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View Full Version : Chiefs True or false: The Raiders would be division favorites with a legit starting QB


Count Zarth
09-20-2009, 08:54 AM
I think San Diego is soft and the Raiders are really, really talented and really young. I actually quite envy their team. I think Al Davis had done a better job building them than anyone will give him credit for.

The one thing holding them back obviously is Russell.

If the Raiders had drafted Jay Cutler, or even got themselves some scrapheap QB like Rosenfels, do you think they would be division favorites? I think they would not only beat the Chargers like a drum, they would be big-time up and coming contenders in the AFC.

OnTheWarpath58
09-20-2009, 08:55 AM
They could have been a contender for the division had they kept and started Jeff Garcia, IMO.

Especially now, with the Chargers getting bit by the injury bug AGAIN.

The Bad Guy
09-20-2009, 08:56 AM
False.

The Raiders Oline blows. Their receivers are the worst in the NFL.

And no, I don't think any team is going to win with Cutler. The guy isn't a winner. Jaworski was on NFL Radio the other day and was saying how Cutler had the worst mechanics of any starting NFL QB.

The Raiders played a tough game in the opener, but I don't think they hold up. I also fail to see where they are really really young besides with DMAC.

The Bad Guy
09-20-2009, 08:58 AM
They could have been a contender for the division had they kept and started Jeff Garcia, IMO.

Especially now, with the Chargers getting bit by the injury bug AGAIN.

I think the Raiders are a lot further away than just a Jeff Garcia. I think a lot of people are overreacting about the way they played the Chargers at home to start the season.

Marcellus
09-20-2009, 08:58 AM
No. It's the Raiders.

Count Zarth
09-20-2009, 08:59 AM
They could have been a contender for the division had they kept and started Jeff Garcia, IMO.

Especially now, with the Chargers getting bit by the injury bug AGAIN.

Yeah it's really odd they didn't want to give him a shot at beating out Russell. I mean I guess that's what happened.

Even odder because the Raiders have always won with old, retread QBs, apart from Stabler I guess.

Count Zarth
09-20-2009, 09:00 AM
False.

The Raiders Oline blows. Their receivers are the worst in the NFL.
.

They're better than anyone realizes.

Cable did a great job with them.

They were a good run blocking line last year for sure. I think Mario Henderson is really underrated at LT.

Receivers are unproven but there's talent there.

OnTheWarpath58
09-20-2009, 09:00 AM
I think the Raiders are a lot further away than just a Jeff Garcia. I think a lot of people are overreacting about the way they played the Chargers at home to start the season.

I'm not saying they would be an AFC contender.

Winning the AFC West isn't exactly a tall order, especially now that the Chargers have lost 2 of their better players to injury already.

I think a lot of people overreact about the talent level of the Raiders because they are the Raiders.

soundmind
09-20-2009, 09:01 AM
Unfortunately true. Their defense is just good enough, and I'm sorry but the addition of Seymour scares me.

They are lacking I think in the WR department, but in my mind, a truly great QB nullifies the need for a great WR. An adequate corp of wideouts become phenomenal at the end of perfect throws.

Skeletor will keep them in mediocrity though, so no worries.

Marcellus
09-20-2009, 09:02 AM
I'm not saying they would be an AFC contender.

Winning the AFC West isn't exactly a tall order, especially now that the Chargers have lost 2 of their better players to injury already.

I think a lot of people overreact about the talent level of the Raiders because they are the Raiders.

Could be another 8-8 division winner.

Yet another reason the Chiefs situation is frustrating. Fielding a decent team we would have a shot at the division last year and this one.

FU Carl!:cuss:

Short Leash Hootie
09-20-2009, 09:03 AM
we better hope JeMarcus makes a bunch of mistakes today or we are going to lose by 10+

OnTheWarpath58
09-20-2009, 09:05 AM
we better hope JeMarcus makes a bunch of mistakes today or we are going to lose by 10+

Nah, it should be a close game regardless. These division games usually end up being pretty tight.

Well, except last year at Arrowhead.

DeezNutz
09-20-2009, 09:07 AM
we better hope JeMarcus makes a bunch of mistakes today or we are going to lose by 10+

He's irrelevant.

As htisimasiiogages pointed out earlier this week, JR threw for only 55 yards last year at Arrowhead.

Short Leash Hootie
09-20-2009, 09:08 AM
Nah, it should be a close game regardless. These division games usually end up being pretty tight.

Well, except last year at Arrowhead.

If anyone thought Baltimore had a running game...

Oakland will show you what a real running game is...

Darren McFadden is AP lite...he is just WAITING to bust out. I could see a big one from McFadden today...I'm not only talking big day, I'm talking about a few big plays.

He's their X factor...if McFadden goes for 150...or if Bush/McFadden combine for 200...no way we're winning...and I doubt it will even be close...and I wouldn't be surprised at all about 200+ rushing yards with those two today.

Fortunately for us...I think the Ravens have one of the best offensive lines in the NFL with Oher at RT...so I think we might get a little better pass rush today...

So if Russel throws mistakes all day he might keep us in the game.

I'm just excited for Cassel and to see what he brings to the table. Perfect beginning for him...home opener...Raider week...packed house...

OnTheWarpath58
09-20-2009, 09:09 AM
He's irrelevant.

As htisimasiiogages pointed out earlier this week, JR threw for only 55 yards last year at Arrowhead.

Yep.

Stop the running game = odds of winning increase dramatically.

Get run over roughshod like last year = odds of winning are slim/none.

Short Leash Hootie
09-20-2009, 09:10 AM
He's irrelevant.

As htisimasiiogages pointed out earlier this week, JR threw for only 55 yards last year at Arrowhead.

what I'm saying iiiiis....

the only way we hope to win, is if he makes mistakes...

How many turnovers did he have last year against us that game?

He needs to turn the ball over if we want to win...

DeezNutz
09-20-2009, 09:11 AM
Yep.

Stop the running game = odds of winning increase dramatically.

Get run over roughshod like last year = odds of winning are slim/none.

There's no big mystery this week.

The Raiders, while successful, are the epitome of one-dimensional.

Thus this is a great week to evaluate our coaching.

dirk digler
09-20-2009, 09:11 AM
Yep.

Stop the running game = odds of winning increase dramatically.

Get run over roughshod like last year = odds of winning are slim/none.

I agree. If the Chiefs were smart and I think Haley is he is going to load the box up and force Russell to throw or sell out to stop the run.

The Bad Guy
09-20-2009, 09:11 AM
If anyone thought Baltimore had a running game...

Oakland will show you what a real running game is...

Darren McFadden is AP lite...he is just WAITING to bust out. I could see a big one from McFadden today...I'm not only talking big day, I'm talking about a few big plays.

He's their X factor...if McFadden goes for 150...or if Bush/McFadden combine for 200...no way we're winning...and I doubt it will even be close...and I wouldn't be surprised at all about 200+ rushing yards with those two today.

Fortunately for us...I think the Ravens have one of the best offensive lines in the NFL with Oher at RT...so I think we might get a little better pass rush today...

So if Russel throws mistakes all day he might keep us in the game.

I'm just excited for Cassel and to see what he brings to the table. Perfect beginning for him...home opener...Raider week...packed house...

I'll take the Ravens ground game 100 days straight before I even think about the Raiders.

JuicesFlowing
09-20-2009, 09:13 AM
Never, NEVER underestimate the Al Davis factor ....

DeezNutz
09-20-2009, 09:13 AM
what I'm saying iiiiis....

the only way we hope to win, is if he makes mistakes...

How many turnovers did he have last year against us that game?

He needs to turn the ball over if we want to win...

JR had 0 turnovers. He was 6-17 for 55.

Bush and McFadden each put the ball on the ground, though. 2 fumbles lost, and we still got smoked 23-8.

In fairness, we countered with 2 INTs of our own.

Short Leash Hootie
09-20-2009, 09:15 AM
I'll take the Ravens ground game 100 days straight before I even think about the Raiders.

Ray Rice's are a dime a dozen...

Darren McFadden's are special...

He has yet to show what he has...but he has it...he's one big game (today) away from bursting into AP territory (after the season)...

I'm not saying he's quite as good as AP, but I bet when this season is said and done and he eases into his role as featured back, he has a few AP-esque games...they need to take the training wheels off of him and let him get 25 touches a game...he was rolling against the Chargers before his fumble and then for some reason Cable steered away from McFadden/Bush and had JeMarcus start winging the ball all over the place for some reason.

the Talking Can
09-20-2009, 09:15 AM
if the raiders had a cyborg Qb they'd be a 4th seed in march madness

Short Leash Hootie
09-20-2009, 09:16 AM
JR had 0 turnovers. He was 6-17 for 55.

Bush and McFadden each put the ball on the ground, though. 2 fumbles lost, and we still got smoked 23-8.

In fairness, we countered with 2 INTs of our own.

Yeah, you are pretty much proving my point here...

They won. JeMarcus did nothing...including not turning the ball over.

For us to win today, I think we need two really, really, really boneheaded plays from him and maybe one good bounce...and a 45 yard Succop field goal at the buzzer.

DeezNutz
09-20-2009, 09:20 AM
Yeah, you are pretty much proving my point here...

They won. JeMarcus did nothing...including not turning the ball over.

For us to win today, I think we need two really, really, really boneheaded plays from him and maybe one good bounce...and a 45 yard Succop field goal at the buzzer.

But we got those boneheaded plays from their backs last year. Are you of the belief that we need both their RBs and their QB to shit the bed to have a chance?

That's confidence. LMAO

Go, Chiefs!

the Talking Can
09-20-2009, 09:23 AM
all this talk about how one of the worst teams in the league last year ran all over us, and won without a QB basically, makes me extra angry that we used the draft to fix our DL.....

Short Leash Hootie
09-20-2009, 09:23 AM
But we got those boneheaded plays from their backs last year. Are you of the belief that we need both their RBs and their QB to shit the bed to have a chance?

That's confidence. LMAO

Go, Chiefs!

I am not saying shit about the RB's...

this isn't last year buddy.

I'm saying THIS year...we need to force Russel (who is terrible) to generate some points for us if we want to have a chance.

RJ
09-20-2009, 09:27 AM
Yes, they would contend for the division with a better QB. Not because they would be good, but because the division is bad.

dirk digler
09-20-2009, 09:28 AM
all this talk about how one of the worst teams in the league last year ran all over us, and won without a QB basically, makes me extra angry that we used the draft to fix our DL.....

I don't know if the Raiders will run over us or not. People tend to forget the Chiefs went into their house late in the year and slowed down their running game and beat them.

But this is a different year with a different coaching staff that hopefully is alot smarter than Herm's staff.

The Bad Guy
09-20-2009, 09:29 AM
Ray Rice's are a dime a dozen...

Darren McFadden's are special...

He has yet to show what he has...but he has it...he's one big game (today) away from bursting into AP territory (after the season)...

I'm not saying he's quite as good as AP, but I bet when this season is said and done and he eases into his role as featured back, he has a few AP-esque games...they need to take the training wheels off of him and let him get 25 touches a game...he was rolling against the Chargers before his fumble and then for some reason Cable steered away from McFadden/Bush and had JeMarcus start winging the ball all over the place for some reason.

Let's let him stay healthy for a full season before we declare him the next coming of the bets player in the NFL.

The problem with your argument is that you're basically discrediting how great of a run blocking team the Ravens are.

They are very, very good.

the Talking Can
09-20-2009, 09:31 AM
I don't know if the Raiders will run over us or not. People tend to forget the Chiefs went into their house late in the year and slowed down their running game and beat them.

of course they will, they have AP at running back, or his clone apparently....they will ass rape us up and down the field, things always happen exactly as predicted in pregames....just like last week when all of our QBs were going to be injured and McNabb went out with broken ribs...just like all of the planet predicted...

Tiger's Fan
09-20-2009, 09:32 AM
i think a lot of people are overreacting to an equally crappy team that played well enough to lose to a severely declining team last week. The drooling over the faiders D in last weeks gamethread was downright pathetic. Some people even think their D is better than the Ravens. Some people are dumb.

Short Leash Hootie
09-20-2009, 09:33 AM
Let's let him stay healthy for a full season before we declare him the next coming of the bets player in the NFL.

The problem with your argument is that you're basically discrediting how great of a run blocking team the Ravens are.

They are very, very good.

I didn't discredit them, I said they had one of the best lines in the NFL...

But they weren't effective in the running game against us until we were entirely worn out down the stretch...

Had we had ANY drives that gave our defense a rest, they may never have gotten it going on the ground.

They did, however, give Flacco all day on almost every single snap...

OnTheWarpath58
09-20-2009, 09:33 AM
i think a lot of people are overreacting to an equally crappy team that played well enough to lose to a severely declining team last week. The drooling over the faiders D in last weeks gamethread was downright pathetic. Some people even think their D is better than the Ravens. Some people are dumb.

Holy shit.

Who said that?

the Talking Can
09-20-2009, 09:36 AM
what would most funny, is if we actually won


all week we've heard how amazing the raiders are...like bad ass...but the minute we win, all we'll hear is about how terrible the raiders are and how the win means nothing....

SNR
09-20-2009, 09:36 AM
Seymour makes their D a huge strength for that team. The offense is offensive.

Short Leash Hootie
09-20-2009, 09:38 AM
what would most funny, is if we actually won


all week we've heard how amazing the raiders are...like bad ass...but the minute we win, all we'll hear is about how terrible the raiders are and how the win means nothing....

I would love a win...

I would probably enjoy a stellar performance from Cassel more than a win, though.

doomy3
09-20-2009, 09:40 AM
I do think the Raiders are a pretty good team and their defense looked really strong last week, as did their running game.

Jamarcus Russell is absolutely horrible, and if you think about how good this team could be if they had made a better pick there, and instead of DHB this year, they could be really really good. However, as long as Al Davis is calling the shots, I don't think I can take them seriously because he will continue to make bad decisions.

dirk digler
09-20-2009, 09:56 AM
what would most funny, is if we actually won


all week we've heard how amazing the raiders are...like bad ass...but the minute we win, all we'll hear is about how terrible the raiders are and how the win means nothing....

Yep exactly right. If the Chiefs make any good plays it is because of luck don't forget that.

DeezNutz
09-20-2009, 09:58 AM
Yep exactly right. If the Chiefs make any good plays it is because of luck don't forget that.

:rolleyes:

That's exactly what was said.

The Bad Guy
09-20-2009, 10:01 AM
what would most funny, is if we actually won


all week we've heard how amazing the raiders are...like bad ass...but the minute we win, all we'll hear is about how terrible the raiders are and how the win means nothing....

I'll admit, it is hilarious watch a lot of people on here slobbering all over the Raiders just because of their game against the Chargers.

Your post is spot on. If the Chiefs win, it's no big deal. If the Raiders win, they are obviously incredible and the Chiefs would be so lucky to have those talented players.

What also is funny was how everyone laughed at the Seymour deal. Everyone. Now that he has a good game, everyone is now praising Oakland. WTF gives? He was a very good player prior to the trade.

The Bad Guy
09-20-2009, 10:02 AM
I do think the Raiders are a pretty good team and their defense looked really strong last week, as did their running game.
.

Pretty good team????

What the fuck are you guys smoking?

The Raiders have a decent-good running attack, along with the very good DE and a shutdown corner.

When did that constitute being a pretty good team?

dirk digler
09-20-2009, 10:02 AM
:rolleyes:

That's exactly what was said.

Maybe not by you but others said it. That is not some kind of shocking statement I have been here for 6 years and I hear the same shit every season.

DeezNutz
09-20-2009, 10:03 AM
Maybe not by you but others said it. That is not some kind of shocking statement I have been here for 6 years and I hear the same shit every season.

Well, I'll give that.

People say dumbass shit all the time.

JASONSAUTO
09-20-2009, 10:05 AM
all this talk about how one of the worst teams in the league last year ran all over us, and won without a QB basically, makes me extra angry that we used the draft to fix our DL.....

ROFL

JASONSAUTO
09-20-2009, 10:07 AM
I didn't discredit them, I said they had one of the best lines in the NFL...

But they weren't effective in the running game against us until we were entirely worn out down the stretch...

Had we had ANY drives that gave our defense a rest, they may never have gotten it going on the ground.

They did, however, give Flacco all day on almost every single snap...

did you even watch the game? their run game wasnt effective until we were worn out? they didnt even TRY to run the ball until we were worn out

doomy3
09-20-2009, 10:07 AM
Pretty good team????

What the **** are you guys smoking?

The Raiders have a decent-good running attack, along with the very good DE and a shutdown corner.

When did that constitute being a pretty good team?

They have a very strong running game. They have the best corner in the game, and now their DLine is a strength of theirs as well. The Seymour deal wasn't a good deal for them at all, but it does make them better this year. Just because someone says that Seymour upgrades their team this year doesn't mean that suddenly people are saying it was a good deal for them. Demarcus Ware would upgrade our team. Doesn't mean I would trade our next 5 firsts for him.

The Raiders have a very fast secondary, a good TE, really good backs, a good run blocking OLine, a strong OLine, and decent linebackers. They aren't trash.

3rd&48ers
09-20-2009, 10:08 AM
No way in hell, The Raiders have no idea how to even finish a game yet...

Watch and see, say the Raiders are up today on the Chiefs 20-7 in the 4th qtr.. I will guarantee you the Chiefs will be driving for the win before the game is over...
I don't plan on switching teams but I have never in my life seen a squad capable of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory more than my Raiders since Gannon retired.

Short Leash Hootie
09-20-2009, 10:09 AM
did you even watch the game? their run game wasnt effective until we were worn out? they didnt even TRY to run the ball until we were worn out

I don't get your point?

JASONSAUTO
09-20-2009, 10:11 AM
I don't get your point?

you are acting like they couldnt get it going, thats wrong. they didnt try. once they tried they ran the ball well. see the point?

alanm
09-20-2009, 10:12 AM
Ray Rice's are a dime a dozen...

Darren McFadden's are special...

He has yet to show what he has...but he has it...he's one big game (today) away from bursting into AP territory (after the season)...

I'm not saying he's quite as good as AP, but I bet when this season is said and done and he eases into his role as featured back, he has a few AP-esque games...they need to take the training wheels off of him and let him get 25 touches a game...he was rolling against the Chargers before his fumble and then for some reason Cable steered away from McFadden/Bush and had JeMarcus start winging the ball all over the place for some reason..he was rolling against the Chargers before his fumble and then for some reason Cable steered away from McFadden/Bush and had JeMarcus start winging the ball all over the place for some reason.Have you pondered the thought that Cable may believe that McFadden is fumble prone?

The Bad Guy
09-20-2009, 10:13 AM
They have a very strong running game. They have the best corner in the game, and now their DLine is a strength of theirs as well. The Seymour deal wasn't a good deal for them at all, but it does make them better this year. Just because someone says that Seymour upgrades their team this year doesn't mean that suddenly people are saying it was a good deal for them. Demarcus Ware would upgrade our team. Doesn't mean I would trade our next 5 firsts for him.

The Raiders have a very fast secondary, a good TE, really good backs, a good run blocking OLine, a strong OLine, and decent linebackers. They aren't trash.

A strong Oline?

Really?

They ran the ball effectively ONE GAME.

Some of you need to put the crack down.

Short Leash Hootie
09-20-2009, 10:14 AM
you are acting like they couldnt get it going, thats wrong. they didnt try. once they tried they ran the ball well. see the point?

No...I don't.

The only time we made stops in the 1st half was when they wasted 1st or 2nd down running the ball instead of exposing the middle of the field that none of our linebackers/safeties could cover.

They didn't run because it wasn't efficient for them...when you get 15 yards a pop throwing the ball, why run?

Oakland probably doesn't have that capability with JeMarcus Russell...who is about as accurate as me playing drunk darts aiming for the dart board.

Short Leash Hootie
09-20-2009, 10:15 AM
A strong Oline?

Really?

They ran the ball effectively ONE GAME.

Some of you need to put the crack down.

watch how good McFadden is today...he has INSANE talent

JASONSAUTO
09-20-2009, 10:18 AM
No...I don't.

The only time we made stops in the 1st half was when they wasted 1st or 2nd down running the ball instead of exposing the middle of the field that none of our linebackers/safeties could cover.

They didn't run because it wasn't efficient for them...when you get 15 yards a pop throwing the ball, why run?

Oakland probably doesn't have that capability with JeMarcus Russell...who is about as accurate as me playing drunk darts aiming for the dart board.

my point. they DIDNT TRY TO RUN. you avt as though if they would have really tried it wouldnt have worked. you are underestimating the ravens IMO. you say that the only stops we made were when we stopped the run on 1st or 2nd, thatsw wrong. they started out with what 14 straight passes. did they score a td on both drives?

Short Leash Hootie
09-20-2009, 10:20 AM
my point. they DIDNT TRY TO RUN. you avt as though if they would have really tried it wouldnt have worked. you are underestimating the ravens IMO. you say that the only stops we made were when we stopped the run on 1st or 2nd, thatsw wrong. they started out with what 14 straight passes. did they score a td on both drives?

a field goal and a TD ROFL

and they owned themselves with penalties on the FG drive...

our first stop was a direct result of them trying to run and Dorsey getting a nice stop...

the blocked punt drive came when they tried to run...

on the FG drive...DJ (our 3rd string linebacker for some reason) forced good pressure to get a stop on 3rd down...

Other than that...they didn't start really putting the ball on the ground until we were worn out...

That was their gameplan...they knew their best chance to win was to expose our awful pass rush and let Flacco beat us...not Ray Rice.

Oakland is going to have to beat us on the ground...if we stall their run game, we're going to win by double digits...

doomy3
09-20-2009, 10:23 AM
A strong Oline?

Really?

They ran the ball effectively ONE GAME.

Some of you need to put the crack down.

Their Oline IN THE RUNNING GAME is a strength of theirs.

Look, I'm not one of these guys on here who pumps up other teams and is negative about the Chiefs. Everyone should know this by reading my posts. I am just calling this how I see it. The Raiders aren't nearly as bad as you are making them out to be, and I think if we win, this will be a very good win for us, especially considering some of their strengths match up very well with our weaknesses.

JASONSAUTO
09-20-2009, 10:28 AM
a field goal and a TD ROFL

and they owned themselves with penalties on the FG drive...

our first stop was a direct result of them trying to run and Dorsey getting a nice stop...

the blocked punt drive came when they tried to run...

on the FG drive...DJ (our 3rd string linebacker for some reason) forced good pressure to get a stop on 3rd down...

Other than that...they didn't start really putting the ball on the ground until we were worn out...

That was their gameplan...they knew their best chance to win was to expose our awful pass rush and let Flacco beat us...not Ray Rice.

Oakland is going to have to beat us on the ground...if we stall their run game, we're going to win by double digits...

hootie the run game takes patience to get going usually. again you have made my point. it wasnt effective BECAUSE they didnt even try to make it effective.

The Bad Guy
09-20-2009, 10:29 AM
watch how good McFadden is today...he has INSANE talent

I've watched him just about every week he's played. He hits the hole hard. He has speed, but he's not top 5 talent in the NFL.

OnTheWarpath58
09-20-2009, 10:30 AM
A strong Oline?

Really?

They ran the ball effectively ONE GAME.

Some of you need to put the crack down.

Frank, they were a Top 10 rushing team last year as well.

This isn't a new phenomenon.

The Bad Guy
09-20-2009, 10:30 AM
Their Oline IN THE RUNNING GAME is a strength of theirs.

Look, I'm not one of these guys on here who pumps up other teams and is negative about the Chiefs. Everyone should know this by reading my posts. I am just calling this how I see it. The Raiders aren't nearly as bad as you are making them out to be, and I think if we win, this will be a very good win for us, especially considering some of their strengths match up very well with our weaknesses.

So their running game is strong based on one game against the Chargers?

Last year, they didn't have much of a ground game.

chief52
09-20-2009, 10:46 AM
The Raiders are a long way from being a good team. They have as many holes as the Chiefs.

The Chiefs future looks so much brighter with Haley and Pioli than the Raiders' does with Al Davis at the controls. The Raider franchise is in shambles.

doomy3
09-20-2009, 10:51 AM
So their running game is strong based on one game against the Chargers?

Last year, they didn't have much of a ground game.

Yeah, I guess you could say that.

If you don't consider a top 10 running game last year to be strong.