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banyon
09-01-2009, 10:03 AM
Lawrence man convicted in ID scam
Fake diplomatic credentials bestowed ‘ambassador’ status
Email Comments (2) Print Facebook Digg Delicious Associated Press

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/sep/01/lawrence-man-convicted-id-scam/
September 1, 2009

Kansas City, Mo. — Three men who had connections to a social movement that rejects the legitimacy of the U.S. government were found guilty Monday of conspiracy to buy and sell fraudulent diplomatic credentials, prosecutors in Missouri said.

A federal jury in Kansas City convicted David Robinson, 66, of Lawrence, Kan.; Daniel Denham, 50, of Kingsville, Mo.; and Larry Goodyke, 52, of Henderson, Nev. after a weeklong trial. Federal prosecutors said the trio was connected to the “sovereign citizen movement.”

Robinson faces up to 65 years in prison and $3.25 million in fines. Denham faces up to 40 years in prison and a $2 million fine, while Goodyke could face 30 years and $1.5 million in fines.

The identification cards — 3-inch by 4-inch laminated cards identifying the bearer as an ambassador — contained the seal of the Department of State and the words “Diplomatic Identification.” Federal prosecutors said Goodyke also made license plates for individuals who had the credentials.

Customers were charged $450 to $2,000 for the cards. They were told the IDs would grant them sovereign status and spare them from paying taxes, and provide diplomatic immunity so they could no longer be stopped or arrested by law enforcement.

The men were convicted of a conspiracy to use, buy and sell fraudulent diplomatic cards from before July 2006 to Oct. 18, 2007.

Prosecutors said Robinson also was convicted of wrongfully using a government seal or instrument for presenting one of the fake ID cards to a Kansas City, Mo., police officer when he was stopped on Sept. 20, 2007.

All three of the men also were found guilty of multiple counts of using the fraudulent credentials.

It took jurors about four hours to return the guilty verdicts in a trial that started Aug. 24. A sentencing date has not been set.

KC Dan
09-01-2009, 10:09 AM
Lawrence man convicted in ID scam
Fake diplomatic credentials bestowed ‘ambassador’ status
HAHAHA, stupid idiots. Serves them right, all they had to do was be picked to be on Obama's staff and they could have gotten away without paying taxes. LMAO

wild1
09-01-2009, 10:11 AM
HAHAHA, stupid idiots. Serves them right, all they had to do was be picked to be on Obama's staff and they could have gotten away without paying taxes. LMAO

ROFL


Actually I bet these people are Prison Planet / Infowars / Art Bell types.

BucEyedPea
09-01-2009, 10:14 AM
ROFL


Actually I bet these people are Prison Planet / Infowars / Art Bell types.

Well, at least they're not NeoCons. :D

KC native
09-01-2009, 10:19 AM
New thread from Killer Clown explaining how this is a big conspiracy to discredit them in 3,2,1...

JonesCrusher
09-01-2009, 10:19 AM
The idiots who bought them should also be charged with felonious dumbassery

Garcia Bronco
09-01-2009, 01:23 PM
Are these those "International Id's" LMAO

2bikemike
09-01-2009, 01:28 PM
Sounds like they maybe heading to PrisonPlanet. What a bunch of dumb asses.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-01-2009, 02:24 PM
I agree these people should go to jail, and btw i've never heard of their movement and i read prison planet everyday. Banyon knows this has nothing to do with Prison Planet, i've been a reader and listener to the AJ show for 4 years and haven't spent a dime there.

orange
09-01-2009, 02:46 PM
I agree these people should go to jail, and btw i've never heard of their movement and i read prison planet everyday. Banyon knows this has nothing to do with Prison Planet, i've been a reader and listener to the AJ show for 4 years and haven't spent a dime there.

Operation Vigilant Eagle: Another Attack on the Sovereignty Movement

Kurt Nimmo
Infowars
April 19, 2009

Last week the Wall Street Journal reported on an operation launched earlier this year to target veterans who are members of “militia/sovereign-citizen extremist groups.” Operation Vigilant Eagle was launched in February, “two months before a memo giving a similar warning was issued on April 7 by the Department of Homeland Security.” It is described as a collaboration between the FBI and the Pentagon.

Campaign Liberty activists inspired by the Ron Paul revolution embraced the state sovereignty movement after Paul failed to gain the Republican nomination.

As Infowars points out, the DHS document in question was originally created in 2007 under the Bush administration and dusted off and revised under the Obama administration. Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano has defended the document and offered a weak apology to veterans who are targeted as extremists.

Documents outlining Operation Vigilant Eagle cite a surge in activity by white supremacists and “militia/sovereign-citizen extremist groups.” According to the Wall Street Journal, a February 23 draft memo from FBI “domestic counterterrorism leaders” cited an “increase in recruitment, threatening communications and weapons procurement by white supremacy extremist and militia/sovereign-citizen extremist groups.”

The aim of the FBI’s effort with the Defense Department, which was rolled into the Vigilant Eagle program, is to “share information regarding Iraqi and Afghanistan war veterans whose involvement in white supremacy and/or militia sovereign citizen extremist groups poses a domestic terrorism threat,” according to the Feb. 23 FBI memo.

In July, 2007, financial reports indicated members of the military overwhelmingly supported Ron Paul. In January, 2008, the Paul campaign released a television advertisement highlighting the fact Paul “received more support from active and retired military than any other candidate.”

Campaign Liberty activists inspired by the Ron Paul revolution embraced the state sovereignty movement after Paul failed to gain the Republican nomination.

“On February 11th, Oklahoma became the first state to act on legislation [to take back state’s rights under the 10th Amendment to the Constitution],” notes Kirk Shelly of Campaign for Liberty. “This action was directly brought about by a Ron Paul supporter, and it is Campaign for Liberty members that will see this battle all the way through to endorse Ron Paul’s candidacy for President because of Dr. Paul’s strong support for the US Constitution.”

Earlier efforts to pass state’s rights resolutions were sabotaged by the federal government after Timothy McVeigh was framed for bombing the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City (evidence later emerged indicating McVeigh was handled by the FBI). By late 1994, at least eight states had passed sovereignty resolution and legislators in more than 20 states planned to introduce resolutions in their 1995 sessions. The federal government and its lapdog corporate media linked these resolutions to the Militia movement blamed for killing 168 people in Oklahoma City.

It should be noted that in the wake of the OKC bombings, the Clinton administration (now reborn in the Obama administration) introduced the Omnibus Counter-Terrorism Bill as S.390 in the United States Senate (by now vice president Joe Biden) and as H.R.896 in the House of Representatives.


As documented by Michele Marie Moore in the book Oklahoma City: Day One, the legislation provided a general charter for the FBI and other agencies, including the military, to investigate political groups and causes at will. In addition, the legislation authorized secret trials, the use of illegally obtained evidence, allowed the military to engage in law enforcement activities (in violation of Posse Comitatus), relaxed rules for wiretaps, and allowed the president to determine who is a terrorist. “The bill was specifically designed to give the President of the United States the ability to name whomever he wished as a political enemy for the purpose of that person’s removal, and the appropriate media label would be ‘terrorist’. One could also foresee, as a result of this bill, great strides in the effort to completely disarm the American people,” writes Moore (see excerpts from Moore’s book here).

The DHS report and the FBI-Pentagon collaborative effort are designed to portray states’ right advocates and Libertarians in general as dangerous white supremacists and “militia/sovereign-citizen” extremists. The DHS report and news of “Operation Vigilant Eagle” were released prior to and after the Tea Party demonstrations around the country in order to discredit the movement the same way the earlier states’ rights movement was demonized and discredited.

Release of the DHS report was followed by a barrage of particularly vicious media coverage of the Tea Party demonstrations. Advocates of states’ rights and less government spending were mercilessly portrayed as everything from kooky conspiracy theorists to dangerous terrorists. Fox News and the establishment Republicans supported the movement in order to intensify critical media coverage by “liberal” elements, although many Republicans are sincere in their support of the movement.

Commentators had a field day with Texas Gov. Rick Perry’s supposed support of Tea Party principles and his assertion that if push came to shove Texas would secede. Perry is a Bilderberg darling and hardly an advocate of states’ rights.

However, as the liberal David S. Bernstein admits, today’s states’ rights movement is more popular and powerful than the government and media sabotaged version of a decade ago, “thanks in large part to the conservative-libertarian network that was formed and energized around Ron Paul’s presidential candidacy, and the large online communities of liberal-hating conservatives.”

According to the Boston Phoenix writer Bernstein, the Tenth Amendment movement is a John Birch Society plot foisted on government-loving liberals by the likes of Jerome R. Corsi and the “eponymous” radio host Alex Jones, a “full-throated conspiracy hawker.”

Short of another false flag attack like the one perpetuated by the government in Oklahoma City, the liberal media attempt to discredit the growing and wildly popular states’ rights movement (and the larger movement to reestablish a constitutionally limited republic) will fail miserably. Millions of Americans now realize the Obama administration is a front for the bankers and the “bailouts” and “stimulus” are contrivances designed to impoverish and enslave the nation.

We need to be vigilant to this very fact — when the government faces growing opposition it invariably resorts to manufactured terrorist attacks at home and abroad. Our rulers are dedicated to destroying the Constitution and ushering in world government at all cost. As the attacks of September 11, 2001, demonstrated they will not think twice about killing thousands of people in order to realize their plan to convert the world into a nightmarish global slave plantation with a high-tech control grid overlay.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/operation-vigilant-eagle-another-attack-on-the-sovereignty-movement.html

KILLER_CLOWN
09-01-2009, 02:54 PM
Operation Vigilant Eagle: Another Attack on the Sovereignty Movement

Kurt Nimmo
Infowars
April 19, 2009

Last week the Wall Street Journal reported on an operation launched earlier this year to target veterans who are members of “militia/sovereign-citizen extremist groups.” Operation Vigilant Eagle was launched in February, “two months before a memo giving a similar warning was issued on April 7 by the Department of Homeland Security.” It is described as a collaboration between the FBI and the Pentagon.

Campaign Liberty activists inspired by the Ron Paul revolution embraced the state sovereignty movement after Paul failed to gain the Republican nomination.

As Infowars points out, the DHS document in question was originally created in 2007 under the Bush administration and dusted off and revised under the Obama administration. Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano has defended the document and offered a weak apology to veterans who are targeted as extremists.

Documents outlining Operation Vigilant Eagle cite a surge in activity by white supremacists and “militia/sovereign-citizen extremist groups.” According to the Wall Street Journal, a February 23 draft memo from FBI “domestic counterterrorism leaders” cited an “increase in recruitment, threatening communications and weapons procurement by white supremacy extremist and militia/sovereign-citizen extremist groups.”

The aim of the FBI’s effort with the Defense Department, which was rolled into the Vigilant Eagle program, is to “share information regarding Iraqi and Afghanistan war veterans whose involvement in white supremacy and/or militia sovereign citizen extremist groups poses a domestic terrorism threat,” according to the Feb. 23 FBI memo.

In July, 2007, financial reports indicated members of the military overwhelmingly supported Ron Paul. In January, 2008, the Paul campaign released a television advertisement highlighting the fact Paul “received more support from active and retired military than any other candidate.”

Campaign Liberty activists inspired by the Ron Paul revolution embraced the state sovereignty movement after Paul failed to gain the Republican nomination.

“On February 11th, Oklahoma became the first state to act on legislation [to take back state’s rights under the 10th Amendment to the Constitution],” notes Kirk Shelly of Campaign for Liberty. “This action was directly brought about by a Ron Paul supporter, and it is Campaign for Liberty members that will see this battle all the way through to endorse Ron Paul’s candidacy for President because of Dr. Paul’s strong support for the US Constitution.”

Earlier efforts to pass state’s rights resolutions were sabotaged by the federal government after Timothy McVeigh was framed for bombing the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City (evidence later emerged indicating McVeigh was handled by the FBI). By late 1994, at least eight states had passed sovereignty resolution and legislators in more than 20 states planned to introduce resolutions in their 1995 sessions. The federal government and its lapdog corporate media linked these resolutions to the Militia movement blamed for killing 168 people in Oklahoma City.

It should be noted that in the wake of the OKC bombings, the Clinton administration (now reborn in the Obama administration) introduced the Omnibus Counter-Terrorism Bill as S.390 in the United States Senate (by now vice president Joe Biden) and as H.R.896 in the House of Representatives.


As documented by Michele Marie Moore in the book Oklahoma City: Day One, the legislation provided a general charter for the FBI and other agencies, including the military, to investigate political groups and causes at will. In addition, the legislation authorized secret trials, the use of illegally obtained evidence, allowed the military to engage in law enforcement activities (in violation of Posse Comitatus), relaxed rules for wiretaps, and allowed the president to determine who is a terrorist. “The bill was specifically designed to give the President of the United States the ability to name whomever he wished as a political enemy for the purpose of that person’s removal, and the appropriate media label would be ‘terrorist’. One could also foresee, as a result of this bill, great strides in the effort to completely disarm the American people,” writes Moore (see excerpts from Moore’s book here).

The DHS report and the FBI-Pentagon collaborative effort are designed to portray states’ right advocates and Libertarians in general as dangerous white supremacists and “militia/sovereign-citizen” extremists. The DHS report and news of “Operation Vigilant Eagle” were released prior to and after the Tea Party demonstrations around the country in order to discredit the movement the same way the earlier states’ rights movement was demonized and discredited.

Release of the DHS report was followed by a barrage of particularly vicious media coverage of the Tea Party demonstrations. Advocates of states’ rights and less government spending were mercilessly portrayed as everything from kooky conspiracy theorists to dangerous terrorists. Fox News and the establishment Republicans supported the movement in order to intensify critical media coverage by “liberal” elements, although many Republicans are sincere in their support of the movement.

Commentators had a field day with Texas Gov. Rick Perry’s supposed support of Tea Party principles and his assertion that if push came to shove Texas would secede. Perry is a Bilderberg darling and hardly an advocate of states’ rights.

However, as the liberal David S. Bernstein admits, today’s states’ rights movement is more popular and powerful than the government and media sabotaged version of a decade ago, “thanks in large part to the conservative-libertarian network that was formed and energized around Ron Paul’s presidential candidacy, and the large online communities of liberal-hating conservatives.”

According to the Boston Phoenix writer Bernstein, the Tenth Amendment movement is a John Birch Society plot foisted on government-loving liberals by the likes of Jerome R. Corsi and the “eponymous” radio host Alex Jones, a “full-throated conspiracy hawker.”

Short of another false flag attack like the one perpetuated by the government in Oklahoma City, the liberal media attempt to discredit the growing and wildly popular states’ rights movement (and the larger movement to reestablish a constitutionally limited republic) will fail miserably. Millions of Americans now realize the Obama administration is a front for the bankers and the “bailouts” and “stimulus” are contrivances designed to impoverish and enslave the nation.

We need to be vigilant to this very fact — when the government faces growing opposition it invariably resorts to manufactured terrorist attacks at home and abroad. Our rulers are dedicated to destroying the Constitution and ushering in world government at all cost. As the attacks of September 11, 2001, demonstrated they will not think twice about killing thousands of people in order to realize their plan to convert the world into a nightmarish global slave plantation with a high-tech control grid overlay.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/operation-vigilant-eagle-another-attack-on-the-sovereignty-movement.html

Great so some scammers decided to use this as a front to scam, that never happens in any other walk of life. :rolleyes:

I saw some guys up at quiktrip trying to bum $5 off of everyone that came out the door for gas, i guess quiktrip is evil.

banyon
09-01-2009, 04:31 PM
I agree these people should go to jail, and btw i've never heard of their movement and i read prison planet everyday. Banyon knows this has nothing to do with Prison Planet, i've been a reader and listener to the AJ show for 4 years and haven't spent a dime there.

Operation Vigilant Eagle: Another Attack on the Sovereignty Movement

Kurt Nimmo
Infowars
April 19, 2009

Last week the Wall Street Journal reported on an operation launched earlier this year to target veterans who are members of “militia/sovereign-citizen extremist groups.” Operation Vigilant Eagle was launched in February, “two months before a memo giving a similar warning was issued on April 7 by the Department of Homeland Security.” It is described as a collaboration between the FBI and the Pentagon.

Campaign Liberty activists inspired by the Ron Paul revolution embraced the state sovereignty movement after Paul failed to gain the Republican nomination.

As Infowars points out, the DHS document in question was originally created in 2007 under the Bush administration and dusted off and revised under the Obama administration. Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano has defended the document and offered a weak apology to veterans who are targeted as extremists.

Documents outlining Operation Vigilant Eagle cite a surge in activity by white supremacists and “militia/sovereign-citizen extremist groups.” According to the Wall Street Journal, a February 23 draft memo from FBI “domestic counterterrorism leaders” cited an “increase in recruitment, threatening communications and weapons procurement by white supremacy extremist and militia/sovereign-citizen extremist groups.”

The aim of the FBI’s effort with the Defense Department, which was rolled into the Vigilant Eagle program, is to “share information regarding Iraqi and Afghanistan war veterans whose involvement in white supremacy and/or militia sovereign citizen extremist groups poses a domestic terrorism threat,” according to the Feb. 23 FBI memo.

In July, 2007, financial reports indicated members of the military overwhelmingly supported Ron Paul. In January, 2008, the Paul campaign released a television advertisement highlighting the fact Paul “received more support from active and retired military than any other candidate.”

Campaign Liberty activists inspired by the Ron Paul revolution embraced the state sovereignty movement after Paul failed to gain the Republican nomination.

“On February 11th, Oklahoma became the first state to act on legislation [to take back state’s rights under the 10th Amendment to the Constitution],” notes Kirk Shelly of Campaign for Liberty. “This action was directly brought about by a Ron Paul supporter, and it is Campaign for Liberty members that will see this battle all the way through to endorse Ron Paul’s candidacy for President because of Dr. Paul’s strong support for the US Constitution.”

Earlier efforts to pass state’s rights resolutions were sabotaged by the federal government after Timothy McVeigh was framed for bombing the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City (evidence later emerged indicating McVeigh was handled by the FBI). By late 1994, at least eight states had passed sovereignty resolution and legislators in more than 20 states planned to introduce resolutions in their 1995 sessions. The federal government and its lapdog corporate media linked these resolutions to the Militia movement blamed for killing 168 people in Oklahoma City.

It should be noted that in the wake of the OKC bombings, the Clinton administration (now reborn in the Obama administration) introduced the Omnibus Counter-Terrorism Bill as S.390 in the United States Senate (by now vice president Joe Biden) and as H.R.896 in the House of Representatives.


As documented by Michele Marie Moore in the book Oklahoma City: Day One, the legislation provided a general charter for the FBI and other agencies, including the military, to investigate political groups and causes at will. In addition, the legislation authorized secret trials, the use of illegally obtained evidence, allowed the military to engage in law enforcement activities (in violation of Posse Comitatus), relaxed rules for wiretaps, and allowed the president to determine who is a terrorist. “The bill was specifically designed to give the President of the United States the ability to name whomever he wished as a political enemy for the purpose of that person’s removal, and the appropriate media label would be ‘terrorist’. One could also foresee, as a result of this bill, great strides in the effort to completely disarm the American people,” writes Moore (see excerpts from Moore’s book here).

The DHS report and the FBI-Pentagon collaborative effort are designed to portray states’ right advocates and Libertarians in general as dangerous white supremacists and “militia/sovereign-citizen” extremists. The DHS report and news of “Operation Vigilant Eagle” were released prior to and after the Tea Party demonstrations around the country in order to discredit the movement the same way the earlier states’ rights movement was demonized and discredited.

Release of the DHS report was followed by a barrage of particularly vicious media coverage of the Tea Party demonstrations. Advocates of states’ rights and less government spending were mercilessly portrayed as everything from kooky conspiracy theorists to dangerous terrorists. Fox News and the establishment Republicans supported the movement in order to intensify critical media coverage by “liberal” elements, although many Republicans are sincere in their support of the movement.

Commentators had a field day with Texas Gov. Rick Perry’s supposed support of Tea Party principles and his assertion that if push came to shove Texas would secede. Perry is a Bilderberg darling and hardly an advocate of states’ rights.

However, as the liberal David S. Bernstein admits, today’s states’ rights movement is more popular and powerful than the government and media sabotaged version of a decade ago, “thanks in large part to the conservative-libertarian network that was formed and energized around Ron Paul’s presidential candidacy, and the large online communities of liberal-hating conservatives.”

According to the Boston Phoenix writer Bernstein, the Tenth Amendment movement is a John Birch Society plot foisted on government-loving liberals by the likes of Jerome R. Corsi and the “eponymous” radio host Alex Jones, a “full-throated conspiracy hawker.”

Short of another false flag attack like the one perpetuated by the government in Oklahoma City, the liberal media attempt to discredit the growing and wildly popular states’ rights movement (and the larger movement to reestablish a constitutionally limited republic) will fail miserably. Millions of Americans now realize the Obama administration is a front for the bankers and the “bailouts” and “stimulus” are contrivances designed to impoverish and enslave the nation.

We need to be vigilant to this very fact — when the government faces growing opposition it invariably resorts to manufactured terrorist attacks at home and abroad. Our rulers are dedicated to destroying the Constitution and ushering in world government at all cost. As the attacks of September 11, 2001, demonstrated they will not think twice about killing thousands of people in order to realize their plan to convert the world into a nightmarish global slave plantation with a high-tech control grid overlay.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/operation-vigilant-eagle-another-attack-on-the-sovereignty-movement.html

Wow. complete pwnage.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-01-2009, 05:01 PM
Wow. complete pwnage.

Ok Banyon when is your 8th birthday? is it soon?

banyon
09-01-2009, 05:11 PM
Ok Banyon when is your 8th birthday? is it soon?

did you notice you were pretty wrong in this thread yet?

KILLER_CLOWN
09-01-2009, 05:14 PM
did you notice you were pretty wrong in this thread yet?

Nope, what i said still stands. What do 3 rogue scammer nuts have to do with the movement?

WilliamTheIrish
09-01-2009, 05:23 PM
Klowned.

BucEyedPea
09-01-2009, 05:24 PM
Why is this important? Did bunyon feel a need to do a veiled call-out thread. Typical.

banyon
09-01-2009, 05:24 PM
Nope, what i said still stands. What do 3 rogue scammer nuts have to do with the movement?

You said this has "nothing to do with prison planet" and then orange posts the article from infowars (a prison planet site) covering the same group and implying that they've given credible coverage to the group on prior occasions too.

I don't think anyone meant that Alex Jones himself is the leader of this group, but just that these same types were covered and thier ideas given credence by that type of site.

So, no, what you said doesn't "stand" at all.

banyon
09-01-2009, 05:26 PM
Why is this important? Did bunyon feel a need to do a veiled call-out thread. Typical.

It's important that people don't continue to believe such paranoid conspiracist tripe. That's the "need" I felt.

Of course I am probably wasting my breath addressing you on such a topic.

kcfanXIII
09-01-2009, 05:29 PM
did i miss something or was banyon the only connection to prisonplanet? i'm not seeing any other connection, even after the article orange posted.

kcfanXIII
09-01-2009, 05:32 PM
It's important that people don't continue to believe such paranoid conspiracist tripe. That's the "need" I felt.

Of course I am probably wasting my breath addressing you on such a topic.

i don't see how this could possibly discredit an entire movement, let alone an unrelated website. you're grasping at straws.. btw, these guys were idiots and deserve the jail time.

banyon
09-01-2009, 05:36 PM
did i miss something or was banyon the only connection to prisonplanet? i'm not seeing any other connection, even after the article orange posted.

Yes, you missed the fact that infowars and prisonplanet are run by the same people.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-01-2009, 05:36 PM
You said this has "nothing to do with prison planet" and then orange posts the article from infowars (a prison planet site) covering the same group and implying that they've given credible coverage to the group on prior occasions too.

I don't think anyone meant that Alex Jones himself is the leader of this group, but just that these same types were covered and thier ideas given credence by that type of site.

So, no, what you said doesn't "stand" at all.

Still has nothing to do with prison planet, i'm fairly certain these individuals were as relevant to the movement as a groupie to a band.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-01-2009, 05:36 PM
It's important that people don't continue to believe such paranoid conspiracist tripe. That's the "need" I felt.

Of course I am probably wasting my breath addressing you on such a topic.

Anyone that believed these 3 idiots stories deserved what they got, i mean that should include anyone with an iq above say 25?

banyon
09-01-2009, 05:37 PM
Still has nothing to do with prison planet, i'm fairly certain these individuals were as relevant to the movement as a groupie to a band.

How do you know that? More importantly, how in the hell are you "fairly certain" about it?

I think I potentially have some higher standards for certainty than you.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-01-2009, 05:40 PM
Yes, you missed the fact that infowars and prisonplanet are run by the same people.

and still had nothing to do with the idiotic scammers you posted about.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-01-2009, 05:41 PM
How do you know that? More importantly, how in the hell are you "fairly certain" about it?

I think I potentially have some higher standards for certainty than you.

Ok super sleuth find the link.

banyon
09-01-2009, 05:42 PM
Ok super sleuth find the link.

Wait, I thought you were fairly certain? Where did your certainty come from?

Now you want me to go and find the source for your certainty?

KILLER_CLOWN
09-01-2009, 05:44 PM
Wait, I thought you were fairly certain? Where did your certainty come from?

Now you want me to go and find the source for your certainty?

the burden of proof is on you and your crazy conspiracy theories.

kcfanXIII
09-01-2009, 05:53 PM
Yes, you missed the fact that infowars and prisonplanet are run by the same people.

umm, ya. i know that. you are dodging the question. how does the fact these idiots were trying to get diplomatic immunity, or quit paying taxes, equal prison planet readers? the sovereign state movement referred to the 10th amendment, not becoming sovereign citizens. nice attempt at looking like you know what you are talking about.

banyon
09-01-2009, 05:55 PM
the burden of proof is on you and your crazy conspiracy theories.

So, you don't know where your certainty came from then?

KILLER_CLOWN
09-01-2009, 06:17 PM
So, you don't know where your certainty came from then?

Chris Mathews, he's my hero! :drool:

orange
09-01-2009, 07:03 PM
Great so some scammers decided to use this as a front to scam, that never happens in any other walk of life. :rolleyes:

I saw some guys up at quiktrip trying to bum $5 off of everyone that came out the door for gas, i guess quiktrip is evil.

And an abortion physician in Kansas was murdered by a man steeped in the ideology of the "sovereign citizens" movement.

So-called sovereign citizens are people who subscribe to an ideology, originated by the anti-Semitic Posse Comitatus of the 1980s, that claims that whites are a higher kind of citizen — subject only to "common law," not the dictates of the government — while blacks are mere "14th Amendment citizens" who must obey their government masters. Although not all sovereigns subscribe to or even know about the theory's racist basis, most contend that they do not have to pay taxes, are not subject to most laws, and are not citizens of the United States.

Authorities and anecdotal evidence suggest that sovereign citizens — who, along with tax protesters and militia members, form the larger Patriot movement — may make up the most dramatically reenergized sector of the radical right. In February, the FBI launched a national operation targeting white supremacists and "militia/sovereign citizen extremist groups" after noting an upsurge in such organizations, The Wall Street Journal reported. The aim is to gather intelligence about "this emerging threat," according to an FBI memo cited by the newspaper.

Increasingly, sovereign citizens are claiming they aren't subject to income taxes — so much so that the Department of Justice last year kicked off a National Tax Defier Initiative to deal with the volume of cases. At the same time, more and more seem to be engaging in "paper terrorism," even though more than 30 states passed or strengthened laws outlawing the filing of unjustified property liens and simulating legal process (by setting up pseudo-legal "common law courts" and "citizens' grand juries") in response to sovereign activity in the 1990s.

A Michigan man whose company allegedly doubled as the headquarters of a militia group, for example, was arrested in May on charges that he placed bogus liens on property owned by courthouse officials and police officers to harass them and ruin their credit. In March, authorities raided a Las Vegas printing firm where meetings of the "Sovereign People's Court for the United States" were conducted in a mock courtroom. Seminars allegedly were taught there on how to use phony documents and other illegal means to pay off creditors. Four people were arrested on money-laundering, tax and weapons charges.

Due to a spike in "inappropriate communications," including many from sovereign citizens, the U.S. Marshals Service has opened a clearinghouse in suburban Washington, D.C., for assessing risks to court personnel. The incidents include telephone and written threats against federal judges and prosecutors, as well as bomb threats and biochemical incidents. In fiscal 2008, there were 1,278 threats and harassing communications — more than double the number of six years earlier. The number of such incidents is on pace to increase again in fiscal 2009. Sovereign citizens account for a small percentage of the cases, but theirs are more complex and generally require more resources, says Michael Prout, assistant director of judicial security for the marshals. "They are resourceful groups," he adds.

Some sovereign citizen attempts to skirt the law have been farcical. An Arkansas jury needed only seven minutes in April to convict Richard Bauer, 70, of robbing a bank. Bauer had argued that the government took his money several times, leaving him with almost nothing. "I'm a constitutionalist," he insisted, adding that "every single act was justifiable." A month earlier, a Pennsylvania man charged with drunken driving told court officials that they lacked jurisdiction over him because he was a "sovereign man." Then he changed his mind and pleaded guilty. In Nevada, a sovereign citizen — perhaps a Dr. Seuss fan —used the peculiar punctuation of names that is favored by the movement; his name, he declared, was "I am: Sam."

But few of the cases are that amusing. In February, a New York man who once declared himself a "sovereign citizen" of the "Republic of New York" and said that he enjoyed studying "the organic Constitution and the Bill of Rights" allegedly shot and killed four people. His murder case was pending at press time.

http://www.splcenter.org/news/item.jsp?pid=415


Using a criminal movement as a front for criminality - GENIOUS!

More arrests: http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/06/02/alleged-sovereign-citizen-arrested-on-weapons-and-drug-charges/
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1541805/four_men_associated_with_sovereign.html?cat=17
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/mar/15/living-us-rejecting-its-laws-targeted-terrorists/

KILLER_CLOWN
09-01-2009, 07:24 PM
And an abortion physician in Kansas was murdered by a man steeped in the ideology of the "sovereign citizens" movement.

So-called sovereign citizens are people who subscribe to an ideology, originated by the anti-Semitic Posse Comitatus of the 1980s, that claims that whites are a higher kind of citizen — subject only to "common law," not the dictates of the government — while blacks are mere "14th Amendment citizens" who must obey their government masters. Although not all sovereigns subscribe to or even know about the theory's racist basis, most contend that they do not have to pay taxes, are not subject to most laws, and are not citizens of the United States.

Authorities and anecdotal evidence suggest that sovereign citizens — who, along with tax protesters and militia members, form the larger Patriot movement — may make up the most dramatically reenergized sector of the radical right. In February, the FBI launched a national operation targeting white supremacists and "militia/sovereign citizen extremist groups" after noting an upsurge in such organizations, The Wall Street Journal reported. The aim is to gather intelligence about "this emerging threat," according to an FBI memo cited by the newspaper.

Increasingly, sovereign citizens are claiming they aren't subject to income taxes — so much so that the Department of Justice last year kicked off a National Tax Defier Initiative to deal with the volume of cases. At the same time, more and more seem to be engaging in "paper terrorism," even though more than 30 states passed or strengthened laws outlawing the filing of unjustified property liens and simulating legal process (by setting up pseudo-legal "common law courts" and "citizens' grand juries") in response to sovereign activity in the 1990s.

A Michigan man whose company allegedly doubled as the headquarters of a militia group, for example, was arrested in May on charges that he placed bogus liens on property owned by courthouse officials and police officers to harass them and ruin their credit. In March, authorities raided a Las Vegas printing firm where meetings of the "Sovereign People's Court for the United States" were conducted in a mock courtroom. Seminars allegedly were taught there on how to use phony documents and other illegal means to pay off creditors. Four people were arrested on money-laundering, tax and weapons charges.

Due to a spike in "inappropriate communications," including many from sovereign citizens, the U.S. Marshals Service has opened a clearinghouse in suburban Washington, D.C., for assessing risks to court personnel. The incidents include telephone and written threats against federal judges and prosecutors, as well as bomb threats and biochemical incidents. In fiscal 2008, there were 1,278 threats and harassing communications — more than double the number of six years earlier. The number of such incidents is on pace to increase again in fiscal 2009. Sovereign citizens account for a small percentage of the cases, but theirs are more complex and generally require more resources, says Michael Prout, assistant director of judicial security for the marshals. "They are resourceful groups," he adds.

Some sovereign citizen attempts to skirt the law have been farcical. An Arkansas jury needed only seven minutes in April to convict Richard Bauer, 70, of robbing a bank. Bauer had argued that the government took his money several times, leaving him with almost nothing. "I'm a constitutionalist," he insisted, adding that "every single act was justifiable." A month earlier, a Pennsylvania man charged with drunken driving told court officials that they lacked jurisdiction over him because he was a "sovereign man." Then he changed his mind and pleaded guilty. In Nevada, a sovereign citizen — perhaps a Dr. Seuss fan —used the peculiar punctuation of names that is favored by the movement; his name, he declared, was "I am: Sam."

But few of the cases are that amusing. In February, a New York man who once declared himself a "sovereign citizen" of the "Republic of New York" and said that he enjoyed studying "the organic Constitution and the Bill of Rights" allegedly shot and killed four people. His murder case was pending at press time.

http://www.splcenter.org/news/item.jsp?pid=415


Using a criminal movement as a front for criminality - GENIOUS!

More arrests: http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/06/02/alleged-sovereign-citizen-arrested-on-weapons-and-drug-charges/
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1541805/four_men_associated_with_sovereign.html?cat=17
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/mar/15/living-us-rejecting-its-laws-targeted-terrorists/

not using your brain while the point flies over your head, priceless.

Oh and thanks for the laugh from the southern poverty law center, they are the trusted bunch that ran Eloheim city and the Oklahoma City bombing.

orange
09-01-2009, 07:47 PM
Oh and thanks for the laugh from the southern poverty law center, they are the trusted bunch that ran Eloheim city and the Oklahoma City bombing.

More prisonplanet exclusives. :doh!:

When are the indictments coming?

KILLER_CLOWN
09-01-2009, 07:55 PM
More prisonplanet exclusives. :doh!:

When are the indictments coming?

Actually prison planet was late reporting that.

orange
09-01-2009, 08:03 PM
Actually prison planet was late reporting that.

Actually, they didn't report it at all, now did they?


SPLC theoretically WARNED the FBI about the bombing and was ignored. That's Trentadue's whole schtick.

Try to get your conspiracies right.

Of course, none of it matters. The country collapses in two months. http://www.prisonplanet.com/russian-professor-collapse-of-america-could-begin-in-two-months.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/september2009/010909top2.jpg

KILLER_CLOWN
09-01-2009, 08:12 PM
Actually, they didn't report it at all, now did they?


SPLC theoretically WARNED the FBI about the bombing and was ignored. That's Trentadue's whole schtick.

Try to get your conspiracies right.

Of course, none of it matters. The country collapses in two months. http://www.prisonplanet.com/russian-professor-collapse-of-america-could-begin-in-two-months.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/september2009/010909top2.jpg

They did report it, and your twisting Trentadues version. Here's the article you just linked.

Russian Professor: Collapse Of America Could Begin In Two Months

Doomsday author says Obama is doing nothing to forestall disintegration

Russian Professor: Collapse Of America Could Begin In Two Months 010909top

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet.com
Tuesday, September 1, 2009

Russian Professor Igor Panarin says that events are continuing to confirm his doomsday prediction first made over 10 years ago, that the United States will completely collapse like the Soviet Union before the end of 2010, and warns that the chaos could begin to unfold in as little as two months.

Panarin, doctor of political sciences and professor of the Russian Diplomatic Academy Ministry of Foreign Affairs, told journalists during the unveiling of his new book yesterday that President Obama has done nothing to forestall the fast approaching crisis and that it could begin to properly unfold in November.

“Obama is “the president of hope”, but in a year there won’t be any hope,” said Panarin. “He’s practically another Gorbachev – he likes to talk but hasn’t really managed to do anything. Gorbachev at least had been a secretary of a regional communist party administration, whereas Obama was just a social worker. His mentality is totally different. He’s a nice person and talks nicely – but he’s not a leader and will take America to a crash. When Americans understand that – it will be like a bomb explosion.”

Since 1998, Panarin has been warning of a future disintegration of the United States and the collapse of the dollar. The recent election victory for Japan’s Democratic Party is another sign that the economic collapse of the U.S. is imminent, according to Panarin.

(ARTICLE CONTINUES BELOW)

Russian Professor: Collapse Of America Could Begin In Two Months 270809banner

“Today I received another confirmation that the collapse of the dollar and the US is inevitable. Japan’s Democratic Party won the election, and I’d like to remind you that its leader [Yukio Hatoyama] has the snubbing of the dollar among his economic plans. In plainer words, he plans to transfer Japan’s monetary reserves from US dollars into another currency. The move will seriously accelerate the dollar’s exchange slump as early as this November. Disintegration will follow shortly,” he said, adding that next year China would also begin to massively dump the dollar and that Russia would begin to sell oil and gas for roubles.

Panarin previously stated that the dollar would eventually be replaced with “a common Amero currency as a new monetary unit”, referring to the Security and Prosperity Partnership agreement between the U.S., Canada and Mexico.

He foresees the U.S. breaking up into six different parts, roughly along lines similar to those of 1865 during the Civil War, “The Pacific coast, with its growing Chinese population; the South, with its Hispanics; Texas, where independence movements are on the rise; the Atlantic coast, with its distinct and separate mentality; five of the poorer central states with their large Native American populations; and the northern states, where the influence from Canada is strong,” according to Panarin.

Russian Professor: Collapse Of America Could Begin In Two Months 010909top2

Longer term, Panarin predicts that the breakaway states will eventually be taken over by the European Union, Canada, China, Mexico, Japan and Russia and America will cease to exist altogether, as depicted in the illustration above.

Panarin blames the collapse on a “political elite that implements an absurd and aggressive policy that aims to create conflicts around the planet” and warns that increasing firearms sales in the U.S. are a sign that people are preparing for “chaos” in the aftermath of a total financial meltdown.

“In my opinion, the probability of the US ceasing to exist by June, 2010 exceeds 50%. At this point, the mission of all major international powers is to prevent chaos in the US,” Panarin concluded.

Watch a clip from Russia Today below.

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Saul Good
09-01-2009, 08:16 PM
Actually, they didn't report it at all, now did they?


SPLC theoretically WARNED the FBI about the bombing and was ignored. That's Trentadue's whole schtick.

Try to get your conspiracies right.

Of course, none of it matters. The country collapses in two months. http://www.prisonplanet.com/russian-professor-collapse-of-america-could-begin-in-two-months.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/september2009/010909top2.jpg

Following your link was the first time I've ever been on that site. In the article you linked, they simply discussed one person's prediction. They didn't try to pass it off as anything more than the prediction of one man who did not appear to have any connection to the site.

The New York Times has done stories about the Mayan calendar. I guess they must believe that the world is coming to an end in 2012.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-01-2009, 08:16 PM
The FBI, the Torture and Murder of Kenneth Trentadue and Advanced Knowledge of the Oklahoma City Bombing

Paul Craig Roberts | May 27 2005

In 1995 Kenneth Trentadue was murdered by federal agents in a federal prison in Oklahoma City. A coverup immediately went into effect. Federal authorities claimed Trentadue, who was being held in a suicide-proof cell, had committed suicide by hanging himself, but the state coroner would not buy the story.

Prison authorities tried to get family consent to cremate the body. But Trentadue had been picked up on a minor parole violation, and the story of suicide by a happily married man delighted with his two-month old son raised red flags to the family.

When the Trentadue family received Kenneth's body and heavy makeup was scraped away, the evidence (available in photos on the Internet) clearly shows a person who had been tortured and beaten. His throat was slashed and he may have been garroted. There are bruises, burns and cuts from the soles of Trentadue's feet to his head, wounds that obviously were not self-inflicted.

As the state coroner noted at the time, every investigative rule was broken by the federal prison. The coroner was not allowed into the cell, and the cell was scrubbed down prior to investigation.

The federal coverup was completely transparent. A US senator made inquiries, but the US Department of Justice (sic), knowing that it would not be held accountable, stuck to its fabricated story.

That was a mistake.

Trentadue's brother, Jesse, is an attorney. He believes that federal officials, like everyone else, must be held accountable for their crimes.

He has been battling the Justice Department and the FBI for a decade.

Jesse Trentadue has amassed evidence that his brother was mistaken for Tim McVeigh's alleged accomplice in the bombing of the federal building in Oklahoma City. Federal agents, believing that they had Richard Lee Guthrie in their hands, went too far in attempting to force him to talk.

Jesse Trentadue learned that the FBI had informants planted with two groups on which McVeigh may have relied: a white supremacist paramilitary training compound at Elohim City and the Mid-West Bank Robbery Gang. The implication is that the FBI had advance notice of McVeigh's plans and may have been conducting a sting operation that went awry.

The FBI has documents that name the informants. Teletypes from then FBI director Louis Freeh dated January 4, 1996, and August 23, 1996, confirm that the FBI had informants imbedded with the Mid-West Bank Robbery Gang and in Elohim City. In these documents, Freeh reports to various FBI field offices that the Elohim City informant (possibly explosives expert and German national Andreas Carl Strassmeir) "allegedly has had a lengthy relationship with Timothy McVeigh" and "that McVeigh had placed a telephone call to Elohim City on 4/5/95, a day that he was believed to have been attempting to recruit a second conspirator to assist in the OKBOMB attack."

The FBI denied to federal judge Dale Kimball that any such documents existed. But someone had leaked the teletypes to Trentadue, and he put them before the judge along with an affidavit of their genuineness. Caught red-handed lying to a federal judge, the FBI was ordered to produce all documents Trentadue demanded. Judge Kimball gave the FBI until June 15, 2005, to deliver the incriminating records. Needless to say, the FBI doesn't want to deliver and is attempting every possible dodge to escape obeying the judge's order.

In his effort to uncover the DOJ's coverup of his brother's murder, Jesse Trentadue may have uncovered evidence of the FBI's failure to prevent the bombing of the Murrah Building. It is bad enough that the murder of Kenneth Trentadue is covered over with many layers of DOJ perjury and the withholding and destruction of evidence.

Evidence that the FBI was aware of McVeigh's plan to bomb the Murrah Building and failed to prevent the deed would be an additional heavy blow to the prestige of federal law enforcement.

http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts05262005.html

banyon
09-01-2009, 08:18 PM
Actually, they didn't report it at all, now did they?


SPLC theoretically WARNED the FBI about the bombing and was ignored. That's Trentadue's whole schtick.

Try to get your conspiracies right.

Of course, none of it matters. The country collapses in two months. http://www.prisonplanet.com/russian-professor-collapse-of-america-could-begin-in-two-months.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/september2009/010909top2.jpg

Hooray, I get Socialized medicine!

KILLER_CLOWN
09-01-2009, 08:23 PM
http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/february2007/230207okc.jpg

Attorney: Sealed Documents Indicate OKC Inside Job
FBI, defense team files identify government informants directing McVeigh

Paul Joseph Watson & Alex Jones
Prison Planet
Friday, February 23, 2007


UPDATED 1:10PM CST WITH PDF DECLARATIONS OF TERRY NICHOLS AND DAVID PAUL HAMMER

Declaration of Terry Lynn Nichols

Declaration of David Paul Hammer

Motion for an order allowing the videotaped depositions of David Paul Hammer and Terry Lynn Nichols

The attached exhibits to the declarations mainly consist of FBI source materials and have been placed under seal by the court and are not part of the public record.

-----------------------------------------------------

The attorney who was able to obtain a declaration from Terry Nichols fingering an FBI agent as directing Timothy McVeigh says that the documents attached to the affidavit indicate that the Oklahoma City bombing was an inside job.

"I didn't start out to solve the Oklahoma City bombing, I started out to find out who killed my brother and why," Jesse Trentadue told the Alex Jones Show.

In January 1996, Trentadue received an anonymous phone call telling him that his brother Kenneth had been murdered by the FBI in a case of mistaken identity because his brother had fit the profile of a member of a group called the Midwest Bank Robbery Gang that had been robbing banks to fund an attack on the federal government.

"Of course I dismissed it, I thought it was far fetched, unbelievable," said Trentadue, who said he ignored it until months later when he read a story in the L.A. Times about a man named Richard Lee Guthrie, also a member of the robbery gang, who was found hanging in his cell while in federal custody a day before he was due to give a confessional interview about the Oklahoma City bombing.

"Shortly before he was executed I received a message from Timothy McVeigh who told me that when he saw my brother's photograph and heard what happened to him, he knew the FBI had killed my brother because they mistook him from Richard Lee Guthrie."

Trentadue said he believes Guthrie was John Doe 2, McVeigh's accomplice in carrying out the attack on the Alfred P. Murrah building and an individual seen by multiple eyewitnesses yet omitted from the official story by the authorities. Guthrie and Kenneth Trentadue's physical description and movements were exactly the same, right down to the dragon tattoo on each's left forearm.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/february2007/230207jesse.jpg

Jesse Trentadue stands in front of a portrait of his brother Kenneth who Trentadue claims was murdered by the FBI because he was mistaken with OKC bombing conspirator Richard Lee Guthrie.

Kenneth Trentadue's autopsy photos clearly betray a violent beating and torture as the cause of his death. The official explanation of suicide is completely inconsistent with the physical evidence.

"I didn't start out to solve the bombing, I started out to find the men who killed my brother," said Trentadue, "but every trail has taken me back to the bombing."

This is what led Trentadue to file a lawsuit in Utah ordering the FBI to release all documents relating to a failed sting operation they were running at a white supremacist paramilitary training camp in Elohim City, eastern Oklahoma, and its connection to the bombing on April 19 1995.

In being given unprecedented access to speak to McVeigh's accused co-conspirator Terry Nichols, Trentadue was able to discover that, according to Nichols, Attorney General's Ashcroft's office gagged Nichols from speaking to the media after it became apparent that McVeigh's accomplices and government ties to the bombing were in danger of leaking.

"Apparently before he had contacted me several years ago he had written to Attorney General Ashcroft, volunteering to tell everything about the bombing and the others involved," said Trentadue.

"Not only did no one from Attorney General Ashcroft's office follow up with Nichols, they actually apparently issued an order barring him from all contact with the media - it was thereafter that he reached out to me and I was able to get in to see him to spend a day and half with him."

During the process of his lawsuit, Trentadue was able to receive documents with names blacked out that show the FBI's OKC bombing informants were conducting armed robberies with Timothy McVeigh in order to fund the construction of the fertilizer bomb used in the attack on the federal building.

"One of the foreign informants was actually the explosives instructor who taught him how to make the bomb," said Trentadue, confirming that Nichols told him the criminal activities were part of a process of creating a ledger or a storyboard to which the government's version of events could later be pinned to.

The documents also show that McVeigh called Elohim City two days before the bombing asking for help. Four months before the bombing, an FBI informant told his superiors of the attack plan and said that the Alfred P. Murrah building had been scouted.

Trentadue said that Nichols is desperate to tell his story, but cannot yet go into full detail because of the court order that sealed the affidavit. He stated that he is surprised Nichols is still alive considering the amount of suspicious deaths that have occurred as a result of the cover-up. Trentadue's own insurance policy was that he immediately went public with any information he uncovered.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/february2007/230207nichols.jpg
Terry Nichols

Trentadue said that the only way Nichols' story will ever get out is if a videotaped deposition is allowed.

"You cannot tell that whole story in a declaration," said Trentadue, adding that the more important information was contained in documents attached to the affidavit, most of which were from the FBI and Tim McVeigh's defense team.

When asked if the documents detail the fact that the Oklahoma City bombing was an inside job, Trentadue responded, "I read them that way, I read them that there's others involved."

"My feeling is that the FBI fumbled the ball so badly at Waco and Ruby Ridge that I do remember this - they were under constant pressure and criticism from Congress and from the media and from the public."

"I think they put together this harebrained idea at Elohim City to lure in all these militia groups under the pretense of teaching them how to rob banks in armored cars and attack the federal government and I think they planned to catch them in the act," said Trentadue.

"The accusations that I have made against the FBI are that they set up this operation, that they had informants who robbed banks with McVeigh to fund the attacks, that they had an informant who was the explosives instructor who taught them how to make the bomb and it got away from them - they have not once denied those accusations, they have just begged this federal judge not to order the release of the documents," the attorney concluded.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/february2007/000COURT_021607_NICHOLS.pdf

http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/february2007/000COURT_021607_HAMMER.pdf

http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/february2007/000COURT_021607_MOTION.pdf

The attached exhibits to the declarations mainly consist of FBI source materials and have been placed under seal by the court and are not part of the public record.

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/OKC_Trentadue.htm

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/february2007/230207insidejob.htm

banyon
09-01-2009, 08:28 PM
orange, cmon man, didn't you know that every event of the last 100 years has been an inside job. LMAO

KILLER_CLOWN
09-01-2009, 08:33 PM
orange, cmon man, didn't you know that every event of the last 100 years has been an inside job. LMAO

Kind of like this thread right? :)

Saul Good
09-01-2009, 08:33 PM
orange, cmon man, didn't you know that every event of the last 100 years has been an inside job. LMAO

Bush blasted the levees.

(As a side note, I looked up "bush levees dynamite" and the first result was infowars.)

KILLER_CLOWN
09-01-2009, 08:37 PM
Bush blasted the levees.

(As a side note, I looked up "bush levees dynamite" and the first result was infowars.)

heres the story



Locals believe Levees were Intentionally blown
Evidence suggests there were "cracks" in levees that were intentionally ignored, questions over how they failed.

Prisonplanet | September 9 2005
By Steve Watson

Could the levees in New Orleans have been INTENTIONALLY blown out in order to save sections of the city deemed to be more important?

The locals certainly seem to think so, yet, as usual, the mainstream media is barely picking up on this wave of opinion, so it is left to us once again to bring the issue into the open.

RELATED:

FEMA Deliberately Sabotaging Hurricane Relief Efforts

Government Sabotage Of Hurricane Katrina Relief Efforts

When Katrina hit, it drifted 15 miles to the east of where forecasters said it would strike. Therfore it wasn't quite the monster described. The storm passed through with relatively minor damage, it was the the storm surge from the Gulf that caused Lake Pontchartrain to rise three feet and the subsequent flooding. Katrina hit early on Monday 29th August, the levees broke in three places - along the Industrial Canal, the 17th Street Canal, and the London Street Canal.

The main storm surge from Hurricane Katrina washed into Lake Pontchartrain at around 7AM on August 29th when the counterclockwise motion of Katrina was pushing water from the Gulf of Mexico into the lake.


(Click here for a Map )


Some are questioning the timeline of the levee failures, suggesting that there was a 21 hour discrepancy between the storm surge and the collapse of the levees . This is not the case. The first levee broke just a few hours after the hurricane hit on the same morning.

This confusion may have arisen due to the fact that Homeland Security Chief Michael Chertoff has said that the levees broke overnight between Monday-Tuesday, and theat he was not informed of this til midday Tuesday.

The breach of the 17th Street Canal levee resulted in the failure of a crucial pumping station nearby, according to a statement made by New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin.

However, it seems that this exact scenario was expected and ignored. In an interview with New Orleans radio station local radio station WWL-AM, Nagin revealed how irate he was that this had been allowed to happen:

Nagin: You know what really upsets me, Garland? We told everybody the importance of the 17th Street Canal issue. We said, "Please, please take care of this. We don't care what you do. Figure it out."

WWL: Who'd you say that to?

Nagin: Everybody: the governor, Homeland Security, FEMA. You name it, we said it. And they allowed that pumping station next to Pumping Station 6 to go under water. Our sewage and water board people ... stayed there and endangered their lives. And what happened when that pumping station went down, the water started flowing again in the city, and it starting getting to levels that probably killed more people. In addition to that, we had water flowing through the pipes in the city. That's a power station over there. So there's no water flowing anywhere on the east bank of Orleans Parish. So our critical water supply was destroyed because of lack of action.

It has emerged though that some kind of work was carried out on the 17th Street Canal levee. Reports have suggested that the funding was not there to complete the job, but some work had been done:

"The Senate was seeking to restore some of the SELA funding cuts for 2006. But now it's too late. One project that a contractor had been racing to finish this summer was a bridge and levee job right at the 17th Street Canal, site of the main breach on Monday."

Of course we know that it was the White House that slashed funding for such projects in order to pump more money into the war in Iraq.

According to the New York Times, Dr. Shea Penland of the Pontchartrain Institute was surprised because the break was "along a section that was just upgraded. It did not have an earthen levee, it had a vertical concrete wall several feet thick."

It also seems that the broken section of the Industrial Canal levee was having "construction" work done on it recently.

New York Times science reporter Dr. Andrew Revkin has stated of the 17th Street Canal that "officials and [Army Corps] engineers said that after they had found the widening gap in the concrete wall on the eastern side of the canal, they had no quick-response plan to repair it."

Lt. Gen. Carl A. Strock, commander of the corps, said "plugging the gap was a lower priority." The corps is directed by FEMA. "It is FEMA who is really calling the shots and setting priorities here,"

Alfred C. Naomi, a senior project manager for the corps, was quoted in the same article as saying "there were still no clear hints why the main breach in the flood barriers occurred along the 17th Street Canal, normally a conduit for vast streams of water pumped out of the perpetually waterlogged city each day and which did not take the main force of the waves roiling the lake. He said that a low spot marked on survey charts of the levees near the spot that ruptured was unrelated and that the depression was where a new bridge crossed the narrow canal near the lakefront."

This would refute the speculation that a dip in the retaining levee or walls might have allowed water to slop over and start the collapse. So we have an unexplained crack in several feet of concrete. FEMA decided not to plug it and let the water flow until a US city was flooded and thousands had drowned.

Dynamite? History repeating itself?

Many locals have come forward to suggest that the levees were breached on purpose by the authorities. Resident Andrea Garland, now re-located to Texas, wrote in her blog:

"Also heard that part of the reason our house flooded is they dynamited part of the levee after the first section broke - they did this to prevent Uptown (the rich part of town) from being flooded. Apparently they used too much dynamite, thus flooding part of the Bywater. So now I know who is responsible for flooding my house - not Katrina, but our government."

This scenario is not so crazy as it sounds, in fact this exact thing has happened before in the same city. In 1927, the Mississippi River broke its banks in 145 places, depositing water at depths of up to 30ft over 27,000 square miles of land.

The disaster changed American society, shifting hundreds of thousands of delta-dwelling blacks into northern cities and cementing the divisions and suspicions that benign neglect has ensured remain today. New Orleans’ (mainly white) business class pressurised the state to dynamite a levee upstream, releasing water into (mainly black) areas of the delta. Black workers were forced to work on flood relief at gunpoint, like slaves.

Two parishes, St. Bernard and Plaquemines, which had a combined population of 10,000, were destroyed. Just before Katrina, these parishes had about 10 times the 1927 population. Both parishes are now under many feet of water.

This information is covered in depth in a book by John M. Barry entitled Rising Tide: The Great Mississippi Flood of 1927 and how it Changed America, 1997 which has incidentally become heavily in demand after Katrina.

Furthermore, levees were also intentionally broke after Hurricane Betsy struck New Orleans in 1965, admittedly with less of an impact. The tactic of breaking the dikes is not uncommon, as this CNN report on China's floodplains highlights.

Engineers have now punched holes in several levees in parts of New Orleans where flood levels were higher than the water in drainage canals leading to Pontchartrain, in order to let water flow out.

Did the authorities decide to sacrifice the poor folks and blow the levees in order to save the French Quarter of New Orleans which houses the richer residents, the lucrative historical buildings and thousands of businesses?

Explosions?

There were reports of many explosions heard in New Orleans, officials say they were transformers blowing up. Total Information Analysis has reported a claim by intelligence expert Tom Heneghen that 25 earwitnesses cited explosions immediately before the levee breach.

Similar reports are now appearing in many web blogs:

"He also mentioned that right before the mass flood there was a loud sound like an explosion." - News from St. Bernard

"I'll tell you the worst thing I've heard and I heard it from my mother. She said she heard several blasts - big booms - right before the levees broke. Several blasts and then all the water came pouring in." - aangirfan

Although these are obviously not authoritative sources of information, it is interesting to note how many local people are reporting this. So interesting in fact that the mainstream has picked up on it in places.

The Washington Post reported on the comments of a retired school teacher:

"Mullen has a schoolteacher's kindly demeanor, so it was jarring to hear him say he suspected that the levee breaks had somehow been engineered to keep the wealthy French Quarter and Garden District dry at the expense of poor black neighborhoods like the Lower Ninth Ward -- a suspicion I heard from many other black survivors."

The Globe and Mail is also carrying a similar story.

ABC World News Tonight carried a report which contained an interview with a local, who described how a flloating barge had rammed the levee. The man seemed convined that the levee was purposefully broken. A transcript of which has appeared on the net:

David Muir: “Was it solely the water that broke the levee? Or was it the force of this barge that now sits where homes once did? Joe Edwards says neither. People are so bitter, so disenfranchised in this neighborhood, they actually think the city did it, blowing up the levee to save richer neighborhoods, like the French Quarter.”
Muir to Edwards as they stand on a bridge: “So you're convinced-”
Edwards: “I knows it happened.”
Muir: “-that they broke the levee on purpose?”
Edwards: “They blew it.”
Muir: “New Orleans’ Mayor says there's no credence to this.”
Mayor Ray Nagin: “That storm was so powerful and it pushed so much water -- there's no way anyone could have calculated -- would dynamite the levee to have the kind of impact to save the French Quarter.”
Muir concluded: “An LSU expert who looked at the video today, says that while the barge may have caused it, it was most likely the sheer force of the water that brought the levee, along the lower 9th ward, down.”

The mysterious barge story has also been reported by many other local residents. "The evacuees who witnessed the barge striking the levee also want to know why the major media is not covering this story."

The London Observer carried an intriguing story of a man named Correll Williams, a 19-year-old meat cutter. The article states that:

"Williams only left his apartment after the authorities took the decision to flood his district in an apparent attempt to sluice out some of the water that had submerged a neighbouring district. Like hundreds of others he had heard the news of the decision to flood his district on the radio. The authorities had given people in the district until 5pm on Tuesday to get out - after that they would open the floodgates."

So it's clear that barriers WERE being broken in an attempt to protect areas of the city.

Some final intruiging footage reveals a journalist questioning former President Bill Clinton as to why many locals feel that the levees were purposefully broken. This was during the press conference with Clinton and George Bush Snr announcing their combined "relief effort" for New Orleans. Ignore the first 15 minutes of sickening joking and backslapping between the two and skip to the last minute of footage. Upon hearing the question Clinton appears to be surprised and then simply walks off.

http://www.infowars.com/articles/new_orleans/locals_believe_levees_blown_intentionally.htm

orange
09-01-2009, 08:37 PM
April 17, 2007

In the brief, Trentadue contends he has documented that at least seven informants were involved with McVeigh and his associates. The informants were allegedly participating in sting operations targeting a white-supremacist compound in Oklahoma and a gang suspected of robbing banks to fund attacks on government buildings. McVeigh, who was executed in 2001, had links to both, Trentadue says.

He alleges that the sting involving the white-supremacist compound a Christian Identity settlement in Adair County, Okla., called Elohim City was a joint operation by the FBI and the Southern Poverty Law Center, a civil rights organization based in Alabama. He claims there is evidence that the SPLC, which heard about the impending attack from the informants, warned the FBI.

SPLC director Mark Potok could not be reached Monday, but previously has said his group never had an informant or anyone else at the compound and did not know about the plot.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007/170407_b_Lawyer.htm



You're falling behind.

orange
09-01-2009, 08:42 PM
And of course, the CIA was involved - from JUST TODAY:


Oklahoma City Bombing Witness Linked to CIA
Kurt Nimmo
Infowars
September 1, 2009

Additional information on the OKC bombing disclosed in Salt Lake City attorney Jesse Trentadue’s lawsuit against the government reveals a role played by the CIA. Trentadue has filed FOIA requests as part of an investigation into the death of his brother while in federal custody.

“If I told you what we were doing there, I would have to kill you,” Morris Dees of the Southern Poverty Law Center told reporters when asked about his informants at Elohim City.

In response to Trentadue’s FOIA request, the CIA filed what is known as a Vaughn Index, a summary of withheld classified information. The index reveals a CIA connection to events following the April 19, 1995, bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in downtown Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.

The Vaughn Index reveals that a potential witness in the Oklahoma City Bombing trial was associated with the CIA. The document describes “contacts between the CIA and the potential witness,” and also contains information on “the location of a covert CIA facility,” according to Intelwire. Mention of the covert CIA facility is mentioned in a cable sent on the day of the OKC bombing.

In addition, the document mentions a CIA cryptogram, CIA intelligence limitations and capabilities, and CIA records searches related to Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols.

The index also mentions U.S. citizens who allegedly attended a PAIC (Popular Arab Islamic Conference) in Sudan. “The annual Sudan-based conference was known as a nexus for Islamic terrorist leaders including Al Qaeda members,” J.M. Berger writes for Intelwire.

Following the OKC attack, multiple reports surfaced reporting Arabs at the scene of the bombing with Timothy McVeigh. This is information is unconfirmed, however, due to the fact surveillance tapes of the bombing were withheld under national security.

In the days following the bombing, the FBI shifted blame to the American militia movement. On April 21, lead FBI investigator at Waco, Clinton Van Zandt of the FBI’s Behavioral Science Unit, told other agents to look for a “white male… with military experience and… a member of some militia group… angry for what happened at Ruby Ridge and Waco,” according to Douglas O. Linder, author of The Oklahoma City Bombing & The Trial of Timothy McVeigh.

In 2004, Intelwire published information claiming an al-Qaeda link to the OKC bombing. “New information, reported for the first time by INTELWIRE, provides a fully documented record of al Qaeda’s efforts to recruit U.S. veterans as terrorist operatives at critical moments in the Oklahoma City timeline,” Berger wrote in December, 2004. Berger claims John Doe 2 may have been Jose Padilla, the Hispanic American supposedly recruited as an al-Qaeda operative in early 1993 and subsequently arrested an accused of plotting a dirty bomb attack.

Al-Qaeda is a documented CIA asset created in collaboration with Pakistan’s ISI.

Evidence uncovered by Jesse Trentadue, however, points to FBI involvement in the bombing, not al-Qaeda or shady Arab terrorists. “During the process of his lawsuit, Trentadue was able to receive documents with names blacked out that show the FBI’s OKC bombing informants were conducting armed robberies with Timothy McVeigh in order to fund the construction of the fertilizer bomb used in the attack on the federal building,” Paul Joseph Watson and Alex Jones wrote on February 22, 2007. “The documents also show that McVeigh called Elohim City two days before the bombing asking for help. Four months before the bombing, an FBI informant told his superiors of the attack plan and said that the Alfred P. Murrah building had been scouted.”

In 2004, a declassified FBI memo obtained by an Oklahoma newspaper revealed the existence of a Southern Poverty Law Center informant connected to the Elohim City operation. “References to an informant working for the SPLC at Elohim City on the eve of the Oklahoma City bombing raises serious questions as to what the SPLC might know about McVeigh’s activities during the final hours before the fuse was lit in Oklahoma City – but which the SPLC has failed to disclose publicly, the newspaper reported.

Additional FOIA documents establish the fact the FBI was working with the SPLC. An unclassified copy of a memorandum marked “From the Director of the FBI” contains several references to an FBI undercover operation at Elohim City before the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building and also mentions the SPLC informant.

“If I told you what we were doing there, I would have to kill you,” Morris Dees of the Southern Poverty Law Center told reporters.

The SPLC has played an instrumental role in attempting to link the militia movement to domestic terrorist activities.

The CIA connection to the OKC trial is not definitive evidence that the agency was involved in the attack. However, it further undermines the official story and also raises questions about CIA domestic operations that are illegal under its charter.

Since at least the 1960s, the CIA has created liaisons with local police departments and trained special intelligence units to carry out “black bag” jobs against official enemies, specifically under Operation CHAOS.

http://survivalstation.org/blog/oklahoma-city-bombing-witness-linked-to-cia-1333.html


What's with all these outside sites for infowars/pp? False flag operations? Or is it just "so many conspiracies, so little bandwidth?"

KILLER_CLOWN
09-01-2009, 08:47 PM
And of course, the CIA was involved - from JUST TODAY:


Oklahoma City Bombing Witness Linked to CIA
Kurt Nimmo
Infowars
September 1, 2009

Additional information on the OKC bombing disclosed in Salt Lake City attorney Jesse Trentadue’s lawsuit against the government reveals a role played by the CIA. Trentadue has filed FOIA requests as part of an investigation into the death of his brother while in federal custody.

“If I told you what we were doing there, I would have to kill you,” Morris Dees of the Southern Poverty Law Center told reporters when asked about his informants at Elohim City.

In response to Trentadue’s FOIA request, the CIA filed what is known as a Vaughn Index, a summary of withheld classified information. The index reveals a CIA connection to events following the April 19, 1995, bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in downtown Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.

The Vaughn Index reveals that a potential witness in the Oklahoma City Bombing trial was associated with the CIA. The document describes “contacts between the CIA and the potential witness,” and also contains information on “the location of a covert CIA facility,” according to Intelwire. Mention of the covert CIA facility is mentioned in a cable sent on the day of the OKC bombing.

In addition, the document mentions a CIA cryptogram, CIA intelligence limitations and capabilities, and CIA records searches related to Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols.

The index also mentions U.S. citizens who allegedly attended a PAIC (Popular Arab Islamic Conference) in Sudan. “The annual Sudan-based conference was known as a nexus for Islamic terrorist leaders including Al Qaeda members,” J.M. Berger writes for Intelwire.

Following the OKC attack, multiple reports surfaced reporting Arabs at the scene of the bombing with Timothy McVeigh. This is information is unconfirmed, however, due to the fact surveillance tapes of the bombing were withheld under national security.

In the days following the bombing, the FBI shifted blame to the American militia movement. On April 21, lead FBI investigator at Waco, Clinton Van Zandt of the FBI’s Behavioral Science Unit, told other agents to look for a “white male… with military experience and… a member of some militia group… angry for what happened at Ruby Ridge and Waco,” according to Douglas O. Linder, author of The Oklahoma City Bombing & The Trial of Timothy McVeigh.

In 2004, Intelwire published information claiming an al-Qaeda link to the OKC bombing. “New information, reported for the first time by INTELWIRE, provides a fully documented record of al Qaeda’s efforts to recruit U.S. veterans as terrorist operatives at critical moments in the Oklahoma City timeline,” Berger wrote in December, 2004. Berger claims John Doe 2 may have been Jose Padilla, the Hispanic American supposedly recruited as an al-Qaeda operative in early 1993 and subsequently arrested an accused of plotting a dirty bomb attack.

Al-Qaeda is a documented CIA asset created in collaboration with Pakistan’s ISI.

Evidence uncovered by Jesse Trentadue, however, points to FBI involvement in the bombing, not al-Qaeda or shady Arab terrorists. “During the process of his lawsuit, Trentadue was able to receive documents with names blacked out that show the FBI’s OKC bombing informants were conducting armed robberies with Timothy McVeigh in order to fund the construction of the fertilizer bomb used in the attack on the federal building,” Paul Joseph Watson and Alex Jones wrote on February 22, 2007. “The documents also show that McVeigh called Elohim City two days before the bombing asking for help. Four months before the bombing, an FBI informant told his superiors of the attack plan and said that the Alfred P. Murrah building had been scouted.”

In 2004, a declassified FBI memo obtained by an Oklahoma newspaper revealed the existence of a Southern Poverty Law Center informant connected to the Elohim City operation. “References to an informant working for the SPLC at Elohim City on the eve of the Oklahoma City bombing raises serious questions as to what the SPLC might know about McVeigh’s activities during the final hours before the fuse was lit in Oklahoma City – but which the SPLC has failed to disclose publicly, the newspaper reported.

Additional FOIA documents establish the fact the FBI was working with the SPLC. An unclassified copy of a memorandum marked “From the Director of the FBI” contains several references to an FBI undercover operation at Elohim City before the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building and also mentions the SPLC informant.

“If I told you what we were doing there, I would have to kill you,” Morris Dees of the Southern Poverty Law Center told reporters.

The SPLC has played an instrumental role in attempting to link the militia movement to domestic terrorist activities.

The CIA connection to the OKC trial is not definitive evidence that the agency was involved in the attack. However, it further undermines the official story and also raises questions about CIA domestic operations that are illegal under its charter.

Since at least the 1960s, the CIA has created liaisons with local police departments and trained special intelligence units to carry out “black bag” jobs against official enemies, specifically under Operation CHAOS.

http://survivalstation.org/blog/oklahoma-city-bombing-witness-linked-to-cia-1333.html


What's with all these outside sites for infowars/pp? False flag operations? Or is it just "so many conspiracies, so little bandwidth?"

Keep posting the stories i won't have to visit there as often. Also they link all over.