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DeezNutz
09-20-2009, 09:33 PM
Has anyone seen him? His friends and family are worried.

What happened to our impact LB? The sack machine? The difference maker?

Bane
09-20-2009, 09:34 PM
He's prob hanging with his boy Turk Mc Bride.....

Demonpenz
09-20-2009, 09:34 PM
he is on the tailend of is career

chiefbowe82
09-20-2009, 09:35 PM
tambas been everywhere

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2009, 09:36 PM
Ask The Guardian.

I think they're lovers.

Or The Guardian is his stalker.

milkman
09-20-2009, 09:37 PM
I saw him on one play looking up at the sky as he was getting owned.

I'm assuming he was praying.

Count Alex's Losses
09-20-2009, 09:39 PM
Hali got pressure a few times today. He's not totally worthless.

Mario Henderson has owned him two years in a row, though.

I still think he can get 7-8 sacks.

Mecca
09-20-2009, 09:39 PM
Ask The Guardian.

I think they're lovers.

Or The Guardian is his stalker.

But But according to Guardian Tamba will succeed cause he works hard.

aturnis
09-20-2009, 09:40 PM
Has anyone seen him? His friends and family are worried.

What happened to our impact LB? The sack machine? The difference maker?

I'm pretty sure that when the board was high on his play, and his transition, he was still playing the left side with Vrabel on the right. Hali showed some flash, they flipped them, and now neither is playing real well.

milkman
09-20-2009, 09:42 PM
Hali got pressure a few times today. He's not totally worthless.

Mario Henderson has owned him two years in a row, though.

I still think he can get 7-8 sacks.

The number of times that Hali has even sniffed the backfield in these two games can be counted without breaking out your toes to count.

Real pass rushing OLBs consistently get pressure.

Hali still doesn't have the speed to ever effectively be any kind of force.

aturnis
09-20-2009, 09:42 PM
But But according to Guardian Tamba will succeed cause he works hard.

He might make an adequate LOLB next season. Assuming we draft a ROLB or at least pursue one in FA.

Reaper16
09-20-2009, 09:43 PM
Go find Darren McFadden's backside; Tamba will still be staring at it.

Mecca
09-20-2009, 09:45 PM
The number of times that Hali has even sniffed the backfield in these two games can be counted without breaking out your toes to count.

Real pass rushing OLBs consistently get pressure.

Hali still doesn't have the speed to ever effectively be any kind of force.

Not to mention the liability he is in coverage.

chiefbowe82
09-20-2009, 09:46 PM
Go find Darren McFadden's backside; Tamba will still be staring at it.

he's queer?

sedated
09-20-2009, 09:48 PM
I haven't re-watched the game yet, but didn't he get the QB pressure when Flowers had the dropped INT?

DeezNutz
09-20-2009, 09:50 PM
The number of times that Hali has even sniffed the backfield in these two games can be counted without breaking out your toes to count.

Real pass rushing OLBs consistently get pressure.

Hali still doesn't have the speed to ever effectively be any kind of force.

Who would have thunk it? This comes as a complete surprise.

Easy 6
09-20-2009, 09:51 PM
Two games at LB, two, the first of his career & he didnt have a great game...BFD.

Yeah, lets rag on his 'hard work' & 'character', because we all know that doesnt count for anything.

Will he ever be Pro-Bowl?, i dont know...and neither do you. But giving him more than 2 games to decide whether or not he can be productive, shouldnt be asking too much.

Hoover
09-20-2009, 09:51 PM
Some guy named Nick lowered the boom on him, or so i heard.

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2009, 09:51 PM
Will he ever be Pro-Bowl?, i dont know...and neither do you.

LMAO

Seriously?

LMAO

Mecca
09-20-2009, 09:53 PM
Two games at LB, two, the first of his career & he didnt have a great game...BFD.

Yeah, lets rag on his 'hard work' & 'character', because we all know that doesnt count for anything.

Will he ever be Pro-Bowl?, i dont know...and neither do you. But giving him more than 2 games to decide whether or not he can be productive, shouldnt be asking too much.

I don't care how much character and hard work he has, if you don't have the natural gifts to play the position how great a guy you are doesn't matter.

There are great people that post here, I don't want them playing for the Chiefs.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-20-2009, 09:54 PM
Ask The Guardian.

I think they're lovers.

Or The Guardian is his stalker.

First of all, it's TheRetardian.

Secondly, Hootie predicted 10 sacks from Hali...so if he gets to 10 tackles, it should be a success.

DeezNutz
09-20-2009, 09:54 PM
LMAO

Seriously?

LMAO

I'll go ahead and fall on this grenade and take the heat when I'm wrong:

Tamba Hali will never make the Pro-Bowl.

I don't fuck around when I go bold.

milkman
09-20-2009, 09:55 PM
Two games at LB, two, the first of his career & he didnt have a great game...BFD.

Yeah, lets rag on his 'hard work' & 'character', because we all know that doesnt count for anything.

Will he ever be Pro-Bowl?, i dont know...and neither do you. But giving him more than 2 games to decide whether or not he can be productive, shouldnt be asking too much.

The problem is, he simply isn't fast enough to be effective.

I don't have to watch more than two games to see that he doesn't have the speed to get around the corner, and without that speed, any other move he might try is neutralized because the LT doesn't have to concern himself with the corner.

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2009, 09:55 PM
First of all, it's TheRetardian.


LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2009, 09:55 PM
I'll go ahead and fall on this grenade and take the heat when I'm wrong:

Tamba Hali will never make the Pro-Bowl.

I don't fuck around when I go bold.

That's a risky move, my friend.

I'm in awe.

doomy3
09-20-2009, 09:56 PM
It never fails. The threads designed to talk shit on players always end up with the most posts. I'm sure this one is destined for 500 posts, mostly from the people who have already posted in the thread repeating themselves for 450 of them.

DeezNutz
09-20-2009, 09:56 PM
If you're pro life, how can you possibly stand to watch Hali play?

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2009, 09:57 PM
It never fails. The threads designed to talk shit on players always end up with the most posts. I'm sure this one is destined for 500 posts, mostly from the people who have already posted in the thread repeating themselves for 450 of them.

How is it "talking shit" when it's true?

Please explain.

Easy 6
09-20-2009, 09:59 PM
I don't care how much character and hard work he has, if you don't have the natural gifts to play the position how great a guy you are doesn't matter.

There are great people that post here, I don't want them playing for the Chiefs.

If Tamba stays the same, or gets worse as the year progresses...i wont defend him.

Until then, i'll back him...if i'm wrong, so what? i dont feel the need to be right 100% of the time.

doomy3
09-20-2009, 09:59 PM
How is it "talking shit" when it's true?

Please explain.

Is this a serious question?

You don't think someone can talk shit about something that's true?

I'm not sure how to explain this to you.

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2009, 10:00 PM
Is this a serious question?

You don't think someone can talk shit about something that's true?

I'm not sure how to explain this to you.

The guy is not a football player.

He's a guy that plays football.

Regardless, why is it "wrong" to talk about his play?

This is a football forum, correct?

doomy3
09-20-2009, 10:02 PM
The guy is not a football player.

He's a guy that plays football.

Regardless, why is it "wrong" to talk about his play?

This is a football forum, correct?

Didn't say it was wrong. I simply said that you guys get off on any thread that is designed to badmouth a player. It's proven just about every thread on this board. It's fine, I'm just saying that it is very predictable. No one would even have to open this thread and would know who would be dominating the thread with their same rhetoric.

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2009, 10:04 PM
If Tamba stays the same, or gets worse as the year progresses...i wont defend him.

Until then, i'll back him...if i'm wrong, so what? i dont feel the need to be right 100% of the time.

It's isn't a matter of "right or wrong".

It's a matter of being able to recognize whether or not someone is suited to play a particular position and if so, excel or suck at said position.

No one is saying that Hali doesn't work hard. That would be ludicrous. The guy has the heart of a champion.

But, he's flat-footed, not particularly quick, fleet or fast. He doesn't move his hips well and is clueless in coverage. He's not nifty enough to get past an average offensive tackles (much less an elite tackle) and he doesn't have any instincts to speak of, meaning he doesn't read and react well.

Now, if you want to take all of those things as a positive, be my guest.

I'll take them at face value, thank you.

Reaper16
09-20-2009, 10:05 PM
Didn't say it was wrong. I simply said that you guys get off on any thread that is designed to badmouth a player. It's proven just about every thread on this board. It's fine, I'm just saying that it is very predictable. No one would even have to open this thread and would know who would be dominating the thread with their same rhetoric.
Is there an argument to be made in favor of Tamba Hali's play?

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2009, 10:05 PM
Didn't say it was wrong. I simply said that you guys get off on any thread that is designed to badmouth a player. It's proven just about every thread on this board. It's fine, I'm just saying that it is very predictable. No one would even have to open this thread and would know who would be dominating the thread with their same rhetoric.

Water is wet.

It's football forum. We don't have much to praise.

Let's tear a few guys apart. You know, for fun!

We don't have much else to talk about when it comes to the Chiefs.

"Hey, did you see that Beisel guy today!".

Nope.

Doesn't work.

the Talking Can
09-20-2009, 10:05 PM
Hali is not explosive...he doesn't move people...he usually just engages and gets tied up


nice guy, hard worker...that's it

we literally need 4-6 new lbs....i'm not sure we even have backup quality players on our roster right now...ok, a bit of hyperbole, but not much

doomy3
09-20-2009, 10:06 PM
It's isn't a matter of "right or wrong".

It's a matter of being able to recognize whether or not someone is suited to play a particular position and if so, excel or suck at said position.

No one is saying that Hali doesn't work hard. That would be ludicrous. The guy has the heart of a champion.

But, he's flat-footed, not particularly quick, fleet or fast. He doesn't move his hips well and is clueless in coverage. He's not nifty enough to get past an average offensive tackles (much less an elite tackle) and he doesn't have any instincts to speak of, meaning he doesn't read and react well.

Now, if you want to take all of those things as a positive, be my guest.

I'll take them at face value, thank you.


He abused Gaither at least 3 times last week, one resulting in a sack and 2 resulting in holding (tackles from behind) to save Flacco. Jared Gaither is a very good/elite LT.

doomy3
09-20-2009, 10:07 PM
Is there an argument to be made in favor of Tamba Hali's play?

Nope. Maybe we should start a thread about every player on the roster who hasn't been favorable so far.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-20-2009, 10:07 PM
Is this a serious question?

You don't think someone can talk shit about something that's true?

I'm not sure how to explain this to you.

Some fans are sheep. They blindly think every thing the Chiefs do will turn to gold. Others are critical thinkers. They break down and analyze the consequences of the actions made and wonder about their effects.

You are the fan equivalent of a hipster douchebag.

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2009, 10:08 PM
He abused Gaither at least 3 times last week, one resulting in a sack and 2 resulting in holding (tackles from behind) to save Flacco. Jared Gaither is a very good/elite LT.

I disagree.

Gaither's a second year starter that's still finding his way. He was a fifth round supplemental pick and he's on an offensive line with like four other first round choices.

I'd hardly refer to him as "elite".

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-20-2009, 10:09 PM
Hali is not explosive...he doesn't move people...he usually just engages and gets tied up


nice guy, hard worker...that's it

we literally need 4-6 new lbs....i'm not sure we even have backup quality players on our roster right now...ok, a bit of hyperbole, but not much

Every one of our LBs, save DJ, have the ability of core special teams players.

kcpasco
09-20-2009, 10:10 PM
Some fans are sheep. They blindly think every thing the Chiefs do will turn to gold. Others are critical thinkers. They break down and analyze the consequences of the actions made and wonder about their effects.

You are the fan equivalent of a hipster douchebag.

What about the fans who blindly think every thing the Chiefs do will turn to shit?

Easy 6
09-20-2009, 10:11 PM
What about the fans who blindly think every thing the Chiefs do will turn to shit?

:hmmm:

doomy3
09-20-2009, 10:11 PM
I disagree.

Gaither's a second year starter that's still finding his way. He was a fifth round supplemental pick and he's on an offensive line with like four other first round choices.

You don't think Gaither is a very good LT? Alright. We definitely disagree about this. He started 15 games last year and gave up 3 sacks. At 23 years old.

doomy3
09-20-2009, 10:12 PM
Some fans are sheep. They blindly think every thing the Chiefs do will turn to gold. Others are critical thinkers. They break down and analyze the consequences of the actions made and wonder about their effects.

You are the fan equivalent of a hipster douchebag.

OK. I couldn't care less about your opinion, or the pointless drivel in the post I quoted.

the Talking Can
09-20-2009, 10:12 PM
Every one of our LBs, save DJ, have the ability of core special teams players.

yeah, i think so....i won't miss any of them, dj included


they have a lot of work to do to turn that position over

it is currently a much bigger problem than NT, where Tank has at least shown an entry level competence at the position

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2009, 10:13 PM
You don't think Gaither is a very good LT? Alright. We definitely disagree about this. He started 15 games last year and gave up 3 sacks. At 23 years old.

I didn't say he wasn't good. I said he wasn't "elite".

If he played on the Chiefs line, I doubt he'd look as good to you.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-20-2009, 10:13 PM
What about the fans who blindly think every thing the Chiefs do will turn to shit?

I've yet to see someone who bashes every move the Chiefs make.

I've seen Mecca, milkman, me, etc. praise various moves and signings, and many of us were ecstatic with the 2008 draft as it happened, and we are considered the most negative of the bunch.

That's a shit rebuttal.

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2009, 10:14 PM
What about the fans who blindly think every thing the Chiefs do will turn to shit?

Like who?

doomy3
09-20-2009, 10:15 PM
FWIW, I don't disagree with needing upgrades at all of our LB positions, and hopefully within the next year or two, the whole unit will be replaced. However, it is what it is. What's the point in continually beating this dead horse? Is this one of those "I told you so threads?" If so, congrats guys. You were all right after two games. Props to all of you.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-20-2009, 10:15 PM
OK. I couldn't care less about your opinion, or the pointless drivel in the post I quoted.

See, it's funny. You said this in the draft forum last April, and yet continually engaged me in discussions even then. It's not an effective refutation. You're just the guy who comes in and acts like he's too cool for the room. It's transparent as fuck, and it's why people think you're a cock goblin.

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2009, 10:16 PM
FWIW, I don't disagree with needing upgrades at all of our LB positions, and hopefully within the next year or two, the whole unit will be replaced. However, it is what it is. What's the point in continually beating this dead horse? Is this one of those "I told you so threads?" If so, congrats guys. You were all right after two games. Props to all of you.

You think that people who felt that Tamba Hali (and the rest of the Chiefs linebacking corp) weren't good needed two games to come to that conclusion?

kcpasco
09-20-2009, 10:16 PM
Like who?

Like me

I'm beginning to think that way

doomy3
09-20-2009, 10:16 PM
I didn't say he wasn't good. I said he wasn't "elite".

If he played on the Chiefs line, I doubt he'd look as good to you.

Who knows? I would sure as hell like to have the chance to find out though. I personally think he is better than Albert, and quite a bit better. And Albert draws a lot of praise here.

doomy3
09-20-2009, 10:17 PM
You think that people who felt that Tamba Hali (and the rest of the Chiefs linebacking corp) weren't good needed two games to come to that conclusion?

No. That's my point. We've read this same shit over and over and over again. We all get it. Carry on though.

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2009, 10:18 PM
Who knows? I would sure as hell like to have the chance to find out though. I personally think he is better than Albert, and quite a bit better. And Albert draws a lot of praise here.

I think Albert drew a lot of praise here last year and rightfully so, IMO.

This year? Not so much. Obviously, you must have missed the preseason threads about the offensive line because people who analyzed their play realized that Albert's certainly taken a step backward from last season.

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2009, 10:18 PM
No. That's my point. We've read this same shit over and over and over again. We all get it. Carry on though.

So what do you suggest?

Should we all just stop talking about the Chiefs?

What would YOU like to discuss, Doomy?

doomy3
09-20-2009, 10:18 PM
See, it's funny. You said this in the draft forum last April, and yet continually engaged me in discussions even then. It's not an effective refutation. You're just the guy who comes in and acts like he's too cool for the room. It's transparent as ****, and it's why people think you're a cock goblin.

Mostly every thread where we have ever had any kind of conversation between us is you attacking me when I have responded to someone else, or a thought process. Take this thread, for example.

milkman
09-20-2009, 10:19 PM
FWIW, I don't disagree with needing upgrades at all of our LB positions, and hopefully within the next year or two, the whole unit will be replaced. However, it is what it is. What's the point in continually beating this dead horse? Is this one of those "I told you so threads?" If so, congrats guys. You were all right after two games. Props to all of you.

I think this thread is the direct result of the Tyson Jackson thread, and mecca's suggestion that someone should start a thread about Tamba Hali, who actually deserved the kind of criticism that was moronically directed at Jackson.

doomy3
09-20-2009, 10:19 PM
So what do you suggest?

Should we all just stop talking about the Chiefs?

What would YOU like to discuss, Doomy?

Could you possibly be more dramatic?

doomy3
09-20-2009, 10:20 PM
I think this thread is the direct result of the Tyson Jackson thread, and mecca's suggestion that someone should start a thread about Tamba Hali, who actually deserved the kind of criticism that was moronically directed at Jackson.

Yeah, I'll agree with that.

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2009, 10:21 PM
Could you possibly be more dramatic?

Could you possibly be more annoying?

I mean, seriously. What's the point to your input on this topic?

That we all discuss this stuff way too often?

Wow, we should have to pay for that kind of insight!

:rolleyes:

TinyEvel
09-20-2009, 10:22 PM
Hali created pressure and got two sacks today (in Madden).

Oh, and Pollard got an interception, and Cottam was my #1 receiver.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-20-2009, 10:25 PM
yeah, i think so....i won't miss any of them, dj included


they have a lot of work to do to turn that position over

it is currently a much bigger problem than NT, where Tank has at least shown an entry level competence at the position

Not to start another holy war, but I just don't understand why we would switch to the 3-4. Even if Pioli wanted to beef up the D-Line at all costs, can you imagine an interior two of Raji and Dorsey? That'd be a Henderson-Stroud type tandem, IMO.

Let's just forsake the OL in the '09 draft, which for all intents and purposes the Chiefs did. Imagine this front seven:

Raji, Dorsey, Hali, Sidbury, DJ, Williams, Mays.

You can bring in Edwards, Tank, and Vrabel to spell on the DL.

That's not a terrible defense if you can get a Carlos Dunlap or Everson Griffin in there, and you still have rounds 3,5,6,7 to address the OL/Offense.

*sigh*

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-20-2009, 10:26 PM
Mostly every thread where we have ever had any kind of conversation between us is you attacking me when I have responded to someone else, or a thought process.

Yeah, that's bullshit.

doomy3
09-20-2009, 10:28 PM
Speaking of guys trying to transition from 4-3 end to 3-4 LB, Elvis Dumervil is tearing shit up in Denver. Today he had 7 tackles, a sack, and a forced fumble against the Browns and manhandled Joe Thomas.

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2009, 10:29 PM
Speaking of guys trying to transition from 4-3 end to 3-4 LB, Elvis Dumervil is tearing shit up in Denver. Today he had 7 tackles, a sack, and a forced fumble against the Browns and manhandled Joe Thomas.

"A" sack?

He had FOUR sacks.

milkman
09-20-2009, 10:29 PM
Speaking of guys trying to transition from 4-3 end to 3-4 LB, Elvis Dumervil is tearing shit up in Denver. Today he had 7 tackles, a sack, and a forced fumble against the Browns and manhandled Joe Thomas.

Yeah, what happened to Joe Thomas?

He was nails his rookie year.

No so much since.

doomy3
09-20-2009, 10:30 PM
"A" sack?

He had FOUR sacks.

Typed it wrong. Was thinking ahead to the fumble, but yeah 4 sacks.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-20-2009, 10:31 PM
Yeah, what happened to Joe Thomas?

He was nails his rookie year.

No so much since.

A lot of LTs seem to struggle in year two. IIRC, I think Roaf struggled a lot in his second year, he may have given up something like 10 sacks.

Of course, maybe some of it is just piss poor coaching, over coaching, or adjusting to their tendencies.

*And yes, I know he's in year three*

:shrug:

DaneMcCloud
09-20-2009, 10:34 PM
A lot of LTs seem to struggle in year two. IIRC, I think Roaf struggled a lot in his second year, he may have given up something like 10 sacks.

Of course, maybe some of it is just piss poor coaching, over coaching, or adjusting to their tendencies.

*And yes, I know he's in year three*

:shrug:

I would think that being forced to play for Eric Mangini would cause any player to regress

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-20-2009, 10:35 PM
I would think that being forced to play for Eric Mangini would cause any player to regress

He came from the Patriots

Syllogism thereby indicates success is inevitable.

doomy3
09-20-2009, 10:36 PM
I would think that being forced to play for Eric Mangini would cause any player to regress

Well, he sucked last year playing for the same guy he did his first year, so I doubt that is the problem.

the Talking Can
09-21-2009, 07:31 AM
Not to start another holy war, but I just don't understand why we would switch to the 3-4. Even if Pioli wanted to beef up the D-Line at all costs, can you imagine an interior two of Raji and Dorsey? That'd be a Henderson-Stroud type tandem, IMO.

Let's just forsake the OL in the '09 draft, which for all intents and purposes the Chiefs did. Imagine this front seven:

Raji, Dorsey, Hali, Sidbury, DJ, Williams, Mays.

You can bring in Edwards, Tank, and Vrabel to spell on the DL.

That's not a terrible defense if you can get a Carlos Dunlap or Everson Griffin in there, and you still have rounds 3,5,6,7 to address the OL/Offense.

*sigh*

look, i hear you

there is an alternative past out there, it very well could be that they've already screwed it all up...i'm just too worn out by the chiefs to worry about it much...I know they have a logic for what they're doing - they aren't idiots - even if it isn't my way, so I'm giving them some time to get it straight on their terms...

they are doing it the hard way and making long term bets, which compels a certain amount of respect from me, but also leaves them no cover if it goes wrong...and also makes it easier in the short term to blast them

i mean running a 3-4 with these LBs is borderline crazy...but that's life until next year...Pioli will have his scouts, Haley will have a year of evaluation, and hopefully we'll spend some money in FA

they have a huge job to do next off season, bigger than this one in some ways...

The Bad Guy
09-21-2009, 08:19 AM
Tamba Hali will never amount to anything other than a situational pass rusher. There are tons of people in the NFL who work hard, but the talent level isn't there.

I'd start with Merriman this off-season. In my eyes, he's a must have. We must have a pass rusher that teams at least fear. I don't care how much of a scumbag he is. We've tried the nice guy player thing.

TheGuardian
09-21-2009, 08:24 AM
Merriman has zero sacks and is dragging that operated leg like it's been bitten by zombies.

Since he lost his deca he's looked average, now with that bad leg he looks less than average.

Tamba had a few pressures yesterday. Our linebackers as a group didn't "do" a whole lot. Tamba had a good game last week. I think if they flip flpped he and Vrabel it'd be better personally.

Chiefnj2
09-21-2009, 08:29 AM
Why is Raji better than Jackson at this point? I didn't watch the Bengals/Packers game yesterday, but I see they put up 31 points and the Packs let Benson run for 150. Raji isn't listed as having any tackles or assists.

TheGuardian
09-21-2009, 08:30 AM
Why is Raji better than Jackson at this point? I didn't watch the Bengals/Packers game yesterday, but I see they put up 31 points and the Packs let Benson run for 150. Raji isn't listed as having any tackles or assists.

He's better because the Chiefs didn't draft him.

Easy 6
09-21-2009, 08:47 AM
My last thought on this...if Tamba doesnt develop into a productive OLB thats still here next year, even as a backup, drag this up & beat me with it...i wont quit my job & start in with meth over it.

I disagree that he cant hack it & atleast be serviceable...we'll see.

The Bad Guy
09-21-2009, 09:14 AM
Merriman has zero sacks and is dragging that operated leg like it's been bitten by zombies.

Since he lost his deca he's looked average, now with that bad leg he looks less than average.

Tamba had a few pressures yesterday. Our linebackers as a group didn't "do" a whole lot. Tamba had a good game last week. I think if they flip flpped he and Vrabel it'd be better personally.

He's going to be 26 next year. Teams still will gameplan for him because of his reputation.

He wasn't going to come back from major surgery and light the world on fire in the first 2 games. I bet by the end of the year, he'll still be in duoble digit sacks.

This team needs a feared pass rusher in the worst way.

wild1
09-21-2009, 09:26 AM
It would probably be best for all involved if Hali was let go after the season and allowed to go somewhere more suited to his playing style. I like the guy and wish him well, but this isn't gonna work.

ferrarispider95
09-21-2009, 11:48 AM
He is not overly fast, but he is not overly strong either to bull rush.

Dave Lane
09-21-2009, 12:21 PM
I'll go ahead and fall on this grenade and take the heat when I'm wrong:

Tamba Hali will never make the Pro-Bowl.

I don't **** around when I go bold.

Wow thats bold. Hey I'll go bold too. Bernard Pollard will never make the Hall of Fame! :)

beach tribe
09-21-2009, 12:57 PM
I still think he can get 7-8 sacks.

Of what? Potatoes?

Christofire
09-21-2009, 01:05 PM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d812c1c91/McFadden-TD-run

Where's Tamba?

Watch the replay of the game-winning TD by McFadden, and you'll see where Tamba's at: Looking for his jock in the middle of the field, where he was COMPLETELY sucked in by the fake, leaving his outside contain totally uncovered. He didn't lose us this game, but those kinds of blown responsibilities will cost him his linebacking job.

I like the 3/4, I like the unpredictability of it, but waiting for the 4/3 guys to transition to it is gonna be painful.

DeezNutz
09-21-2009, 01:55 PM
Wow thats bold. Hey I'll go bold too. Bernard Pollard will never make the Hall of Fame! :)

:clap:

Hope this doesn't come back to bite you, but I know you won't run from it.

milkman
09-21-2009, 04:31 PM
It would probably be best for all involved if Hali was let go after the season and allowed to go somewhere more suited to his playing style. I like the guy and wish him well, but this isn't gonna work.

The UFL?

Mecca
09-21-2009, 07:25 PM
I remember when that guy last year wanted to bet me that he'd get 10 sacks last year...he's not going to get that in 2 seasons combined.

MahiMike
09-21-2009, 07:38 PM
I saw him piling on the QB AFTER he was down so we could get a 15 yd penalty at the end of the game to keep the Raiders alive.

DeezNutz
09-21-2009, 07:39 PM
I'm surprised that one of Hali's most "sensible" supporters hasn't made an appearance in this thread.

Easy 6
09-21-2009, 08:29 PM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d812c1c91/McFadden-TD-run

Where's Tamba?

Watch the replay of the game-winning TD by McFadden, and you'll see where Tamba's at: Looking for his jock in the middle of the field, where he was COMPLETELY sucked in by the fake, leaving his outside contain totally uncovered. He didn't lose us this game, but those kinds of blown responsibilities will cost him his linebacking job.

I like the 3/4, I like the unpredictability of it, but waiting for the 4/3 guys to transition to it is gonna be painful.

Yeah, he looked terrible on that play in particular, totally fooled.

But your last line says a lot, 'waiting for transition'...its impossible for anyone to say that he's had time to do that. Doubters want to say, 'he doesnt have this', 'he doesnt have that'...but he had enough of those to collect a sack last week & apply good pressure a few other times.

'Impact Player', 'Sack Machine', 'Difference Maker'...i cant speak for anyone else, but i certainly didnt expect those things, atleast not right away.

I expected him to be hit & miss the first half of 09, how anyone expected more is beyond me.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program of sneering slams...:doh!:

milkman
09-21-2009, 08:36 PM
Yeah, he looked terrible on that play in particular, totally fooled.

But your last line says a lot, 'waiting for transition'...its impossible for anyone to say that he's had time to do that. Doubters want to say, 'he doesnt have this', 'he doesnt have that'...but he had enough of those to collect a sack last week & apply good pressure a few other times.

'Impact Player', 'Sack Machine', 'Difference Maker'...i cant speak for anyone else, but i certainly didnt expect those things, atleast not right away.

I expected him to be hit & miss the first half of 09, how anyone expected more is beyond me.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program of sneering slams...:doh!:

The issues that many of us are discussing with Hali have very little to do with learning the position.

They have to do with the physical shortcomings that aren't fixable.

He's too slow and too unathletic to compete and succeed.

It won't matter if he has 2 games, 6 games, or 60 games.

Those are not correctable issues.

Chiefless
09-21-2009, 08:44 PM
Yeah, he looked terrible on that play in particular, totally fooled.

But your last line says a lot, 'waiting for transition'...its impossible for anyone to say that he's had time to do that. Doubters want to say, 'he doesnt have this', 'he doesnt have that'...but he had enough of those to collect a sack last week & apply good pressure a few other times.

'Impact Player', 'Sack Machine', 'Difference Maker'...i cant speak for anyone else, but i certainly didnt expect those things, atleast not right away.

I expected him to be hit & miss the first half of 09, how anyone expected more is beyond me.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program of sneering slams...:doh!:

Well, I don't mean to slam the guy...I really don't. But I suppose that's what this will sound like. That play showed a complete and utter lack of football instincts and that play was designed to exploit it IMO. Stuff like that will happen all year to him. If they flop him to the other side the naked boot will be run against him when the opposition has a crucial 3rd and 5-8. I was pulling for the guy but I really don't think he's gonna make it.

Easy 6
09-21-2009, 08:47 PM
The issues that many of us are discussing with Hali have very little to do with learning the position.

They have to do with the physical shortcomings that aren't fixable.

He's too slow and too unathletic to compete and succeed.

It won't matter if he has 2 games, 6 games, or 60 games.

Those are not correctable issues.

MM, i'll have to respectfully disagree about his short area/zone capable quicks & general athleticism...like you, i didnt start closely following football last week...he was a first rounder & graded as such by many teams IIRC.

Heres a friendly wager, if he doesnt have atleast 7 sacks...you can make up the most rickdickulous sig ever & i will use it for 7 months...(former) Scouts Honor.

Chiefless
09-21-2009, 08:50 PM
The issues that many of us are discussing with Hali have very little to do with learning the position.

They have to do with the physical shortcomings that aren't fixable.

He's too slow and too unathletic to compete and succeed.

It won't matter if he has 2 games, 6 games, or 60 games.

Those are not correctable issues.

Yes, this causes him to consistently over persue the ball, which makes him susceptible to mis-direction plays. He is Eric Hicks all over again.

Mecca
09-21-2009, 08:51 PM
The Chiefs took Hali in the first but he was widely considered to be maxed out without top end athletic gifts.

Easy 6
09-21-2009, 09:00 PM
The Chiefs took Hali in the first but he was widely considered to be maxed out without top end athletic gifts.

I remember you saying that after the draft & i will take your word for it, your one of our best draftniks.

I dont think he has elite talents, he's a 'hustle & desire' player...but honestly, was KC the only team that had him valued that high?

'Lunchbucket' guys are appreciated, in certain scenarios, as much as 'upside' players right? depending on what a given coach wants at that position?

Mecca
09-21-2009, 09:02 PM
That's fine and all but he's not the kind of guy who'd you'd look at and think 3-4 rush backer because of his lack of natural athletic talent.

DeezNutz
09-21-2009, 09:02 PM
'Lunchbucket' guys are appreciated, in certain scenarios, as much as 'upside' players right? depending on what a given coach wants at that position?

This can be true, to an extent.

But not when these guys are being played out of position.

milkman
09-21-2009, 09:03 PM
MM, i'll have to respectfully disagree about his short area quicks & general athleticism...like you, i didnt start closely following football last week...he was a first rounder & graded as such by many teams IIRC.

Heres a friendly wager, if he doesnt have atleast 7 sacks...you can make up the most rickdickulous sig ever & i will use it for 7 months...(former) Scouts Honor.

Hali's ability to play the OLB spot isn't simply about sacks, though that is a part of it.

He's going to struggle in run defense, and really struggle with his pass covearge.

he could potentially get 7 sacks because the 34 puts a premium on communication along the O-Line.

Any breakdown in communication by the O-Line could easliy result in a sack from Hali, and it would have very little to do with his ability.

googlegoogle
09-21-2009, 09:14 PM
Does he ever get double teamed?

OnTheWarpath58
09-21-2009, 09:15 PM
Does he ever get double teamed?

ROFL

Why, when a RB or TE can eliminate him on their own?

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-21-2009, 09:17 PM
I remember when that guy last year wanted to bet me that he'd get 10 sacks last year...he's not going to get that in 2 seasons combined.

Hootie's already claimed multiple times that he'll get to double digits this year.

Of course, he also recommended starting the Eagles fantasy D yesterday, due to the inconsistency of the Saints, so...

Mecca
09-21-2009, 09:18 PM
Hootie's already claimed multiple times that he'll get to double digits this year.

Of course, he also recommended starting the Eagles fantasy D yesterday, due to the inconsistency of the Saints, so...

HaHa..I started Mario Manningham so I fared better with my call.

RedThat
09-21-2009, 09:35 PM
Tamba Hali sucks bottomline.

Easy 6
09-21-2009, 09:56 PM
Thats fine, you guys win...if he's the 'complete' washout that you all say, i will admit it & eat a shit sandwich.

But its funny how quickly its forgotten, how well he played in 06...on a piss poor D, made occasionally effective, only by the presence of Jared Allen. Sure, Jared pulled all of the heat...but Tamba was going against the best players a given NFL team could find for the right side...when he made some exciting plays & picked up 8 sacks along the way.

I havent given up on the guy at his new position yet.

But please, carry on.

RedThat
09-21-2009, 10:01 PM
Thats fine, you guys win...if he's the 'complete' washout that you all say, i will admit it & eat a shit sandwich.

But its funny how quickly its forgotten, how well he played in 06...on a piss poor D, made occasionally effective, only by the presence of Jared Allen. Sure, Jared pulled all of the heat...but Tamba was going against the best players a given NFL team could find for the right side...when he made some exciting plays & picked up 8 sacks along the way.

I havent given up on the guy at his new position yet.

But please, carry on.

I give him credit for effort, I have no doubts about him in that regard. I think some of us just have to admit to the fact that he is not good.

Clearly, he is a liability. And will a liability until this team can find someone who is better to replace him.

milkman
09-21-2009, 10:01 PM
Thats fine, you guys win...if he's the 'complete' washout that you all say, i will admit it & eat a shit sandwich.

But its funny how quickly its forgotten, how well he played in 06...on a piss poor D, made occasionally effective, only by the presence of Jared Allen. Sure, Jared pulled all of the heat...but Tamba was going against the best players a given NFL team could find for the right side...when he made some exciting plays & picked up 8 sacks along the way.

I havent given up on the guy at his new position yet.

But please, carry on.

Tamba Hali was playing in the position he should be playing in '06.

As you noted, he does have an initial quick burst, perfect for a LDE against a usually less athletic slower RT.

That quick burst is ineffective without the footspeed to get around the corner on the right side against the LT, however, especially if he's standing up in an OLB position.

That lack of foot speed is exactly the reason he failed so miserably as the RDE.

RedThat
09-21-2009, 10:03 PM
Tamba Hali was playing in the position he should be playing in '06.

As you noted, he does have an initial quick burst, perfect for a LDE against a usually less athletic slower RT.

That quick burst is ineffective without the footspeed to get around the corner on the right side against the LT, however, especially if he's standing up in an OLB position.

That lack of foot speed is exactly the reason he failed so miserably as the RDE.

He is not a fit for this 3-4 defense. Its not gonna work with him. There shouldn't be a place for him on this roster.

O.city
09-21-2009, 10:27 PM
I don't know if you guys actually noticed but......Glen Dorsey played very well Sunday.. He was in the backfield, stopping the run.... He's not a pash rush guy so didn't really look at that but overall he's played well so far this year.

Delano
09-21-2009, 10:28 PM
I don't know if you guys actually noticed but......Glen Dorsey played very well Sunday.. He was in the backfield, stopping the run.... He's not a pash rush guy so didn't really look at that but overall he's played well so far this year.

Nah. If you look, he's on the Herm Edwards Toilet Bowl Memorial Team.

RedThat
09-21-2009, 10:34 PM
I don't know if you guys actually noticed but......Glen Dorsey played very well Sunday.. He was in the backfield, stopping the run.... He's not a pash rush guy so didn't really look at that but overall he's played well so far this year.

He did. He played his best game as a Chief imo. If he could do this on a continuous basis, and improve each week I'd be content with that.

O.city
09-21-2009, 10:35 PM
Seriously how many people on here thought we would hold the Raiders running game under 100 yards? Tank even played well. Overall the defense played really well save the last posession. Run defense atleast. Dunno bout the pass. Russell is....well not good.

OnTheWarpath58
09-21-2009, 10:37 PM
Seriously how many people on here thought we would hold the Raiders running game under 100 yards? Tank even played well. Overall the defense played really well save the last posession. Run defense atleast. Dunno bout the pass. Russell is....well not good.

Not many.

I know I was wrong. The defense can't be blamed for this loss.

However, something has to change regarding the lack of passrush, or the defense will shoulder plenty of blame down the road.

O.city
09-21-2009, 10:42 PM
Yes that is true. You can't only get pressure by the blitz.. leavin the dbacks on islands and you will get burned. I really think Tyson Jackson can be a good pashrusher. not great but good. you get that to happen he starts gettin more bodies thrown his way and you get some one on ones then you have a chance. The guy is a rookie. someone once said Dlinemen need 2-3 years in the league to mature to the speed. guess we will find out.

O.city
09-21-2009, 10:44 PM
I know it hurts to have lost that game especially to the RAiders but there is progress in this team. Gotta crawl before you can walk and the last two years we were....well def. not crawling let alone running. Had some mental errors that cost us the game this week. But if we would have played with the discipline we had in week one we win this game by 10 points or more.

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 10:44 PM
Not many.

I know I was wrong. The defense can't be blamed for this loss.

However, something has to change regarding the lack of passrush, or the defense will shoulder plenty of blame down the road.

The defense can be blamed for this loss.

JaMarcuss Russell was awful. He wasn't awful because the Chiefs defense was awesome, series after series. It was because he fucking sucks ass. If he had even been 15 of 24 instead of 7 of 24, the game wouldn't have been close.

If Tom Cable hadn't called the worst fucking game I've ever seen, this game wouldn't have been close because he would have pounded the Chiefs with the run the entire game.

Lane Kiffen makes Tom Cable look like one of Jerry's Kids.

doomy3
09-21-2009, 10:46 PM
The defense can be blamed for this loss.

JaMarcuss Russell was awful. He wasn't awful because the Chiefs defense was awesome, series after series. It was because he ****ing sucks ass. If he had even been 15 of 24 instead of 7 of 24, the game wouldn't have been close.

If Tom Cable hadn't called the worst ****ing game I've ever seen, this game wouldn't have been close because he would have pounded the Chiefs with the run the entire game.

Lane Kiffen makes Tom Cable look like one of Jerry's Kids.


I'm so glad we have Nostradamus on this board.

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 10:48 PM
I'm so glad we have Nostradamus on this board.

You disagree?

doomy3
09-21-2009, 10:52 PM
You disagree?

There is absolutely NO evidence to support your claim. None.

You are simply making an assumption based on what you thought going into the game. The fact is we held the Raiders to a 2.7 YPC average for 25 carries. If they would have kept pounding the ball, and we would have kept holding them to that average, then it is a moot point. That is entirely possible. Same as your assumption that they would have improved their average and started breaking some long runs. THat is exactly what it is, an assumption. With absolutely no statistical or factual base.

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 10:54 PM
There is absolutely NO evidence to support your claim. None.

You are simply making an assumption based on what you thought going into the game. The fact is we held the Raiders to a 2.7 YPC average for 25 carries. If they would have kept pounding the ball, and we would have kept holding them to that average, then it is a moot point. That is entirely possible. Same as your assumption that they would have improved their average and started breaking some long runs. THat is exactly what it is, an assumption. With absolutely no statistical or factual base.

Really? None?

Last year? Last week?

I think there is plenty of evidence to support the fact that if the Raiders had chosen to constantly run the ball at the Chiefs instead of throwing on first and second down, resulting in punts, that they would have worn the Chiefs out and won by a significant margin.

Not just by three points.

OnTheWarpath58
09-21-2009, 10:57 PM
The defense can be blamed for this loss.

JaMarcuss Russell was awful. He wasn't awful because the Chiefs defense was awesome, series after series. It was because he fucking sucks ass. If he had even been 15 of 24 instead of 7 of 24, the game wouldn't have been close.

If Tom Cable hadn't called the worst fucking game I've ever seen, this game wouldn't have been close because he would have pounded the Chiefs with the run the entire game.

Lane Kiffen makes Tom Cable look like one of Jerry's Kids.

But he did call a shitty game, and the defense stopped the plays he called, until Clancy pissed the bed on the last drive.

Are they worldbeaters? No.

Did they do the things we all said during the week that they needed to do to win?

Absolutely.

Trust me, there will be plenty of weeks to blame the defense coming up.

Sunday wasn't one of them, IMO. (though the lack of passrush is disturbing)

doomy3
09-21-2009, 10:58 PM
Really? None?

Last year? Last week?

I think there is plenty of evidence to support the fact that if the Raiders had chosen to constantly run the ball at the Chiefs instead of throwing on first and second down, resulting in punts, that they would have worn the Chiefs out and won by a significant margin.

Not just by three points.

I'm not going to pretend to know that they would have continued to shut the run down if they would have run it 25 more times. I will leave the wild guesses stated as fact for you to make.

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:06 PM
NO they are not worldbeaters but are they as bad a defense as they showed in week one...no...hopefully not. WHen you look at the defense there is actually talent there. When you are playing against NFL caliber talent you have to have 11 guys knowing what to do and doing it. One breakdown and it's a positive play for the offense. Look at the Ravens D. are all 11 guys pro bowlers? No but they play extremelly well together. the chiefs actually have a decent secondary minus the linebackers. and the d line is improving. they are all so young. again look at the great d's in the league. how long have they been together?

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 11:07 PM
I'm not going to pretend to know that they would have continued to shut the run down if they would have run it 25 more times. I will leave the wild guesses stated as fact for you to make.

Thanks

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 11:08 PM
But he did call a shitty game, and the defense stopped the plays he called, until Clancy pissed the bed on the last drive.

Are they worldbeaters? No.

Did they do the things we all said during the week that they needed to do to win?

Absolutely.

Trust me, there will be plenty of weeks to blame the defense coming up.

Sunday wasn't one of them, IMO. (though the lack of passrush is disturbing)

I guess.

I just couldn't believe what I was seeing on Sunday.

Cable is a paper eating moron.

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:09 PM
Why do you guys think they keep running Russell out there? THink he will ever get better? He tries to throw bullets everywhere he has no touch.

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:11 PM
I guess he just figured we were stopping the run and he had to throw. I dunno. Maybe it was coming from big Al wanting to see that LSU arm rocket it everywhere.

Mecca
09-21-2009, 11:12 PM
So what did we learn the defense is pretty good against a bad team but gets railed by a good one?

Guess we'll find out with the schedule now...

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:15 PM
Yeah could be the case but hopefully not... yeah the schedule i gonna get pretty nasty the next few. but he skins are bad and the eagles with no mcbabb .. and the giants...well ............... and i don't necessarily think the Raiders offense is bad other than Russell.... they have a good run game and that has hurt the chiefs badly in the past. maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel

OnTheWarpath58
09-21-2009, 11:16 PM
I guess.

I just couldn't believe what I was seeing on Sunday.

Cable is a paper eating moron.

Can't argue there.

Mecca
09-21-2009, 11:17 PM
Yeah could be the case but hopefully not... yeah the schedule i gonna get pretty nasty the next few. but he skins are bad and the eagles with no mcbabb .. and the giants...well ............... and i don't necessarily think the Raiders offense is bad other than Russell.... they have a good run game and that has hurt the chiefs badly in the past. maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel

That Giants matchup is nasty.....that's one of those ones if no one gets hurt it'll be a good day.

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 11:18 PM
That Giants matchup is nasty.....that's one of those ones if no one gets hurt it'll be a good day.

Haley seriously had better have more than two QB's active that day.

JFC.

It could get really ugly.

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:19 PM
Yeah...but they are without Tuck maybe so thats a little relief.. I'd shit a golden egg if the chiefs pulled that one off.. What do ya think bout the Cowboys matchup Mecca?

doomy3
09-21-2009, 11:20 PM
So what did we learn the defense is pretty good against a bad team but gets railed by a good one?

Guess we'll find out with the schedule now...

One thing that the first two games tell me is that after two games we have a better defense than the Chargers. Playing against the same exact teams, we have a better defense than the Chargers through two weeks. I think that is a positive. Also a positive is that we had a good gameplan against the Raiders offense, and executed it well.

We are sorely missing a pass rush though, and that will hurt us all year.

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:20 PM
we will def find out how good our run d is that day

Mecca
09-21-2009, 11:20 PM
Yeah...but they are without Tuck maybe so thats a little relief.. I'd shit a golden egg if the chiefs pulled that one off.. What do ya think bout the Cowboys matchup Mecca?

Tuck says he's playing this week...

The Cowboys matchup is bad too...did you see their running game? They also have 2 extremely talented TE's....

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:21 PM
Maybe the good lord will grant one or two of hte chiefs d ends great pashrushin ablity.

doomy3
09-21-2009, 11:21 PM
Haley seriously had better have more than two QB's active that day.

JFC.

It could get really ugly.

However, if it doesn't, I'm sure it will be because of some kind of coaching mistakes from Coughlin, and have nothing to do with what we did positively.

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:22 PM
yeah but i think their d is questionable... and the tight end didn't seem to hurt he chiefs as bad this week maybe we gplanned a little better.

Mecca
09-21-2009, 11:23 PM
yeah but i think their d is questionable... and the tight end didn't seem to hurt he chiefs as bad this week maybe we gplanned a little better.

Nothing in the pass game hurt the Chiefs cause Russell is brutal.

Their D...we don't have the Giants talent nor do we have anyone to block Ware.

If you wanna pick one of those games to win the Eagles don't have McNabb and the Redskins look pretty blah those are better sell jobs than the Giants and Cowboys aside from being road games.

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:24 PM
Wow i thought i heard Tuck was gonna be shut down for a few weeks. man that one could be bad but who knows. the offense actually looked decent even good against a pretty good raiders d. Maybe the chiefs are better than expected. I hope.

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 11:25 PM
However, if it doesn't, I'm sure it will be because of some kind of coaching mistakes from Coughlin, and have nothing to do with what we did positively.

I know you think you're funny and witty but in reality, you're just annoying.

Hope that's working for you.

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:25 PM
Yeah the Gmen do have some talent. Did you see Manninham? damn guy can fly. there was one ball manning threw in the endzone that he absolutely separated from the DB in a hurry.

Mecca
09-21-2009, 11:25 PM
Even if Tuck doesn't play it's not like we have anyone that can handle Osi or Kiwanuka.

Mecca
09-21-2009, 11:26 PM
Yeah the Gmen do have some talent. Did you see Manninham? damn guy can fly. there was one ball manning threw in the endzone that he absolutely separated from the DB in a hurry.

Yea Manningham is on my fantasy team...

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 11:27 PM
Even if Tuck doesn't play it's not like we have anyone that can handle Osi or Kiwanuka.

Or Canty. Or Boley. Or Pierce.

The list is fairly endless.

Oh, and their wide receivers and running backs aren't too shabby, either.

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:28 PM
That was a hellova pick up then.... I dunno why but i'm just not sold on the Cowboys... I think we go away from Ware if all possible... and it is in KC. But who knows. In the NFl anything can happen. Look at the Bengals in GB. But dunno if we are as talented as the Bengals.

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:30 PM
I would venture to say that the Giants are the elite team in the NFC right now... really not a weakness on the team.

Mecca
09-21-2009, 11:30 PM
That was a hellova pick up then.... I dunno why but i'm just not sold on the Cowboys... I think we go away from Ware if all possible... and it is in KC. But who knows. In the NFl anything can happen. Look at the Bengals in GB. But dunno if we are as talented as the Bengals.

For that Cowboys game I have a few words.....Felix Jones speed on the edge...Jason Witten and Martellus Bennett against our LB's in coverage...how do you stop that?

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:30 PM
How did they get so loaded? I haven't looked at anything but was it just thru the draft or what? They have 3 premiere pass rushers. Think they will loan us one?

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-21-2009, 11:31 PM
I would venture to say that the Giants are the elite team in the NFC right now... really not a weakness on the team.

You could make a case that their run D could be a weakness.

doomy3
09-21-2009, 11:32 PM
You could make a case that their run D could be a weakness.

Yep. Dallas completely gashed them anytime they wanted to run. If it wasn't for Romo playing like complete shit, the Cowboys win that game.

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:32 PM
I know the Cowboys are loaded. For some reason i just don't think Romo is the guy. But we will have to get Jones before he gets goin. If don't get a pash rush in the next couple of weeks the qb's we are playing are not Russell the Raider. It could get bad.

Mecca
09-21-2009, 11:33 PM
How did they get so loaded? I haven't looked at anything but was it just thru the draft or what? They have 3 premiere pass rushers. Think they will loan us one?

They drafted most of them, most everyone who's important on the team was a draft pick by them.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-21-2009, 11:33 PM
How did they get so loaded? I haven't looked at anything but was it just thru the draft or what? They have 3 premiere pass rushers. Think they will loan us one?

Almost entirely through the draft, but with some great FA pickups.

Offense:

Manning, Snee, Manningham, Smith, Boss, Jacobs, are all draft picks. Mackenzie was a FA from the Jets.

Defense: Umenyiora was a second, Tuck a 3rd, Canty was a FA, Pierce a FA, Kiwi was a 1st.

They are just excellent at all aspects of talent evaluation.

Mecca
09-21-2009, 11:34 PM
I wasn't surprised the Cowboys ran on the Giants, the Giants have athletic pass rushers on the line and the Cowboys have a line full of gigantic dudes who weigh about 340lbs.

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:34 PM
Yeah their run D is a little suspect. If we could get Larry to run with passion like he flashed sunday we could keep their D on the field for a while. Then hit a little paction pass maybe. Who knows by then. Larry might be in jail.

doomy3
09-21-2009, 11:35 PM
Giants are giving up 325 yards per game and 6.0 yards per play through two weeks.

The Cowboys are giving up 438.5 yards per game and 6.4 yards per play through two weeks. They have the 30th ranked D.

Let's not anoint either of these teams the Super Bowl winner just yet.

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:36 PM
Yeah the Boys running attack was good. I dunno how long Barber is gonna be in the league. Dude runs so hard a brutal.

Mecca
09-21-2009, 11:36 PM
Just look at the Giants moves, guys like Corey Webster in the 2nd, Kenny Phillips at the end of the first.

Just this past year guys like Hakeem Nicks, Will Beatty and Clint Sintim and adding a huge WR in Barden and a guy like Travis Beckum who can do a ton of stuff.

They just draft very well, if Nicks and Beatty pan out they have an awesome WR trio and that's their future LT.

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:37 PM
Yeah and the Cowboys played the Bucs. But it is just two weeks i mean that really doesn't show much.

Mecca
09-21-2009, 11:37 PM
Yeah the Boys running attack was good. I dunno how long Barber is gonna be in the league. Dude runs so hard a brutal.

They only go 18 deep at RB.

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:39 PM
Yeah and hopefully the chiefs can get at the Giants level eventually. The giants are solid everywhere now so they can draft needs and look to the future. The Chiefs were run down so much and drafted poorly that they have to draft for glaring needs. of course some of the draft just boils down to luck.

Mecca
09-21-2009, 11:40 PM
It's very very hard to do with the Giants do, they don't miss on picks and they also have a ton of money to work with being in New York.

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:41 PM
Thats True they are deep in the Rb position. I would just try to make Romo beat me. Chances are he will but take away Witten and see what happens. maybe.

doomy3
09-21-2009, 11:42 PM
It's very very hard to do with the Giants do, they don't miss on picks and they also have a ton of money to work with being in New York.

What do you mean they have a ton of money to work with? The entire NFL works on the same salary cap.

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:43 PM
yeah with that Ny money. You just have to be smart too. which i dunno about previous chiefs regimes. hopefully we will look back on this last two years of drafts in a few years and have a foundation.

Mecca
09-21-2009, 11:43 PM
What do you mean they have a ton of money to work with? The entire NFL works on the same salary cap.

They have luxury box cash teams like the Chiefs don't have because of their market, the Giants turn a ton more money than the Chiefs do so they can give bigger bonuses to work the cap.

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 11:44 PM
What do you mean they have a ton of money to work with? The entire NFL works on the same salary cap.

They may have the same Salary Cap but every team doesn't have the same amount of cash on hand via luxury suites, etc. which turns into signing bonus money.

Do you think it's a coincidence that the Chiefs are below the salary floor?

Is it also a coincidence that the Hunts wanted $250 million in stadium upgrades, while throwing in another $75 million himself?

Mecca
09-21-2009, 11:45 PM
The Giants should get credit they haven't gone Redskins with their money basically their entire core has been drafted by them but they have the money to keep all those guys.

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:46 PM
Yeah but don't we actually have some money to throw around right now?

doomy3
09-21-2009, 11:46 PM
They may have the same Salary Cap but every team doesn't have the same amount of cash on hand (i.e., signing bonus money).

Do you think it's a coincidence that the Chiefs are below the salary floor?

Yeah, I do. I don't think it has to do with Kansas City. I think it has to do with knowing where this team is at and spending "wisely." I don't think Hunt and Haley are going to just go throw a bunch of money at guys when our core clearly isn't ready to compete for a Super Bowl. As that changes through the draft hopefully, I think you'll see us spending more money.

Of course this all becomes moot if something isn't done with the CBA.

Mecca
09-21-2009, 11:47 PM
Yeah but don't we actually have some money to throw around right now?

According to the cap yea but the Chiefs don't throw around a ton of big signing bonuses every year and after the deals they gave Tyson Jackson and Cassel that was probably it on the bonus front this year.

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 11:47 PM
The Giants should get credit they haven't gone Redskins with their money basically their entire core has been drafted by them but they have the money to keep all those guys.

Unlike the Hunts and Dan Snyder, the Mara's a great football family in the same league as the Rooney's.

It's no wonder why both franchises have so many championships.

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:47 PM
yeah Daniel Snyder= not so smart


I'd say Jerry Jones could be approaching that with a few more crazy signings.

Mecca
09-21-2009, 11:48 PM
Yeah, I do. I don't think it has to do with Kansas City. I think it has to do with knowing where this team is at and spending "wisely." I don't think Hunt and Haley are going to just go throw a bunch of money at guys when our core clearly isn't ready to compete for a Super Bowl. As that changes through the draft hopefully, I think you'll see us spending more money.

Of course this all becomes moot if something isn't done with the CBA.

The money I referred to is about signing bonuses, the Giants turn more money than the Chiefs so they can drop huge bonuses every year if they choose and still make money.

It's no coincidence the Chiefs usually sign guys every other year...they don't turn the same kinda cash the Giants do.

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:48 PM
I think the Hunts have been pretty good for the NFL but no where near the two you mentioned.

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 11:49 PM
Yeah, I do. I don't think it has to do with Kansas City. I think it has to do with knowing where this team is at and spending "wisely." I don't think Hunt and Haley are going to just go throw a bunch of money at guys when our core clearly isn't ready to compete for a Super Bowl. As that changes through the draft hopefully, I think you'll see us spending more money.

Of course this all becomes moot if something isn't done with the CBA.

Bullshit.

The Chiefs stadium DOES NOT provide the same or even close to the same amount of income that's afforded to teams like the Giants, Jets, Cowboys, etc.

They just don't have the same cash.

Why do you think people like Jerry Jones wants the CBA to change? He wants LESS of his money to go to teams like the Chiefs and has said so recently in print.

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:49 PM
Who do you see the Chiefs target next year?

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 11:49 PM
I think the Hunts have been pretty good for the NFL but no where near the two you mentioned.

Lamar Hunt was great for the NFL 50 years ago.

In the past 38? Not so much.

doomy3
09-21-2009, 11:50 PM
The money I referred to is about signing bonuses, the Giants turn more money than the Chiefs so they can drop huge bonuses every year if they choose and still make money.

It's no coincidence the Chiefs usually sign guys every other year...they don't turn the same kinda cash the Giants do.

But for the most part, this is not at all how the Giants have operated. Yeah, they gave a lot of money to Canty, and we'll see how that plays out. THey also re-signed Eli to a ton of money, but many teams give QBs huge contracts. Including us.

THe Giants are where they are at due to incredibly smart drafting, and not because they have a ton of money because they're in NY. It is smart personnel moves.

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 11:51 PM
Who do you see the Chiefs target next year?

If it's an uncapped year, probably no one.

Restricted free agents are no longer free after 4 years.

It'll be five years, making it unlikely that anyone with massive talent will be stuck with their current team and current contract for one more year.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-21-2009, 11:51 PM
But for the most part, this is not at all how the Giants have operated. Yeah, they gave a lot of money to Canty, and we'll see how that plays out. THey also re-signed Eli to a ton of money, but many teams give QBs huge contracts. Including us.

THe Giants are where they are at due to incredibly smart drafting, and not because they have a ton of money because they're in NY. It is smart personnel moves.

Of course it's due to smart personnel moves, but they also have a built in fiscal advantage with the cash on hand, which allows them to get more players for the same cap dollars due to how they structure the contracts.

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 11:52 PM
But for the most part, this is not at all how the Giants have operated. Yeah, they gave a lot of money to Canty, and we'll see how that plays out. THey also re-signed Eli to a ton of money, but many teams give QBs huge contracts. Including us.

THe Giants are where they are at due to incredibly smart drafting, and not because they have a ton of money because they're in NY. It is smart personnel moves.

But they also have a shit ton of money available, unlike a team like the Chiefs.

Mecca
09-21-2009, 11:52 PM
But for the most part, this is not at all how the Giants have operated. Yeah, they gave a lot of money to Canty, and we'll see how that plays out. THey also re-signed Eli to a ton of money, but many teams give QBs huge contracts. Including us.

THe Giants are where they are at due to incredibly smart drafting, and not because they have a ton of money because they're in NY. It is smart personnel moves.

Right they've drafted well but they have the cash there to keep all those guys around and go get a FA if they want one.

In a matter of 2 years they gave giant contracts to Eli, Tuck and Canty, it's hard to see the Chiefs doing that because of the cash difference.

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:52 PM
Oh just looked at the schedule forgot Pitt is on there. Talk about a bad one.

doomy3
09-21-2009, 11:52 PM
Bullshit.

The Chiefs stadium DOES NOT provide the same or even close to the same amount of income that's afforded to teams like the Giants, Jets, Cowboys, etc.

They just don't have the same cash.

Why do you think people like Jerry Jones wants the CBA to change? He wants LESS of his money to go to teams like the Chiefs and has said so recently in print.

I'm not arguing who is more profitable. I am simply stating that they all operate under the same salary cap and rules for operating under it. This isn't MLB.

I'm not sure why you would infer that don't understand about large market teams and the CBA. Maybe you missed the part where I said "this all becomes moot if something can't get done with the CBA."

Mecca
09-21-2009, 11:53 PM
Let's put it this way, the Giants cash advantage means they can structure contracts to barely lose anyone even if they have a shitload of good players.

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:54 PM
Yeah but I think the Chiefs are just a few players away from being more atleast competitive , atleast in the AFC west as the Chargers are probably on the downfall at least a little.

doomy3
09-21-2009, 11:54 PM
Right they've drafted well but they have the cash there to keep all those guys around and go get a FA if they want one.

In a matter of 2 years they gave giant contracts to Eli, Tuck and Canty, it's hard to see the Chiefs doing that because of the cash difference.

We just gave Cassel a huge contract. I expect us to do the same for Bowe soon, probably next year. And, by all accounts we were trying to throw large money at Haynesworth this past offseason.

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:55 PM
I'll put it this way who would you guys like to see in the red and gold?

Mecca
09-21-2009, 11:55 PM
The Chiefs are 3 players away.....provided those players are John Elway, Lawrence Taylor and Barry Sanders.

DaneMcCloud
09-21-2009, 11:55 PM
We just gave Cassel a huge contract. I expect us to do the same for Bowe soon, probably next year. And, by all accounts we were trying to throw large money at Haynesworth this past offseason.

It's not that huge.

The Chiefs could easily get out of it next year.

Mecca
09-21-2009, 11:55 PM
We just gave Cassel a huge contract. I expect us to do the same for Bowe soon, probably next year. And, by all accounts we were trying to throw large money at Haynesworth this past offseason.

Eli's contract is alot bigger than Cassel's isn't it?

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:56 PM
LOL good one Mecca and maybe a couple Predators at Safety.

O.city
09-21-2009, 11:57 PM
That would have been big had we brought Haynesworth in at the NT.

doomy3
09-22-2009, 12:00 AM
Eli's contract is alot bigger than Cassel's isn't it?

Well yes, of course it is. Eli is a much more established QB who has won a SB for that team. But, for a free agent signing, we gave a lot of money to a QB this offseason.

DaneMcCloud
09-22-2009, 12:00 AM
LOL good one Mecca and maybe a couple Predators at Safety.

At safety?

Hell, we have one at defensive end!

ChiefsCountry
09-22-2009, 12:02 AM
The current NFL CBA is structured where teams get to keep all of their suite and club seating for themselves. They have to split ticket sales 60/40, home team with 60 visitors get 40.

The Chiefs and Lamar lost their advantage money wise when his daddy died in the mid 70's. That and his brothers about going broke in the silver market. The family lost a ton of cash that could have been very benefical to the team now. Its really no secert, it kind of gets swept under in the history books - but the teams that did the best in the AFL had the richest owners, Chiefs, Oilers, and Bills.

DaneMcCloud
09-22-2009, 12:02 AM
The current NFL CBA is structured where teams get to keep all of their suite and club seating for themselves. They have to split ticket sales 60/40, home team with 60 visitors get 40.

The Chiefs and Lamar lost their advantage money wise when his daddy died in the mid 70's. That and his brothers about going broke in the silver market. The family lost a ton of cash that could have been very benefical to the team now. Its really no secert, it kind of gets swept under in the history books - but the teams that did the best in the AFL had the richest owners, Chiefs, Oilers, and Bills.

It's great to have you back!

O.city
09-22-2009, 12:03 AM
I'm kinda feelin that Brandon Spikes would look good as a chief? Or maybe Berry and Mays? trade up.

DaneMcCloud
09-22-2009, 12:04 AM
I'm kinda feelin that Brandon Spikes would look good as a chief? Or maybe Berry and Mays? trade up.

Trade up?

Trade up?

How can you trade up when you're drafting number 1?

Mecca
09-22-2009, 12:04 AM
Trade up?

The Chiefs are going to have a top 5 pick...

doomy3
09-22-2009, 12:09 AM
The current NFL CBA is structured where teams get to keep all of their suite and club seating for themselves. They have to split ticket sales 60/40, home team with 60 visitors get 40.

The Chiefs and Lamar lost their advantage money wise when his daddy died in the mid 70's. That and his brothers about going broke in the silver market. The family lost a ton of cash that could have been very benefical to the team now. Its really no secert, it kind of gets swept under in the history books - but the teams that did the best in the AFL had the richest owners, Chiefs, Oilers, and Bills.

Good to see you posting.

DeezNutz
09-22-2009, 12:12 AM
The current NFL CBA is structured where teams get to keep all of their suite and club seating for themselves. They have to split ticket sales 60/40, home team with 60 visitors get 40.

The Chiefs and Lamar lost their advantage money wise when his daddy died in the mid 70's. That and his brothers about going broke in the silver market. The family lost a ton of cash that could have been very benefical to the team now. Its really no secert, it kind of gets swept under in the history books - but the teams that did the best in the AFL had the richest owners, Chiefs, Oilers, and Bills.

:toast:

DeezNutz
09-22-2009, 12:13 AM
Trade up?

Trade up?

How can you trade up when you're drafting number 1?

I hope not.

#1? And do what with it?

Saccopoo
09-22-2009, 12:14 AM
Not to start another holy war, but I just don't understand why we would switch to the 3-4. Even if Pioli wanted to beef up the D-Line at all costs, can you imagine an interior two of Raji and Dorsey? That'd be a Henderson-Stroud type tandem, IMO.

Yeah, if you cut off Henderson and Stroud at the knees. They would be the Mini Me equivalent of those two.

http://www.pictures-of-cats.org/images/munchkin-dwarf-cat-1.jpg

http://www.diver.pt/loja/images/MUNCHKIN.jpg

http://goremasternews.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/munchkins.jpg

(And I do like Dunlap...shhhh...don't let Mecca hear that though...I think that they guy is good enough to be a dominant player regardless of what type of D-line alignment he's in be it a 3-4 or 4-3.)

DaneMcCloud
09-22-2009, 12:16 AM
I'm not arguing who is more profitable. I am simply stating that they all operate under the same salary cap and rules for operating under it. This isn't MLB.

I'm not sure why you would infer that don't understand about large market teams and the CBA. Maybe you missed the part where I said "this all becomes moot if something can't get done with the CBA."

JFC.

No, they don't.

The whole idea of signing bonuses essentially killed the salary cap from day one.

Why do you think guys like Haynesworth are getting $100 million dollar deals while the 'Skins are under the salary cap?

Up Front Money.

It's all about luxury boxes and stadium revenues, which are NOT a part of league revenue sharing. The teams with higher ticket prices, hundreds of suites and so on get to keep that money for their own use.

You didn't know that?

Seriously?

LMAO

DaneMcCloud
09-22-2009, 12:17 AM
I hope not.

#1? And do what with it?

Yeah Man, all the stat whores will be chanting "We're #1. We're #1".

There will be many people happy.

Saccopoo
09-22-2009, 12:18 AM
Personally, I want to know how the positional draft guys are going to justify Berry or Mays with a top five pick. You know, the same guys who said you couldn't draft Curry, no matter how good he might be, with that pick because he was a strongside LB, not a pass rusher.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-22-2009, 12:19 AM
Personally, I want to know how the positional draft guys are going to justify Berry or Mays with a top five pick. You know, the same guys who said you couldn't draft Curry, no matter how good he might be, with that pick because he was a strongside LB, not a pass rusher.

Because Curry wasn't an elite, special talent at his position. He wasn't Patrick Willis. He wasn't Derrick Brooks.

Rare players supercede positional value. Guys like Sean Taylor, Barry Sanders, Deion, Adrian Peterson, etc.

DaneMcCloud
09-22-2009, 12:19 AM
Personally, I want to know how the positional draft guys are going to justify Berry or Mays with a top five pick. You know, the same guys who said you couldn't draft Curry, no matter how good he might be, with that pick because he was a strongside LB, not a pass rusher.

Unless either one of these guys are Sean Taylor, minus the bullets, Top 5 is way too high, IMO.

Mecca
09-22-2009, 12:20 AM
Eric Berry and Taylor Mays are better prospects than Aaron Curry.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-22-2009, 12:21 AM
JFC.

No, they don't.

The whole idea of signing bonuses essentially killed the salary cap from day one.

Why do you think guys like Haynesworth are getting $100 million dollar deals while the 'Skins are under the salary cap?

Up Front Money.

It's all about luxury boxes and stadium revenues, which are NOT a part of league revenue sharing. The teams with higher ticket prices, hundreds of suites and so on get to keep that money for their own use.

You didn't know that?

Seriously?

LMAO

This happens often. doomy acts too cool for the room, and then gets caught with his dick in the pickle slicer.

DaneMcCloud
09-22-2009, 12:22 AM
This happens often. doomy acts too cool for the room, and then gets caught with his dick in the pickle slicer.

I'd imagine that at this point, that blade is becoming dull

doomy3
09-22-2009, 12:24 AM
JFC.

No, they don't.

The whole idea of signing bonuses essentially killed the salary cap from day one.

Why do you think guys like Haynesworth are getting $100 million dollar deals while the 'Skins are under the salary cap?

Up Front Money.

It's all about luxury boxes and stadium revenues, which are NOT a part of league revenue sharing. The teams with higher ticket prices, hundreds of suites and so on get to keep that money for their own use.

You didn't know that?

Seriously?

LMAO


No, I do get this. Those bonuses do go against the cap though, they are just spread out over the course of the contract. I know that teams can circumvent the salary cap by restructuring contracts, etc. It's not only big market teams that do this though. Arizona has restructured several contracts this year for instance.

Mecca
09-22-2009, 12:25 AM
Doomy.......question, I was wondering..

Did pick you pick up Manningham last week like I suggested in your trade thread?

doomy3
09-22-2009, 12:25 AM
This happens often. doomy acts too cool for the room, and then gets caught with his dick in the pickle slicer.

Seriously dude? What's your problem? I am simply having a conversation in this thread, and I don't see why you feel it necessary to come in and do a drive by shot at me at every opportunity.

doomy3
09-22-2009, 12:26 AM
Doomy.......question, I was wondering..

Did pick you pick up Manningham last week like I suggested in your trade thread?

Yeah, I had already picked him up in one league, but picked him up in that league you were talking about for Nicks. Dude had a monster game too, unfortunately was on my bench behind Roddy White and Cotchery.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-22-2009, 12:27 AM
Seriously dude? What's your problem? I am simply having a conversation in this thread, and I don't see why you feel it necessary to come in and do a drive by shot at me at every opportunity.

You're a great American. This country owes you a huge debt.
















NOW SHUT THE FUCK UP, AND LET ME DO MY JOB!!

DaneMcCloud
09-22-2009, 12:27 AM
No, I do get this. Those bonuses do go against the cap though, they are just spread out over the course of the contract. I know that teams can circumvent the salary cap by restructuring contracts, etc. It's not only big market teams that do this though. Arizona has restructured several contracts this year for instance.

Yeah but the deal is that teams that have huge fan bases that are willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars (if not hundreds of thousands) on suites are going to have an enormous amount of cash on hand for signing bonuses, not just restructures.

I've seen people on Chiefsplanet continually bitch about the "Wine and Cheese Crowd", yet without these people filling the stadium and luxury boxes, the Chiefs will have a horrible on-field product.

Oh.

Oooppps.

Mecca
09-22-2009, 12:28 AM
The teams in the huge markets have an advantage with the money they make. That's why there is a CBA problem the owners can't agree.

doomy3
09-22-2009, 12:30 AM
Yeah but the deal is that teams that have huge fan bases that are willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars (if not hundreds of thousands) on suites are going to have an enormous amount of cash on hand for signing bonuses, not just restructures.

I've seen people on Chiefsplanet continually bitch about the "Wine and Cheese Crowd", yet without these people filling the stadium and luxury boxes, the Chiefs will have a horrible on-field product.

Oh.

Oooppps.

I just really don't see the dominance from the large market teams in the NFL like I do in MLB. It seems like it is pretty even and not like teams in NY are far and away outspending teams in smaller markets in the MLB.

doomy3
09-22-2009, 12:30 AM
The teams in the huge markets have an advantage with the money they make. That's why there is a CBA problem the owners can't agree.

But I thought the main problem on the owners side with the CBA is more on the large market owners. Aren't those the guys that want the change so they can spend more of that money instead of sharing it?

Mecca
09-22-2009, 12:33 AM
But I thought the main problem on the owners side with the CBA is more on the large market owners. Aren't those the guys that want the change so they can spend more of that money instead of sharing it?

It's a mix the small market owners don't like it either because they see the cap getting higher and it's creating have and have nots within the cap. Basically the smaller market owners want the luxury box/suit money to be shared too and the big market owners are telling them to fuck off.

Here's where the advantage is..if I turn 80 million and you turn 40 million, I can circumvent the cap by giving out more money in bonuses than you turn and still make a profit.

Saccopoo
09-22-2009, 12:33 AM
Because Curry wasn't an elite, special talent at his position. He wasn't Patrick Willis. He wasn't Derrick Brooks.

Rare players supercede positional value. Guys like Sean Taylor, Barry Sanders, Deion, Adrian Peterson, etc.

I beg to differ. I remember watching Charlie Casserly state that he was the best linebacking prospect that he has seen in the past ten years hands down. Someone else (can't remember who) in the business stated that he was a bigger, faster version of Pat Willis (who I liked a ton and wished the Chiefs drafted). There were a lot of guys who were full on the Curry bandwagon. Guys who were in the business of evaluating players.

And I remember people around here stating that they wouldn't take Adrian Peterson for a number of reasons.

(And I'm not a positional guy. I'd be estatic if the Chiefs actually took a guy like Berry, Mays, Dunlap or Spikes. I just think it's a bit hypocritical to bag on Curry as a top ten guy because he played the strongside backer position in college, but polish up Mays or Berry when they play safety. I mean, seriously. Safety. In terms of positional picking, that's about as low as you can go on the totem pole.)

DaneMcCloud
09-22-2009, 12:34 AM
I just really don't see the dominance from the large market teams in the NFL like I do in MLB. It seems like it is pretty even and not like teams in NY are far and away outspending teams in smaller markets in the MLB.

Dude, come on.

The Patriots. Three Super Bowls. Philly. Atlanta. The Giants. Need I go on?

There's a real problem in Pittsburgh. They just don't have the cash, which is why their offensive line and running backs suck. The Rooney's have been contemplating selling the team, which would be bad for the NFL but good (maybe) for the Steelers.

It's all about money. And Jerry Jones is INTENT on making it a HUGE issue and has called-out Kansas City specifically in interviews.

The same thing happened in MLB, too. I detailed Steinbrenner's unhappiness with the Royals before and now they've spent $70 million as opposed to $30 million.

Small market subsidies piss these guys OFF.

Mecca
09-22-2009, 12:34 AM
Yea Charlie Casserly also thought Troy Williamson was a great WR prospect.

Mecca
09-22-2009, 12:35 AM
Jerry Jones basically made fun of Minnesota for being to cheap to pay for their stadium.

doomy3
09-22-2009, 12:35 AM
It's a mix the small market owners don't like it either because they see the cap getting higher and it's creating have and have nots within the cap. Basically the smaller market owners want the luxury box/suit money to be shared too and the big market owners are telling them to **** off.

Here's where the advantage is..if I turn 80 million and you turn 40 million, I can circumvent the cap by giving out more money in bonuses than you turn and still make a profit.

Is that last part really happening all that often though? I mean, are there a lot of teams doing that because of the suites? I realize a lot of teams pay the huge backloaded contracts with the big signing bonuses, but it certainly doesn't seem exclusive to just large market teams. Seems like everyone does this.

Saccopoo
09-22-2009, 12:36 AM
Yea Charlie Casserly also thought Troy Williamson was a great WR prospect.

Conversely, weren't you a big Mike Williams proponent?

Mecca
09-22-2009, 12:37 AM
Is that last part really happening all that often though? I mean, are there a lot of teams doing that because of the suites? I realize a lot of teams pay the huge backloaded contracts with the big signing bonuses, but it certainly doesn't seem exclusive to just large market teams. Seems like everyone does this.

The Giants are doing it..Cowboys, Redskins, several others do it too, NE does it.

All teams give out bonuses but the idea is the big market teams can do it more because they have more money. Basically the Chiefs give Cassel and Jackson their money and have nothing left.

A team like the Giants could pay them and 5 more guys.

Mecca
09-22-2009, 12:37 AM
Conversely, weren't you a big Mike Williams proponent?

Ha no, I said I thought he was to slow, I don't like big slow WR's.

doomy3
09-22-2009, 12:39 AM
Dude, come on.

The Patriots. Three Super Bowls. Philly. Atlanta. The Giants. Need I go on?

There's a real problem in Pittsburgh. They just don't have the cash, which is why their offensive line and running backs suck. The Rooney's have been contemplating selling the team, which would be bad for the NFL but good (maybe) for the Steelers.

It's all about money. And Jerry Jones is INTENT on making it a HUGE issue and has called-out Kansas City specifically in interviews.

The same thing happened in MLB, too. I detailed Steinbrenner's unhappiness with the Royals before and now they've spent $70 million as opposed to $30 million.

Small market subsidies piss these guys OFF.


I get all that, but I do think it is a much more even playing field than most sports. I hadn't heard about Rooney considering selling the team though, that's the first I've heard about that.

Admittedly, I am not as versed in the salary cap/CBA as I could be. That's why I am asking questions and engaging in this discussion.

So, you and Hamas can take more shots at me if that makes you feel better, but this has been informative. I wasn't exactly sure how the suite money worked. I knew teams with suites had an advantage, but wasn't sure exactly what it was.

Mecca
09-22-2009, 12:41 AM
Look at teams like the Steelers, Bills or Jacksonville or even the Chiefs then compare those moves to teams like the Cowboys, Giants, Jets, Pats.

You'll see a stark difference in how active the teams are in FA and how much money is going out.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-22-2009, 12:41 AM
I beg to differ. I remember watching Charlie Casserly state that he was the best linebacking prospect that he has seen in the past ten years hands down. Someone else (can't remember who) in the business stated that he was a bigger, faster version of Pat Willis (who I liked a ton and wished the Chiefs drafted). There were a lot of guys who were full on the Curry bandwagon. Guys who were in the business of evaluating players.

And I remember people around here stating that they wouldn't take Adrian Peterson for a number of reasons.

(And I'm not a positional guy. I'd be estatic if the Chiefs actually took a guy like Berry, Mays, Dunlap or Spikes. I just think it's a bit hypocritical to bag on Curry as a top ten guy because he played the strongside backer position in college, but polish up Mays or Berry when they play safety. I mean, seriously. Safety. In terms of positional picking, that's about as low as you can go on the totem pole.)

Top ten isn't top 5, FWIW, and Curry wasn't good enough to supercede the dent that his position has on his value. And Safety is more important that any of the LB positions in a pass happy league.

DaneMcCloud
09-22-2009, 12:41 AM
I get all that, but I do think it is a much more even playing field than most sports. I hadn't heard about Rooney considering selling the team though, that's the first I've heard about that.

Admittedly, I am not as versed in the salary cap/CBA as I could be. That's why I am asking questions and engaging in this discussion.

So, you and Hamas can take more shots at me if that makes you feel better, but this has been informative. I wasn't exactly sure how the suite money worked. I knew teams with suites had an advantage, but wasn't sure exactly what it was.

Dude, did I take a shot during this conversation? All I asked was if you were aware of this practice.

As for the rest, it's the "Dirty Little Secret" of the NFL.

doomy3
09-22-2009, 12:43 AM
The Giants are doing it..Cowboys, Redskins, several others do it too, NE does it.

All teams give out bonuses but the idea is the big market teams can do it more because they have more money. Basically the Chiefs give Cassel and Jackson their money and have nothing left.

A team like the Giants could pay them and 5 more guys.

So do you see us having money to re-sign guys like Flowers, Bowe, Albert?

My thinking was that we weren't re-signing guys because we had shit talent that were young enough to be a core. With those guys, I would have to assume we would pay large bonuses even though we aren't a large market team. Am I correct in assuming that will probably happen?

My point is, of course the Giants are spending more money. They have drafted much better players the last several years that cost a hell of a lot more to lock up. If the Chiefs would have drafted Manning, Tuck, Kiwi, Osi, etc, you don't think we would have given them big money to lock them up?

ChiefsCountry
09-22-2009, 12:44 AM
Wait till next year when the Giants move out of Arrowhead East to their new digs. They will have even more cash. The NFL tv deal pays the players salaries, the siging bonuses are paid out by the team's cash flow which is the advertising, suites, parking, and club seating.

doomy3
09-22-2009, 12:45 AM
Dude, did I take a shot during this conversation? All I asked was if you were aware of this practice.

As for the rest, it's the "Dirty Little Secret" of the NFL.

Yeah, I would consider this exchange a shot:

I'd imagine that at this point, that blade is becoming dull

It's cool though. It's not like I don't expect it. I do appreciate you explaining parts of this to me though.

Mecca
09-22-2009, 12:45 AM
No I don't think the Chiefs would keep all of them much like the Steelers and Colts have walked away from a ton of players they'd have to choose.

It would also depend how close they are FA's to each other, if the Chiefs have all 3 of them come free in the same year and they all expect huge signing bonuses someone won't be back.

'Hamas' Jenkins
09-22-2009, 12:45 AM
I get all that, but I do think it is a much more even playing field than most sports. I hadn't heard about Rooney considering selling the team though, that's the first I've heard about that.

Admittedly, I am not as versed in the salary cap/CBA as I could be. That's why I am asking questions and engaging in this discussion.

So, you and Hamas can take more shots at me if that makes you feel better, but this has been informative. I wasn't exactly sure how the suite money worked. I knew teams with suites had an advantage, but wasn't sure exactly what it was.

The NFL has always been far more like the NBA than MLB, but even so, there are gross inequities in the cash flow of the owners.

The Hunts pissed away huge portions of their fortune. They still make oodles off the Chiefs, and every NFL team makes money (unlike MLB or the NBA) due to the TV deal, but small market owners are always more judicious with their spending.

doomy3
09-22-2009, 12:46 AM
Wait till next year when the Giants move out of Arrowhead East to their new digs. They will have even more cash. The NFL tv deal pays the players salaries, the siging bonuses are paid out by the team's cash flow which is the advertising, suites, parking, and club seating.

I just hope something can get done on the CBA. Uncapped football is going to be hell on us.

Mecca
09-22-2009, 12:48 AM
I just hope something can get done on the CBA. Uncapped football is going to be hell on us.

The cap like it is now is hell unless you don't miss on draft picks because you have to consistently walk away from players.

For example, the Steelers draft well, the Giants draft well....the Steelers always walk away the Giants keep all their guys, the market size is why.

doomy3
09-22-2009, 12:50 AM
The NFL has always been far more like the NBA than MLB, but even so, there are gross inequities in the cash flow of the owners.

The Hunts pissed away huge portions of their fortune. They still make oodles off the Chiefs, and every NFL team makes money (unlike MLB or the NBA) due to the TV deal, but small market owners are always more judicious with their spending.

I know that owners in the big cities make considerably more than owners in small cities. I guess my point was that I have never thought that small market teams had to walk away from guys like small market teams in MLB do. Seems that it is much more of an even playing field when it comes to the FA market, re-signing your own players, etc. You don't see things like CC Sabathia, Texiara, Johan Santana in the NFL where they come up with a smaller team who doesn't have any kind of chance and basically doesn't even attempt to re-sign them.

doomy3
09-22-2009, 12:51 AM
The cap like it is now is hell unless you don't miss on draft picks because you have to consistently walk away from players.

For example, the Steelers draft well, the Giants draft well....the Steelers always walk away the Giants keep all their guys, the market size is why.

Who have the Steelers walked away from because of money?

ChiefsCountry
09-22-2009, 12:52 AM
Another thing that hurts the Chiefs is Clark's personal wealth. Its no where close to alot of the owners at all. Its not like the Bengals or Cardinals, where the family's whole wealth is the football team but its not far behind.

Mecca
09-22-2009, 12:53 AM
Who have the Steelers walked away from because of money?

There's a giant list, here I'll start..

Every LB that has ever played for them, Plaxico Burress.

DaneMcCloud
09-22-2009, 12:55 AM
Who have the Steelers walked away from because of money?

Plaxico Burress, for starters.

Joey Porter and his 17+ sacks ring a bell?

The list is endless, all the way back to Barry Foster and Neil O'Donnell.

Alan Faneca.