PDA

View Full Version : U.S. Issues Ten Swine Flu Lies Told by the Mainstream Media


KILLER_CLOWN
09-18-2009, 10:06 PM
Mike Adams
Natural News
Friday, September 18, 2009

(NaturalNews) The mainstream media is engaged in what we Americans call “bald faced lies” about swine flu. It seems to be true with this issue more than any other, and it became apparent to me recently when a colleague of mine — a nationally-syndicated newspaper columnist — told me their column on natural defenses for swine flu was rejected by newspapers all across the country. Many newspapers refused to run the column and, instead, ran an ad for “free vaccine clinics” in the same space.

The media, it seems, is so deeply in bed with the culture of vaccinations that they will do almost anything to keep the public misinformed. And that includes lying about swine flu vaccines.

There are ten key lies that continue to be told by the mainstream media (MSM) about swine flu and swine flu vaccines.
Lie #1 – There are no adjuvants used in the vaccines

I was recently being interviewed by a major U.S. news network when the reporter interviewing me came up with this humdinger: There are no adjuvants being used in the swine flu vaccines, he said!

I assured him that adjuvants were, indeed, a crucial part of the vaccine recipe, and they were being widely used by drug companies to “stretch” the vaccine supply. It’s no secret. But he insisted he had been directly told by a drug company rep that no adjuvants were being used at all. And he believed them! So everything being published by this large news network about swine flu vaccines now assumes there are no adjuvants in the vaccines at all.
Lie #2 – The swine flu is more dangerous than seasonal flu

This lie is finally starting to unravel. I admit that in the early days of this pandemic, even I was concerned this could be a global killer. But after observing the very mild impact the virus was having on people in the real world, it became obvious that this was a mild flu, no more dangerous than a seasonal flu.

The MSM, however, continues to promote H1N1 swine flu as being super dangerous, driving fear into the minds of people and encouraging them to rush out and get a vaccine shot for a flu that’s really no more likely to kill them than the regular winter sniffles. Sure, the virus could still mutate into something far worse, but if it does that, the current vaccine could be rendered obsolete anyway!
Lie #3 – Vaccines protect you from swine flu

This is the biggest lie of all, and the media pushes it hard. Getting a vaccine, they insist, will protect you from the swine flu. But it’s just flat-out false. Even if the vaccine produces antibodies, that’s not the same thing as real-world immunity from a live virus, especially if the virus mutates (as they often do).

As I pointed out in a recent article, statistically speaking the average American is 40 times more likely to be struck by lightning than to have their life saved by a swine flu vaccine. (http://www.naturalnews.com/026955_s…)
Lie #4 – Vaccines are safe

And how would any journalists actually know this? None of the vaccines have been subjected to real-world testing for any meaningful duration. The “safety” of these vaccines is nothing more than wishful thinking.

The MSM also doesn’t want you to know what’s in the vaccines. Some vaccines are made from viral fragments grown in diseased African monkeys. If that sounds incredible, read the true story here: http://www.naturalnews.com/026779_s…
Lie #5 – The vaccine isn’t mandatory

You hear this lie all the time: The swine flu vaccine shot is voluntary, they say. But it’s not true if you’re an employee at a place where vaccines are being mandated. Millions of Americans are now being told by their employers that if they don’t get vaccine shots, they will be effectively fired from their jobs. It’s especially true with health care workers, day care employees and school teachers.
Lie #6 – Getting a vaccine shot is a good bet on your health

In reality, a vaccine shot is far more likely to harm you than help you. According to one viral expert, the actual mortality rate of the swine flu virus is estimated to be as low as .007 percent (http://www.reuters.com/article/heal…). That means H1N1 swine flu kills less than one person in 100,000. Even if the vaccine works, let’s say, 10 percent of the time, you’d have to vaccine one million people to prevent one death from swine flu.

And in vaccinating one million people, you would inevitably harm or kill several people, simply from the vaccine side effects! Your net risk of death is increased by getting a swine flu vaccine.
Lie #7 – The vaccine isn’t made with “attenuated live virus”

When the swine flu vaccines were first being announced several months ago, they were described as being made with “attenuated live virus.” This was directly mentioned in CDC documents, among other places.

This term apparently freaked out the American news consumer, and it has since been all but erased from any discussion about vaccines. Now, journalists will actually argue with you and insist the vaccines contain no attenuated live viruses whatsoever.

Except they’re wrong. The vaccines are, indeed, made with “attenuated live viruses.” That’s how you make a vaccine: You take live viruses, then you weaken them (”attenuate”) and inject them into people.
Lie #8 – Wash, wash, wash your hands (to avoid exposure)

This idea of washing your hands a hundred times a day is all based on the assumption that you can avoid exposure to the swine flu virus. But that’s impractical. The virus is now so widespread that virtually everyone is certain to be exposed to it through the air if not other means. This whole idea of avoiding exposure to the swine flu virus is nonsense. The conversation should shift to ways to survive exposure via a healthy immune system.

Of course, hand washing is a very good idea in a hospital setting. Recent news reveals that doctors are too busy to wash their own hands, resulting in the rampant spread of superbugs throughout most large hospitals in first world nations.
Lie #9 – Children are more vulnerable to swine flu than adults

This is just a flat-out lie, but it makes for good vaccine sales. Vaccines are right now being targeted primarily to schoolchildren.

But the truth is that swine flu is extremely mild in children. “It’s mildest in kids,” says Dr Marc Lipsitch of Harvard University. “That’s one of the really good pieces of news in this pandemic.” Reuters actually had the guts to report this story, but most of the larger media outlets are still reporting that children are the most vulnerable.
Lie #10 – There is nothing else you can do beyond a vaccine and Tamiflu

This is where the media lies by omission. The mainstream media absolutely refuses to print just about any story that talks about using vitamin D, anti-viral herbs or natural remedies to protect yourself from swine flu. In the MSM, there are two options and only two: Vaccines and Tamiflu. That’s it. No other options exist in their fictional reality.

Why is the mainstream media so afraid to print the truth these days? Why can’t reporting on swine flu see the light of day… literally, with a mention of sunlight and vitamin D? Apparently, Big Pharma has such a tight grip on mainstream newspapers that no true story on swine flu can ever make it past the editor’s desk.
Killing stories, deceiving the public

It must really be depressing to work for the mainstream media. Even the reporters I know can’t stand it. The truth, they admit, rarely makes it into print.

Over the last few years, I’ve had a couple of job offers from large media outlets. They want to pay me a six-figure salary and stick me behind a desk where they can control what I report. Needless to say, I routinely reject those offers. If I can’t write the truth like I do here on NaturalNews.com, there’s no point writing at all. In too many ways, the mainstream media has become little more than a corporate mouthpiece, whoring itself out to the highest bidder / advertiser.

It’s no fault of the frontline reporters who actually work there. For the most part, they agree with what I’m saying. It’s the fault of the profit-oriented corporate mindset where news is about selling newspapers rather than actually informing the public.

Important news stories get killed every day in the newsrooms across America. They get killed not because they are poorly investigated or poorly written, but because they upset advertisers and corporate string pullers who shape the news and reject any stories that threaten their own financial interests.

Here in 2009, the distorted reporting on the swine flu vaccine has been one of the greatest media frauds ever perpetrated. The media has in every way contributed to the widespread ignorance of the American people on the subject of vitamin D and natural immune-boosting defenses that could reduce swine flu fatalities. Rather than informing readers, the MSM has made it a point to keep the people stupid, and in doing so, the media has failed its only mission and betrayed the very audience is claims to serve.

http://www.naturalnews.com/swine_flu_vaccines.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/mainstream_media.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/flu_vaccines.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/vaccines.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/swine_flu.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/pandemic.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/MSM.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/H1N1.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/026955_swine_flu_vaccines_flu_vaccines.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/026779_swine_flu_patents_vaccines.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/health.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/flu_virus.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/viruses.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/hospital.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/media_outlets.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/newspapers.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/America.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/027055_swine_flu_vaccines_swine_flu_vaccine.html

RJ
09-18-2009, 10:24 PM
I don't feel like reading the whole article. Can you tell me why the MSM wants us to get flu vaccines? What's their angle on this?

KILLER_CLOWN
09-18-2009, 10:30 PM
I don't feel like reading the whole article. Can you tell me why the MSM wants us to get flu vaccines? What's their angle on this?

I'm sure there are more reasons than i can think of but #1 is Pharmaceuticals companies stand to make major profits and already have selling them to who? you guessed it our government.

What is the #1 goal of the pharmaceutical companies? To Make money and the more the merrier, so do they profit from people being well? Or will they make a lot more money if they can either keep you sick, on a maintenance dose or treating symptoms but never curing the actual cause.

RJ
09-18-2009, 10:46 PM
So what's in it for the media? I haven't seen any ads for swine flu vaccine.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-18-2009, 10:50 PM
So what's in it for the media? I haven't seen any ads for swine flu vaccine.

Count how many advertisements are drug ads, sometimes i'll watch and see nothing but pharmaceutical commercials.

RJ
09-18-2009, 10:55 PM
True that. The drug companies and health insurance companies spend boatloads on advertising. That's one of the main reasons I favor insurance and health care reform. No one gives up billions easily.

Nonetheless, I will make certain my family gets both flu vaccines this year. I'm actually starting to worry that the media is under-reporting swine flu stories now, maybe to make up for their overblown frenzy back in the spring.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-18-2009, 10:57 PM
True that. The drug companies and health insurance companies spend boatloads on advertising. That's one of the main reasons I favor insurance and health care reform. No one gives up billions easily.

Nonetheless, I will make certain my family gets both flu vaccines this year. I'm actually starting to worry that the media is under-reporting swine flu stories now, maybe to make up for their overblown frenzy back in the spring.

Actually there is some truth to the fact that that cases are not being reported because it's so underwhelming(the number of cases) the campaign wasn't working.

Hog Farmer
09-19-2009, 12:51 AM
I don't get flu vaccinations and never will. Whether it's a killed virus or a live virus doesn't matter. I do vaccinate my hogs because they are in a naive environment. Humans are so exposed no matter how many times you wash your hands . This is way overblown and we have a government that is bent on covering that ass.

alnorth
09-19-2009, 01:09 AM
Going down the list. There's a few things I agree with, and a lot of silliness.

#1) *Drudge Report Siren* Television reporter gets a fact wrong in a field where he has no professional knowledge or training! Shocking indictment of all of journalism! News at 11! *Drudge Report Siren*

As for the Adjuvant themselves, I wasnt able to find a credible report suggesting this is harmful. At worst, there are some people who argue that they are not necessary.

#2) Mostly true. I'll absolutely agree that the media has been overhyping the hell out of this for selfish motives. However, it might be worth a cautionary note to mention that although this strain is very mild, scientists are concerned that it could mutate into a deadlier form, since I guess the 1918 plague was a similar type of flu virus as this H1N1 virus.

#3) Technically true, but this is an extremely stupid argument. "The Vaccine isnt a 100% protection, and doesnt immunize you as well as catching the real thing!" Well, duh. The point is to avoid the symptoms in the first place.

If it gives only a 75% chance of avoiding symptoms, its worth a few bucks to me to take that chance, because having just normal ordinary flu still sucks. I avoided catching the flu 5 years in a row, but then the vaccine two years ago didnt work and I was laid out for a few days. I guess I wasted my money that year, but I still got my shot last year.

#4) ROFL oh, come on. Its not like we are testing a vaccine for the ebola virus. Its the damned flu, using similar methods for seasonal flu for years. Aside from that, this point is wrong anyway, they HAVE run tests, including a test on children near me in Iowa recently. The data shows the vaccine is highly effective.

#5) Health care workers have to get flu shots? Tough, I dont care.

Its well-known to the general public and anyone going into medicine that they have to be immunized far more than most people. If Joe Bob at the Auto shop doesnt want to get a shot, fine but I damned sure don't want the doctor treating a close relative to pile on their problems with the flu while their immune system is possibly weakened already.

#6) Couple problems. First, we have the concept of the "eggshell skull" where certain people are just born with these kryptonite weaknesses that dont harm the other 10 million people. Fine, we cant do anything about that. You may also be more likely to die in a car crash while driving to the clinic.

Thats not the point, you dont get flu shots in an attempt to save your life. People who get flu shots for this reason have other paranoid mental issues they need to deal with. I get flu shots because I want to improve my odds of not having to lay in bed or the couch sick all damn day every other year.

#7) Agreed. See #1 above, except this is even worse for the journalist because this is common-knowledge stuff.

#8) Sure. I'm ok with encouraging people to wash their hands just in general though, so I'm not too agitated over this.

#9) I havent researched this enough (nor do I care enough to), but it wouldnt surprise me. We've seen many cases where an early truth winds up false and its hard to shake people off of it.

For an easy example, see the recent murder of Annie Le, everyone immediately assumed the killer (Ray Clark) must have been in love with her, just because she died shortly before her wedding, but without any real evidence. Turns out that was completely wrong, he was an obsessive nut who flipped out when people didnt clean mouse cages properly. In other words, he probably literally killed her over mouse crap. Even with all that now out, I still hear people and talk show hosts talk about how he was stalking her.

#10) Great. Witch Doctor with a Bone through the nose, ooga-booga medicine.

Sure, if I'm stranded on a desert island with some vitimins and herbs (and for some reason I was more worried about the flu than being stranded) then I'll take them. Otherwise, I'm getting my shot next month. (Well, I guess it'll be two this year)

KILLER_CLOWN
09-19-2009, 01:13 AM
Going down the list. There's a few things I agree with, and a lot of silliness.

#1) *Drudge Report Siren* Television reporter gets a fact wrong in a field where he has no professional knowledge or training! Shocking indictment of all of journalism! News at 11! *Drudge Report Siren*

As for the Adjuvant themselves, I wasnt able to find a credible report suggesting this is harmful. At worst, there are some people who argue that they are not necessary.

#2) Mostly true. I'll absolutely agree that the media has been overhyping the hell out of this for selfish motives. However, it might be worth a cautionary note to mention that although this strain is very mild, scientists are concerned that it could mutate into a deadlier form, since I guess the 1918 plague was a similar type of flu virus as this H1N1 virus.

#3) Technically true, but this is an extremely stupid argument. "The Vaccine isnt a 100% protection, and doesnt immunize you as well as catching the real thing!" Well, duh. The point is to avoid the symptoms in the first place.

If it gives only a 75% chance of avoiding symptoms, its worth a few bucks to me to take that chance, because having just normal ordinary flu still sucks. I avoided catching the flu 5 years in a row, but then the vaccine two years ago didnt work and I was laid out for a few days. I guess I wasted my money that year, but I still got my shot last year.

#4) ROFL oh, come on. Its not like we are testing a vaccine for the ebola virus. Its the damned flu, using similar methods for seasonal flu for years. Aside from that, this point is wrong anyway, they HAVE run tests, including a test on children near me in Iowa recently. The data shows the vaccine is highly effective.

#5) Health care workers have to get flu shots? Tough, I dont care.

Its well-known to the general public and anyone going into medicine that they have to be immunized far more than most people. If Joe Bob at the Auto shop doesnt want to get a shot, fine but I damned sure don't want the doctor treating a close relative to pile on their problems with the flu while their immune system is possibly weakened already.

#6) Couple problems. First, we have the concept of the "eggshell skull" where certain people are just born with these kryptonite weaknesses that dont harm the other 10 million people. Fine, we cant do anything about that. You may also more likely to die in a car crash while driving to the clinic.

Thats not the point, you dont get flu shots in an attempt to save your life. People who get flu shots for this reason have other mental issues they want to deal with. I get flu shots because I want to improve my odds of not having to lay in bed or the couch sick all damn day every other year.

#7) Agreed. See #1 above, except this is even worse for the journalist because this is common-knowledge stuff.

#8) Sure. I'm ok with encouraging people to wash their hands just in general though, so I'm not to agitated over this.

#9) I havent researched this enough (nor do I care enough to), but it wouldnt surprise me. We've seen many cases where an early truth winds up false and its hard to shake people off of it.

For an easy example, see the recent murder of Annie Le, everyone immediately assumed the killer (Ray Clark) must have been obsessively in love with her, killing her before the wedding without any evidence. Turns out that was completely wrong, he was an obsessive nut who flipped out when people didnt clean mouse cages properly. In other words, he probably literally killed her over mouse crap. Even with all that now out, I still hear people and talk show hosts talk about how he was stalking her.

#10) Great. Witch Doctor with a Bone through the nose, ooga-booga medicine.

Sure, if I'm stranded on a desert island with some vitimins and herbs (and for some reason I was more worried about the flu than being stranded) then I'll take them. Otherwise, I'm getting my shot next month. (Well, I guess it'll be two this year)

Before you and RJ get your shots you may want to check out the information on this site http://www.nvic.org/ The national vaccine information center.

Also on #10 i must suggest that your immune system is the 1st and last defense against every ailment.

You can check out what happened with the last swine flu scare here

Swine flu 'debacle' of 1976 is recalled

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/apr/27/science/sci-swine-history27

alnorth
09-19-2009, 01:34 AM
Before you and RJ get your shots you may want to check out the information on this site http://www.nvic.org/ The national vaccine information center.

Also on #10 i must suggest that your immune system is the 1st and last defense against every ailment.

You can check out what happened with the last swine flu scare here

Swine flu 'debacle' of 1976 is recalled

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/apr/27/science/sci-swine-history27

Your absolute worst-case scenario of a "flu shot gone bad" in the history of the united states (1976), about 50 million received the shot in this country, and 25 died from complications of the shot rather than the flu itself, one of the only (or was it the only?) times in history where the flu shot killed more than the flu.

Your still talking a mortality (of the worst flu shot in history) of 0.00005%. Again, I'm a lot more likely to die of a car crash this year than if I had taken the worst flu shot in American history. I'm really not worried about dying. I am willing to take that chance to improve my odds of not staying home sick a couple days.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-19-2009, 01:41 AM
Your absolute worst-case scenario of a "flu shot gone bad" in the history of the united states (1976), about 50 million received the shot in this country, and 25 died from complications of the shot rather than the flu itself, one of the only (or was it the only?) times in history where the flu shot killed more than the flu.

Your still talking a mortality (of the worst flu shot in history) of 0.00005%. Again, I'm a lot more likely to die of a car crash this year than if I had taken the worst flu shot in American history. I'm really not worried about dying. I am willing to take that chance to improve my odds of not staying home sick a couple days.

Not just 25 deaths but many have suffered dehabilitating illnesses from that shot.

Chiefshrink
09-19-2009, 01:51 AM
Nothing but a WH diversionary and psychological tactic to make the public think the WH is sooooooooo concerned for everyone's health thus in turn will move the public to support Obamacare. Also it is designed to take the public's attention off the economy as well.

FWIW never ever get a damn flu shot. Your own immune system is it's strongest when it is allowed to build it's own immunity naturally on it's own.

alnorth
09-19-2009, 01:51 AM
Not just 25 deaths but many have suffered dehabilitating illnesses from that shot.

and that was 500 out of 50 million. For the worst flu shot in American history. We've had some advances in creating vaccines since then, as well as the fact that there have been some tests of this vaccine. That 1976 vaccine had almost no tests and side-effects were quickly apparent (but too late to stop anything). So, we are basically talking about a vaccine much more likely to be as "deadly" as last year's vaccine than the 1976 vaccine.

alnorth
09-19-2009, 01:56 AM
FWIW never ever get a damn flu shot. Your own immune system is it's strongest when it is allowed to build it's own immunity naturally on it's own.

You betcha, your immunity will be ready to roll when you get the same virus a month after the first one laid you out for a few days.

Look, I'll be the first to oppose forced vaccinations just simply on civil libertarian grounds (except in EXTREME hollywood disaster movie scenarios where its abundantly obvious we have the black death upon us, and even then I'd only force kids under 18. Their idiot parents can die if they want). If you dont mind getting sick every so often, fine. My time is worth more than the few dollars (or actually free from my employer) it takes to improve my chances.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-19-2009, 01:56 AM
and that was 500 out of 50 million. For the worst flu shot in American history. We've had some advances in creating vaccines since then, as well as the fact that there have been some tests of this vaccine. That 1976 vaccine had almost no tests and side-effects were quickly apparent (but too late to stop anything). So, we are basically talking about a vaccine much more likely to be as "deadly" as last year's vaccine than the 1976 vaccine.

This 60 Minutes report claimed over 4000 had suffered injuries relating to Guillain-Barre syndrome.

http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x9mh9f

*edit*

That video harkens back to when real reporting was done, too bad MSM is all bought and paid for now.

Chiefshrink
09-19-2009, 01:57 AM
The number 1 reason why people get the flu or a cold for that matter is not germ infested hands(although contributes) but is "the lack of sleep". When you get plenty of sleep which most of us don't our immune system only operates minimally thus we catch colds and flus very easily. But if we get our sleep then germ infested hands are far less effective.

PastorMikH
09-19-2009, 02:13 AM
Wife is a registered nurse. The hospital where she works has told the employees that if they don't take the vaccine they won't be allowed to work.


Wife and I also debate the effectiveness of flu vaccines. She swears by them and says they make a big difference with her. Me on the other hand, when I was on the fire dept in the last town we lived in, we got free flu shots. The years I took the shots, I'd get nagging symptoms every few weeks that, though they weren't enough to put me in bed, were enough to make me feel like crap. The years I didn't get flu shots, I got the flu once, spent several days in bed and drank several gallons of OJ and then felt fine the rest of the year.

alnorth
09-19-2009, 02:15 AM
This 60 Minutes report claimed over 4000 had suffered injuries relating to Guillain-Barre syndrome.

http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x9mh9f

Eh, my source was wikipedia, but I couldnt track down their source. OK fair enough, I'll go with yours. The worst shot in american history, which wasnt really tested like this one, may have injured as many as 1 in 15,000, and killed about 1 in 2 million.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-19-2009, 02:31 AM
Wife is a registered nurse. The hospital where she works has told the employees that if they don't take the vaccine they won't be allowed to work.


Wife and I also debate the effectiveness of flu vaccines. She swears by them and says they make a big difference with her. Me on the other hand, when I was on the fire dept in the last town we lived in, we got free flu shots. The years I took the shots, I'd get nagging symptoms every few weeks that, though they weren't enough to put me in bed, were enough to make me feel like crap. The years I didn't get flu shots, I got the flu once, spent several days in bed and drank several gallons of OJ and then felt fine the rest of the year.

That's about how it happens with me, I used to get sick a lot because of poor diet and sleeping habits. I haven't had the flu since 2003 although i did have a sore throat for about half a day last year. I took 2000 IU vitamin D and approx 1500mg echinacea in the morning and it was gone later that same day.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-19-2009, 02:32 AM
Eh, my source was wikipedia, but I couldnt track down their source. OK fair enough, I'll go with yours. The worst shot in american history, which wasnt really tested like this one, may have injured as many as 1 in 15,000, and killed about 1 in 2 million.

I understand the risk seems low but exactly how much is known about long term health effects?

Pioli Zombie
09-19-2009, 08:15 AM
Bwana sucks cock.
Posted via Mobile Device

WilliamTheIrish
09-19-2009, 09:15 AM
Nothing but a WH diversionary and psychological tactic to make the public think the WH is sooooooooo concerned for everyone's health thus in turn will move the public to support Obamacare. Also it is designed to take the public's attention off the economy as well.

FWIW never ever get a damn flu shot. Your own immune system is it's strongest when it is allowed to build it's own immunity naturally on it's own.

Could you possibly try to give even the slightest thought to what you're saying?

You do realize the first "threats" of swine flu started last August? Long before the election.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-19-2009, 10:46 AM
Could you possibly try to give even the slightest thought to what you're saying?

You do realize the first "threats" of swine flu started last August? Long before the election.

I realise the propaganda started back then.

WilliamTheIrish
09-19-2009, 11:11 AM
I realise the propaganda started back then.

I know you do. But sportsshrinkage was .... being the shrinkage.

RJ
09-19-2009, 11:19 AM
So KILLER CLOWN, if, hypothetically, no one were to receive the swine flu vaccine, do you think there would be more or fewer deaths as a result?

KILLER_CLOWN
09-19-2009, 11:25 AM
So KILLER CLOWN, if, hypothetically, no one were to receive the swine flu vaccine, do you think there would be more or fewer deaths as a result?

Fewer by far, the swine flu is less deadly than the seasonal variant.

alnorth
09-19-2009, 11:41 AM
So KILLER CLOWN, if, hypothetically, no one were to receive the swine flu vaccine, do you think there would be more or fewer deaths as a result?

I dont think the "deaths" would change very much. Perhaps a few people would not die from the flu, perhaps a couple would die from the shot (highly unlikely).

Thats not the point. Anyone who gets a shot because they are afraid of dying from the flu is either a 90-year old hospital patient, or needs their head examined. You get the shot to improve your chances of not having to spend a day or two on the couch feeling like crap. If your fine with having a higher chance of feeling sick, then the shot is a waste of your money.

Honestly though, this swine flu is apparently so mild, that if you only want one shot this year, forget the H1N1, get the seasonal one.

banyon
09-19-2009, 11:50 AM
Fewer by far, the swine flu is less deadly than the seasonal variant.

A little remedial math I think is in order.

A) Deaths from swine flu to date = 3205

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jQFSkHL1Ij-9QJvxRfj-CBGueBfw

B) Deaths from vaccination to date = 0

C) Death rate of worst vaccine in history that KILLER CLOWN agreed to a few posts ago = 1 in 2 million

D) World Population = 6,700,000,000

E) = (C*D) Deaths if vaccine is worst ever and everyone on planet receives it = 3350 (6,700,000,000 * .0000005)

KILLER_CLOWN
09-19-2009, 11:52 AM
A little remedial math I think is in order.

A) Deaths from swine flu to date = 3205

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jQFSkHL1Ij-9QJvxRfj-CBGueBfw

B) Deaths from vaccination to date = 0

C) Death rate of worst vaccine in history that KILLER CLOWN agreed to a few posts ago = 1 in 2 million

D) World Population = 6,700,000,000

E) = (C*D) Deaths if vaccine is worst ever and everyone on planet receives it = 3350 (6,700,000,000 * .0000005)

How many die JUST IN THE US every year from the seasonal flu? 36k

Most of those that died had some other ailment and all had compromised immune systems.

banyon
09-19-2009, 12:06 PM
How many die JUST IN THE US every year from the seasonal flu? 36k

Most of those that died had some other ailment and all had compromised immune systems.

i thought we were talking about the risk of the vaccine and not the flu?

KILLER_CLOWN
09-19-2009, 12:11 PM
i thought we were talking about the risk of the vaccine and not the flu?

So the risk is low but deadly but the reward is you may get a case that is a little easier to deal with and you may not. Add that to the fact that we DO NOT KNOW long term health effects of getting the shot.

kcfanXIII
09-19-2009, 12:13 PM
Eh, my source was wikipedia, but I couldnt track down their source. OK fair enough, I'll go with yours. The worst shot in american history, which wasnt really tested like this one, may have injured as many as 1 in 15,000, and killed about 1 in 2 million.

so was that one actually tested? were the pharma companies granted immunity from liability lawsuits? was one of those companies responsible for shipping out live flu virus, instead of actual vaccines? you are right though, there have been advances in technology. which will allow the eugenicists a much more effective means to kill. no thanks, i'll take a bullet before i let them stick me with that shit.

oh, and one of the adjuvants used is called squalene, which is being blamed on gulf war syndrome. once again, i'll take my chances.

RJ
09-19-2009, 12:16 PM
I dont think the "deaths" would change very much. Perhaps a few people would not die from the flu, perhaps a couple would die from the shot (highly unlikely).

Thats not the point. Anyone who gets a shot because they are afraid of dying from the flu is either a 90-year old hospital patient, or needs their head examined. You get the shot to improve your chances of not having to spend a day or two on the couch feeling like crap. If your fine with having a higher chance of feeling sick, then the shot is a waste of your money.

Honestly though, this swine flu is apparently so mild, that if you only want one shot this year, forget the H1N1, get the seasonal one.


I understand. I was just trying to follow where KC was coming from. I don't fear either one, but I also don't want me or my family getting sick. it's a pain in the ass and you likely spread it to others. My wife works in a large office building with hundreds of people, my daughter is a first grader and I volunteer at the school at least once a week. I'm all for minimizing our potential for becoming ill or making others ill.

kcfanXIII
09-19-2009, 12:19 PM
I understand. I was just trying to follow where KC was coming from. I don't fear either one, but I also don't want me or my family getting sick. it's a pain in the ass and you likely spread it to others. My wife works in a large office building with hundreds of people, my daughter is a first grader and I volunteer at the school at least once a week. I'm all for minimizing our potential for becoming ill or making others ill.

try this one, if any of you get sick, have them stay home. don't eat the grass like the rest of the sheep. i'm gonna hate seeing the sticky from rj that says, "my daughter is sick." then when us tin foil guys chime in to say i told you so, we're gonna be the assholes.

alnorth
09-19-2009, 12:20 PM
So the risk is low but deadly but the reward is you may get a case that is a little easier to deal with and you may not. Add that to the fact that we DO NOT KNOW long term health effects of getting the shot.

What of the risk of driving a car? What about the risk of watching a NASCAR race in the front row? You cant live life in a fit of paranoia afraid of every risk. Obviously you should be prudent and think a couple times before diving into a shark tank with blood-soaked beef strapped to your waist, but the "risk" of vaccines is hilariously low, especially compared to the very real benefit.

alnorth
09-19-2009, 12:22 PM
try this one, if any of you get sick, have them stay home. don't eat the grass like the rest of the sheep. i'm gonna hate seeing the sticky from rj that says, "my daughter is sick." then when us tin foil guys chime in to say i told you so, we're gonna be the assholes.

translation: science confuses and frightens me.

RJ
09-19-2009, 12:22 PM
try this one, if any of you get sick, have them stay home. don't eat the grass like the rest of the sheep. i'm gonna hate seeing the sticky from rj that says, "my daughter is sick." then when us tin foil guys chime in to say i told you so, we're gonna be the assholes.


Yeah, that's true. If you said, "I told you so", you would be an asshole. ;)

BucEyedPea
09-19-2009, 12:23 PM
The city of Boston is giving out barcode bracelets to those immunized for this. LMAO Another crises for the totalitarians to exploit for more govt.

I know one person here, who's already had the Swine-Flu...she survived.

kcfanXIII
09-19-2009, 12:23 PM
What of the risk of driving a car? What about the risk of watching a NASCAR race in the front row? You cant live life in a fit of paranoia afraid of every risk. Obviously you should be prudent and think a couple times before diving into a shark tank with blood-soaked beef strapped to your waist, but the "risk" of vaccines is hilariously low, especially compared to the very real benefit.

real benefit? give me a break. they have barely even tested it. no thanks. i won't be getting one, and neither will anybody i actually care about. you take it, thats on you, and i don't want to hear any bitching about side effects. although give it a couple years, and i'm sure the white house will find a way to spend my money to help you idiots that were warned.

kcfanXIII
09-19-2009, 12:24 PM
Yeah, that's true. If you said, "I told you so", you would be an asshole. ;)

and i will;) right after i call you a dumbass for not listening.

RJ
09-19-2009, 12:27 PM
and i will;) right after i call you a dumbass for not listening.


Lighten up, Francis. You and KC stated your opinions, I read them and decided I disagree. Oddly, I felt no need to insult you.

Chiefshrink
09-19-2009, 12:30 PM
Could you possibly try to give even the slightest thought to what you're saying?

You do realize the first "threats" of swine flu started last August? Long before the election.

Long before the election? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm August 2008:hmmm: Wasn't that about prime time when propaganda is thrown around like a food fight going into the November 2008 election?

Understand politics my friend, every administration knows what it wants to do and how they want to do it long before they get into the WH, not to mention who will be appointed in the cabinet and advisory roles(ala czars). Planning starts way ahead of time 1yr or more and with this WH admin it started in 2004.

Demint is right. Healthcare reform is "their baby" they want passed to seize major government control but it will be "Obama's waterloo". If they can prime the pump ahead of time(ala PIG FLU) to con the majority of Americans to thinking this is good for America then they(the 60's Left and their partners in crime MSM-otherwise known as the communist press) then they will trump this garbage up.:shake::rolleyes::shake::rolleyes:

kcfanXIII
09-19-2009, 12:30 PM
translation: science confuses and frightens me.

umm no, not really. squalene caused, or was one of the causes, of the nervous system disorder known as gulf war syndrom. for more information that on this substance:

http://inthesenewtimes.com/2009/07/24/squalene-the-swine-flu-vaccine%E2%80%99s-dirty-little-secret-exposed/

What Squalene Does to Humans Your immune system recognizes squalene as an oil molecule native to your body. It is found throughout your nervous system and brain. In fact, you can consume squalene in olive oil (http://inthesenewtimes.com/sites/articles/archive/2000/01/30/olive-oil-colon-cancer.aspx) and not only will your immune system recognize it, you will also reap the benefits of its antioxidant properties.

The difference between “good” and “bad” squalene is the route by which it enters your body. Injection is an abnormal route of entry which incites your immune system to attack all the squalene in your body, not just the vaccine adjuvant.

Your immune system will attempt to destroy the molecule wherever it finds it, including in places where it occurs naturally, and where it is vital to the health of your nervous system.

Gulf War veterans with Gulf War Syndrome (GWS) received anthrax vaccines which contained squalene. MF59 (the Novartis squalene adjuvant) was an unapproved ingredient in experimental anthrax vaccines (http://inthesenewtimes.com/sites/articles/archive/2001/12/19/anthrax-war2.aspx) and has since been linked to the devastating autoimmune diseases suffered by countless Gulf War vets.

The Department of Defense made every attempt to deny that squalene was indeed an added contaminant in the anthrax vaccine administered to Persian Gulf war military personnel – deployed and non-deployed – as well as participants in the more recent Anthrax Vaccine Immunization Program (AVIP).

However, the FDA discovered the presence of squalene in certain lots of AVIP product. A test was developed to detect anti-squalene antibodies in GWS patients, and a clear link was established between the contaminated product and all the GWS sufferers who had been injected with the vaccine containing squalene.

A study conducted at Tulane Medical School and published in the February 2000 issue of Experimental Molecular Pathology included these stunning statistics:

“ … the substantial majority (95%) of overtly ill deployed GWS patients had antibodies to squalene. All (100%) GWS patients immunized for service in Desert Shield/Desert Storm who did not deploy, but had the same signs and symptoms as those who did deploy, had antibodies to squalene.

In contrast, none (0%) of the deployed Persian Gulf veterans not showing signs and symptoms of GWS have antibodies to squalene. Neither patients with idiopathic autoimmune disease nor healthy controls had detectable serum antibodies to squalene. The majority of symptomatic GWS patients had serum antibodies to squalene.”

According to Dr. Viera Scheibner, Ph.D., a former principle research scientist for the government of Australia:

“… this adjuvant [squalene] contributed to the cascade of reactions called “Gulf War Syndrome,” documented in the soldiers involved in the Gulf War.

The symptoms they developed included arthritis, fibromyalgia, lymphadenopathy, rashes, photosensitive rashes, malar rashes, chronic fatigue, chronic headaches, abnormal body hair loss, non-healing skin lesions, aphthous ulcers, dizziness, weakness, memory loss, seizures, mood changes, neuropsychiatric problems, anti-thyroid effects, anaemia, elevated ESR (erythrocyte sedimentation rate), systemic lupus erythematosus, multiple sclerosis, ALS (amyotrophic lateral sclerosis), Raynaud’s phenomenon, Sjorgren’s syndrome, chronic diarrhoea, night sweats and low-grade fevers.”

kcfanXIII
09-19-2009, 12:32 PM
Lighten up, Francis. You and KC stated your opinions, I read them and decided I disagree. Oddly, I felt no need to insult you.

just letting you know, if you stick your child with this, and you want sympathy when she gets sick, don't expect it from me. in fact just the opposite.

T-post Tom
09-19-2009, 12:32 PM
Didn't you know that all vaccines are a ploy by the U.N.'s secret world government to control population?

KILLER_CLOWN
09-19-2009, 12:34 PM
Didn't you know that all vaccines are a ploy by the U.N.'s secret world government to control population?

Thank you Bill Gates.

kcfanXIII
09-19-2009, 12:36 PM
Didn't you know that all vaccines are a ploy by the U.N.'s secret world government to control population?

not all, but the ones they insist everyone get make me uneasy. the HPV vaccine they're giving to young girls is causing them to be sterile. i know of 3 personally that are suffering with this. we are talking about 19-22 year old girls.

RJ
09-19-2009, 12:49 PM
just letting you know, if you stick your child with this, and you want sympathy when she gets sick, don't expect it from me. in fact just the opposite.


Got it. No sympathy from that kid who told me so.

T-post Tom
09-19-2009, 12:49 PM
Thank you Bill Gates.

Careful there. Your insightful, investigative posts here have caught the ire of a certain group that seeks to hide certain truths. I shouldn't say this... but that parked van that you've noticed on your street lately? It's not really the telephone company. You're on the list. You didn't get this from me, okay?

KILLER_CLOWN
09-19-2009, 12:51 PM
Careful there. Your insightful, investigative posts here have caught the ire of a certain group that seeks to hide certain truths. I shouldn't say this... but that parked van that you've noticed on your street lately? It's not really the telephone company. You're on the list. You didn't get this from me, okay?

Eyes wide shut, i got it.

T-post Tom
09-19-2009, 12:52 PM
not all, but the ones they insist everyone get make me uneasy. the HPV vaccine they're giving to young girls is causing them to be sterile. i know of 3 personally that are suffering with this. we are talking about 19-22 year old girls.

No, it's all vaccines. Vaccines and Church's fried chicken. Their evil knows no bounds.

kcfanXIII
09-19-2009, 12:55 PM
No, it's all vaccines. Vaccines and Church's fried chicken. Their evil knows no bounds.

i notice you conveniently dodge the facts in order to try to call me a nutjob.

banyon
09-19-2009, 01:02 PM
So the risk is low but deadly but the reward is you may get a case that is a little easier to deal with and you may not. Add that to the fact that we DO NOT KNOW long term health effects of getting the shot.

Why aren't you factoring in the risk of being frail, not taking the vaccine, and then being killed by the flu?

T-post Tom
09-19-2009, 01:04 PM
i notice you conveniently dodge the facts in order to try to call me a nutjob.

You're not a nutjob. Or is that just what they want you to think?

alnorth
09-19-2009, 01:16 PM
I think this debate is close to played out here. No one is changing anyone's mind, and this issue isnt even very important at all given how very mild H1N1 is. Given that this appears to be a very weak form of the flu (compared to the seasonal flu), it's not really crazy to decide not to get this flu shot, assuming you dont work in a hospital.

Also, its nice to see this was mostly civil for once. In my experience, most people flip out when their belief for/against vaccines are questioned, but KILLER_CLOWN has been pretty cool, which is kind of rare in this board.

KILLER_CLOWN
09-19-2009, 01:22 PM
I think this debate is close to played out here. No one is changing anyone's mind, and this issue isnt even very important at all given how very mild H1N1 is. Given that this appears to be a very weak form of the flu (compared to the seasonal flu), it's not really crazy to decide not to get this flu shot, assuming you dont work in a hospital.

Also, its nice to see this was mostly civil for once. In my experience, most people flip out when their belief for/against vaccines are questioned, but KILLER_CLOWN has been pretty cool, which is kind of rare in this board.

I've always been Cool i don't throw around racial slurs or offer to shoot planeteers in the back of the head, I do however challenge what is considered to be mainstream thinking and I'm happy doing it. ;)

kcfanXIII
09-20-2009, 02:35 AM
You're not a nutjob. Or is that just what they want you to think?

once again, attacking me, rather than address the fact the vaccine contains adjuvants known to be harmful. but its all good. your opinion matters little to me.


oh shit, i almost forgot to mention, anyone getting the zombie vaccine? i hear that it could be a real threat.