every other QB in the game who's not named Tom Brady.



Moss was not triple teamed with Cassel at QB. Show me a clip of a "deep ball" by Cassel and I will show you a rainbow floater.

2008 Week 17 = copied from nfl dot com...

Cassel - longest completion 19 yards


Week 16

2nd longest completion 42 yards = M.Cassel pass short left to 34-S.Morris pushed ob at ARZ 14 for 42 yards (26-R.Hood).

LONGEST pass completion 76 yards = 16-M.Cassel pass short left to 81-R.Moss for 76 yards



Aw, heck, you'll notice...

Just Passin' By
08-27-2009, 12:13 PM
Moss was not triple teamed with Cassel at QB. Show me a clip of a "deep ball" by Cassel and I will show you a rainbow floater.

2008 Week 17 = copied from nfl dot com...

Cassel - longest completion 19 yards


Week 16

2nd longest completion 42 yards = M.Cassel pass short left to 34-S.Morris pushed ob at ARZ 14 for 42 yards (26-R.Hood).

LONGEST pass completion 76 yards = 16-M.Cassel pass short left to 81-R.Moss for 76 yards



Aw, heck, you'll notice...

I saw every snap Cassel took last season.

Jim Jones
08-27-2009, 12:15 PM
The Patriots aren't always right on players they sign or players they release. It just so happens that most Patriot players looked bad once the team let them go because in most of those instances, the player was old or over the hill. In many of those cases that people like to point out of the Patriots being right about letting someone go, SCOTT PIOLI was the one pulling the trigger on that move.. you know, our GM. So I don't know why Belichick is getting the benefit of the doubt with some people around here and Pioli isn't.

tooge
08-27-2009, 12:21 PM
Here is the douchebag who wrote this tripe:

http://hardcoresportsradio.com/members/Dave-Golokhov/default.aspx

http://www.facebook.com/profile/pic.php?uid=AAAAAQAQvl0j2Cl4W6PCee2-6ZeocgAAAAqVTNM-TBQ6s7hSa6Zooz6Y

nice beard, nice pedophilostache, nice hair, nice nose. What a tool. Nice shirt. Since this homo (nttawwt) wrote this, I'm guessing Cassel ends up lighting up the league.

TFG
08-27-2009, 12:40 PM
The Patriots aren't always right on players they sign or players they release. It just so happens that most Patriot players looked bad once the team let them go because in most of those instances, the player was old or over the hill. In many of those cases that people like to point out of the Patriots being right about letting someone go, SCOTT PIOLI was the one pulling the trigger on that move.. you know, our GM. So I don't know why Belichick is getting the benefit of the doubt with some people around here and Pioli isn't.



Personally, I don't really care who did the trade etc. I just care about what I saw of the player while he was playing football. You have a pair of eyes. Use them. Stop playing "the greater guru I'm parroting knows better than the guru you are parroting." How could anyone question the great Super Bowl coach Dick Vermeil for cutting undrafted OG Ryan Lilja.... unless you actually watched Lilja and noticed he was extremely good. If I came here to Chiefs Planet and told everyone here the Chiefs were really stupid to cut Lilja the day they did, how many responses would have told me that Vermeil "knows better than you!!!" ??????

Cassel is not going to escape sacks like Big Ben and he does not have a "gun" beyond about 25 yards for a "zipped" pass. Cutler can zip it 45 yards - Jamarcus about 55. If the defense knows the QB has a limited ability to zip a ball down the field, the strategy then becomes to bait him to try, which, as the "play by play" from last year suggests, he didn't... because not every NFL team had that figured out properly. They will eventually.

WilliamTheIrish
08-27-2009, 01:07 PM
Exactly as I called it just after the trade.

The excuses have already started.

Everyone is getting them ready early, that way when we go 3-13 all the blame is deflected away from the supposed franchise QB.

I noticed this very phenom in the Sanchez' vs Ravens thread. When Sanchez threw that wrongway pick/td the excuse I heard was: "Well... the Ravens will do that to a lot of teams this season".

The excuses for the franchise QB in NY from CP have started too.

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2009, 01:19 PM
I noticed this very phenom in the Sanchez' vs Ravens thread. When Sanchez threw that wrongway pick/td the excuse I heard was: "Well... the Ravens will do that to a lot of teams this season".

The excuses for the franchise QB in NY from CP have started too.

And what's wrong with that comment?

I don't care who it is, I expect a rookie to struggle a bit in his 2nd preseason game against the best defense in the league, on the road.

All we heard about the Cassel deal is how he had more experience, and would be better suited to play with limited weapons and behind a bad OL. How we'd ruin a draft pick at QB. Cassel's a veteran, has experience, so on, and so forth.

Sorry, but people did it to themselves claiming that Cassel is a franchise QB without the risk of a draft pick.

Can't have it both ways.

veist
08-27-2009, 03:03 PM
And what's wrong with that comment?

I don't care who it is, I expect a rookie to struggle a bit in his 2nd preseason game against the best defense in the league, on the road.

All we heard about the Cassel deal is how he had more experience, and would be better suited to play with limited weapons and behind a bad OL. How we'd ruin a draft pick at QB. Cassel's a veteran, has experience, so on, and so forth.

Sorry, but people did it to themselves claiming that Cassel is a franchise QB without the risk of a draft pick.

Can't have it both ways.

Someone actually made that claim? lol

Chief Faithful
08-27-2009, 03:06 PM
Personally, I don't really care who did the trade etc. I just care about what I saw of the player while he was playing football. You have a pair of eyes. Use them. Stop playing "the greater guru I'm parroting knows better than the guru you are parroting." How could anyone question the great Super Bowl coach Dick Vermeil for cutting undrafted OG Ryan Lilja.... unless you actually watched Lilja and noticed he was extremely good. If I came here to Chiefs Planet and told everyone here the Chiefs were really stupid to cut Lilja the day they did, how many responses would have told me that Vermeil "knows better than you!!!" ??????

Cassel is not going to escape sacks like Big Ben and he does not have a "gun" beyond about 25 yards for a "zipped" pass. Cutler can zip it 45 yards - Jamarcus about 55. If the defense knows the QB has a limited ability to zip a ball down the field, the strategy then becomes to bait him to try, which, as the "play by play" from last year suggests, he didn't... because not every NFL team had that figured out properly. They will eventually.

n0ob, you picked a bad example. It is obvious you were not here the day Lilja was cut.

TFG
08-27-2009, 03:28 PM
n0ob, you picked a bad example. It is obvious you were not here the day Lilja was cut.


Glad to hear there were those questioning the cut. Figures that the K-State kid would have some fans watching... even if some were scouts from the Colts...

chiefzilla1501
08-27-2009, 04:57 PM
Pats with starting QB = 16 wins
Pats with backup QB = 11 wins, no playoffs

Matt Cassel was a backup at USC for a reason. The reason is that he really does not have a strong arm. Cassel floats anything more than 25 yards or so. Good thing the Chiefs don't have any "deep threats" because they would be "decoys." Cassel is smart, has a reasonably quick release, and is better than most NFL backup QBs. The way to stop Cassel is to play tight, safeties up, jump routes, and dare him to throw it deep, because he can't zip a deep ball. Even the Raiders will eventually figure it out...

I don't get the segway.

You're comparing Cassel to a hall-of-fame QB and arguably the best QB of his generation. And you're implying that he's backup material because he won a "measley" 11 games and didn't win all 16 games?

Pretty harsh stuff for a guy making his first ever starts in the NFL.

I've seen nothing that leads me to believe Cassel throws a lousy deep ball. He has to work on his accuracy, but the arm strength is fine. The deep ball is by far the most overrated element of a player's game. Can Cassel zip a 50 yarder? No. Can he zip a 20-yarder? Yes.

Even Peyton and Brees throw good not great deep balls.

JASONSAUTO
08-27-2009, 05:02 PM
I don't get the segway.

You're comparing Cassel to a hall-of-fame QB and arguably the best QB of his generation. And you're implying that he's backup material because he won a "measley" 11 games and didn't win all 16 games?

Pretty harsh stuff for a guy making his first ever starts in the NFL.

I've seen nothing that leads me to believe Cassel throws a lousy deep ball. He has to work on his accuracy, but the arm strength is fine. The deep ball is by far the most overrated element of a player's game. Can Cassel zip a 50 yarder? No. Can he zip a 20-yarder? Yes.

Even Peyton and Brees throw good not great deep balls.

to me it's also funny when people bash him for sitting behind 2 heisman winners in college.

TFG
08-27-2009, 05:31 PM
I don't get the segway.

You're comparing Cassel to a hall-of-fame QB and arguably the best QB of his generation. And you're implying that he's backup material because he won a "measley" 11 games and didn't win all 16 games?

Pretty harsh stuff for a guy making his first ever starts in the NFL.

I've seen nothing that leads me to believe Cassel throws a lousy deep ball. He has to work on his accuracy, but the arm strength is fine. The deep ball is by far the most overrated element of a player's game. Can Cassel zip a 50 yarder? No. Can he zip a 20-yarder? Yes.

Even Peyton and Brees throw good not great deep balls.




I love that "he won" 11 games. Nobody else on the Pats mattered at all. Those 11 wins were 100% Cassel.


Brees' arm has gotten stronger since his first few years in SD, but he doesn't have a good deep ball. Brees has about 30-35 yards of range on zipped balls. Brees is super smart, accurate, and throws 50 times a game. He isn't a HOF caliber QB and never will be, and he is overrated because he puts up "big numbers" by throwing 50 times a game and stat parrots and fantasy people love him because of that. Truth be told, good defenses that press Brees really handle the Saints no matter how many yards and scores the Saints get in the meaningless Q4 against prevent. Cassel's "ceiling" is lower, and Brees is about 10 years ahead in net starting experience spotting four at Purdue. Peyton throws excellent deep balls. Peyton is a HOF QB. Brees is a wannabe who only impresses with stats other than wins.

The deep ball is not the most overrated part of the game. Fear of the deep ball causes the D to keep the safeties back, away from the LOS. If the opposing D loses that fear, watch it. For a great example, look at the Titan loss to SD in the playoffs two years ago. SD had nobody on D more than 5 yards off the LOS, because they had no fear of the Titan downfield passing attack, because there was no reason to fear it... and down went the Titans.

To have a ground game in the NFL, the defense must first fear the pass and defend the pass by not stacking the LOS...

Chocolate Hog
08-27-2009, 05:45 PM
Pats with starting QB = 16 wins
Pats with backup QB = 11 wins, no playoffs

Matt Cassel was a backup at USC for a reason. The reason is that he really does not have a strong arm. Cassel floats anything more than 25 yards or so. Good thing the Chiefs don't have any "deep threats" because they would be "decoys." Cassel is smart, has a reasonably quick release, and is better than most NFL backup QBs. The way to stop Cassel is to play tight, safeties up, jump routes, and dare him to throw it deep, because he can't zip a deep ball. Even the Raiders will eventually figure it out...

WTF. Comparing the 2007 Patriots to the 2008 Patriots is apple to oranges. Did you watch any of the Patriots games? Cassel wasn't the reason they lost most of those games so shut your cum dump.

KChiefs1
08-27-2009, 05:46 PM
1 and 1a the chiefs don't draft sanchez

We'll be able to tell pretty quickly on this one.

Cassel or Sanchez?

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-27-2009, 05:47 PM
WTF. Comparing the 2007 Patriots to the 2008 Patriots is apple to oranges. Did you watch any of the Patriots games? Cassel wasn't the reason they lost most of those games so shut your cum dump.

Brady is clearly better and everyone knows that, but you are right it is a HORRIBLE comparison. That team wasn't going 16-0 again.

TFG
08-27-2009, 06:00 PM
Brady is clearly better and everyone knows that, but you are right it is a HORRIBLE comparison. That team wasn't going 16-0 again.



Ah yes, the "you can't say anything bad about our team" deal. Got it. Still waiting for a clip of a deep throw by Cassel that isn't a floater...


The opportunity cost of Cassel and converting to the 3-4 given the personnel on the roster and hence spending 1st and 3rd on 3-4 DLs is a pretty sorry score so far. Scott Pioli has had his first offseaon, and the Chiefs still have a sorry OL and a lame pass rush. The season may prove me wrong, but I'd give Pioli a flat "F" so far. Oh, but you have Matt Cassel to enjoy the fruits of that OL. Sanchez has better pass protection and a better set of skill players, but don't let that stop the "QB and only the QB wins the game crowd" from comparing the two. Craig Krenzel started off 3-0 for da Bears... a lock for the HOF for sure...

JASONSAUTO
08-27-2009, 06:02 PM
Ah yes, the "you can't say anything bad about our team" deal. Got it. Still waiting for a clip of a deep throw by Cassel that isn't a floater...


The opportunity cost of Cassel and converting to the 3-4 given the personnel on the roster and hence spending 1st and 3rd on 3-4 DLs is a pretty sorry score so far. Scott Pioli has had his first offseaon, and the Chiefs still have a sorry OL and a lame pass rush. The season may prove me wrong, but I'd give Pioli a flat "F" so far. Oh, but you have Matt Cassel to enjoy the fruits of that OL. Sanchez has better pass protection and a better set of skill players, but don't let that stop the "QB and only the QB wins the game crowd" from comparing the two. Craig Krenzel started off 3-0 for da Bears... a lock for the HOF for sure...

the thigpen and cassel bashers are the ones who act like "the qb and only the qb wins the game"

Pasta Giant Meatball
08-27-2009, 06:04 PM
Ah yes, the "you can't say anything bad about our team" deal. Got it. Still waiting for a clip of a deep throw by Cassel that isn't a floater...


The opportunity cost of Cassel and converting to the 3-4 given the personnel on the roster and hence spending 1st and 3rd on 3-4 DLs is a pretty sorry score so far. Scott Pioli has had his first offseaon, and the Chiefs still have a sorry OL and a lame pass rush. The season may prove me wrong, but I'd give Pioli a flat "F" so far. Oh, but you have Matt Cassel to enjoy the fruits of that OL. Sanchez has better pass protection and a better set of skill players, but don't let that stop the "QB and only the QB wins the game crowd" from comparing the two. Craig Krenzel started off 3-0 for da Bears... a lock for the HOF for sure...

Your and idiot

Chocolate Hog
08-27-2009, 06:15 PM
Ah yes, the "you can't say anything bad about our team" deal. Got it. Still waiting for a clip of a deep throw by Cassel that isn't a floater...


The opportunity cost of Cassel and converting to the 3-4 given the personnel on the roster and hence spending 1st and 3rd on 3-4 DLs is a pretty sorry score so far. Scott Pioli has had his first offseaon, and the Chiefs still have a sorry OL and a lame pass rush. The season may prove me wrong, but I'd give Pioli a flat "F" so far. Oh, but you have Matt Cassel to enjoy the fruits of that OL. Sanchez has better pass protection and a better set of skill players, but don't let that stop the "QB and only the QB wins the game crowd" from comparing the two. Craig Krenzel started off 3-0 for da Bears... a lock for the HOF for sure...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHFEdh8jjiU

Dumbass

tonyetony
08-27-2009, 06:21 PM
Ah yes, the "you can't say anything bad about our team" deal. Got it. Still waiting for a clip of a deep throw by Cassel that isn't a floater...


The opportunity cost of Cassel and converting to the 3-4 given the personnel on the roster and hence spending 1st and 3rd on 3-4 DLs is a pretty sorry score so far. Scott Pioli has had his first offseaon, and the Chiefs still have a sorry OL and a lame pass rush. The season may prove me wrong, but I'd give Pioli a flat "F" so far. Oh, but you have Matt Cassel to enjoy the fruits of that OL. Sanchez has better pass protection and a better set of skill players, but don't let that stop the "QB and only the QB wins the game crowd" from comparing the two. Craig Krenzel started off 3-0 for da Bears... a lock for the HOF for sure...


How many QB's throw 50 yard passes on a fly route like a 15 yard out pattern? Uh if your trying to go over the top the ball will need a higher trajectory. I disagree with your idea of Cassel having a rag arm. Instead of asking for evidence of long balls why don't you produce a clip of all the FLOATERS you seem to reference every other comment.

TFG
08-27-2009, 06:30 PM
Dumbass


Interesting that even with that view, you don't see the ball in the air, because the throw is so high the camera misses it. I don't know what you define as a "floater" but that surely doesn't refute anything I've posted. That is a medium deep out lobbed to Moss so high it is out of the camera... LMAO

JASONSAUTO
08-27-2009, 06:31 PM
Interesting that even with that view, you don't see the ball in the air, because the throw is so high the camera misses it. I don't know what you define as a "floater" but that surely doesn't refute anything I've posted. That is a medium deep out lobbed to Moss so high it is out of the camera... LMAO

show me a qb that throws a 40-50 yard pass that stays in camera without the camera panning up

TFG
08-27-2009, 06:33 PM
Correct, that is a 40 yard deep out FLOATER. Ball travels 55 yards in the air and Moss is there for it. But the pass is not exactly zipped. LOL. No. If you want to say that is "not a floater" then you have no clue at all.

Count Alex's Losses
08-27-2009, 06:33 PM
Who cares about floaters?

Joe Fucking Montana floated his way into the Hall of Fame.

TFG
08-27-2009, 06:37 PM
show me a qb that throws a 40-50 yard pass that stays in camera without the camera panning up


The system does not let me post LINKS...

There is a six minute Eddie Royal tape on youtube, the second clip of which is about 40 yards in the air from Jay...

Just Passin' By
08-27-2009, 06:37 PM
Correct, that is a 40 yard deep out FLOATER. Ball travels 55 yards in the air and Moss is there for it. But the pass is not exactly zipped. LOL. No. If you want to say that is "not a floater" then you have no clue at all.

Ok. I wasn't sure if you were a troll or a fucking idiot. Now, I realize that you're a fucking idiot even if you are a troll.

TFG
08-27-2009, 06:38 PM
Who cares about floaters?

Joe ****ing Montana floated his way into the Hall of Fame.


I don't agree with that. Joe had about 35 yards of laser when he needed it.

TFG
08-27-2009, 06:38 PM
Ok. I wasn't sure if you were a troll or a ****ing idiot. Now, I realize that you're a ****ing idiot even if you are a troll.



Sorry if the truth hurts...

LOCOChief
08-27-2009, 06:53 PM
Colin Brown, 5th round

Donald Washington, 4th round (when Leggett, Carr & Flowers are on the roster).

I'm not with Pioli until he proves he knows something we don't.

I can understand this, but it's one thing to take a wait and see approach like I think you're saying and another to anticipate Poilis failure like the douchbag did with this list.

Just Passin' By
08-27-2009, 06:56 PM
Sorry if the truth hurts...

You're an idiot. Sorry if the truth hurts.

Count Alex's Losses
08-27-2009, 06:56 PM
I don't agree with that. Joe had about 35 yards of laser when he needed it.

SO DOES CASSEL.

Jeez.

Go and watch highlights of Montana's deep balls - the stuff he threw over 40 yards, deep down the field.

High, arcing, floaters.

Completely irrelevant, quite frankly.

TFG
08-27-2009, 08:11 PM
SO DOES CASSEL.

Jeez.

Go and watch highlights of Montana's deep balls - the stuff he threw over 40 yards, deep down the field.

High, arcing, floaters.

Completely irrelevant, quite frankly.



I must say I admire and respect the fans of the KC Chiefs... as fans.


I strongly disagree that Cassel has as strong an arm as Montana did. Montana did float some, but he could zip it when he needed to, and did. Neither could get it 40 yards zipped, but Montana had 10 on Cassel. Cassel, for an NFL starting QB, has a weak arm. The tape of the throw to Moss is everything he has with perfect protection, something he won't have here. Matt has 25 yards of zip and 55 of float. That allows defenses to pinch, jump routes, and blitz, and this roster doesn't appear to have either Randy Moss or Jerry Rice on it. Enjoy the season. Regardless of what happens, just remember that Pioli is the smartest darn GM ever to walk the planet, at least until he is fired...

WilliamTheIrish
08-27-2009, 08:12 PM
And what's wrong with that comment?

I don't care who it is, I expect a rookie to struggle a bit in his 2nd preseason game against the best defense in the league, on the road.

All we heard about the Cassel deal is how he had more experience, and would be better suited to play with limited weapons and behind a bad OL. How we'd ruin a draft pick at QB. Cassel's a veteran, has experience, so on, and so forth.

Sorry, but people did it to themselves claiming that Cassel is a franchise QB without the risk of a draft pick.

Can't have it both ways.

That's a sweet excuse too. You expect that from a rookie. Okay. Ground work laid.

And look, I don't give a rat's ass either way. What the Chiefs do in the war room and on the field is completely out of my control. All I can do is be a fan of the laundry the guy wears.

TFG
08-27-2009, 08:13 PM
You're an idiot. Sorry if the truth hurts.


At least your grammar is acceptable. The last one was "your and idiot."

WilliamTheIrish
08-27-2009, 08:34 PM
At least your grammar is acceptable. The last one was "your and idiot."

Acceptable lexicon.

It has a story behind it that, as you grow on this forum, you'll find and laugh about.

One other notable: Retart=retard.

Skip Towne
08-27-2009, 08:40 PM
Why is this douche still green? Feel welcome to help me fix that.

Pioli Zombie
08-27-2009, 09:53 PM
Why is this douche still green? Feel welcome to help me fix that.

Your douche has been coming out green since you've been on the soft vegetables you old fuck.
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the Talking Can
08-27-2009, 10:07 PM
this thread is parachute out of a plane and get stuck in the branches of an aids tree hilarious....

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2009, 10:10 PM
this thread is parachute out of a plane and get stuck in the branches of an aids tree hilarious....

You should take a look at the one where someone claims that Ben Roethlisberger lucked into 2 Lombardi Trophies, and that Kurt Warner was "nothing special" before he got to Arizona.

DaneMcCloud
08-27-2009, 10:13 PM
You should take a look at the one where someone claims that Ben Roethlisberger lucked into 2 Lombardi Trophies, and that Kurt Warner was "nothing special" before he got to Arizona.

I'll take Trent Green any day of the week over those guys.

I just hope that Cassel is as good as Green.

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2009, 10:15 PM
I'll take Trent Green any day of the week over those guys.

I just hope that Cassel is as good as Green.

LMAO

ALL WE NEEDED WAS A DEFENSE AND WE WOULD HAVE ROLLED TO THE SUPER BOWL!!!111!1!!!1111one11eleventy...2

WilliamTheIrish
08-27-2009, 10:15 PM
You should take a look at the one where someone claims that Ben Roethlisberger lucked into 2 Lombardi Trophies, and that Kurt Warner was "nothing special" before he got to Arizona.

Uh-oh. CAn you link me to that/those?

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2009, 10:19 PM
Uh-oh. CAn you link me to that/those?

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=6007619&postcount=170

Roethlisberger's stats are average at best, but since he was drafted in the first round and his defense handed him 2 super bowls, he must be a HOFer. :rolleyes:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=6007932&postcount=214

Hey, I put Kurt Warner in the category of "surrounded by talent, nothing special", before he did what he did in Arizona last year.

Mecca
08-27-2009, 10:20 PM
If sedated is going to go to stats, I'm wondering if he thinks Phil Rivers is a top 3 QB.

the Talking Can
08-27-2009, 10:20 PM
You should take a look at the one where someone claims that Ben Roethlisberger lucked into 2 Lombardi Trophies, and that Kurt Warner was "nothing special" before he got to Arizona.

i was actually talking about your posts


the whole let's-try-really-hard-to-be-upset-about-a-season-that-hasn't-even-started-because-we're-obsessive-compulsive-and-slightly-miserable-martyrs-selling-some-a-ha-gotcha-argument-about-cassel-that-is-actually-incomprehensible-and-just-a-piss-poor-logical-sleight-of-hand-based-on-half-heard-comments-by-like-one-or-two-actual-posters-that-magically-become-representative-of-the-entire-planet-for-the-sole-purpose-of-enabling-the-fantasy-that-you-are-a-lone-knight-defending-reason-against-muslim-hordes-and-like-it-is-all-treated-like-it-is-real-life-and-not-just-some-poor-simulacrum-on-a-less-than-meaningless-sports-message-board-thing is really old and boring....just let mecca do it, at least he's good at it....




and yeah, those things you mentioned, that two people out of a 1000 believe, are stupid too

DaneMcCloud
08-27-2009, 10:20 PM
Uh-oh. CAn you link me to that/those?

Dude, they're everywhere. Seriously.

There are people in this forum that thinks that Roesthisberger sucks, even after driving his team 80+ yards for the Super Bowl win.

They bring up his stats, talk about the defense, etc.

It's insane.

Mecca
08-27-2009, 10:22 PM
Dude, they're everywhere. Seriously.

There are people in this forum that thinks that Roesthisberger sucks, even after driving his team 80+ yards for the Super Bowl win.

They bring up his stats, talk about the defense, etc.

It's insane.

Um dude it's the QB position, I don't know what it is but our fan base generally speaking does not like QB's.

OnTheWarpath58
08-27-2009, 10:28 PM
i was actually talking about your posts


the whole let's-try-really-hard-to-be-upset-about-a-season-that-hasn't-even-started

No reason to read past here.

I'm not upset at all. How the hell can you get upset when you have ZERO expectations?

If they aren't 6-10 or better next year, and competing for the division in 2011, THEN I'll get upset.

veist
08-27-2009, 10:38 PM
You should take a look at the one where someone claims that Ben Roethlisberger lucked into 2 Lombardi Trophies, and that Kurt Warner was "nothing special" before he got to Arizona.

To be fair, one could at least make the argument that Rofflesburger's lack of intelligence cost them the chance at any kind of contention in 2006.

DaneMcCloud
08-28-2009, 01:10 AM
To be fair, one could at least make the argument that Rofflesburger's lack of intelligence cost them the chance at any kind of contention in 2006.

WHAT?

veist
08-28-2009, 03:42 AM
You know when he almost got himself killed? That was the thing I was getting at. And then I'm sorry but either the team or he himself rushed him back to the field that season after his appendectomy and then again after his concussion either way he needs to be able to tell them no. Think you are confusing the 2005 post season with the 2006 regular season which is what I'm talking about. He played more like Jake Plummer in one of his 20 INT seasons than himself in 2006.

chiefzilla1501
08-28-2009, 05:19 AM
Dude, they're everywhere. Seriously.

There are people in this forum that thinks that Roesthisberger sucks, even after driving his team 80+ yards for the Super Bowl win.

They bring up his stats, talk about the defense, etc.

It's insane.

I don't think he sucks. I think he's an amazing QB.

But don't deny for a second that he's able to play in his style of play because of his amazing defense. His defense gave up 13.9 points per game. Do you realize that in 5 seasons, the Chiefs' defense has only given up 14 or less points 16 times? The Steelers did it TEN TIMES in one season.

Chiefnj2
08-28-2009, 09:10 AM
Interesting that even with that view, you don't see the ball in the air, because the throw is so high the camera misses it. I don't know what you define as a "floater" but that surely doesn't refute anything I've posted. That is a medium deep out lobbed to Moss so high it is out of the camera... LMAO

You are criticizing a perfectly thrown 40 yard pass?

Brock
08-28-2009, 09:13 AM
Um dude it's the QB position, I don't know what it is but our fan base generally speaking does not like QB's.

That's a stupid thing to say.

JASONSAUTO
08-28-2009, 10:23 AM
No reason to read past here.

I'm not upset at all. How the hell can you get upset when you have ZERO expectations?

If they aren't 6-10 or better next year, and competing for the division in 2011, THEN I'll get upset.

BULLSHIT

Brock
08-28-2009, 10:28 AM
BULLSHIT

You some kind of mind reader?

L.A. Chieffan
08-28-2009, 10:34 AM
how come jets trading up and taking sanchez isnt on the list? or lions drafting stafford #1? these are obviously worse things right?

ct
08-28-2009, 11:11 AM
They traded Matt Cassel because it was more adventageous for the organization to cash in his trade value (which ballooned from out of nowhere!), than to pay him the market value he had earned as a backup for thier team. This, also, is the Patriot way, not just get rid of players who are finished at just the right time.

Branch and Samuel were let go for mostly financial reasons, not cause they got old and suck. Branch fell short of expectations from injury, not poor performance.

JASONSAUTO
08-28-2009, 11:55 AM
You some kind of mind reader?

no all you have to do is read a couple of his posts.

OnTheWarpath58
08-28-2009, 12:01 PM
no all you have to do is read a couple of his posts.

Then you're doing a real shitty job of it, as always.

I've been predicting no more than 4-5 wins for this team since before Pioli and Haley were hired, so I'm not sure how I could be upset by anything they've done or haven't done - when you have no expectations, it's hard to be disappointed.

Nice try, Ms. Cleo.

JASONSAUTO
08-28-2009, 12:10 PM
Then you're doing a real shitty job of it, as always.

I've been predicting no more than 4-5 wins for this team since before Pioli and Haley were hired, so I'm not sure how I could be upset by anything they've done or haven't done - when you have no expectations, it's hard to be disappointed.

Nice try, Ms. Cleo.

whatever asshole. you arent upset over anything they have or havent done? ANYTHING? bullshit.

Brock
08-28-2009, 12:13 PM
no all you have to do is read a couple of his posts.

I've read more than a couple of his posts. I'm not reading "upset" from any of what he's said.

OnTheWarpath58
08-28-2009, 12:16 PM
whatever asshole. you arent upset over anything they have or havent done? ANYTHING? bullshit.

CAN YOU READ?

Why would I be upset when I've has ZERO expectations since before Pioli was hired?

Are there things they've done or haven't done that I don't agree with?

Absolutely.

But being upset about them?

Why?

I've thought all along that it's going to take 3 years for this team to be respectable again. What would cause me to get upset when I've expected them to suck all along?

JASONSAUTO
08-28-2009, 12:17 PM
I've read more than a couple of his posts. I'm not reading "upset" from any of what he's said.

really? so he's not upset we drafted tyson jackson? not upset we traded for cassel rather than draft a qb? not upset we didnt sign young WRs? not upset we didnt get more o-line help? maybe you dont read so good.

JASONSAUTO
08-28-2009, 12:18 PM
CAN YOU READ?

Why would I be upset when I've has ZERO expectations since before Pioli was hired?

Are there things they've done or haven't done that I don't agree with?

Absolutely.

But being upset about them?

Why?

I've thought all along that it's going to take 3 years for this team to be respectable again. What would cause me to get upset when I've expected them to suck all along?

yeah dumbass i can read and 90% of your posts lately have sounded like a baby who's mom took away the tit.

Brock
08-28-2009, 12:21 PM
really? so he's not upset we drafted tyson jackson? not upset we traded for cassel rather than draft a qb? not upset we didnt sign young WRs? not upset we didnt get more o-line help? maybe you dont read so good.

He obviously disagreed with those moves. He can disagree without being upset, just as I am doing with you right now, brushing aside your ignorant speculative comment about my literacy.

JASONSAUTO
08-28-2009, 12:22 PM
He obviously disagreed with those moves. He can disagree without being upset, just as I am doing with you right now, brushing aside your ignorant speculative comment about my literacy.

well if you cant tell he's been upset the i dont know what else the problem is...

Brock
08-28-2009, 12:23 PM
well if you cant tell he's been upset the i dont know what else the problem is...

I know what the problem is. You're speculating about someone's state of mind over the internet, which is not exactly smart.

OnTheWarpath58
08-28-2009, 12:27 PM
yeah dumbass i can read and 90% of your posts lately have sounded like a baby who's mom took away the tit.

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JASONSAUTO
08-28-2009, 12:35 PM
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YEAH i didnt get shit there

TFG
08-28-2009, 12:36 PM
You are criticizing a perfectly thrown 40 yard pass?



Actually, the distance the ball travels in the air is about 55 yards, since it is thrown in the middle of the field at about the 45 and caught on the sideline at the 15. The question was not the accuracy of the pass, but whether or not anyone could show me a video of a "deep pass" by Cassel that was not FLOATED. I am not questioning Matt's accuracy, but rather his arm strength. There is no way to deny that pass is floated. It has a high arc and spends about four seconds in the air. A "zipped" pass is "flat" and "fast." A "floater" is soft with lots of arc and much longer time in the air. So, once again, I ask the Red Planet here, can anyone show me a pass by Cassel of more than 25 yards in the air that is a ZIPPED flat fastball, not a floating arcing sky high softball???

Start the Jeopardy! music...

JASONSAUTO
08-28-2009, 12:36 PM
I know what the problem is. You're speculating about someone's state of mind over the internet, which is not exactly smart.

ok and you are doing the same thing no? i mean saying he's not upset is the same as saying he is.

Brock
08-28-2009, 12:38 PM
ok and you are doing the same thing no? i mean saying he's not upset is the same as saying he is.

I guess I'd have to just take his word for it, since, you know, his feelings are the topic of discussion. Jesus.ROFL

Count Alex's Losses
08-28-2009, 12:39 PM
Cassel, for an NFL starting QB, has a weak arm.

Oh, garbage. His arm is stronger than Trent Green's.

If you find fault with this throw you're a fool.

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JASONSAUTO
08-28-2009, 12:41 PM
I guess I'd have to just take his word for it, since, you know, his feelings are the topic of discussion. Jesus.ROFL


ok well read some posts. if you can throw the fits he does and post about the same fucking thing for hours on end you probably are upset

TFG
08-28-2009, 12:42 PM
Honestly, if you cannot or will not read what I post, there is no sense replying. That is not a ZIPPED deep pass. It is a FLOATER. It is an accurate FLOATER, but it is indeed a FLOATER. It isn't a perfect spiral and Moss actually has to wait about a half second for it to get there. It is late getting there because it lacks MUSTARD, ZIP, ARM STRENGTH, LAZER...

Can you understand that ACCURACY and ARM STRENGTH are 2 different things???

Brock
08-28-2009, 12:45 PM
ok well read some posts. if you can throw the fits he does and post about the same ****ing thing for hours on end you probably are upset

Circular logic.

TFG
08-28-2009, 12:45 PM
Trent Green had a weak arm for an NFL starter. The greatness of the Chief Offense during Trent's tenure here was the OFFENSIVE LINE, which was the best OL in recent history of the NFL. Priest Holmes and each and every one of his backups got 150 yards per game without much trouble BECAUSE OF THE OL. Trent Green's passer rating was excellent because Trent had time to see the field and step into his throws.

Put Trent Green behind a sorry offensive line and, well, what did the last Chief playoff game look like???

JASONSAUTO
08-28-2009, 12:46 PM
Circular logic.

most is, life is a circle

Chiefnj2
08-28-2009, 12:51 PM
Actually, the distance the ball travels in the air is about 55 yards, since it is thrown in the middle of the field at about the 45 and caught on the sideline at the 15. The question was not the accuracy of the pass, but whether or not anyone could show me a video of a "deep pass" by Cassel that was not FLOATED. I am not questioning Matt's accuracy, but rather his arm strength. There is no way to deny that pass is floated. It has a high arc and spends about four seconds in the air. A "zipped" pass is "flat" and "fast." A "floater" is soft with lots of arc and much longer time in the air. So, once again, I ask the Red Planet here, can anyone show me a pass by Cassel of more than 25 yards in the air that is a ZIPPED flat fastball, not a floating arcing sky high softball???

Start the Jeopardy! music...

How about the Matty Ice I video?

TFG
08-28-2009, 12:57 PM
How about the Matty Ice I video?



Yes, indeed, that is a zipped ball. Thrown at the 14, caught at the 41...

Range 27 yards.

Sorry. I was wrong. I said Matt had 25 yards of zip. He actually has 27. Please forgive me.

Count Alex's Losses
08-28-2009, 01:06 PM
This throw travels 42 yards (more if you account for the angle) and takes about 2.3 seconds (I noted the time in virtualdubmod from the frame of his release to the frame of the ball hitting the hands) to get there. Weak arm? Really?

http://i32.tinypic.com/29nta46.gif

Pioli Zombie
08-28-2009, 01:11 PM
Same crap that was said about Brady. Weak arm. Can't throw it deep. In the meantime. Zip zip zip. Ball always got there
His arm is good enough. He's got the other intangibles that are more important.

Want arm strength. Get Jeff George.
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Chiefnj2
08-28-2009, 01:15 PM
This throw travels 42 yards (more if you account for the angle) and takes about 2.3 seconds (I noted the time in virtualdubmod from the frame of his release to the frame of the ball hitting the hands) to get there. Weak arm? Really?

http://i32.tinypic.com/29nta46.gif

In the Miami game he has a 32 yard rope in the 2nd half. The clip is up at nfl.com if you care to post it.

JASONSAUTO
08-28-2009, 01:18 PM
This throw travels 42 yards (more if you account for the angle) and takes about 2.3 seconds (I noted the time in virtualdubmod from the frame of his release to the frame of the ball hitting the hands) to get there. Weak arm? Really?

http://i32.tinypic.com/29nta46.gif

but it left the screen so it was a floater

jidar
08-28-2009, 01:19 PM
Is it just me or are the coaches and FO people from the Pats just so unbelievably arrogant that they simply believe that, whatever is on the roster, a 3-4 and a new QB are the solution? I mean, what on Earth would convince anyone that the Chiefs needed to go 3-4? A: Patriotic arrogance. Same in Denver too. Anyone and everyone ever to stand within a few feet of Bill Belichick is just an unreal genius who knows that the way to success in the NFL is to switch to a 3-4 regardless of what talent is on the roster and then give up anything and everything for a USC backup QB, including that no-good Jay Cutler.



My Chief offseason:

FIX THE OL = 1) Eugene Monroe ... and undrafteds Darryl Harris and Edwin Williams, and likely Jamon Meredith with that Round 5er. Yeah, hindsight is... OK, I would have Drafted all of those higher... and kept the 4-3, kept Jason Babin who was showing something, and grabbed Ron Brace in Round 2 to pair with Dorsey and STOP THE RUN...


The Pioli strategy has to be questioned. The OL was the overwhelming #1 need, and what... Colin Brown in Round 5, Goff as a UFA??? Man, that just doesn't exactly impress me at all. I'd call that the #1 goof or "regrettable decision" this offseason, with Cassel a Chief behind the goof of the attempt to make Cassel the Bronco...

#1 overwhelming need huh?


So the Chiefs D-line set an NFL record for least sacks in a season... I'm not sure it's so obvious as all of that.
Hrmmmm..... :hmmm:

DaneMcCloud
08-28-2009, 01:22 PM
So the Chiefs D-line set an NFL record for least sacks in a season

D-line? Huh-uh.

The entire DEFENSE set the record for least amount of sacks in a single season at 10.

Personally, I don't see many more in store for the 2009 season. Who's going to get to the QB? Vrabel? Hali? Ha!

I'm actually extremely excited that the Chiefs moved back to the 3-4 defense but I think it's going to take at least one more offseason before we see any significant results in regards to sacks.

TFG
08-28-2009, 01:42 PM
[QUOTE=GoChiefs;6009706]This throw travels 42 yards (more if you account for the angle) and takes about 2.3 seconds (I noted the time in virtualdubmod from the frame of his release to the frame of the ball hitting the hands) to get there. Weak arm? Really?

/QUOTE]


What is great about that one is that, once again, the ball is thrown so high it is out of the picture. Have another angle of that?

TFG
08-28-2009, 01:44 PM
Same crap that was said about Brady. Weak arm. Can't throw it deep. In the meantime. Zip zip zip. Ball always got there
His arm is good enough. He's got the other intangibles that are more important.

Want arm strength. Get Jeff George.
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Good example. Byron Leftwich is another. Leftwich can throw a flat 50 yard lazer. That doesn't make him a good QB.

Arm strength is, however, an important part of the arsenal. Without it, the offense is "limited" by it.