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Taco John
09-17-2009, 01:45 PM
From The Hill...

Ron Paul and Sarah Palin: The Ross Perot moment
By Bernie Quigley - 09/17/09 01:35 PM ET

The most startling statistic to come out this month is the latest Washington Post/ABC poll that shows 43 percent of Americans now consider themselves to be independents.

Much of the celebrity thrill seems to be gone, as Wall Street Journal commentator Fouad Ajami said it would, with the hip new president who gives such charming speeches. Could be that hip is not what you want in a president when the only difference between Cheney’s war in Iraq and Obama’s war in Afghanistan and Bush’s missile defense program and Obama’s is the better cut of the new commander in chief’s suit. On the two main fronts, the economy and the war, majorities oppose, and he has even lost 10 percent of the young'uns since July. Twenty-two-year-olds consider themselves to be immortal. They don’t want health insurance.



Change is about, without question, but Obama himself may only be the harbinger, not the change. We could be approaching not a Kennedy or a Roosevelt or a Lincoln moment, but a Ross Perot moment.

Ross Perot came out of nowhere back in the early 1990s and with a kooky Texas freshness, a crateful of his own cash and a bunch of charts, he took almost 20 percent of the vote in 1992. At one point in the summer he commanded a lead with 39 percent. What the Perot moment indicated was that World War II or Elvis or the Beach Boys or something had freed Americans from their old constraints. But Ronald Reagan really turned the sea. Prior to Reagan you could with accuracy count on good Boston Irish going to the Catholic Church and voting Democrat every time. You could count on New York Jews and Southern Baptists to do the same. But when Reagan took 49 states in 1984, it was all over with that. Americans were free. With 43 percent claiming to be independent today, they apparently still are free.

This week Arianna Huffington, the liberal doyenne, and Ron Paul both appeared on "Morning Joe." They seemed to like each other and to be in increasing agreement on economic issues. But what was striking was the new legitimacy that Rep. Paul (Texas) has gained since Obama’s bailouts have taken hold. Given the high disapproval ratings on both the economy and the war, it could be said today that the country is moving to Paul’s positions by osmosis. Paul opposed the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. He opposed the bailouts. He opposed the entire Keynesian perspective that the Obama administration has adopted lock, stock and barrel. Morning Joe — no radical libertarian — pulled out an old script to read in amazement how the housing crisis had played out exactly as Paul said it would back in 2003. Paul advocates Austrian economics, and as he gathers continuing respect, Austrian economics gains a new authenticity as well.

Sarah Palin and Ron Paul bear kinship. Those who like Paul very often also like Palin. She has said she admired Paul’s independent streak and Paul, like Palin, was considered a pariah when America’s support for Obama was in the 70s and all three networks were head over heels for Obamanomics. But as the sweet and authentic Mary Travis of Peter, Paul and Mary unfortunately passed away this week, I was remembering how the charmed old labor songs that the Weavers used to sing took flight when I was a teenager. Bob Dylan was the pariah then; now he’s everywhere — selling Pepsi and women’s underwear on TV during football games, playing bar mitzvahs. You can’t get rid of the guy.

Such an awakening is ahead again, perhaps, as the old ideas inevitably yield to time. But different times yield to different ideas.

There are maybe subtle hints that the networks seem to be catching on. Charles Gibson, the ABC News anchor, who led the major networks in their idolatrous backing of Obama, is retiring this year. He will be replaced by Diane Sawyer. Comment was that they wanted a woman for the job. But there are certainly lots of other women who could do it. Sawyer goes way back, to Nixon, to Kissinger, to the Time of Tall Men. My instinct was they were making a correction, ditching the lightweights and getting their best people up front for what lies just ahead.


http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/economy-a-budget/59257-ron-paul-and-sarah-palin-the-ross-perot-moment

BucEyedPea
09-17-2009, 01:48 PM
Ayup! The NeoCons have left the GOP as a rotting carcass with their unpopular obesession with remaking the ME and central Asia with war.
Not to mention their big spending ways. Both of which have led to the fleecing of America and leaving us with a sick economy.

Reaper16
09-17-2009, 01:50 PM
From The Hill...

Ron Paul and Sarah Palin: The Ross Perot moment
By Bernie Quigley - 09/17/09 01:35 PM ET

The most startling statistic to come out this month is the latest Washington Post/ABC poll that shows 43 percent of Americans now consider themselves to be independents.

Much of the celebrity thrill seems to be gone, as Wall Street Journal commentator Fouad Ajami said it would, with the hip new president who gives such charming speeches. Could be that hip is not what you want in a president when the only difference between Cheney’s war in Iraq and Obama’s war in Afghanistan and Bush’s missile defense program and Obama’s is the better cut of the new commander in chief’s suit. On the two main fronts, the economy and the war, majorities oppose, and he has even lost 10 percent of the young'uns since July. Twenty-two-year-olds consider themselves to be immortal. They don’t want health insurance.



Change is about, without question, but Obama himself may only be the harbinger, not the change. We could be approaching not a Kennedy or a Roosevelt or a Lincoln moment, but a Ross Perot moment.

Ross Perot came out of nowhere back in the early 1990s and with a kooky Texas freshness, a crateful of his own cash and a bunch of charts, he took almost 20 percent of the vote in 1992. At one point in the summer he commanded a lead with 39 percent. What the Perot moment indicated was that World War II or Elvis or the Beach Boys or something had freed Americans from their old constraints. But Ronald Reagan really turned the sea. Prior to Reagan you could with accuracy count on good Boston Irish going to the Catholic Church and voting Democrat every time. You could count on New York Jews and Southern Baptists to do the same. But when Reagan took 49 states in 1984, it was all over with that. Americans were free. With 43 percent claiming to be independent today, they apparently still are free.

This week Arianna Huffington, the liberal doyenne, and Ron Paul both appeared on "Morning Joe." They seemed to like each other and to be in increasing agreement on economic issues. But what was striking was the new legitimacy that Rep. Paul (Texas) has gained since Obama’s bailouts have taken hold. Given the high disapproval ratings on both the economy and the war, it could be said today that the country is moving to Paul’s positions by osmosis. Paul opposed the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. He opposed the bailouts. He opposed the entire Keynesian perspective that the Obama administration has adopted lock, stock and barrel. Morning Joe — no radical libertarian — pulled out an old script to read in amazement how the housing crisis had played out exactly as Paul said it would back in 2003. Paul advocates Austrian economics, and as he gathers continuing respect, Austrian economics gains a new authenticity as well.

Sarah Palin and Ron Paul bear kinship. Those who like Paul very often also like Palin. She has said she admired Paul’s independent streak and Paul, like Palin, was considered a pariah when America’s support for Obama was in the 70s and all three networks were head over heels for Obamanomics. But as the sweet and authentic Mary Travis of Peter, Paul and Mary unfortunately passed away this week, I was remembering how the charmed old labor songs that the Weavers used to sing took flight when I was a teenager. Bob Dylan was the pariah then; now he’s everywhere — selling Pepsi and women’s underwear on TV during football games, playing bar mitzvahs. You can’t get rid of the guy.

Such an awakening is ahead again, perhaps, as the old ideas inevitably yield to time. But different times yield to different ideas.

There are maybe subtle hints that the networks seem to be catching on. Charles Gibson, the ABC News anchor, who led the major networks in their idolatrous backing of Obama, is retiring this year. He will be replaced by Diane Sawyer. Comment was that they wanted a woman for the job. But there are certainly lots of other women who could do it. Sawyer goes way back, to Nixon, to Kissinger, to the Time of Tall Men. My instinct was they were making a correction, ditching the lightweights and getting their best people up front for what lies just ahead.


http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/economy-a-budget/59257-ron-paul-and-sarah-palin-the-ross-perot-moment
Is that true? It isn't in my experience.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-17-2009, 01:54 PM
Is that true? It isn't in my experience.

Paul and Palin not really, Paul and Perot ya i could see it.

BucEyedPea
09-17-2009, 01:55 PM
I saw the You Tube with Paul and Arianna on Morning Joe. She actually admited, unlike most from the hard left, that we have is not free-market capitalism...that it was oligarchy. That's exactly right.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-17-2009, 01:55 PM
I saw the You Tube with Paul and Arianna on Morning Joe. She actually admit, unlike most from the hard left, that we have is not free-market capitalism...that it was oligarchy. That's exactly right.

Absolutely.

BucEyedPea
09-17-2009, 01:56 PM
Paul and Palin not really, Paul and Perot ya i could see it.

I can't see Perot and Paul. Only in the sense that he was a third party. Perot was a moron who doesn't even know the Constutition. And he is no economist either. He was just right about Nafta. ( as is Paul)

KILLER_CLOWN
09-17-2009, 01:59 PM
I can't see Perot and Paul. Only in the sense that he was a third party. Perot was a moron who doesn't even know the Constutition. And he is no economist either. He was just right about Nafta. ( as is Paul)

I voted for Perot, his message of National Sovereignty and anti-nafta/anti-globalists positions were enough to persuade me that he was by far the best candidate.

Taco John
09-17-2009, 02:00 PM
Is that true? It isn't in my experience.


She's a mixed bag for Paulies. Prior to her nomination, she was whispered about in Paul circles as a libertarian. But when she sniffed power, she ran towards the McCain branch of Republicanism with reckless abandon. Plus when she showed her complete lack of foriegn policy acumen but was still as hawkish as can be, she showed that she is dangerous.

patteeu
09-17-2009, 02:00 PM
Ayup! The NeoCons have left the GOP as a rotting carcass with their unpopular obessession with remaking the ME and central Asia with war.
Not to mention their big spending ways. Both of which have led to the fleecing of America and leaving us with a sick economy.

:bong:

Taco John
09-17-2009, 02:03 PM
She's right pat. Even if you two disagree on what a neocon is, she's right. It has been a pretty big player in the breakup of the republican coalition.

BucEyedPea
09-17-2009, 02:04 PM
She's a mixed bag for Paulies. Prior to her nomination, she was whispered about in Paul circles as a libertarian. But when she sniffed power, she ran towards the McCain branch of Republicanism with reckless abandon. Plus when she showed her complete lack of foriegn policy acumen but was still as hawkish as can be, she showed that she is dangerous.

Essentially s good woman with some good limited govt instincts being used and made into a NeoCon-on-training-wheels.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-17-2009, 02:14 PM
Essentially s good woman with some good limited govt instincts being used and made into a NeoCon-on-training-wheels.

ROFL

Inspector
09-17-2009, 02:18 PM
Palin is actually much better looking than Ron Paul.

Much.

BucEyedPea
09-17-2009, 02:20 PM
Palin is actually much better looking than Ron Paul.

Much.

So is Obama. :)

KILLER_CLOWN
09-17-2009, 02:27 PM
Palin is actually much better looking than Ron Paul.

Much.

So is janeane garofalo but you couldn't pay me enough to be around her.

Calcountry
09-17-2009, 02:40 PM
Ayup! The NeoCons have left the GOP as a rotting carcass with their unpopular obesession with remaking the ME and central Asia with war.
Not to mention their big spending ways. Both of which have led to the fleecing of America and leaving us with a sick economy.Why does the ME have an obsesion with remaking the rest of the world in their religion?

FishingRod
09-17-2009, 02:41 PM
I am an ex Republican. I am economically conservative and socially fairly liberal. So I joined the Libertarian party. Sadly McCain and Feingold's bill solidified the two Party Monopoly the Republicans and Democrats have. I left the Republican party when I perceived them to be trying to over legislate morality for a Christian point of view and their abandonment of their fight against big government. The Democrats I just see as trying to Europeanize the country and create a generation of dependents that will naturally vote for bigger and bigger government to protect their handouts. I do think a filthy Rich person could possible jumpstart a 3rd party with the basic concept of individual freedom and individual responsibility, much smaller government with corresponding lower taxes and a scaled back military that doesn't spend time money and lives being the worlds policeman. It would be difficult but I really do think there are plenty of Democrats and Republicans alike that are dissatisfied with their party but just see the other party as even worse.

BucEyedPea
09-17-2009, 02:42 PM
Why does the ME have an obsesion with remaking the rest of the world in their religion?

I smell a hijack. I don't buy it. It's just part of the rhetoric to gin up war. But that's for another thread and has been debated here with me before. You can check out my archive using the search.
Ya' know I have nothing against you RR guys when it comes to many issues, but I digress on this issue. I think you lose your rationality.

BucEyedPea
09-17-2009, 02:45 PM
Fishing Rod I read the SC has heard arguments on McCain/Feingold.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Supreme+Court+Hears+Challenge+to+Key+McCain-Feingold+Provision-a0163776196

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202433212282&Its_predictable_Supreme_Court_gunning__for_McCainFeingold

Chocolate Hog
09-17-2009, 02:59 PM
We'll need to be friends with Sarah Palin and the media if we want to win some states in 2012.

Chief Faithful
09-17-2009, 03:04 PM
Ayup! The NeoCons have left the GOP as a rotting carcass with their unpopular obesession with remaking the ME and central Asia with war.
Not to mention their big spending ways. Both of which have led to the fleecing of America and leaving us with a sick economy.

Midway through Bush I had enough and with McCain it was obvious the party needed to tank and start over. Libertarian was the only party left that I could find common ground.

Chocolate Hog
09-17-2009, 03:06 PM
Welcome ChiefFaithful. After the primary when the Ron Paul people were treated like shit I was going to switch to the Liberterian party but to be honest they aren't very organized and when they elected Bob Barr I said no thanks.

Calcountry
09-17-2009, 03:06 PM
She's a mixed bag for Paulies. Prior to her nomination, she was whispered about in Paul circles as a libertarian. But when she sniffed power, she ran towards the McCain branch of Republicanism with reckless abandon. Plus when she showed her complete lack of foriegn policy acumen but was still as hawkish as can be, she showed that she is dangerous.Besides, I can't take someone who speaks in run on sentence and never knows when to close off a point and is for drilling and pro life and America is great oh gee!

Ari Chi3fs
09-17-2009, 03:16 PM
All Hail the Oligarchy!!

BucEyedPea
09-17-2009, 03:31 PM
Welcome ChiefFaithful. After the primary when the Ron Paul people were treated like shit I was going to switch to the Liberterian party but to be honest they aren't very organized and when they elected Bob Barr I said no thanks.

Me too! Barr what a joke of an attempt at hijacking that party. Just a bunch of Rs pretending to be libertarian or even small govt conservatives.

BucEyedPea
09-17-2009, 03:32 PM
Besides, I can't take someone who speaks in run on sentence and never knows when to close off a point and is for drilling and pro life and America is great oh gee!

Too much cutesy winking too! Besides I have a better rack than her.

FishingRod
09-17-2009, 03:58 PM
Me too! Barr what a joke of an attempt at hijacking that party. Just a bunch of Rs pretending to be libertarian or even small govt conservatives.

Michael Badnarik was much better

patteeu
09-17-2009, 04:49 PM
She's right pat. Even if you two disagree on what a neocon is, she's right. It has been a pretty big player in the breakup of the republican coalition.

There are a lot more conservatives upset with the democrat-like spending of the Bush years than there are upset about the GWoT, isolationists like Ron Paul and nutcases like TFG notwithstanding.

Taco John
09-17-2009, 05:02 PM
I don't think that the "isolationist" line is going to be very effective for you long term. When people actually examine the full position, they see that Ron Paul is not an isolationist at all - he just believes that we can accomplish more through trade than we can through federal foriegn aid handouts and/or war.

I do think that you'll maintian your jAZ like grip over the propagandized "isolationist" line. I just don't think it will be effective for you long term.

Chocolate Hog
09-17-2009, 05:06 PM
Too much cutesy winking too! Besides I have a better rack than her.

Pics or you're lying