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billay
09-02-2009, 01:11 PM
Bush's Third Term?
You're Living It
By David Swanson

It sounds like the plot for the latest summer horror movie. Imagine, for a moment, that George W. Bush had been allowed a third term as president, had run and had won or stolen it, and that we were all now living (and dying) through it. With the Democrats in control of Congress but Bush still in the Oval Office, the media would certainly be talking endlessly about a mandate for bipartisanship and the importance of taking into account the concerns of Republicans. Can't you just picture it?

There's Dubya now, still rewriting laws via signing statements. Still creating and destroying laws with executive orders. And still violating laws at his whim. Imagine Bush continuing his policy of extraordinary rendition, sending prisoners off to other countries with grim interrogation reputations to be held and tortured. I can even picture him formalizing his policy of preventive detention, sprucing it up with some "due process" even as he permanently removes habeas corpus from our culture.

I picture this demonic president still swearing he doesn't torture, still insisting that he wants to close Guantanamo, but assuring his subordinates that the commander-in-chief has the power to torture "if needed," and maintaining a prison at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan that makes Guantanamo look like summer camp. I can imagine him continuing to keep secret his warrantless spying programs while protecting the corporations and government officials involved.

If Bush were in his third term, we would already have seen him propose, yet again, the largest military budget in the history of the world. We might well have seen him pretend he was including war funding in the standard budget, and then claim that one final supplemental war budget was still needed, immediately after which he would surely announce that yet another war supplemental bill would be needed down the road. And of course, he would have held onto his Secretary of Defense from his second term, Robert Gates, to run the Pentagon, keep our ongoing wars rolling along, and oversee the better part of our public budget.

Bush would undoubtedly be following through on the agreement he signed with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki for all U.S. troops to leave Iraq by the end of 2011 (except where he chose not to follow through). His generals would, in the meantime, be leaking word that the United States never intended to actually leave. He'd surely be maintaining current levels of troops in Iraq, while sending thousands more troops to Afghanistan and talking about a new "surge" there. He'd probably also be escalating the campaign he launched late in his second term to use drone aircraft to illegally and repeatedly strike into Pakistan's tribal borderlands with Afghanistan.

If Bush were still "the decider" he'd be employing mercenaries like Blackwater and propagandists like the Rendon Group and he might even be expanding the number of private security contractors in Afghanistan. In fact, the whole executive branch would be packed with disreputable corporate executive types. You'd have somebody like John ("May I torture this one some more, please?") Rizzo still serving, at least for a while, as general counsel at the CIA. The White House and Justice Department would be crawling with corporate cronies, people like John Brennan, Greg Craig, James Jones, and Eric Holder. Most of the top prosecutors hired at the Department of Justice for political purposes would still be on the job. And political prisoners, like former Alabama Governor Don Siegelman and former top Democratic donor Paul Minor would still be abandoned to their fate.

In addition, the bank bailouts Bush and his economic team initiated in his second term would still be rolling along -- with a similar crowd of people running the show. Ben Bernanke, for instance, would certainly have been reappointed to run the Fed. And Bush's third term would have guaranteed that there would be none of the monkeying around with the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) that the Democrats proposed or promised in their losing presidential campaign. At this point in Bush's third term, no significant new effort would have begun to restore Katrina-decimated New Orleans either.

If the Democrats in Congress attempted to pass any set of needed reforms like, to take an example, new healthcare legislation, Bush, the third termer, would have held secret meetings in the White House with insurance and drug company executives to devise a means to turn such proposals to their advantage. And he would have refused to release the visitor logs so that the American public would have no way of knowing just whom he'd been talking to.

During Bush's second term, some of the lowest ranking torturers from Abu Ghraib were prosecuted as bad apples, while those officials responsible for the policies that led to Abu Ghraib remained untouched. If the public continued to push for justice for torturers during the early months of Bush's third term, he would certainly have gone with another bad apple approach, perhaps targeting only low-ranking CIA interrogators and CIA contractors for prosecution. Bush would undoubtedly have decreed that any higher-ups would not be touched, that we should now be looking forward, not backward. And he would thereby have cemented in place the power of presidents to grant immunity for crimes they themselves authorized.

If Bush were in his third term, some of his first and second term secrets might, by now, have been forced out into the open by lawsuits, but what Americans actually read wouldn't be significantly worse than what we'd already known. What documents saw the light of day would surely have had large portions of their pages redacted, and the vast bulk of documentation that might prove threatening would remain hidden from the public eye. Bush's lawyers would be fighting in court, with ever grander claims of executive power, to keep his wrongdoing out of sight.

Now, here's the funny part. This dark fantasy of a third Bush term is also an accurate portrait of Obama's first term to date. In following Bush, Obama was given the opportunity either to restore the rule of law and the balance of powers or to firmly establish in place what were otherwise aberrant abuses of power. Thus far, President Obama has, in all the areas mentioned above, chosen the latter course. Everything described, from the continuation of crimes to the efforts to hide them away, from the corruption of corporate power to the assertion of the executive power to legislate, is Obama's presidency in its first seven months.

Which doesn't mean there aren't differences in the two moments. For one thing, Democrats have now joined Republicans in approving expanded presidential powers and even -- in the case of wars, military strikes, lawless detention and rendition, warrantless spying, and the obstruction of justice -- presidential crimes. In addition, in the new Democratic era of goodwill, peace and justice movements have been strikingly defunded and, in some cases, even shut down. Many progressive groups now, in fact, take their signals from the president and his team, rather than bringing the public's demands to his doorstep.

If we really were in Bush's third term, people would be far more active and outraged. There would already be a major push to really end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan/Pakistan. Undoubtedly, the Democrats still wouldn't impeach Bush, especially since they'd be able to vote him out before his fourth term, and surely four more years of him wouldn't make all that much difference.

orange
09-02-2009, 01:15 PM
HonestChieffan will be along any minute to declare that this proves the liberals who are unhappy with Obama will be voting for conservative Republicans next year.

billay
09-02-2009, 01:18 PM
It's too bad Obama is the Grover Cleveland of this generation.

ROYC75
09-02-2009, 02:06 PM
Bottom line is nobody is ever happy with the government or politicians. We always get to choose the lessor of 2 evils, sometimes we choose wrong.

wild1
09-02-2009, 02:11 PM
It's too bad Obama is the Jimmy Carter of this generation.

fixed!

patteeu
09-02-2009, 02:18 PM
I can see how from a naive and extreme perspective, very far removed from mainstream American politics (in either direction) that it would look that way.

Inspector
09-02-2009, 02:20 PM
Did he even run for a 3rd term?

(I'm a little out of touch about political stuff...)

patteeu
09-02-2009, 02:33 PM
Did he even run for a 3rd term?

(I'm a little out of touch about political stuff...)

:LOL: If you'd stop being a groupie for that Vedera band, you might have time to keep up with the communist revolution we're experiencing. Ah... who am I kidding? You're probably better off jamming to your kid's band in blissful ignorance of the crumbling world around you. :p

mlyonsd
09-02-2009, 04:30 PM
If we were in Bush's third term the libs would be whining about budget deficits, no matter what he was spending money on.

BucEyedPea
09-02-2009, 04:42 PM
It's too bad Obama is the Grover Cleveland of this generation.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat? He was the last good Democrat. The libertarian from Buffalo. He supported: state's rights, strict constructionism, Jeffersonian govt, generally championed free trade and laissez faire over Lincolnian mercantilism ( Hamiltonianism). He was known as the Veto Mayor and the Veto Governor when in those offices. He did not support inflated government contracts with politically-connected firms. As president Cleveland vetoed hundreds of pension expansion bills in his first term. He was a crusader for sound money and lower tariffs making him an enemy the Republicans who favored those things due to mercantilist/militaristic interests.

"The lessons of paternalism ought to be unlearned and the better lesson taught that while the people should patriotically and cheerfully support their Government its functions do not include the support of the people." -- Cleveland's 2nd Inaugural

Barack Obama is NO Grover Cleveland! ( LOL!)

billay
09-02-2009, 06:26 PM
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat? He was the last good Democrat. The libertarian from Buffalo. He supported: state's rights, strict constructionism, Jeffersonian govt, generally championed free trade and laissez faire over Lincolnian mercantilism ( Hamiltonianism). He was known as the Veto Mayor and the Veto Governor when in those offices. He did not support inflated government contracts with politically-connected firms. As president Cleveland vetoed hundreds of pension expansion bills in his first term. He was a crusader for sound money and lower tariffs making him an enemy the Republicans who favored those things due to mercantilist/militaristic interests.



Barack Obama is NO Grover Cleveland! ( LOL!)

Grover Cleveland was a corporate Democrat, so is Obama. The Last good Democrat was JFK ( Wanted to get the troops out of Vietnam and end the Fed.)

memyselfI
09-02-2009, 07:24 PM
A year ago I began calling Lite Bush lite. Now he's just Lite but has a severe case of the Regular wannabees

BucEyedPea
09-02-2009, 07:54 PM
Grover Cleveland was a corporate Democrat, so is Obama. The Last good Democrat was JFK ( Wanted to get the troops out of Vietnam and end the Fed.)

Link on Cleveland?

Cleveland was no socialist. Obama is. Don't think corps don't like some socialism. They do.

billay
09-02-2009, 09:09 PM
Link on Cleveland?

Cleveland was no socialist. Obama is. Don't think corps don't like some socialism. They do.

I was comparing Obama to Cleveland in reguards that both were corporate Democrats (of course corporations were alot different in the 1800's.) Since Cleveland was a corporate Democrat he didn't get much done as president. Thats the comparison I was going for. Obama won't get much done because in order to clean up Americas mess he would have to end the wars and go after the Federal Reserve.

J Diddy
09-02-2009, 09:13 PM
I was comparing Obama to Cleveland in reguards that both were corporate Democrats (of course corporations were alot different in the 1800's.) Since Cleveland was a corporate Democrat he didn't get much done as president. Thats the comparison I was going going. Obama won't get much done because in order to clean up Americas mess he would have to end the wars and go after the Federal Reserve.



Billay mommay said life was like a box of chocolates.

Don't be mean to obamay billay

Color Red
09-02-2009, 09:18 PM
Bottom line is nobody is ever happy with the government or politicians. We always get to choose the lessor of 2 evils, sometimes we choose wrong.

That's true. But in this case we chose a guy we chose to know little about and who had practically no experience, over a guy who had years of government service and record.

You'd like to cop out on this but it's true: We didn't choose wrong. You and enough others decided not to think critically about the process. Think it through next time.

J Diddy
09-02-2009, 09:22 PM
That's true. But in this case we chose a guy we chose to know little about and who had practically no experience, over a guy who had years of government service and record.

You'd like to cop out on this but it's true: We didn't choose wrong. You and enough others decided not to think critically about the process. Think it through next time.

Familiar is comfortable. Even when familiar is a blanket of poop, lined with a crazy alaskan lady. People love familiar. People thinking outside of their comfort zone for a better good (even though it may hurt or help the immediate future) is how progress is made.

patteeu
09-02-2009, 09:31 PM
That's true. But in this case we chose a guy we chose to know little about and who had practically no experience, over a guy who had years of government service and record.

You'd like to cop out on this but it's true: We didn't choose wrong. You and enough others decided not to think critically about the process. Think it through next time.

FYI, I doubt if ROYC75 was one of the people who chose wrong.

BucEyedPea
09-02-2009, 09:35 PM
I was comparing Obama to Cleveland in reguards that both were corporate Democrats (of course corporations were alot different in the 1800's.) Since Cleveland was a corporate Democrat he didn't get much done as president. Thats the comparison I was going for. Obama won't get much done because in order to clean up Americas mess he would have to end the wars and go after the Federal Reserve.

Not getting much done is what limited govt and liberty is about. I like that. That means that president stayed within his Constitutional bounds and didn't interfere in our lives including in markets. He was fiscally conservative.

But I digress that he was a corporatist sinc he did support inflated government contracts with politically-connected firms or tariffs that industrialists liked which protected their markets.

patteeu
09-02-2009, 09:37 PM
Familiar is comfortable. Even when familiar is a blanket of poop, lined with a crazy alaskan lady. People love familiar. People thinking outside of their comfort zone for a better good (even though it may hurt or help the immediate future) is how progress is made.

Castro/Chavez/Carter and countless others had supporters too and I bet a lot of them thought the outside the comfort zone thinking of those leaders was progress. It's only a good thing if you're really right.

billay
09-02-2009, 09:38 PM
Not getting much done is what limited govt and liberty is about. I like that. That means that president stayed within his Constitutional bounds and didn't interfere in our lives including in markets. He was fiscally conservative.

But I digress that he was a corporatist sinc he did support inflated government contracts with politically-connected firms or tariffs that industrialists liked which protected their markets.

Not getting anything done these days includes letting the fed run your economy. We'll need the government to abolish the fed and then get out of the way.

BucEyedPea
09-02-2009, 09:50 PM
Not getting anything done these days includes letting the fed run your economy. We'll need the government to abolish the fed and then get out of the way.

Obviously, an organization like the Fed is a canker sore on America that needs addressing. By "not getting anything done" I'm talking passing and adding more laws on the folks restricting our liberty which do more harm to our welfare which they pretend otherwise or that they think is for our own good. I don't mean getting rid of something bad. I also mean staying within our Constitutional mandate more too. Cleveland knew what to leave alone though.

BucEyedPea
09-02-2009, 09:53 PM
Familiar is comfortable. Even when familiar is a blanket of poop, lined with a crazy alaskan lady. People love familiar. People thinking outside of their comfort zone for a better good (even though it may hurt or help the immediate future) is how progress is made.

I agree with the general sentiment of this post of yours (minus the dig at the alaskan lady). But what is progress to some isn't to others. It depends on what we're progressing towards. That's the crux of the matter. Not all change leads to progress.

J Diddy
09-02-2009, 09:57 PM
Castro/Chavez/Carter and countless others had supporters too and I bet a lot of them thought the outside the comfort zone thinking of those leaders was progress. It's only a good thing if you're really right.

as did washington/franklin/adams/jefferson

J Diddy
09-02-2009, 10:01 PM
I agree with the general sentiment of this post of yours (minus the dig at the alaskan lady). But what is progress to some isn't to others. It depends on what we're progressing towards. That's the crux of the matter. Not all change leads to progress.


If there's one thing I know is we either get better or get worse. There is no standing put, so we must make a choice. I for one (despite my online persona) hold no ill will towards anyone who's passionate about where their country is going. I'll take passion over apathy any day. I believe I know what's best for the country. Others believe the same. The thing that drives me crazy is being dogged for my opinions. Human nature dictates I retaliate.


There in a nutshell is me.

SHTSPRAYER
09-02-2009, 10:02 PM
as did washington/franklin/adams/jefferson

shhhhhhhhhhyeah ok.

:rolleyes:

friggin moonbat.

BucEyedPea
09-02-2009, 10:04 PM
If there's one thing I know is we either get better or get worse.

Well, that's true too. Even with ourselves. If we're not improving ourselves we get worse. I understand about the need to retaliate. You can't survive in here without that.

J Diddy
09-02-2009, 10:05 PM
shhhhhhhhhhyeah ok.

:rolleyes:

friggin moonbat.



Nice intellectual response. So they didn't have a following?

patteeu
09-02-2009, 11:01 PM
as did washington/franklin/adams/jefferson

Obama's no Washington, but he may well be a Carter.

Inspector
09-03-2009, 06:00 AM
:LOL: If you'd stop being a groupie for that Vedera band, you might have time to keep up with the communist revolution we're experiencing. Ah... who am I kidding? You're probably better off jamming to your kid's band in blissful ignorance of the crumbling world around you. :p

Yeah...you're right. I watched some news last night and decided it was freaking me out too much so I went back to the Vedera jammin'...

Here are a few shots from their last tour. We went to their show at the Shoreline Ampitheatre in Mountain View California.

Enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MwsvhtkjJk

BucEyedPea
09-03-2009, 07:59 AM
Obama's no Washington, but he may well be a Carter.

Nope, he's worse than Carter. Carter at least started de-regulation and had MaBell busted up. Obama is an Allende.

Too bad most of the Rs aren't an alternative. Not with Bob Dole out there garnering support for Obama's HC takeover, nationalization of the financial sector under Bush.
Those pragmatists, gotta luv 'em!

patteeu
09-03-2009, 08:08 AM
Nope, he worse than Carter. Carter at least started de-regulation and had MaBell busted up. Obama is an Allende.

Too bad most of the Rs aren't an alternative. Not with Bob Dole out there garnering support for Obama's HC takeover, nationalization of the financial sector under Bush.
Those pragmatists, gotta luv 'em!

I agree that he's worse.

I thought I was on ignore? Can't live without me, huh?