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Deberg_1990
09-09-2009, 08:10 AM
Guess the old Bannister Mall site is out?



http://www.kansascity.com/842/story/1433346.html



The Kansas Speedway area has emerged as the new choice for a long-sought Wizards soccer stadium in a sweeping proposal that would include at least 4,000 new Cerner Corp. jobs.

The developer working for OnGoal LLC, the owner of the Kansas City Wizards, has prepared a stadium plan for a site owned by Nebraska Furniture Mart. The developer is asking state and county officials to use revenues from the existing sales tax revenue bonds, also known as STAR bonds, issued for the Village West retail district to help finance the project.

To sweeten its proposal, OnGoal, whose ownership group includes Neal Patterson and Cliff Illig, co-founders of Cerner, has included a 600,000-square-foot office project that Wyandotte County officials confirmed would house new Cerner employees.

An amateur sports complex with at least a dozen athletic fields also is part of the plan, bringing the total estimated investment to $400 million.

Officials at Cerner, a fast-growing medical software company based in North Kansas City, declined to comment directly on the proposal but did release a statement Tuesday.

“As Cerner continues to grow, we will consider, as we have in the past, office locations that can accommodate several thousand associates,” said Marc Naughton, chief financial officer. “A successful Cerner will need substantially more office space to grow in the next decade.”

Should the stadium project move to Village West, it would derail the current plan to redevelop the former Bannister Mall in south Kansas City. City officials have been working for more than two years with developer Lane4 Properties Group and OnGoal to build a mixed-use project that would be anchored by a new Wizards stadium.

The development team cautioned that no final agreement has been reached with Kansas officials but added they were far along the road exploring the Village West alternative. Populous, formerly HOK Sport, has developed drawings for the 18,500-seat stadium, and preliminary soil exploration has been done on the 11-acre site.

“We’re spending money out there today in anticipation this has real probability,” said Robb Heineman, president of OnGoal.

Although Wyandotte County would be a big winner under the new proposal by attracting thousands of new jobs and keeping a major professional sports team — the Wizards are playing temporarily at CommunityAmerica Ballpark in Village West — the potential shift would be a substantial blow to Kansas City.

The soccer stadium was to be the cornerstone of a $1 billion plan to redevelop the former Bannister Mall property. Besides the proposed Wizards stadium, the project included 609,000 square feet of retail, a 250-room hotel, office space and a 12-field amateur soccer complex.

The Kansas City Council approved a redevelopment plan in December 2007 that included $273.3 million in city and state tax incentives for the project, to be repaid by the new tax revenues generated by the retail portion.

But within a few months after the city approved the plan, the financial markets collapsed, prompting the developer to seek additional city “enhancements” to move forward with at least the stadium and amateur soccer complex. The city, however, was unwilling to pledge its credit to back the bond.

Mayor Mark Funkhouser said the city had been working to do whatever it could to keep the development, but that STAR bonds presented a formidable competition.

“We have put together a very aggressive package,” the mayor said. “I would very much like to keep the development here, but not at any price.”

Heineman said the most recent proposal by the city would not allow the team to attain its target of being in a new stadium by 2011.

The Village West location came up earlier this year when the developer was approached by Nebraska Furniture Mart.

“It’s really about leveraging an existing destination and using the retail that’s already there to bring in an added attraction,” said Jeff Lind, store director. “For us, it adds a lot of potential visitors and helps with the current economic environment.”

Village West, which includes Nebraska Furniture Mart, Cabela’s and the Legends, is generating about $40 million in annual sales tax revenue, according to county officials. At this rate, it’s expected to repay the original STAR bond in late 2013 or early 2014, six years ahead of schedule.

The development plan being pitched calls for using the STAR bond revenues through 2020, as originally scheduled, to help finance the stadium and office project.

“This project can be finished with that same revenue stream without extending the maturity date,” said Owen Buckley of Lane4.

The STAR bond program diverts 100 percent of the new state and local sales taxes generated by a project to repay eligible development costs. When Kansas Speedway was built, more than 400 acres were set aside for additional development to be assisted by the program.

In addition to the 4,000 direct new jobs paying an average salary of $54,000, the developer is projecting that 1,900 spin-off jobs would be created by the office campus and 2,400 more jobs to be created by the soccer stadium and amateur sports complex. This would bring the total to more than 8,300.

The estimated annual economic benefit would be more than $500 million, and the new stadium and soccer fields alone would attract 2.5 million visitors annually, according to the developer.

“We’re very excited about the prospect of thousands of new jobs,” said Dennis Hays, Wyandotte County administrator. “The proposed office complex is an integral part of the overall plan for Village West, to bring daytime traffic.”

Hays said county officials supported the STAR bond proposal being proposed by the developer.

“The economic benefit of 8,000 new jobs in our community far outweighs any investment of sales taxes,” he said. “We’ve had discussions with state officials and will continue to work with them on this.”

Hays said the county had been told the jobs would be new positions expected to be created by Cerner, not existing jobs from other parts of the metropolitan area. Besides North Kansas City, Cerner has a growing presence in the former Marion labs complex. This would mark the firm’s first expansion into Kansas.

Mayor Joe Reardon said the additional development opportunity would be a boon to employment opportunities in Kansas City, Kan.

“The job creation is phenomenal and would be transformative to a community like mine,” he said.

Kansas City Council member John Sharp, whose district includes Bannister Mall, said the new plan would be devastating for his area. Besides redeveloping the Bannister property, city officials saw the Wizards stadium and adjoining development as a chance to enhance the surrounding neighborhood.

“The city and state of Missouri have offered these developers every economic incentive we have to offer,” Sharp said.

“I don’t know what else we could do, other than offer to back all their construction costs. … I don’t know if we could do that without severely jeopardizing the city credit rating.”

Buckley said his group was committed to redeveloping the mall site and had invested $30 million so far and owned 200 acres.

He said the property still will be ideal for a future retail project because of its visibility from Interstate 435 and ample amount of developable land.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A $400 million proposal
1. An 18,500-seat stadium for the Kansas City Wizards on vacant property owned by Nebraska Furniture Mart

2. A 600,000-square-foot office campus that would accommodate 4,000 new jobs expected to be created by Cerner Corp.

3. An amateur sports complex with more than a dozen soccer fields.

BigRedChief
09-09-2009, 08:16 AM
I thought the bannister mall site was a done deal?

jiveturkey
09-09-2009, 08:48 AM
I did too. The mall has been completely torn down for at least a couple of months now.

I always wondered why they thought new retail would do any better than all of the empty retail that is out there now.

Frazod
09-09-2009, 09:06 AM
Heh. Soccer and NASCAR. Go Kansas!

John_Wayne
09-09-2009, 09:17 AM
NASCAR, soccer, baseball, shopping, hunting supplies, a water park and BBQ........

They really need to keep slots and gambling out of there or the whole thing will go to hell in within 15 years. Keep it pure. Keep the family fun. Keep the crooked money and crime away from that area. It's the best thing that's happened to the KC metro in 20 or 30 years. Don't screw it up with gambling!

jiveturkey
09-09-2009, 09:18 AM
NASCAR, soccer, baseball, shopping, hunting supplies, a water park and BBQ........

They really need to keep slots and gambling out of there or the whole thing will go to hell in within 15 years. Keep it pure. Keep the family fun. Keep the crooked money and crime away from that area. It's the best thing that's happened to the KC metro in 20 or 30 years. Don't screw it up with gambling!Have you been to a local casino? If the mob is run by 80 year old women who take a shuttle from their retirement home then we're in deep do do.

WoodDraw
09-09-2009, 09:23 AM
I thought the bannister mall site was a done deal?

I think the banking/credit crisis hit it hard. Bonds wouldn't sell, etc.

Kansas will Super TIF the shit out of this, something that KC, MO won't do.

I think it's a horrible location for them, but ah well.

Baconeater
09-09-2009, 09:29 AM
I did too. The mall has been completely torn down for at least a couple of months now.

I always wondered why they thought new retail would do any better than all of the empty retail that is out there now.
Or the retail that was on the same site previously...

wild1
09-09-2009, 09:42 AM
Maybe a stadium would work in that area, but retail isn't going to work because there's no money in the area to support it. and people probably aren't going to come from other suburbs to shop there if the neighborhood is not a place they want to be after dark.

Deberg_1990
09-09-2009, 09:51 AM
Maybe a stadium would work in that area, but retail isn't going to work because there's no money in the area to support it. and people probably aren't going to come from other suburbs to shop there if the neighborhood is not a place they want to be after dark.

Sadly, this is most likely true.

Demonpenz
09-09-2009, 09:53 AM
Maybe a stadium would work in that area, but retail isn't going to work because there's no money in the area to support it. and people probably aren't going to come from other suburbs to shop there if the neighborhood is not a place they want to be after dark.

the irony of putting it in the dotte.

ArrowheadHawk
09-09-2009, 10:00 AM
Heh. Soccer and NASCAR. Go Kansas!

Damn man with all your hate for Kansas why don't you move to St. Louis and get as far away from it as possible yet still be in Missery. You are a tool.

Frazod
09-09-2009, 10:29 AM
Damn man with all your hate for Kansas why don't you move to St. Louis and get as far away from it as possible yet still be in Missery. You are a tool.

Somebody who isn't a fucking idiot might notice that "Naperville, IL" is written next to the word "Location" under my avatar.

And by the way, "IL" means "Illinois," not what you claim to be when you call off work at McDonalds.

jiveturkey
09-09-2009, 10:33 AM
I think the banking/credit crisis hit it hard. Bonds wouldn't sell, etc.

Kansas will Super TIF the shit out of this, something that KC, MO won't do.

I think it's a horrible location for them, but ah well.They've apparently done well playing in the T- stadium.

WoodDraw
09-09-2009, 10:46 AM
They've apparently done well playing in the T- stadium.

They've done okay. It's a terrible place to watch a soccer game, and the stadium only holds ~10,000. But that's better than playing in the massive Arrowhead for them.

Just not a place where I'd put a soccer stadium. MLS is trying to move away from the soccer mom, suburban demographic. Legends just screams minor league to me. But ah well, yay for STAR bonds.

Demonpenz
09-09-2009, 10:50 AM
MLS will always have that demographic as long as they don't have the best players in the world. Even then...who knows.

WoodDraw
09-09-2009, 12:24 PM
MLS will always have that demographic as long as they don't have the best players in the world. Even then...who knows.

Eh, not really. Seattle draws 30,000+ of intense crowds. Toronto has great sold out crowds. DC has a good base, although they've struggled recently. Portland, Vancouver, and Philly are all coming in and have strong supporters groups and will have good crowds.

The problem has more to do with old MLS vs. new MLS. A lot of teams killed off the initial support they had with the slow growth and poor decisions that alienated the true soccer supporters in the early days. That's a crappy explanation, but I could write a book on the problems with MLS.

But hey, they continue to improve...

Demonpenz
09-09-2009, 01:22 PM
if you write problems with the mls i will listen. go ahead.

WoodDraw
09-09-2009, 02:58 PM
if you write problems with the mls i will listen. go ahead.

Hm, where to start. MLS has done well. Most of the problems come from trying to start a professional sports league in America.

The previous soccer league, NASL, crashed from a number of things, but uncontrolled spending and over expansion (to bring desperate owners expansion fees) played huge parts. So when FIFA ordered the USSF to start a first division soccer league as a condition of getting the '94 World Cup, those were the main mistakes they focused on not repeating.

So MLS opened in a single entity structure with a strict salary cap, no CBA, no free agency, etc. AEG, Hunt, and Kraft all owned multiple teams. The league wasn't profitable and the single entity structure meant all owners shared in the losses, regardless of their market, so those three bankrolled the league through the bad times. Obviously, you're not going to spend like crazy when your writing the checks for multiple teams.

Mistakes not learned from the NASL? They tried to Americanize the sport with shootouts to avoid ties, a countdown clock, and some other rules changes that pissed off a lot of regular soccer fans. They marketed heavily (by MLS standards) to the soccer mom and kids crowd, hoping they eventually would grow into older soccer fans.

Not exactly the way to build support for new sports teams. So a lot of the teams just never found way into the local sports culture, aside from maybe LA and DC. A lot of owners neglected the teams, either not knowing or not caring how to run and market a professional soccer club. They were playing mainly in giant football stadiums, an awful place for 15-20,000 to watch a soccer game. The games and teams felt minor league.

So I think thats the main thing that still hurts existing teams today. Some teams survived well (LA, DC) because of competent, soccer first ownership. But for a place like KC, with the Hunts never marketing the team, the team slid into obscurity, outside of the die hard fans and the "bring your youth team out!" people.

So even with the slow growth of MLS now, existing franchises have struggled to become relevant again in markets they've already abused and tossed around. Starting with Toronto's expansion in 2007 and Seattle's this year, the expansion teams have done amazing. Both have sold out every single game so far, and both have traditional soccer supporters. YouTube some clips of their games - they're fun to watch.

Portland, Vancouver, and Philly all look set to replicate that success with solid stadium situations, owners, and supporting groups. Most expect Montreal to be after that, also a good situation.

So how do you translate that success to the existing clubs?

1) Having those successful clubs will help a lot by itself. You need teams in major markets, drawing large crowds, with the city actually caring. That means having both fans and the media involved. Seattle has gone crazy over the Sounders, with 30,000+ sell outs every game, a 5,000 season ticket waiting list, and great coverage from their media. That makes other people want to get involved.

If the new teams can do that, I hope that will rub off on the existing cities. The fans will see the excitement and will start to show up. The national media will care more. It'll slowly spread.

2) You've got to spend more money. The salary cap was needed to keep the league solvent, but now that almost every team has it's own owner (Hunt and AEG both own two still), it's time to increase it. Right now it at something like $2.3 million, which is laughable. Even average Americans are going to small European countries because they can make more money.

Plus it impacts the onfield play. You end up with a couple talented players that you can afford, surrounded by incredibly average at best players (by MLS standards, no less). That makes incredibly frustrating, if not straight boring, soccer.

3) Along with that, each team needs to work harder to create there own identity. Part of the problems introduced with the single entity structure and owners operating multiple teams was that teams seemed to be a random collection of players allocated by the high ups at MLS. No city pride, no trying to put together a quality teams. Bit of an exaggeration, but...

Again, Seattle and Toronto have both done better jobs of this. Making sure the team gets integrated in the community. Seattle brought in Freddie Ljungberg, a big European player, plus Kasey Keller, an older US national team player with ties to the region.

But more than just players, become part of the community. Act like a major league team, not some minor league team playing pick up ball. And to me that's the problem with the Legends location. It doesn't integrate with the rest of Kansas City, especially the sports scene.

4) All the teams need to get into acceptable stadium situations.

So I hope that made some sense. MLS is growing quickly now. Expansion fees are up to around $40 million and potential owners actually want to get involved, a big step up from the early days. The current CBA (the players finally got one a few years back) expires after this season, so there's some hope that the players will win some type of progress from the owners. Plus, some of the teams are desperate to spend more money and are getting sick of supporting the bottom feeder owners. Plus WC years are always huge for soccer in the US.

We'll see how it turns out. It's a fun, if slightly maddening, league to follow. It could take off within the next 5-10 years, or crash. Or in between. :)

WilliamTheIrish
09-09-2009, 03:46 PM
This biggest step in all of this is bringing Cerner across the state line. I'll bet that in 5 years the entire Cerner corporation is Kansas based. That's a shiot-ton of money and jobs.

Soon the portability of electronic medical records will be the norm and Cerner has a pretty good grasp on the industry.

ArrowheadHawk
09-09-2009, 03:49 PM
Somebody who isn't a fucking idiot might notice that "Naperville, IL" is written next to the word "Location" under my avatar.

And by the way, "IL" means "Illinois," not what you claim to be when you call off work at McDonalds.

You are the king of the internet I bow down to thee.
Posted via Mobile Device

Frazod
09-09-2009, 03:50 PM
You are the king of the internet I bow down to thee.
Posted via Mobile Device

Wonderful. You should enjoy a tall frosty glass of antifreeze as well.

Demonpenz
09-09-2009, 03:51 PM
I like the countdown clock better than a clock that is going up.

WoodDraw
09-09-2009, 04:00 PM
I like the countdown clock better than a clock that is going up.

It doesn't work for soccer. The game never stops other than for halftime, so the game clock needs to be controlled by the ref. As it was, you could be in the middle of your last offensive attempt and have the clock run out. It was idiotic.

ArrowheadHawk
09-09-2009, 04:12 PM
Wonderful. You should enjoy a tall frosty glass of antifreeze as well.
Sure would beat the hell out of reading your sorry ass posts.
Posted via Mobile Device

ChiefsNWildcats
09-09-2009, 04:13 PM
This biggest step in all of this is bringing Cerner across the state line. I'll bet that in 5 years the entire Cerner corporation is Kansas based. That's a shiot-ton of money and jobs.

Soon the portability of electronic medical records will be the norm and Cerner has a pretty good grasp on the industry.

I sure hope so. The Mrs. has to drive from Basehor down to the Cerner complex just South of Bannister Mall each day. Not a fun drive. Basehor to the Speedway would be friggin great!

Demonpenz
09-09-2009, 04:14 PM
It doesn't work for soccer. The game never stops other than for halftime, so the game clock needs to be controlled by the ref. As it was, you could be in the middle of your last offensive attempt and have the clock run out. It was idiotic.

that happens in all other sports, but they should cater to the fans who watch not pander for casual fans.

Frazod
09-09-2009, 04:28 PM
Sure would beat the hell out of reading your sorry ass posts.
Posted via Mobile Device

Nobody forces you to read them, Nancy. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

Jerm
09-09-2009, 04:30 PM
MLS will continue to languish behind until they go to one table, introduce relegation, and scrap the playoff system.

Just no drama or excitement.
Posted via Mobile Device

PunkinDrublic
09-09-2009, 04:34 PM
I can't believe the armpit of KC is getting the Wizards stadium. I mean nascar sure because it's something the white trash scum of KCK can identify with but soccer?

GoHuge
09-09-2009, 04:41 PM
Just another example of Kansas City, MO finding a way to eventually ****up an opportunity for progress. I never thought that thing would fly over there anyway. When I drive through that area it is during the daytime or it is very quickly. If your looking for a level one trauma center Research is the place to go. Lots of experience in dealing with human catastrophe.

Very proud to be on the other side of state line. I think alot of local government is corrupt on some level, but Village West and Wyandotte County have flat gotten shit done. KCMO politicians are so concerned about winning their next election they're afraid to do what they're put into office to do. They let the citizens they represent down all the time.

KANSAS.......F**K YEAH!!

jiveturkey
09-09-2009, 05:08 PM
Things aren't so great for KCK right now either. All of these property tax deals have left them broke. They still aren't attracting enough home builders/buyers so they're relying on a weak ass existing tax base. It's good that they've got the balls to look ahead and bring in big fancy projects but at some point they're going to have to pay the piper.

WilliamTheIrish
09-09-2009, 05:12 PM
I can't believe the armpit of KC is getting the Wizards stadium. I mean nascar sure because it's something the white trash scum of KCK can identify with but soccer?

That part of the Dotte is no armpit. It's a thriving mofo. And it will get really healthy if Cerner drops 400 jobs and building there. And then follows it with a HQ.

kstater
09-09-2009, 05:14 PM
Maybe a stadium would work in that area, but retail isn't going to work because there's no money in the area to support it. and people probably aren't going to come from other suburbs to shop there if the neighborhood is not a place they want to be after dark.

I thought retail is already working out there?

PunkinDrublic
09-09-2009, 05:18 PM
That part of the Dotte is no armpit. It's a thriving mofo. And it will get really healthy if Cerner drops 400 jobs and building there. And then follows it with a HQ.

It's just so hard for me to believe I haven't been back to KC in 9 years. Coming up for the weekend for the game against the faiders. I grew up in Overland Park and there was never any reason ever to go up to KCK. The few times I was there it was always overrun by Joe Dirt looking white trash loosers.

kstater
09-09-2009, 05:19 PM
It's just so hard for me to believe I haven't been back to KC in 9 years. Coming up for the weekend for the game against the faiders. I grew up in Overland Park and there was never any reason ever to go up to KCK. The few times I was there it was always overrun by Joe Dirt looking white trash loosers.

9 years? You won't recognize OP.

Bearcat2005
09-09-2009, 05:23 PM
Maybe a stadium would work in that area, but retail isn't going to work because there's no money in the area to support it. and people probably aren't going to come from other suburbs to shop there if the neighborhood is not a place they want to be after dark.

It is sad but true, I grew up in that area in the 90's and early 2000's and people go out to LS, Raytown or Indep. to shop. If people are not comfortable in regards to personal safety they wont shop there. Even if SKC gets this, I wonder how lasting the positive economic impact will be. I just dont see the demand for establish continual growth.

PunkinDrublic
09-09-2009, 05:23 PM
9 years? You won't recognize OP.

I know it's been too long. I'm going to spend a whole day Saturday driving around my old haunts. KC holds so much sentimental value for me. I guess that's why I'm always checking out CP it's also a way for me to keep up with where I grew up.

Spicy McHaggis
09-09-2009, 05:25 PM
MLS will continue to languish behind until they go to one table, introduce relegation, and scrap the playoff system.

Just no drama or excitement.
Posted via Mobile Device

It's a nice thought, but I have a feeling none of the owners (especially the new ones) are even thinking about letting the franchise they spent a good chunk of change on drop down to a 2nd division. Some teams probably couldn't survive being relegated.

They do need to expand the cap number. No one on the team should be pulling 12 k. No one can if the MLS wants to retain a decent level of talent.

WilliamTheIrish
09-09-2009, 05:33 PM
9 years? You won't recognize OP.

OP is also different. But it's JoCo. The Speedway and Legends is in the "new" Dotte.

kstater
09-09-2009, 05:38 PM
OP is also different. But it's JoCo. The Speedway and Legends is in the "new" Dotte.


Really? I didn't know. :p

Or, I was referring to him growing up in OP and not being back in 9 years. I'm up that way a half dozen times a year or so.

WilliamTheIrish
09-09-2009, 05:42 PM
Really? I didn't know. :p

Or, I was referring to him growing up in OP and not being back in 9 years. I'm up that way a half dozen times a year or so.

Oh. Honestly, I thought you might have been confused on the county. Sorry.

WoodDraw
09-09-2009, 05:47 PM
It's a nice thought, but I have a feeling none of the owners (especially the new ones) are even thinking about letting the franchise they spent a good chunk of change on drop down to a 2nd division. Some teams probably couldn't survive being relegated.


Putting aside the minor issue of having no 2nd division, guess who would get relegated this year? New York. Last year, LA would have been the 2nd team relegated.

Giving up your two biggest markets? Uhm, no.

But you're right, for pro/rel to happen, the owners would have to be compensated. I'd love to see it, but that's decades in the future. Let's get MLS profitable first, and then work on building a true second division. After that, we'll talk.