PDA

View Full Version : Chiefs Practice Squad Announced, Richardson Waived.


Pages : 1 [2] 3

Reaper16
09-06-2009, 09:26 PM
None us of do. Is Pioli perfect? No. Hes going to make mistakes. Every GM does.

Point is, its waaay too early to bash Pioli IMO.
When Pioli does something really smart beyond the Gonzo trade, let me know.

splatbass
09-06-2009, 09:28 PM
How do any of us know that Haley isnt the next Belickeck?

How do any of us know that Jackson isnt the next Wilfork?

How do we know that Cassel isnt the next Brady?

None us of do. Is Pioli perfect? No. Hes going to make mistakes. Every GM does.

Point is, its waaay too early to bash Pioli IMO.

Well said. :thumb:

Mecca
09-06-2009, 09:28 PM
I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter who the GM/Coach are, or what moves they make, the usual suspects will not like anything that this team does.

We had the worst DL in the NFL last year, possibly in NFL history, and a pretty bad OL too. It just isn't possible to fix both in one offseason. They decided that they would fix the DL first. I don't know the reasoning (and none of you do either). But I'm really sure if they had fixed the OL first these same guys would be crying because we didn't fix the DL.

I'm going to give Pioli/Haley a chance. That is the only fair and rational thing to do. There is no one anywhere that could take the team from last year and turn them into anything successful in one year. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and give them until next season to get things turned around (and by turned around I don't mean contending for anything, I just mean clearly on the road to getting better).

When he makes a move for a QB and then gives him a franchise QB type of deal saying this is "my guy" he should have gone to the OL before the DL.

That's common sense in my view.

the Talking Can
09-06-2009, 09:28 PM
When Pioli does something good beyond the Gonzo trade, let me know.

i think this sums the thread up perfectly

Deberg_1990
09-06-2009, 09:28 PM
If the Internet had been around in 1989 here are a few CP thread topics:

"Derrick Thomas over broderick Thomas?? **ck You Carl Peterson!!"

"Marty Schotteheimer hired as KC Chiefs coach? **ck you Carl Peterson!!

JD10367
09-06-2009, 09:28 PM
Tom Brady's not walking through that door, dirk. Vince Wilfork's not walking through that door and Bill Belichick isn't walking through that door. And if you expect them to walk through the door, you're going to be damned disappointed.

Future rep for the Rick "Fellowship Of The Miserable" Pitino quote... ah, good times when he was the Celtics coach... One thing's for sure, we've had some colorful team leaders around New England... LMAO

keg in kc
09-06-2009, 09:28 PM
I'm with that, I don't see why not taking a shot on these no risk high reward guysYou see 'no risk high reward' guys. I see 'practice squad fodder that has maybe a 1% chance of making it in the league". Which we already have in spades on the roster. So I'm sorry if I'm not gong to get up in arms over the Chiefs not replacing one maybe but probably not with another maybe but probably not off the waiver wire.

Personally I think it's the name recognition thing. People are upset because Pioli's brought it what they see as 'his guys' instead of bringing in their guys. It's the same thing that happens at the end of every April. Work up a list, and if we don't bring in the names on that list, in order, then katie bar the door.

Mecca
09-06-2009, 09:29 PM
If the Internet had been around in 1989 here are a few CP thread topics:

"Derrick Thomas over broderick Thomas?? **ck You Carl Peterson!!"

"Marty Schotteheimer hired as KC Chiefs coach? **ck you Carl Peterson!!

It would have been "Derrick Thomas or Deion Sanders" which in the end both parties would have been right as both ended up being HOF players.

the Talking Can
09-06-2009, 09:30 PM
You see 'no risk high reward' guys. I see 'practice squad fodder that has maybe a 1% chance of making it in the league". Which we already have in spades on the roster. So I'm sorry if I'm not gong to get up in arms over the Chiefs not replacing one maybe but probably not with another maybe but probably not off the waiver wire.

Personally I think it's the name recognition thing. People are upset because Pioli's brought it what they see as 'his guys' instead of bringing in their guys. It's the same thing that happens at the end of every April. Work up a list, and if we don't bring in the names on that list, in order, then katie bar the door.

it's jamon meredith redux

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-06-2009, 09:30 PM
How do any of us know that Haley isnt the next Belickeck?

How do any of us know that Jackson isnt the next Wilfork?

How do we know that Cassel isnt the next Brady?

None us of do. Is Pioli perfect? No. Hes going to make mistakes. Every GM does.

Point is, its waaay too early to bash Pioli IMO.

Well Jackson's not the next Wilfork. They play different positions,
Tom Brady is one of the five best QBs ever, and you can't expect to hit on draft picks like that more than once every 20-30 years.

Even if Pioli is the GOAT, you're asking him to hit on all those acquisitions so perfectly is like expecting Tiger Woods to shoot a 53 at Whistling Straits.

Mecca
09-06-2009, 09:31 PM
You see 'no risk high reward' guys. I see 'practice squad fodder that has maybe a 1% chance of making it in the league". Which we already have in spades on the roster. So I'm sorry if I'm not gong to get up in arms over the Chiefs not replacing one maybe but probably not with another maybe but probably not off the waiver wire.

Personally I think it's the name recognition thing. People are upset because Pioli's brought it what they see as 'his guys' instead of bringing in their guys. It's the same thing that happens at the end of every April. Work up a list, and if we don't bring in the names on that list, in order, then katie bar the door.

Disagree with that take, there are numerous people on this very forum that know far more about college ball and it's players to just be getting worked up about names.

OnTheWarpath58
09-06-2009, 09:32 PM
When Pioli does something good beyond the Gonzo trade, let me know.

That's kinda how I feel.

The pro-Pioli folks gushed over how he was responsible for 3 SB wins, has won numerous Executive of the Year awards, and how he was going to come here and cure cancer, all while leading the organization out of the Dark Ages and into contending for a division title Year One.

Now, things aren't going as planned, so the "well, things were SO bad, no one could be expected to fix things this quick."

I'd love to hear someone tell me what he's done that has excited them as a fan, given them hope that better days are ahead - other than, "Well, it's better than Carl", or "be patient, he sat on his hands for 6 months with the worst OL in football, let's see if these last minute moves he made, swapping scrubs for scrubs pan out."

I want the guy to be successful too, but I'm not going to ignore the huge red flags that are surrounding every move we've made, sans the Gonzo deal.

Reaper16
09-06-2009, 09:33 PM
i think this sums the thread up perfectly
It does, but not for any reason that you are capable of understanding.

Pioli has not been some super-GM so far. He's been thoroughly average. His moves have been inefficient, slow, and occasionally nonsensical. He's done an just-ok job at best, which does not leave him in a position where he shouldn't be bashed for the things that one may disagree with.

dirk digler
09-06-2009, 09:35 PM
Even if they are, Cassel still dies behind this line. You couldn't make a Madden QB that could survive behind this line with this schedule.

Here's the problem though: when guys are playing for their livelihoods, and not just the result on Sundays, and they are getting their asses whipped by the third teamers of the St. Louis Rams, it doesn't bode well for their ability.

I would probably guess the ones that really really sucked playing for their livelihoods aren't here anymore.

My whole point though is I am willing to give these guys 2-3 years to build the team they want and if it doesn't work out then I will bash them endlessly. That doesn't mean I don't disagree with some of their moves but then again I don't know what is going through their brains when making those moves. With Carl it became easy to see what he was trying to do.

Deberg_1990
09-06-2009, 09:35 PM
I'd love to hear someone tell me what he's done that has excited them as a fan, given them hope that better days are ahead

He cut Sackintosh and Pollard. Carl would have never done that. :)

OnTheWarpath58
09-06-2009, 09:36 PM
It does, but not for any reason that you are capable of understanding.

Pioli has not been some super-GM so far. He's been thoroughly average. His moves have been inefficient, slow, and occasionally nonsensical. He's done an just-ok job at best, which does not leave him in a position where he shouldn't be bashed for the things that one may disagree with.

.

dirk digler
09-06-2009, 09:36 PM
When Pioli does something really smart beyond the Gonzo trade, let me know.

I actually disagreed with that considering Cassell has no one to throw to now

:deevee:

Mecca
09-06-2009, 09:37 PM
I actually disagreed with that considering Cassell has no one to throw to now

:deevee:

So in your case that means he has made no good moves?

dirk digler
09-06-2009, 09:37 PM
When he makes a move for a QB and then gives him a franchise QB type of deal saying this is "my guy" he should have gone to the OL before the DL.

That's common sense in my view.

I agree with that. And they shouldn't have traded their very best player and receiver so their franchise QB has no one to throw to now

Deberg_1990
09-06-2009, 09:39 PM
He cut Sackintosh and Pollard. Carl would have never done that. :)

Oh, and the first thing he did when he came to KC was took a look around and saw Brodie Croyle and Tyler Thigpen and went: WTF?? Then immediatly went out and made a deal for a real QB.

keg in kc
09-06-2009, 09:39 PM
Disagree with that take, there are numerous people on this very forum that know far more about college ball and it's players to just be getting worked up about names.Name recognition was the wrong way to phrase it on my part. But you're actually making my point for me there. People become vested in certain players, for whatever reason, and if we don't bring in those players, then it's all aboard the failboat!

As for me, well, it's the week before the season and I see people trying to convince each other why the chiefs should have taken scrub b over scrub a to fill out the bottom 5 or 6 spots on the 53 because, by golly, he's this font of untapped potential and boy oh boy we'll be regretting that down the road.

And I find much humor in that. Definitely not something to get upset over. Hell, how am I going to maintain any level of disgust with the team while they're losing all the games they're going to lose in 2009 if I blow the whole wad now.

The Bad Guy
09-06-2009, 09:40 PM
It does, but not for any reason that you are capable of understanding.

Pioli has not been some super-GM so far. He's been thoroughly average. His moves have been inefficient, slow, and occasionally nonsensical. He's done an just-ok job at best, which does not leave him in a position where he shouldn't be bashed for the things that one may disagree with.

I'm just amazed at this line of thought.

The season hasn't played one snap yet, but we are determining that Pioli has been insanely average at his job thus far.

We can evaluate Pioli when actual games have been played and whether or not this team is improving as the season wears on.

I'm a results person. Results happen on the field.

the Talking Can
09-06-2009, 09:40 PM
It does, but not for any reason that you are capable of understanding.

Pioli has not been some super-GM so far. He's been thoroughly average. His moves have been inefficient, slow, and occasionally nonsensical. He's done an just-ok job at best, which does not leave him in a position where he shouldn't be bashed for the things that one may disagree with.

actually, the point of your post was that he's done nothing worthy of praise beyond a trade....meaning all people do is complain...and that's exactly what has happened...

on a day where we acquired a probable starter and definite upgrade at RT we have a gigantic thread meltdown about how pioli isn't doing anything, is a liar, an idiot and on and on...

maybe you could show me all these huge threads with people praising pioli, cause I don't see them....

every move he's made has been accompanied by a long meltdown thread and you're actually arguing that there isn't enough complaining....talk about fucking clueless...

never minds the fact that we haven't played a single game and everyone has already decided the whole thing is a failure....wish i could see the future like you do...amazing

Mecca
09-06-2009, 09:40 PM
Oh, the first thing he did when he came to KC was took a look around and saw Brodie Croyle and Tyler Thigpen and went: WTF?? Then immediatly went out and made a deal for a real QB.

Going to Cassel is going to spike this thead for another 300 posts.

tk13
09-06-2009, 09:41 PM
I think we are pretty much going exactly according to plan. Not necessarily in terms of each particular player per se, you can argue over the players, and many people will disagree with the actual moves made. But as a big picture, Pioli came in here and gutted the coaching staff, hired an aggressive take-no-prisoners coach, acquired what he believes is a franchise QB, completely remodeled the defense, and traded away the primadonna star to show everybody else who the boss is.

There still needs to be a ton of talent acquired, but I think he's done exactly what he wants to do. Set up a foundation where now we're going to bring guys into "our" system, they'll listen to the coach, work hard and play hard.

The Bad Guy
09-06-2009, 09:41 PM
I love Hamas takes, but it's ironic that the Pioli shitstorm blew in right as he ended his posting hiatus.

Deberg_1990
09-06-2009, 09:41 PM
Going to Cassel is going to spike this thead for another 300 posts.

We can agree that Cassel is better than Thigpen or Croyle correct?

keg in kc
09-06-2009, 09:42 PM
I'm just amazed at this line of thought.

The season hasn't played one snap yet, but we are determining that Pioli has been insanely average at his job thus far.

We can evaluate Pioli when actual games have been played and whether or not this team is improving as the season wears on.

I'm a results person. Results happen on the field.Pretty much.

It's kind of like grading the draft in April.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-06-2009, 09:43 PM
I'm just amazed at this line of thought.

The season hasn't played one snap yet, but we are determining that Pioli has been insanely average at his job thus far.

We can evaluate Pioli when actual games have been played and whether or not this team is improving as the season wears on.

I'm a results person. Results happen on the field.

The results of this year's biggest decisions won't fully manifest themselves for 2-3 years down the road. Unfortunately, the decisions made on some of the less important positions can affect those bigger decisions, rendering them moot. If Albert goes down,as they say in ebonics, Cassel be fucked.

Raised On Riots
09-06-2009, 09:43 PM
Oh, and the first thing he did when he came to KC was took a look around and saw Brodie Croyle and Tyler Thigpen and went: WTF?? Then immediatly went out and made a deal for a real QB.


And yet Thigshit still resides on this roster. That 5th looks like the Lost City of Gold now, doesn't it?

keg in kc
09-06-2009, 09:44 PM
actually, the point of your post was that he's done nothing worthy of praise beyond a trade....meaning all people do is complain...and that's exactly what has happened...

on a day where we acquired a probable starter and definite upgrade at RT we have a gigantic thread meltdown about how pioli isn't doing anything, is a liar, an idiot and on and on...

maybe you could show me all these huge threads with people praising pioli, cause I don't see them....

every move he's made has been accompanied by a long meltdown thread and you're actually arguing that there isn't enough complaining....talk about ****ing clueless...

never minds the fact that we haven't played a single game and everyone has already decided the whole thing is a failure....wish i could see the future like you do...amazingThat's a good point, too. Who on earth is praising pioli?

Maybe it's like it was with Carl, where if you're not shredding him, then you're supporting him.

The Bad Guy
09-06-2009, 09:44 PM
The results of this year's biggest decisions won't fully manifest themselves for 2-3 years down the road. Unfortunately, the decisions made on some of the less important positions can affect those bigger decisions, rendering them moot. If Albert goes down,as they say in ebonics, Cassel be ****ed.

You are right, which is why it's a waste of my time to sit here and either criticize or defend Pioli based on 7 months on the job when this team has been mismanaged for the last 11 seasons.

dirk digler
09-06-2009, 09:45 PM
That's kinda how I feel.

The pro-Pioli folks gushed over how he was responsible for 3 SB wins, has won numerous Executive of the Year awards, and how he was going to come here and cure cancer, all while leading the organization out of the Dark Ages and into contending for a division title Year One.

Now, things aren't going as planned, so the "well, things were SO bad, no one could be expected to fix things this quick."

I'd love to hear someone tell me what he's done that has excited them as a fan, given them hope that better days are ahead - other than, "Well, it's better than Carl", or "be patient, he sat on his hands for 6 months with the worst OL in football, let's see if these last minute moves he made, swapping scrubs for scrubs pan out."

I want the guy to be successful too, but I'm not going to ignore the huge red flags that are surrounding every move we've made, sans the Gonzo deal.

I am guessing here but I think everybody was so used to Carl going out and doing press conferences and interviews to explain things but that isn't how these guys work so maybe it is a lack of communication.

Maybe if they came out and said this is why we did this or that then maybe people would have a better understanding of what their mindset is instead of just guessing.

Just my .02 cents

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-06-2009, 09:45 PM
You are right, which is why it's a waste of my time to sit here and either criticize or defend Pioli based on 7 months on the job when this team has been mismanaged for the last 11 seasons.

Well, we did just cut his two backups and replaced them with guys who've never played that position...

OnTheWarpath58
09-06-2009, 09:46 PM
I'm just amazed at this line of thought.

The season hasn't played one snap yet, but we are determining that Pioli has been insanely average at his job thus far.

We can evaluate Pioli when actual games have been played and whether or not this team is improving as the season wears on.

I'm a results person. Results happen on the field.

Pretty much.

It's kind of like grading the draft in April.

Well, fuck it then.

Kyle might as well quit wasting his money.

God forbid we talk about football around here.

And God forbid some people question the moves that have been made, that look eerily similar to the moves the last regime made.

So everyone, just sit on your hands until 2012, and then we can discuss the moves that were made in 2009.

dirk digler
09-06-2009, 09:46 PM
So in your case that means he has made no good moves?

I actually like our first round pick. I didn't really like it at first but I think he is going to be a really good player

the Talking Can
09-06-2009, 09:47 PM
That's a good point, too. Who on earth is praising pioli?

Maybe it's like it was with Carl, where if you're not shredding him, then you're supporting him.

no one is

you can't find threads with hundreds of posts about how awesome pioli is

because they don't exist


it is a fantasy, one necessary for martyrs....

keg in kc
09-06-2009, 09:47 PM
Well, **** it then.

Kyle might as well quit wasting his money.

God forbid we talk about football around here.

And God forbid some people question the moves that have been made, that look eerily similar to the moves the last regime made.

So everyone, just sit on your hands until 2012, and then we can discuss the moves that were made in 2009.You don't discuss, you preach. I'm sorry if you can't convert all of us to your line of thinking.

wild1
09-06-2009, 09:48 PM
I think we are pretty much going exactly according to plan. Not necessarily in terms of each particular player per se, you can argue over the players, and many people will disagree with the actual moves made. But as a big picture, Pioli came in here and gutted the coaching staff, hired an aggressive take-no-prisoners coach, acquired what he believes is a franchise QB, completely remodeled the defense, and traded away the primadonna star to show everybody else who the boss is.

There still needs to be a ton of talent acquired, but I think he's done exactly what he wants to do. Set up a foundation where now we're going to bring guys into "our" system, they'll listen to the coach, work hard and play hard.

Nice post.

Easy 6
09-06-2009, 09:48 PM
I think we are pretty much going exactly according to plan. Not necessarily in terms of each particular player per se, you can argue over the players, and many people will disagree with the actual moves made. But as a big picture, Pioli came in here and gutted the coaching staff, hired an aggressive take-no-prisoners coach, acquired what he believes is a franchise QB, completely remodeled the defense, and traded away the primadonna star to show everybody else who the boss is.

There still needs to be a ton of talent acquired, but I think he's done exactly what he wants to do. Set up a foundation where now we're going to bring guys into "our" system, they'll listen to the coach, work hard and play hard.

Thats on point.

But its far more fashionable to carp on every move that doesnt meet with the approval of the Planets many, eminently qualified, NFL GM caliber football minds.

doomy3
09-06-2009, 09:49 PM
You don't discuss, you preach. I'm sorry if you can't convert all of us to your line of thinking.

Great post.

dirk digler
09-06-2009, 09:49 PM
I think we are pretty much going exactly according to plan. Not necessarily in terms of each particular player per se, you can argue over the players, and many people will disagree with the actual moves made. But as a big picture, Pioli came in here and gutted the coaching staff, hired an aggressive take-no-prisoners coach, acquired what he believes is a franchise QB, completely remodeled the defense, and traded away the primadonna star to show everybody else who the boss is.

There still needs to be a ton of talent acquired, but I think he's done exactly what he wants to do. Set up a foundation where now we're going to bring guys into "our" system, they'll listen to the coach, work hard and play hard.

Yep

the Talking Can
09-06-2009, 09:49 PM
I think we are pretty much going exactly according to plan. Not necessarily in terms of each particular player per se, you can argue over the players, and many people will disagree with the actual moves made. But as a big picture, Pioli came in here and gutted the coaching staff, hired an aggressive take-no-prisoners coach, acquired what he believes is a franchise QB, completely remodeled the defense, and traded away the primadonna star to show everybody else who the boss is.

There still needs to be a ton of talent acquired, but I think he's done exactly what he wants to do. Set up a foundation where now we're going to bring guys into "our" system, they'll listen to the coach, work hard and play hard.

if you were a chick i'd hit on you

thank you for stating the obvious

Mecca
09-06-2009, 09:50 PM
Thats on point.

But its far more fashionable to carp on every move that doesnt meet with the approval of the Planets many, eminently qualified, NFL GM caliber football minds.

Then give a view that is something better than "Pioli knows what he's doing" or "it's to early to tell"

This is a football discussion board, that's the entire premise of the forum.

KC kid
09-06-2009, 09:50 PM
Just curious why they picked the players they did for practice squad

The Bad Guy
09-06-2009, 09:50 PM
Well, **** it then.

Kyle might as well quit wasting his money.

God forbid we talk about football around here.

And God forbid some people question the moves that have been made, that look eerily similar to the moves the last regime made.

So everyone, just sit on your hands until 2012, and then we can discuss the moves that were made in 2009.

Some people want to act like Pioli cut their head off with some of his personnel moves. What's the point in crying about Jamon Meredith now? 31 other teams had the chance to grab him. No one did. There's obviously something about him that GM's know that CP posters don't.

It's a mute point to say he's been average or below average at his job. No one knows that yet. Do I think he's set the world on fire? No, I don't. But before I go crying to the heavens, I'll let some actual downs in the season be played first.

Reaper16
09-06-2009, 09:51 PM
You don't discuss, you preach. I'm sorry if you can't convert all of us to your line of thinking.
OTWP can't very well discuss anything if the entirety of those who oppose his view (aside from tk13) are advocating shutting down discussion.

LaChapelle
09-06-2009, 09:52 PM
It must be the contrary Kansans. The Chiefs are in the show me state....we ain't seen a game yet.

dirk digler
09-06-2009, 09:54 PM
Then give a view that is something better than "Pioli knows what he's doing" or "it's to early to tell"

This is a football discussion board, that's the entire premise of the forum.

In all honestly Mecca it is too early to tell. We haven't played one down of real football yet.

Everybody just needs to chill the fuck out and let's see what happens.

splatbass
09-06-2009, 09:55 PM
Now, things aren't going as planned,

Other than you and the others agreeing with you, who says things aren't gong as planned? I think none of us know the plan that Pioli has, so to say things aren't going as planned is pretty ridiculous.

It is too early to have any sort of educated idea about how this is going to turn out. You don't know, I don't know, none of us knows. They haven't even played one real game yet for gods sake.

Short Leash Hootie
09-06-2009, 09:55 PM
And a franchise left tackle.

that no one wanted at #5...coulda taken him at 5 and kept Jared Allen...

splatbass
09-06-2009, 09:57 PM
Pioli has not been some super-GM so far. He's been thoroughly average. His moves have been inefficient, slow, and occasionally nonsensical.

It may seem nonsensical to you, but since none of us know what Pioli has planned there is no way to know if it is nonsensical or not. It may make perfect sense in the context of Pioli's plan.

Truthfully, it is the height of arrogance to think you know what is going on when you don't.

OnTheWarpath58
09-06-2009, 09:57 PM
You don't discuss, you preach. I'm sorry if you can't convert all of us to your line of thinking.

Hard to have a discussion with people who's only contribution is "well, Pioli knows more than I do, so I'll blindly follow him, and never question anything he does."

I've praised him when I thought he made good moves, and criticized him when I felt he's made poor decisions.

I'm going to continue to call it as I see it, instead of blindly accepting everything he does - and in the meantime hope like hell that I'M the one who's wrong - because if HE'S wrong....you know the rest.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-06-2009, 09:58 PM
Everyone knows that the Chiefs are going to be an awful team this year. However, if there are players out there who offer more long term upside for the franchise when we can compete, or who can protect Cassel so that we don't have to find another QB in the next two years and thus further delay the rebuild, then it's important that those decisions are made correctly.

People seem to think that all these moves exist independently of one another. Cassel is more important than Richardson, Meredith, Ndukwe, etc, but if the Chiefs don't try and procure any line depth that is out there and our starting LT goes down, how does Cassel survive? Haven't we then turned a 400k mistake into a 60 million dollar mistake.

Shitty two cent rubber o-rings turned a two billion dollar space craft into a starburst shell over Cape Canaveral. You don't have to buy two million dollar o-rings, but not having any kind of protection in place for the integrity of the team's most important piece is just foolhardy.

the Talking Can
09-06-2009, 10:00 PM
OTWP can't very well discuss anything if the entirety of those who oppose his view (aside from tk13) are advocating shutting down discussion.

awesome


the martyrs out in full force


how many posts are in this thread that is supposedly being shut down?

how many threads are full of the exact same posts..most all of them

show me the threads that are only people praising pioli..they must be easy to find....

OnTheWarpath58
09-06-2009, 10:02 PM
I'm still waiting for someone, anyone to tell me what Scott Pioli has done this offseason other than trading for a supposed franchise QB, and getting a 2nd round pick for a malcontent, me-first primadonna that inspires any confidence in the future of this franchise.

dirk digler
09-06-2009, 10:04 PM
Shitty two cent rubbers turned my little bitty pecker into starburst shell over Cape Canaveral after anal sex. You don't have to buy two million dollar rubbers, but not having any kind of protection in place for my little bitty pecker is just foolhardy.

what?

dirk digler
09-06-2009, 10:04 PM
I'm still waiting for someone, anyone to tell me what Scott Pioli has done this offseason other than trading for a supposed franchise QB, and getting a 2nd round pick for a malcontent, me-first primadonna that inspires any confidence in the future of this franchise.

That is easy. Tyson Jackson

bdeg
09-06-2009, 10:07 PM
I'm still waiting for someone, anyone to tell me what Scott Pioli has done this offseason other than trading for a supposed franchise QB, and getting a 2nd round pick for a malcontent, me-first primadonna that inspires any confidence in the future of this franchise.

Haley seems to be a good hire. I still like the draft.

OnTheWarpath58
09-06-2009, 10:07 PM
That is easy. Tyson Jackson

Really?

You really want to go there?

Taking a guy who plays a complementary position #3 overall is your idea of inspiring?

the Talking Can
09-06-2009, 10:07 PM
I'm still waiting for someone, anyone to tell me what Scott Pioli has done this offseason other than trading for a supposed franchise QB, and getting a 2nd round pick for a malcontent, me-first primadonna that inspires any confidence in the future of this franchise.



um, the planet is full of pro pioli threads and posts according to you.....it should be easy to answer your own questions....


that's why you're a martyr right....all those hundreds of pioli loving posts all over the board...

keg in kc
09-06-2009, 10:07 PM
Hard to have a discussion with people who's only contribution is "well, Pioli knows more than I do, so I'll blindly follow him, and never question anything he does."You might be onto something if there was anybody actually blindly following him and never questioning anything he does.

I'll go with wait and see myself. As in "wait and see if they make any more moves". My guess is the guys at the bottom of the roster are probably going to be cycled around as much as they can be for as long as they can be, now and during the season.

And as far as "discussing" goes, well, we understand that you're unhappy, and that any folks who isn't as unhappy as you are are just blind, dumb sheep.

Carry on.

LaChapelle
09-06-2009, 10:07 PM
Now you're rocket scientist....zing

the Talking Can
09-06-2009, 10:07 PM
Really?

You really want to go there?

Taking a guy who plays a complementary position #3 overall is your idea of inspiring?

and he's not...because you say so?

dirk digler
09-06-2009, 10:08 PM
Really?

You really want to go there?

Taking a guy who plays a complementary position #3 overall is your idea of inspiring?

I think he is going to be a really really good player.

OnTheWarpath58
09-06-2009, 10:08 PM
and he's not...because you say so?

Feel free to answer the question yourself.

But then again, I can see why you'd dodge it.

splatbass
09-06-2009, 10:09 PM
I'm still waiting for someone, anyone to tell me what Scott Pioli has done this offseason other than trading for a supposed franchise QB, and getting a 2nd round pick for a malcontent, me-first primadonna that inspires any confidence in the future of this franchise.

He hired a coach that will stop coddling players and teach them to be tough. He cut a bunch of whiners and malcontents. He improved what was the worst DL in the history of the NFL, the LBs and the DBs, and got rid of Pollard. He drafted a kicker that looks like he might be pretty good - something CP could never do.

It is too early to say for sure whether those are good moves, but at this point they seem to be. He has made some moves that we all question, but it is too early to say if he was right on them too.

bdeg
09-06-2009, 10:10 PM
When assessing the draft let's not forget that it's not going to be a 1 year fix.

Let's assume they realized the OL was bad. If they believed Magee and Washington were likely future starters whereas the OL that were available were more of a gamble, I like the picks.

Coach
09-06-2009, 10:11 PM
Really?

You really want to go there?

Taking a guy who plays a complementary position #3 overall is your idea of inspiring?

Well, at least he didn't take a LT at #3, since LT was not a need, and it wouldn't make any fiancial sense to get a LT at #3 and convert him to a RT, while paying him LT money that he and his agent will be seeking.

Secondly, the Chiefs needed a D-lineman one way or another since if you recall last year that the Chiefs set a new NFL record of least sacks in a single season.

the Talking Can
09-06-2009, 10:11 PM
Feel free to answer the question yourself.

But then again, I can see why you'd dodge it.

so i was right.....it's an irrefutable fact, one worthy of ridicule if disagreed with, just because you say so....



this is all it takes to be martyr?

doomy3
09-06-2009, 10:13 PM
I'm still waiting for someone, anyone to tell me what Scott Pioli has done this offseason other than trading for a supposed franchise QB, and getting a 2nd round pick for a malcontent, me-first primadonna that inspires any confidence in the future of this franchise.

I like the Head Coach he brought in a lot better than the Head Coach we had before.

Tyson Jackson, Alex Magee, and Donald Washington all had very solid preseasons and look like they could be key players on our defense for years to come.

Mays looks like he could be a really nice steal for us that can man the MLB position and make some plays.

He cut a starting free safety in Pollard because he didn't see him being a part of the long term future of this team instead of dragging his feet. Same with McIntosh.

Vrabel looks to still have some left in the tank, and by all accounts was a throw in in a trade.

Hali looks MUCH better in this preseason and scheme than he has ever looked. For as much talk of first round pick Dorsey being wasted, maybe we will finally get a first round value out of Hali.

Plus, Dorsey has also looked pretty good this preseason.

Gailey being fired IMO was another good move if they knew that he wasn't going to be a long-term solution for us instead of dragging his feet. That shows good leadership IMO.

OnTheWarpath58
09-06-2009, 10:13 PM
He hired a coach that will stop coddling players and teach them to be tough. He cut a bunch of whiners and malcontents. He improved what was the worst DL in the history of the NFL, the LBs and the DBs, and got rid of Pollard. He drafted a kicker that looks like he might be pretty good - something CP could never do.

It is too early to say for sure whether those are good moves, but at this point they seem to be. He has made some moves that we all question, but it is too early to say if he was right on them too.

Improved the defense?

The same defense that was gouged by Matt Schaub, obliterated in one quarter of work by Tarvaris fucking Jackson to the tune of over 200 yards, and embarrassed by the cellar dwellers of the NFC West?

Easy 6
09-06-2009, 10:15 PM
Then give a view that is something better than "Pioli knows what he's doing" or "it's to early to tell"

This is a football discussion board, that's the entire premise of the forum.

I've made plenty of cogent points recently Mecca.

Yes, this place is all about tough questions, i certainly dont have a prob with that, as it should be...yet IMO theres too much crying & nitpicking right now, some people are acting like we're still floundering along in the Herm era...like a major attitude shift hasnt already occured at 1 Arrowhead.

dirk digler
09-06-2009, 10:15 PM
Improved the defense?

The same defense that was gouged by Matt Schaub, obliterated in one quarter of work by Tarvaris fucking Jackson to the tune of over 200 yards, and embarrassed by the cellar dwellers of the NFC West?

Would you be willing to bet they rank higher this year than last year?

The Bad Guy
09-06-2009, 10:15 PM
Improved the defense?

The same defense that was gouged by Matt Schaub, obliterated in one quarter of work by Tarvaris ****ing Jackson to the tune of over 200 yards, and embarrassed by the cellar dwellers of the NFC West?

Yes, because we all know that preseason is an excellent indicator to guage defenses.

Raised On Riots
09-06-2009, 10:16 PM
so i was right.....it's an irrefutable fact, one worthy of ridicule if disagreed with, just because you say so....



this is all it takes to be martyr?

The only one who sounds like a "Martyr"(read:victim)in this thread is YOU.

Carry on.

bdeg
09-06-2009, 10:16 PM
Improved the defense?

The same defense that was gouged by Matt Schaub, obliterated in one quarter of work by Tarvaris ****ing Jackson to the tune of over 200 yards, and embarrassed by the cellar dwellers of the NFC West?

The draft picks played well, let's wait until the regular season to judge the scheme.

the Talking Can
09-06-2009, 10:16 PM
I like the Head Coach he brought in a lot better than the Head Coach we had before.

Tyson Jackson, Alex Magee, and Donald Washington all had very solid preseasons and look like they could be key players on our defense for years to come.

Mays looks like he could be a really nice steal for us that can man the MLB position and make some plays.

He cut a starting free safety in Pollard because he didn't see him being a part of the long term future of this team instead of dragging his feet. Same with McIntosh.

Vrabel looks to still have some left in the tank, and by all accounts was a throw in in a trade.

Hali looks MUCH better in this preseason and scheme than he has ever looked. For as much talk of first round pick Dorsey being wasted, maybe we will finally get a first round value out of Hali.

Plus, Dorsey has also looked pretty good this preseason.

Gailey being fired IMO was another good move if they knew that he wasn't going to be a long-term solution for us instead of dragging his feet. That shows good leadership IMO.

plus succop
plus the gonzo trade
plus setting lj straight, regardless what he has left in the tank
plus making bowe a better player, by his own admission
plus getting the whole team in better shape

edit*

technically haley not pioli

Mecca
09-06-2009, 10:16 PM
Well that goes both ways I'm seeing people use the preseason to say the defense is much better and all of that.

To some others it's like um what are you looking at?

Raised On Riots
09-06-2009, 10:17 PM
I like the Head Coach he brought in a lot better than the Head Coach we had before.

Tyson Jackson, Alex Magee, and Donald Washington all had very solid preseasons and look like they could be key players on our defense for years to come.

Mays looks like he could be a really nice steal for us that can man the MLB position and make some plays.

He cut a starting free safety in Pollard because he didn't see him being a part of the long term future of this team instead of dragging his feet. Same with McIntosh.

Vrabel looks to still have some left in the tank, and by all accounts was a throw in in a trade.

Hali looks MUCH better in this preseason and scheme than he has ever looked. For as much talk of first round pick Dorsey being wasted, maybe we will finally get a first round value out of Hali.

Plus, Dorsey has also looked pretty good this preseason.

Gailey being fired IMO was another good move if they knew that he wasn't going to be a long-term solution for us instead of dragging his feet. That shows good leadership IMO.

With the exception of the bolded, I agree.

Mecca
09-06-2009, 10:18 PM
The word martyr really needs to stop being thrown around on football discussion it's fucking stupid.

People disagree on a forum big fucking deal but this martyr shit is retard to a huge degree.

OnTheWarpath58
09-06-2009, 10:18 PM
I like the Head Coach he brought in a lot better than the Head Coach we had before.

Tyson Jackson, Alex Magee, and Donald Washington all had very solid preseasons and look like they could be key players on our defense for years to come.

Mays looks like he could be a really nice steal for us that can man the MLB position and make some plays.

He cut a starting free safety in Pollard because he didn't see him being a part of the long term future of this team instead of dragging his feet. Same with McIntosh.

Vrabel looks to still have some left in the tank, and by all accounts was a throw in in a trade.

Hali looks MUCH better in this preseason and scheme than he has ever looked. For as much talk of first round pick Dorsey being wasted, maybe we will finally get a first round value out of Hali.

Plus, Dorsey has also looked pretty good this preseason.

Gailey being fired IMO was another good move if they knew that he wasn't going to be a long-term solution for us instead of dragging his feet. That shows good leadership IMO.

With the exception of the bolded line, that reads as if you're wearing your "I hope, therefore it's true" glasses. I hope YOU'RE right and I'M wrong. I sincerely do.

Rep for bringing something to the table that didn't include the typical bullshit whine that dodges the question.

OnTheWarpath58
09-06-2009, 10:19 PM
Would you be willing to bet they rank higher this year than last year?

Jesus Christ, Dirk.

Where the fuck else can they go but up?

doomy3
09-06-2009, 10:20 PM
With the exception of the bolded line, that reads as if you're wearing your "I hope, therefore it's true" glasses. I hope YOU'RE right and I'M wrong. I sincerely do.

Rep for bringing something to the table that didn't include the typical bullshit whine that dodges the question.

Yeah, but that's the point. It's too small of a sample size to make a judgement one way or the other on ANY of those things I mentioned. That's why it's just not worth getting worked up about right now.

Mays may not end up being worth a shit.

This preseason may have been a fluke and TJ, AM and Washington bomb once the games start.

Or they could be great. Who knows?

dirk digler
09-06-2009, 10:21 PM
Jesus Christ, Dirk.

Where the fuck else can they go but up?

LMAO

You said they haven't improved so I am taking you at your word.

OnTheWarpath58
09-06-2009, 10:21 PM
Yes, because we all know that preseason is an excellent indicator to guage defenses.

So all that stuff that Doomy and others posted about the defense being better, or specific players being better was just bullshit?

After all, how can you judge? It's just preseason.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-06-2009, 10:21 PM
Well, at least he didn't take a LT at #3, since LT was not a need, and it wouldn't make any fiancial sense to get a LT at #3 and convert him to a RT, while paying him LT money that he and his agent will be seeking.

Secondly, the Chiefs needed a D-lineman one way or another since if you recall last year that the Chiefs set a new NFL record of least sacks in a single season.

Not to nitpick, but DE's don't accumulate sacks in a 3-4 unless they are Bruce Smiff. If we wanted to address the pass rush first, we'd have gotten a rush backer. This was a move to shore up the run D.

OnTheWarpath58
09-06-2009, 10:21 PM
The word martyr really needs to stop being thrown around on football discussion it's fucking stupid.

People disagree on a forum big fucking deal but this martyr shit is retard to a huge degree.

That's all TTC has to fall back on.

First, it was true fans.

Now, it's this.

dirk digler
09-06-2009, 10:22 PM
The word martyr really needs to stop being thrown around on football discussion it's fucking stupid.

People disagree on a forum big fucking deal but this martyr shit is retard to a huge degree.

I am offended you use the word retard...retard :)

the Talking Can
09-06-2009, 10:22 PM
Yeah, but that's the point. It's too small of a sample size to make a judgement one way or the other on ANY of those things I mentioned. That's why it's just not worth getting worked up about right now.

Mays may not end up being worth a shit.

This preseason may have been a fluke and TJ, AM and Washington bomb once the games start.

Or they could be great. Who knows?

you'll hurt people if you start using logic now....

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-06-2009, 10:22 PM
I like the Head Coach he brought in a lot better than the Head Coach we had before.

Tyson Jackson, Alex Magee, and Donald Washington all had very solid preseasons and look like they could be key players on our defense for years to come.

Mays looks like he could be a really nice steal for us that can man the MLB position and make some plays.

He cut a starting free safety in Pollard because he didn't see him being a part of the long term future of this team instead of dragging his feet. Same with McIntosh.

Vrabel looks to still have some left in the tank, and by all accounts was a throw in in a trade.

Hali looks MUCH better in this preseason and scheme than he has ever looked. For as much talk of first round pick Dorsey being wasted, maybe we will finally get a first round value out of Hali.

Plus, Dorsey has also looked pretty good this preseason.

Gailey being fired IMO was another good move if they knew that he wasn't going to be a long-term solution for us instead of dragging his feet. That shows good leadership IMO.

I missed the first two PS games. What did Dorsey do that made you optimistic (honest question)?

The Bad Guy
09-06-2009, 10:23 PM
So all that stuff that Doomy and others posted about the defense being better, or specific players being better was just bullshit?

After all, how can you judge? It's just preseason.

I think anyone saying players look better, or players are going to be shit, simply based on preseason are a bunch of fucking morons.

Boris The Great
09-06-2009, 10:24 PM
Improved the defense?

The same defense that was gouged by Matt Schaub, obliterated in one quarter of work by Tarvaris ****ing Jackson to the tune of over 200 yards, and embarrassed by the cellar dwellers of the NFC West?

The same defense that held Minnesota to 7 points before halftime?

The same defense that held Seattle to 7 points before halftime?

The same defense that held St. Louis to 7 points before halftime?

But lets keep on talking about stuff like how many completions Matt Schaub had, its clearly more important than the method by which games are decided.

the Talking Can
09-06-2009, 10:24 PM
The word martyr really needs to stop being thrown around on football discussion it's ****ing stupid.

People disagree on a forum big ****ing deal but this martyr shit is retard to a huge degree.

i'm responding to people who frequently claim that their opinions are suppressed...all while expressing their opinions in hundreds of posts over dozens of threads.....it is freakishly dumb

it happened in this thread, like it does in every thread sooner or later

the Talking Can
09-06-2009, 10:25 PM
I missed the first two PS games. What did Dorsey do that made you optimistic (honest question)?

according to milkman, who watched him on tape, he played well...held his ground and got some penetration....

doomy3
09-06-2009, 10:27 PM
I missed the first two PS games. What did Dorsey do that made you optimistic (honest question)?

He got nice penetration in those games. I didn't rewatch the last couple like I did the first two, so I really just watched the games live and rewound a few plays, etc. But he did seem to hold the line pretty well, take up blockers, and got into the backfield quite a bit. To me, TJ looked better in all of the games than Dorsey, but Dorsey looked solid. Not top 5 solid, but definitely serviceable.

keg in kc
09-06-2009, 10:29 PM
I missed the first two PS games. What did Dorsey do that made you optimistic (honest question)?Dorsey looked really quick and was getting some penetration the first couple of weeks. As I recall. I've slept some since then, so it's all blurry.

Jackson looks like he might be a beast and the two of them, when in together, have made some noise. Without a consistent over-/nosetackle between them.

I don't think it's a mirage that the team only gave up just over 3 yards/carry in the preseason, the front 7 looked stronger against the run than they have at any time in the last 10 years (as long as I've watched the team).

Unfortunately, they (meaning the entire d) were getting eaten alive by middle/intermediate routes in the passing game. But I didn't see a whole lot in the way of scheming. They seemed content to go after the QB with the down linemen and OLBs with the occasional db-blitz thrown in and drop everybody else into coverage. Which I don't expect them to do during the year.

Either way, it's very difficult to judge based on the preseason, but I think there were some signs of hope.

splatbass
09-06-2009, 10:30 PM
Improved the defense?

The same defense that was gouged by Matt Schaub, obliterated in one quarter of work by Tarvaris ****ing Jackson to the tune of over 200 yards, and embarrassed by the cellar dwellers of the NFC West?

Yes, improved the defense. The first team looked pretty stout against the run much of the time, and the pass rush, while still not good, is certainly improved. Tackling is definitely a lot better. How many sacks did we have last year? How many this preseason? How many points per game did we give up (the only stat that really matters) last year, how many this preseason? I don't give a shit how many yards we give up if we keep the score low.

This defense isn't good enough yet, but it is most certainly improved.

doomy3
09-06-2009, 10:32 PM
Dorsey looked really quick and was getting some penetration the first couple of weeks. As I recall. I've slept some since then, so it's all blurry.

Jackson looks like he might be a beast and the two of them, when in together, have made some noise. Without a consistent over-/nosetackle between them.

I don't think it's a mirage that the team only gave up just over 3 yards/carry in the preseason, the front 7 looked stronger against the run than they have at any time in the last 10 years (as long as I've watched the team).

Unfortunately, they (meaning the entire d) were getting eaten alive by middle/intermediate routes in the passing game. But I didn't see a whole lot in the way of scheming. They seemed content to go after the QB with the down linemen and OLBs with the occasional db-blitz thrown in and drop everybody else into coverage. Which I don't expect them to do during the year.

Either way, it's very difficult to judge based on the preseason, but I think there were some signs of hope.


I also thought it was promising that they did this against two of the better backs in football (Peterson and Slaton). I kind of wish we could have seen the ones versus Steven Jackson, but Jackson didn't play.

splatbass
09-06-2009, 10:32 PM
Jesus Christ, Dirk.

Where the **** else can they go but up?

But isn't that the definition of 'improved'? You claimed they aren't.

All they have to do to be improved is move one spot up. Are you willing to say that they won't?

keg in kc
09-06-2009, 10:32 PM
How many sacks did we have last year? How many this preseason? How many points per game did we give up (the only stat that really matters) last year, how many this preseason? Those answers may not be what you expect. They had more sacks in the preseason last year than this year. They did give up far fewer points in '09 than '08, but as I recall they actually gave up even less points in '07's preseason, so I wouldn't get too carried away.

Raised On Riots
09-06-2009, 10:33 PM
According to our resident GIF-doctor, Dorsey was getting pushed around like a dumpster by a Deffenbaugh truck during both Seattle and STL.

Will he post them? I don't know, but I'd like to see them.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-06-2009, 10:33 PM
Dorsey looked really quick and was getting some penetration the first couple of weeks. As I recall. I've slept some since then, so it's all blurry.

Jackson looks like he might be a beast and the two of them, when in together, have made some noise. Without a consistent over-/nosetackle between them.

I don't think it's a mirage that the team only gave up just over 3 yards/carry in the preseason, the front 7 looked stronger against the run than they have at any time in the last 10 years (as long as I've watched the team).

Unfortunately, they (meaning the entire d) were getting eaten alive by middle/intermediate routes in the passing game. But I didn't see a whole lot in the way of scheming. They seemed content to go after the QB with the down linemen and OLBs with the occasional db-blitz thrown in and drop everybody else into coverage. Which I don't expect them to do during the year.

Either way, it's very difficult to judge based on the preseason, but I think there were some signs of hope.

Well, the 3-4 will always be a better defense against the run (more size) while sacrificing short routes in the flats due to the lack of coverage ability of the outside backers, so that is to be expected.

doomy3
09-06-2009, 10:33 PM
And also, as has been mentioned, the run defense has looked good but our pass defense has been suspect.

So, Pioli cut the guy that is probably the biggest liability in that in Pollard. That's promising.

I think most would agree that our corners are pretty solid and it is nice to see Pioli make a move like that when a guy is under performing.

Coach
09-06-2009, 10:33 PM
Not to nitpick, but DE's don't accumulate sacks in a 3-4 unless they are Bruce Smiff. If we wanted to address the pass rush first, we'd have gotten a rush backer. This was a move to shore up the run D.

While true that we somewhat still lack a pass-rush, one has to wonder that moving Hali to a OLB will help that. Of course, the Chiefs also had issues on trying to stop the run IIRC. They were 30th in the NFL in rush defense as well.

Many people were, rightfully so, concerned about Hali moving to a OLB, and I do question his coverage skills. However, if the Chiefs leave Hali on the right side, he'll be fine in that area. If he has to line up against a LT, he'll get nullified by the LT.

In all, I do believe the Chiefs will win more than 2 games, I'm sure of it. I know the schedule is tougher than last year, but I would think a better coaching staff can help, especially the head coach.

the Talking Can
09-06-2009, 10:34 PM
Dorsey looked really quick and was getting some penetration the first couple of weeks. As I recall. I've slept some since then, so it's all blurry.

Jackson looks like he might be a beast and the two of them, when in together, have made some noise. Without a consistent over-/nosetackle between them.

I don't think it's a mirage that the team only gave up just over 3 yards/carry in the preseason, the front 7 looked stronger against the run than they have at any time in the last 10 years (as long as I've watched the team).

Unfortunately, they (meaning the entire d) were getting eaten alive by middle/intermediate routes in the passing game. But I didn't see a whole lot in the way of scheming. They seemed content to go after the QB with the down linemen and OLBs with the occasional db-blitz thrown in and drop everybody else into coverage. Which I don't expect them to do during the year.

Either way, it's very difficult to judge based on the preseason, but I think there were some signs of hope.

i thought our starting front 7 was obviously better than last years...simply more talented, faster to the ball, better coached, and better tacklers...and our dl is stouter even with the obviouis weakness at NT

teams are going to gouge us in the middle and hurt us in zones with our lbs trying to cover (our lbs are ok around the line of scrimmage, not so hot in their drops)....

but it easy to see how this group - even with stated flaws - will be significantly better...the other problem of course is we have no depth

if jackson were to get injured, we'd be fubar...waaaay fubar

OnTheWarpath58
09-06-2009, 10:35 PM
But isn't that the definition of 'improved'? You claimed they aren't.

All they have to do to be improved is move one spot up. Are you willing to say that they won't?

I don't give a shit if they are ranked 20th.

If it their so-called "improvement" doesn't lead to wins, who gives a shit.

31st last year, say they get to 25th this year, but still go 2-14.

Were they really improved?

keg in kc
09-06-2009, 10:36 PM
Well, the 3-4 will always be a better defense against the run (more size) while sacrificing short routes in the flats due to the lack of coverage ability of the outside backers, so that is to be expected.They gave up some plays in the flats or on wheel routes, but the majority of the problem seemed to be tight ends and receivers in the middle of the field. Which was a WLB/DB problem I'd guess, not knowing the particulars of the scheme.

I don't think the improvement against the run was all scheme. The d-linemen look stronger to my eye than a year ago, and tackling in general has been more sure.

the Talking Can
09-06-2009, 10:36 PM
I don't give a shit if they are ranked 20th.

If it their so-called "improvement" doesn't lead to wins, who gives a shit.

31st last year, say they get to 25th this year, but still go 2-14.

Were they really improved?

of course they were


crap that is a stupid attitude....

doomy3
09-06-2009, 10:37 PM
I don't give a shit if they are ranked 20th.

If it their so-called "improvement" doesn't lead to wins, who gives a shit.

31st last year, say they get to 25th this year, but still go 2-14.

Were they really improved?


Yes.

But I think you already really know that.

Surely you would realize that during this rebuild, improvement or lack thereof will be be realized in other things other than wins and losses. There won't be many wins. I think we all understand that.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-06-2009, 10:37 PM
While true that we somewhat still lack a pass-rush, one has to wonder that moving Hali to a OLB will help that. Of course, the Chiefs also had issues on trying to stop the run IIRC. They were 30th in the NFL in rush defense as well.

Many people were, rightfully so, concerned about Hali moving to a OLB, and I do question his coverage skills. However, if the Chiefs leave Hali on the right side, he'll be fine in that area. If he has to line up against a LT, he'll get nullified by the LT.

In all, I do believe the Chiefs will win more than 2 games, I'm sure of it. I know the schedule is tougher than last year, but I would think a comptent coaching staff can help.

It's too much to expect our pass rush to be worth a rat fuck this year, but Mike Vrabel was badly exposed against the pass in '07 and '08, and they'll do the same to him and Tamba this year. I think we'll get more sacks this year, but we also may give up more yards through the air.

the Talking Can
09-06-2009, 10:37 PM
They gave up some plays in the flats or on wheel routes, but the majority of the problem seemed to be tight ends and receivers in the middle of the field. Which was a WLB/DB problem I'd guess, not knowing the particulars of the scheme.

I don't think the improvement against the run was all scheme. The d-linemen look stronger to my eye than a year ago, and tackling in general has been more sure.

outside of vrabel, i don't know if we have a lb who looks even vaguely comfortable dropping back....they are thinking and not playing...

Coach
09-06-2009, 10:38 PM
I don't give a shit if they are ranked 20th.

If it their so-called "improvement" doesn't lead to wins, who gives a shit.

31st last year, say they get to 25th this year, but still go 2-14.

Were they really improved?

Well, there are alot of factors involved in this. First one is, would you agree that this years schedule (we haven't played anybody, this I know) is more tougher than last year's schedule?

So let's assume that the Chiefs go 2-14, yet they showed improvement in the stats, and the opponents are more talented/better than their opponents from last year, would that be considered a improvement?

the Talking Can
09-06-2009, 10:39 PM
this thread is starting to feel cathartic

keg in kc
09-06-2009, 10:40 PM
Not to nitpick, but DE's don't accumulate sacks in a 3-4 unless they are Bruce Smiff. If we wanted to address the pass rush first, we'd have gotten a rush backer. This was a move to shore up the run D.I'm not going to call him Bruce Smith, but my guess is Jackson's going to get a few sacks. Hell, he had two in the preseason. I don't know if people even realized that.

OnTheWarpath58
09-06-2009, 10:40 PM
Yes.

But I think you already really know that.

Surely you would realize that during this rebuild, improvement or lack thereof will be be realized in other things other than wins and losses. There won't be many wins. I think we all understand that.

It's too much to expect our pass rush to be worth a rat fuck this year, but Mike Vrabel was badly exposed against the pass in '07 and '08, and they'll do the same to him and Tamba this year. I think we'll get more sacks this year, but we also may give up more yards through the air.

Exactly my point, Hamas.

Christ, Haley can get 22 guys off the street (and has) to get more than 10 fucking sacks.

In certain statistical categories, it would be almost impossible not to "improve" by definition.

But that doesn't make the defense as a whole better.

milkman
09-06-2009, 10:41 PM
just so we're all on the same page:

we're furious and angry that pioli acquired a consensus upgrade starter at RT and cut Richardson in the process?

and acquiring this universally agreed upgrade at our weakest position is further proof that pioli is sitting on his ass and a liar to boot?


that about sum it up?

No, we are not in universal agreement.

O'Callaghan is a fucking scrub no better than what we already had.

You could find a guy with quicker feet at a hospital for land mine survivors.

Coach
09-06-2009, 10:41 PM
It's too much to expect our pass rush to be worth a rat fuck this year, but Mike Vrabel was badly exposed against the pass in '07 and '08, and they'll do the same to him and Tamba this year. I think we'll get more sacks this year, but we also may give up more yards through the air.

As you mentioned earlier, the 3-4 is more designed to help the run, but will get exposed on the understuff passing routes, especially in the middle. So I wouldn't be one bit suprised if the run defense improves, but the pass defense is not improved.

Of course, another issue that I am having is that Clancy is having his corners play off 8-10 yards off of the LOS, which drives me nuts.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-06-2009, 10:41 PM
They gave up some plays in the flats or on wheel routes, but the majority of the problem seemed to be tight ends and receivers in the middle of the field. Which was a WLB/DB problem I'd guess, not knowing the particulars of the scheme.

I don't think the improvement against the run was all scheme. The d-linemen look stronger to my eye than a year ago, and tackling in general has been more sure.

There's no doubt that they are in better shape, which will lead to fewer rookies playing the bongos. There's also no way they could be more poorly coached.

Your bigger MLBs in the 3-4 are going to get pwnt in the middle in base coverage. That's why they all use exotic blitz schemes to create uncertainty.

The Bad Guy
09-06-2009, 10:42 PM
I don't give a shit if they are ranked 20th.

If it their so-called "improvement" doesn't lead to wins, who gives a shit.

31st last year, say they get to 25th this year, but still go 2-14.

Were they really improved?

For sake of argument, let's say the defense improves from 31st to 20th. They get more takeaways, hold teams to fewer yards, get more than 20 sacks.

But the offense really really sucks and we get one win.

Does that mean the defense didn't improve?

splatbass
09-06-2009, 10:42 PM
the other problem of course is we have no depth



That is a problem, but not one you can fix in one offseason. When you can't even fill all the holes in the stating lineup you aren't going to fill many backups. Right now, in many positions, people that would make quality backups are starting because we have no one better, leaving the backup position to scrubs. Of course I know you know this.

This team is at least 2 years away from even beginning to be competitive, so I don't see any reason for all the bitching right now.

keg in kc
09-06-2009, 10:43 PM
outside of vrabel, i don't know if we have a lb who looks even vaguely comfortable dropping back....they are thinking and not playing...And I'd guess they'll continue to look like that until October, if not later.

I still hope Derrick Johnson can do...something, anything in this defense. It's perfectly suited to what his strengths are supposed to be. He doesn't have Gunther doing stupid shit with him now. Dude's hitting the age that's supposed to be his prime, so if it doesn't happen now, then it probably never will.

the Talking Can
09-06-2009, 10:43 PM
my completely unscientific evaluation of jackson is this:

he looks like a god damn man out there


Dorsey has never looked or acted imposing to me...jackson was making waves immediately, and holding the line when that is his job....

milkman
09-06-2009, 10:43 PM
It's refreshing to see all these women posting on the Planet. We need more input from the fairer sex on here.

What the fuck do you know about sex?

You probably haven't even figured out how to get yourself off, let alone find a woman that would want to watch as you ejaculated bfore she got in the car to head out on a date with you.

Count Zarth
09-06-2009, 10:44 PM
According to our resident GIF-doctor, Dorsey was getting pushed around like a dumpster by a Deffenbaugh truck during both Seattle and STL.

Will he post them? I don't know, but I'd like to see them.

No time. But I don't think he's going to have a good season.

I expect Magee will replace him as a starter before long. He looks much quicker/more active.

the Talking Can
09-06-2009, 10:44 PM
That is a problem, but not one you can fix in one offseason. When you can't even fill all the holes in the stating lineup you aren't going to fill many backups. Right now, in many positions, people that would make quality backups are starting because we have no one better, leaving the backup position to scrubs. Of course I know you know this.

This team is at least 2 years away from even beginning to be competitive, so I don't see any reason for all the bitching right now.

no, i agree about the depth....that was unavoidable

just pointing it out as a feature...jackson has got to stay healthy, i think he is already the literal foundation of this defense...

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-06-2009, 10:45 PM
And I'd guess they'll continue to look like that until October, if not later.

I still hope Derrick Johnson can do...something, anything in this defense. It's perfectly suited to what his strengths are supposed to be. He doesn't have Gunther doing stupid shit with him now. Dude's hitting the age that's supposed to be his prime, so if it doesn't happen now, then it probably never will.

Derrick Johnson had better hope that Corey Mays is one kamikaze motherfucker, because if he's not, he's going to have to do the thing he's worst at--taking on blockers. I'd rather have him free lance as a play-making 4-3 will, honestly the thought of him QBing the D as a Mike in a 3-4 is pretty damned terrifying, because he is one dumb sonofabitch.

keg in kc
09-06-2009, 10:46 PM
As you mentioned earlier, the 3-4 is more designed to help the run, but will get exposed on the understuff passing routes, especially in the middle. So I wouldn't be one bit suprised if the run defense improves, but the pass defense is not improved.

Of course, another issue that I am having is that Clancy is having his corners play off 8-10 yards off of the LOS, which drives me nuts.I'm chalking the pad up to preseason. I can't imagine they'll play so much soft prevent-y shit when the games count.

Which of course will open up all kinds of other exploitable problems, but if figure if you're going to fuck up, make it good.

The main problem I see has been finding a reliable WLB. The mikes have been playing well, and both the ILBs have been solid against the run, but the passing game hasn't been friendly. I don't know if it's going to come together or not.

I actually think the pass defense might improve with the maturation of the young DBs, but who knows. If Flowers is out for any length of time, that's going to hurt in a big way I think.

splatbass
09-06-2009, 10:46 PM
I don't give a shit if they are ranked 20th.

If it their so-called "improvement" doesn't lead to wins, who gives a shit.

31st last year, say they get to 25th this year, but still go 2-14.

Were they really improved?

THEY AREN'T GOING TO COMPETE FOR ANYTHING THIS YEAR, NO MATTER WHAT. All we can ask for is that they improve. If you expect a 2-14 team to be good 7 months after a complete purge of the front office then you are expecting way too much.

If the defense improves to 20th this year that will be a huge step on the path to rebuilding this team. If the offense improves at all it will be a step on the path. This will take a couple of years. Relax a little.

the Talking Can
09-06-2009, 10:46 PM
And I'd guess they'll continue to look like that until October, if not later.

I still hope Derrick Johnson can do...something, anything in this defense. It's perfectly suited to what his strengths are supposed to be. He doesn't have Gunther doing stupid shit with him now. Dude's hitting the age that's supposed to be his prime, so if it doesn't happen now, then it probably never will.

man, he should thrive....but he still disappears....i will never understand how he wasn't a better player with that much natural talent...

i bet we don't resign him, or low ball him...

we need like 7 new lbs eventually....shit, lol

doomy3
09-06-2009, 10:48 PM
On the depth, it depends what position you are talking about.

Our depth on the DLine is much better than it was last year.

Our depth at CB is better than last year.

Our depth at QB is better than last year.

Our depth at LB is probably better than last year.

Yeah, we need more depth at postions like OL, WR, RB, S, but we have added depth at some key positions this offseason.

keg in kc
09-06-2009, 10:48 PM
Derrick Johnson had better hope that Corey Mays is one kamikaze mother****er, because if he's not, he's going to have to do the thing he's worst at--taking on blockers. I'd rather have him free lance as a play-making 4-3 will, honestly the thought of him QBing the D as a Mike in a 3-4 is pretty damned terrifying, because he is one dumb sonofabitch.It looks to me like Mays has been playing the mike. Although both of them looked good against the run before DJ was injured (yes, even DJ).

I don't think having Monty Beisel and Demorrio Williams in there with the ones has done any favors for the pass defense the last couple of weeks.

OnTheWarpath58
09-06-2009, 10:50 PM
For sake of argument, let's say the defense improves from 31st to 20th. They get more takeaways, hold teams to fewer yards, get more than 20 sacks.

But the offense really really sucks and we get one win.

Does that mean the defense didn't improve?

First, all those things SHOULD happen, as it's almost impossible to be statistically worse than last year. So as I pointed out, they will have "improved" by statistical definition.

I ran a 5k last year, and finished dead last. When I run it this year, should I be content if my time improves, but I still finish last?

Statistically, I improved, but I still fucking suck compared to my peers.

Coach
09-06-2009, 10:52 PM
First, all those things SHOULD happen, as it's almost impossible to be statistically worse than last year. So as I pointed out, they will have "improved" by statistical definition.

I ran a 5k last year, and finished dead last. When I run it this year, should I be content if my time improves, but I still finish last?

Statistically, I improved, but I still fucking suck compared to my peers.

But at the same time, perhaps the talent level improved at the same time?

OnTheWarpath58
09-06-2009, 10:53 PM
THEY AREN'T GOING TO COMPETE FOR ANYTHING THIS YEAR, NO MATTER WHAT. All we can ask for is that they improve. If you expect a 2-14 team to be good 7 months after a complete purge of the front office then you are expecting way too much.

If the defense improves to 20th this year that will be a huge step on the path to rebuilding this team. If the offense improves at all it will be a step on the path. This will take a couple of years. Relax a little.

Amazing the turn that's been taken around here.

Just a few months ago, we were going to be competitive, maybe even contend for the division.

Now people see the product on the field, and are asking for time.

I've said they were going to suck all along. This isn't a surprise.

I'm sorry, but you're full of shit if you can honestly say that this is what you expected when Pioli was hired.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-06-2009, 10:54 PM
It looks to me like Mays has been playing the mike. Although both of them looked good against the run before DJ was injured (yes, even DJ).

I don't think having Monty Beisel and Demorrio Williams in there with the ones has done any favors for the pass defense the last couple of weeks.

I've never seen Mays and DJ on the field at the same time, but if they both are, Mays should be the Ted. He's bigger, less athletic, and just appears to be a tougher player who doesn't care about nailing a FB or a guard. DJ needs space to operate. With his talent, he really could play LOLB or Mike in this scheme, but that fucking cocksucker Mack Brown...

Count Zarth
09-06-2009, 10:56 PM
Derrick Johnson had better hope that Corey Mays is one kamikaze motherfucker, because if he's not, he's going to have to do the thing he's worst at--taking on blockers. I'd rather have him free lance as a play-making 4-3 will, honestly the thought of him QBing the D as a Mike in a 3-4 is pretty damned terrifying, because he is one dumb sonofabitch.

You're completely ignoring the fact that DJ's position in this scheme pretty much calls for him to freelance. He's supposed to run free.

the Talking Can
09-06-2009, 10:57 PM
Amazing the turn that's been taken around here.

Just a few months ago, we were going to be competitive, maybe even contend for the division.

Now people see the product on the field, and are asking for time.

I've said they were going to suck all along. This isn't a surprise.

I'm sorry, but your full of shit if you can honestly say that this is what you expected when Pioli was hired.

most people knew we'd still suck this year...because it was obvious, and most people aren't as stupid as you pretend


you're inflating numbers as usual....and pretending you alone saw the truth is typical bullshit....

splatbass
09-06-2009, 10:57 PM
Amazing the turn that's been taken around here.

Just a few months ago, we were going to be competitive, maybe even contend for the division.

Now people see the product on the field, and are asking for time.

I've said they were going to suck all along. This isn't a surprise.

I'm sorry, but you're full of shit if you can honestly say that this is what you expected when Pioli was hired.

I don't think anyone expected the Chiefs to compete this year. You seem to be pissed that they won't though, so which of us is being unrealistic?

Raised On Riots
09-06-2009, 10:57 PM
No time. But I don't think he's going to have a good season.

I expect Magee will replace him as a starter before long. He looks much quicker/more active.

No time? Yet you have time to run a fucking Iowa Caucus against Pollard?

Let me put this as succinctly and directly as I can:

Eat Dick.

OnTheWarpath58
09-06-2009, 10:58 PM
most people knew we'd still suck this year...because it was obvious, and most people aren't as stupid as you pretend


you're inflating numbers as usual....and pretending you alone saw the truth is typical bullshit....

Where did I say I saw it alone?

Hell, Dane took that stance well before I did. I actually thought that Pioli would make enough quality moves to get us 6 wins or so, even against a brutal schedule.

Count Zarth
09-06-2009, 11:00 PM
No time? Yet you have time to run a fucking Iowa Caucus against Pollard?

Let me put this as succinctly and directly as I can:

Eat Dick.

LMAO

Dorsey doesn't suck at his job as much as Pollard did.

Operative word, "did."

Cus that motherfucker don't HAVE a job no mo! :evil:

The Bad Guy
09-06-2009, 11:00 PM
Amazing the turn that's been taken around here.

Just a few months ago, we were going to be competitive, maybe even contend for the division.

Now people see the product on the field, and are asking for time.

I've said they were going to suck all along. This isn't a surprise.

I'm sorry, but you're full of shit if you can honestly say that this is what you expected when Pioli was hired.

I think some people underestimated how bad this roster was, and the talent evaluators that this team has had in place over the last decade. Is it a coincidence that the players the Chiefs let go are hardly ever claimed or signed?

OnTheWarpath58
09-06-2009, 11:02 PM
I don't think anyone expected the Chiefs to compete this year. You seem to be pissed that they won't though, so which of us is being unrealistic?

I'm not pissed about this year at all.

I'm a bit concerned that after 6 months on the job, our depth is just as piss-poor as it was under Herm, arguably worse.

That doesn't bode well for being better in 2010, 2011, etc.

The Bad Guy
09-06-2009, 11:02 PM
First, all those things SHOULD happen, as it's almost impossible to be statistically worse than last year. So as I pointed out, they will have "improved" by statistical definition.

I ran a 5k last year, and finished dead last. When I run it this year, should I be content if my time improves, but I still finish last?

Statistically, I improved, but I still ****ing suck compared to my peers.

You are making this a one-sided thing. There are three phases in the NFL. One unit can be decent while the others suck and there would be no progress made in the record.

If you were running a relay, and your time improved, but the others on your team did not, would you refuse to ignore the progress YOU made?

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-06-2009, 11:03 PM
You're completely ignoring the fact that DJ's position in this scheme pretty much calls for him to freelance. He's supposed to run free.

Here's the problem:

Tank/Edwards and Mays need to occupy 3 blockers on every play, or he's completely nullified by any team with a fullback, and that's his biggest weakness. He *can* freelance in this scheme, but he can only do so to the extent that Tyler and Mays allow him to.

OnTheWarpath58
09-06-2009, 11:03 PM
I think some people underestimated how bad this roster was, and the talent evaluators that this team has had in place over the last decade. Is it a coincidence that the players the Chiefs let go are hardly ever claimed or signed?

I agree with the underestimation of the roster.

But let's face it, the players that are cut from the worst teams in football are rarely claimed or signed.

That's not exclusive to the Chiefs.

The Bad Guy
09-06-2009, 11:04 PM
I agree with the underestimation of the roster.

But let's face it, the players that are cut from the worst teams in football are rarely claimed or signed.

That's not exclusive to the Chiefs.

No, it's not. But even before this was the worst team in football, rarely did a player cut sign on somewhere else.

Count Zarth
09-06-2009, 11:04 PM
Here's the problem:

Tank/Edwards and Mays need to occupy 3 blockers on every play, or he's completely nullified by any team with a fullback, and that's his biggest weakness. He *can* freelance in this scheme, but he can only do so to the extent that Tyler and Mays allow him to.

Good point. Nose tackle play has sucked this preseason. Hell, Tank hasn't even claimed the starting spot. Pathetic.

doomy3
09-06-2009, 11:06 PM
Amazing the turn that's been taken around here.

Just a few months ago, we were going to be competitive, maybe even contend for the division.

Now people see the product on the field, and are asking for time.

I've said they were going to suck all along. This isn't a surprise.

I'm sorry, but you're full of shit if you can honestly say that this is what you expected when Pioli was hired.


See, I think the thing that is being misunderstood here is this:

Just because people didn't take the opportunity like yourself or Dane to make sure EVERYONE on the board knew how much you thought the Chiefs suck doesn't mean that we thought the Chiefs would win the division or anything like that.

I doubt you could find a post from anyone contributing in this thread on either side that says anything of the sort, or even that anyone in this thread expected a large turn around in Wins and Losses this year.

You overkill on the posts about us sucking, so why would we all need to keep repeating that? There's no point to that. Perhaps that's why you think everyone is on Pioli's jock. There is a small group that just beat the shit out of the "negative" stuff at every chance in every thread, so why would we all need to keep repeating that?

doomy3
09-06-2009, 11:08 PM
I'm not pissed about this year at all.

I'm a bit concerned that after 6 months on the job, our depth is just as piss-poor as it was under Herm, arguably worse.

That doesn't bode well for being better in 2010, 2011, etc.


What positions do we have worse depth at right now than we had last year?

I stated that I feel we have better depth at DLine, LB, CB, QB. Where do we have worse depth at IYO?

Easy 6
09-06-2009, 11:08 PM
I'm a bit concerned that after 6 months on the job, our depth is just as piss-poor as it was under Herm, arguably worse.
.

Depth Schmepth...this team still needs a workable, starting 22.

This isnt a magic show.

OnTheWarpath58
09-06-2009, 11:08 PM
You are making this a one-sided thing. There are three phases in the NFL. One unit can be decent while the others suck and there would be no progress made in the record.

If you were running a relay, and your time improved, but the others on your team did not, would you refuse to ignore the progress YOU made?

Personally, yeah, I would.

Because as a team, we failed. The end result is still a loss.

I have no doubt we'll get more than 10 sacks this year - it's almost impossible not to.

But that won't mean the defense is improved, especially when our pass defense is suffering because we're sending the farm to get to the QB, exposing our shitty LB corp in the passing game.

Count Zarth
09-06-2009, 11:09 PM
But that won't mean the defense is improved, especially when our pass defense is suffering because we're sending the farm to get to the QB, exposing our shitty LB corp in the passing game.

I would say you're being a little harsh, here.

Vrabel and Hali have been winning one-on-one's this preseason. They aren't just running free.

J Diddy
09-06-2009, 11:11 PM
Well Jackson's not the next Wilfork. They play different positions,
Tom Brady is one of the five best QBs ever, and you can't expect to hit on draft picks like that more than once every 20-30 years.

Even if Pioli is the GOAT, you're asking him to hit on all those acquisitions so perfectly is like expecting Tiger Woods to shoot a 53 at Whistling Straits.

Then why are you bitching?

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-06-2009, 11:11 PM
Good point. Nose tackle play has sucked this preseason. Hell, Tank hasn't even claimed the starting spot. Pathetic.

That's one of the reasons why people were totally stunned that we made no effort to get a 0 technique in the offseason. Not that they're easy to find, but they could have had Raji, or made a run at a guy like Sammie Lee Hill in Round 4, who is a gigantic motherfucker and has played pretty well this preseason.

OnTheWarpath58
09-06-2009, 11:11 PM
What positions do we have worse depth at right now than we had last year?

I stated that I feel we have better depth at DLine, LB, CB, QB. Where do we have worse depth at IYO?

Out of all that, I'd agree with having more DL depth, only because they spent 2 more draft picks there.

The others?

If the starters get hurt, we're fucked. Having depth means that the next man up steps in and you don't see much of a dropoff in performance.

And in the case of the LB's, it doesn't even matter - the starters are ass.

(though Mays will at least produce up to or above his expectations/pay)

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-06-2009, 11:12 PM
Then why are you bitching?

You completely missed the point of that post.

Count Zarth
09-06-2009, 11:13 PM
That's one of the reasons why people were totally stunned that we made no effort to get a 0 technique in the offseason. Not that they're easy to find, but they could have had Raji, or made a run at a guy like Sammie Lee Hill in Round 4, who is a gigantic motherfucker and has played pretty well this preseason.

They did try to get Haynesworth. I know that much. But they couldn't compete with Snyder.

But not drafting Raji (or Brace) is curious. You can only conclude that they didn't like him.

By the way, it stuns me that you watch other team's fourth-rounders in preseason.

OnTheWarpath58
09-06-2009, 11:13 PM
I would say you're being a little harsh, here.

Vrabel and Hali have been winning one-on-one's this preseason. They aren't just running free.

I'd say that when teams are actually gameplanning, and not running the same 6 plays in the PS, you'll see our LB's get exposed.

I hope I'm wrong.

Mecca
09-06-2009, 11:15 PM
They did try to get Haynesworth. I know that much. But they couldn't compete with Snyder.

But not drafting Raji (or Brace) is curious. You can only conclude that they didn't like him.

By the way, it stuns me that you watch other team's fourth-rounders in preseason.

Lots of people do that...when teams put their backups on the field it's best to watch their draft picks and see how they perform.

Mecca
09-06-2009, 11:16 PM
I'd say that when teams are actually gameplanning, and not running the same 6 plays in the PS, you'll see our LB's get exposed.

I hope I'm wrong.

If I played the Chiefs my entire gameplan would revolve around in pounding the ball up the middle and getting the LB's especially the OLB's matched up in coverage with TE's and RB's swinging out.

J Diddy
09-06-2009, 11:16 PM
LMAO

Dorsey doesn't suck at his job as much as Pollard did.

Operative word, "did."

Cus that mother****er don't HAVE a job no mo! :evil:

I take it from your sig that you've never played a down of football.

It's great to hit hard to let them know where you're coming from. The second you try to put someone on a stretcher you're no better than the wr from oregon.

Count Zarth
09-06-2009, 11:16 PM
Lots of people do that...when teams put their backups on the field it's best to watch their draft picks and see how they perform.

I don't watch other teams during the preseason, except the AFC West teams a little bit.

No stomach for it. Watching the third quarter of a Chiefs preseason game is bad enough.

OnTheWarpath58
09-06-2009, 11:17 PM
Depth Schmepth...this team still needs a workable, starting 22.

This isnt a magic show.

Hell, the few positions we actually have a promising starter, we have jack shit behind him.

Anyone want to tell us who the backup LT is?

6 days before the season opener, and we have no backup to the most important position on the OL.

But hey, Pioli has a plan. Everything will be just fine. Please move on, there's nothing to see here.

Count Zarth
09-06-2009, 11:17 PM
I take it from your sig that you've never played a down of football.

It's great to hit hard to let them know where you're coming from. The second you try to put someone on a stretcher you're no better than the wr from oregon.

I take it from your post that you have no clue where that quote originated from.

I'll give you a hint: He was a bad-ass motherfucking linebacker who kicked ass in the NFL.

keg in kc
09-06-2009, 11:17 PM
Just a few months ago, we were going to be competitive, maybe even contend for the division.I don't remember anybody saying they'd contend for the division this year. At any time. Everybody knows they went 6-26 the last two years and that football teams don't generally turn on a dime. The closest to that kind of thing was somebody last week predicting 9 wins. Which I think everybody laughed off. But as far as I can tell pretty much everyone has been in the 4-7 win ballpark for all of 2009.

Mecca
09-06-2009, 11:17 PM
I don't watch other teams during the preseason, except the AFC West teams a little bit.

No stomach for it. Watching the third quarter of a Chiefs preseason game is bad enough.

LOL, well some of our fandom for the game itself has different levels, I watched about 20 college games over the last 2 days.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-06-2009, 11:18 PM
They did try to get Haynesworth. I know that much. But they couldn't compete with Snyder.

But not drafting Raji (or Brace) is curious. You can only conclude that they didn't like him.

By the way, it stuns me that you watch other team's fourth-rounders in preseason.

Going after Haynesworth was a sucker move, anyway. But there were some guys to be had out there.

Ultimately it came down to this:

It was a great year for OL depth and a bad one for DL depth, and yet we invested far more resources into the area with fewer players who also have far higher costs--and those guys don't protect our most important and expensive player.

It's not like there weren't quality players in rounds 3-7 who could have improved both our O-Line and D-Line. You could make a pretty convincing argument that every pick in the draft could have been spent on the lines (or a rush backer) and been an excellent allocation of both need and value.

OnTheWarpath58
09-06-2009, 11:18 PM
If I played the Chiefs my entire gameplan would revolve around in pounding the ball up the middle and getting the LB's especially the OLB's matched up in coverage with TE's and RB's swinging out.

Me too, and that's exactly what I expect to happen.

Especially considering the teams we play the 1st 8 weeks can really pound the ball.

chiefzilla1501
09-06-2009, 11:19 PM
Hell, the few positions we actually have a promising starter, we have jack shit behind him.

Anyone want to tell us who the backup LT is?

6 days before the season opener, and we have no backup to the most important position on the OL.

But hey, Pioli has a plan. Everything will be just fine. Please move on, there's nothing to see here.

I'm with you on this. CUtting Taylor was strange. Cutting both Taylor and Richardson is beyond stupid.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-06-2009, 11:19 PM
I take it from your sig that you've never played a down of football.

It's great to hit hard to let them know where you're coming from. The second you try to put someone on a stretcher you're no better than the wr from oregon.

Our HS QB used to lead us in practice just so we'd get lit up. What a fucking cocksucker that guy was.

Mecca
09-06-2009, 11:20 PM
Me too, and that's exactly what I expect to happen.

Especially considering the teams we play the 1st 8 weeks can really pound the ball.

You do that enough the Chiefs will have to over commit to the middle/helping the LB's in coverage opening the outside run game and the deep ball to the outside WR's...

That gameplan alone is why I think a team like Dallas is a severe matchup problem for the Chiefs.

Count Zarth
09-06-2009, 11:20 PM
All I can say is I can't wait for the fallout from the Ravens game.

It's gonna be epic.

Mecca
09-06-2009, 11:21 PM
Looking at the OL position there are to many guards and not enough OT's if they were going to keep Ndukwe, guy is a guard it was time to cut Wade Smith and get another OT.

J Diddy
09-06-2009, 11:21 PM
You completely missed the point of that post.


perhaps, but I took it as alot of great things have happened while pioli has been involved but they may never happen again.

There's 2 ways of looking at that. He's made fire once should I trust him to make fire again or should I trust someone who's never made fire to perhaps rise to the challenge and show how he can handle the pressure.?

That being said there are 3 possible ways to look at this new regime. They won't get it, they will get it quickly or they will get it with time.

I myself include me in the last category. You can't unfuck a carl herm gunther solari robinson diarrhea experiment overnight.

btw, cover 2 works great if youre a pussy.

chiefzilla1501
09-06-2009, 11:22 PM
That's one of the reasons why people were totally stunned that we made no effort to get a 0 technique in the offseason. Not that they're easy to find, but they could have had Raji, or made a run at a guy like Sammie Lee Hill in Round 4, who is a gigantic mother****er and has played pretty well this preseason.

I'm not that concerned about this. Worst case, you have a leaky defense in year 1. That was going to happen regardless. And if the Chiefs run a lot of 4-3 Under, you don't need a stud at nose tackle. I don't think we've made too many horrendous decisions on defense.

Apart from aggressively going after Cassel, I think the Chiefs whiffed in a lot of ways on building the offense.

keg in kc
09-06-2009, 11:22 PM
All I can say is I can't wait for the fallout from the Ravens game.

It's gonna be epic.I doubt it. Everybody expects a loss.

If you want a real meltdown, then the Raiders need to beat them week 2.

Mecca
09-06-2009, 11:23 PM
The Raiders defense has enough to clusterfuck the Chiefs offense...that will be an odd week for sure.

J Diddy
09-06-2009, 11:23 PM
Our HS QB used to lead us in practice just so we'd get lit up. What a ****ing one who sucks the penis that guy was.


No shit? He'd stretch you out to dry?

I'd have pulled some full metal jacket code red shit on his ass.

OnTheWarpath58
09-06-2009, 11:24 PM
I doubt it. Everybody expects a loss.

If you want a real meltdown, then the Raiders need to beat them week 2.

This.

Remember last year?

Mecca
09-06-2009, 11:25 PM
For all the people who think that is an easy win, I want to know how the Chiefs are going to move the ball.

J Diddy
09-06-2009, 11:26 PM
I take it from your post that you have no clue where that quote originated from.

I'll give you a hint: He was a bad-ass mother****ing linebacker who kicked ass in the NFL.


No I don't, but whomever it was ( and I pray it wasn't DT) lost something along the way. I've hit a guy and he didn't get up for about 5 minutes and it was the no THE worst feeling in the world.

the Talking Can
09-06-2009, 11:27 PM
For all the people who think that is an easy win, I want to know how the Chiefs are going to move the ball.

LMAO


sorry, but who are those people?

i've missed those posts...

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-06-2009, 11:27 PM
I'm not that concerned about this. Worst case, you have a leaky defense in year 1. That was going to happen regardless. And if the Chiefs run a lot of 4-3 Under, you don't need a stud at nose tackle. I don't think we've made too many horrendous decisions on defense.

Apart from aggressively going after Cassel, I think the Chiefs whiffed in a lot of ways on building the offense.

Read a few posts later. We agree.

keg in kc
09-06-2009, 11:27 PM
I'm really curious to see how both units look with actual scheme and playbook in action.

I'll be in the minority on this, but, while I am someone that thinks talent generally trumps coaching, I also believe the coordinating from 2006-2009 coached down the players. So I think the starters, or some of the starters, on both sides of the ball, are actually better than they looked the last couple of years.

The problem is that I don't know if the current coaches are an improvement or not. Only the games will tell that tale.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-06-2009, 11:28 PM
No shit? He'd stretch you out to dry?

I'd have pulled some full metal jacket code red shit on his ass.

When you're a 150 lb. freshman and he's a 6'4" 220 lb. senior, you pretty much just get lit the fuck up and thank god that you weren't given an oil change by a bunch of latent homosexuals in the locker room after practice.

OnTheWarpath58
09-06-2009, 11:28 PM
LMAO


sorry, but who are those people?

i've missed those posts...

Beating Oakland?

There's only a few of us that think that game might be a problem.

Everyone else always chalks up an automatic win against them, and the Broncos at home.

Mecca
09-06-2009, 11:29 PM
LMAO


sorry, but who are those people?

i've missed those posts...

Have you not seen all the posts about how the Chiefs are going to sweep the Broncos and Raiders?

Mecca
09-06-2009, 11:30 PM
Games with the Broncos and Raiders have a blatant issue I think is being overlooked that the Chiefs will have to overcome to win.

the Talking Can
09-06-2009, 11:31 PM
I'm really curious to see how both units look with actual scheme and playbook in action.

I'll be in the minority on this, but, while I am someone that thinks talent generally trumps coaching, I also believe the coordinating from 2006-2009 coached down the players. So I think the starters, or some of the starters, on both sides of the ball, are actually better than they looked the last couple of years.

The problem is that I don't know if the current coaches are an improvement or not. Only the games will tell that tale.

the problem is we could be better in a lot of ways, but still lose a shitload...which will cause a lot of people - fans in general - to go ape shit....

this year is all about small victories, individual improvement, draft picks showing us sometihng, adaptation to new schemes, and hopefully a few wins to give the players some hope during a long season...

J Diddy
09-06-2009, 11:31 PM
When you're a 150 lb. freshman and he's a 6'4" 220 lb. senior, you pretty much just get lit the **** up and thank god that you weren't given an oil change by a bunch of latent homosexuals in the locker room after practice.

LMAO
Fair enough.

but what's 70 pounds when you're faster than him?:D

Reaper16
09-06-2009, 11:31 PM
LMAO


sorry, but who are those people?

i've missed those posts...
Look at those poll threads about how many wins one expects the Chiefs to have. People were chalking up sweeps of the Broncos and Raiders en masse.

the Talking Can
09-06-2009, 11:31 PM
Have you not seen all the posts about how the Chiefs are going to sweep the Broncos and Raiders?

i guess not....oh well...

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-06-2009, 11:31 PM
I'm really curious to see how both units look with actual scheme and playbook in action.

I'll be in the minority on this, but, while I am someone that thinks talent generally trumps coaching, I also believe the coordinating from 2006-2009 coached down the players. So I think the starters, or some of the starters, on both sides of the ball, are actually better than they looked the last couple of years.

The problem is that I don't know if the current coaches are an improvement or not. Only the games will tell that tale.

There is truth to this. DV's Chiefs were very well coached on offense. They were well-conditioned, and they ran shit down to the bone. Combine that with good talent, and you had an elite offense. Hell, the 2001 O is better than anything we've had since, and that was with a skeleton crew at WR and a misuse of Priest for several games.

the Talking Can
09-06-2009, 11:32 PM
Look at those poll threads about how many wins one expects the Chiefs to have. People were chalking up sweeps of the Broncos and Raiders en masse.

the vast majority of the people on the last poll chose 6 or less wins....seemed sane to me, i didn't check who they were picking

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-06-2009, 11:32 PM
LMAO
Fair enough.

but what's 70 pounds when you're faster than him?:D

He ran a 4.5 40. He later went on to become a holder on a IAA team. Oh well, he had shit for brains, anyway.

Mecca
09-06-2009, 11:33 PM
If you're the Broncos or the Raiders and you're lining up against the Chiefs...you can literally stack your entire team in the box.

Both of those teams have 1 CB who can take away the Chiefs best offensive player by himself, so you factor that in, with an entire team sitting in the box for the run and mixed blitzes, how does the Chiefs offense function against these teams?

Reaper16
09-06-2009, 11:34 PM
the vast majority of the people on the last poll chose 6 or less wins....seemed sane to me, i didn't check who they were picking
The last poll was a revised one based on preseason play. The initial point of this side-discussion was that people had much higher expectations before the preseason bases solely on faith in Pioli. The first poll had a lot more enthusiastic responses.

J Diddy
09-06-2009, 11:34 PM
Have you not seen all the posts about how the Chiefs are going to sweep the Broncos and Raiders?

I think that's alot of people piping up defending their pride. Truth is our team is gonna struggle and god willing get better as the year progresses. We still got weaknesses and everybody's praying for a probowler or 2 on the waiver wire. This year isn't gonna be pretty but if we can progress to the point that we need a few additions to make us competitive then I will consider it a success.

the Talking Can
09-06-2009, 11:34 PM
The last poll was a revised one based on preseason play. The initial point of this side-discussion was that people had much higher expectations before the preseason bases solely on faith in Pioli. The first poll had a lot more enthusiastic responses.

fair enough

keg in kc
09-06-2009, 11:35 PM
Automatic win does not mean easy win.

I figure the Chiefs will win because the Raiders like to implode when we play them. Doesn't mean it can't go the other way. Doesn't mean I think it'll be 45-6. I figure it'll be decided by a TD or less.

And I think playing Denver will go the same way, although I think there's a real good chance they just fall apart this year.

Either way, I will be disappointed if they lose to Oakland. I would hope everybody is.

Mecca
09-06-2009, 11:35 PM
What I take from those polls is most people expect to win 3 out of 4 from the Broncos and Raiders and beat Cincy and Cleveland.

J Diddy
09-06-2009, 11:35 PM
He ran a 4.5 40. He later went on to become a holder on a IAA team. Oh well, he had shit for brains, anyway.

you play 4 years? j/c?

keg in kc
09-06-2009, 11:37 PM
The last poll was a revised one based on preseason play. The initial point of this side-discussion was that people had much higher expectations before the preseason bases solely on faith in Pioli. The first poll had a lot more enthusiastic responses.Is that faith in Pioli, or the fact that it's easier to be optimistic the further removed you are from the season?

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-06-2009, 11:37 PM
If you're the Broncos or the Raiders and you're lining up against the Chiefs...you can literally stack your entire team in the box.

Both of those teams have 1 CB who can take away the Chiefs best offensive player by himself, so you factor that in, with an entire team sitting in the box for the run and mixed blitzes, how does the Chiefs offense function against these teams?

You also forgot the part where 3 of our 5 OL positions are well below league average, and we don't have a TE as a safety valve for the blitz.

We're going to have to do some really exotic shit to move the chains--splitting Charles out wide, using Cottam as an H-Back, sacrificing live chickens...

Mecca
09-06-2009, 11:38 PM
Is that faith in Pioli, or the fact that it's easier to be optimistic the further removed you are from the season?

I think it was the thought that "hey we almost won some last year and we're better now with the front office moves"

Problem is we still don't have talent and a few points is the difference in good and bad teams in todays league. Rarely are teams consistently blown out even bad teams are in most of their games.

Reaper16
09-06-2009, 11:39 PM
Is that faith in Pioli, or the fact that it's easier to be optimistic the further removed you are from the season?
Beats me; I don't care about easy. I put two wins on that first poll.

I actually improved that to three wins on the newer poll based on defensive play in preseason.

Mecca
09-06-2009, 11:40 PM
You also forgot the part where 3 of our 5 OL positions are well below league average, and we don't have a TE as a safety valve for the blitz.

We're going to have to do some really exotic shit to move the chains--splitting Charles out wide, using Cottam as an H-Back, sacrificing live chickens...

It's just not a good matchup, not to mention both teams can run the ball. For as tarded as the Broncos have been all offseason they have a good offensive line.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-06-2009, 11:40 PM
you play 4 years? j/c?

3. No JuCo for me. I was basically a slower, smaller, more brittle version of Tom Waddle.

keg in kc
09-06-2009, 11:40 PM
What I take from those polls is most people expect to win 3 out of 4 from the Broncos and Raiders and beat Cincy and Cleveland.I'm thinking 3 wins in the division and 3 wins out of it. I expect a couple of wins will be surprises and a couple will be disappointing. I think more of the games will be close than people expect.

Mecca
09-06-2009, 11:41 PM
3. No JuCo for me. I was basically a slower, smaller, more brittle version of Tom Waddle.

I was...Peter Tom Willis.

Mecca
09-06-2009, 11:42 PM
I'm thinking 3 wins in the division and 3 wins out of it. I expect a couple of wins will be surprises and a couple will be disappointing. I think more of the games will be close than people expect.

Didn't you say they'd beat the Eagles or something insane like that?

J Diddy
09-06-2009, 11:43 PM
3. No JuCo for me. I was basically a slower, smaller, more brittle version of Tom Waddle.

If it makes you feel better I was a 5'6" 125 pound rb who did get an offer from NEO but it was a longshot. I doubt I'd even seen the field so I passed, besides I had a family getting ready to be on the way.

chiefzilla1501
09-06-2009, 11:43 PM
You also forgot the part where 3 of our 5 OL positions are well below league average, and we don't have a TE as a safety valve for the blitz.

We're going to have to do some really exotic shit to move the chains--splitting Charles out wide, using Cottam as an H-Back, sacrificing live chickens...

Yup. But with our offensive line, I don't think we can even afford to have an H-back. That guy will probably have to be an extra blocker. So that takes away one more option.

keg in kc
09-06-2009, 11:44 PM
Problem is we still don't have talent and a few points is the difference in good and bad teams in todays league. Rarely are teams consistently blown out even bad teams are in most of their games.Yep, which is one of the reasons I migrate closer to 6 wins than 4. They'll be in games they shouldn't be. Nature of the league.

I think the conditioning may pay dividends, too. I think they may pull some games out late that they didn't a year ago because they won't be dragging ass all over the place.

Anyway, they play enough other bad teams that they should win a few.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-06-2009, 11:47 PM
I'm thinking 3 wins in the division and 3 wins out of it. I expect a couple of wins will be surprises and a couple will be disappointing. I think more of the games will be close than people expect.

The biggest thing that people are forgetting is that this is a playmaker's league.

We don't have one game-changer anywhere on this team. It's going to make it so difficult for us to convert in 3rd downs. I would be stunned if his weren't one of the 3-4 worst 3rd down O's in the league; Conversely, our 3rd down D is going to get shredded.

Count Zarth
09-06-2009, 11:48 PM
3. No JuCo for me. I was basically a slower, smaller, more brittle version of Tom Waddle.

Tom Riddle, you mean, you evil fuck.

Mecca
09-06-2009, 11:51 PM
The biggest thing that people are forgetting is that this is a playmaker's league.

We don't have one game-changer anywhere on this team. It's going to make it so difficult for us to convert in 3rd downs. I would be stunned if his weren't one of the 3-4 worst 3rd down O's in the league; Conversely, our 3rd down D is going to get shredded.

That's another thing, I think it was the beginning of last year I read a piece where a scout pointed out how the league was driven by playmakers. And with all of the teams being relatively close the team that had the playmakers to make the 5 or 6 big plays that happen in a game would be the difference in wins and losses.

keg in kc
09-06-2009, 11:52 PM
Didn't you say they'd beat the Eagles or something insane like that?Not exactly. I said I could see it happening (at least I think that's what I said).

Where that comes from is that I think they'll probably beat a couple of teams that they shouldn't. So when I say I can see them upsetting the eagles, that doesn't mean it's a logical prediction, it means that crazy shit happens in the NFL and that seems like the kind of week it could happen. Week after the Saints, week before the bye. Team they should demolish. Oops.

Similar story with Dallas.

I think they win one of those three games, Philly, Giants, Dallas. Maybe even two. I probably said I could see them starting 0-2 (which means losing to Oakland...) and then upsetting Philly, in fact. Then losing to the Giants and then beating Dallas.

Do I think they should win any of those games? Do I think they're good matchups or clearly winnable games? No.

I just think crazy shit happens...

splatbass
09-06-2009, 11:53 PM
I'm really curious to see how both units look with actual scheme and playbook in action.

I'll be in the minority on this, but, while I am someone that thinks talent generally trumps coaching, I also believe the coordinating from 2006-2009 coached down the players. So I think the starters, or some of the starters, on both sides of the ball, are actually better than they looked the last couple of years.

The problem is that I don't know if the current coaches are an improvement or not. Only the games will tell that tale.

Hey now, optimism is not allowed here. :cuss:

Mecca
09-06-2009, 11:54 PM
Man those NFC east teams are just such horrible matchups.

Dallas has everything you could ask for to make the Chiefs look bad.

tk13
09-06-2009, 11:56 PM
All I hope for is that we play hard. That was the one thing I didn't like about Herm, we coasted through training camp. I think that is probably something that hurt us that doesn't get mentioned as much. As much as people railed on DV for his insane practices our teams usually played smart, our defense stunk but that probably had a lot to do with the talent evaluation.

We're going to lack talent but hopefully we will win a game or two we shouldn't because we've prepared better, our team is actually in shape, and we have a coaching staff that will be working hard to formulate a game plan every week. Hopefully.

splatbass
09-06-2009, 11:57 PM
Games with the Broncos and Raiders have a blatant issue I think is being overlooked that the Chiefs will have to overcome to win.

The games against those two teams are almost always competitive - no matter how the teams are playing a particular year.

Raised On Riots
09-06-2009, 11:58 PM
We're going to have to do some really exotic shit to move the chains--splitting Charles out wide, using Cottam as an H-Back, sacrificing live chickens...

LMAO

keg in kc
09-07-2009, 12:01 AM
We don't have one game-changer anywhere on this team. That's where we disagree.

I think Flowers is one. I think Page can be one in the right situation. I think Dorsey and Jackson will both be. I think Derrick Johnson could be (but I don't know if he will, seems a little late to start). I just don't know about Hali at this point. I'm not as down on him as some, but game-changer might be a stretch. Then again, if the sacks can come at the right time.

I think Bowe is one. I think Larry Johnson can be one, behind the left side of the line. I don't know if Cassel can be one or not, however. I think Charles could be a playmaker on 3rd down. They need to find one more reciever.

The other side of the playmaking coin is whether or not we have coordinators that can put the players in a position to make plays. Something Gunther and Solari/Gailey definitely were not. I thought, actually, the last preseason game was encouraging on offense. Yes, I know, the Rams...but plays were there to be made, Croyle just happened to be a hair off.

I'm actually excited for the season to start. I don't necessarily need to see wins, although that's obviously the only real measuring stick. But it's not about wins as much as it's about curiousity. I want to see if these players and these coaches can be competitive, and look like they belong on the field. I have a lot of questions that I want to see answered, is I guess a way to put it. Hard to explain.

splatbass
09-07-2009, 12:01 AM
I think it was the thought that "hey we almost won some last year and we're better now with the front office moves"

Problem is we still don't have talent and a few points is the difference in good and bad teams in todays league. Rarely are teams consistently blown out even bad teams are in most of their games.

We lost a bunch by a few points last year. Largely because we faded in the 4th quarter. If we have better conditioning this year maybe we can win some of those.

Count Zarth
09-07-2009, 12:02 AM
I think Charles can be a game-changer on ANY down. Glad I am not the only one who thinks so.

Just Passin' By
09-07-2009, 12:03 AM
Hamas came back and was posting relatively sanely and with some legitimate insight. Then Milkman loses his mind over absolutely nothing, the rest of the 'Gang' chime in and it becomes an idiot's paradise all over again.

That's a shame, because Hamas was actually worth talking to for a while.

Reaper16
09-07-2009, 12:03 AM
I think Charles can be a game-changer on ANY down. Glad I am not the only one who thinks so.
This is true. He is apt to fumble on any down.

keg in kc
09-07-2009, 12:03 AM
Man those NFC east teams are just such horrible matchups.

Dallas has everything you could ask for to make the Chiefs look bad.Fortunately games aren't played on paper.

Or unfortunately, sometimes.

The Chiefs have been on the wrong side of that "team overcomes horrible matchup" storyline a few times over the years.

splatbass
09-07-2009, 12:04 AM
Didn't you say they'd beat the Eagles or something insane like that?

Every year some crappy team beats a good team, it happens. So it is unlikely, but not impossible. That is why they play the games instead of just naming the best team the winner. ;)

Reaper16
09-07-2009, 12:04 AM
Hamas came back and was posting relatively sanely and with some legitimate insight. Then Milkman loses his mind over absolutely nothing, the rest of the 'Gang' chime in and it becomes an idiot's paradise all over again.

That's a shame, because Hamas was actually worth talking to for a while.
Walk into an AIDS tree™

Count Zarth
09-07-2009, 12:04 AM
Hamas came back and was posting relatively sanely and with some legitimate insight. Then Milkman loses his mind over absolutely nothing, the rest of the 'Gang' chime in and it becomes an idiot's paradise all over again.

That's a shame, because Hamas was actually worth talking to for a while.

Ain't it cool?

http://www.popstarsplus.com/images/JohnTravoltaPicture.jpg

Mecca
09-07-2009, 12:06 AM
If your best defensive player is a CB that can be marginalized as the other team can avoid him. It will be a benefit when the other teams only playmaker is a WR, but I don't think any teams will gamplan to come out and attack the Chiefs CB's.

They're going to have to get someone on offense to step up.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-07-2009, 12:07 AM
That's where we disagree.

I think Flowers is one. I think Page can be one in the right situation. I think Dorsey and Jackson will both be. I think Derrick Johnson could be (but I don't know if he will, seems a little late to start). I just don't know about Hali at this point. I'm not as down on him as some, but game-changer might be a stretch. Then again, if the sacks can come at the right time.

I think Bowe is one. I think Larry Johnson can be one, behind the left side of the line. I don't know if Cassel can be one or not, however. I think Charles could be a playmaker on 3rd down. They need to find one more reciever.

The other side of the playmaking coin is whether or not we have coordinators that can put the players in a position to make plays. Something Gunther and Solari/Gailey definitely were not. I thought, actually, the last preseason game was encouraging on offense. Yes, I know, the Rams...but plays were there to be made, Croyle just happened to be a hair off.

I'm actually excited for the season to start. I don't necessarily need to see wins, although that's obviously the only real measuring stick. But it's not about wins as much as it's about curiousity. I want to see if these players and these coaches can be competitive, and look like they belong on the field. I have a lot of questions that I want to see answered, is I guess a way to put it. Hard to explain.

Playmakers and true game changers on D are guys like DeMarcus Ware, Mario Williams, Joey Porter, Shaun Rogers, Terrell Suggs, Haloti Ngata, Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, Nnamdi Asomugha, Champ Bailey, Dwight Freeney, Vince Wilfork, Casey Hampton, James Harrison, etc.

On offense you're talking about guys who are in the top 7-8 in their skill positions, with the exception of TE, where it's 3-5.

The Chiefs don't have anyone outside of Dwayne Bowe that would qualify as a true playmaker, and he can be taken out of a game far more easily than a RB.

And Dorsey and Jackson may well be down the line, but they won't be this year. Flowers can be a solid, Pro Bowl level corner, but without a pass rush, it's gonna be hard for him to make plays. Page...well, no.

J Diddy
09-07-2009, 12:08 AM
Hamas came back and was posting relatively sanely and with some legitimate insight. Then Milkman loses his mind over absolutely nothing, the rest of the 'Gang' chime in and it becomes an idiot's paradise all over again.

That's a shame, because Hamas was actually worth talking to for a while.


dude

1 who the fuck are you
2 hamas has more insight then you could ever hope for

3 if you don't want to deal with hamas theres an ignore function

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-07-2009, 12:08 AM
Ain't it cool?

http://www.popstarsplus.com/images/JohnTravoltaPicture.jpg

*strikes GC in the throat with a Mag Lite*

Hush...HUSH!!

Raised On Riots
09-07-2009, 12:09 AM
Hamas came back and was posting relatively sanely and with some legitimate insight. Then Milkman loses his mind over absolutely nothing, the rest of the 'Gang' chime in and it becomes an idiot's paradise all over again.

That's a shame, because Hamas was actually worth talking to for a while.


http://www.bobmarley.to/Sad_Puppy.jpg

Mecca
09-07-2009, 12:09 AM
Fortunately games aren't played on paper.

Or unfortunately, sometimes.

The Chiefs have been on the wrong side of that "team overcomes horrible matchup" storyline a few times over the years.

I understand that and everything, I could even somewhat see picking the Eagles since their team is a bit in flux, their OL looks shoddy, they have midget WR's and Maclin will take awhile to catch on. Westbrook and McNabb are both getting old and injury prone...their LB's and safeties have problems..

The only thing with the Eagles I find to be concerning is their blitz scheme killing the Chiefs, DeSean Jackson in general and Brent Celek looks like a good player. If Westbrook is on the field that'll be an issue.

The Cowboys on the other hand I think are a worse matchup..huge OL, 2 TE's Witten is one of the best and Bennett is an athletic freak who would start on most teams and is a future all pro. A hammer bulldozing back and a homerun hitter back all mixed with a top flight WR to try to hit big plays with.

That doesn't even factor in having the NFL's leading sacker and possible D player of the year.

I think that is a worse matchup.

J Diddy
09-07-2009, 12:10 AM
Playmakers and true game changers on D are guys like DeMarcus Ware, Mario Williams, Joey Porter, Shaun Rogers, Terrell Suggs, Haloti Ngata, Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, Nnamdi Asomugha, Champ Bailey, Dwight Freeney, Vince Wilfork, Casey Hampton, James Harrison, etc.

On offense you're talking about guys who are in the top 7-8 in their skill positions, with the exception of TE, where it's 3-5.

The Chiefs don't have anyone outside of Dwayne Bowe that would qualify as a true playmaker, and he can be taken out of a game far more easily than a RB.

And Dorsey and Jackson may well be down the line, but they won't be this year. Flowers can be a solid, Pro Bowl level corner, but without a pass rush, it's gonna be hard for him to make plays. Page...well, no.

page has been a game changer against oakland. I like our corners I think they can be game changers, anything else I'd agree with you on.

Count Zarth
09-07-2009, 12:10 AM
Page...well, no.

Boooooooooooo

Page already won two Raiders games!

PLAYMAKER! :cuss:

Raised On Riots
09-07-2009, 12:11 AM
But...but...DJ! ROFL

NOT.

keg in kc
09-07-2009, 12:11 AM
We define it differently.

Page has already been a playmaker. He's directly responsible for several wins in his tenure here. He just has a knack for that sometimes.

What it sounds like you're talking about is a superstar player, and the chiefs haven't had one since Derrick Thomas. Tony Gonzalez wasn't really one. But he was a playmaker, in his own tight end-y way. And so I think are the guys I named. They are all capable of making plays that change the game. (In a positive way). (And in a negative way).

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-07-2009, 12:12 AM
Boooooooooooo

Page already won two Raiders games!

PLAYMAKER! :cuss:

When Aaron Brooks and JaFatass are lobbing wiffleballs out to centerfield, it's pretty hard not to make a play.

Count Zarth
09-07-2009, 12:12 AM
I'm sure that will be of great consolation when Haloti Ngata rips off Niswanger's tits, severs Cassel's dick, and shoves it up his ass.

Never leave us again. :deevee:

keg in kc
09-07-2009, 12:12 AM
I understand that and everything, I could even somewhat see picking the Eagles since their team is a bit in flux, their OL looks shoddy, they have midget WR's and Maclin will take awhile to catch on. Westbrook and McNabb are both getting old and injury prone...their LB's and safeties have problems..

The only thing with the Eagles I find to be concerning is their blitz scheme killing the Chiefs, DeSean Jackson in general and Brent Celek looks like a good player. If Westbrook is on the field that'll be an issue.

The Cowboys on the other hand I think are a worse matchup..huge OL, 2 TE's Witten is one of the best and Bennett is an athletic freak who would start on most teams and is a future all pro. A hammer bulldozing back and a homerun hitter back all mixed with a top flight WR to try to hit big plays with.

That doesn't even factor in having the NFL's leading sacker and possible D player of the year.

I think that is a worse matchup.Which part of "do I think they're winnable games or good matchups? No" are you not getting....

It's a gut feeling kind of thing. I get those occasionally. Sometimes they even happen.

It makes the games more interesting, thinking they might have a remote chance at actually overcoming adversity.

Simply Red
09-07-2009, 12:13 AM
Do we really have to talk about the Chiefs?

Mecca
09-07-2009, 12:14 AM
My gut feeling is I hope DeMarcus Ware doesn't set the sack record in Arrowhead.

keg in kc
09-07-2009, 12:15 AM
Do we really have to talk about the Chiefs?I need to take a shower and go to bed. I's 1:15 fucking am. And oh shit I didn't do my laundry. God fucking damnit.