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View Full Version : Life America's Greatest Villains: The Not So Sweet 16


Rain Man
09-04-2009, 10:41 AM
From 500 million Americans dead or alive, we picked 64 at the bottom of the heap to go head to head. Now we're down to 16 traitors, murderers, thieves, and liars.

Poll to follow.

Great Expectations
09-04-2009, 10:51 AM
Carlo Gambino is an American Hero, how did he make that list?

cdcox
09-04-2009, 10:54 AM
This is the first poll in this series that I voted in. I selected serial killers as being worse than traitors due to motivational considerations. I traitor often does his/her crime for a cause that they believe will lead to a better society. I may disagree with their point of view, but often it is a sacrificial act. A serial killer is usually doing it to get their nut off. It is a completely selfish act that has no greater purpose outside their own personal satisfaction.

ClevelandBronco
09-04-2009, 10:56 AM
For clarity's sake, what makes up a pair?

EDIT: Forget it. Match 1, Match 2, etc...

ChiefJustice
09-04-2009, 10:57 AM
This is the first poll in this series that I voted in. I selected serial killers as being worse than traitors due to motivational considerations. I traitor often does his/her crime for a cause that they believe will lead to a better society. I may disagree with their point of view, but often it is a sacrificial act. A serial killer is usually doing it to get their nut off. It is a completely selfish act that has no greater purpose outside their own personal satisfaction.

Arnold left his wife behind(to cover for his ass) when he knew the jig was up.That isn't exactly honorable and does seem a bit selfish.

Rain Man
09-04-2009, 11:11 AM
Here's a good article about Aldrich Ames, the guy I'm stumping to win the title: http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/terrorists_spies/spies/ames/1.html

DA_T_84
09-04-2009, 11:33 AM
Whoever is voting for BTK is a homer

Dicky McElephant
09-04-2009, 11:36 AM
How the fuck is Ed Gein losing to Ted Bundy? That was one fucked up guy.

Rain Man
09-04-2009, 11:37 AM
This is the first poll in this series that I voted in. I selected serial killers as being worse than traitors due to motivational considerations. I traitor often does his/her crime for a cause that they believe will lead to a better society. I may disagree with their point of view, but often it is a sacrificial act. A serial killer is usually doing it to get their nut off. It is a completely selfish act that has no greater purpose outside their own personal satisfaction.


That's an interesting point, and why I have a little trouble voting for John Wilkes Booth. The guy killed one of America's greatest figures, and he did it for a cause that was attempting to rip the U.S. apart. That's pretty bad. But at the same time, there was a logic and a reason behind what he did.

The serial killers are certainly great villains on their face, and their acts are horrific. But their greater impact is relatively small, unless perhaps one assumes a greater paranoia in society as a result of their collective presence.

For these reasons, I tend to gravitate toward the gangsters and the spies. The gangsters are obviously working for personal gain, and have a reasonably wide impact. In some cases, the impact is very large. Plus, they have an intimidating power beyond that of serial killers or traitors that damages society.

The spies, though, are my top contenders. Most of them, it seems to me, aren't acting out of ideology, but rather have their own selfish motives. It's money or it's ego in many cases, the latter seeming to be common as these are often guys who want to be big shots and are not. Aldrich Ames compromised dozens of American intelligence operations and directly caused American spies to be killed, and he did it so he could drive a Jaguar and buy clothes for his disgusting wife. He pointed at individuals who were taking great risks and had them killed. So in my opinion, guys like him had selfish motives, directly caused murders of American spies, and potentially caused damage to every American.

cdcox
09-04-2009, 12:31 PM
That's an interesting point, and why I have a little trouble voting for John Wilkes Booth. The guy killed one of America's greatest figures, and he did it for a cause that was attempting to rip the U.S. apart. That's pretty bad. But at the same time, there was a logic and a reason behind what he did.

The serial killers are certainly great villains on their face, and their acts are horrific. But their greater impact is relatively small, unless perhaps one assumes a greater paranoia in society as a result of their collective presence.

For these reasons, I tend to gravitate toward the gangsters and the spies. The gangsters are obviously working for personal gain, and have a reasonably wide impact. In some cases, the impact is very large. Plus, they have an intimidating power beyond that of serial killers or traitors that damages society.

The spies, though, are my top contenders. Most of them, it seems to me, aren't acting out of ideology, but rather have their own selfish motives. It's money or it's ego in many cases, the latter seeming to be common as these are often guys who want to be big shots and are not. Aldrich Ames compromised dozens of American intelligence operations and directly caused American spies to be killed, and he did it so he could drive a Jaguar and buy clothes for his disgusting wife. He pointed at individuals who were taking great risks and had them killed. So in my opinion, guys like him had selfish motives, directly caused murders of American spies, and potentially caused damage to every American.

Yeah, I read the Ames link you provided and he's definitely a scum. If I manage to vote in later rounds, I'll give him serious consideration. The thing about spies though is that to our enemies they are heroes, even if their motivations are selfish. In a very long term view of human history it becomes very difficult to favor one nation over another. We might think the Romans had a better society than the Huns, but do we really know the contributions of the gene pool of the Huns to greater humanity isn't superior to the contributions coming out of the Roman gene pool?

Serial killers, especially those who carry out depraved acts with their victims, are universally despised. If there were a member of the Taliban who was covertly killing other Taliban, making soap from their remains and selling that soap to the North Koreans, I don't think too many of us would consider that person a hero, even if it does help our national goals. Serial killers are generally viewed as more evil because their acts of depravity are against humanity.

Top mobsters provide for a rich network of fellow thieves. They are leaders of their industry and often times leaders in the larger community.

John_Wayne
09-04-2009, 12:37 PM
There's NO WAY this poll has any credibility without the name of BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA! Come on! Get with the program!

ChiefJustice
09-04-2009, 12:49 PM
There's NO WAY this poll has any credibility without the name of BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA! Come on! Get with the program!


It's always nice to hear a voice from the intelligentsia of America with insights like this.

kysirsoze
09-04-2009, 01:37 PM
Yeah, I read the Ames link you provided and he's definitely a scum. If I manage to vote in later rounds, I'll give him serious consideration. The thing about spies though is that to our enemies they are heroes, even if their motivations are selfish. In a very long term view of human history it becomes very difficult to favor one nation over another. We might think the Romans had a better society than the Huns, but do we really know the contributions of the gene pool of the Huns to greater humanity isn't superior to the contributions coming out of the Roman gene pool?

Serial killers, especially those who carry out depraved acts with their victims, are universally despised. If there were a member of the Taliban who was covertly killing other Taliban, making soap from their remains and selling that soap to the North Koreans, I don't think too many of us would consider that person a hero, even if it does help our national goals. Serial killers are generally viewed as more evil because their acts of depravity are against humanity.

Top mobsters provide for a rich network of fellow thieves. They are leaders of their industry and often times leaders in the larger community.

True, but it's American villains. Those who act against America's interest are just as bad as those who act against 'humanity's,' for the purposes of this poll. Or maybe I misunderstood.

Dicky McElephant
09-04-2009, 01:51 PM
There's NO WAY this poll has any credibility without the name of BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA! Come on! Get with the program!

They have to be Americans.










TO THE DC!!!!!!! :evil:

Hydrae
09-04-2009, 01:57 PM
No way BTK should beat out the Rosenburgs! Hell I had never even heard of BTK until reading about him on this site a year or so before he was caught. He is much more of a local "celebrity" from what I have seen.

Inspector
09-04-2009, 01:58 PM
They have to be Americans.










TO THE DC!!!!!!! :evil:

ROFL

ClevelandBronco
09-04-2009, 02:10 PM
Gee, which match should I vote for?

cdcox
09-04-2009, 02:34 PM
No way BTK should beat out the Rosenburgs! Hell I had never even heard of BTK until reading about him on this site a year or so before he was caught. He is much more of a local "celebrity" from what I have seen.

Klaus Fuchs actually played a much bigger role in giving out American bomb secrets than the Rosenburgs did. They aren't even the biggest villains of their own crime.

BTK is nationally known while working in Wichita. Think how well known he would been had he been operating in a major media market.

Amnorix
09-04-2009, 03:19 PM
That's an interesting point, and why I have a little trouble voting for John Wilkes Booth. The guy killed one of America's greatest figures, and he did it for a cause that was attempting to rip the U.S. apart. That's pretty bad. But at the same time, there was a logic and a reason behind what he did.

The serial killers are certainly great villains on their face, and their acts are horrific. But their greater impact is relatively small, unless perhaps one assumes a greater paranoia in society as a result of their collective presence.

For these reasons, I tend to gravitate toward the gangsters and the spies. The gangsters are obviously working for personal gain, and have a reasonably wide impact. In some cases, the impact is very large. Plus, they have an intimidating power beyond that of serial killers or traitors that damages society.

The spies, though, are my top contenders. Most of them, it seems to me, aren't acting out of ideology, but rather have their own selfish motives. It's money or it's ego in many cases, the latter seeming to be common as these are often guys who want to be big shots and are not. Aldrich Ames compromised dozens of American intelligence operations and directly caused American spies to be killed, and he did it so he could drive a Jaguar and buy clothes for his disgusting wife. He pointed at individuals who were taking great risks and had them killed. So in my opinion, guys like him had selfish motives, directly caused murders of


Yes, which is why Gambino should be crushing a guy like Gacy. Gacy affected the lives of a few hundred at most, other than a bit of paranoia. A guy like Gambino affected the lives of tens of thousansd, and that's not even counting indirect things like how the cost of all construction in New York City was significantly incrementally higher due to him.

The polls is for villains, not MONSTERS. If you want to poll on who was more inhuman, then guys like Gacy and Dahmer top the list.

But to me a villain has a wider impact. Think of it this way -- who is the bigger villain, Magneto or Sabretooth. Magneto. He affects more people. He operates on a wider scope.