View Full Version : Chiefs Chiefs who made the first cut to the Hall of Fame

Rain Man
09-20-2009, 09:54 AM

Guys who have made the first cut of 131 names. We can play a guessing game. Ready?

Person 1. Cover guy, beautiful athlete to watch, kick blocker extraordinaire. Finished his career on the Dark Side.

Albert Lewis. If you missed this one, stop playing right now and go study Chiefs history.

Person 2. With the Chiefs in the glory years of the AFL, but became more famous with another team, and then eventually became well known for trading away yet another team's first-round picks.

Bobby Beathard, who apparently had a short stint with the Chiefs in 1966 and 1967. This was a hard one.

Person 3. As a high first-round draft pick in the 80s, this lineman and pass rusher actually achieved greater fame with another AFC West team. Chiefs fans remember him most for a crushing hit on a Raiders quarterback.

Leslie O'Neal. I bet you guessed Neil Smith, right? O'Neal was the guy who destroyed Jeff George on a scramble on (I think) a Monday night game by hitting him from the blind side as George was cutting. Beautiful, beautiful hit.

Person 4. Tough six-time pro bowler who clogged the middle four times for the Chiefs during his career. Also played for another AFC West team, though his fame was really in the Rust Belt. His brother was also an NFL player who was more famous but yet is not in the Hall of Fame and didn't make the list of finalists.

Michael Dean Perry. He clogged the middle for us four times because he had four career tackles with the Chiefs. Trick question.

Person 5. This hard-working running back started his career with a team that now plays in the AFC North, and finished his career in Kansas City. In a career that spanned 11 seasons start to finish, he ended up with 2 pro bowls and over 7,000 rushing yards.

Mike Pruitt, of course, who played most of his career with the Browns but finished up with 2 years in Kansas City. Who'd you think we were talking about?

Person 6. Despite his non-bodybuilder frame, this Chief is 23rd on the all-time list for games played in the NFL, yet still ranks behind another former Chief at his same position. He almost won a playoff game for us once.

Nick Lowery, whose 260 games played fell just short of Jan Stenerud's 263.

Person 7. Okay, you ready? Ready? It's hard to envision this guy without the Chiefs-Raiders rivalry coming to mind. His first name has four letters and his last name has six letters, and your favorite appearance of his was probably in the Super Bowl. Yes, my fellow Chiefs fans, it's...

Rich Gannon. (Sigh.)

On another note, how does six-time pro bowler Deron Cherry not make this list? The safeties on the list are:

Steve Atwater
Joey Browner
LeRoy Butler
Kenny Easley
Carnell Lake
Donnie Shell
Darren Woodson

I've got no particular issue with Atwater (Bronco aside), Browner, and Easley, but Deron is definitely more worthy than Butler, Lake, Shell, and Woodson. Plus, he's stayed involved in the league as a minority owner of the Jaguars. Who did he make mad that's keeping him out?

Rain Man
09-26-2009, 12:50 PM
I'm going to wantonly, brazenly, and shamelessly bring this to the top since it's a big, big deal and no one commented on it. Plus, there's a lot more conversation fodder here.

Let's start with quarterback talk. There are 9 quarterbacks in the semifinals. I would rank them like this:

Randall Cunningham
Ken Anderson
Boomer Esiason
Jim Plunkett
Phil Simms
Joe Theismann
Rich Gannon
Danny White
Doug Williams

Cunningham is the only deserving candidate, in my opinion. Maybe Ken Anderson in a really weak year.

Any Chiefs get overlooked in this group? Sadly, I would say no. I can't make an argument for a Chiefs QB over any of these guys.

Rain Man
09-26-2009, 01:00 PM
Now let's talk running backs. 14 running backs are in the semis. I would rank them as follows:

Emmitt Smith
Herschel Walker
Roger Craig
Terrell Davis
Ottis Anderson
Gerald Riggs
George Rogers
Ricky Watters
Larry Centers
Eddie George
Eric Metcalf (also WR)
Mike Pruitt
Leroy Hoard
Brian Mitchell (also KR/PR) - remember, this is only counting him as a RB.

Smith is obvious. Herschel gets a bad rap for the trade, but people forget that he was actually considered to be worth that trade. Guy was really, really good.

Craig will get in at some point, probably before Herschel, and probably deserves it, but barely.

T. Davis was dominant for a few years. Probably won't get in unless there's an extremely weak year somewhere down the line. I think he was a system guy and doesn't deserve it.

Anderson was good, but doesn't rise to HoF level in my opinion. Riggs and Rogers were both workhorses who were good but not great.

Watters is interesting, because he should be #2 based on accomplishments. I think his attitude will keep him out, and it should. He wasn't a good representative of the game.

Centers? Fine receiving fullback, but he's an also-ran.

The rest are not close. Leroy Hoard? Seriously?

As for Chiefs who should've made this list, one can argue that Kimble Anders should be on it if Larry Centers made it. I'd rather have Kimble at fullback, and he's got a fistful of pro bowls.

Okoye was essentially a more dominant Riggs and Rogers, but didn't have the longevity. He's a more extreme version of T. Davis - dominant, but for too short a period to be more than an also-ran.

09-26-2009, 01:03 PM
I was a huge Randall Cunningham fan. I even bought his jersey in KC before my first ever Chiefs game (1993 vs ... Chicago Bears) ...

Rain Man
09-26-2009, 01:12 PM
Wide Receivers. Here's the list, and it's a pretty good one, though somewhat skewed by the change in the passing game over the past two decades. My order is:

Jerry Rice
Cris Carter
Cliff Branch
Herman Moore
Roy Green
Sterling Sharpe
Tim Brown
Stanley Morgan
Andre Reed
Irving Fryar
Henry Ellard
Gary Clark

I'll bet my sig rights for a month that Rice gets in. Carter should be a lock, too, and maybe it's just the drug problems keeping him out.

After that, I would rank Cliff Branch third. Yes, he was a Raider and therefore a cheater, but he was a legitimately scary receiver. Moore, Brown, and Sharpe are all guys that got tons of catches, but I would put Moore on top since he was more of a big-play guy. Sharpe wasn't a big-play guy, but he was dominant in a quiet kind of way. Brown was boring and lasted forever - quick, name three big plays by Tim Brown in his career. I think two-way player Roy Green was much more dominant than Brown, and probably required as much game planning as Sharpe.

I like Stanley Morgan a lot and would like to rank him higher, but it's stiff competition.

Andre Reed? Whatever. Lots of catches, I guess, and had to make up for Thurman Thomas' regular big-game chokes.

Fryar and Ellard shouldn't be considered, and Gary Clark is barely a footnote.

Chiefs who should be considered are .... OTIS TAYLOR, dummies! OTIS TAYLOR. Taylor required game planning as much as any of those guys other than Rice and Carter. I'd put him up there with Branch - he got 1,400 receiving yards one year when bump and run was still in place. Stupid, stupid hall of fame voters.

Next up would be Stephone Paige, but he probably is about the Gary Clark level without the rings.

Rain Man
09-26-2009, 01:16 PM
Tight Ends, in my order of deservedness:

Mark Bavaro
Shannon Sharpe
Ben Coates
Todd Christensen
Russ Francis
Frank Wycheck

Tell me any team that wouldn't want Mark Bavaro on it. Complete player all around. May not have the glorified receiving stats as some others, but clearly the best tight end on this list.

The equine guy is second, based on longevity and receiving stats, even though he was just a wide receiver labeled as a tight end.

Coates was more dominant than the equine and a better player, but didn't last long enough.

Francis and Christenson were short-term good players, though Christenson was so annoying I can't imagine any team wanting him in their locker room, so I don't think he'll ever make it.

Wycheck. Um, okay.

On the Chiefs front, Arbanas should be on the list ahead of Wycheck and Christenson, but wouldn't go beyond this round.

Rain Man
09-26-2009, 01:18 PM
I was a huge Randall Cunningham fan. I even bought his jersey in KC before my first ever Chiefs game (1993 vs ... Chicago Bears) ...

Yeah, he fits all the criteria for me. Fun to watch, dominant in his day. If he had ever had skill position players around him, he'd have a couple of rings. The Minnesota playoff fail had to be brutal for him.

09-26-2009, 01:19 PM
i thought joe theisman was in the hall of fame. damn i would have lost that bet

thurman merman
09-26-2009, 01:21 PM
i got albert lewis and nick lowery. that is all.

Rain Man
09-26-2009, 01:25 PM

Joe Jacoby, T
Mike Kenn, T
Jim Lachey, T
Tony Boselli, T
Lomas Brown, T
Jim Covert, T
Korey Stringer, T

Jacoby deserves it. He was dominant for Washington, and easily their best lineman during that era. He should go in.

I'd give Kenn a slight nod over Lachey and Boselli just on longevity, but he was never dominant. Boselli was dominant, but not for very long, and Lachey falls in the middle: better than Kenn, but not as long. Longer than Boselli, but not as good. I think Kenn may deserve it, and the other two are bridesmaids.

Lomas Brown hung around forever, but that's it.

Covert was fine, Hall of Good material.

Korey Stringer - okay, we gave the Downs Syndrome kid a touchdown and all feel good about ourselves. Whatever.

On the Chiefs front, Jim Tyrer was the Jacoby of his day, and also won big games. He should be #1 on this entire list. John Alt deserves consideration above all but Jacoby and Kenn, but got his credit stolen by Richmond Webb for too long. Roaf's not eligible yet, of course. The Chiefs are getting screwed at this position.

Rain Man
09-26-2009, 01:26 PM
i thought joe theisman was in the hall of fame. damn i would have lost that bet

He's not, but they do have his lower leg in one of the exhibit rooms.

09-26-2009, 01:26 PM

Rain Man
09-26-2009, 01:30 PM

Chris Hinton, G/T
Max Montoya, G
Russ Grimm, G
Steve Wisniewski, G

None of these guys deserve it. Hinton is the closest, and may get points because he was man enough to go to the Colts when the crybaby Elway baby pouted and stomped and wouldn't do the right thing. Hinton may get in some day.

Grimm is close, the second-best guy on the Hogs after Jacoby, but it was a distant second. He might get in on Jacoby's coat tails.

Montoya was fine, not great.

Wisniewski had a lot of pro bowls, but was such a dirty player that he won't get the votes he needs.

On the Chiefs, Ed Budde clearly should be at the top of this list, or at list neck and neck with Hinton. He produced more. While I like Dave Szott, he's second on our list and wouldn't make this list.

Rain Man
09-26-2009, 01:33 PM

Dermontti Dawson, C
Kent Hull, C
Jay Hilgenberg, C

Dawson probably deserves it. He was good for a long time.

Hull? Nah. He was a good player on a strong team. Hilgenberg is a seat filler in this vote, nothing more.

Rudnay should be slightly below Dawson on this list. He was a pro bowler several times on very weak teams, which says a lot. He deserves consideration, but would need a weak year to make it in. Grunhard is probably a step below Hull. Chiefs are getting screwed.

Rain Man
09-26-2009, 01:38 PM

Ray Guy, P
Gary Anderson, K
Nick Lowery, K
Reggie Roby, P
Steve Tasker, ST/WR
Brian Mitchell, KR
Eric Metcalf, KR

I know he's a Raider, but there should be a punter in the Hall of Fame, and Guy is the obvious candidate. He ought to be in there.

Gary Anderson was always a distant second to Morten, but probably makes it based on longevity. I actually prefer Nick Lowery, but Anderson lasted so much longer I'll give him the nod. Anderson will get in at some point, while Nick won't.

I'm a big Roby fan, but he won't get in until Guy gets in, and even then it'll be difficult.

The two kick returners are non-candidates to me. Mitchell is proof that if you return 8 zillion kicks, 10 of them will go all the way. Whatever. Metcalf is a better candidate, but isn't really a candidate.

Jerrell Wilson should be a step or two below Guy in this category, and I'd put him slightly below Lowery and above Roby. Dante should be considered above the other returners, but he's not eligible yet. Vanover? Nah, nor Noland Smith or Abner Haynes.

Rain Man
09-26-2009, 01:45 PM

Kenny Easley, S
Joey Browner, S
Steve Atwater, S
Carnell Lake, S/CB
Donnie Shell, S
Darren Woodson, S
LeRoy Butler, S

Easley is one of the best football players I've ever seen. Period. His career was short, but he was the Gale Sayers of safeties. He deserves it, no question, and is the best safety on this list by far.

Browner was a poor man's Easley, but was dominant in his day. You didn't want to face Browner. I don't think he'll make it because he never quite got the rep he deserved, but he's second on this list based on merit.

Atwater was fine. Yawn. I don't think he was better than Browner and was several steps below Easley, but he'll make it before them because he has rings. He was good, but not as good as his reputation.

Lake and Shell and Sharper and Butler were all pretty good, and all deserve to be on this list. One of them might sneak in someday, but I doubt it.

On the Chiefs front, WTF!!!!! We've got Deron Cherry and we've got Johnny Robinson, who should be #2 and #3 on this list. No doubt, no question. Those guys have multiple pro bowls and have 50+ interceptions. I think both should eventually be in the Hall, though neither is a first-ballot guy. But give me Cherry over any of those guys other than Easley.

Rain Man
09-26-2009, 01:52 PM

Aeneas Williams, CB/S
Albert Lewis, CB
Raymond Clayborn, CB
Lester Hayes, CB
Frank Minnifield, CB
Eric Allen, CB
Louis Wright, CB

As much as I'd like to rank Albert first, Aeneas Williams deserves the #1 spot and should go in quickly. He's a true Hall of Famer at this position.

Albert is second, and should go in as well. Not a first-ballot guy, but not that far off.

Clayborn has no shot, but is next on this list.

Hayes was a one-year wonder and dirty player, which should keep him out, but reputation might slide him greasily in.

Minnifield was a strong #2 CB like our Kevin Ross but not as good.

Eric Allen makes this list but should go no further.

Louis Wright? I laugh. I think he and I are tied in career interceptions. Whatever.

For the Chiefs, we have all sorts of candidates. Gary Green, Hasty, Ross, and Dale Carter all jump out. All are borderline candidates at best, but should be mentioned in the same breath as a Minnifield or Clayborn or Hayes. We should have one or two on here, but I bet they're cannibalizing each other's votes.

Rain Man
09-26-2009, 02:02 PM
Outside Linebackers:

Pat Swilling
Kevin Greene (also DE)
Clay Matthews
Rickey Jackson
Matt Blair
Cornelius Bennett
Rod Martin
Darryl Talley
Ken Harvey

We've got some good ones here, the scariest of which was Pat Swilling. That guy was scary good for a while, and if Andre Tippett is in, that paves the way for Pat Swilling. He deserves it.

I beat the drum a lot for Kevin Greene, and think he deserves it, too. I almost rated him above Swilling, but at his peak I think Swilling was the better player. Greene was a great consistent player for a long time, with high productivity, and he should make it.

Clay Matthews was really good, and he played longer than Louix XIV. He probably deserves it, though I don't think he was even the best linebacker on his team for much of that time (Chip Banks). I wouldn't complain if he got in, though, and I bet he does.

Rickey Jackson won't get in if Swilling does. He's a borderline candidate, and I think he falls slightly short.

Matt Blair was solid and good. Not quite good enough, but deserves to be on this list.

Cornelius Bennett was overrated in his day, and is overrated now. Fine linebacker, shouldn't be on this list.

Rod Martin? Really? I never even thought about him when the Chiefs played the Raiders. He wasn't even a consideration, and was never the best linebacker on his own team. Look at Hendricks, Villapiano, even that dirty moron Millen was better than him. I don't get this.

Darryl Talley...big whatever. I don't think he was a top-ten linebacker at any point in his career.

And who the heck is Ken Harvey? I vaguely remember him, just like I vaguely remember Dino Hackett and Tracy Simien. How does he make the list over guys like the 86 Bears linebackers?

As for the Chiefs, we don't have much to add here. Jim Lynch is our best candidate, and while I'd put him above the bottom three on this list, I don't think there's a prayer he would ever get in.

Rain Man
09-26-2009, 02:05 PM
Inside Linebackers:

Karl Mecklenburg
Sam Mills
Hardy Nickerson
Chris Spielman

Okay, I hated him. Despised him, even. But I have to say that Mecklenburg deserves to get in. He gave us fits when we played the Broncos, and he wasn't even a dirty player. I think he should get it.

Mills as well. Great tackler and run stopper, and deserving.

Hardy Nickerson and Chris Spielman are seat fillers. Nothing more, even though I really liked Spielman.

The Chiefs have no one to add to this list. Gary Spani and Tracy Simien don't beat the four on the list.

Rain Man
09-26-2009, 02:13 PM
Defensive Ends:

Richard Dent, DE
Al "Bubba" Baker, DE
Ed “Too Tall” Jones, DE
Charles Haley, DE/LB
Clyde Simmons, DE
Chris Doleman, DE/LB
Dexter Manley, DE
Leslie O’Neal, DE
Charles Mann, DE

This is a weird list, and hard to figure out. I think Dent is deserving of the top spot, and may be a good candidate for the Hall of Fame. He was a complete player.

Bubba Baker will never get in because he doesn't have the reputation, but I think he was the second-best player on this list. Another good complete player.

I'm shocked that Too Tall Jones isn't already in. Another good complete player, and a strong and legitimate candidate.

Then you get into the designated pass rushers. Haley, Doleman, and Manley were all one-dimensional, and Haley was the best of them. Haley might get in, and Doleman's a reasonable candidate but would need a really weak year to get in. Manley shouldn't be on this list.

Clyde Simmons was scary in his prime. I think he doesn't quite beat Haley, but he was pretty good. Possibly one of the best players who won't make the Hall.

Leslie O'Neal could've been at the top of this list if not for that knee injury early on. He was a monster as a rookie, an absolute monster. I don't think he'll move beyond this stage, though, and never will.

I don't get the Charles Mann selection. What's up with that? Pretty average player who benefitted by being across from Manley.

On the Chiefs front, Art Still should be on this list slightly above the Clyde Simmons level. He's deserving of consideration when you look at his production on some astoundingly weak teams.

I think Neil Smith deserves consideration slightly below Still, more at the Chris Doleman level. I'd rather have Neil than Doleman, and maybe Simmons. He's more likely to get consideration than Still because he played on stronger teams, but I think Still is slightly more deserving.

Rain Man
09-26-2009, 02:21 PM
Defensive Tackles:

Joe Klecko, DE/DT/NT
Steve McMichael, DT/NT
Ray Childress, DT/DE
John Randle, DE/DT
Fred Smerlas, NT
Cortez Kennedy, DT
Michael Dean Perry, DT/DE

I like the top four guys on this list, and think Klecko rises to the top. He was a key element of the Sack Exchange, and I think was their best lineman other than a couple of peak years by Gastineau. Is he a Hall of Famer? It's a bit of a stretch, but he might make it.

McMichael is right there with him, and I could easily rank McMichael first. Strong run stuffer, but he played with Hampton and Dent and Singletary and Marshall and Wilson. Most guys would look good in that situation. Deserves consideration.

Childress won't get the respect he deserves. Great complete player, but didn't get the sack stats that some others have gotten. I wouldn't complain if Childress made it. I could even see him ranked 1st.

Randle will get overrated because of his sacks. He was good, borderline deserving candidate, but certainly 4th on this list in my opinion.

Smerlas was a very good nose tackle, but I have a hard time seeing him as an HoFer.

Kennedy was very good and others will rate him higher than me. He never really scared me other than knowing he was a good player. He wasn't a game changer.

Michael Dean Perry? Beh. Short-term wonder. Shouldn't be on this list.

For the Chiefs, Bill Maas should be on this list somewhere around Smerlas or Randle. He was very good for us in his prime. Saleaumua should be somewhere near Smerlas as well. We got screwed at this position, though I don't think either of those guys gets to the top of the list.

Rain Man
09-26-2009, 02:25 PM
Thanks, guys. I had a lot of fun in this thread.