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Direckshun
09-18-2009, 01:14 PM
Anybody seeing these stunning pictures and videos online today?

After being beaten, murdered, threatened, marginalized, and denied a government that truly cares about them or is in any way representative of them, Iran's massive protests today are an inspiration.

They are gigantic. They are flowing all over Tehran. They are peaceful.

I watch this and I am just convinced that Iranians are my blood brothers.

They are risking so much to gain so much. And they are the best shot that country will ever have at a productive, positive relationship with us and the rest of the world.

I'm coping Sullivan and I'm going green for Iran today, ya'll.

Hokey, I know. But I'm inspired.

Donger
09-18-2009, 01:15 PM
Anybody seeing these stunning pictures and videos online today?

After being beaten, murdered, threatened, marginalized, and denied a government that truly cares about them or is in any way representative of them, Iran's massive protests today are an inspiration.

They are gigantic. They are flowing all over Tehran. They are peaceful.

I watch this and I am just convinced that Iranians are my blood brothers.

They are risking so much to gain so much. And they are the best shot that country will ever have at a productive, positive relationship with us and the rest of the world.

I'm coping Sullivan and I'm going green for Iran today, ya'll.

Hokey, I know. But I'm inspired.

Irish?

Direckshun
09-18-2009, 01:22 PM
Irish?

:D

http://www.imemc.org/cache/imagecache/local/attachments/apr2007/400_0___10000000_0_0_0_0_0_flagiran.jpg

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/.a/6a00d83451c45669e20120a5d68052970c-500wi

jiveturkey
09-18-2009, 01:28 PM
I saw it on the TV it couldn't have been more than 15k protesting. :D

RaiderH8r
09-18-2009, 01:30 PM
Anybody seeing these stunning pictures and videos online today?

After being beaten, murdered, threatened, marginalized, and denied a government that truly cares about them or is in any way representative of them, Iran's massive protests today are an inspiration.

They are gigantic. They are flowing all over Tehran. They are peaceful.

I watch this and I am just convinced that Iranians are my blood brothers.

They are risking so much to gain so much. And they are the best shot that country will ever have at a productive, positive relationship with us and the rest of the world.

I'm coping Sullivan and I'm going green for Iran today, ya'll.

Hokey, I know. But I'm inspired.

Well you've given them far more attention and credit than our Commander in Chief so kudos to you on that one. Barry O, however, will punt this off and ignore it in favor or supporting communist regimes in places like Honduras and Venezuela. But, all that crap aside, good for the Iranians.

wild1
09-18-2009, 01:32 PM
And as more people disappear in the night, Our Leader will sit down with Their Leader for high tea.

Stinger
09-18-2009, 01:33 PM
I saw it on the TV it couldn't have been more than 15k protesting. :D

Crap ....... I knew I was going to be to late with that line. :cuss:

Direckshun
09-18-2009, 01:34 PM
Well you've given them far more attention and credit than our Commander in Chief so kudos to you on that one. Barry O, however, will punt this off and ignore it in favor or supporting communist regimes in places like Honduras and Venezuela. But, all that crap aside, good for the Iranians.

And as more people disappear in the night, Our Leader will sit down with Their Leader for high tea.

You know, this is the complete opposite of an ideological situation.

Iranians are fighting for freedom right now.

Donger
09-18-2009, 01:36 PM
You know, this is the complete opposite of an ideological situation.

Iranians are fighting for freedom right now.

And how are we to help them? Are we going to intrude in Iranian affairs like we did with Ajax?

ChiTown
09-18-2009, 01:36 PM
:D

http://www.imemc.org/cache/imagecache/local/attachments/apr2007/400_0___10000000_0_0_0_0_0_flagiran.jpg

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/.a/6a00d83451c45669e20120a5d68052970c-500wi

Was that dude finger banging a leprechaun?

Direckshun
09-18-2009, 01:39 PM
And how are we to help them? Are we going to intrude in Iranian affairs like we did with Ajax?

How could we help them?

There doesn't seem to be much we can do militarily.

No, let me rephrase that -- there's nothing we can do militarily.

Anything we can do amounts to lip service -- and the leadership in Iran uses American lip service against the protestors.

I'm all ears, though, to any ideas you may have.

RaiderH8r
09-18-2009, 01:39 PM
You know, this is the complete opposite of an ideological situation.

Iranians are fighting for freedom right now.

They were fighting for freedom the last time and not only did Barry O ignore them his apologists were on here equivocating away the issue because Mousavi was no better for America than Ahmadenijad and thus missing the point entirely.

In fact, here's what I wrote then:

Ah yes, let the liberal equivocating begin. That way Obama's failure to act will be validated because the new guy is just as bad as the old guy. The entire premise misses the point that people wearing Levis, Chuck Taylor's, and holding signs written in english are threatening the entire power structure of Iran and while Mousavi is no saint in terms of what the US would like to see in an Iranian president the movement has gone beyond the man and enters into a larger issue of representation and disillusionment with a power structure that has led Iran astray.

Equivocating liberals, just eat that shit up. If they can equivocate away all values then everything devolves into a homogonized grey area where good and evil are a matter of perspective and not fact which affords the PC elite the ultimate authority in deciding who is right and wrong based on nothing more than how they feel at any given moment in time.

In the aftermath of 9-11 Islam was a nation of peace and the US should seek to understand Islam. The terrorists were driven to acts of desperation by failed US foreign policy and ultimately the culpability for their action rested on the failed foreign policy by US President(s) (usually the finger pointing began and ended with Reagan).

Fast forward to today and we have liberals now equivocating the Iranian President and candidate while glossing over the revolutionary groundswell of support for a new ideology and a new way of thinking in Iran all in an effort to validate the Obamessiah's failure to get off the bench and into the game.

This effort is disgusting because it seeks to set aside the people fighting and dying to be heard, those seeking to participate in democracy, seeking a new way and instead attempts to focus the debate on who is the lesser of two evils to lead Iran. F'ing disgusting.

These are the same ****os who have bitched, moaned and complained incessantly and relentlessly since 2000 about the need to "have every vote count" and offered myriad of conspiracy theories on how elections have been stolen in the interim. But when true election fraud occurs, when true patriots seek to have their vote counted, to have their "Hope and Change" stolen away from them all we get from the leftist intelligencia in this country is equivocating and dismissive rhetoric related to people fighting and dying for the rights we take for granted every day.

This is a case study in why liberals make me want to f'ing puke.

Donger
09-18-2009, 01:41 PM
How could we help them?

There doesn't seem to be much we can do militarily.

No, let me rephrase that -- there's nothing we can do militarily.

Anything we can do amounts to lip service -- and the leadership in Iran uses American lip service against the protestors.

I'm all ears, though, to any ideas you may have.

That's why I mentioned Ajax. Covert support of a regime change.

Direckshun
09-18-2009, 01:42 PM
They were fighting for freedom the last time and not only did Barry O ignore them his apologists were on here equivocating away the issue because Mousavi was no better for America than Ahmadenijad and thus missing the point entirely.

In fact, here's what I wrote then:

Ah yes, let the liberal equivocating begin. That way Obama's failure to act will be validated because the new guy is just as bad as the old guy. The entire premise misses the point that people wearing Levis, Chuck Taylor's, and holding signs written in english are threatening the entire power structure of Iran and while Mousavi is no saint in terms of what the US would like to see in an Iranian president the movement has gone beyond the man and enters into a larger issue of representation and disillusionment with a power structure that has led Iran astray.

Equivocating liberals, just eat that shit up. If they can equivocate away all values then everything devolves into a homogonized grey area where good and evil are a matter of perspective and not fact which affords the PC elite the ultimate authority in deciding who is right and wrong based on nothing more than how they feel at any given moment in time.

In the aftermath of 9-11 Islam was a nation of peace and the US should seek to understand Islam. The terrorists were driven to acts of desperation by failed US foreign policy and ultimately the culpability for their action rested on the failed foreign policy by US President(s) (usually the finger pointing began and ended with Reagan).

Fast forward to today and we have liberals now equivocating the Iranian President and candidate while glossing over the revolutionary groundswell of support for a new ideology and a new way of thinking in Iran all in an effort to validate the Obamessiah's failure to get off the bench and into the game.

This effort is disgusting because it seeks to set aside the people fighting and dying to be heard, those seeking to participate in democracy, seeking a new way and instead attempts to focus the debate on who is the lesser of two evils to lead Iran. F'ing disgusting.

These are the same ****os who have bitched, moaned and complained incessantly and relentlessly since 2000 about the need to "have every vote count" and offered myriad of conspiracy theories on how elections have been stolen in the interim. But when true election fraud occurs, when true patriots seek to have their vote counted, to have their "Hope and Change" stolen away from them all we get from the leftist intelligencia in this country is equivocating and dismissive rhetoric related to people fighting and dying for the rights we take for granted every day.

This is a case study in why liberals make me want to f'ing puke.
Listen, I honestly don't know if you can understand this, but the more lip service we pay to the protestors, we give their (and our) enemies ammunition propaghanda.

Every situation is different, but that's the complex, delicate Iran policy we need to stick to.

Direckshun
09-18-2009, 01:43 PM
That's why I mentioned Ajax. Covert support of a regime change.

Well I have no idea. I can't speculate on that, but covert action does sound like a plausible action.

But even if there was covert action, all I'd be doing is speculating.

Donger
09-18-2009, 01:45 PM
Well I have no idea. I can't speculate on that, but covert action does sound like a plausible action.

But even if there was covert action, all I'd be doing is speculating.

Well, considering how aggressive Obama has been with persecuting CIA personnel, I'm sure they are all lining up to serve in such activities.

Direckshun
09-18-2009, 01:46 PM
Well, considering how aggressive Obama has been with persecuting CIA personnel, I'm sure they are all lining up to serve in such activities.

I can see you have no problem speculating.

Donger
09-18-2009, 01:47 PM
I can see you have no problem speculating.

The former is not speculation at all.

Taco John
09-18-2009, 01:49 PM
And how are we to help them? Are we going to intrude in Iranian affairs like we did with Ajax?


I believe patteeu would call that isolationsim. We should send tanks in ASAP.

RaiderH8r
09-18-2009, 01:51 PM
Listen, I honestly don't know if you can understand this, but the more lip service we pay to the protestors, we give their (and our) enemies ammunition propaghanda.

Every situation is different, but that's the complex, delicate Iran policy we need to stick to.

That doesn't excuse the apologists' equivocations or the administration's policy on Honduras, Venezuela, and now selling out Poland.

Moreover, whereas I rejoice in the efforts of the Iranians seeking their own freedom I still get flack from the Barry O apologists on this trying to equivocate away the fact that Dear Leader is a sideliner and not one to walk out and boldly take a position, any position, ever in his life.

The Iranians are out there in western clothes, taking advantage of a defining western principle (free speech and peaceful protest) holding signs written in english and all the leader of the free world can do is sit and spin on his thumb?

The US is already being villified for this (ASTROTURFERS!) so show a pair and state unequivically that the US is always on the side of freedom. Current Iranian leadership already thinks, rightly, that Barry O is a stuffed shirt full of buckle and bend. What are they gonna do if he takes a side? Develop nuclear arms? Oh, that's right, Barry O's apology tour did nothing to deter them from that policy either.

RJ
09-18-2009, 01:57 PM
Was that dude finger banging a leprechaun?



Now you know what those lucky charms are that everyone's after.

wild1
09-18-2009, 02:02 PM
Well, considering how aggressive Obama has been with persecuting CIA personnel, I'm sure they are all lining up to serve in such activities.

No kidding. They could certainly expect to be sold out if it was politically expedient, we know that much.

Direckshun
09-18-2009, 02:07 PM
I still get flack from the Barry O apologists on this trying to equivocate away the fact that Dear Leader is a sideliner and not one to walk out and boldly take a position, any position, ever in his life.

The Iranians are out there in western clothes, taking advantage of a defining western principle (free speech and peaceful protest) holding signs written in english and all the leader of the free world can do is sit and spin on his thumb?

Yeah, all the leader of the free world can do is sit and spin on his thumb.

I'm dead serious. That's the most he can do here.

He can't do anything militarily, if you're dumb enough to even think that.

And he can't pay it lip service either, because it does not help the Iranians, it helps the people suppressing them.

He can't sit down with the coup in Iran, because that hurts the protestors.

And he can't punish the regime with sanctions, because there's virtually no diplomatic or economic relationship between us to use as leverage.

So the most Obama can do, the very most, is sit and spin on his thumb. Period.

RaiderH8r
09-18-2009, 02:12 PM
Yeah, all the leader of the free world can do is sit and spin on his thumb.

I'm dead serious. That's the most he can do here.

He can't do anything militarily, if you're dumb enough to even think that.

And he can't pay it lip service either, because it does not help the Iranians, it helps the people suppressing them.

He can't sit down with the coup in Iran, because that hurts the protestors.

And he can't punish the regime with sanctions, because there's virtually no diplomatic or economic relationship between us to use as leverage.

So the most Obama can do, the very most, is sit and spin on his thumb. Period.

The very essence of leadership.

Donger
09-18-2009, 02:16 PM
Yeah, all the leader of the free world can do is sit and spin on his thumb.

I'm dead serious. That's the most he can do here.

He can't do anything militarily, if you're dumb enough to even think that.

And he can't pay it lip service either, because it does not help the Iranians, it helps the people suppressing them.

He can't sit down with the coup in Iran, because that hurts the protestors.

And he can't punish the regime with sanctions, because there's virtually no diplomatic or economic relationship between us to use as leverage.

So the most Obama can do, the very most, is sit and spin on his thumb. Period.

The protesters are already being suppressed. Would it embolden the protesters further if the POTUS stood up and said, "We will help you in any way you want"?

I think it would.

So, far Obama seems more concerned with attacking his own countrymen than with ruffling the feathers of our enemies. We can't have that, now can we?

Direckshun
09-18-2009, 02:17 PM
The very essence of leadership.

Well, in this case....

Direckshun
09-18-2009, 02:26 PM
The protesters are already being suppressed. Would it embolden the protesters further if the POTUS stood up and said, "We will help you in any way you want"?

I think it would.

American policy for decades has been to interfere with Iranian politics, and every time it bites us in the ass. There is a huge undercurrent of skepticism that it's the US that drives the resistance in freedom-fighting protests like these.

The US completely overthrew the Iranian government how long ago to replace it with the insanely unpopular Shah who eventually was overthrown by the Iranian people? That's not ancient history, and it's absolutely common knowlege to the people that populate that country.

There's a reason that, since the Shah, every single revolt against suppression in Iran has been labeled by those in power as a puppet exercise by the United States. Our interference in that country is incredibly unpopular, and accusations like that tend to stick with a very large part of the Iranian population that is nothing short of paranoid about it, and justifiably so. Wouldn't you be?

And it works for those doing the suppressing, too. Label the resistance as American, and the revolt's popular support deflates. ESPECIALLY now because the revolt in Iran wants the government overthrown -- and the last thing Iranians want is for America to drive this revolt and turn it into another Shah.

No, throwing US support behind the revolt does more harm that it does good. I assume, of course, that you never read the twitters coming out of Iran. If you're even willing to accept this has evidence, I have yet to read a single twitter that says "please help us overthrow the government, America!" and there've been a truckload of twitters thanking us for not meddling. They want this to be their fight.

And Obama has refused to play this hand so well simply by butting out of it, that Khamenei and Mini-me's attempts to tie this resistance to America have fallen so flat on the population, they've had to now accuse the resistance of being tied to Britain. They've been exposed, and proving them right should be the last thing we do.

Donger
09-18-2009, 02:28 PM
American policy for decades has been to interfere with Iranian politics, and every time it bites us in the ass. There is a huge undercurrent of skepticism that it's the US that drives the resistance in freedom-fighting protests like these.

The US completely overthrew the Iranian government how long ago to replace it with the insanely unpopular Shah who eventually was overthrown by the Iranian people? That's not ancient history, and it's absolutely common knowlege to the people that populate that country.

There's a reason every single revolt against suppression in Iran since the Shah has been labeled by those in power as a puppet exercise by the United States. Our interference in that country is incredibly unpopular, and accusations like that tend to stick with a very large part of the Iranian population is paranoid about it, and justifiably so.

And it works. Label the resistance as American, and the revolt's popular support deflates. ESPECIALLY now because the revolt in Iran wants the government overthrown -- and the last thing Iranians want is for America to drive this revolt and turn it into another Shah.

No, throwing US support behind the revolt does more harm that it does good. I assume, of course, that you never read the twitters coming out of Iran. If you're even willing to accept this has evidence, I have yet to read a single twitter that says "please help us overthrow the government, America!" and there've been a truckload of twitters thanking us for not meddling. They want this to be their fight.

And Obama has (not) played this hand so well by butting out of it, that Khamenei and Mini-me's attempts to tie this resistance to America have fallen so flat on the population, they've had to now accuse the resistance of being tied to Britain. They've been exposed, and proving them right should be the last thing we do.

If the protesters didn't want our (meaning Western worlds') support, even tacit support, why are many of their signs in English?

Direckshun
09-18-2009, 02:33 PM
If the protesters didn't want our (meaning Western worlds') support, even tacit support, why are many of their signs in English?

Many reasons.

They want to be heard not just by those in power, but by those around the world.

Plus there are like six to eight official languages in Iran, depending on how you count. English is sometimes a popular lingua franca there, especially among students.

By the way, they DO want our support. But that doesn't mean we come out and issue 15 White House declarations of support. They just want us to keep our attention on them and to support their cause, not feed into the propaganda machine.

Donger
09-18-2009, 02:35 PM
Many reasons.

They want to be heard not just by those in power, but by those around the world.

Plus there are like six to eight official languages in Iran, depending on how you count. English is sometimes a popular lingua franca there, especially among students.

By the way, they DO want our support. But that doesn't mean we come out and issue 15 White House declarations of support. They just want us to keep our attention on them and to support their cause, not feed into the propaganda machine.

And why do they want to be heard by English-speaking countries? What is the purpose of it?

Direckshun
09-18-2009, 02:41 PM
And why do they want to be heard by English-speaking countries? What is the purpose of it?

Media attention helps the cause of the protestors by highlighting the oppression of Iran's leadership. Iran's leadership does not want attention on them as they crackdown on free political participation.

Iran's government is like every other government on the planet. They want stuff, and want to wheel and deal with everybody on the planet to get the stuff they want. Some of it is goods and services, some of it is trade benefits, some of it is weaponry, some of it is information.

But as media attention is incredibly intense and focused on their bullshit, more countries around the world do not want the appearance that they are doing any business with these assholes, and Iran loses more and more of the available market. (Trade, as you might guess, is oftentimes a powerful deterrent to evil.)

They may want to rule, but they don't want isolationism. But it's going to be harder and harder to pull that off if global attention is squarely focused on what they're doing.

Direckshun
09-18-2009, 02:41 PM
I hope everybody's enjoying today's lesson of Iran 101.

Donger
09-18-2009, 02:42 PM
Media attention helps the cause of the protestors by highlighting the oppression of Iran's leadership.

How?

Direckshun
09-18-2009, 02:47 PM
How?

Iran's government is like every other government on the planet. They want stuff, and want to wheel and deal with everybody on the planet to get the stuff they want. Some of it is goods and services, some of it is trade benefits, some of it is weaponry, some of it is information.

But as media attention is incredibly intense and focused on their bullshit, more countries around the world do not want the appearance that they are doing any business with these assholes, and Iran loses more and more of the available market. (Trade, as you might guess, is oftentimes a powerful deterrent to evil.)

They may want to rule, but they don't want isolationism. But it's going to be harder and harder to pull that off if global attention is squarely focused on what they're doing.

Go Chiefs.

Donger
09-18-2009, 02:54 PM
Go Chiefs.

Media attention without government reaction to that attention means nothing. Is Obama going to do anything this time? You were basically just saying that his only option right now is to sit on thumb.

Now, you seem to be suggesting that he actually do something in the form of sanctions.

Direckshun
09-18-2009, 03:10 PM
Media attention without government reaction to that attention means nothing. Is Obama going to do anything this time? You were basically just saying that his only option right now is to sit on thumb.

Now, you seem to be suggesting that he actually do something in the form of sanctions.

I'm not suggesting no government reaction across the board, but in our case, yes we need zero government reaction. His only option is to sit on his thumb.

He can induce sanctions, if he wants. I suppose that doesn't hurt anything, but what are you going to sanction?

We've already sanctioned Iran into inconsequence, and we do virtually no trading and have virtually no diplomatic relationship with them. What leverage, exactly, do we have on anything they do? Sanctions are worthless at this point.

Our hands are tied, but we mostly have ourselves to blame for that.

Donger
09-18-2009, 03:13 PM
I'm not suggesting no government reaction across the board, but in our case, yes we need zero government reaction. His only option is to sit on his thumb.

He can induce sanctions, if he wants. I suppose that doesn't hurt anything, but what are you going to sanction?

We've already sanctioned Iran into inconsequence, and we do virtually no trading and have virtually no diplomatic relationship with them. What leverage, exactly, do we have on anything they do? Sanctions are worthless at this point.

Our hands are tied, but we mostly have ourselves to blame for that.

I would support the covert overthrow of the present leadership, coordinated with the opposition. It seems that is what many, if not a majority, of Iranians want. Therefore, it would not be comparable to Ajax.

Obama could do that.

I doubt he will, however.

Direckshun
09-18-2009, 03:15 PM
I would support the covert overthrow of the present leadership, coordinated with the opposition. It seems that is what many, if not a majority, of Iranians want.

Wait, what?

A majority of Iranians want the United States to engage in a covert overthrow of their government?

Man oh man, you got a link to go with that rampant speculation?

I am dying to see even the slightest bit of actual evidence behind that claim, because I am willing to bet the evidence came from your head rather than anything you've read from a remotely reliable resource.

Direckshun
09-18-2009, 03:20 PM
Wait, what?

A majority of Iranians want the United States to engage in a covert overthrow of their government?

Man oh man, you got a link to go with that rampant speculation?

I am dying to see even the slightest bit of actual evidence behind that claim, because I am willing to bet the evidence came from your head rather than anything you've read from a remotely reliable resource.

I'm waiting while Donger googles...

I don't think you're going to find much, compadre.

Direckshun
09-18-2009, 03:23 PM
Here's some reading while you google:

The Shah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Reza_Pahlavi)

CIA-sponsored 1953 coup of Iran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat)

Dave Lane
09-18-2009, 03:30 PM
That's why I mentioned Ajax. Covert support of a regime change.

Since its covert how do you know we aren't doing it?

Donger
09-18-2009, 03:30 PM
Wait, what?

A majority of Iranians want the United States to engage in a covert overthrow of their government?

Man oh man, you got a link to go with that rampant speculation?

I am dying to see even the slightest bit of actual evidence behind that claim, because I am willing to bet the evidence came from your head rather than anything you've read from a remotely reliable resource.

You don't think that the majority of Iranians want to the present government gone? If so, they tried by vote and we all saw the result of that.

Donger
09-18-2009, 03:31 PM
Here's some reading while you google:

The Shah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Reza_Pahlavi)

CIA-sponsored 1953 coup of Iran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat)

Good, I'm glad that you looked up Ajax.

Direckshun
09-18-2009, 03:31 PM
Since its covert how do you know we aren't doing it?

Right -- I mean I'd be speculating on ANY covert action, and unlike Donger I'm not comfortable doing that.

Donger
09-18-2009, 03:32 PM
Since its covert how do you know we aren't doing it?

I don't know, but I would highly doubt it, given the present POTUS.

Direckshun
09-18-2009, 03:32 PM
You don't think that the majority of Iranians want to the present government gone? If so, they tried by vote and we all saw the result of that.

Let me guess: Google search came up dry? LOL

I think it's hilarious you just throw your own personal assumptions out there with absolutely no factual basis.

Sure they want their government gone.

But they don't want us doing it.

You don't have to look too far into the past to know why.

Donger
09-18-2009, 03:33 PM
Sure they do.

But they don't want us doing it.

You don't have to look too far into the past to know why.

In the past, we gave them something they didn't want. Did you not learn that while reading about Ajax today?

Direckshun
09-18-2009, 03:34 PM
In the past, we gave them something they didn't want. Did you not learn that while reading about Ajax today?

We'd be doing the same right now.

That's what the entire revolution has been telling us.

Donger
09-18-2009, 03:35 PM
Let me guess: Google search came up dry? LOL

I think it's hilarious you just throw your own personal assumptions out there with absolutely no factual basis.

Sure they want their government gone.

But they don't want us doing it.

You don't have to look too far into the past to know why.

I'm presuming that the recent election results were bogus and that, yes, a majority of Iranians want the present government gone. I wasn't aware that I had to Google that.

Direckshun
09-18-2009, 03:36 PM
I'm presuming that the recent election results were bogus and that, yes, a majority of Iranians want the present government gone. I wasn't aware that I had to Google that.

Of course they were bogus. But nobody (who doesn't just invent facts with zero basis for them) pretends to know what the actual results were.

The fraud was so pervasive that it's impossible to even speculate.

Donger
09-18-2009, 03:36 PM
We'd be doing the same right now.

That's what the entire revolution has been telling us.

Are you speculating? Naughty.

What makes you think we couldn't just help remove the present government and then back away, and let the opposition move in?

Direckshun
09-18-2009, 03:42 PM
Are you speculating? Naughty.

I'm not speculating. Unlike you I actually keep up with the story rather than dropping in once every month and assuming I know how people think in a country on the other side of the planet. Fareed Zakaria has been on this story, for example, from day one. So has Andrew Sullivan, and Nico Pitney. CNN's provided plenty of information. Raza Aslan. And twitter has told us everything we need to know.

This is what Iran wants.

Direckshun
09-18-2009, 03:44 PM
What makes you think we couldn't just help remove the present government and then back away, and let the opposition move in?

I absolutely had to highlight this separately because it is priceless.

If I had asked you this question about Iraq in 2002, what would you have said?

ROFL

Donger
09-18-2009, 03:44 PM
I'm not speculating. Unlike you I actually keep up with the story rather than dropping in once every month and assuming I know how people think in a country on the other side of the planet. Fareed Zakaria has been on this story, for example, from day one. So has Andrew Sullivan, and Nico Pitney. CNN's provided plenty of information. Raza Aslan. And twitter has told us everything we need to know.

This is what Iran wants.

So Iran doesn't want our help?

Donger
09-18-2009, 03:45 PM
I absolutely had to highlight this separately because it is priceless.

If I had asked you this question about Iraq in 2002, what would you have said?

ROFL

I would have said, "Yes." And we did.

Direckshun
09-18-2009, 03:49 PM
So Iran doesn't want our help?

That's incredibly vague way to word it.

Militarily, they do not want our help.

They also don't want the government to come out and say what Mini-me wants them to say, which is these protestors are doing the right thing and we support you.

Direckshun
09-18-2009, 03:50 PM
I would have said, "Yes." And we did.

Yeah how could I forget how well that turned out for everybody.

BucEyedPea
09-18-2009, 03:51 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if this has US operating it covertly....even Hillary admitted the last ones were orchestrated by us. That doesn't mean there isn't such a movement in the country though.

I know and I've seen pictures of Iranian dissidents arrested being charged with working with the US for the Green movement years before the last protests even.

Donger
09-18-2009, 03:53 PM
That's incredibly vague way to word it.

Militarily, they do not want our help.

They also don't want the government to come out and say what Mini-me wants them to say, which is these protestors are doing the right thing and we support you.

Sounds like they should just shut up, then, and stop making signs in English.

Donger
09-18-2009, 03:53 PM
Yeah how could I forget how well that turned out for everybody.

Just illustrating that we've done it before. Thanks for preempting using Iraq as an example, BTW.

BucEyedPea
09-18-2009, 03:55 PM
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Donger
09-18-2009, 03:57 PM
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OMG! A state department employee Twittering?! Those evil Neo-Cons!

LMAO

BucEyedPea
09-18-2009, 03:59 PM
OMG! A state department employee Twittering?! Those evil Neo-Cons!

LMAO

That's all ya' got? You don't know that MEK a terrorist group hired by the US, just before we invaded Iraq, to go into Iran and commit acts of terror with car bombings and kidnapping of officials. This has been going on since then. People in Iran were arrested for cooperating with the US even then. This hadn't only involved a use of Twitter. Get real. Usually when we're demonizing a nation, we have some sort of covert operation or even military already involved.

petegz28
09-18-2009, 04:39 PM
Anybody seeing these stunning pictures and videos online today?

After being beaten, murdered, threatened, marginalized, and denied a government that truly cares about them or is in any way representative of them, Iran's massive protests today are an inspiration.

They are gigantic. They are flowing all over Tehran. They are peaceful.

I watch this and I am just convinced that Iranians are my blood brothers.

They are risking so much to gain so much. And they are the best shot that country will ever have at a productive, positive relationship with us and the rest of the world.

I'm coping Sullivan and I'm going green for Iran today, ya'll.

Hokey, I know. But I'm inspired.



Wow, you're blood brothers? You cry about shouting and protestig at Town Hall meetings.....:rolleyes:

Donger
09-18-2009, 05:24 PM
That's all ya' got? You don't know that MEK a terrorist group hired by the US, just before we invaded Iraq, to go into Iran and commit acts of terror with car bombings and kidnapping of officials.

Proof?

BucEyedPea
09-18-2009, 05:26 PM
Proof?

Proof or a news link? I posted it way back. Go look for it.

Donger
09-18-2009, 05:28 PM
Proof or a news link? I posted it way back. Go look for it.

Whatever you can provide would be peachy.

BucEyedPea
09-18-2009, 05:37 PM
Whatever you can provide would be peachy.

Well, I've got lots of stuff on MEK from the same source which is libertarian but it's not on that exact point. And I'm sure you'll diss the source.

Link (http://original.antiwar.com/charles-davis/2009/07/02/us-lawmakers-call-for-supporting-terrorists-in-iran/)

Oh and btw, you can find stuff on that site that traces the contradictory reports about intel on Iran being traced to Mossad.

Donger
09-18-2009, 05:40 PM
Well, I've got lots of stuff on MEK from the same source which is libertarian but it's not on that exact point. And I'm sure you'll diss the source.

Link (http://original.antiwar.com/charles-davis/2009/07/02/us-lawmakers-call-for-supporting-terrorists-in-iran/)

Oh and btw, you can find stuff on that site that traces the contradictory reports about intel on Iran being traced to Mossad.

Heavens, I can't imagine why I'd question that source. Anything else?

BucEyedPea
09-18-2009, 05:47 PM
Ah okay, here's on on the point I made.
Link (http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2004/01/28/richard-perle-supports-terrorism/)

Jan 2004--This is closer....

Their [MEK] fate has become a political football, pitting the U.S. State Department against the neoconservatives in Washington who now have Iran fixed in their sights. The neocons are pushing the idea that we can use the MEK to overthrow the Iranian regime: this is the same group that tried to ingratiate itself with the Bush.

In Congress, where more than a hundred legislators signed a letter of support for MEK, Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-Fla.) is their Boadicea, and Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Texas) their Joan of Arc. Tom Tancredo (R-Colo.) is another of their major champions, a group that includes Reps. Edolphus Towns (D-N.Y.), Lincoln Diaz-Balart (R-Fla.) and Bob Filner (D-Calif.).administration by sharing “intelligence” that supposedly pointed to Iran’s intention of developing a nuclear weapons program...

U.S. law enforcement conducted a series of raids that rounded up prominent MEK cadre, closed down their offices, and froze their assets, but, operating under the protection of Washington’s War Party, these terrorists are freely going about their business, and even gaining open support from prominent U.S. government officials, like Perle. What’s interesting is that their support cuts across ideological and party lines.

You might want to read the whole article to get the true flavor.

BucEyedPea
09-18-2009, 05:52 PM
Heavens, I can't imagine why I'd question that source. Anything else?

That's my main source on this because they specialize only in deciphering wars, propaganda for wars and who's behind pushing them. All wars. They did it on the Balkans too. It links to various other news sites and crosses party lines.

You're not going to find such a compilation anywhere else. Just bits and pieces. It's been accurate so far too. They were who I turned to when I only had a gut feel Iraq was a bad move. They've been right so far too. So I'm stickin' with them. It's an excellent source as far as I'm concerned. They have three former CIA writing and contributing for them too. One who even appears on FOX and CNN from time to time.

You're just too conventional and only want believe what the Establishment aka MSN wants you too. But take a look at the details and the links to them and what's happened with European govts cracking down on MEK that we hear little about. Or even the Red Cross. Open your mind a bit more.

Direckshun
09-20-2009, 07:48 PM
Sounds like they should just shut up, then, and stop making signs in English.

See, this is exactly why your side keeps losing elections. Because in your lust for bashing Obama on whatever grounds, you completely forget to actually have a reasonable alternative.

Which, of course, you don't.

Your alternatives in this thread have amounted to the same failed policies in Iran that have been letting us down for a century, and to have the protestors "shut up" and to moderate what languages they use when they speak. You've even alluded to invading Iran, no doubt the third war in the Middle East you would have supported in eight years.

You haven't the slightest ****ing clue about Iran.

Dave Lane
09-20-2009, 10:35 PM
I don't know

fyp