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SNR
08-28-2009, 03:46 PM
Great article today on what the Chiefs need at NT. Gretz did a great job lining up a conversation with Tank that people like Teicher are too lazy to get ahold of.

DEFENSE NEEDS A NOSE … FRIDAY CUP O’CHIEFS
August 28, 2009 - Bob Gretz | Comments (40)

If a team is going to play the 3-4 defensive scheme, one position must be solid: nose tackle.

Without a guy playing heads up on the center and disturbing the offensive line blocking assignments, the rest of the defense just doesn’t work right. It’s like lining up the dominos; if the nose tackle can hold his ground inside and force two blockers to work him over, he starts a chain reaction that rolls like a wave all the way out to the secondary.

With pre-season game No. 3 just a day away, the Chiefs are still searching for the right combination at nose tackle in their new 3-4 defense. Ron Edwards (left), Tank Tyler and Derek Lokey have played the position and so far; their consistency and their production has been found wanting.
And that comes from the head coach.

“We are still searching,” said Todd Haley. “That’s why we were rotating last game and we’ll probably be in a similar mode this week in trying to get one or a couple of those guys to step up and show they want the job.”

Good nose tackles tend to be nasty sorts. The position was basically created for guys like Curley Culp when he was with the Chiefs. His teammates used to call him Surly Culp, but never to his face. The position requires a big and strong man, with a mean disposition

“That’s a man’s position, especially as much of the 3-4 that we’re playing,” said Haley. “When you’re the nose and you’re in there a lot of that is just want-to. You’re fighting, scratching, clawing and it’s not for everyone.
“I think all three of the guys have the ability to do it, it’s just a matter of getting it done on a consistent basis.”

There’s no question that Edwards and Tyler are big enough. Edwards is listed at 6-3, 315 pounds and Tyler is 6-2, 305 pounds. Lokey is on the small side at 6-1, 285 pounds.

But Edwards is one of the quietest players on the Chiefs roster and has never shown much in the way of nastiness on the field. Tyler is not always quiet, but he’s certainly not running around and playing like a nasty nose tackle.

“I’m waiting to see Tank kind of … the thing I remember about Tank when he was coming out was just the nastiness that he played with,” said Haley. “I mean he was a bad dude and you didn’t want to mess around with him. So, I’m waiting to see a little more of that.”
Is Tank too nice these days?

“I don’t think I play nice,” Tyler said. “I play as hard and intense as I need to play and I’ve got a lot to give. I guess if he (Haley) thinks I should be tougher, I’d better be tougher.

“Down in the trenches you have to have some meanness and a nasty streak in you to hit another man in the mouth on every play … I can turn it up 100 notches. I can always get better. I want to continue to get better every day.”
Tyler says he loves the nose.

“The 3-4 is a very exciting defense and being right there in the middle, right there in the heart of it, it’s like all eyes are on you and I’m prepared for that,” the third-year pro out of North Carolina state said. “There are different blocking schemes that people use on the nose in the 3-4, but it’s still getting off the ball, gaining penetration and being aggressive on every snap.”

That’s exactly what Haley hasn’t seen from his nose tackles on a consistent basis: getting off the ball, penetration and aggression. There are plays where Edwards looks unblockable as he mauls interior linemen during a practice. There are plays where Tyler blows up plays with his quick penetration in the A gap.

And then there are times when they disappear. For the 3-4 to be successful there can be no disappearing acts from the nose tackle.
Right now, Todd Haley just wants somebody to stand up and claim the job.

Bane
08-28-2009, 03:49 PM
2 man enter 1 man leave.That will decide it once and for all!!!

Pitt Gorilla
08-28-2009, 03:49 PM
Ziggy Hood would have been perfect for the Chiefs.

Just Passin' By
08-28-2009, 03:50 PM
http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv123/Gardnerius/1251183338.png

Demonpenz
08-28-2009, 03:54 PM
I was noticing our NT getting pushed all over the place our first game. So I started tooling around with the new madden and found sucess making some changes to the 3-4. First one of the problems with our NT is they he isn't strong enough at the point of attack. So I tried putting two guys where the NT is, but spread them out just a bit like over the guards so they couldn't just got the two guys in the middle. The next thing is I moved Hali in a bit to be over the Tackle. Now since I had to bring in another guy to help the NT get some push I dropped out the weakest linebacker completely. It seemed to help work on getting good push up the middle. To assist hali I also had him in a 3 point stance. Dorsey seemed to be more natural in the NTAP or the Nose tack assist position.

RustShack
08-28-2009, 03:54 PM
Ziggy Hood would have been perfect for the Chiefs.

ROFL

He would be a DE, not a NT.

OnTheWarpath58
08-28-2009, 03:56 PM
Shocking that no one is working out at NT, none of them are big enough, IMO.

The best 34 NT's are all around 325-340.

Pitt Gorilla
08-28-2009, 03:58 PM
ROFL

He would be a DE, not a NT.I suppose that is true.

Demonpenz
08-28-2009, 03:59 PM
we should get brock lesner

Mr. Krab
08-28-2009, 04:00 PM
Tyler said. “I play as hard and intense as I need to playBig problem
The answer should be "I play as hard and intense as i CAN"


I think Tank's issue so far has been laziness more than lack of talent.

DaneMcCloud
08-28-2009, 04:00 PM
ROFL

He would be a DE, not a NT.

No, he wouldn't.

Peter King even said this week that Hood will replace Casey Hampton sooner than later.

DaneMcCloud
08-28-2009, 04:02 PM
Big problem
The answer should be "I play as hard and intense as i CAN"


I think Tank's issue so far has been laziness more than lack of talent.

I don't think it's laziness, per se. I just don't think he's been motivated and coached to play hard.

In college, he was dominant because of his athleticism. It happens to a lot of guys who turn pro. If they aren't coached properly, they fail.

The good thing is that Tyler's not moping and says he can turn it up.

That's a good sign.

Oregon chief
08-28-2009, 04:02 PM
I was noticing our NT getting pushed all over the place our first game. So I started tooling around with the new madden and found sucess making some changes to the 3-4. First one of the problems with our NT is they he isn't strong enough at the point of attack. So I tried putting two guys where the NT is, but spread them out just a bit like over the guards so they couldn't just got the two guys in the middle. The next thing is I moved Hali in a bit to be over the Tackle. Now since I had to bring in another guy to help the NT get some push I dropped out the weakest linebacker completely. It seemed to help work on getting good push up the middle. To assist hali I also had him in a 3 point stance. Dorsey seemed to be more natural in the NTAP or the Nose tack assist position.

If you substitue the nose with tackle with two guys lined up over the gaurds isn't that just a 4-3?

Demonpenz
08-28-2009, 04:04 PM
3wnta-4

DaneMcCloud
08-28-2009, 04:04 PM
If you substitue the nose with tackle with two guys lined up over the gaurds isn't that just a 4-3?

No.

The duties and athleticism required by the 4-3 lineman is different.

Tyson Jackson doesn't have the pass rushing skills of Julius Peppers, Mario Williams, Bruce Smith, Neil Smith, etc.

SNR
08-28-2009, 04:06 PM
Shocking that no one is working out at NT, none of them are big enough, IMO.

The best 34 NT's are all around 325-340.How big is BJ Raji? If we're having trouble finding the dominating NT we need for the 3-4 and we could have had the best one in the draft... uff-dah. The Jackson pick looks even worse.

the Talking Can
08-28-2009, 04:06 PM
If you substitue the nose with tackle with two guys lined up over the gaurds isn't that just a 4-3?


LMAO


welcome to the planet, you've been 'penzed....

Oregon chief
08-28-2009, 04:07 PM
LMAO


welcome to the planet, you've been 'penzed....

'penzed...??

OnTheWarpath58
08-28-2009, 04:08 PM
How big is BJ Raji? If we're having trouble finding the dominating NT we need for the 3-4 and we could have had the best one in the draft... uff-dah. The Jackson pick looks even worse.

Almost 340, IIRC.

Haloti Ngata range.

Micjones
08-28-2009, 04:09 PM
How big is BJ Raji? If we're having trouble finding the dominating NT we need for the 3-4 and we could have had the best one in the draft... uff-dah. The Jackson pick looks even worse.

We need both.

orange
08-28-2009, 04:09 PM
If you substitue the nose with tackle with two guys lined up over the gaurds isn't that just a 4-3?

You don't come around much, do you?

Sam Hall
08-28-2009, 04:09 PM
I think Terrence Cody is the solution to this problem. Unfortunately, he's still in college.

bluehawkdoc
08-28-2009, 04:09 PM
I hear this guy is available at nose tackle and he already wears Chiefs colors.

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w261/Natebrade/skinnyman.jpg

Demonpenz
08-28-2009, 04:10 PM
'penzed...??

just means i am being sarcastic or painfully obvious.

Oregon chief
08-28-2009, 04:12 PM
Got ya... and I love the irony. I don't post much but I check to see whats going on about every day. There is enough slang on here that some people may not understand entire conversations.

penchief
08-28-2009, 04:13 PM
How big is BJ Raji? If we're having trouble finding the dominating NT we need for the 3-4 and we could have had the best one in the draft... uff-dah. The Jackson pick looks even worse.

Everything I hear is that the Packers are playing Raji at the same DE position that we are playing Dorsey and Magee.

Demonpenz
08-28-2009, 04:14 PM
Got ya... and I love the irony. I don't post much but I check to see whats going on about every day. There is enough slang on here that some people may not understand entire conversations.

well post more and that shit wouldn't happen :)

DeezNutz
08-28-2009, 04:14 PM
Most 'penz posts are full of fail.

He's got the arm of Ron Mahay and the range of UNNi Betancourt.

Demonpenz
08-28-2009, 04:15 PM
i am worried terrence cody might die of a heart attack before we get all we can out of him

Buzzsaw
08-28-2009, 04:16 PM
There’s no question that Edwards and Tyler are big enough. Edwards is listed at 6-3, 315 pounds and Tyler is 6-2, 305 pounds. Lokey is on the small side at 6-1, 285 pounds.

:spock:

Hmm, Jamal Williams, Kris Jenkins, and Vince Wilfork are all in the 350-360lb range

Mr. Krab
08-28-2009, 04:17 PM
Most 'penz posts are full of fail.

He's got the arm of Ron Mahay and the range of UNNi Betancourt.
Heh, i don't know about all that but he sure is one weird dude. :)

carlos3652
08-28-2009, 04:17 PM
just means i am being sarcastic or painfully obvious.


So technically... every post you are getting Penzed...

TFG
08-28-2009, 04:31 PM
No, he wouldn't.

Peter King even said this week that Hood will replace Casey Hampton sooner than later.


Hood was absolutely mauled by Brandon Walker of OU in the Big 12 title game. Walker, undrafted by the Texans, then got a quick DUI and got cut. He was a three year starter at ORG for the Onor Ul (the Oklahoma way of spelling Honor Roll, in response to Nebraska putting an "N" on their helmet to stand for "Nowledge.") I believe Hood has played DE so far, but I'd have to check. I don't see how Hood is a NT in the NFL. Hood's game is quickness, not power.

The best NT in the Draft was Ron Brace. Good thing we scored him with our Second Rounder... oops, we traded that to NE, and then NE took Brace. Y'all get to see Brace in an hour and a half... against the Skins.

CupidStunt
08-28-2009, 04:36 PM
No, he wouldn't.


Uh, yes he would. Just like he already is.

TFG
08-28-2009, 04:37 PM
Another potential "NT" was available for a Fifth as an RFA - the Skins Anthony Montgomery. He's another one who really plays with power and cannot be moved by double teams.

DaneMcCloud
08-28-2009, 05:11 PM
Uh, yes he would. Just like he already is.

Well, you guys may know more about him than Peter King but here's what he had to say about Hood:

The Steelers could be hurt the most in free agency next year, with defensive end Brett Keisel, underrated free safety Ryan Clark, nose tackle Casey Hampton and running back Willie Parker slated to be free. But suppose Rashard Mendenhall's progress this year makes Parker a luxury, and suppose the team decides that Hampton, at 32 and with a history of weight problems, isn't worth the risk of another contract, particularly with defensive-tackle heir Ziggy Hood already on the team. If they chose, they could put tags on Clark and Keisel, ensuring they wouldn't lose either of their two need players.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/08/23/mmqb/1.html

chiefzilla1501
08-28-2009, 05:16 PM
Shocking that no one is working out at NT, none of them are big enough, IMO.

The best 34 NT's are all around 325-340.

Yup. There was one rare exception, though. Kelly Gregg and he was outstanding, but only weighed in around 305. I can't remember why he was different, though.

For that matter, are we running a 3-4? I'm still confused by this. Is it possible we're just running a 3-4 in the preseason just so we don't show our hand? I was under the impression that our defense would largely be a 4-3 under and we'd flash a few 3-4 looks.

DaneMcCloud
08-28-2009, 05:22 PM
For that matter, are we running a 3-4? I'm still confused by this. Is it possible we're just running a 3-4 in the preseason just so we don't show our hand?


LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO

kstater
08-28-2009, 05:26 PM
For that matter, are we running a 3-4? I'm still confused by this. Is it possible we're just running a 3-4 in the preseason just so we don't show our hand? I was under the impression that our defense would largely be a 4-3 under and we'd flash a few 3-4 looks.

Showing you're football knowledge again?

CoMoChief
08-28-2009, 05:27 PM
Ziggy Hood would have been perfect for the Chiefs.

He's too small to be a NT.

Besides he plays RDE, and he's gonna be a beast there too.

Just Passin' By
08-28-2009, 05:28 PM
Well, you guys may know more about him than Peter King but here's what he had to say about Hood:

The Steelers could be hurt the most in free agency next year, with defensive end Brett Keisel, underrated free safety Ryan Clark, nose tackle Casey Hampton and running back Willie Parker slated to be free. But suppose Rashard Mendenhall's progress this year makes Parker a luxury, and suppose the team decides that Hampton, at 32 and with a history of weight problems, isn't worth the risk of another contract, particularly with defensive-tackle heir Ziggy Hood already on the team. If they chose, they could put tags on Clark and Keisel, ensuring they wouldn't lose either of their two need players.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/08/23/mmqb/1.html



Well, given that teams will only have one Franchise tag available, they can only protect one player. The second tag would be just a transition tag.

DaneMcCloud
08-28-2009, 05:30 PM
Well, given that teams will only have one Franchise tag available, they can only protect one player. The second tag would be just a transition tag.

I think you missed the point

Just Passin' By
08-28-2009, 05:31 PM
I think you missed the point

No, it was just an independent observation. I should have noted that. Sorry.

googlegoogle
08-28-2009, 05:37 PM
Tank Tyler doesn't have strength or size to play 3-4?

Probably an effort thing.

Tiger's Fan
08-28-2009, 05:38 PM
Yup. There was one rare exception, though. Kelly Gregg and he was outstanding, but only weighed in around 305. I can't remember why he was different, though.

For that matter, are we running a 3-4? I'm still confused by this. Is it possible we're just running a 3-4 in the preseason just so we don't show our hand? I was under the impression that our defense would largely be a 4-3 under and we'd flash a few 3-4 looks.

You're a shifty bastard, like Herm.

TFG
08-28-2009, 05:40 PM
Well, given that teams will only have one Franchise tag available, they can only protect one player. The second tag would be just a transition tag.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4396443

"ESPN.com's Live Coverage of Cardinals-Steelers"

"ESPN's James Walker: Rookie first-round pick Evenader "Ziggy" Hood is in at LDE. "


That's what I thought I saw too, but he may have been moved since.

Sure-Oz
08-28-2009, 05:41 PM
Trade dorsey and a 2nd rounder for bj raji!11111111

RustShack
08-28-2009, 05:42 PM
Isn't Peter King the one who said Magee would be our NT too?

TFG
08-28-2009, 05:45 PM
Trade dorsey and a 2nd rounder for bj raji!11111111


Raji is really not an ideal NT. If you watched BC closely last year, you noticed that Brace was consistently quicker off the snap than Raji. Raji can be effectively doubled and blown back in part because of that. Once the flow of the play started, it became clear that Raji was a better overall athlete than Brace, especially chasing down backs. However, the combo of quick off the snap and real power are rare, and Brace has that. Very few others available this offseason had that combo. An NFL NT needs both of those properties to be successful.

CupidStunt
08-28-2009, 05:49 PM
Raji is really not an ideal NT. If you watched BC closely last year, you noticed that Brace was consistently quicker off the snap than Raji. Raji can be effectively doubled and blown back in part because of that. Once the flow of the play started, it became clear that Raji was a better overall athlete than Brace, especially chasing down backs. However, the combo of quick off the snap and real power are rare, and Brace has that. Very few others available this offseason had that combo. An NFL NT needs both of those properties to be successful.

Not even remotely true. Which is probably good when you're trying to make the point that Raji isn't a prototype two-gap NT.

Brace can hold the point but lacks explosion and lateral quickness.

TFG
08-28-2009, 05:52 PM
Not even remotely true. Which is probably good when you're trying to make the point that Raji isn't a prototype two-gap NT.

Brace can hold the point but lacks explosion and lateral quickness.


Those are not the same thing, although "explosion" is often used for "quick off the snap." I have four tapes of BC from last year. You can watch the LOS and slow the tape to really see it. Brace was almost always quicker off the snap. In fact, I'd even suggest that Raji has a "late off the snap" issue similar to Jamal Anderson at Arkansas (all of his sacks there were really "pursuit" sacks, not quick off the snap sacks). Dangerous, risky, bad use of a top 10 by the Pack. Much better value for the dork in the sweatshirt...

penchief
08-28-2009, 06:16 PM
Trade dorsey and a 2nd rounder for bj raji!11111111

Again, the packers are playing Raji at the same position we are playing Dorsey and Magee. I have no doubt that he will make his mark but if we were going to draft a DT to convert him to a 34 DE, why not just draft the top 34 DE in the draft? Which is what we did.

Raji may very well end up having a bigger impact than Jackson but it doesn't look like it's going to be at NT.

milkman
08-28-2009, 06:24 PM
Well, you guys may know more about him than Peter King but here's what he had to say about Hood:

The Steelers could be hurt the most in free agency next year, with defensive end Brett Keisel, underrated free safety Ryan Clark, nose tackle Casey Hampton and running back Willie Parker slated to be free. But suppose Rashard Mendenhall's progress this year makes Parker a luxury, and suppose the team decides that Hampton, at 32 and with a history of weight problems, isn't worth the risk of another contract, particularly with defensive-tackle heir Ziggy Hood already on the team. If they chose, they could put tags on Clark and Keisel, ensuring they wouldn't lose either of their two need players.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/08/23/mmqb/1.html



Peter King is an assclown who knows less than the jackasses at WPI.

Mecca
08-28-2009, 06:25 PM
Again, the packers are playing Raji at the same position we are playing Dorsey and Magee. I have no doubt that he will make his mark but if we were going to draft a DT to convert him to a 34 DE, why not just draft the top 34 DE in the draft? Which is what we did.

Raji may very well end up having a bigger impact than Jackson but it doesn't look like it's going to be at NT.

They're going to use Raji at both positions with the idea that he will transition into the NT position over the course of a season or 2.

Sure-Oz
08-28-2009, 06:26 PM
Again, the packers are playing Raji at the same position we are playing Dorsey and Magee. I have no doubt that he will make his mark but if we were going to draft a DT to convert him to a 34 DE, why not just draft the top 34 DE in the draft? Which is what we did.

Raji may very well end up having a bigger impact than Jackson but it doesn't look like it's going to be at NT.

I was being sarcastic, hence the !111111111111111111 :)

Mecca
08-28-2009, 06:27 PM
Basically all this means, is the Chiefs are going to get mauled in the run game up the middle.

DaneMcCloud
08-28-2009, 06:37 PM
Peter King is an assclown who knows less than the jackasses at WPI.

I understand but often times he prints stuff like that because that's what he's been told by management.

milkman
08-28-2009, 06:38 PM
Basically all this means, is the Chiefs are going to get mauled in the run game up the middle.

That ain't exactly a newsflash.

Buehler445
08-28-2009, 06:43 PM
Peter King is an assclown who knows less than the jackasses at WPI.

Woah woah WOAH now... Don't go talking all crazy like.
Posted via Mobile Device

Mecca
08-28-2009, 06:43 PM
That ain't exactly a newsflash.

Well it's stuff like that, that makes me make a weird face when people say the Chiefs are going to win 7 games or have a chance against the Giants or something.

milkman
08-28-2009, 06:52 PM
Well it's stuff like that, that makes me make a weird face when people say the Chiefs are going to win 7 games or have a chance against the Giants or something.

How does anyone discern normal from weird?

Fruit Ninja
08-28-2009, 07:08 PM
I was noticing our NT getting pushed all over the place our first game. So I started tooling around with the new madden and found sucess making some changes to the 3-4. First one of the problems with our NT is they he isn't strong enough at the point of attack. So I tried putting two guys where the NT is, but spread them out just a bit like over the guards so they couldn't just got the two guys in the middle. The next thing is I moved Hali in a bit to be over the Tackle. Now since I had to bring in another guy to help the NT get some push I dropped out the weakest linebacker completely. It seemed to help work on getting good push up the middle. To assist hali I also had him in a 3 point stance. Dorsey seemed to be more natural in the NTAP or the Nose tack assist position.

you lose when you compare madden and NFL football. That game is so broken, it does nothing right. lol

orange
08-28-2009, 07:13 PM
How does anyone discern normal from weird?

http://www.mopo.ca/uploaded_images/jowler-1-752641.jpg

Easy 6
08-28-2009, 07:25 PM
:spock:

Hmm, Jamal Williams, Kris Jenkins, and Vince Wilfork are all in the 350-360lb range

Yep, the teams that play 3-4 the best have a house at NT.

Teddy Pendergast will have to use scheme to compensate.

boogblaster
08-28-2009, 07:32 PM
We had a NT in camp bout 2 years ago dont remember his name but they used him for shade during training camp ..Big mean SOB that had to take the pads out of his helmet to fit his head ...

chiefzilla1501
08-28-2009, 07:47 PM
Showing you're football knowledge again?

Dipshit. Pendergast's defense in Arizona was a defense that mixed some 3-4 with a 4-3 under. It was a bit of a hybrid defense. This isn't "showing off." This is stating what most people already know.

chiefzilla1501
08-28-2009, 08:00 PM
You're a shifty bastard, like Herm.

Troll

2bikemike
08-28-2009, 08:05 PM
Our problems are doubled IMHO by the fact that we don't have that nasty fugger in the pit but also we don't have a D-line coach worth a damn either.

I don't know if Tank or Edwards will ever pan out for what we want from them. But I am damn sure we need to change D-line coaches.

I often wonder if the only reason Krummie is around is because he hollars and gets in the grills of his players. ( I think Haley likes that) He sure doesn't seem to be teaching them much.

chiefzilla1501
08-28-2009, 08:11 PM
Our problems are doubled IMHO by the fact that we don't have that nasty fugger in the pit but also we don't have a D-line coach worth a damn either.

I don't know if Tank or Edwards will ever pan out for what we want from them. But I am damn sure we need to change D-line coaches.

I often wonder if the only reason Krummie is around is because he hollars and gets in the grills of his players. ( I think Haley likes that) He sure doesn't seem to be teaching them much.

I was hoping Krumrie would get fired too. But keep in mind that he's one of only two coaches that Haley and Pioli kept on board. And Pioli is a guy that should know a lot about Krumrie--recall that he coached Buffalo's D-line, which was in New England's division.

So while Krumrie pissed me off, I'll just try to trust Pioli's judgment on this. I feel more comfortable about it because it was a completely independent, impartial set of eyes that made the decision to keep him.

ArrowheadMagic
08-28-2009, 08:18 PM
We dont have anyone that knows how to play NT, outside of Lokey, think size isnt the issue. The bigger the better of course, but 300 to 320, is big enough to be effective if you know to play the position. Would have rather had Brace than Raji... but since we have neither.. Tyson will do.

B_Ambuehl
08-28-2009, 08:43 PM
Basically all this means, is the Chiefs are going to get mauled in the run game up the middle.

That's the truth. Quite a few of the more knowledgeable people on this board saw this coming wayyyyyy back before the draft.

Even if Tank Tyler exerts max effort I don't think he really has the right build to be an effective nose tackle. Standout nosetackles are all built with a disproportionately large lower half with huge hips. Tyler has a big gut and upper body with smaller lower half.

kstater
08-28-2009, 09:06 PM
Dipshit. Pendergast's defense in Arizona was a defense that mixed some 3-4 with a 4-3 under. It was a bit of a hybrid defense. This isn't "showing off." This is stating what most people already know.

So the D they're running in the actual games is all a smokescreen right?

chiefzilla1501
08-28-2009, 09:16 PM
So the D they're running in the actual games is all a smokescreen right?

I've heard a lot of reports that the Chiefs were going to run a lot of the 4-3 under. Given the Chiefs' current personnel, it makes a lot more sense. Given the Chiefs' complete inexperience with the 3-4, I was wondering if they're running much more of that look in the preseason just to get them some familiarity with the defense. I know it sounds crazy, but is anyone convinced that the 3-4 is going to actually be our base defense? It doesn't make any sense to me why the Chiefs would run a base defense they don't have the personnel or coordinator for.

DaneMcCloud
08-28-2009, 09:16 PM
I've heard a lot of reports that the Chiefs were going to run a lot of the 4-3 under. Given the Chiefs' current personnel, it makes a lot more sense. Given the Chiefs' complete inexperience with the 3-4, I was wondering if they're running much more of that look in the preseason just to get them some familiarity with the defense. I know it sounds crazy, but is anyone convinced that the 3-4 is going to actually be our base defense? It doesn't make any sense to me why the Chiefs would run a base defense they don't have the personnel or coordinator for.

Crack is bad

kstater
08-28-2009, 09:21 PM
Crack is bad

psst, the real plays are under double secret lockdown.

kstater
08-28-2009, 09:22 PM
I know it sounds crazy, but is anyone convinced that the 3-4 is going to actually be our base defense? It doesn't make any sense to me why the Chiefs would run a base defense they don't have the personnel or coordinator for.

Considering roughly 99% of the preseason plays have been run as a 3-4 base, I think they just may run a 3-4 defense this year.

chiefzilla1501
08-28-2009, 09:44 PM
Considering roughly 99% of the preseason plays have been run as a 3-4 base, I think they just may run a 3-4 defense this year.

Again, I haven't seen any preseason games, but are you sure it's a 3-4 alignment? I'm not fortunate enough to see preseason games in this area, but a lot of the highlights I've seen seem to suggest that they're running more of the 4-3 under, where Hali plays more of a predator than he does a traditional 3-4 OLB. If that's the case, then the NT isn't nearly as critical to the defense.

It seems like the base defense I see a lot of in those clips is Boone-Edwards-Dorsey-Hali. And there always seems to be a LB lined up over the TE. That looks like a 4-3 Under to me. Hali is basically a DE that lines up a little wider and often takes his hand off the ground. That's the main difference.

KcFanInGA
08-28-2009, 09:53 PM
Nose tackles should get to use shanks on third downs, that would be interesting. That said, I would love to see Tyler or someone step up and be nasty. Like Ty Cobb was to baseball.

Fruit Ninja
08-29-2009, 03:54 AM
It is a 3-4. I think one of the coaches said they were running nothing but 3-4. they arent hybrid'ing anything.

Tribal Warfare
08-29-2009, 04:12 AM
With their 1st pick overall the Kansas City Chiefs select....... Terence Cody NT out of Alabama.

milkman
08-29-2009, 04:18 AM
Considering roughly 99% of the preseason plays have been run as a 3-4 base, I think they just may run a 3-4 defense this year.

Actually, having focused exclusively on Glen Dorsey in the first game, he was attacking the B gap on nearly every snap, so no, we haven't run roughly 99% of our preseason plays in a 34.

milkman
08-29-2009, 04:19 AM
It is a 3-4. I think one of the coaches said they were running nothing but 3-4. they arent hybrid'ing anything.

You need to take a closer look.

milkman
08-29-2009, 04:21 AM
With their 1st pick overall the Kansas City Chiefs select....... Terence Cody NT out of Alabama.

Yeah, yeah, we get it.

Give it a fucking rest.

It's already getting fucking old and we have 9 months until that draft rolls.

raypec85
08-29-2009, 11:16 AM
Yup. There was one rare exception, though. Kelly Gregg and he was outstanding, but only weighed in around 305. I can't remember why he was different, though..

Jay Ratliff in Dallas is right around 300 pounds.

BigChiefFan
08-29-2009, 11:55 AM
I still think Boone would be our best candidate, but unfortunately, at this point, he's a rotational guy at best. Lokey has quietly had a good camp and is edging for a roster spot, but is another rotational guy. Tank Tyler has the most upside, but hasn't seized the opportunity to cement the position. We had a few opportunities in FA and the draft and somewhat ignored the position, but I also realize there's only so much a GM can do in one off-season. Let's hope someone steps up, because I doubt many 3-4 teams are dumping their NTs.

milkman
08-29-2009, 12:00 PM
I still think Boone would be our best candidate, but unfortunately, at this point, he's a rotational guy at best. Lokey has quietly had a good camp and is edging for a roster spot, but is another rotational guy. Tank Tyler has the most upside, but hasn't seized the opportunity to cement the position. We had a few opportunities in FA and the draft and somewhat ignored the position, but I also realize there's only so much a GM can do in one off-season. Let's hope someone steps up, because I doubt many 3-4 teams are dumping their NTs.

I don't think Boone is remotely capable of playing the nose in a 34.

He is struggling at the point of a attack at DE in this defense.

CupidStunt
08-29-2009, 12:07 PM
There were no real opportunities in FA that I remember, and there weren't a "few" real options in the draft. Raji was one, but that's about it outside of some project second-day types.

Pioli Zombie
08-29-2009, 12:14 PM
I just have a feeling Vince Wilfork is going to be in KC in 2010.
Posted via Mobile Device

Tribal Warfare
08-29-2009, 12:17 PM
I just have a feeling Vince Wilfork is going to be in KC in 2010.
Posted via Mobile Device

Noway, he gets out NE without being tagged.

BigChiefFan
08-29-2009, 12:23 PM
I don't think Boone is remotely capable of playing the nose in a 34.

He is struggling at the point of a attack at DE in this defense.AGAIN..."but unfortunately, at this point, he's a rotational guy at best"

beach tribe
08-29-2009, 02:31 PM
If you substitue the nose with tackle with two guys lined up over the gaurds isn't that just a 4-3?

LMAO

beach tribe
08-29-2009, 02:32 PM
No.

The duties and athleticism required by the 4-3 lineman is different.

Tyson Jackson doesn't have the pass rushing skills of Julius Peppers, Mario Williams, Bruce Smith, Neil Smith, etc.

LMAO

milkman
08-29-2009, 02:34 PM
AGAIN..."but unfortunately, at this point, he's a rotational guy at best"

Not at NT, he wouldn't be a "rotational guy at best".

Ron Edwards suck ass, but he is a rotational guy at least.

At NT, Boone would be the interior O-Line's bitch.