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Chocolate Hog
08-29-2009, 06:30 PM
Who spends all that money on a QB and doesn't upgrade the o-line? Fuck you.

UsualSuspects
08-29-2009, 06:33 PM
Stupid much?

Not 1 regular game played.

Chocolate Hog
08-29-2009, 06:40 PM
Stupid much?

Not 1 regular game played.

Stupid much? Not 1 regular game played and the franchise QB already injured his knee cuz his shit O-line. Pay a QB to play behind a shitty o-line, nice logic doucherocket.

DaFace
08-29-2009, 06:40 PM
You smell of stinky penis.

JuicesFlowing
08-29-2009, 06:42 PM
Clearly Pioli knows nothing about building a championship franchise. Carl Peterson where art thou?ROFL

Von Dumbass
08-29-2009, 06:48 PM
Stupid much? Not 1 regular game played and the franchise QB already injured his knee cuz his shit O-line. Pay a QB to play behind a shitty o-line, nice logic doucherocket.

ROFL

kstater
08-29-2009, 06:49 PM
I can't believe he didn't use all of his 237 draft picks on linemen.

Bane
08-29-2009, 06:52 PM
Ok Denver you can the the guy you ran your QB out of town for now !!!! Lmao!!!
Posted via Mobile Device

BigMeatballDave
08-29-2009, 06:53 PM
You smell of stinky penis.
ROFL

BigMeatballDave
08-29-2009, 06:54 PM
R-tard

Chocolate Hog
08-29-2009, 06:56 PM
R-tard

Yea, Trade a 2nd round pick and pay a QB 63 mil with a shitty o-line. Your fat anyway probably just think about food and haven't put too much thought into anything else.

UsualSuspects
08-29-2009, 06:56 PM
You smell of stinky penis.

He is god, just ask him. :)

scorpio
08-29-2009, 06:57 PM
Ok Denver you can the the guy you ran your QB out of town for now !!!! Lmao!!!
Posted via Mobile Device

Still having trouble with the English language I see.

UsualSuspects
08-29-2009, 07:01 PM
Yea, Trade a 2nd round pick and pay a QB 63 mil with a shitty o-line. Your fat anyway probably just think about food and haven't put too much thought into anything else.

Missouris' finest.

ROFL

BigChiefFan
08-29-2009, 07:03 PM
They just said Cassel was probable for returning.

BigMeatballDave
08-29-2009, 07:07 PM
Yea, Trade a 2nd round pick and pay a QB 63 mil with a shitty o-line. Your fat anyway probably just think about food and haven't put too much thought into anything else.I Think about fucking your woman a lot...:)

Bwana
08-29-2009, 07:25 PM
billay billay billay :shake:

Bane
08-29-2009, 07:26 PM
Still having trouble with the English language I see.

I could really care less what you see.I do see the back of your mothers head a lot though.
Posted via Mobile Device

KcMizzou
08-29-2009, 07:26 PM
Missouris' finest.

ROFLWhoa now... he's a Husker fan.

MGRS13
08-29-2009, 07:27 PM
Who spends all that money on a QB and doesn't upgrade the o-line? **** you.

Yea then you could have started a thread like who the hell rebuilds a team without starting with the defensive line........... dumbass!

UsualSuspects
08-29-2009, 07:28 PM
Whoa now... he's a Husker fan.

It was a joke.

Sorry.

So you claim him?

:doh!:

Mecca
08-29-2009, 07:29 PM
It's a reasonable point he just phrased it in a inflammatory way,

KcMizzou
08-29-2009, 07:29 PM
It was a joke.

Sorry.

So you claim him?

:doh!:Hell no...lol

UsualSuspects
08-29-2009, 07:30 PM
Hell no...lol

Just checking.

LOL

Deberg_1990
08-29-2009, 07:31 PM
It's a reasonable point he just phrased it in a inflammatory way,

YOu cant expect to upgrade all the holes on a 2 win team in 1 off season. Its just not gonna happen overnight.

Skip Towne
08-29-2009, 07:31 PM
That stupid Pioli should have filled all our holes in 3 months.

Baconeater
08-29-2009, 07:32 PM
Whoa now... he's a Husker fan.
But he lives in Missouri...so he's yours. :D

MGRS13
08-29-2009, 07:32 PM
It's a reasonable point he just phrased it in a inflammatory way,
if we would have drafted 2 o lineman first everyone would just be saying, "we got 10 sacks last year why didnt we upgrade the defense." It's a damned if you do thing. You got to start somewhere. We should have drafted Orakpo huh mecca?

Mecca
08-29-2009, 07:33 PM
YOu cant expect to upgrade all the holes on a 2 win team in 1 off season. Its just not gonna happen overnight.

I agree with that too, but at the same time if they decided Jackson was the guy at 3 and all that, there were still numerous OL prospects available on the 2nd day and there were quite a few in FA.

It doesn't seem like a wise move to trade for and give a QB a franchise deal then let him get beat up. It's almost like setting him up to fail.

Mecca
08-29-2009, 07:33 PM
if we would have drafted 2 o lineman first everyone would just be saying, "we got 10 sacks last year why didnt we upgrade the defense." It's a damned if you do thing. You got to start somewhere. We should have drafted Orakpo huh mecca?

No I don't like Orakpo, and you don't have to use your first round pick to address the OL, I'm actually a proponent of not drafting OL in the first round.

Chocolate Hog
08-29-2009, 07:34 PM
I forgot this is Chiefsplanet and you can't speak about the new GM.

UsualSuspects
08-29-2009, 07:34 PM
I agree with that too, but at the same time if they decided Jackson was the guy at 3 and all that, there were still numerous OL prospects available on the 2nd day and there were quite a few in FA.

It doesn't seem like a wise move to trade for and give a QB a franchise deal then let him get beat up. It's almost like setting him up to fail.

Hello Guinness. Wow we agree.

Skip Towne
08-29-2009, 07:35 PM
Defenses are easier to build is why he started there.

Chocolate Hog
08-29-2009, 07:36 PM
I wasn't saying upgrade every position but its reasonable to expect the 3 time super bowl blah blah to atleast upgrade the center and RT. Thats really not asking for much.

LaChapelle
08-29-2009, 07:36 PM
Calm down, bi-lay

MGRS13
08-29-2009, 07:36 PM
No I don't like Orakpo, and you don't have to use your first round pick to address the OL, I'm actually a proponent of not drafting OL in the first round.
If there is a sure fire LT in the first round you have to do it. Of course we have a LT so i'm against it.

BigMeatballDave
08-29-2009, 07:37 PM
I agree with that too, but at the same time if they decided Jackson was the guy at 3 and all that, there were still numerous OL prospects available on the 2nd day and there were quite a few in FA.

It doesn't seem like a wise move to trade for and give a QB a franchise deal then let him get beat up. It's almost like setting him up to fail.6 of one, half dozen of the other. What if there was a stud veteran OL we threw a truck load of money at. People would still be crying about our QB situation. Rome wasn 't built in a day...

KcMizzou
08-29-2009, 07:37 PM
I forgot this is Chiefsplanet and you can't speak about the new GM.The beauty of Chiefsplanet is the fact that you can say damned near anything you want. And the fact that everyone can say pretty much anything they want back to you about it.

BigMeatballDave
08-29-2009, 07:38 PM
I wasn't saying upgrade every position but its reasonable to expect the 3 time super bowl blah blah to atleast upgrade the center and RT. Thats really not asking for much.You cannot upgrade all that and QB in one off season.

Mecca
08-29-2009, 07:38 PM
Uh the Chiefs had the money to pay a OL and get Cassel if they wanted...

Seriously if this team had used a 5th round pick on Jamon Meredeith he'd likely be the starting RT right now.

It's just little things like that.

Bwana
08-29-2009, 07:38 PM
The beauty of Chiefsplanet is the fact that you can say damned near anything you want. And the fact that everyone can say pretty much anything they want back to you about it.

Indeed :thumb:

UsualSuspects
08-29-2009, 07:39 PM
I wasn't saying upgrade every position but its reasonable to expect the 3 time super bowl blah blah to atleast upgrade the center and RT. Thats really not asking for much.

True fan or rebuild like we need?

MadMax
08-29-2009, 07:39 PM
I wasn't saying upgrade every position but its reasonable to expect the 3 time super bowl blah blah to atleast upgrade the center and RT. Thats really not asking for much.



He already had a nice wanger wtf you want? LMAO Besides he is Gawd do not question him.

BigMeatballDave
08-29-2009, 07:39 PM
I forgot this is Chiefsplanet and you can't speak about the new GM.Slam him all you want. Its unreasonable at this point.

MGRS13
08-29-2009, 07:40 PM
Who spends all that money on a QB and doesn't upgrade the o-line? **** you.

Bitch if you want but I see you're not pointing out we all ready have half as many sacks in the preseason as we did all of last year.

BigMeatballDave
08-29-2009, 07:41 PM
Uh the Chiefs had the money to pay a OL and get Cassel if they wanted...

Seriously if this team had used a 5th round pick on Jamon Meredeith he'd likely be the starting RT right now.

It's just little things like that.Did you miss your calling as a GM because you wouldn't cut your hair? :D

Tiger's Fan
08-29-2009, 07:42 PM
Calm down, bi-lay

LOL

Mecca
08-29-2009, 07:42 PM
Asking the Chiefs to acquire 2 decent starting lineman isn't really unreasonable unless you think Alex Magee, Donald Washington and Colin Brown are guys we can't possibly do without.

MGRS13
08-29-2009, 07:42 PM
Uh the Chiefs had the money to pay a OL and get Cassel if they wanted...

Seriously if this team had used a 5th round pick on Jamon Meredeith he'd likely be the starting RT right now.

It's just little things like that.
hindsight is 20 20. Meredeith may be good but so is Clady and Orakpo and D. Morgon sucks, so every one makes mistakes.

Mecca
08-29-2009, 07:45 PM
hindsight is 20 20. Meredeith may be good but so is Clady and Orakpo and D. Morgon sucks, so every one makes mistakes.

Sure but this team took Brown over Meredith when even people in the draft thread were like "WTF would you do that?"

There's reasonable risk and upside.

notorious
08-29-2009, 07:45 PM
Asking the Chiefs to acquire 2 decent starting lineman isn't really unreasonable unless you think Alex Magee, Donald Washington and Colin Brown are guys we can't possibly do without.

Absofuckinglutely

Chocolate Hog
08-29-2009, 07:47 PM
LOL

haha coming from the guy who wants to fight Mecca.

Chocolate Hog
08-29-2009, 07:48 PM
Yea everyone should be excited that Cassel got hurt becuz of the shitty o-line. Durrrrr

MGRS13
08-29-2009, 07:48 PM
Sure but this team took Brown over Meredith when even people in the draft thread were like "WTF would you do that?"

There's reasonable risk and upside.

You can't say what the chiefs didnt like about so and so. such is the draft. Maybe brown did something that they thought fit in there system better. I think where you get drafted, by what team I mean, sometimes goes a long way for a player.

UsualSuspects
08-29-2009, 07:52 PM
Hire mecca now!

Saccopoo
08-29-2009, 07:53 PM
Asking the Chiefs to acquire 2 decent starting lineman isn't really unreasonable unless you think Alex Magee, Donald Washington and Colin Brown are guys we can't possibly do without.

This. Times a billion.

tk13
08-29-2009, 07:54 PM
This team had too many holes. They weren't all going to be filled. No team hits 100% of the time on their personnel moves. And I was one of the people that wouldn't have freaked if we went O-line in the first. But that would've left holes in other places. We needed a QB, our defense was terrible across the board. Our pass rush was historically bad. That's how you go 2-14, that's hard to do unless you are really bad.

mlyonsd
08-29-2009, 07:59 PM
This thread is littered with idiots.

ziggysocki
08-29-2009, 08:05 PM
Our O-line is absolutely fucking god damn motherfucking trash. they fucking suck. they fucking suck hard. assholes

Saccopoo
08-29-2009, 08:05 PM
This team had too many holes. They weren't all going to be filled. No team hits 100% of the time on their personnel moves. And I was one of the people that wouldn't have freaked if we went O-line in the first. But that would've left holes in other places. We needed a QB, our defense was terrible across the board. Our pass rush was historically bad. That's how you go 2-14, that's hard to do unless you are really bad.

Jackson is understandable as the first pick. Cassel and Vrabel as our second rounder is a steal. The rest of the draft was nothing less than a complete headscratcher in terms of addressing the obvious needs that the Chiefs had, especially considering what/who was available in each round when the Chiefs picked. And this isn't hindsight. Everyone, and I mean everyone, on the Draft Planet were "WTF?," including people who were in total disagreement about certain players, etc. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - it was either a transition thing where the Pioli/Haley regime just didn't have the time to properly prepare for the draft, the old crew sent them a shit sandwich as a parting gift, or whathaveyou, but this last draft hurt the Chiefs in terms of not immediately addressing areas of obvious problems.

As Mecca stated, it would have been rather easy to get two new starting OL out of this last draft if they wanted especially when you look at what we had sitting around and knowing that it was that line who got two of your quarterbacks killed last season and you just picked up what was going to be your QBOTF.

I don't know if it merits a "Fuck you Pioli.", but it does require a "Dude...?"

Micjones
08-29-2009, 08:09 PM
The Chiefs could've upgrade this Offensive Line significantly, and at a reasonable price, this off-season.

Ray Willis, one of the best young RT's in the NFL, was available. He re-signed with the team we're playing tonight for a modest contract.

There were a shit ton of young talented Guards in the Draft we could easily have taken over a guy like Donald Washington.

They dropped the ball a bit in that regard.

Skip Towne
08-29-2009, 08:11 PM
Hire mecca now!

Why did they pay Pioli millions when they could get Mecca for $8 an hour?

DaFace
08-29-2009, 08:12 PM
That stupid Pioli should have filled all our holes in 3 months.

NTTAWWT :shrug:

DeezNutz
08-29-2009, 08:23 PM
NTTAWWT :shrug:

LMAO

Simply Red
08-29-2009, 08:40 PM
Uh the Chiefs had the money to pay a OL and get Cassel if they wanted...

Seriously if this team had used a 5th round pick on Jamon Meredeith he'd likely be the starting RT right now.

It's just little things like that.

lol

UsualSuspects
08-29-2009, 08:41 PM
lol

They never listen!

UsualSuspects
08-29-2009, 08:42 PM
Why did they pay Pioli millions when they could get Mecca for $8 an hour?

I am a N00b. Still learning.

TEX
08-29-2009, 08:49 PM
You cannot upgrade all that and QB in one off season.

You can sure try. The Chiefs didn't which shocked me. Especially when you consider that our OL has sucked for the past couple of seasons.

kstater
08-29-2009, 08:57 PM
You can sure try. The Chiefs didn't which shocked me. Especially when you consider that our OL has sucked for the past couple of seasons.

Yup, I can't believe they ONLY brought in roughly 35 new players.

TEX
08-29-2009, 09:01 PM
Yup, I can't believe they ONLY brought in roughly 35 new players.

And NONE upgraded the line...

tk13
08-29-2009, 09:09 PM
Jackson is understandable as the first pick. Cassel and Vrabel as our second rounder is a steal. The rest of the draft was nothing less than a complete headscratcher in terms of addressing the obvious needs that the Chiefs had, especially considering what/who was available in each round when the Chiefs picked. And this isn't hindsight. Everyone, and I mean everyone, on the Draft Planet were "WTF?," including people who were in total disagreement about certain players, etc. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - it was either a transition thing where the Pioli/Haley regime just didn't have the time to properly prepare for the draft, the old crew sent them a shit sandwich as a parting gift, or whathaveyou, but this last draft hurt the Chiefs in terms of not immediately addressing areas of obvious problems.

As Mecca stated, it would have been rather easy to get two new starting OL out of this last draft if they wanted especially when you look at what we had sitting around and knowing that it was that line who got two of your quarterbacks killed last season and you just picked up what was going to be your QBOTF.

I don't know if it merits a "Fuck you Pioli.", but it does require a "Dude...?"
I don't disagree, but what I said is right. No matter if we tried to upgrade every single position, some of those moves would've failed. That's just reality. If you think you could upgrade a 2 win team with holes at almost every position into a team full of quality starters in one offseason you truly should be in an NFL front office.

And I was one of the people arguing that drafting Stafford or Sanchez was a big risk because we have so much work to do with the O-line. Often times rookie QB's thrown behind bad lines are the ones who bust. The guys like Roethlisberger who break out their rookie year played behind pretty solid lines.

But even the "smart" moves don't always work out. Our O-line sucks. Our QB sucked. We had the worst pass rush in the history of football. There's just an overwhelming amount of crap to fix.

Mecca
08-29-2009, 09:15 PM
If I had drafted Sanchez I most likely wouldn't have played him this year...you don't get that option with Cassel.

BigMeatballDave
08-29-2009, 09:15 PM
And NONE upgraded the line...:rolleyes:

Mecca
08-29-2009, 09:18 PM
Well it was pretty obvious upgrading the line wasn't put in as a prime thing to do.

It probably should have been the same as you don't set up top 5 picks to fail at QB you shouldn't set up a guy you traded for and paid to fail.

BigMeatballDave
08-29-2009, 09:19 PM
You can sure try. The Chiefs didn't which shocked me. Especially when you consider that our OL has sucked for the past couple of seasons.There are different OL here. I'm sure they concentrate on this next season. Its going to take some time. I will be bitching if nothing is done then.

MadMax
08-29-2009, 09:20 PM
Why did they pay Pioli millions when they could get Mecca for $8 an hour?



Politics?

Mecca
08-29-2009, 09:21 PM
The Chiefs OL is the same guys aside from a 35 year old guard and some scrubs from Miami...

I don't think that is adequately addressing the line in the same year you decided go go get your "franchise QB".

BigMeatballDave
08-29-2009, 09:23 PM
The Chiefs OL is the same guys aside from a 35 year old guard and some scrubs from Miami...

I don't think that is adequately addressing the line in the same year you decided go go get your "franchise QB".What good FA OL were available this past FA period? Seriously. I don't remember.

Mecca
08-29-2009, 09:25 PM
What good FA OL were available this past FA period? Seriously. I don't remember.

Well lets see...the Rams signed the dude from the Ravens, his name escapes me..Ray Willis was out there and signed back with Seattle pretty cheaply.

They had numerous opportunity to take a couple of well regarded college lineman that had fallen in the draft yet passed.

UsualSuspects
08-29-2009, 09:31 PM
Well it was pretty obvious upgrading the line wasn't put in as a prime thing to do.

It probably should have been the same as you don't set up top 5 picks to fail at QB you shouldn't set up a guy you traded for and paid to fail.

I call BS.

They always upgrade usually. Not all at once? Fuck it then. And true fans are impatient.

Loser, call everyone else out but you was different? Guess not. Just call as I see.

wild1
08-29-2009, 09:32 PM
I have questions about your medication profile, as well as your parentage.

UsualSuspects
08-29-2009, 09:34 PM
Well lets see...the Rams signed the dude from the Ravens, his name escapes me..Ray Willis was out there and signed back with Seattle pretty cheaply.

They had numerous opportunity to take a couple of well regarded college lineman that had fallen in the draft yet passed.

Fallen according to you, I hope you get hired but doubt it.

Moms basement does not count I bet.

Wow a GC wanta be. How sad is that?

Mecca
08-29-2009, 09:35 PM
I call BS.

They always upgrade usually. Not all at once? Fuck it then. And true fans are impatient.

Loser, call everyone else out but you was different? Guess not. Just call as I see.

What the fuck are you talking about?

I really wish people could make sense when they speak.

Mecca
08-29-2009, 09:36 PM
Fallen according to you, I hope you get hired but doubt it.

Moms basement does not count I bet.

Wow a GC wanta be. How sad is that?

Oh it must be smed...either that or you want to be smed.

Smed and Simply Red honestly when they post I have no idea what they're talking about so if you aren't one of them you're right there with them.

Bwana
08-29-2009, 09:38 PM
Fallen according to you, I hope you get hired but doubt it.

Moms basement does not count I bet.

Wow a GC wanta be. How sad is that?

WTH? Are you drinking paint thinner shots this evening? :hmmm:

TEX
08-29-2009, 09:38 PM
There are different OL here. I'm sure they concentrate on this next season. Its going to take some time. I will be bitching if nothing is done then.

I hear ya. My point is that everyone knows that this line has sucked for the better part of two years now. If you're gonna make the decision to get your franchise QB - you do more in the offseason to protect him than the Chiefs did. Period.

Mecca
08-29-2009, 09:39 PM
WTH? Are you drinking paint thinner shots this evening? :hmmm:

I think it's Smed by another name...

DaneMcCloud
08-29-2009, 09:40 PM
Billay,

I've been very disappointed with the front office in regards to the offensive line since free-agency begin and with the draft. Say what you will guys about the sucky defense but the Chiefs don't have a $63 million dollar player to protect on that side of the ball.

It was a major mistake to take Magee, then Washington, then Brown when viable offensive lineman were available at those spots.

Oh well...

Baconeater
08-29-2009, 09:40 PM
Oh it must be smed...either that or you want to be smed.

Smed and Simply Red honestly when they post I have no idea what they're talking about so if you aren't one of them you're right there with them.
He either is Smed, or he's on the same drugs Smed is on.

Bwana
08-29-2009, 09:41 PM
I hear ya. My point is that everyone knows that this line has sucked for the better part of two years now. If you're gonna make the decision to get your franchise QB - you do more in the offseason to protect him than the Chiefs did. Period.

It would seem to be a no brainer.

Mecca
08-29-2009, 09:42 PM
The Chiefs had the chance to use 2nd day picks on Duke Robinson and Jamon Meredith I still can't believe they didn't do that.

DaneMcCloud
08-29-2009, 09:44 PM
The Chiefs had the chance to use 2nd day picks on Duke Robinson and Jamon Meredith I still can't believe they didn't do that.

Exactly.

IMO, take either Magee or Jackson. Don't take both when your offensive line is the worst in the entire league.

Especially when Dorsey, your #5 from the previous year, plays the same spot.

Mecca
08-29-2009, 09:45 PM
If you had told anyone before the draft the Chiefs could have had Robinson and Meredith with their 4th and 5th round selections and didn't do that and even took Colin Brown instead with one of the picks.....imagine the reaction you'd have gotten.

The Bad Guy
08-29-2009, 09:47 PM
Can someone shoot this stupid bastard?

Mecca
08-29-2009, 09:47 PM
You'd have to shoot Smed first.

MadMax
08-29-2009, 09:49 PM
The Chiefs OL is the same guys aside from a 35 year old guard and some scrubs from Miami...

I don't think that is adequately addressing the line in the same year you decided go go get your "franchise QB".



Sounds eerily similar to Carl doesn't it? Same ol shit

'Hamas' Jenkins
08-29-2009, 11:11 PM
One of the best things Bill Simmons ever said was that every team needs a VP of common sense. Putting the QB debate aside, Cassel was their guy, they were obviously committed to him. At the same time, this regime puts a lot of emphasis on the D-Line, but they had to look at that O-Line and realize that it could only protect and "run block" from the pistol last year...which basically means it couldn't do either.

Looking back, if the Chiefs were so dead set on Cassel, and they really wanted to upgrade the D-Line, why not take this approach:

Raji/Jackson
Cassel
Magee
Luigs
Meredith

And they still had 3 picks to spend on their pet projects in the late rounds.

Sometimes, I think sports franchises get so preoccupied with deking other franchises that they do the most illogical thing rather than just making sensible moves.

Mecca
08-29-2009, 11:13 PM
Sports is full of front office people who have worked in the league for to long. Guys who have been doing the shit for so long all common sense has been lost all rational thinking is gone. Guys who really think they are smarter than everyone else and don't logically look at things..

This is rampant in every sport, baseball more than any other.

Chocolate Hog
08-30-2009, 01:03 AM
Billay,

I've been very disappointed with the front office in regards to the offensive line since free-agency begin and with the draft. Say what you will guys about the sucky defense but the Chiefs don't have a $63 million dollar player to protect on that side of the ball.

It was a major mistake to take Magee, then Washington, then Brown when viable offensive lineman were available at those spots.

Oh well...

Yup and I've been a staunch Pioli supporter but look at how shitty the o-line has played and its amazing that only a few members on here will say anything about it. I guess the others will come along when the media starts to point it out. Pioli is good at finding talent, however he should have found some talent for his 63 million dollar franchise Quarterback.

Just Passin' By
08-30-2009, 01:10 AM
Yup and I've been a staunch Pioli supporter but look at how shitty the o-line has played and its amazing that only a few members on here will say anything about it. I guess the others will come along when the media starts to point it out. Pioli is good at finding talent, however he should have found some talent for his 63 million dollar franchise Quarterback.

Out of 52 players on this roster (Gonzalez needed to be traded for the good of the future, despite his still being a quality player, and he'd said he planned to retire in a couple of years) when Pioli took over, exactly how many did you honestly think were talented enough to be quality starters on this team 2-3 years down the line?

When you realize that the number was fewer than 10, and probably fewer than 5, perhaps you can understand why not everything could be done at once. The quarterback was available this year, so he grabbed him while he could, since you don't wait on that position if you feel you can get a good one. The rest will happen over time. In the meantime, the team will look to the waiver wire for depth and possible upgrades.

I was surprised that Pioli didn't go after Hochstein from the Patriots, but McDaniels grabbed him, so it may have been a "first come, first serve" situation.

Chocolate Hog
08-30-2009, 01:13 AM
Out of 52 players on this roster (Gonzalez needed to be traded for the good of the future, despite his still being a quality player, and he'd said he planned to retire in a couple of years) when Pioli took over, exactly how many did you honestly think were talented enough to be quality starters on this team 2-3 years down the line?

When you realize that the number was fewer than 10, and probably fewer than 5, perhaps you can understand why not everything could be done at once. The quarterback was available this year, so he grabbed him while he could, since you don't wait on that position if you feel you can get a good one. The rest will happen over time. In the meantime, the team will look to the waiver wire for depth and possible upgrades.

I was surprised that Pioli didn't go after Hochstein from the Patriots, but McDaniels grabbed him, so it may have been a "first come, first serve" situation.


I think ya'll have been trained by Carl Peterson to think not everything can be done in a year. If your GM can't find a servicable Center or Right Tackle that says alot. This team won't be a contender 2-3 years down the road if its franchise QB is rehabing from a knee injury.

Just Passin' By
08-30-2009, 01:22 AM
I think ya'll have been trained by Carl Peterson to think not everything can be done in a year. If your GM can't find a servicable Center or Right Tackle that says alot. This team won't be a contender 2-3 years down the road if its franchise QB is rehabing from a knee injury.

No team does everything in a year. It doesn't happen. The Chiefs may have had the worst roster in the NFL when Peterson and Herm got the axe, and that will take years to deal with. As for the right tackle and center claim, it's just a ridiculous expectation to think that the team should follow your particular prescription for rebuilding.

Chocolate Hog
08-30-2009, 01:28 AM
No team does everything in a year. It doesn't happen. The Chiefs may have had the worst roster in the NFL when Peterson and Herm got the axe, and that will take years to deal with. As for the right tackle and center claim, it's just a ridiculous expectation to think that the team should follow your particular prescription for rebuilding.

Bullshit. The Dolphins upgraded there O-line last year by drafting Long and signing Smiley. They didn't even have a franchise Quarterback either.

Just Passin' By
08-30-2009, 01:29 AM
Bullshit. The Dolphins upgraded there O-line last year by drafting Long and signing Smiley. They didn't even have a franchise Quarterback either.

Who gives a shit what the Dolphins did? They were a different team. The Chiefs upgraded the defensive line by drafting Jackson. They already had a left tackle. And, I haven't seen a 'Chad Pennington' situation develop with a center or right tackle in the past could of weeks, have you?

Frankly, if you want to evaluate the Dolphins based upon the draft and their needs at that time, they screwed up. They should have taken Ryan. The Favre situation changed everything.

Chocolate Hog
08-30-2009, 01:31 AM
Who gives a shit what the Dolphins did? They were a different team. The Chiefs upgraded the defensive line by drafting Jackson. They already had a left tackle. And, I haven't seen a 'Chad Pennington' situation develop with a center or right tackle in the past could of weeks, have you?

You're a fucking moron. You said teams can't improve a position in a year and I jsut gave you an example of how the Dolphins upgraded the o-line in a season. It has nothing to do with Chad Pennington.

Just Passin' By
08-30-2009, 01:32 AM
You're a ****ing moron. You said teams can't improve a position in a year and I jsut gave you an example of how the Dolphins upgraded the o-line in a season. It has nothing to do with Chad Pennington.

Actually, that's not what I said. You should either learn how to read or just shut the fuck up.

Chocolate Hog
08-30-2009, 01:33 AM
Actually, that's not what I said. You should either learn how to read or just shut the **** up.

blah blah blah blah blah or we could just put in thigpen cuz he almost won games!!1!

SPchief
08-30-2009, 02:05 AM
You're a ****ing moron. You said teams can't improve a position in a year and I jsut gave you an example of how the Dolphins upgraded the o-line in a season. It has nothing to do with Chad Pennington.

I believe he said you can't fix everything in one offseason

SPchief
08-30-2009, 02:06 AM
blah blah blah blah blah or we could just put in thigpen cuz he almost won games!!1!

What does that have to do with anything? And I absolutley loathe Thigpen

Mecca
08-30-2009, 02:40 AM
My line is still the same one I said right after the draft, you don't make a move to get your QB that you are saying this is our guy, then give him nothing to work with.

You are setting him up to fail.

B_Ambuehl
08-30-2009, 02:55 AM
What good FA OL were available this past FA period? Seriously. I don't remember.

Stacy Andrews, Matt Birk, Jake Grove, Orlando Pace, John Runyan

Maybe some are a bit long in the tooth but so are Zach Thomas, Engram, Vrabel, etc.

I think Clark Hunt really has a lot more responsibility in all this then people think. Ever since he took over things have gone to hell in a handbasket and inconsistencies in the overall theme of whats going on with personnel and direction of the club (younger? older?)have become the order of the day.

Mecca
08-30-2009, 02:56 AM
Stacy Andrews, Matt Birk, Jake Grove, Orlando Pace, John Runyan

Maybe some are a bit long in the tooth but so are Zach Thomas, Engram, Vrabel, etc.

I think Clark Hunt really has a lot more responsibility in all this then people think. Ever since he took over things have gone to hell in a handbasket and inconsistencies in the overall theme of whats going on with personnel and direction of the club (younger? older?)have become the order of the day.

Jason Brown was out there too, he would have signed if given the money seeing as he signed with the Rams.

Pioli Zombie
08-30-2009, 06:09 AM
We don't need Eugene Monroe, Albert is too expensive to play at another position. Remember that cheapskates?
Posted via Mobile Device

TFG
08-30-2009, 06:27 AM
Stacy Andrews, Matt Birk, Jake Grove, Orlando Pace, John Runyan

Maybe some are a bit long in the tooth but so are Zach Thomas, Engram, Vrabel, etc.

I think Clark Hunt really has a lot more responsibility in all this then people think. Ever since he took over things have gone to hell in a handbasket and inconsistencies in the overall theme of whats going on with personnel and direction of the club (younger? older?)have become the order of the day.



The FA OL class was garbage as usual. You have to score OLs from the Draft, even the "undrafted" portion of the Draft.

I really cannot believe that Clark Hunt is the one who wanted to trade for Cassel, to switch to a 3-4, and to ignore OL until Round 5. That was Pioli, who didn't come cheap himself.


Quality OLs in this Draft that Pioli failed to score:

Round
1. Monroe = DUH

5. Jamon Meredith

undrafted
Harris - tryout players do not get credited to the GM, who would have offered them an actual contract if said GM had any clue they were good at all
Edwin Williams
CJ Davis - likely a cut by Carolina because he has missed about four weeks with an ankle sprain


The "setting him up to fail" comment above is accurate.

beach tribe
08-30-2009, 07:36 AM
I seem to remember Trent Green going through the same thing.

IF Cassel is the guy that Pioli wanted, he had to get him right now, or else he would be in Denver, and we wouldn't be witnessing all the great stuff going on over there. There really wasn't a whole lot that could be done about the line, all though I do believe that they should have tried harder. I believe that next off-season it will be priority 1.

KCChiefsFan88
08-30-2009, 09:51 AM
I seem to remember Trent Green going through the same thing.

That is true, to an extent. The Chiefs made the trade for Trent Green and then essentially built up the offense around him the following offseason, (save for Priest Holmes who was acquired the same offseason that the trade for Trent took place).

The difference is the Chiefs were in a far better position be more aggressive in upgrading the talent around Cassel this offseason than they were during the 2001 offseason when Trent Geen was acquired (remember the Chiefs didn't have a first or second round pick in the 2001 draft and were in salary cap hell that offseason).

JASONSAUTO
08-30-2009, 09:59 AM
One of the best things Bill Simmons ever said was that every team needs a VP of common sense. Putting the QB debate aside, Cassel was their guy, they were obviously committed to him. At the same time, this regime puts a lot of emphasis on the D-Line, but they had to look at that O-Line and realize that it could only protect and "run block" from the pistol last year...which basically means it couldn't do either.

Looking back, if the Chiefs were so dead set on Cassel, and they really wanted to upgrade the D-Line, why not take this approach:

Raji/Jackson
Cassel
Magee
Luigs
Meredith

And they still had 3 picks to spend on their pet projects in the late rounds.

Sometimes, I think sports franchises get so preoccupied with deking other franchises that they do the most illogical thing rather than just making sensible moves.

good to see you back

milkman
08-30-2009, 10:00 AM
One of the best things Bill Simmons ever said was that every team needs a VP of common sense. Putting the QB debate aside, Cassel was their guy, they were obviously committed to him. At the same time, this regime puts a lot of emphasis on the D-Line, but they had to look at that O-Line and realize that it could only protect and "run block" from the pistol last year...which basically means it couldn't do either.

Looking back, if the Chiefs were so dead set on Cassel, and they really wanted to upgrade the D-Line, why not take this approach:

Raji/Jackson
Cassel
Magee
Luigs
Meredith

And they still had 3 picks to spend on their pet projects in the late rounds.

Sometimes, I think sports franchises get so preoccupied with deking other franchises that they do the most illogical thing rather than just making sensible moves.

This.

This team would be better on the O-Line if the Chiefs had done this.

The draft was a major head scratcher.

JuicesFlowing
08-30-2009, 10:04 AM
I seem to remember Trent Green going through the same thing.

IF Cassel is the guy that Pioli wanted, he had to get him right now, or else he would be in Denver, and we wouldn't be witnessing all the great stuff going on over there. There really wasn't a whole lot that could be done about the line, all though I do believe that they should have tried harder. I believe that next off-season it will be priority 1.

I agree with this. We needed a QB, and that's all there is to it. Would we rather have a "better" O-line with Thigpen or some stop-gap like Neckbeard? Pioli got his QB. It takes time to upgrade an entire team. Pioli chose the QB he wanted first, and I'm fine with that. I keep forgetting that all of these Planeteers are better GM's than Pioli.

DaneMcCloud
08-30-2009, 10:05 AM
I seem to remember Trent Green going through the same thing.


Not because of the offensive personnel or the offensive line.

Tait, Waters, Weigman, Shields & Riley are and were far superior to any lineup that could be pieced together on the current roster.

The Chiefs also had Derrick Alexander, Tony Gonzalez and Priest Holmes and still only managed to win 6 games, yet there are people here that think the 2009 Chiefs will meet or exceed that win total.

:shake:

milkman
08-30-2009, 10:09 AM
I agree with this. We needed a QB, and that's all there is to it. Would we rather have a "better" O-line with Thigpen or some stop-gap like Neckbeard? Pioli got his QB. It takes time to upgrade an entire team. Pioli chose the QB he wanted first, and I'm fine with that. I keep forgetting that all of these Planeteers are better GM's than Pioli.

Again, how do you ignore the O-Line almost altogether in the draft?

How is it you only take a plodding RT from a spread offense, and you take a project CB in the fourth in favor of a quality center prospect, and pass pretty good RT prospect in favor of a RT project (who you end up converting to guard)?

TEX
08-30-2009, 10:14 AM
I agree with this. We needed a QB, and that's all there is to it. Would we rather have a "better" O-line with Thigpen or some stop-gap like Neckbeard? Pioli got his QB. It takes time to upgrade an entire team. Pioli chose the QB he wanted first, and I'm fine with that. I keep forgetting that all of these Planeteers are better GM's than Pioli.

The deal is the Chiefs had the a TON of cap space and the entire draft to upgrade the OL to protect the franchise QB - and that's all there is to it...

Dayze
08-30-2009, 10:20 AM
Stupid much? Not 1 regular game played and the franchise QB already injured his knee cuz his shit O-line. Pay a QB to play behind a shitty o-line, nice logic doucherocket.

you definitely should submit your resume for the GM position. It's obviously a very elementary position that requires little experience or intelligence.

:spock:

Deberg_1990
08-30-2009, 10:26 AM
Again, how do you ignore the O-Line almost altogether in the draft?

How is it you only take a plodding RT from a spread offense, and you take a project CB in the fourth in favor of a quality center prospect, and pass pretty good RT prospect in favor of a RT project (who you end up converting to guard)?


My only guess is that at the time, Pioli and Haley thought that the O-line was more solid than it really is??

TFG
08-30-2009, 10:29 AM
My only guess is that at the time, Pioli and Haley thought that the O-line was more solid than it really is??



The first duty of both was to assess the talent on the roster and plan to upgrade it accordingly. If Pioli and Haley thought the C-ORG-ORT was just A-OK after watching last year...

chiefzilla1501
08-30-2009, 10:29 AM
My line is still the same one I said right after the draft, you don't make a move to get your QB that you are saying this is our guy, then give him nothing to work with.

You are setting him up to fail.

100% agree.

milkman
08-30-2009, 10:48 AM
My only guess is that at the time, Pioli and Haley thought that the O-line was more solid than it really is??

How could they possibly think that?

Just Passin' By
08-30-2009, 11:37 AM
Again, how do you ignore the O-Line almost altogether in the draft?

How is it you only take a plodding RT from a spread offense, and you take a project CB in the fourth in favor of a quality center prospect, and pass pretty good RT prospect in favor of a RT project (who you end up converting to guard)?

You take the CB because you're looking at the trends of the NFL. That's something that even some of the smarter and better posters here (I consider you one of them) might be overlooking. 3 quality cornerbacks is turning into an NFL must.

You take Brown because he's the best you see at that time (or you think he has the most potential), and he's a project just as every other o-lineman taken at that point in the draft is likely to be. You hope to find lightning in a bottle, but you realize that it's not likely to happen.

It's interesting to me that people are complaining about a draft where the first round pick looks great, the 2nd round pick brought in the team's QB, the 3rd round pick looks as if he might well pan out and become a starter sooner rather than later (possibly taking last year's "cant' miss" prospect and putting him on the bench in the process), the 4th round pick looks as if he's got all the potential in the world and the last pick looks as if he could become a pro-bowl type of player in the future. I don't know if that's because people overlook the crap shoot aspect of the draft, because the draft geeking gives them unreasonable expectations or because they've been so scarred by the previous regime.

Deberg_1990
08-30-2009, 11:39 AM
How could they possibly think that?

I agree...

But why did they mostly ignore the O-line in the draft then?

TFG
08-30-2009, 11:50 AM
You take the CB because you're looking at the trends of the NFL. That's something that even some of the smarter and better posters here (I consider you one of them) might be overlooking. 3 quality cornerbacks is turning into an NFL must.

You take Brown because he's the best you see at that time (or you think he has the most potential), and he's a project just as every other o-lineman taken at that point in the draft is likely to be. You hope to find lightning in a bottle, but you realize that it's not likely to happen.

It's interesting to me that people are complaining about a draft where the first round pick looks great, the 2nd round pick brought in the team's QB, the 3rd round pick looks as if he might well pan out and become a starter sooner rather than later (possibly taking last year's "cant' miss" prospect and putting him on the bench in the process), the 4th round pick looks as if he's got all the potential in the world and the last pick looks as if he could become a pro-bowl type of player in the future. I don't know if that's because people overlook the crap shoot aspect of the draft, because the draft geeking gives them unreasonable expectations or because they've been so scarred by the previous regime.



Oh get real. Three CBs is not anything "new" in the NFL. Pioli took what he thought was BPA (Best Player Available) after T-Jax and Magee (need picks for his switch to a 3-4). The best corner available at the top of round 4 was Brice McCain of Utah. You can see him start tomorrow night for the Texans. D-Wash wasn't even a starter at Ohio State. All he ever did to impress anyone was jump high.

There is an order to things. If you think parting with a high second rounder will land that "franchise QB" that's fine. But you cannot do that and just completely F### UP the assessment of the OLs on the roster. Cassel required good protection. Pioli and Haley started this offseason with 2 good OLs and garbage everywhere else. That's still the case assuming the Chiefs aren't going to start Darryl Harris anytime soon, and indeed may pull "Lilja II" and cut Harris.


In the end, you must be fair and realistic. Cheer all you want for Pioli, his "Pro Bowl Seventh Round K" did a lot of missing last year for the Chickens, and while T-Jackson is a good solid 3-4 DE who holds the point hard and pushes the pocket, a top 3 pick is really supposed to be more than that, because there are dozens who can do that, but only a small few who can pass block and run block as an NFL OT at a high level. T-Jackson vs. OT isn't close, even if Cassel is hopefully OK.

MichaelH
08-30-2009, 11:52 AM
What if he upgraded the O-line and we kept the same starting QB? Someone would get sand in their vag about that. It looks like they're not going to win that much this year but I feel the future is much brighter than with King Dickweed at the helm.

Simply Red
08-30-2009, 11:53 AM
Who spends all that money on a QB and doesn't upgrade the o-line? **** you.

repost

TFG
08-30-2009, 11:54 AM
What if he upgraded the O-line and we kept the same starting QB? Someone would get sand in their vag about that. It looks like they're not going to win that much this year but I feel the future is much brighter than with King Dickweed at the helm.



One might notice that the 2010 NFL Draft appears to be very strong at the top of the QB board...

McCoy
Tebow
Zac Robinson
possibly Bradford


I'd take any of those over any QB from 2009, including Cassel, who was available for a high second...

Just Passin' By
08-30-2009, 11:55 AM
Oh get real. Three CBs is not anything "new" in the NFL. Pioli took what he thought was BPA (Best Player Available) after T-Jax and Magee (need picks for his switch to a 3-4). The best corner available at the top of round 4 was Brice McCain of Utah. You can see him start tomorrow night for the Texans. D-Wash wasn't even a starter at Ohio State. All he ever did to impress anyone was jump high.

There is an order to things. If you think parting with a high second rounder will land that "franchise QB" that's fine. But you cannot do that and just completely F### UP the assessment of the OLs on the roster. Cassel required good protection. Pioli and Haley started this offseason with 2 good OLs and garbage everywhere else. That's still the case assuming the Chiefs aren't going to start Darryl Harris anytime soon, and indeed may pull "Lilja II" and cut Harris.


In the end, you must be fair and realistic. Cheer all you want for Pioli, his "Pro Bowl Seventh Round K" did a lot of missing last year for the Chickens, and while T-Jackson is a good solid 3-4 DE who holds the point hard and pushes the pocket, a top 3 pick is really supposed to be more than that, because there are dozens who can do that, but only a small few who can pass block and run block as an NFL OT at a high level. T-Jackson vs. OT isn't close, even if Cassel is hopefully OK.

Your opinion is noted.

However, here on planet Earth, teams are looking for 3 starting quality corners more than ever, due to the increase in the number of 3 and 4 receiver sets. It's what teams are doing to counter the Patriots and others who have all but eliminated the fullback position (New England's not even carrying one on the roster) in order to add more receivers into the mix.

As for your preferred CB, you may or may not be right down the road. That was not what I was responding to, however, as I think it's pretty idiotic to bitch about CB-1 v. CB-2 once you've gotten past the first 2 rounds. Once players get to round 3, there's usually a reason they've fallen that far.

As for the bitch about Jackson, I can only note that you're still an idiot, and leave it at that.

milkman
08-30-2009, 11:56 AM
You take the CB because you're looking at the trends of the NFL. That's something that even some of the smarter and better posters here (I consider you one of them) might be overlooking. 3 quality cornerbacks is turning into an NFL must.

You take Brown because he's the best you see at that time (or you think he has the most potential), and he's a project just as every other o-lineman taken at that point in the draft is likely to be. You hope to find lightning in a bottle, but you realize that it's not likely to happen.

It's interesting to me that people are complaining about a draft where the first round pick looks great, the 2nd round pick brought in the team's QB, the 3rd round pick looks as if he might well pan out and become a starter sooner rather than later (possibly taking last year's "cant' miss" prospect and putting him on the bench in the process), the 4th round pick looks as if he's got all the potential in the world and the last pick looks as if he could become a pro-bowl type of player in the future. I don't know if that's because people overlook the crap shoot aspect of the draft, because the draft geeking gives them unreasonable expectations or because they've been so scarred by the previous regime.

I get that.

But we have a trio of solid young corners.

The fact is, Niswanger is still a project, and Luigs is a more advanced project already (as is Eric Wood, who was taken in the fifth round, I believe).

If we're starting a project, I'd rather draft and start the one that has more upside.

TFG
08-30-2009, 11:58 AM
Yes, teams were cutting back on corners when Warren Moon and the Houston Oilers started 4 WRs...


Just stick the thumb back in the mouth and remember that you are parroting "Pioli knows better than you do" because you personally know absolutely nothing about football and the NFL Draft except how to parrot "Pioli knows better than you do."

milkman
08-30-2009, 12:00 PM
One might notice that the 2010 NFL Draft appears to be very strong at the top of the QB board...

McCoy
Tebow
Zac Robinson
possibly Bradford


I'd take any of those over any QB from 2009, including Cassel, who was available for a high second...

Yeah. Okay.

I wouldn't touch any of those QBs, with the possible exception of Bradford, who would have to spend a year or two adjusting to a pro set.

TFG
08-30-2009, 12:01 PM
If Niswanger is "still a project" then he must be Federally funded, because no other entity would tolerate such failure for so long...

Eric Wood went Round 1 to Buff and is starting at OG, if not exactly impressing. He has a "too high" problem and I don't know if he can correct it. Otherwise, he's a pretty good prospect taken two or three rounds too high.

Luigs is stiff. I had an undrafted grade on him.

Just Passin' By
08-30-2009, 12:02 PM
I get that.

But we have a trio of solid young corners.

The fact is, Niswanger is still a project, and Luigs is a more advanced project already (as is Eric Wood, who was taken in the fifth round, I believe).

If we're starting a project, I'd rather draft and start the one that has more upside.

I understand your preference. I just think it ignores the G.M. you're looking at, and his draft history. New England builds around the D-line, and the K.C. D-line sucked. It needed a complete overhaul. I'm actually a bit surprised that Dorsey is still in K.C., and I can only guess that it's because of his contract and the inability to get fair value in a trade return.

It would not shock me to see this team shell out big money, either in free agency or with the first round pick, for a nose tackle in the upcoming offseason. It's just how Pioli has done it in the past.

Also, I fully expect Pioli to pounce on any O-lineman he thinks is worth a damn once final cuts are made throughout the league.

Just Passin' By
08-30-2009, 12:04 PM
Yes, teams were cutting back on corners when Warren Moon and the Houston Oilers started 4 WRs...


Just stick the thumb back in the mouth and remember that you are parroting "Pioli knows better than you do" because you personally know absolutely nothing about football and the NFL Draft except how to parrot "Pioli knows better than you do."

Good point, because the Run-n-Shoot was being run by Moon and company right up until last year.

milkman
08-30-2009, 12:04 PM
If Niswanger is "still a project" then he must be Federally funded, because no other entity would tolerate such failure for so long...

Eric Wood went Round 1 to Buff and is starting at OG, if not exactly impressing. He has a "too high" problem and I don't know if he can correct it. Otherwise, he's a pretty good prospect taken two or three rounds too high.

Luigs is stiff. I had an undrafted grade on him.

Niswanger is still a project because the coaches in the past have failed him.

As I said, it's clear that Muir finally corrected his technical flaw, one I've been commenting on for a couple of years.

I'm not sure at this point if it can become more natural and something he doesn't constantly think about.

milkman
08-30-2009, 12:07 PM
I understand your preference. I just think it ignores the G.M. you're looking at, and his draft history. New England builds around the D-line, and the K.C. D-line sucked. It needed a complete overhaul. I'm actually a bit surprised that Dorsey is still in K.C., and I can only guess that it's because of his contract and the inability to get fair value in a trade return.

It would not shock me to see this team shell out big money, either in free agency or with the first round pick, for a nose tackle in the upcoming offseason. It's just how Pioli has done it in the past.

Also, I fully expect Pioli to pounce on any O-lineman he thinks is worth a damn once final cuts are made throughout the league.

No, it doesn't ignore his history of building around the D-Line, since we are debating the merits of taking a center as opposed to a CB in the fourth, and taking a more natural RT than Colin Brown in the fifth.

Inspector
08-30-2009, 12:08 PM
I understand the frustration but I don't think anyone reasonably thought this could be fixed in one draft / off season.

It's like getting fat, takes time to get back in shape.

Patience.....

kcfanXIII
08-30-2009, 12:12 PM
i'm disappointed we didn't upgrade the line more, but even with goff declining in ability, i think its more a sign that his talent around him sucks. think, to the left he has rudy, and to the right is a scrub, no matter who they put in. waters play dropped off when roaf left, and then picked back up a bit when he got a guy like albert playing next to him. an upgrade at rt would help goff out tremndously.

Chocolate Hog
08-30-2009, 12:13 PM
Niswanger is still a project because the coaches in the past have failed him.

As I said, it's clear that Muir finally corrected his technical flaw, one I've been commenting on for a couple of years.

I'm not sure at this point if it can become more natural and something he doesn't constantly think about.

Good thing the Chiefs are experimenting with a center and paying a QB 63 mil lol. Niswanger is nothing more then a backup center, like most of the other offensive linemen.

Just Passin' By
08-30-2009, 12:13 PM
No, it doesn't ignore his history of building around the D-Line, since we are debating the merits of taking a center as opposed to a CB in the fourth, and taking a more natural RT than Colin Brown in the fifth.

I meant the general approach, rather than the specifics. I should have been more clear, so my apologies for that.

The reality is that, whether people like it or not, teams will draft according to their board and reasoning, and not according to the whims of people on a message board: and for damned good reason. Washington, for example, is a pick that Mecca was fine with and you're criticizing. Unless a GM hits at 100% all the time, there will always be some messageboard geek who can pull out a "See, I wanted!" thread and feel as is he was superior. It's just the nature of the beast.

The key isn't for a team to be right all the time. It's for a team to be right enough of the time. Thus far, this draft looks very good for the Chiefs, and I think people should be looking at that rather than complaining because their particular preferences weren't followed to the letter.

Just as a F'rinstance, I wanted Clady last season, and Oher and Sean Smith this season. I'd still be thrilled with those picks, but I can't exactly complain with Mayo, Chung, Butler, Vollmer and Brace. It's really just a matter of how much faith/trust you have in your front office.

milkman
08-30-2009, 12:28 PM
i'm disappointed we didn't upgrade the line more, but even with goff declining in ability, i think its more a sign that his talent around him sucks. think, to the left he has rudy, and to the right is a scrub, no matter who they put in. waters play dropped off when roaf left, and then picked back up a bit when he got a guy like albert playing next to him. an upgrade at rt would help goff out tremndously.

I would buy into the "Goff's play suffered" because of the players around him excuse, except that Niswanger's play noticibly less putrid when Allenby and Ndukwe enetered the game.

Jerm
08-30-2009, 12:28 PM
Wow didn't take long...3 games into the preseason.

Fire em all...right now lol.

Jesus.

milkman
08-30-2009, 12:29 PM
I meant the general approach, rather than the specifics. I should have been more clear, so my apologies for that.

The reality is that, whether people like it or not, teams will draft according to their board and reasoning, and not according to the whims of people on a message board: and for damned good reason. Washington, for example, is a pick that Mecca was fine with and you're criticizing. Unless a GM hits at 100% all the time, there will always be some messageboard geek who can pull out a "See, I wanted!" thread and feel as is he was superior. It's just the nature of the beast.

The key isn't for a team to be right all the time. It's for a team to be right enough of the time. Thus far, this draft looks very good for the Chiefs, and I think people should be looking at that rather than complaining because their particular preferences weren't followed to the letter.

Just as a F'rinstance, I wanted Clady last season, and Oher and Sean Smith this season. I'd still be thrilled with those picks, but I can't exactly complain with Mayo, Chung, Butler, Vollmer and Brace. It's really just a matter of how much faith/trust you have in your front office.

That's what these message forums are for, spouting our dumbass opinions.

And I'm full of dumbass opinions.

Raised On Riots
08-30-2009, 02:27 PM
Who spends all that money on a QB and doesn't upgrade the o-line? Fuck you.

You knew this was coming. Everyone did. Yeah, it sucks ass, but cuts are coming so we might end up with better or at least serviceable personnel.

Chin up, camper.:D

DaneMcCloud
08-30-2009, 03:16 PM
If Niswanger is "still a project" then he must be Federally funded, because no other entity would tolerate such failure for so long...

Eric Wood went Round 1 to Buff and is starting at OG, if not exactly impressing. He has a "too high" problem and I don't know if he can correct it. Otherwise, he's a pretty good prospect taken two or three rounds too high.

Luigs is stiff. I had an undrafted grade on him.

I had Wood in the third and was shocked to see he was taken in the first.

DaneMcCloud
08-30-2009, 03:19 PM
I would buy into the "Goff's play suffered" because of the players around him excuse, except that Niswanger's play noticibly less putrid when Allenby and Ndukwe enetered the game.

I noticed this as well last night. Granted, I was drinking and chatting and not "grading out" performances last night. But the offensive line "appeared" to be much more sturdy with Allemen & NDukwe and it seemed instantly noticeable.

I hope that on second viewing, that wasn't an illusion.

Mecca
08-30-2009, 03:21 PM
Why is it whenever people don't like something Pioli did Just Passin by will defend him to the hilt and call people message board geeks?

He should probably stop taking part since he is well a message board geek at this point.

Raised On Riots
08-30-2009, 03:31 PM
Why is it whenever people don't like something Pioli did Just Passin by will defend him to the hilt and call people message board geeks?


Because Just Pissing Herpes is Pioli's mistress.

Just Passin' By
08-30-2009, 04:07 PM
Why is it whenever people don't like something Pioli did Just Passin by will defend him to the hilt and call people message board geeks?

He should probably stop taking part since he is well a message board geek at this point.

I wasn't insulting message board geeks, and I wasn't claiming not to be one. It was just a term for those posting on messageboard.

As for "defending" Pioli, I've essentially called for waiting until the team has a chance to play actual games before bashing the man who won 3 Executive of the Year awards this decade. It's not my fault that you're such an arrogant prick that you think you know better than every personnel man who's ever lived and can't handle the idea that the rest of the world doesn't immediately agree with you.

Just Passin' By
08-30-2009, 04:07 PM
Because Just Pissing Herpes is Pioli's mistress.

Says the poster who walks around with Mecca's nuts in his throat...

Raised On Riots
08-30-2009, 04:11 PM
Why is it whenever people don't like something Pioli did Just Passin by will defend him to the hilt and call people message board geeks?

He should probably stop taking part since he is well a message board geek at this point.

Hey Mecca, quick question:

How often do you and I post back and forth each month? Maybe two, three times tops?

Just Pissing Herpes seems to be under the impression that you and I are BFF's.

I know, he's a dipshit; just play along please.

chiefzilla1501
08-30-2009, 04:16 PM
I had Wood in the third and was shocked to see he was taken in the first.

Wow, a little excited about the draft, are we?

TFG
08-30-2009, 05:00 PM
I had Wood in the third and was shocked to see he was taken in the first.


That's because the OG situation was THAT WEAK in this 09 Draft. Urbik is in danger of getting cut in Pitt because he just sukks, not that anyone ahead of him is actually good. He was a Third Round OG from the 09 class. The two giant stiffs a top every "guru's" board, Duke and Herman, both sukk. Duke plays too high and got just used against UF. Herman has a huge problem getting out of his stance as an OG, something that could be helped if he didn't crouch like an OG - ie move to OT and have his hands at his hips. Neither was a good OG prospect at all, and both are seriously stupid.

Once again, the 2009 TFG OG board

Alex Mack
Darryl Harris

ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

TFG
08-30-2009, 05:03 PM
Wow, a little excited about the draft, are we?


There are "historical comparisons" for First Round OGs like Wood, such as Steve Hutchinson. A First Round OG prospect is supposed to be Steve Hutchinson, or at least Ben Grubbs late. Wood isn't even close to that level. Wood doesn't have power and is a tad stiff and upright, and gets overpowered because of that.

By historical standards, Wood was, at best, a Third Rounder.

chiefzilla1501
08-30-2009, 05:04 PM
There are "historical comparisons" for First Round OGs like Wood, such as Steve Hutchinson. A First Round OG prospect is supposed to be Steve Hutchinson, or at least Ben Grubbs late. Wood isn't even close to that level. Wood doesn't have power and is a tad stiff and upright, and gets overpowered because of that.

By historical standards, Wood was, at best, a Third Rounder.

While true, it doesn't explain why Dane got a boner from watching the third round of the draft.

TFG
08-30-2009, 05:06 PM
What is wrong with watching the Draft?

The Draft is the most important weekend of each and every season, where destiny is created. To win in the NFL, you need talent, health, and coaching. If you don't have talent, the other two aren't going to matter much...

Mecca
08-30-2009, 05:06 PM
Watching the draft as a Chiefs fan is just infuriating.

milkman
08-30-2009, 05:07 PM
What is wrong with watching the Draft?

The Draft is the most important weekend of each and every season, where destiny is created. To win in the NFL, you need talent, health, and coaching. If you don't have talent, the other two aren't going to matter much...

Wow.......:banghead:

JASONSAUTO
08-30-2009, 06:15 PM
One might notice that the 2010 NFL Draft appears to be very strong at the top of the QB board...

McCoy
Tebow
Zac Robinson
possibly Bradford


I'd take any of those over any QB from 2009, including Cassel, who was available for a high second...

STFU how many spread qbs have mad it in the nfl? and teeeebow is a fb/ chiefs planet

TFG
08-30-2009, 06:55 PM
STFU how many spread qbs have mad it in the nfl? and teeeebow is a fb/ chiefs planet


There is no denying that Tebow's play in the UF offense has hurt his Draft status because of scheme, and the ridiculous number of hits he takes.

There is no way to deny that on every measure - arm, leadership, toughness, athleticism, mobility - Tebow is an awesome prospect.

The question is WHATS THE DEAL? Tebow could have come out early. Did Tebow get Urban to agree to install MORE of a PRO STYLE OFFENSE in exchange for Tebow staying????


We'll know soon enough. Tebow needs many more snaps from C and standard pocket passes to get a high NFL grade. But Tebow is an unreal prospect with a 45 yard lazer and great throwing mechanics.

DaneMcCloud
08-30-2009, 07:39 PM
That's because the OG situation was THAT WEAK in this 09 Draft. Urbik is in danger of getting cut in Pitt because he just sukks, not that anyone ahead of him is actually good.

I liked some of your earlier takes on line play but are you high? Pittsburgh's not going to cut a third round pick like Urbick after his first training camp. He's a smart, bright kid from Wisconsin who stays out of trouble. While he may not be ready to step in and start in Pittsburgh, he's hardly in danger of being waived. That would be asinine and the Steelers don't roll that way.

That being said, if he were to be waived, I guarantee the Lions, Rams and Chiefs put a waiver claim in on him.

But there's no way that happens.

dirk digler
08-30-2009, 07:45 PM
Interesting thread. I remember on draft weekend I caught alot of flack from certain draft gurus when I was bitching up and down about the Chiefs not drafting any O-Line. Picks 2-5 should have been all O-Line as long as it wasn't a huge reach. But hey what do I know.

TFG
08-30-2009, 07:52 PM
"He's a smart, bright kid from Wisconsin who stays out of trouble"


Yes, but he is also stiff, slow footed, and doesn't play with the power his size suggests.

milkman
08-30-2009, 07:52 PM
Interesting thread. I remember on draft weekend I caught alot of flack from certain draft gurus when I was bitching up and down about the Chiefs not drafting any O-Line. Picks 2-5 should have been all O-Line as long as it wasn't a huge reach. But hey what do I know.

I hardly doubt it was the draft gurus, since the draft gurus went into this drfat thinking it should be O-Line heavy, and that next year's draft would be a great defensive draft.

TFG
08-30-2009, 07:59 PM
Interesting thread. I remember on draft weekend I caught alot of flack from certain draft gurus when I was bitching up and down about the Chiefs not drafting any O-Line. Picks 2-5 should have been all O-Line as long as it wasn't a huge reach. But hey what do I know.


It doesn't work that way. The NFL Draft gives you what it has. The pick for Cassel wouldn't have landed a really top OL (save Darryl Harris). The best two values there were Everette Brown and Ron Brace. You often go five Drafts in a row without getting the chance at a Eugene Monroe caliber OT. In this Draft, if you whiffed on Alex Mack and had no clue about Darryl Harris and somehow were dumb enough to ding C Edwin Williams for his 40, you were plumb out of luck on the interior OL. Jamon Meredith has some questions about why he wasn't the player he was as a SOPH during the past two years. The Jamon Meredith sophmore was a First Rounder. The guy last year struggled with an ankle and clashed with Spurrier.

Hence, this 09 interior class was unbelievably shallow, which is why the reaches were made. The OT class was strong at the top with decent depth, but past Oher it got much more difficult. William Beatty hasn't looked good. Britton isn't starting over sukky Pashos.

Raised On Riots
08-30-2009, 08:11 PM
I hardly doubt it was the draft gurus, since the draft gurus went into this drfat thinking it should be O-Line heavy, and that next year's draft would be a great defensive draft.

I seem to recall the same thing.

DeezNutz
08-30-2009, 08:20 PM
I hardly doubt it was the draft gurus, since the draft gurus went into this drfat thinking it should be O-Line heavy, and that next year's draft would be a great defensive draft.

Yep.

dirk digler
08-30-2009, 08:29 PM
Yep.

Just in time

Cassel is going to get killed111ohnoes1111

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5712873&postcount=3443

:D

DeezNutz
08-30-2009, 08:30 PM
Just in time



http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5712873&postcount=3443

:D

Oh noes111

Fucking 4th round, Pioli111311 lollalsararzzzl

dirk digler
08-30-2009, 08:33 PM
Oh noes111

Fucking 4th round, Pioli111311 lollalsararzzzl

I have to give you credit you predicted even though you didn't realize it at the time.

CB is one of our strongest positions and they bypassed a ton of OL when they picked him. Stupid stupid stupid

DeezNutz
08-30-2009, 08:35 PM
I have to give you credit you predicted even though you didn't realize it at the time.

CB is one of our strongest positions and they bypassed a ton of OL when they picked him. Stupid stupid stupid

Yeah, obviously I was whipping shit on some of the overreactions. That said, if I'd known that we weren't going to touch the O-line, outside of Charlie Brown, that post would have been different.

dirk digler
08-30-2009, 08:36 PM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5712889&postcount=3453

I like how not taking OL will cause a freak out every year.

yeah because we have the worst OL in the NFL and we get our QB's killed routinely.

I will give Mecca credit though near the end of the draft thread he said he wished we would have drafted more OL. I just like messing with you Mecca.

Raised On Riots
08-30-2009, 08:41 PM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5712889&postcount=3453



yeah because we have the worst OL in the NFL and we get our QB's killed routinely.

I will give Mecca credit though near the end of the draft thread he said he wished we would have drafted more OL. I just like messing with you Mecca.

I just like the fact that Hootie looks like even more of a dumbass in the draft thread now.

Mecca
08-30-2009, 09:14 PM
On the 2nd day there were 3 players I wanted the Chiefs to draft...Duke Robinson, Jamon Meredith and Dannell Elerbee we see what 2 of them play...

Chocolate Hog
08-30-2009, 09:43 PM
lol you should see the morons who negative repped me cuz I questioned Pioli.

DaneMcCloud
08-30-2009, 09:49 PM
lol you should see the morons who negative repped me cuz I questioned Pioli.

You?

Don't you remember draft day, when I had a complete meltdown because the Chiefs didn't draft a lineman until the 5th round and it was Colin FUCKING Brown?

Gonzo
08-30-2009, 09:50 PM
I personally think that we're reading too much into yesterday's performance. Thigpen is obviously not the answer but they had to give him a shot. They probably didn't want Croyle to get hurt either. This is a very young team with some talent, a new coaching staff and a new GM. We can't expect this thing to be turned around overnight. 6 wins would be a hell of a year IMO.
Posted via Mobile Device

DaneMcCloud
08-30-2009, 09:53 PM
I personally think that we're reading too much into yesterday's performance. Thigpen is obviously not the answer but they had to give him a shot. They probably didn't want Croyle to get hurt either. This is a very young team with some talent, a new coaching staff and a new GM. We can't expect this thing to be turned around overnight. 6 wins would be a hell of a year IMO.
Posted via Mobile Device

4 wins would qualify Haley for coach of the year.

The Chiefs will seriously flirt with 0-16.

Chocolate Hog
08-30-2009, 09:54 PM
You?

Don't you remember draft day, when I had a complete meltdown because the Chiefs didn't draft a lineman until the 5th round and it was Colin ****ING Brown?

No dude I stayed far away from here on draft day.

DaneMcCloud
08-30-2009, 09:55 PM
No dude I stayed far away from here on draft day.

Well, don't do that next year.

Man up, Fucker.

:D

Chocolate Hog
08-30-2009, 09:58 PM
Well, don't do that next year.

Man up, ****er.

:D

lol don't you remember the harsh shit we'd say to eachother? The reason I made this thread obviously was Cassel got hurt and I really believe in the guy. I would love to see what he would do with an o-line but we won't get to see that this year anyway, and next year there will be even more holes. A NT, 3 Linebackers, WR, ect.

DaneMcCloud
08-30-2009, 10:01 PM
lol don't you remember the harsh shit we'd say to eachother? The reason I made this thread obviously was Cassel got hurt and I really believe in the guy. I would love to see what he would do with an o-line but we won't get to see that this year anyway, and next year there will be even more holes. A NT, 3 Linebackers, WR, ect.

Ah, it's all bullshit. Anyone that takes our football "bar talk" beyond this forum has serious mental problems. As much as many of us get crazy in this forum, attack each and whatnot, I'm betting that 99% of these dudes are a blast to hang out with.

It's just that we're all passionate Chiefs fans with varying opinions on how to right this shithole of a football team.

Raised On Riots
08-30-2009, 10:02 PM
Well, don't do that next year.

Man up, Fucker.

:D

I think he's got the right idea; we'll never get anyone we covet from here on out I'm pretty damned sure.

KcMizzou
08-30-2009, 10:02 PM
Ah, it's all bullshit. Anyone that takes our football "bar talk" beyond this forum has serious mental problems. As much as many of us get crazy in this forum, attack each and whatnot, I'm betting that 99% of these dudes are a blast to hang out with.

It's just that we're all passionate Chiefs fans with varying opinions on how to right this shithole of a football team.This is true.

Chocolate Hog
08-30-2009, 10:03 PM
Ah, it's all bullshit. Anyone that takes our football "bar talk" beyond this forum has serious mental problems. As much as many of us get crazy in this forum, attack each and whatnot, I'm betting that 99% of these dudes are a blast to hang out with.

It's just that we're all passionate Chiefs fans with varying opinions on how to right this shithole of a football team.

True. I played football with some guys on here before but I didn't really post much back then so I didn't have the reputation of being an asshole.