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View Full Version : Int'l Issues McCaskill's townhall in Springfield.


Direckshun
08-31-2009, 02:34 PM
You know, between Kansas City, Jeff City/Columbia and St. Louis, there isn't a lot of room for the Ozarks when it comes to national politics, and almost zero room for the Ozarks when it comes to state politics. And there is absolutely zero room for the Ozarks when we're talking about Democrats, because Democrats don't win in the Ozarks.

Slowly this is starting to change. As real estate continues to favor buyers more than sellers even moreso over the past year, Springfield has continued to see its population swell and now all of a sudden we're starting to look like a city. We're starting to look like we have an impact here.

Obama knew this, and campaigned here twice last year, including speaking at the JFK football stadium with tens of thousands with Ozarkers showing. That was two or three days before November 4th.

And McCaskill, like she does on most things, is riding Obama's coattails on the Ozarks: she scheduled her last townhall (of 10) at the Gillioz theatre in downtown Springfield. Granted it was in middle of the day... but it was still prime slotting in a location that is in one of the best locations the Ozarks can offer. I love the Gillioz.

Well I went, and after an hour of people shouting, berating, and booing, I can say that I'm exhausted with the Ozarks right now. I know it's a very conservative area, that's not the problem. Basic opposition to healthcare reform is not the problem.

The problem is that today, my fellow Ozarkers acted like spoiled brats, the ones you've seen on TV. In one hour, McCaskill tackled about a dozen questions, every single one of them from one point of view: government bad. Not a single question was asked from the left, which was disappointing. But again, the fact that the questions were "government bad" isn't the problem.

In a dozen questions, there was one amusing anecdote, one great question, and ten very poor questions about illegal immigrants, abortions, and how to recall a Senator. This was not an event about listening, or learning, or goading on our Senator. It was about letting off steam. And while there was one good answer about tort reform (that she later had to repeat because somebody else asked it), generally there was absolutely nothing but a waste of time for anybody looking to advance a debate one way or the other. Even somebody looking to have McCaskill politically schooled had to be disappointed: her answers were mostly to questions that were crap.

Adding to all that was the screaming, interrupting, boisterous laughing and heckling from every corner of that place (the house was about 80% against reform). And that's where my fellow Ozarkers looked like brats: they can't even have a conversation with a Senator who by all accounts would never had come here if she believed the conventional wisdom that (a.) the Ozarks didn't matter, and that (b.) they definitely don't matter to Democrats.

All in all, McCaskill handled herself okay. Her answers were underwhelming but you can only perform so well if your questions are so poor.

I've tried weaving this experience into a larger commentary about America or the Obama administration in general, but I keep coming up empty because more and more I feel like my concerns fall on deaf ears, or kneejerk reactions. It's disappointing but so be it.

Mainly I just expected tons better from my fellow constituents in the Ozarks, and was let down hard. I probably deserve it.

HonestChieffan
08-31-2009, 02:42 PM
"If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen" HS Truman

KC Dan
08-31-2009, 02:51 PM
"And while there was one good answer about tort reform (that she later had to repeat because somebody else asked it)"

Her stance is???

HonestChieffan
08-31-2009, 02:53 PM
If she represented her contituents, why would thewy all be so mad?

Chiefshrink
08-31-2009, 03:26 PM
You can bet she was condescending as well trying to parent everyone as she knows best.:rolleyes:

Direckshun
08-31-2009, 03:39 PM
"And while there was one good answer about tort reform (that she later had to repeat because somebody else asked it)"

Her stance is???

Her stance is that tort reform has already taken place in Missouri, as well as in other states, and it has not reduced health insurance costs to the consumer. It's reduced costs for physicians and doctors but has had zero impact on reducing health insurance premiums.

Direckshun
08-31-2009, 03:40 PM
You can bet she was condescending as well trying to parent everyone as she knows best.

She was condescending.

But there's literally no way around that when people are screaming like toddlers in Wal-Mart.

Ebolapox
08-31-2009, 03:47 PM
you're somehow shocked that people are upset about our government?

I drove by on the way from class today (had to drop off some mail at the post office), and there were a ton of protesters outside. don't know why, that surprised me a bit.

as to the 'government bad' crowd, this coming from a centrist, right/left leaning (depending on issue) libertarian, I can't find much fault with the 'government bad' crowd. the federal government hasn't exactly had the midas touch the last 50 years or so, eh?

Taco John
08-31-2009, 03:51 PM
Her stance is that tort reform has already taken place in Missouri, as well as in other states, and it has not reduced health insurance costs to the consumer. It's reduced costs for physicians and doctors but has had zero impact on reducing health insurance premiums.



Tort reform hasn't eliminated all of the government mandated waste in the system.

Also, you have this idea about "advancing the debate." It's a flawed premise. Your side wants to advance the debate. The other side wants to kill the debate dead - not advance it. Democrats will have to develop a spine if they want to "advance the debate." Your disappointment is misplaced if you're putting your hopes in the right to come around on this. The right wants to see Democrats hang themselves with this reform, not advance the debate.

You need to get tougher on your own kind, not expect that the right is going to come around. That's where you're going to be able to "advance the debate." Democrats could pass this thing tomorrow if they wanted.

HonestChieffan
08-31-2009, 03:54 PM
Why is it just liberal democrat senators and reps have all these mad folks?

KILLER_CLOWN
08-31-2009, 03:54 PM
Tort reform hasn't eliminated all of the government mandated waste in the system.

Also, you have this idea about "advancing the debate." It's a flawed premise. Your side wants to advance the debate. The other side wants to kill the debate dead - not advance it. Democrats will have to develop a spine if they want to "advance the debate." Your disappointment is misplaced if you're putting your hopes in the right to come around on this. The right wants to see Democrats hang themselves with this reform, not advance the debate.

You need to get tougher on your own kind, not expect that the right is going to come around. That's where you're going to be able to "advance the debate." Democrats could pass this thing tomorrow if they wanted.

Tort Reform is a red herring, giving the citizens no legal recourse for their losses is not a road we need to go down.

stevieray
08-31-2009, 03:56 PM
She was condescending.

But there's literally no way around that when people are screaming like toddlers in Wal-Mart.

that's pretty ironic, Sol Alinsky

StcChief
08-31-2009, 10:35 PM
this is gonna get alot uglier....

RINGLEADER
08-31-2009, 11:01 PM
You need to get tougher on your own kind, not expect that the right is going to come around. That's where you're going to be able to "advance the debate." Democrats could pass this thing tomorrow if they wanted.

Point well taken -- I think they want to buy off Olympia Snow so they can get one Republican vote and call it bi-partisan. Even then they're going to have to pass it through reconcilliation -- and if they do it would not surprise me to see the Democratic Party seriously wiped out in the next election. I think some on the left feel the same way which is why this hasn't been passed yet.

RINGLEADER
08-31-2009, 11:03 PM
Why is it just liberal democrat senators and reps have all these mad folks?

If any Republican assists in passage you can bet they will be voted out of office as well.

People don't want this legislation. The vast, vast majority of the people are insured and like their insurance. There's just no moral imperative worth the destruction of the system and the uncertainty that government control over anything brings.

Direckshun
08-31-2009, 11:04 PM
The vast, vast majority of the people are insured and like their insurance.

Link?

Taco John
08-31-2009, 11:11 PM
Link?

Link?

wazu
08-31-2009, 11:11 PM
Link?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-10-15-health-poll1.htm

Direckshun
08-31-2009, 11:17 PM
Even then they're going to have to pass it through reconcilliation -- and if they do it would not surprise me to see the Democratic Party seriously wiped out in the next election. I think some on the left feel the same way which is why this hasn't been passed yet.

I am not crazy about them passing it through reconciliation.

In short, I think it will set the precedent for some very brutal politics in the future.

RINGLEADER
08-31-2009, 11:24 PM
I am not crazy about them passing it through reconciliation.

In short, I think it will set the precedent for some very brutal politics in the future.

Brutal isn't the word.

Direckshun
08-31-2009, 11:55 PM
Hey, we've seen it escalate up to this point, right? It's the trend, by both parties...

Omnibus Reconciliation Act of 1980, Pub.L. 96-499 (1980)
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981, Pub.L. 97-35 (1981)
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1982, Pub.L. 97-253 (1982)
Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982 (TEFRA), Pub.L. 97-248 (1982)
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1983, Pub.L. 98-270 (1984)
Deficit Reduction Act of 1984 (DEFRA), Pub.L. 98-369 (1984)
Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985 (COBRA), Pub.L. 99-272 (1986)
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1986, Pub.L. 99-509 (1986)
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1987, Pub.L. 100-203 (1987)
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1989, Pub.L. 101-239 (1989)
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990, Pub.L. 101-508 (1990).
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993, Pub.L. 103-66 (1990).
Balanced Budget Act of 1995, H.R. 2491 (vetoed December 6, 1995)
Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act, Pub.L. 104-193 (1996)
Balanced Budget Act of 1997, Pub.L. 105-33 (1997)
Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997, Pub.L. 105-34 (1997)
Taxpayer Refund and Relief Act of 1999, H.R. 2488 (vetoed September 23, 1999)
Marriage Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2000, H.R. 4810 (vetoed August 5, 2000)
Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 (EGTRRA), Pub.L. 107-16 (2001)
Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003, Pub.L. 108-27 (2003)
Deficit Reduction Act of 2005, Pub.L. 109-171 (2006)
Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005 (TIPRA), Pub.L. 109-222 (2006)
College Cost Reduction and Access Act of 2007, Pub.L. 110-84 (2007)

Looking at the last ten items on that list, they certainly seem a lot more aggressive than the first ten.

It's escalating, and I'm wondering how long Congress will allow it to go.

HonestChieffan
09-01-2009, 12:12 AM
If they use reconciliation, the people will naturally fix the issue in the next election. They must not understand the level of unrest and the ramifications if it goes ignored.

RINGLEADER
09-01-2009, 12:15 AM
Hey, we've seen it escalate up to this point, right? It's the trend, by both parties...

Omnibus Reconciliation Act of 1980, Pub.L. 96-499 (1980)
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981, Pub.L. 97-35 (1981)
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1982, Pub.L. 97-253 (1982)
Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982 (TEFRA), Pub.L. 97-248 (1982)
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1983, Pub.L. 98-270 (1984)
Deficit Reduction Act of 1984 (DEFRA), Pub.L. 98-369 (1984)
Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985 (COBRA), Pub.L. 99-272 (1986)
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1986, Pub.L. 99-509 (1986)
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1987, Pub.L. 100-203 (1987)
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1989, Pub.L. 101-239 (1989)
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990, Pub.L. 101-508 (1990).
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993, Pub.L. 103-66 (1990).
Balanced Budget Act of 1995, H.R. 2491 (vetoed December 6, 1995)
Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act, Pub.L. 104-193 (1996)
Balanced Budget Act of 1997, Pub.L. 105-33 (1997)
Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997, Pub.L. 105-34 (1997)
Taxpayer Refund and Relief Act of 1999, H.R. 2488 (vetoed September 23, 1999)
Marriage Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2000, H.R. 4810 (vetoed August 5, 2000)
Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 (EGTRRA), Pub.L. 107-16 (2001)
Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003, Pub.L. 108-27 (2003)
Deficit Reduction Act of 2005, Pub.L. 109-171 (2006)
Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005 (TIPRA), Pub.L. 109-222 (2006)
College Cost Reduction and Access Act of 2007, Pub.L. 110-84 (2007)

Looking at the last ten items on that list, they certainly seem a lot more aggressive than the first ten.

It's escalating, and I'm wondering how long Congress will allow it to go.

And Obama will dig a deeper hole than all the other presidents before him combined.

Change.

Direckshun
09-01-2009, 12:17 AM
If they use reconciliation, the people will naturally fix the issue in the next election. They must not understand the level of unrest and the ramifications if it goes ignored.

Jesus, I hope so.

RINGLEADER
09-01-2009, 12:18 AM
If they use reconciliation, the people will naturally fix the issue in the next election. They must not understand the level of unrest and the ramifications if it goes ignored.

No, they know. They just can't help themselves. They're so close they can taste it. They've convinced themselves that the people opposing it are just crazy Nazis because if they actually listened they might stop and rethink what they're doing.

Direckshun
09-01-2009, 12:22 AM
They've convinced themselves that the people opposing it are just crazy Nazis.

Ha! Clearly you haven't been to a McCaskill town hall. :)

HonestChieffan
09-01-2009, 12:30 AM
Ha! Clearly you haven't been to a McCaskill town hall. :)

I have. And it was nothing like has been described by the left press and the lefty bloggers.

Direckshun
09-01-2009, 12:50 AM
I have. And it was nothing like has been described by the left press and the lefty bloggers.

You went to a town hall with her STAFFERS. None of the blowups anywhere in the country have been with just staffers present.

The media isn't inventing this. There's actual video out there.

HonestChieffan
09-01-2009, 12:54 AM
You went to a town hall with her STAFFERS. None of the blowups anywhere in the country have been with just staffers present.

The media isn't inventing this. There's actual video out there.

Project your sample of one observation to the universe. Nice try. You are still full of shit.

Direckshun
09-01-2009, 01:19 AM
Project your sample of one observation to the universe. Nice try.

My sample includes McCaskill herself.

Yours?

Inspector
09-01-2009, 06:55 AM
I spoke to McCaskill years ago - back in the mid 90's I believe. It was right after her husband got caught smoking a joint on a river boat. It was a radio call-in show.

She listened to my very polite and well worded question and then proceded to answer about something else entirely while totally ignoring what I had asked.

She was very condenscending and made it clear that she was far superior to any of us "commoners".

Haven't been a fan of hers since. I see her as being two faced and having a double standard. One for the elite, like herself, another for the rest of us. But then again, I have never had a candidiate I vote for ever win. Not even once.